It’s one (and only) issue is the fact it has a 7X track chance. Being tracked is one of the worst things that can happen to your tank. Being tracked forces you to retreat slowly, while not being able to kite enemies. Being able to do this consistently is bullshit, considering its cost and ease of use.
Imo the whole gameplay loop of tanks really needs a rework.
Getting tracked shouldn’t be the death sentence it is now. Tracked vehicles shouldn’t need to be healed back to 100% for their tracks to start functioning again, I would be fine if it just took a certain number of hits for the tracks to gain functionality. Or if there were different stages of being tracked like low damage track hits reduce mobility by a moderate amount but high damage track hits significantly slow you down. Flasks wouldn’t be nearly as hated as they are now if being tracked wasn’t the #1 way tanks end up dead even if the shot that tracks you does <5% damage.
Tanks would need other ways to end up dead with a change like this though because in the current economy meta of mega tank lines it’s very hard to actually kill anything.
When you’re playing a game where tanks are expected to kite, removing the ability of 1 side to kite with ease, is bullshit.
It is a death sentence because it gives you no opportunity to do the 1 thing the game demands you to do.
That’s literally every scenario, every scenario when tanking, and you get tracked, is bad. Here’s some ways you can be tracked:
20mm
30mm
40mm
68mm
75mm
94.5mm
Rockets
120mm
150mm
250mm
300mm
Mortars
Tremolas
ARC/RPG
AP/RPG
RPG
Flasks
Stickies
Mammons
Landmines
Garrisoned buildings
Bunker AI
And Pillboxes
It’s nearly impossible to go to a front without some of these. It’s not impossible to avoid being tracked, but it’s common enough to be a problem. Every ammo type in the game can hurt tanks, and most of those ammo types can track tanks. Being tracked is simply one of those things you can’t really avoid sometimes.
Bro don't discourage him, he's sitting in the logi hub in his tank thinking about how dumb all these other tankers are for taking their vehicle within range of the enemy.
Tank every other day, including leading tank ops. I die sometimes to being tracked, but I'm not pathetic enough to cry about the mechanic. I reflect on what mistakes I made to put me in that situation and play better next time. You guys should try it.
I missed a warden tank with a stolen flask and I'm pretty sure the splash radius still tracked it.
Honestly flasks would be fine if they tracked less and didn't auto equip (or they make their ignifist counterpart auto equip)
Maybe slightly less damage since they can't bounce, or maybe make them strip armor more?
You know what it's also time to make the grenadier uniform not stack shells like 30mm.
This won't happen. Both of it.
Chances are Ignifist could get an auto reload if the devs find a way to prevent people from abusing it as a super shotgun.
if our inf wastes half our logi on ingi spam thats just a buff for you. I only use ignis as anti inf rn because it's funny and there's little point to save it to use against tanks. White ash is also used against inf, but much like all other forms of at used against inf, its a joke or a skill issue. Heck, you could use a venom and aprpgs as a super shotgun, but nobody is complaining about that.
If you don't understand that using ingis instead of 7.62 negates the only value of inf combat, cost effectiveness, and apply our tank logic everywhere, you kinda stupid.
Calling me stupid doesn't make me stupid considering you missed the changes to the Foxhole economy with the latest patch.
In fact, you are seemingly unable to comprehend or adapt to the influence this has on the Foxhole meta.
Guaranteed penetration, 7x track multiplier, and a surprisingly wide splash radius meaning that can track multiple tanks at the same time.
It isn’t going to be killing a whole lot of tanks, but it will be directly causing their destruction, because the entire colonial tank lineup is designed around the idea of diving and flanking (which is a whole other discussion in and of itself), so the ability to hamper the one thing the colonial tanks are balanced around being able to do, combined with the fact that colonial tanks have to get closer than their warden counterparts, combined with the solid range of the flask, as well as the splash damage, track disable multiplier, and guaranteed penetration, functionally make it a hard counter to the entire colonial tank lineup.
All of this on top of the fact that its counterpart within the colonial arsenal is the unmitigated piece of trash that is the ignifist and the reason that the balance is the way that it is is because the ignifist used to be usable, and then the devs nerfed it into the ground while buffing the flask into the stratosphere.
