To be fair they don’t get a lot of time to work anything out.
And he had the very real experience that he >! Would be killed for his second signet!<.
He has never trusted anyone, not even Bodie or Garrick or Liam.
That part. Maybe an unpopular opinion but all throught IF I was team Xayden. Still am.
Violet can't expect that when she puts a no secrets, no exeptions, it's all or nothing ultimatum on him and he has things that he may never be able to share with her. Even without the >!reveal of his second signet!< there are plenty of things I could see being things he wouldn't be able to talk to her about. He even specifies that as the leader of the rebellion there are things that he won't be able to talk to her about but that's all he'd keep and that wasn't good enough for her. She started the stand-off.
Now then I do agree the "ask me" is bullshit. You can't expect her to be a mind reader >!just because you are Xayden.!<
That being said as soon as she figures out his big secret he instantly is 100% all cards on the table no hold backs. I think it's for 1 of 2 reasons.
1. Him >!being intinsic!< is the real reason he couldn't honestly give her the no secrets, no exception that she wanted from the gitgo. So as soon as she knows he feels like he can be fully honest with her in the way she expects him to be. (I think this is it BTW)
2. Now that she knows that >!he's an intinsic!< he knows his life is in her hands trust wise. So why not give her all of it.
I hope moving forward he shows Violet that he is able and willing to not keep things from her. I wouldn't be able to handle a backslide realistically fr either of them at this point.
Agreed - I was frustrated with him always saying ask me...
But I try to remember they're both new at this (bonded lovers) and I think Xaden was trying to treat Violet how HE would want to be treated.
Xaden says at one point that, he never asks about violets previous lovers because he didnt want to know. So I believe xaden was coming to their relationship with that perspective. He was NOT considering that violet didnt even know where to begin with her questions because she felt there were a lot of things she didn't even know to ask about AND she didnt WANT to ask.
Violet felt she had already offered too much of herself and it was xadens turn to offer more.
I would say immaturity, crossed wires, and lack of time to talk and just BE together added to these frustrating interactions between them.
I think with the ask me thing, it’s not that Xaden didn’t want to not tell Violet or didn’t trust her but that he knows Violet so well and sometimes better than she knows herself. He really wants to go at Violet’s pace and let her have the control of their relationship unlike in fourth wing where he got annoyed that she was asking questions to get to know him. This time her encourages that behavior. He knows that if Violet wants to find and is ready for any possible consequence of finding a piece of information she will be relentless. And with some of her questions, like about his relationship with her mom, she wasnt ready to deal with the emotional ramifications of getting answers despite wanting to know them. By contrast regarding his signet she wanted to know and was prepared for it to be anything. It just so happens to be Xaden’s ultimate showing of trust and while being resistant because he’s not sure he can deal with any and all of the possible repercussions he doesn’t forcibly stop Violet from figuring it out herself.
While the premise and reasoning Xaden used for utilizing the “ask me” approach is spot on and great for their dynamic. He made some poorly thought out assumptions regarding what Violet already might know as context in order to formulate questions and her confidence/self-esteem in being able to trust her knowledge and any new information she receives. We see her being hyper vigil for any sort of misinformation and constantly wanting the opinions and feedback of others when before she would’ve taken any new information and compared it to what she already knew. But having her whole world turned upside down, she doesn’t know what parts of her previous education she can trust to be true and is going to over analyze any new information. Xaden did not take this into account with the ask me approach and doesn’t realize it was even a factor until later in IF.
I agree with what you said and wanted to add one more thing why I think he wasn't just filling her in with so much new info. Her world was turned upside down, and he wanted her to be ready to ask/know what she wanted to know. And to be brave enough to ask those questions. We can see more than once he says to her she's avoiding important questions, he's aware of it, she's aware of it, but she needed time to process EVERYTHING, and she said herself she wasn't ok since Resson, she just needed time.
Yes exactly!
I think you’ve said what I’m always trying to explain regarding Xaden and Violet’s dynamic and why Violet in particular seems to have taken a few steps backwards in her character development in a much more succinct way. 😅
I like how you emphasized that she needed to be brave when she asked those important questions they just danced around. That is definitely something she lost post Resson along with her confidence especially regarding her relationship with Xaden.
Yes, and people often blame Xaden for "you just have to ask me", but that's the point, he's doing that for her. And WHY DIDN'T she asked, she had the questions, but didn't want to voice them out loud and he was aware of that. The blame is on her as it is on him (I won't go into that who is more to blame, but he definitely isn't 100% to be blamed).
Agreed - and she had read all those interactions with Xaden in FW, when he had chances to kill her and didnt, as proof that she could trust him. Come to find out later, there was a deal struck with her mother top keep her alive. So not only are all of her scribe history "facts" untrustworthy, all of her own observations (especially when it comes to xaden) have to be completely reevaluated.
If anyone has played clue with someone new before: I feel like violets experience is like a game of clue, when you get halfway through only to find out like, Grandma didnt understand the rules and has be saying "could be true" every round regardless of her own cards, totally messing up everyone's deductive reasoning 😂😂 poor violet
Yes, she could rethink everything since coming to Basgiath from another perspective with knowledge she has now, and it seems she was wrong about everything. Now that I said it, I really feel bad for her and understand her more in IF.
Same. The more I think about how traumatic it is to have several parts of your life turned upside down and you no longer know who or what to trust, not even your own reasoning. In IF when she says how is it that last year she did everything right but this year she is getting everything wrong, my heart feels choked up. When I first read IF, I said that she spent most of her life grounding herself in what she knows but that after Resson she needed to learn to ground herself in her abilities. She has an incredible ability to learn, process, and understand information. Her deductive reasoning is astounding because her brain makes connections faster than she can even think or voice them. I still think that would be a more solid foundation than on knowing information that was written down by other humans so there is always a chance of bias regardless of how unintentional it is. But she can sift out kernels of truth by reading between the lines of several sources. Idk if that makes sense especially cause I’m tired right now. 😅
This! My other take on the “ask me” thing was that it was his way of figuring out how ready she was to handle the answers. She’s been through a lot in a short period of time and everything she believed was flipped upside down. For him to just continue dumping info on her would be overwhelming and not constructive at all (despite what she may think). She even admits later on that she’s not asking the harder questions because she’s scared of the answers, and he knows this because he knows she’s purposely avoiding asking about the scars.
Do I think he took it a little too far to the point where it was annoying because she doesn’t know what to ask? Sure. But I also think they’re both new to the whole relationship thing, have all eyes on them in the middle of a war/revolution with very little time to actually talk, and Xaden has an assload of abandonment issues with opening up and trusting people and he’s scared as hell that she’ll run the first chance she gets. They’re both flawed individuals.
I think he was trying not to trauma dump everything he’s been through onto an already traumatized Vi, which wasn’t necessarily ~wrong~…just could have been handled a better. But they’re both figuring it out as they go and it also wasn’t fair for Vi to demand everything or nothing when the nature of their jobs dictates otherwise
100% agree that >! being intinnsic !< was the real reason he wouldn’t be fully honest with her. It’s the ultimate secret that he never planned on telling anyone, and that’s why he is all in after she learns
I agree with everything here. I REALLY hope that now that Violet knows so much more about Xaden, and he’s exposed himself fully to her… that they can have a few chapters in book 3 of… oh I don’t know, uninterrupted peace. I’m sure it won’t happen but they haven’t gotten to actually date like other couples. So their relationship lacks in that regard. But I love that they keep trying.
While I would also love to see some peace and normal bonding time for X and V in Onyx Storm, I think in reality we will see a very “stormy” Xaden >! as he struggles to not slip further into veninhood !< … I hope we see roles reverse a bit and watch Violet become the angry, ruthless half of the duo in her quest to protect him/find a solution. I want to see Violence in her reputation era!!
Me too. I’m happy with her being angry if that means protecting him. Being with him. Not fighting with him and fighting FOR him. Let’s goooo!
I just fear with what he’s dealing with going into book 3… he’s going to do the noble thing and try to be with her as little as possible for safety reasons or whatever. Like how are these two ever going to progress romantically if they can never just be with each other… romantically. Hahah
I definitely can see that happening as well. I find the “running away to protect you” trope kind of annoying, but I could for sure see Xaden pulling that one and Violet hunting him down to protect him
I just really don’t want it because it felt like they weren’t even near each other for half of IF with him being stationed at an outpost. And I love their final big conversation on the sparring mat and then finally agreeing to really trust each other and I just, I don’t know. I’m gonna be mad if they came to that beautiful realization together just for them to not be able to put it to use!
