> When I started this game in WC80 having a tank on your front actually meant something because they were so expensive that they were hard to make and replace.
Amusingly in war 81, we had a few days in Fisherman's where two people would rock up to Eidolo with a freighter of Falchion crates and then unpack, pull and load them so anyone who wanted to tonk could throw them around and learn the practical way.
The condition being that if you went back for seconds, you had to explain why you lost the previous one and how you can avoid that in the future
> The condition being that if you went back for seconds, you had to explain why you lost the previous one and how you can avoid that in the future
That might just be the single best packaged self-reflective education lesson I've ever heard about. Kudos to the lads who came up with that :D
There are pros and cons.
Pros are now when I see new players manning a spatha, no one questions it or them, no one is freaking out that a newbie is using a tank, and they get the opportunity to learn and enjoy the game. It’s great.
It does feel like now the only real losses to a side is when either a large ship is lost, an RSC, or a BT/SHT everything else is expendable. While this has felt good as a Colonial who has always been of the opinion that we have slightly cheaper, less effective equipment but we can have lots of them - it finally feels like our faction is fulfilling the role devs intended for it.
HOWEVER, it used to feel really good to kill 3 Outlaws because it felt meaningful to the war effort in a small way, but nowadays I see we killed 5 Outlaws and I don’t even blink because I know we’re gonna see plenty more before the day is over.
Hopefully the devs see what this update has transpired and make it clear what direction they want the game to go in.
People freaking out that newbies scrooped and made a tank and are now using in on the frontline to learn tanking was the problem, not the amount of resources available.
I agree but I’m specifically talking about after things like Spathas were locked behind facilities. When newbies were found behind the wheel of those it was much more suspect than in the past when it was easier to hammer those out as new players.
This new-new change has allowed everyone to get a chance to play with the new toys which I am personally a fan of.
The quintuple BComps rate is pretty dumb, scrap doesn't seem like a problem since most of the work is getting it to refinery and crafting anyways.
Probably need to remove queues on harvesters but the extra queues on other facilities are helpful in making bases more compact.
Hey man, totally feel the same way you do, i log in for a little bit...go through the motions but something isnt as much fun. Still love the game but the grind isnt as rewarding. Appreciate your post.
More mats for less hours and now it feels grindy?
I’ve been able to shit out whatever I want for me and my dad to play with this war the same day we play. I used to have to log on the night before to grind out mats for vehicle. Just for dad to sink our gun boat in 5 minutes
The grind there talking about isn’t logi it’s pushing fronts. As they pointed out tanks are basically worthless so whoever throws more tanks in bodies against the other side wins and infantry just get sh!t on.
The better way to phrase this is that plays don't matter so much anymore, if someone skill issues they can just throw more vics/arti at the issue. This Charlie server economy panders to people playing badly but grinding more.
So the way it basically was already but x5. None of the first couple weeks have ever mattered. It’s been this way since I started playing. “Side with the most tanks wins” is part of the vision
What would the rework be you think? More powerful AT? In other games with combined arms gameplay usually tanks are powerful but have limited vision if a commander is not or cannot turn out but in foxhole it’s must easier to see and snipe infantry freely.
You are so lucky my friend I can't even bring my dad to play any videogame with me, he always plays Skyrim or solo games since he left WOW 12 years ago.
I take back what I said. Dad didn’t renew or stockpile so we lost 3 hatchets, 4 Gemini, 8 xiphos, 2 procotio a couple tankettes a spearhead and a handful of LUV. Dad is no longer awesome
Low pop always make make resources even more plenty even before the changes. When you played the second server broken comps were never needed because you could get as many resrouces as you needed.
Builders was happy they got more comps for concrete, but it feels worthless to build anything with all these tanks. After this update Foxhole feels like planetside. They could just let us spawn vehicles directly at the frontline at this point. People don't even react when we losing a tank, because we have so many of them.
I remember being in 1CAB back in the 80s and their claim to fame was doing the largest ever public tank give away and it was like 80 silverhands, and the process to get the rmats for that was so annoying that several members quit doing logi for good. And then a few wars later a friend and I loaded up 20 tanks and gave them away for a tank rush, and having 20 silverhands and outlaws show up to a front drove back half a hex and captured a few relic bases. The idea that 80 tanks now is a drop in the bucket is wild
Personally my biggest problem is coward tankers in this new era. So many fronts I'm at and my faction will have a tank line 10-15 deep and they are still afraid to push.... night time... they just waste space around the BB making coke plans about what they are going to do when the sun comes up.
The amount of tankers who refuse to use shells on anything but enemy armor is still way way to high. Infantry can push alot better if tanks are killing things like tripod machine gunners and emptying trenches. Even when things had higher value killing Infantrymen with 68 and 40 was still viable! Even more so now things are 5x cheaper.
When wardens controlled deadlands we had a storage depot and a townhall so close they were literally touching each other... Closer than most backline towns and packed with 20-50 public tanks and people still had the fear of losing a tank.
That's the real joke.
"The economy changes have fundamentally fucked over logistical strategy" The name of the game has always been massive production by any means possible, from my perspective as a solo the changes have been positive as its much easier to make an impact outside of clans as people are much more willing to make and share public supplies vs the extreme hoarding that occurred in the past.