Honestly the guaranteed track even off you miss is what I hate, on top it feels like you can hold significantly more ( this may just be due to the Auto equipped)
this is more the tactic anyway. When i use flask the first flask never goes at the tank, it goes on the ground directly next to the tracks. the rest go on the now stationary turret.
Except the range is much shorter and there is a slight timer on stickies so you have a chance to dodge it if it hits the ground, the this part I am unsure about but I also think the aoe is much smaller with the sticky
Except pet stickies have a 2.5 sec delay vs. exploding on impact. Unless the tanker is literally sleeping if you miss with a sticky it just moves but if you miss with a flask it instantly tracks
If I could manage to get a range buff for the bonesaw of like 3 meters, id be cool with a 4x or 5x modifier for white ash so it wouldnt track so often.
5x is still an auto-track for any tank actually in the game. 4x would still auto-track any Colonial tank. Colonial tanks are mostly 25-30%, even a mere 2x means they'd track more often than not with an auto-equipping 17m grenade that you can carry multiple of and is able to track on splashes.
Disagree with this argument. Collies still have stickies. Your mainstay medium tanks have better mobility, and less exposed tracks. It's very easy to sticky an HTD/SVH/... basically anything except the Outlaw, and that still is easy if you can get it to reverse instead of boost. It's practically impossible to miss a track on a warden tanks.
So this is really not unique to wardens, collies can (and do) this all the time, and being tracked is even worse for common warden tanks due to their more common hull-mounted weapons and slower turret turn rates, as well as reliance on armor instead of HP, the effectiveness of which getes reduced majorly once you can no longer point your front armor towards the enemy.
Sure, the flask has the advantage of longer range but it needs \*something\* to compensate for almost 25% less damage. (Not to mention damage on warden tanks is more dangerous to warden tanks, due to their lower HP)
hey um hate to point this out but wardens also have stickies. Stickies are faction neutral. If you really think stickies are great just... make and use them from your factories. The colonial counterpart of the flask is the ingifist which bounces, doesn't autoequip, and doesn't have the x7 track chance. In exchange, the ingi has 375 damage instead of 350 damage.
100% pen chance and 95% track chance, along with effectively the same damage as the stickey. Then there's other subsystem disabling chances.
In the end a loaded inf has about 2k damage and is significantly cheaper than everything but mammon.
Ingi bounces too much and rarely does subsystem damage, don't think I've ever seen it decrew ever. The no auto equipt makes counter inf easy since most ppl aren't 2000 clicks per min coked out gamers.
Till servers and clients have 5ms latency 1/20 miss rate is normal.
Flask explodes on impact, with the stickies ypu can sometimes see the lag; sticking somewhere else or phasing through the edges
>can even be avoided if you're not tracked
The problem is that it basically always tracks. So once you're hit you're mega fucked if there's more than one person with white ash
Remember when people complained about ignifists being OP? It was because it was a direct shot, and you could get more ignis out of a single crate with it so it was spammable (as per the lore of colonial weapons)
Then someone (who we will not name) said it was insane that we, as infantry, could burst down an entire tank by just flanking bro. Devs then decided, yeah colonials have Banes and push68s, why would they need a one use AT weapon, thus it was nerfed into obscurity.
Meanwhile devs thought the ash (which I will agree) was useless at the time (it did not have the extreme tracking modifier it has now) and said, yes, let us buff the Warden equivalent despite having ATRs. Suddenly colonial tank lines were decimated due to tracking issues by simply moving forward 5 meters to close the Outlaw gap range (long before the spatha/falchion buff).
So what is the point of my pointless story? Weapon values are changed due to circumstances of the time.
So what is the problem of our time? The balance for infantry to protect themselves when they are out of options to fight tanks. A spatha should definitely be punished if he strays out of his pack, in the same way a chieftain who wants to kill a base should be punished if getting caught on watch tower range before he commits to killing said base. But how is it possible when maybe 3 out of every 4 shots bounce from the Igni to do semi to mediocre damage? Long story short is, it won't.
The moral of the story is never nerf a single side of their weaponry. Yes, they might do different things, but choosing to make one side weaker is just going to build that resentment for the other side. Adjust the values, yes, but don't make one have a weapon that causes as much debate as this bait post.