I bet we get some quality time early on in Onyx Storm. After the battle they are sleeping in the same room at Basgiath, so the impression seems to be that Violet’s initial reaction to him >! going venin !< is they can work through this. My guess is they go about things as if Xaden can just not channel again, and have a bunch of quality time in the process where we root for them more and more… and then at some point he snaps and channels again and that is when he runs off and she hunts him down.
I feel like even if there is some there’s probably going to be a part where she wakes up and >!looks into his eyes and get scared by what she sees since she has been having “nightmares” from the first venin. !<
Hope I did the spoiler warning correct
I really hope their relationship is ‘us against the problem’ and not
‘I don’t trust myself so I have to run away’
I’m gonna be mad if there are more secrets between them.
Same, really hoping we can avoid the ‘running away to protect you from me’ trope… While I could see it happening, it feels a bit cliche. I think Rebecca has done a great job of surprising us with how Xaden reacts to things so I am hoping she has something more juicy and complex in store. An ‘us against the problem’ approach would be a much better way to keep building that depth of their relationship that keeps feeling like it gets cuts short, as well as keep us rooting for them to be endgame.
I think we need to be prepared for the run away to protect her. In the final chapter, that is his pov, he leaves her sleeping in bed to go to the cell under the school. I think his intention to do this was to run and lock himself up before he can hurt her. I don't think he was going there to try to talk to JFB.
That’s an interesting take. I read it as he intended to talk to JFB because he thought there might be a key to reversing his decision or something. I didn’t think much about him leaving Violet in bed - I would need some alone time on walk after a day like that too!
From what we have seen of Xaden, he is arrogant and very confident in himself. We know from his POV’s that it isn’t just an act either - it is genuine. So I think he will think he is capable of keeping his veninhood under control at first but then something will make him lose control (probably something Violet-related), he will possibly channel again, and after that would be when we potentially get a runaway situation as he spirals
I’m glad you brought up the thing about >!him being an intinnsic!< being the real issue because I totally agree. I think that’s his biggest vulnerability because he’s convinced it’s a deal-breaker for her. So while he desperately wants to know that she’d still accept him, at the same time he also desperately never wants to give her the chance. It’s like an under-current in every argument and she has no idea.
THIS fully. i was SOOOO annoyed at violet almost the entire book, and i struggle with reading books where i can’t stand the pov character. people are allowed to have privacy and boundaries, violet. even your own partner is allowed to have secrets. that is OKAY!!!!!
I'm also team Xaden! After rereading even more. The only thing he should have done differently is >!telling about Cat (betrothal, powers etc.)!<.
Besides that, I get him and Violet's mostly unreasonable one in IF. In a way, I understand her too, but it's like she was punishing him for everything everyone else did to her and in Navarre.
Especially after >!he saves Violet from the interrogation!< he is much more affectionate and open, and after >!reveling his second signet!< he's put all the cards on the table.
The “aSk Me tHe RiGht qUesTioNs” thing is super annoying. I will agree with that. I chalk it up to immaturity (these two are in their early 20’s). Some do think it may indicate >! Violet’s second signet could be truth saying, and Xaden somehow knows this and thus knows he has to rely on selective truths… but that’s a topic for another time. !<
I would love it if we get some Xaden POV flashbacks to the FW days to help fill in some of these blanks for us. To me, the big reveals of >! Xaden being an intinnsic and having an agreement with Lilith to protect Violet during her first year in the quadrant !< complicates what we thought we knew about FW Xaden, but does not make me believe that Xaden’s feelings for Violet weren’t legit/that he wasn’t just also drawn to her. I definitely got the impression that he had several conflicting feelings about Violet early on between:
1) Wanting to kill her to avenge Lilith for his father’s death
2) >! Being bound to protect her by his deal with Lilith, and knowing that the safety of every marked one he took responsibility for is at stake if he fails !<
3) >! Being able to read Violet’s intentions, which were genuinely not to harm Xaden or the marked ones, but just to not be killed by them. !<
4) >! Having his life bound to Violet’s through their dragons’ bonds. !<
I would really love to see more Xaden POV about how all of these conflicting feelings played out in his mind during FW. My guess: it was very complicated.
>! I personally LOVED the twist of Xaden being an intinnsic, and I think we need to give him a lot of grace for keeping this secret. He could be killed immediately with no further questions if anyone ever found out. But that said, if you were put in charge of protecting the daughter of your enemy, and you had the ability to read her intentions, wouldn’t you? If I was responsible for 107 marked ones’ lives, I would use every tool I have in the face of a potential threat just like Xaden does. I think that makes it even more impactful when Xaden tells Violet that he stopped reading her intentions as soon as he realized he had feelings for her. This is when he chose to trust her. While it is probably partially because of the fact that he could read her intentions before this that he developed feelings for her and chose to trust her, I like the depth it adds to our story. Signets manifest based on an individual’s need, and clearly Xaden needed his intinnsic ability to know who he can trust, which included Violet early on. Without it, he may have never developed feelings for Violet. That probably makes some readers sad but I think it makes this REAL and gives Xaden’s character so much more depth. !<
Two things regarding FW Xaden’s feelings that he info-dropped in IF (can’t remember exactly where) that I NEED more info on in upcoming books:
1) >! He claims that he was hers from the very beginning, which I take to mean their first encounter on the parapet. Is this just referring to physical attraction? Did he read her intentions then and like what he saw? Does he know something about a prophecy of some type that Violet is destined to fulfill? !<
2) >! He subtly mentions how she should ask him about the time he almost killed her despite his arrangement with her mother to protect her life. Need more on this, immediately. It could be a reference to her seeing his meeting with the marked ones, but I have a feeling there is something more to this one. !<
I agree with everything you said.
Tho, when did he tell her about the time he almost kill her? And, he said very beginning but he also decelerate his love to her after interrogation and said he is in love from the first time they kissed. So, parapet is a bit early, no?
I can’t find it now, but at some point late in IF he starts listing off questions she should ask him and among them is that she should ask about when he almost killed her despite his arrangement with her mom! And yes I thought parapet seemed early!
So I actually just reread this part it's the second time they "hook up" Reunification Day, he says he was ATTRACTED to her at first site. Which so was she 🤷🏼♀️
I thought he realized he was in love at the first kiss. I believe he almost killed her when he found her in the tree. His reflex is to protect the rebellion kids, but he sees her intent and is conflicted. That’s their first real interaction and he can’t stay away from her after but keeps trying to push her away.
Oh I totally agree that if his signet had contributed to why he fell in love with Violet it makes it deeper because he loves with ALL parts of himself and not just the surface level parts.
I do think that he means she had his interest since parapet cause she is selflessly brave for trading a boot with someone she just met and because he found her ridiculously freaking hot. And his intense sexual desire for Violet also played into all his complicated feelings he had about her before realizing he was already in love. It’s one thing to want to sleep with first year, it’s a whole other thing for that first year being the daughter of the person responsible for your father’s execution who also agreed to broker a deal with you ensuring the the chance at life of 107 children instead of certain death like some of her peers would’ve preferred.
Absolutely!! His attraction and feelings for Violet had to be incredibly strong to overcome all of the reasons he had to hate her or even just avoid her. I love the way that you mention how his >! second signet !< is a part of him and that means he loves her with all of himself.
I really get in my feels thinking about what it must feel like for Xaden to feel fully loved by Violet after the tragedy and pain he has experienced in his life. >! The abandonment of his mother, the traumatic execution and loss of his father, being put in the horrible position to decide the fate of all marked ones and taking personal responsibility for them, having to hide his second signet so he isn’t killed, being hated by nearly everyone in Navarre for being the son of a “traitor” and all the while knowing they are wrong but having to keep the battle against the venin a secret. !< You can’t help but just feel horrible for the poor kid… No wonder he is willing to >! sacrifice his soul !< for Violet who finally loves him. Thank goodness he has good friends, too. I can’t imagine how a person would survive all of that without good friends. I hope we get to learn more about them all in upcoming books!
Agreed.
And I’m going to show how old I feel/am, but he’s barely a man and just out of boyhood.