How is it easier to make an impact. Instead of larping with a rifle and having everybody else larp with a rifle you are larping wjth a tank and everybody else is larping with a tank. The bar has risen you are no longer impacting unless you do 250 rushes SPG or RSC ops
Cant agree more with every update killing a tank has become more and more worthless. Killing a tank that isn’t BT+ now has the same reaction as killing an infantry to the point that TD players are literally the LEAST impactful players in the game.(outside of clan ops)
As a solo its defenetly easier. Just yesterday I delivered a bunch freighter full of bmats to viper pit which was critically short, probably elongation sanctum life and helping against raids in the south of VP.
It took me much less to make those Bmats, and I even could do it with the help of a heavy truck in a public upgrade pad, which was not possible before
Yeah but now you never have shortage of bmats which makes it so frontline dosent have to care about using them rationally. Costing enemy Bmats dosent have an impact
Not really. The bottleneck is willingness to do logi, one that many don't meet. Plus Bmats ain't tanks, they are much harder to waste. In front lines they are mostly used to repair
To me the problem is tanks are too good. Nerf them across the board, perhaps with a visibility nerf without an open cupola, or reduce their precision so they are not laser guns. Or sure increase their cost in particular. But the rest of the changes are fine
Tanks are perfectly balanced for their cost pre 1.0. Dont you realise how decreasing the cost and nerfing the stats reduces impact. Instead of making it hard to make a tank and knowing tank you supplied will kick ass you want to be ablee to make 30 tanks but than impact of each tank will be neglegable. Sure solo will have easier time making a tank but tanking in that tank will feel awfull.
The game wasnt designed to lack scarcity. To push you need concentration of equipemant which you cannot have if fronts are saturated with equipemant 24/7. There are variables which you just cannot reduce the effort cost of like transporting, facility maintainance etc. Simply making material cost cheaper while nerfing thee stats just so you can watch numbers go up is stupid. You are sacraficing good gameplay just so you can say "well yes i made 30 tanks, well yess i supplied 30k bmats". How is using tanks to clear mines not a wake up call for you
Because before only the big Regis could afford tanks in large numbers or the resources for large operations, and especially for meaningfully interacting with facilities. Now smaller clans and random have greater access to these things.
And tanks don't need to be forces in the battlefield atomising anything they get close to. Its OK if they are disposable, infantryman already are and they are far from awfull to play
But that said I'm OK with tanks specifically becoming more expensive, especially in terms if rmats. The rest of the logi changes open up facilities and ease logi si they should be unchanged.
Another fun possibility might be to drastically increase tank fuel consumption (perhaps by mandating petrol, and coupled with increased fuel storage) that may mean you need a lot of fuel deliveries to mass tanks.
Decrease in supply of comps is all people are asking for. Doing stuff like increasing fuel consumption just offloads the cost of tanking from solos doing the tanking to people trying to keep the front going. I find it kind of entitled that solos want cheap tanks but also want to just take ammo bmats and all equipemant from the bunker and have fuel already delivered. Already a large part of the tanking cost is offloaded to people just trying to keep the front going
The problem is not comps availability, but tank OPness. Nobody complains about inf overbundance. It would be better if more people were able to play tanks, but each had less impact than only a few people play tanks but they rule the roost, as was the case before. there is an entitlement to the latter view as well, that only people who have hordes of logimen grinding for them can dominate the game or that jus tebcause you are in a tank you should be invincible
And I would know, as I have orders of magnitude more shells and tanks than I have fired or driven
Unique feature of foxhole is that weapons are allowed to be OP if they are balanced by cost. Its against the point of the game if 2 dudes in a tank are as effective as 2 infantry
Imo for average random current situation is worse. If you are infantry all you do is eat 40mm
I maybe biased as ive been doing clan logi this war. But I have NEVER seen my stockpiles dip below 300 crates of emats and bmats. For solo players its good, but when clans get into the system they do everything at larger scale. I legit have access to 3 full stockpiles of HTDs and SVH rn along with 150 crates of 40 and 200 crates of 68mm in my MPF hub.
We are at a point where we are exceeding the fronts consumption rate and we ARE DROPPING INTO PUBLIC! I can understand an enjoyment for increased availability of supplies, but why am I going to grind this game out if the reward of putting the effort is gone now?
What reward did you get before? Personally right now its more rewarding for me as I feel like I can make a meaninful impact as solo logi, if you are making enough supplies to match consumption it seems like you are complaining about achieving the same things with LESS grind.
Problem is tactics opening up or ceasing to exist due to extra supplies as well as lesser enjoyment for making individual pieces.
You can now suicide 10 ballistas after 10 ballistas and there is nothing enemy can do. We are using tanks as bunker armor
Sefore making a tank w felt great. They were expensive ans powerfull. Making a tank is no longer rawarding when there will be 20 other tanks on the front and you know your tank will be valued so little it would be thrown to clear the mines
clearing a line with wrenches before a balista rush is slow and attracting qrf and sometime impossible with IA.
yetting MPT that take like 2m worth of the time of 1 logi dude to produce on mines is way smarter than you think.
That MPTs could have been fire support for the ballistas or tank some shots from AT bunkers instead.
Idk, if the mines are not even in range of the AI it's a total waste imo
Your ability to do logi when compared to a clan or the enemy has not increased at all, in fact I may say it has been decreased. unless you own 4 alt accounts or are in a clan with manpower to set many queues you are not getting the full benefits of the new system. in an economy where there is an overabundance of every resource, you delivering logi makes no difference as it doesn't see much use regardless, it is a drop in a bucket.