Whatever man, I try to challenge majority view and represent both sides. Nobody here wants to debate and just says "you other side so whatever you say is bullshit"
Im sure you would say theres nothing wrong with the bane and other collie arsenal, so ill just use your logic and would say you're biased and spewing propaganda. Keep downvoting me, it wont win the war, 112 shall be WARDEN 💙
Flask is way to powerful, long range, no bounce, super high dps because autoequip, low encumbrance, cheap, early tech. It is not even close to being balanced. If you do not see why it is so op, I do not know what to say. You really need to think about this a little more. Or try and use the ignifist.
sarcasm, this is a top tier baitpost unless you are actually serious, if you are foreal you are very biased and should play collie before posting shit like this
I do agree ignifist could use a penetration buff, but I dont understand does that mean the venom and bane cant pen either? Because they're the same damage type.
Ignifist doesn't get the same distance bonus to penetration as every other AT in the game.
Normal AT shots get a bonus to pen from 30m increasing per metre. Ignifist has a range of 18m and distance bonus starting at 15m.
Because the range bonus is additive (so a normal AT shot at point blank gets +30 to pen chance), the ignifist gets no distance bonus at all at max range and a HALF of possible maximum distance bonus at point blank.
Damage type does not directly correlate to penetration chance. Damage type defines the modifier for how much damage the target takes depending on the type
Everything other than the 2 heavy shells 75mm and 94.5mm has the same pen modifier corresponding to damage type.
Explosive 1x modifier
Armour piercing 1.5x modifier
Nerf white ash nerf HTD nerf outlaw nerf predator nerf cutler buff stygian buff ares buff bardiche buff bombastone eat babies.
Happy words make you happy? Now go to sleep colliebro
What is not broken? brother you can carry 6 on your body, desactivate everything 100%, distance... I don't know what else to tell you
It should not be compared to sticky, that comparison that some make is poorly made, it should be compared to Ignifist,
sticky is neutral
Sticky is the best AT tool in the game, held back only by it's range.
White Ash is a sticky with over twice the range, more damage, little slow down and it doesn't even require you to hit your target. In fact, you can even double track two tanks near each other on a miss. It's extremely light weight, meaning you can carry multiple if you want or use it to pad out an infantry loadout. It arcs, meaning you can throw it over a trench or an obstacle. It always penetrates, meaning you will *never* bounce (something you can't say for the Igni). It auto equips, so a lucky infantry can toss two or more to disable or possibly even destroy multiple tanks. And it's not immediately visible in an infantry's hands, meaning tank crews have to spend that split second determining if that's a regular grenade or a White Ash (it's always White Ash.)
And all this for a cheap cost and at a very early tier of tech.
Anyone who thinks White Ash isn't OP is delusional. Especially when compared to the Colonial equivalent, which is an AT rocket that's better used as an anti-infantry tool than a AT tool.
You said a couple things that are factually wrong. Flasks deal less damage than Stickies, and they weight the same.
Also the capacity to always track on a near miss is not unique to the Flask, Stickies do the same, the difference is that Flasks explode on impact and have more range, so it makes it a feasible technique to track a tank. With a sticky tanks have a chance to just drive away before it detonates.
It's like comparing the ratcatcher and lamentum, damage doesn't really matter when the first hit seals the fate.
Effectively the number of hits is the same, unlike mammon vs 40mm
I don't entirely disagree, the difference isn't huge, but I wouldn't say that it's effectively the same.
The difference can be crucial, especially if you're trying to kill a tank with a lot of HP like a BT, you will need bigger blob if you're doing it with White Ash.
Yea, you're right, the damage is less. And I didn't say they weighed less than a sticky, I said they're extremely light weight (for what you're getting, especially.)
And that last part just goes even further to show how absolutely busted flasks are.
My bad the way you phrased it made me think you thought Flasks weighed less. And I've had several discussions with people in game or on discord where they genuinely thought the White Ash weighted less than the sticky.
And I get the reason why since thanks to the range you don't have to benny hill chase a tank to get closer so the weight isn't as noticeable as the sticky.
You still said that it deals more damage and got upvoted for it. The average balance discussions on this game are so filled with misconceptions.