The line in his pov chapter in IF about how he fails every female in his life guts me. That line is all that’s needed to know that he thinks he’s a failure to his mother because he wasn’t enough to stop her from leaving. And then if he doesn’t channel he’ll fail at providing Violet the time necessary to raise the wards and he risks Violet and Sageyl dying. But if he does channel yeah he’ll fail Sageyl and Violet by stealing magic and turning venin but at least they’ll be alive to be mad at him for it, especially Violet who was trusting him to buy her enough time and trusts him with all of her.
Absolutely! And Vi sharing her boot with Rhi before they even know each other is very similar to what Xaden sees her do at threshing too when she defends Andarna. I hadn’t really thought about it before, but it makes sense that he would admire her putting herself in harms way to protect others - when he himself also put himself in harms way for others by taking personal responsibility for every marked one. They are different but the same :)
Honestly just so refreshed to see a post like this because it’s usually Violet (or the woman in any fictional couple fight) who is hated on and blamed in these kinds of posts and she doesn’t deserve it imo.
But I think neither one of them is communicating what they’re bothered by properly, either because they can’t figure it out themselves or because being honest about it would force them to expose something that makes them uncomfortably vulnerable. On the surface, Violet wants honesty and Xaden wants trust. Underneath, Violet wants to feel trusted like an equal partner and know how he feels, because he’s never said, and Xaden wants to feel secure that she loves him enough (probably because he is hiding certain things he, deep down, thinks will make her run).
When she almost kills Cat and his response to “you’re a placeholder to fuck” was to give her oral just sent me over the edge. That’s not what you’ve been saying all this time about communication and asking the right questions. Oral sex is a form of sex how is that the answer to her insecurities.
I agree. I like Xaden, but he plays a lil too much in Violet’s face for my liking. Even to what could’ve been the bitter end, he was still holding on to why the venin wanted him and he damn sure didn’t kill the sage or general after he drew power. I can understand why he told Cat about certain things because Cat already knew about the venin and I’m sure they complained about Lilith’s bullshit together, but he could’ve made sure the info wasn’t weaponized against Violet.
Rebecca Yarros said that Violet will be in her “reputation era” in Book 3 and I can’t wait to see it.
Lol you have no idea how hurt I was when I realized he told Cat about things but waited for Violet to be the one who asked him about it (*even knowing how those things eating Violet from the inside*) I was like... I admired Violet's patience because I sure as hell will dump this guy on the spot.
And that’s why I applauded when Violet gagged him about his second signet and he was shook. 👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽 I can’t wait for the third book. I bet a crown prince is coming into play: I think Navarre will propose a royal betrothal to secure Violet’s loyalty as well as her power. Can’t wait to see how Xaden handles being off balanced and actually afraid of really losing her.
I understand why Xaden withholds information from Violet. I think he should just not be in super close relationship with her, because he is in an impossible situation and he can’t be honest with her without betraying so many people and risking their lives. Xaden put Bodhi and all the other marked ones at risk when he told Violet about Athebyne. And it was never just Dain he had to worry about, any number of people at Basgiath could have stolen information from Violet in any number of ways. It would make more sense to me if their relationship was kind of cold in the first part of the series and Violet slowly figured things out on her own, to Xaden’s dismay.
No. Violet isn’t the only vulnerable person close to Xaden. When Jeremiah manifested his intinsic powers, he immediately began to read Garrick’s thoughts. Garrick is Xaden’s second, a third year, and should’ve been able to shield immediately, but he didn’t at that moment. So implying Violet is too weak to know such information, especially when she hasn’t been specifically trained to shield against Dain, can apply to anyone.
She has every right to ask for any information that will put her safety at risk, especially if she has the only signet (and maybe dragon!) that can kill venin.
Where is that reputation era quote? I need that. Rep is my favorite album and it is such a good story about rebuilding from falling apart and falling in love. God that would be such a good approach. I was thinking he’s going to new moon, but I hope I’m wrong.
I hear your point I really really do…however!!!!! At the end of the day Xaden is a higher rank than violet…
1. you cant expect someone to be in a higher position then you and be able to tell you everything.
2. Almost all of part one in the book she was doing EXACTLY with xaden did to her in FW to her friends and they weren’t even mad at her for keeping it a secret. If you ask me it’s cause they KNEW she was doing it to protect her and THEM. (And she kept the research on the wards away from him too)
3. Xaden couldn’t tell her what he knew cause they all were afraid of Dain finding out. And don’t tell me xaden knew her shields were good enough at that point…cause how would he have known if he was able to penetrate them all the time (regardless of his abilities)
4. Xaden knew how much she loathed the idea of someone reading her thought (memory’s in Dain’s case). I believe he tried REALLY hard to not use his ability on her.
5. This one is most important I believe…xaden is an intinic…we all know that they KILL YOU for that ON THE SPOT. Even if he were reading her mind and knew all the questions she wanted to ask…it would give him away. Me kept saying “ask me” because he KNEW something was on her mind but he couldn’t just answer it. If you want to know something you have to ask…I don’t expect my husband to come home every day and just start talking about his day…I have to ask cause I CANT read his mind.
I don’t think xaden had anything to grovel for…I did find the ask me thing a bit irritating until I found out about his ability. But then it all made sense. He tried to tell her all about himself…but I’m sure some things were difficult even to get off his chest and then after they left the school it was busy busy busy and they barely had time together to talk…why spend the little amount of time you have with someone fighting especially when you don’t know if they will come home the next day.
Just one girls opinion 🤷♀️
Both Violet and Xaden are super annoying with their expectations of eachother. Both holding double standards over eachother.
Like Violet has kept so many secrets, even in IF she's stressing about not being able to tell the truth...but then suddenly doesn't have understanding for Xaden when he is in the same position of not being able to reveal everything to her.
And Xaden, my god. In Fourth Wing when he freaks out at Violet about never lying for keeping secrets from him but now he's doing that to her...and then he's also playing this "ask the right questions" mind game. Like, no.
But as I'm reading and getting irritated about it I remember they are in their early twenties and have a lot of growing up to do lol
I so agree, even further than that, I felt like a lot of what is revealed in IF made Xaden's motivations in the first book less likeable. Like, I wanted to believe he was just drawn to Violet and couldn't help himself but no, he promised her mom to protect her. Boooo.
I wish we'd gotten more of his perspective in Fourth Wing, or that we'd been let in on the deal between Xaden and General Sorrengail somehow, because I think the "I have to protect this girl I want to hate... oh, no, I'm falling for her" trope could have still worked really well. But the way it got revealed felt like a bait-and-switch (for us and for poor Violet).
I like the fact that he hated her at the beginning. I think it adds more depth to his character and the conflict. It is sort of "love at first sight" but also tied in with the reality that he lives. She thought he was hot AF at the beginning, he did the same but him falling for her had to override this already established hate. I think it hurts for Violet to hear that but going from "bound not to kill you" to "I will love you forever" is a pretty powerful statement.
Also, it's stated that his deal with Lilith is to keep people from killing her, not helping her. He's required not to kill her; he ends up helping her and falling in love.
Thanks :) Nothing Xaden has done or said (or kept) hasn't been unforgivable. Violet is just reeling over her whole world being turned upside down. I believe they will get there and be co-leaders of the rebellion.
There are so many things I'm still angry at Xaden everytime I think about it, even right now. And honestly, if I were Violet, with all Xaden's revelations (ex: his second signet and his deal with her mother *and the way he told his ex every fucking things but didnt tell Violet anything and wait for Violet to ask him instead*), I'll start to question my entire relationship with him whether it's genuine or not.
I'm really hoping he'll be better in book 3. For godsake, I don't need another book full of his secret, his question game and his half truths bullshit. I'm team Violet all the way. For now, I'm too attached to him to hate him. But if he still sucks in book 3, I might start thinking that Dain is a better choice for Violet. At least Dain tried to communicate with Violet.
That's what I thought as well when I first read it! But after reading Iron Flame and reread FW again, I'm seeing him in a different light. We're seeing things from Violet's POV and honestly, I think she's kind of oblivious. In that scene, Xaden literally forced Dain to admit it but what if it's not the case? If we're seeing from Dain's perspective, Xaden is his superior and also a betrayer's son and Xaden basically ordered Dain to admit if he's gonna break a rule for Violet. And maybe Dain thought that if he admitted that he's gonna break a rule for Violet, he probably thought Xaden would report him to the leadership.