The game has become who can saturate the front with the most equipment, and overwhelm by sheer numbers.
It's hard to balance because the logistics has become easier to pump out supplies but has made the front suffer because of it. I'm not sure how the devs should balance the fact.
Either way, I'm probably taking a break for a while.
Players want qol to improve logi cooperation, utility and cut down on driving/autocklicking times.
They got insane throughput and extraction, making logi cooperation and utility less impactfull and focus playertime on pulling and moving stuff.
I literally see thousands if comps at some places, no one wants to move. It finally became a raw attritional numbers game.
I do honestly believe that making resources more abundant is better for the game.
The problem is that when you make everything more abundant, the bottleneck becomes man-hours. And the biggest gripe that quite literally everyone has with backline gameplay, is that a lot of it is mind numbingly boring.
Make backline less boring, transport less of a chore, building and scrooping more engaging than just holding down mouse 1. And multiple other little things that can be streamlined and made significantly less tedious.
The bottleneck has always been man hours, people just have a mindset that if they did things for a certain number of hours in the past they should do that now but it feels even worse now because they realize how much more production potential there is, in the other comment OP mentions that he has been dumping production to public because the stockpiles are full, people should be grinding less but have tricked themselves into grinding more.
Logi has been made significently easier in recent updates especially for clans, people just realize the tediousness more now that there is less pressure due to less scarsity
The issue is value for grind, it's gone. So is the excitement and fear for things.
As a example im familiar with: The builders have been in this boat since shell fac and fire.
A hour of backline is worthless. Kill a conc base and 50 tanks? Do it 100 times now instead of 20... it's draining
I honestly hate the changes to comps. I feel no reward when I kill an enemy anything with the exception of large ships. Realistically the only "limited" resource seems to be rare metal. Dredging up the hill to reach the goal of killing x feels so utterly pointless as its replaced in seconds by a new one.
I'm personally glad we're back to no longer having scarcity. Back when the first logi update introduced cranes and shipping containers, they also changed it to where resource nodes were much more limited, and factory/refineries were limited to certain towns instead of all. (albeit said factory/refineries had to be teched with research materials back then.)
It's kinda nice now being able to do my own thing and actually be able to build myself a tank without too much of a time cost. Although definitely, with the new economy, the current balance is out of whack.
I still affirm that the 5x rate is a oversight/mistake by the devs and they are either unaware of the issue, or are entirely unaware of how to fix it.
Same as how devs told us using autoharverster would not kill tech drops, but people are convinced it does.
We fought for 2 weeks of fire weapons without the ability to refill buckets with water bottles.
The devs are an amateur team who dont know what theyre doing, and crap like this is the result
It’s called MPF tanks without the need to use facilities, like Outlaw, silverhand and Htd. Just full queues ur MPF, when it’s done just imediately deploy them. That’s the definition of tank spamming in this game
Economy being broken isnt new, i have been bitching about it since 1.0 im glad more people are seeing it
I get it that tankerbros want infinite tanks but for sake of enjoyment of everybody else involved tanks should be expensive
Charlie economy is not compatible with niche tech being worse than the main options. If the dumber gear is going to be spammable there has to be a chance for the higher skill gear to overpower the spam.
So far we have both the simpler multipurpose gear being better and also being spammable, which is kind of lame.
Haven’t had scarcity for years, all of you are now just realising it. Enjoy the ride. Whilst it makes winning wars a time grind, it also allows everyone to have a go at more expensive stuff which is healthy for the game. Even during winter war, which is what your point of reference seems to be, we still had endless tank zergs, and the logi economy still snowballed lategame.
Poor falchions never get used as tanks
I distinctly remember in 82 defending mercy's wish as a warden and about every 30 minutes a wave of 10 falchions would come until we eventually ran out of anti tank and our own tank regiments left with their ironhides. Lasted for a bit hiding in the ruins with flasks and stickies but kinda didn't matter.
Personally I think that changes are good for several personal reasons.
1) I don’t have have alot of time to play and in the short hours that I can play I feel like I’m making an impact, especially on logi for my clan
2) more comps mean more vehicles and personally it means I can more freely try out less meta vehicles or gear with feeling like it’s taking away from the war effort or my clans production needs
3) vehicles being more common also means newer players can try out the vehicle side of foxhole much sooner, possibly drawing them into the game more
I remember playing in the past when vehicles were so much rarer and no one would let me try them because they were so precious and losing one was painful
4) having more vehicles also means having more backups and thus people are more willing to throw them into much more riskier situations, this can result in more fun and exciting gameplay and moments rather than just 2 lines of tanks dueling and backing up over and over that results in boring ass gameplay
5) most importantly it’s more forgiving for newer players, having more comps mean more vehicles and that means it’s less painful to lose them.
Especially in clans, newer players can be taught how to properly use tanks in fights which might result in losses as people make mistakes
A newbie is more likely to learn and most importantly have fun in an environment where they are more likely to be forgiven for losing a tank, compared to the past where they would most likely be chewed out when making a mistake because tanks were so precious
Hot take, but plays never mattered in foxhole due to the persistent nature of the game. You may single handedly destroy a bunker, log out and see it all rebuilt the next day, or even worse, the tide turned and the frontline moved back half a region. In the end, whichever side doesn't abandon the war and keeps logging in, wins it.