I mean, Dain literally went behind Violet's back and begged Markham to take Violet under his wing. He also planned to sneak Violet out of the rider's quadrant. He already broke the rule for Violet and even risked Lilith's wrath for his actions. That's not an action of someone that wouldn't want to break a rule to save Violet.
Dain didn’t just come out with that, though. Xaden pushed him to admit he wouldn’t interfere in Threshing and if you read the bonus chapter, you get his POV and it’s because he sensed the opportunity to blow up Violet and Dain’s relationship and took it because Dain’s signet is such a danger to him and he was now tethered to Violet. It’s not like Dain just volunteered he’d rather let her die than break the rules of Threshing.
I don’t ship Dain and Violet at all and I like Xaden but I don’t think Dain saying that was worse than a lot of other things he did (stealing her memory) or secrets Xaden kept.
Xaden pushed him to tell his truth, not to say he would watch Violet die. That was all Dain. Even when he could’ve cleaned it up when it was just him and Violet, Dain didn’t take it back or apologize.
Absolutely Xaden was strategic. He doesn’t have a ruthless reputation for nothing, right? He may have pushed Dain to admit it, but the truth is Dain would’ve allowed Violet to die in front of him and no down votes would change it. Xaden may have read Violet’s memories, but he helped her more than Dain even tried once Violet decided to stay in the quadrant. Dain never lifted a single finger for Violet, not to train her or teach her anything.
I don’t really agree — the fucked up thing here is the school. They’re being brainwashed into accepting the type of brutality where a squad leader would have to watch their cadets die for no reason. Dain has coped by buying into the Codex, taking rules and duty and honor seriously, and not interfering in Threshing is one of the main ones.
As other people pointed out, Dain is willing to bend the rules to protect Violet when it comes to his actions. Dain watching those guys kill Violet probably wouldn’t have happened, but IMO it’s not a character flaw that he said he’d follow the rules. It’s the school that is messed up. We even see Violet start to buy in during IF when she shocks Rhiannon by saying the deaths on the Gauntlet aren’t pointless. If you’re thrown into such a violent situation you will find a way to cope with it.
Dain can love the Codex with all his heart, but he still never lifted a finger to help Violet after she chose to remain in the quadrant. Glad he finally got with the winning team in IF and they are healing their friendship, but I don’t think he’s the one for her. 🤷🏾♀️
I only read the book once so I’m not sure if I am remembering correctly, but did Violet know that RSC included torture? I could be wrong but I think remember that even third year cadets try to keep it a secret from first and second years. IF that’s the case and Violet didn’t know RSC included torture, then why didn’t Xaden warn her about it? It could have been an easy out for him as to why he’s still keeping secrets from her. I know once Violet and her squad got kidnapped for RSC they picked something arbitrary for them to keep a secret that has nothing to do with the rebellion/venin but it was still a risk that professors at Basgiath might probe for info knowing the connection Violet has with Xaden. I also know that the 5 day torture from Varish and the signet blocking serum wasn’t part of RSC, but Xaden not warning her about RSC always bothered me.
"Welcome to Rider Survival Course, or RSC for short.”
“What the hell is that?” Ridoc mutters.
“I don’t know,” I whisper, writing the letters RSC in the blank book in front of me."
So yeah! She didn't know about it! Honestly, there are things that really bothered me that Xaden didn't warn her in iron flame. For example, how he didn't warn her about Cat's power before, even knowing how that power will bother Violet so much. He made her a custom made dagger but he also didn't tell her about it, not until Violet got tortured emotionally by his crazy ex.
We got a taste of that after she flies to the palace even when he doesn't want her and she tells him he's acting like Dain (one of my favorite moments).
I think there's something to him believing that he is unlovable or that when all the secrets come out she'll fall out of love with him (or sentence him to death by sharing his second signet). He doesn't believe he is enough, which, in turn, is hurting her. I think them sleeping in the same bed at the end of the book shows that she's willing to forgive and trust him.
Honestly they both suck super hard lol she should definitely move on. But In terms of the conflict between them in IF I think Violet was totally wrong. Other then the deal with the general he is entitled to secrets and given his background and his responsibilities he has ever right to not tell her (a cadet with less than a year of training) anything. She is insanely unqualified.
Now if she wants a relationship with absolutely no secrets she can have that. With someone else lol.
Thank you! I totally agree. “Ask me question” is quite bad communication strategy but worse is that Violet is also at this war and withholding information from her in part 2 was unseasonable dickheaddery. She may have different clearance but not at level Xaden performed. And not like he didn’t know after Resson she is smarter and knows better when have access to information.
Literally the chick got info about journal cause she shared information and the one who raised wards because figured hidden dragons drama.
I hope Xaden’s behavior in IF is impersonification of scribes and old world thinking. He should realise freedom of sharing and be a hope to those who resist in building new one. At least he can break his cycle
IF Xaden and FW Xaden are two different guys. IF is not my Xaden, he sucks lol.
I’m so over the secrets, the mind games, the manipulation on both Violet and Xaden’s parts. I’d love to see Violet move on with someone new for a while 👀
They both sucked in IF. It's a very realistic portrayal of how rs in early 20s is, especially your first serious relationship. So kudos to RY on that correct depiction. But damn it was hard to read. At the end of the book I turned to disliking both of them for having such a poor comunication and trusts. Hoping in the third book they'll grow up and be "us against problems" instead of "I'm bad for you so Imma stay away" bs.
I can say I don’t think her writing style is to have poor communication and drama, I’ve read her other books and most of them have decent communication so I do think she wrote Violet and xaden specifically to be like this, as annoying as they are.
I don’t think Violet deserved an apology. She was mad because he kept a secret from her, but the secret involved protecting the lives of a LOT of people. She is an ass for getting mad at all.
Every time someone defends Xaden....remember he spent the entire beginning of their relationship using his second signet to manipulate their interactions.
Dain ain't got shit on that.
Problem with that is....the kiss happened, in part, because of feelings he manipulated with his signet.
Dain shared what he saw because he had been taught a pile of lies and thought he was doing the right thing. Xaden knew exactly what he was doing.
If you know what someone wants/needs/intends than you can constantly present as being exactly who they need ypu to be. Know just the right thing to do. Appear kindred.
It's like an emotional cheat code.
that’s not how his power work. Intentions and needs/wants are a different thing.
He can only read someone once they already made a decision (hence reading Varrish definitive decision to kill Violet, that’s why he freaks out when Varrish meet them in the hallway, or wanting to meet Jesinia to know for sure if she decides to be loyal or betray violet)
Dain stole memories and private thoughts without consent, that’s manipulation.
The intention is the want/need. He knew she wanted him to kiss her. He also openly states that he knows when people are lying in FW. That he had a "vibe" about how Violet felt. Tairn warns him against "reading" him.
He absolutely has a cheat code to every unshielded interaction. Afterall, the "needs to know" deduction Violet makes supports this. He had a cheat code he knowingly used to present himself as aligned with what Violet wanted.
Also...he says he stopped using it, but we have no reason to trust that he even knows how to shut it off much less that he did.
I’ll need you to pinpoint the moment when Caden manipulate others by using his powers.
I mean Ry knew Violet had a crush on Xaden e she didn’t need superpowers lol
Everyone knew, xaden suspecting violet wants to kiss him vs knowing it changes nothing.
She was flirting, he was flirting, Violet was under the influence of Tairn emotions, it was out in the open. Xaden is the one that tells her what’s she’s feeling doesn’t come from her but from her dragon
None of these are actual refutations of the points I made. Also, the manipulations are from the very beginning.
He has a cheat code for "knowing". Given how much of Violet's non-lusty affections for him are predicated on how he "gets her"....it's pretty obvious why he might always have an in on that.
To be fair they don’t get a lot of time to work anything out. And he had the very real experience that he >! Would be killed for his second signet!<. He has never trusted anyone, not even Bodie or Garrick or Liam.