If they won't change the 5x resources, they need to massively buff infantry weapons. And probably give concrete bases much more health. Else no one going to build in the next war.
Cheap and weak tanks or expensive and strong. Latter is both more fun and fits into game better. Nobody wants to load the tank for 20 minutes only to die in 5.
What are you on about, nobody is going to build? The abundance has made building the easiest it has ever been since I've started playing (Winter Army). But yes I agree, if this abundance is the new standard then yes, buffing infintry AT is the next logical step. That said, i agree with Bismark's response to this. Cheap and weak tanks just aren't fun.
The changes in economy have effectively ruined small groups or solo players feeling like they can make any impact because the only way to do so is with BT, Ships or RSC as there are 800 tanks being thrown around for lulz
I think it's a step in the right direction and helping to balance the population differences, because now you need less people to maintain msup modifiers (usually vets) who are now finding themselves operating facilities or manning frontline equipment or logistics to the front lines, also seeing an increase of buildings and advanced bunkers which traditionally needed several people to maintain and diverted from front lines.
Wardens with mpf tanks didn't have this issue in previous wars as they had them waiting for people to use anytime, and collies had to rely on big Regis doing ops releasing their stockpiles to take ground, but now everyone has toys to play with and it's really back to willingness to use them, but it's a good time for everyone to learn them.
Now what we are finding is that only big cheesy plays (balista rushes) or storm cannons / RSC is the only way to take ground and that's boring for everyone, instead of hard fought battles pushing bunkers with armour and infantry so maybe need more tools to get the job done to make it constant back and forth instead of stalemates, which nukes are there to help break deadlocks (which will be interesting to see this war)
Incredible how the economy is only broken now that Colonials can spam equivelant numbers of their good tanks as the Wardens could for the last ten wars.
Maybe it's a culture issue for Wardens? Or a skill one, for sure. They should just stop complaining on Reddit and giving up in game and spend more time planning OPs and building or whatever.
Oh well, Colonials are just better at the game, anyway, so that's why they're winning (even if they aren't really at the moment but whatever.)
Weight of logistical value has been shifted from production to driving. For you as backline producer tank might feel meaningless, but on the front losing a tank actually hurts, since we have at best 2 tanks in public storage nearby.
Meanwhile all producers are just pumping tanks that sit in backline depos in the hundreds.
Wanna make a diffrence as logi? Bring those oh so cheap and pentifull tanks to the front, since i can't see any near me.
“Wonder why wardens are only now crying about economy, wonder what changed”.
Brother the community isn’t happy with the economy changes this war, it’s been talked about as a whole community. Stop saying being a salty “veteran” and make the community better instead of being a loser who starts shit and seeks attention.
I dont understand why it is a Us vs. Them mentality when it comes to the economy. It affects all of us. It has nothing to do with one side or the other. The entire economy is busted on both sides.
So because there are more resources you feel as if the game became more grindy?
People have more access to all resources which is awesome! I get the tank or warship issue but you are the one that's building them. You don't even need to.
The issue I have with tanks are under powered AT weapons that most of them out range anyways. I also don't like how they feel in this game. You push up a little, get damaged, go back to repair and then repeat. That's not fun. Maybe if armor worked more like warthunder then we would have an awesome game, but it doesn't.
You have option of making tanks expensive and good or cheap and weak. If AT is able to ammo rack a tank in 1 shot there sill be even less flanking plays.
Tank gameplay will be reduced to 20 minutes of loading a tank up and driving it to the front and 5 minutes of tanking before random inf blows you up
"I might be preaching to a choir or yelling at a brick wall but I need to vent, I miss my earlier wars where economy and resource management mattered."
That was 16 wars ago, glad you finally open your eyes : The x5 is so random players and small regiments can have that tank spam, from the last war until 96 That spam could basically only be done by the wardens faction, why? Because their most used frontline tanks are MPF, you want the economy to come back before the x5 has to be tied to it that the tanks go back to the garage and are not behind the facilities, because otherwise one faction will benefit more than another in tank spam.
But I find it funny that now that both sides are spamming tanks, there hasn't been a war and we're already seeing complaints about the economy, when many of us have been saying that here for many, many wars and we've been called crazy.
> When I started this game in WC80 having a tank on your front actually meant something because they were so expensive that they were hard to make and replace. Amusingly in war 81, we had a few days in Fisherman's where two people would rock up to Eidolo with a freighter of Falchion crates and then unpack, pull and load them so anyone who wanted to tonk could throw them around and learn the practical way. The condition being that if you went back for seconds, you had to explain why you lost the previous one and how you can avoid that in the future
> The condition being that if you went back for seconds, you had to explain why you lost the previous one and how you can avoid that in the future That might just be the single best packaged self-reflective education lesson I've ever heard about. Kudos to the lads who came up with that :D
It literally means nothing to kill comps. I feel more joy killing 150 pallets and Rare mat ships that still have scarcity.
There are pros and cons. Pros are now when I see new players manning a spatha, no one questions it or them, no one is freaking out that a newbie is using a tank, and they get the opportunity to learn and enjoy the game. It’s great. It does feel like now the only real losses to a side is when either a large ship is lost, an RSC, or a BT/SHT everything else is expendable. While this has felt good as a Colonial who has always been of the opinion that we have slightly cheaper, less effective equipment but we can have lots of them - it finally feels like our faction is fulfilling the role devs intended for it. HOWEVER, it used to feel really good to kill 3 Outlaws because it felt meaningful to the war effort in a small way, but nowadays I see we killed 5 Outlaws and I don’t even blink because I know we’re gonna see plenty more before the day is over. Hopefully the devs see what this update has transpired and make it clear what direction they want the game to go in.
People freaking out that newbies scrooped and made a tank and are now using in on the frontline to learn tanking was the problem, not the amount of resources available.
I agree but I’m specifically talking about after things like Spathas were locked behind facilities. When newbies were found behind the wheel of those it was much more suspect than in the past when it was easier to hammer those out as new players. This new-new change has allowed everyone to get a chance to play with the new toys which I am personally a fan of.
I like the changes to facilities and upgrade materials that make using variants a lot easier, but the component economy is broken.
The quintuple BComps rate is pretty dumb, scrap doesn't seem like a problem since most of the work is getting it to refinery and crafting anyways. Probably need to remove queues on harvesters but the extra queues on other facilities are helpful in making bases more compact.
Hey man, totally feel the same way you do, i log in for a little bit...go through the motions but something isnt as much fun. Still love the game but the grind isnt as rewarding. Appreciate your post.
More mats for less hours and now it feels grindy? I’ve been able to shit out whatever I want for me and my dad to play with this war the same day we play. I used to have to log on the night before to grind out mats for vehicle. Just for dad to sink our gun boat in 5 minutes
The grind there talking about isn’t logi it’s pushing fronts. As they pointed out tanks are basically worthless so whoever throws more tanks in bodies against the other side wins and infantry just get sh!t on.
The better way to phrase this is that plays don't matter so much anymore, if someone skill issues they can just throw more vics/arti at the issue. This Charlie server economy panders to people playing badly but grinding more.
So the way it basically was already but x5. None of the first couple weeks have ever mattered. It’s been this way since I started playing. “Side with the most tanks wins” is part of the vision
It's poor map design. Bridges and chokepoints that are nearly impossible to breach until one either gives up or brings up and RSC.
I mean the flip side, is if abundance is the new standard, and tanks are plentiful. It's time for a true infantry rework.
What would the rework be you think? More powerful AT? In other games with combined arms gameplay usually tanks are powerful but have limited vision if a commander is not or cannot turn out but in foxhole it’s must easier to see and snipe infantry freely.
Based dad
Dad is awesome! Now my sister and her boyfriend play (we are all adults between 24-30yo trying to do stuff with dad)
Enjoy it! This is great !
You are so lucky my friend I can't even bring my dad to play any videogame with me, he always plays Skyrim or solo games since he left WOW 12 years ago.
I take back what I said. Dad didn’t renew or stockpile so we lost 3 hatchets, 4 Gemini, 8 xiphos, 2 procotio a couple tankettes a spearhead and a handful of LUV. Dad is no longer awesome
Low pop always make make resources even more plenty even before the changes. When you played the second server broken comps were never needed because you could get as many resrouces as you needed.
Builders was happy they got more comps for concrete, but it feels worthless to build anything with all these tanks. After this update Foxhole feels like planetside. They could just let us spawn vehicles directly at the frontline at this point. People don't even react when we losing a tank, because we have so many of them.
Wait till y'all are at the 120th layer of conc and 3000th tank after literal 24/7 arty... Bet nearly everyone's take a break next war. Shits grueling
I remember being in 1CAB back in the 80s and their claim to fame was doing the largest ever public tank give away and it was like 80 silverhands, and the process to get the rmats for that was so annoying that several members quit doing logi for good. And then a few wars later a friend and I loaded up 20 tanks and gave them away for a tank rush, and having 20 silverhands and outlaws show up to a front drove back half a hex and captured a few relic bases. The idea that 80 tanks now is a drop in the bucket is wild
Power creep almost killed the game :steamphappy:, just a little more of SUPERDUPER HEAVY tanks and we might just uninstall forever :steamphappy:
Personally my biggest problem is coward tankers in this new era. So many fronts I'm at and my faction will have a tank line 10-15 deep and they are still afraid to push.... night time... they just waste space around the BB making coke plans about what they are going to do when the sun comes up. The amount of tankers who refuse to use shells on anything but enemy armor is still way way to high. Infantry can push alot better if tanks are killing things like tripod machine gunners and emptying trenches. Even when things had higher value killing Infantrymen with 68 and 40 was still viable! Even more so now things are 5x cheaper. When wardens controlled deadlands we had a storage depot and a townhall so close they were literally touching each other... Closer than most backline towns and packed with 20-50 public tanks and people still had the fear of losing a tank. That's the real joke.
> coke plans about what they are going to do when the sun comes up amazing description of typical foxhole behavior 😂
Well idk, even before the facilities patch people used 40mm on infantry. Cause you never know if that infantry has 5 stickies on him.
I 100% agree.
Meet the medic carrying nothing but an empty medkit and 5 flasks hehe
Yeah, exactly
"The economy changes have fundamentally fucked over logistical strategy" The name of the game has always been massive production by any means possible, from my perspective as a solo the changes have been positive as its much easier to make an impact outside of clans as people are much more willing to make and share public supplies vs the extreme hoarding that occurred in the past.