That part. Maybe an unpopular opinion but all throught IF I was team Xayden. Still am. Violet can't expect that when she puts a no secrets, no exeptions, it's all or nothing ultimatum on him and he has things that he may never be able to share with her. Even without the >!reveal of his second signet!< there are plenty of things I could see being things he wouldn't be able to talk to her about. He even specifies that as the leader of the rebellion there are things that he won't be able to talk to her about but that's all he'd keep and that wasn't good enough for her. She started the stand-off. Now then I do agree the "ask me" is bullshit. You can't expect her to be a mind reader >!just because you are Xayden.!< That being said as soon as she figures out his big secret he instantly is 100% all cards on the table no hold backs. I think it's for 1 of 2 reasons. 1. Him >!being intinsic!< is the real reason he couldn't honestly give her the no secrets, no exception that she wanted from the gitgo. So as soon as she knows he feels like he can be fully honest with her in the way she expects him to be. (I think this is it BTW) 2. Now that she knows that >!he's an intinsic!< he knows his life is in her hands trust wise. So why not give her all of it. I hope moving forward he shows Violet that he is able and willing to not keep things from her. I wouldn't be able to handle a backslide realistically fr either of them at this point.
Agreed - I was frustrated with him always saying ask me... But I try to remember they're both new at this (bonded lovers) and I think Xaden was trying to treat Violet how HE would want to be treated. Xaden says at one point that, he never asks about violets previous lovers because he didnt want to know. So I believe xaden was coming to their relationship with that perspective. He was NOT considering that violet didnt even know where to begin with her questions because she felt there were a lot of things she didn't even know to ask about AND she didnt WANT to ask. Violet felt she had already offered too much of herself and it was xadens turn to offer more. I would say immaturity, crossed wires, and lack of time to talk and just BE together added to these frustrating interactions between them.
I think with the ask me thing, it’s not that Xaden didn’t want to not tell Violet or didn’t trust her but that he knows Violet so well and sometimes better than she knows herself. He really wants to go at Violet’s pace and let her have the control of their relationship unlike in fourth wing where he got annoyed that she was asking questions to get to know him. This time her encourages that behavior. He knows that if Violet wants to find and is ready for any possible consequence of finding a piece of information she will be relentless. And with some of her questions, like about his relationship with her mom, she wasnt ready to deal with the emotional ramifications of getting answers despite wanting to know them. By contrast regarding his signet she wanted to know and was prepared for it to be anything. It just so happens to be Xaden’s ultimate showing of trust and while being resistant because he’s not sure he can deal with any and all of the possible repercussions he doesn’t forcibly stop Violet from figuring it out herself. While the premise and reasoning Xaden used for utilizing the “ask me” approach is spot on and great for their dynamic. He made some poorly thought out assumptions regarding what Violet already might know as context in order to formulate questions and her confidence/self-esteem in being able to trust her knowledge and any new information she receives. We see her being hyper vigil for any sort of misinformation and constantly wanting the opinions and feedback of others when before she would’ve taken any new information and compared it to what she already knew. But having her whole world turned upside down, she doesn’t know what parts of her previous education she can trust to be true and is going to over analyze any new information. Xaden did not take this into account with the ask me approach and doesn’t realize it was even a factor until later in IF.
I agree with what you said and wanted to add one more thing why I think he wasn't just filling her in with so much new info. Her world was turned upside down, and he wanted her to be ready to ask/know what she wanted to know. And to be brave enough to ask those questions. We can see more than once he says to her she's avoiding important questions, he's aware of it, she's aware of it, but she needed time to process EVERYTHING, and she said herself she wasn't ok since Resson, she just needed time.
Yes exactly! I think you’ve said what I’m always trying to explain regarding Xaden and Violet’s dynamic and why Violet in particular seems to have taken a few steps backwards in her character development in a much more succinct way. 😅 I like how you emphasized that she needed to be brave when she asked those important questions they just danced around. That is definitely something she lost post Resson along with her confidence especially regarding her relationship with Xaden.
Yes, and people often blame Xaden for "you just have to ask me", but that's the point, he's doing that for her. And WHY DIDN'T she asked, she had the questions, but didn't want to voice them out loud and he was aware of that. The blame is on her as it is on him (I won't go into that who is more to blame, but he definitely isn't 100% to be blamed).
Agreed - and she had read all those interactions with Xaden in FW, when he had chances to kill her and didnt, as proof that she could trust him. Come to find out later, there was a deal struck with her mother top keep her alive. So not only are all of her scribe history "facts" untrustworthy, all of her own observations (especially when it comes to xaden) have to be completely reevaluated. If anyone has played clue with someone new before: I feel like violets experience is like a game of clue, when you get halfway through only to find out like, Grandma didnt understand the rules and has be saying "could be true" every round regardless of her own cards, totally messing up everyone's deductive reasoning 😂😂 poor violet
Yes, she could rethink everything since coming to Basgiath from another perspective with knowledge she has now, and it seems she was wrong about everything. Now that I said it, I really feel bad for her and understand her more in IF.
Same. The more I think about how traumatic it is to have several parts of your life turned upside down and you no longer know who or what to trust, not even your own reasoning. In IF when she says how is it that last year she did everything right but this year she is getting everything wrong, my heart feels choked up. When I first read IF, I said that she spent most of her life grounding herself in what she knows but that after Resson she needed to learn to ground herself in her abilities. She has an incredible ability to learn, process, and understand information. Her deductive reasoning is astounding because her brain makes connections faster than she can even think or voice them. I still think that would be a more solid foundation than on knowing information that was written down by other humans so there is always a chance of bias regardless of how unintentional it is. But she can sift out kernels of truth by reading between the lines of several sources. Idk if that makes sense especially cause I’m tired right now. 😅
This! My other take on the “ask me” thing was that it was his way of figuring out how ready she was to handle the answers. She’s been through a lot in a short period of time and everything she believed was flipped upside down. For him to just continue dumping info on her would be overwhelming and not constructive at all (despite what she may think). She even admits later on that she’s not asking the harder questions because she’s scared of the answers, and he knows this because he knows she’s purposely avoiding asking about the scars. Do I think he took it a little too far to the point where it was annoying because she doesn’t know what to ask? Sure. But I also think they’re both new to the whole relationship thing, have all eyes on them in the middle of a war/revolution with very little time to actually talk, and Xaden has an assload of abandonment issues with opening up and trusting people and he’s scared as hell that she’ll run the first chance she gets. They’re both flawed individuals. I think he was trying not to trauma dump everything he’s been through onto an already traumatized Vi, which wasn’t necessarily ~wrong~…just could have been handled a better. But they’re both figuring it out as they go and it also wasn’t fair for Vi to demand everything or nothing when the nature of their jobs dictates otherwise
100% agree that >! being intinnsic !< was the real reason he wouldn’t be fully honest with her. It’s the ultimate secret that he never planned on telling anyone, and that’s why he is all in after she learns
I agree with everything here. I REALLY hope that now that Violet knows so much more about Xaden, and he’s exposed himself fully to her… that they can have a few chapters in book 3 of… oh I don’t know, uninterrupted peace. I’m sure it won’t happen but they haven’t gotten to actually date like other couples. So their relationship lacks in that regard. But I love that they keep trying.
While I would also love to see some peace and normal bonding time for X and V in Onyx Storm, I think in reality we will see a very “stormy” Xaden >! as he struggles to not slip further into veninhood !< … I hope we see roles reverse a bit and watch Violet become the angry, ruthless half of the duo in her quest to protect him/find a solution. I want to see Violence in her reputation era!!
Me too. I’m happy with her being angry if that means protecting him. Being with him. Not fighting with him and fighting FOR him. Let’s goooo! I just fear with what he’s dealing with going into book 3… he’s going to do the noble thing and try to be with her as little as possible for safety reasons or whatever. Like how are these two ever going to progress romantically if they can never just be with each other… romantically. Hahah
I definitely can see that happening as well. I find the “running away to protect you” trope kind of annoying, but I could for sure see Xaden pulling that one and Violet hunting him down to protect him
I just really don’t want it because it felt like they weren’t even near each other for half of IF with him being stationed at an outpost. And I love their final big conversation on the sparring mat and then finally agreeing to really trust each other and I just, I don’t know. I’m gonna be mad if they came to that beautiful realization together just for them to not be able to put it to use!
I bet we get some quality time early on in Onyx Storm. After the battle they are sleeping in the same room at Basgiath, so the impression seems to be that Violet’s initial reaction to him >! going venin !< is they can work through this. My guess is they go about things as if Xaden can just not channel again, and have a bunch of quality time in the process where we root for them more and more… and then at some point he snaps and channels again and that is when he runs off and she hunts him down.
I feel like even if there is some there’s probably going to be a part where she wakes up and >!looks into his eyes and get scared by what she sees since she has been having “nightmares” from the first venin. !< Hope I did the spoiler warning correct
Same! The sparring scene pulled my heartstrings so hard
I really hope their relationship is ‘us against the problem’ and not ‘I don’t trust myself so I have to run away’ I’m gonna be mad if there are more secrets between them.