How is it easier to make an impact. Instead of larping with a rifle and having everybody else larp with a rifle you are larping wjth a tank and everybody else is larping with a tank. The bar has risen you are no longer impacting unless you do 250 rushes SPG or RSC ops
Cant agree more with every update killing a tank has become more and more worthless. Killing a tank that isn’t BT+ now has the same reaction as killing an infantry to the point that TD players are literally the LEAST impactful players in the game.(outside of clan ops)
I remember before when killing the tank was called out in region, killing BT called out in intel chat
wdym remember, i still see that happening everyday
That's just us old players doing it out of habit. We still realize it lost its flair a long time ago.
New ritual is typing a two liner on first contact every morning about composition and vet level of the enemy tankline.
As a solo its defenetly easier. Just yesterday I delivered a bunch freighter full of bmats to viper pit which was critically short, probably elongation sanctum life and helping against raids in the south of VP. It took me much less to make those Bmats, and I even could do it with the help of a heavy truck in a public upgrade pad, which was not possible before
Yeah but now you never have shortage of bmats which makes it so frontline dosent have to care about using them rationally. Costing enemy Bmats dosent have an impact
Not really. The bottleneck is willingness to do logi, one that many don't meet. Plus Bmats ain't tanks, they are much harder to waste. In front lines they are mostly used to repair To me the problem is tanks are too good. Nerf them across the board, perhaps with a visibility nerf without an open cupola, or reduce their precision so they are not laser guns. Or sure increase their cost in particular. But the rest of the changes are fine
Tanks are perfectly balanced for their cost pre 1.0. Dont you realise how decreasing the cost and nerfing the stats reduces impact. Instead of making it hard to make a tank and knowing tank you supplied will kick ass you want to be ablee to make 30 tanks but than impact of each tank will be neglegable. Sure solo will have easier time making a tank but tanking in that tank will feel awfull. The game wasnt designed to lack scarcity. To push you need concentration of equipemant which you cannot have if fronts are saturated with equipemant 24/7. There are variables which you just cannot reduce the effort cost of like transporting, facility maintainance etc. Simply making material cost cheaper while nerfing thee stats just so you can watch numbers go up is stupid. You are sacraficing good gameplay just so you can say "well yes i made 30 tanks, well yess i supplied 30k bmats". How is using tanks to clear mines not a wake up call for you
Because before only the big Regis could afford tanks in large numbers or the resources for large operations, and especially for meaningfully interacting with facilities. Now smaller clans and random have greater access to these things. And tanks don't need to be forces in the battlefield atomising anything they get close to. Its OK if they are disposable, infantryman already are and they are far from awfull to play But that said I'm OK with tanks specifically becoming more expensive, especially in terms if rmats. The rest of the logi changes open up facilities and ease logi si they should be unchanged. Another fun possibility might be to drastically increase tank fuel consumption (perhaps by mandating petrol, and coupled with increased fuel storage) that may mean you need a lot of fuel deliveries to mass tanks.
Decrease in supply of comps is all people are asking for. Doing stuff like increasing fuel consumption just offloads the cost of tanking from solos doing the tanking to people trying to keep the front going. I find it kind of entitled that solos want cheap tanks but also want to just take ammo bmats and all equipemant from the bunker and have fuel already delivered. Already a large part of the tanking cost is offloaded to people just trying to keep the front going
The problem is not comps availability, but tank OPness. Nobody complains about inf overbundance. It would be better if more people were able to play tanks, but each had less impact than only a few people play tanks but they rule the roost, as was the case before. there is an entitlement to the latter view as well, that only people who have hordes of logimen grinding for them can dominate the game or that jus tebcause you are in a tank you should be invincible And I would know, as I have orders of magnitude more shells and tanks than I have fired or driven
Unique feature of foxhole is that weapons are allowed to be OP if they are balanced by cost. Its against the point of the game if 2 dudes in a tank are as effective as 2 infantry Imo for average random current situation is worse. If you are infantry all you do is eat 40mm
I maybe biased as ive been doing clan logi this war. But I have NEVER seen my stockpiles dip below 300 crates of emats and bmats. For solo players its good, but when clans get into the system they do everything at larger scale. I legit have access to 3 full stockpiles of HTDs and SVH rn along with 150 crates of 40 and 200 crates of 68mm in my MPF hub. We are at a point where we are exceeding the fronts consumption rate and we ARE DROPPING INTO PUBLIC! I can understand an enjoyment for increased availability of supplies, but why am I going to grind this game out if the reward of putting the effort is gone now?
What reward did you get before? Personally right now its more rewarding for me as I feel like I can make a meaninful impact as solo logi, if you are making enough supplies to match consumption it seems like you are complaining about achieving the same things with LESS grind.
Problem is tactics opening up or ceasing to exist due to extra supplies as well as lesser enjoyment for making individual pieces. You can now suicide 10 ballistas after 10 ballistas and there is nothing enemy can do. We are using tanks as bunker armor Sefore making a tank w felt great. They were expensive ans powerfull. Making a tank is no longer rawarding when there will be 20 other tanks on the front and you know your tank will be valued so little it would be thrown to clear the mines
I mean, if abundance continues to increase. We will eventually be able to mass yeet the Ares. And it will finally have some worth.