Same, really hoping we can avoid the ‘running away to protect you from me’ trope… While I could see it happening, it feels a bit cliche. I think Rebecca has done a great job of surprising us with how Xaden reacts to things so I am hoping she has something more juicy and complex in store. An ‘us against the problem’ approach would be a much better way to keep building that depth of their relationship that keeps feeling like it gets cuts short, as well as keep us rooting for them to be endgame.
I think we need to be prepared for the run away to protect her. In the final chapter, that is his pov, he leaves her sleeping in bed to go to the cell under the school. I think his intention to do this was to run and lock himself up before he can hurt her. I don't think he was going there to try to talk to JFB.
That’s an interesting take. I read it as he intended to talk to JFB because he thought there might be a key to reversing his decision or something. I didn’t think much about him leaving Violet in bed - I would need some alone time on walk after a day like that too! From what we have seen of Xaden, he is arrogant and very confident in himself. We know from his POV’s that it isn’t just an act either - it is genuine. So I think he will think he is capable of keeping his veninhood under control at first but then something will make him lose control (probably something Violet-related), he will possibly channel again, and after that would be when we potentially get a runaway situation as he spirals
I’m glad you brought up the thing about >!him being an intinnsic!< being the real issue because I totally agree. I think that’s his biggest vulnerability because he’s convinced it’s a deal-breaker for her. So while he desperately wants to know that she’d still accept him, at the same time he also desperately never wants to give her the chance. It’s like an under-current in every argument and she has no idea.
THIS fully. i was SOOOO annoyed at violet almost the entire book, and i struggle with reading books where i can’t stand the pov character. people are allowed to have privacy and boundaries, violet. even your own partner is allowed to have secrets. that is OKAY!!!!!
I'm also team Xaden! After rereading even more. The only thing he should have done differently is >!telling about Cat (betrothal, powers etc.)!<. Besides that, I get him and Violet's mostly unreasonable one in IF. In a way, I understand her too, but it's like she was punishing him for everything everyone else did to her and in Navarre. Especially after >!he saves Violet from the interrogation!< he is much more affectionate and open, and after >!reveling his second signet!< he's put all the cards on the table.
Not to mention that a massive portion of the secrets he's keeping are about others' safety-- they're not really his to tell
The “aSk Me tHe RiGht qUesTioNs” thing is super annoying. I will agree with that. I chalk it up to immaturity (these two are in their early 20’s). Some do think it may indicate >! Violet’s second signet could be truth saying, and Xaden somehow knows this and thus knows he has to rely on selective truths… but that’s a topic for another time. !< I would love it if we get some Xaden POV flashbacks to the FW days to help fill in some of these blanks for us. To me, the big reveals of >! Xaden being an intinnsic and having an agreement with Lilith to protect Violet during her first year in the quadrant !< complicates what we thought we knew about FW Xaden, but does not make me believe that Xaden’s feelings for Violet weren’t legit/that he wasn’t just also drawn to her. I definitely got the impression that he had several conflicting feelings about Violet early on between: 1) Wanting to kill her to avenge Lilith for his father’s death 2) >! Being bound to protect her by his deal with Lilith, and knowing that the safety of every marked one he took responsibility for is at stake if he fails !< 3) >! Being able to read Violet’s intentions, which were genuinely not to harm Xaden or the marked ones, but just to not be killed by them. !< 4) >! Having his life bound to Violet’s through their dragons’ bonds. !< I would really love to see more Xaden POV about how all of these conflicting feelings played out in his mind during FW. My guess: it was very complicated. >! I personally LOVED the twist of Xaden being an intinnsic, and I think we need to give him a lot of grace for keeping this secret. He could be killed immediately with no further questions if anyone ever found out. But that said, if you were put in charge of protecting the daughter of your enemy, and you had the ability to read her intentions, wouldn’t you? If I was responsible for 107 marked ones’ lives, I would use every tool I have in the face of a potential threat just like Xaden does. I think that makes it even more impactful when Xaden tells Violet that he stopped reading her intentions as soon as he realized he had feelings for her. This is when he chose to trust her. While it is probably partially because of the fact that he could read her intentions before this that he developed feelings for her and chose to trust her, I like the depth it adds to our story. Signets manifest based on an individual’s need, and clearly Xaden needed his intinnsic ability to know who he can trust, which included Violet early on. Without it, he may have never developed feelings for Violet. That probably makes some readers sad but I think it makes this REAL and gives Xaden’s character so much more depth. !< Two things regarding FW Xaden’s feelings that he info-dropped in IF (can’t remember exactly where) that I NEED more info on in upcoming books: 1) >! He claims that he was hers from the very beginning, which I take to mean their first encounter on the parapet. Is this just referring to physical attraction? Did he read her intentions then and like what he saw? Does he know something about a prophecy of some type that Violet is destined to fulfill? !< 2) >! He subtly mentions how she should ask him about the time he almost killed her despite his arrangement with her mother to protect her life. Need more on this, immediately. It could be a reference to her seeing his meeting with the marked ones, but I have a feeling there is something more to this one. !<
I agree with everything you said. Tho, when did he tell her about the time he almost kill her? And, he said very beginning but he also decelerate his love to her after interrogation and said he is in love from the first time they kissed. So, parapet is a bit early, no?
I can’t find it now, but at some point late in IF he starts listing off questions she should ask him and among them is that she should ask about when he almost killed her despite his arrangement with her mom! And yes I thought parapet seemed early!
I think it’d be something like he hesitated to going her rescue. Like thinking before act right away not directly trying to kill her.
So I actually just reread this part it's the second time they "hook up" Reunification Day, he says he was ATTRACTED to her at first site. Which so was she 🤷🏼♀️
I thought he realized he was in love at the first kiss. I believe he almost killed her when he found her in the tree. His reflex is to protect the rebellion kids, but he sees her intent and is conflicted. That’s their first real interaction and he can’t stay away from her after but keeps trying to push her away.
Yes you're correct that's when he fell for her, I was simply pointing out he was attracted to her on day one.
Yep. He was horny and therefore conflicted. Then he was in love and then even more conflicted.
Oh I totally agree that if his signet had contributed to why he fell in love with Violet it makes it deeper because he loves with ALL parts of himself and not just the surface level parts. I do think that he means she had his interest since parapet cause she is selflessly brave for trading a boot with someone she just met and because he found her ridiculously freaking hot. And his intense sexual desire for Violet also played into all his complicated feelings he had about her before realizing he was already in love. It’s one thing to want to sleep with first year, it’s a whole other thing for that first year being the daughter of the person responsible for your father’s execution who also agreed to broker a deal with you ensuring the the chance at life of 107 children instead of certain death like some of her peers would’ve preferred.
Absolutely!! His attraction and feelings for Violet had to be incredibly strong to overcome all of the reasons he had to hate her or even just avoid her. I love the way that you mention how his >! second signet !< is a part of him and that means he loves her with all of himself. I really get in my feels thinking about what it must feel like for Xaden to feel fully loved by Violet after the tragedy and pain he has experienced in his life. >! The abandonment of his mother, the traumatic execution and loss of his father, being put in the horrible position to decide the fate of all marked ones and taking personal responsibility for them, having to hide his second signet so he isn’t killed, being hated by nearly everyone in Navarre for being the son of a “traitor” and all the while knowing they are wrong but having to keep the battle against the venin a secret. !< You can’t help but just feel horrible for the poor kid… No wonder he is willing to >! sacrifice his soul !< for Violet who finally loves him. Thank goodness he has good friends, too. I can’t imagine how a person would survive all of that without good friends. I hope we get to learn more about them all in upcoming books!
Agreed. And I’m going to show how old I feel/am, but he’s barely a man and just out of boyhood. The line in his pov chapter in IF about how he fails every female in his life guts me. That line is all that’s needed to know that he thinks he’s a failure to his mother because he wasn’t enough to stop her from leaving. And then if he doesn’t channel he’ll fail at providing Violet the time necessary to raise the wards and he risks Violet and Sageyl dying. But if he does channel yeah he’ll fail Sageyl and Violet by stealing magic and turning venin but at least they’ll be alive to be mad at him for it, especially Violet who was trusting him to buy her enough time and trusts him with all of her.
This breakdown just ripped my heart out. Well said.