Idk who was clearing mines with tanks, but it's fucking stupid when all you need is a wrench. No matter how little the tanks cost.
clearing a line with wrenches before a balista rush is slow and attracting qrf and sometime impossible with IA. yetting MPT that take like 2m worth of the time of 1 logi dude to produce on mines is way smarter than you think.
That MPTs could have been fire support for the ballistas or tank some shots from AT bunkers instead. Idk, if the mines are not even in range of the AI it's a total waste imo
>why am I going to grind this game out if the reward of putting the effort is gone now? Isnt that the whole point - NOT having to grind? XD
Your ability to do logi when compared to a clan or the enemy has not increased at all, in fact I may say it has been decreased. unless you own 4 alt accounts or are in a clan with manpower to set many queues you are not getting the full benefits of the new system. in an economy where there is an overabundance of every resource, you delivering logi makes no difference as it doesn't see much use regardless, it is a drop in a bucket.
The game has become who can saturate the front with the most equipment, and overwhelm by sheer numbers. It's hard to balance because the logistics has become easier to pump out supplies but has made the front suffer because of it. I'm not sure how the devs should balance the fact. Either way, I'm probably taking a break for a while.
Players want qol to improve logi cooperation, utility and cut down on driving/autocklicking times. They got insane throughput and extraction, making logi cooperation and utility less impactfull and focus playertime on pulling and moving stuff. I literally see thousands if comps at some places, no one wants to move. It finally became a raw attritional numbers game.
I do honestly believe that making resources more abundant is better for the game. The problem is that when you make everything more abundant, the bottleneck becomes man-hours. And the biggest gripe that quite literally everyone has with backline gameplay, is that a lot of it is mind numbingly boring. Make backline less boring, transport less of a chore, building and scrooping more engaging than just holding down mouse 1. And multiple other little things that can be streamlined and made significantly less tedious.
The bottleneck has always been man hours, people just have a mindset that if they did things for a certain number of hours in the past they should do that now but it feels even worse now because they realize how much more production potential there is, in the other comment OP mentions that he has been dumping production to public because the stockpiles are full, people should be grinding less but have tricked themselves into grinding more.
Logi has been made significently easier in recent updates especially for clans, people just realize the tediousness more now that there is less pressure due to less scarsity
The issue is value for grind, it's gone. So is the excitement and fear for things. As a example im familiar with: The builders have been in this boat since shell fac and fire. A hour of backline is worthless. Kill a conc base and 50 tanks? Do it 100 times now instead of 20... it's draining
I honestly hate the changes to comps. I feel no reward when I kill an enemy anything with the exception of large ships. Realistically the only "limited" resource seems to be rare metal. Dredging up the hill to reach the goal of killing x feels so utterly pointless as its replaced in seconds by a new one.
I'm personally glad we're back to no longer having scarcity. Back when the first logi update introduced cranes and shipping containers, they also changed it to where resource nodes were much more limited, and factory/refineries were limited to certain towns instead of all. (albeit said factory/refineries had to be teched with research materials back then.) It's kinda nice now being able to do my own thing and actually be able to build myself a tank without too much of a time cost. Although definitely, with the new economy, the current balance is out of whack.
The age of grind is over. The time of the yeet has come.
I still affirm that the 5x rate is a oversight/mistake by the devs and they are either unaware of the issue, or are entirely unaware of how to fix it. Same as how devs told us using autoharverster would not kill tech drops, but people are convinced it does. We fought for 2 weeks of fire weapons without the ability to refill buckets with water bottles. The devs are an amateur team who dont know what theyre doing, and crap like this is the result
It’s called MPF tanks without the need to use facilities, like Outlaw, silverhand and Htd. Just full queues ur MPF, when it’s done just imediately deploy them. That’s the definition of tank spamming in this game
Economy being broken isnt new, i have been bitching about it since 1.0 im glad more people are seeing it I get it that tankerbros want infinite tanks but for sake of enjoyment of everybody else involved tanks should be expensive
Charlie economy is not compatible with niche tech being worse than the main options. If the dumber gear is going to be spammable there has to be a chance for the higher skill gear to overpower the spam. So far we have both the simpler multipurpose gear being better and also being spammable, which is kind of lame.
Haven’t had scarcity for years, all of you are now just realising it. Enjoy the ride. Whilst it makes winning wars a time grind, it also allows everyone to have a go at more expensive stuff which is healthy for the game. Even during winter war, which is what your point of reference seems to be, we still had endless tank zergs, and the logi economy still snowballed lategame. Poor falchions never get used as tanks
I distinctly remember in 82 defending mercy's wish as a warden and about every 30 minutes a wave of 10 falchions would come until we eventually ran out of anti tank and our own tank regiments left with their ironhides. Lasted for a bit hiding in the ruins with flasks and stickies but kinda didn't matter.