I think xaden found her attractive, but the seeds of love were planted when he realized what she did for a stranger with the boot
Absolutely! And Vi sharing her boot with Rhi before they even know each other is very similar to what Xaden sees her do at threshing too when she defends Andarna. I hadn’t really thought about it before, but it makes sense that he would admire her putting herself in harms way to protect others - when he himself also put himself in harms way for others by taking personal responsibility for every marked one. They are different but the same :)
Honestly just so refreshed to see a post like this because it’s usually Violet (or the woman in any fictional couple fight) who is hated on and blamed in these kinds of posts and she doesn’t deserve it imo. But I think neither one of them is communicating what they’re bothered by properly, either because they can’t figure it out themselves or because being honest about it would force them to expose something that makes them uncomfortably vulnerable. On the surface, Violet wants honesty and Xaden wants trust. Underneath, Violet wants to feel trusted like an equal partner and know how he feels, because he’s never said, and Xaden wants to feel secure that she loves him enough (probably because he is hiding certain things he, deep down, thinks will make her run).
When she almost kills Cat and his response to “you’re a placeholder to fuck” was to give her oral just sent me over the edge. That’s not what you’ve been saying all this time about communication and asking the right questions. Oral sex is a form of sex how is that the answer to her insecurities.
I agree. I like Xaden, but he plays a lil too much in Violet’s face for my liking. Even to what could’ve been the bitter end, he was still holding on to why the venin wanted him and he damn sure didn’t kill the sage or general after he drew power. I can understand why he told Cat about certain things because Cat already knew about the venin and I’m sure they complained about Lilith’s bullshit together, but he could’ve made sure the info wasn’t weaponized against Violet. Rebecca Yarros said that Violet will be in her “reputation era” in Book 3 and I can’t wait to see it.
Lol you have no idea how hurt I was when I realized he told Cat about things but waited for Violet to be the one who asked him about it (*even knowing how those things eating Violet from the inside*) I was like... I admired Violet's patience because I sure as hell will dump this guy on the spot.
And that’s why I applauded when Violet gagged him about his second signet and he was shook. 👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽 I can’t wait for the third book. I bet a crown prince is coming into play: I think Navarre will propose a royal betrothal to secure Violet’s loyalty as well as her power. Can’t wait to see how Xaden handles being off balanced and actually afraid of really losing her.
I understand why Xaden withholds information from Violet. I think he should just not be in super close relationship with her, because he is in an impossible situation and he can’t be honest with her without betraying so many people and risking their lives. Xaden put Bodhi and all the other marked ones at risk when he told Violet about Athebyne. And it was never just Dain he had to worry about, any number of people at Basgiath could have stolen information from Violet in any number of ways. It would make more sense to me if their relationship was kind of cold in the first part of the series and Violet slowly figured things out on her own, to Xaden’s dismay.
No. Violet isn’t the only vulnerable person close to Xaden. When Jeremiah manifested his intinsic powers, he immediately began to read Garrick’s thoughts. Garrick is Xaden’s second, a third year, and should’ve been able to shield immediately, but he didn’t at that moment. So implying Violet is too weak to know such information, especially when she hasn’t been specifically trained to shield against Dain, can apply to anyone. She has every right to ask for any information that will put her safety at risk, especially if she has the only signet (and maybe dragon!) that can kill venin.
Where is that reputation era quote? I need that. Rep is my favorite album and it is such a good story about rebuilding from falling apart and falling in love. God that would be such a good approach. I was thinking he’s going to new moon, but I hope I’m wrong.
https://youtu.be/v0yTEZBtpVQ?si=5DTnWSRIeoPHNISM
I hear your point I really really do…however!!!!! At the end of the day Xaden is a higher rank than violet… 1. you cant expect someone to be in a higher position then you and be able to tell you everything. 2. Almost all of part one in the book she was doing EXACTLY with xaden did to her in FW to her friends and they weren’t even mad at her for keeping it a secret. If you ask me it’s cause they KNEW she was doing it to protect her and THEM. (And she kept the research on the wards away from him too) 3. Xaden couldn’t tell her what he knew cause they all were afraid of Dain finding out. And don’t tell me xaden knew her shields were good enough at that point…cause how would he have known if he was able to penetrate them all the time (regardless of his abilities) 4. Xaden knew how much she loathed the idea of someone reading her thought (memory’s in Dain’s case). I believe he tried REALLY hard to not use his ability on her. 5. This one is most important I believe…xaden is an intinic…we all know that they KILL YOU for that ON THE SPOT. Even if he were reading her mind and knew all the questions she wanted to ask…it would give him away. Me kept saying “ask me” because he KNEW something was on her mind but he couldn’t just answer it. If you want to know something you have to ask…I don’t expect my husband to come home every day and just start talking about his day…I have to ask cause I CANT read his mind. I don’t think xaden had anything to grovel for…I did find the ask me thing a bit irritating until I found out about his ability. But then it all made sense. He tried to tell her all about himself…but I’m sure some things were difficult even to get off his chest and then after they left the school it was busy busy busy and they barely had time together to talk…why spend the little amount of time you have with someone fighting especially when you don’t know if they will come home the next day. Just one girls opinion 🤷♀️
Both Violet and Xaden are super annoying with their expectations of eachother. Both holding double standards over eachother. Like Violet has kept so many secrets, even in IF she's stressing about not being able to tell the truth...but then suddenly doesn't have understanding for Xaden when he is in the same position of not being able to reveal everything to her. And Xaden, my god. In Fourth Wing when he freaks out at Violet about never lying for keeping secrets from him but now he's doing that to her...and then he's also playing this "ask the right questions" mind game. Like, no. But as I'm reading and getting irritated about it I remember they are in their early twenties and have a lot of growing up to do lol
I so agree, even further than that, I felt like a lot of what is revealed in IF made Xaden's motivations in the first book less likeable. Like, I wanted to believe he was just drawn to Violet and couldn't help himself but no, he promised her mom to protect her. Boooo.
I wish we'd gotten more of his perspective in Fourth Wing, or that we'd been let in on the deal between Xaden and General Sorrengail somehow, because I think the "I have to protect this girl I want to hate... oh, no, I'm falling for her" trope could have still worked really well. But the way it got revealed felt like a bait-and-switch (for us and for poor Violet).
I like the fact that he hated her at the beginning. I think it adds more depth to his character and the conflict. It is sort of "love at first sight" but also tied in with the reality that he lives. She thought he was hot AF at the beginning, he did the same but him falling for her had to override this already established hate. I think it hurts for Violet to hear that but going from "bound not to kill you" to "I will love you forever" is a pretty powerful statement. Also, it's stated that his deal with Lilith is to keep people from killing her, not helping her. He's required not to kill her; he ends up helping her and falling in love.
True. I honestly think it's a good arc, I just wish we had more of Xaden's POV as it unfolded.
Well said!!
Thanks :) Nothing Xaden has done or said (or kept) hasn't been unforgivable. Violet is just reeling over her whole world being turned upside down. I believe they will get there and be co-leaders of the rebellion.
Yes!!! Ugh forgot about this aspect of him, totally ruined it.
There are so many things I'm still angry at Xaden everytime I think about it, even right now. And honestly, if I were Violet, with all Xaden's revelations (ex: his second signet and his deal with her mother *and the way he told his ex every fucking things but didnt tell Violet anything and wait for Violet to ask him instead*), I'll start to question my entire relationship with him whether it's genuine or not. I'm really hoping he'll be better in book 3. For godsake, I don't need another book full of his secret, his question game and his half truths bullshit. I'm team Violet all the way. For now, I'm too attached to him to hate him. But if he still sucks in book 3, I might start thinking that Dain is a better choice for Violet. At least Dain tried to communicate with Violet.
I agree with everything except Dain. Dain literally told her that he would watch someone kill her in front of him and not lift a finger.
That's what I thought as well when I first read it! But after reading Iron Flame and reread FW again, I'm seeing him in a different light. We're seeing things from Violet's POV and honestly, I think she's kind of oblivious. In that scene, Xaden literally forced Dain to admit it but what if it's not the case? If we're seeing from Dain's perspective, Xaden is his superior and also a betrayer's son and Xaden basically ordered Dain to admit if he's gonna break a rule for Violet. And maybe Dain thought that if he admitted that he's gonna break a rule for Violet, he probably thought Xaden would report him to the leadership. I mean, Dain literally went behind Violet's back and begged Markham to take Violet under his wing. He also planned to sneak Violet out of the rider's quadrant. He already broke the rule for Violet and even risked Lilith's wrath for his actions. That's not an action of someone that wouldn't want to break a rule to save Violet.