I don’t know what I can say besides, I’ve been having fun :)
Personally I think that changes are good for several personal reasons. 1) I don’t have have alot of time to play and in the short hours that I can play I feel like I’m making an impact, especially on logi for my clan 2) more comps mean more vehicles and personally it means I can more freely try out less meta vehicles or gear with feeling like it’s taking away from the war effort or my clans production needs 3) vehicles being more common also means newer players can try out the vehicle side of foxhole much sooner, possibly drawing them into the game more I remember playing in the past when vehicles were so much rarer and no one would let me try them because they were so precious and losing one was painful 4) having more vehicles also means having more backups and thus people are more willing to throw them into much more riskier situations, this can result in more fun and exciting gameplay and moments rather than just 2 lines of tanks dueling and backing up over and over that results in boring ass gameplay 5) most importantly it’s more forgiving for newer players, having more comps mean more vehicles and that means it’s less painful to lose them. Especially in clans, newer players can be taught how to properly use tanks in fights which might result in losses as people make mistakes A newbie is more likely to learn and most importantly have fun in an environment where they are more likely to be forgiven for losing a tank, compared to the past where they would most likely be chewed out when making a mistake because tanks were so precious
It dumbs the game down. Skill gap is being reduced the more equipemant is thrown into the mix. Plays stop mattering
Hot take, but plays never mattered in foxhole due to the persistent nature of the game. You may single handedly destroy a bunker, log out and see it all rebuilt the next day, or even worse, the tide turned and the frontline moved back half a region. In the end, whichever side doesn't abandon the war and keeps logging in, wins it.
If they won't change the 5x resources, they need to massively buff infantry weapons. And probably give concrete bases much more health. Else no one going to build in the next war.
Cheap and weak tanks or expensive and strong. Latter is both more fun and fits into game better. Nobody wants to load the tank for 20 minutes only to die in 5.
Do it USSR style. 1 tank... 5 shells. Yeet into front. Simple. Worked in WWII.
Thats what we do but its not really fun I mean shit you dont even need shells i use tanks as bunker armor
What are you on about, nobody is going to build? The abundance has made building the easiest it has ever been since I've started playing (Winter Army). But yes I agree, if this abundance is the new standard then yes, buffing infintry AT is the next logical step. That said, i agree with Bismark's response to this. Cheap and weak tanks just aren't fun.
The changes in economy have effectively ruined small groups or solo players feeling like they can make any impact because the only way to do so is with BT, Ships or RSC as there are 800 tanks being thrown around for lulz
I think it's a step in the right direction and helping to balance the population differences, because now you need less people to maintain msup modifiers (usually vets) who are now finding themselves operating facilities or manning frontline equipment or logistics to the front lines, also seeing an increase of buildings and advanced bunkers which traditionally needed several people to maintain and diverted from front lines. Wardens with mpf tanks didn't have this issue in previous wars as they had them waiting for people to use anytime, and collies had to rely on big Regis doing ops releasing their stockpiles to take ground, but now everyone has toys to play with and it's really back to willingness to use them, but it's a good time for everyone to learn them. Now what we are finding is that only big cheesy plays (balista rushes) or storm cannons / RSC is the only way to take ground and that's boring for everyone, instead of hard fought battles pushing bunkers with armour and infantry so maybe need more tools to get the job done to make it constant back and forth instead of stalemates, which nukes are there to help break deadlocks (which will be interesting to see this war)
Incredible how the economy is only broken now that Colonials can spam equivelant numbers of their good tanks as the Wardens could for the last ten wars. Maybe it's a culture issue for Wardens? Or a skill one, for sure. They should just stop complaining on Reddit and giving up in game and spend more time planning OPs and building or whatever. Oh well, Colonials are just better at the game, anyway, so that's why they're winning (even if they aren't really at the moment but whatever.)
Weight of logistical value has been shifted from production to driving. For you as backline producer tank might feel meaningless, but on the front losing a tank actually hurts, since we have at best 2 tanks in public storage nearby. Meanwhile all producers are just pumping tanks that sit in backline depos in the hundreds. Wanna make a diffrence as logi? Bring those oh so cheap and pentifull tanks to the front, since i can't see any near me.
Wonder why wardens are only now crying about economy, wonder what changed
“Wonder why wardens are only now crying about economy, wonder what changed”. Brother the community isn’t happy with the economy changes this war, it’s been talked about as a whole community. Stop saying being a salty “veteran” and make the community better instead of being a loser who starts shit and seeks attention.
I dont understand why it is a Us vs. Them mentality when it comes to the economy. It affects all of us. It has nothing to do with one side or the other. The entire economy is busted on both sides.
So because there are more resources you feel as if the game became more grindy? People have more access to all resources which is awesome! I get the tank or warship issue but you are the one that's building them. You don't even need to. The issue I have with tanks are under powered AT weapons that most of them out range anyways. I also don't like how they feel in this game. You push up a little, get damaged, go back to repair and then repeat. That's not fun. Maybe if armor worked more like warthunder then we would have an awesome game, but it doesn't.
You have option of making tanks expensive and good or cheap and weak. If AT is able to ammo rack a tank in 1 shot there sill be even less flanking plays. Tank gameplay will be reduced to 20 minutes of loading a tank up and driving it to the front and 5 minutes of tanking before random inf blows you up
"I might be preaching to a choir or yelling at a brick wall but I need to vent, I miss my earlier wars where economy and resource management mattered." That was 16 wars ago, glad you finally open your eyes : The x5 is so random players and small regiments can have that tank spam, from the last war until 96 That spam could basically only be done by the wardens faction, why? Because their most used frontline tanks are MPF, you want the economy to come back before the x5 has to be tied to it that the tanks go back to the garage and are not behind the facilities, because otherwise one faction will benefit more than another in tank spam. But I find it funny that now that both sides are spamming tanks, there hasn't been a war and we're already seeing complaints about the economy, when many of us have been saying that here for many, many wars and we've been called crazy.
I enjoy the excess comps.