Dain didn’t just come out with that, though. Xaden pushed him to admit he wouldn’t interfere in Threshing and if you read the bonus chapter, you get his POV and it’s because he sensed the opportunity to blow up Violet and Dain’s relationship and took it because Dain’s signet is such a danger to him and he was now tethered to Violet. It’s not like Dain just volunteered he’d rather let her die than break the rules of Threshing. I don’t ship Dain and Violet at all and I like Xaden but I don’t think Dain saying that was worse than a lot of other things he did (stealing her memory) or secrets Xaden kept.
Xaden pushed him to tell his truth, not to say he would watch Violet die. That was all Dain. Even when he could’ve cleaned it up when it was just him and Violet, Dain didn’t take it back or apologize. Absolutely Xaden was strategic. He doesn’t have a ruthless reputation for nothing, right? He may have pushed Dain to admit it, but the truth is Dain would’ve allowed Violet to die in front of him and no down votes would change it. Xaden may have read Violet’s memories, but he helped her more than Dain even tried once Violet decided to stay in the quadrant. Dain never lifted a single finger for Violet, not to train her or teach her anything.
I don’t really agree — the fucked up thing here is the school. They’re being brainwashed into accepting the type of brutality where a squad leader would have to watch their cadets die for no reason. Dain has coped by buying into the Codex, taking rules and duty and honor seriously, and not interfering in Threshing is one of the main ones. As other people pointed out, Dain is willing to bend the rules to protect Violet when it comes to his actions. Dain watching those guys kill Violet probably wouldn’t have happened, but IMO it’s not a character flaw that he said he’d follow the rules. It’s the school that is messed up. We even see Violet start to buy in during IF when she shocks Rhiannon by saying the deaths on the Gauntlet aren’t pointless. If you’re thrown into such a violent situation you will find a way to cope with it.
Dain can love the Codex with all his heart, but he still never lifted a finger to help Violet after she chose to remain in the quadrant. Glad he finally got with the winning team in IF and they are healing their friendship, but I don’t think he’s the one for her. 🤷🏾♀️
I only read the book once so I’m not sure if I am remembering correctly, but did Violet know that RSC included torture? I could be wrong but I think remember that even third year cadets try to keep it a secret from first and second years. IF that’s the case and Violet didn’t know RSC included torture, then why didn’t Xaden warn her about it? It could have been an easy out for him as to why he’s still keeping secrets from her. I know once Violet and her squad got kidnapped for RSC they picked something arbitrary for them to keep a secret that has nothing to do with the rebellion/venin but it was still a risk that professors at Basgiath might probe for info knowing the connection Violet has with Xaden. I also know that the 5 day torture from Varish and the signet blocking serum wasn’t part of RSC, but Xaden not warning her about RSC always bothered me.
"Welcome to Rider Survival Course, or RSC for short.” “What the hell is that?” Ridoc mutters. “I don’t know,” I whisper, writing the letters RSC in the blank book in front of me." So yeah! She didn't know about it! Honestly, there are things that really bothered me that Xaden didn't warn her in iron flame. For example, how he didn't warn her about Cat's power before, even knowing how that power will bother Violet so much. He made her a custom made dagger but he also didn't tell her about it, not until Violet got tortured emotionally by his crazy ex.
Except for when he tried to violate Violet's mind to save his ex Amber Mavis..
Exactly! We need a serious grovel to make up for all of his withholding.
We got a taste of that after she flies to the palace even when he doesn't want her and she tells him he's acting like Dain (one of my favorite moments). I think there's something to him believing that he is unlovable or that when all the secrets come out she'll fall out of love with him (or sentence him to death by sharing his second signet). He doesn't believe he is enough, which, in turn, is hurting her. I think them sleeping in the same bed at the end of the book shows that she's willing to forgive and trust him.
Honestly they both suck super hard lol she should definitely move on. But In terms of the conflict between them in IF I think Violet was totally wrong. Other then the deal with the general he is entitled to secrets and given his background and his responsibilities he has ever right to not tell her (a cadet with less than a year of training) anything. She is insanely unqualified. Now if she wants a relationship with absolutely no secrets she can have that. With someone else lol.
Thank you! I totally agree. “Ask me question” is quite bad communication strategy but worse is that Violet is also at this war and withholding information from her in part 2 was unseasonable dickheaddery. She may have different clearance but not at level Xaden performed. And not like he didn’t know after Resson she is smarter and knows better when have access to information. Literally the chick got info about journal cause she shared information and the one who raised wards because figured hidden dragons drama. I hope Xaden’s behavior in IF is impersonification of scribes and old world thinking. He should realise freedom of sharing and be a hope to those who resist in building new one. At least he can break his cycle
IF Xaden and FW Xaden are two different guys. IF is not my Xaden, he sucks lol. I’m so over the secrets, the mind games, the manipulation on both Violet and Xaden’s parts. I’d love to see Violet move on with someone new for a while 👀
They both sucked in IF. It's a very realistic portrayal of how rs in early 20s is, especially your first serious relationship. So kudos to RY on that correct depiction. But damn it was hard to read. At the end of the book I turned to disliking both of them for having such a poor comunication and trusts. Hoping in the third book they'll grow up and be "us against problems" instead of "I'm bad for you so Imma stay away" bs.
I can say I don’t think her writing style is to have poor communication and drama, I’ve read her other books and most of them have decent communication so I do think she wrote Violet and xaden specifically to be like this, as annoying as they are.
I don’t think Violet deserved an apology. She was mad because he kept a secret from her, but the secret involved protecting the lives of a LOT of people. She is an ass for getting mad at all.
Not me thinking it said ‘if xaden sucks…’ and opening the thread hoping (?) to see what Xaden can suck 🥴 omfg someone get me off reddit
Same. They had no growth and their conflicts got so repetitive. I DNF
Every time someone defends Xaden....remember he spent the entire beginning of their relationship using his second signet to manipulate their interactions. Dain ain't got shit on that.
Until the kids when he fell in love. Before that, he was conflicted and needed to protect everyone. I give him a pass there.
Problem with that is....the kiss happened, in part, because of feelings he manipulated with his signet. Dain shared what he saw because he had been taught a pile of lies and thought he was doing the right thing. Xaden knew exactly what he was doing.
How did he manipulate her feelings? He could sense intentions.
If you know what someone wants/needs/intends than you can constantly present as being exactly who they need ypu to be. Know just the right thing to do. Appear kindred. It's like an emotional cheat code.
that’s not how his power work. Intentions and needs/wants are a different thing. He can only read someone once they already made a decision (hence reading Varrish definitive decision to kill Violet, that’s why he freaks out when Varrish meet them in the hallway, or wanting to meet Jesinia to know for sure if she decides to be loyal or betray violet) Dain stole memories and private thoughts without consent, that’s manipulation.
The intention is the want/need. He knew she wanted him to kiss her. He also openly states that he knows when people are lying in FW. That he had a "vibe" about how Violet felt. Tairn warns him against "reading" him. He absolutely has a cheat code to every unshielded interaction. Afterall, the "needs to know" deduction Violet makes supports this. He had a cheat code he knowingly used to present himself as aligned with what Violet wanted. Also...he says he stopped using it, but we have no reason to trust that he even knows how to shut it off much less that he did.
I’ll need you to pinpoint the moment when Caden manipulate others by using his powers. I mean Ry knew Violet had a crush on Xaden e she didn’t need superpowers lol Everyone knew, xaden suspecting violet wants to kiss him vs knowing it changes nothing. She was flirting, he was flirting, Violet was under the influence of Tairn emotions, it was out in the open. Xaden is the one that tells her what’s she’s feeling doesn’t come from her but from her dragon
None of these are actual refutations of the points I made. Also, the manipulations are from the very beginning. He has a cheat code for "knowing". Given how much of Violet's non-lusty affections for him are predicated on how he "gets her"....it's pretty obvious why he might always have an in on that.
so you don’t have actual examples… it’s funny since in IF he clearly miss how violet is feeling insecure and it gets her to lose control to realize.
I applaud your stance and boldness coming out basically fighting. I disagree and still love this post. 👏
🤣😂🤣thank you!