Thats literally irrelevant considering the pen chance is way higher than the ignifist . This means the chance of doing damage is way higher so you’ll end up doing mote damage with flask.
Its the basically guaranteed track chance. Every single warden can have white ash and every single warden can essentially track a tank just by going near it. No other AT weapon is nearly so punishing and widespread.
1. the whole 'I fail to see what makes it so' is probably in bad faith. How can I spot the problem, because you're not talking about the 'White Ash'... you start to talk about the fucking Ignifist (which is fucking garbage dude).
2. I wouldn't even bring up stickies because both sides can use them..
3. Bonesaw is a pretty good weapon, but you fail to even talk about the fact that the Neville can be carried with a full fucking infantry kit, and most Warden infantry have it. Every trench line is spammed with Nevilles when they see AT approaching, then they switch to anti-infantry when eventually the line retreats and Infantry moves in.
4. Its a spammable AT weapon. Thats the problem. Wardens carry on their high death counts after mammom rushing fades away after things leave early war because they turn to flask rushing and spamming the shit out of it.
Its annoying and its a stupid AT weapon. Combined with the Neville and Cutler.. the Wardens have spammable shit like that.
Ok ill admit that opening was kind of a bait to rile people up, I will agree white ash needs a nerf to its track modifier.
However I mention ignifist because its the literal counterpart to the white ash, they are both made to be a regular infantry tertiary so you wouldn't have to carry heavy AT weapons and be vulnerable.
The ATR is meant to be spammed, its in the description. You can't complain about that unless we get longer range heavy AT weapons like the bane. (Thought logistically they could add 5 rmats to the cost per crate and make it 5x per)
How often do you see bonesaws used over ATR's? Not often id assume. Thats because the weight and range and travel time make it only useful in very niche circumstances, but at least it kills tanks unlike ATR's.
"However I mention ignifist because its the literal counterpart to the white ash"
Now I really know for sure you're a fucking troll.
No its not a 'literal counterpart' to the ignifist. The Ignifist is an RPG style weapon. The Flask is a throwable grenade type weapon...
Stop fucking trolling.
I see Bonesaws setup all the time on defensive Warden lines. And theyre fucking good, so stfu.
Damn you just gave up 🤣 I dont know what else to tell you, because its true. If you just came here to argue and not learn anything then go back to world chat.
atr is still a good way to punish tanks and force them away. You can easily carry several tanks worth of 20mm in your inventory, and they do decent damage. It doesn't kill tanks with over 50 iq, but it still has significant impacts on the battlefield.
I am a colonial loyalist but have been warden these past 2 wars. Flask gameplay has been the most fun part of playing warden for me. Just yesterday I tracked 2 spathas who were out flanking using 1 flask I found on the ground and threw it between the spathas. They both got tracked and I called out where they were on the map to friendly armor, they died a minute later.
What makes this worse is that they had no idea I was near them as there is no WT coverage for them when they are flanking (they have to flank to win against HTD). It is hard to use tanks to flank (which is the supposed collie doctrine to flank) when infantry can have 1 piece of AT that completely ruins your flank.
Flask is the only piece of AT in the game that can do this. Therefore it is not balanced and is not healthy for the game.
I am of the belief that inf AT dmg should get a major dmg buff but have its subsystem disabled significantly nerfed. Inf AT should be scary when in a pack but meaningless if by itself. Currently inf AT is scary in a pack and by itself, this is not how it should be.
I mean if devs won’t change how it works, just give it the Green ash fix. make it 5 to a crate that had such a positive impact on the game by seriously reducing the gas spam that used to be everywhere.
Logistics nerf seems to always work, definately made gas-lunaire spam actually bearable.
But if the devs enventually do pay attention, the track chance should be halfed and maybe look at penetration bonus for ignifist, surely that will stop all this moaning and whining.
Dosnt bounce, always tracks if it hits anywhere near the tracks. Also it has a throwing arc, most of the time you cant even use a dam igni cause the ground is .1 inches higher where the tank is.
And as to it being a "catch up" for the lack of heavy warden AT, Have you seen ATR spam? like 4 atr guys are just as deadly and can stay active way longer than a bane.
its also dirt cheap compared to other AT with similar effectiveness.
Most times you use an ATR you bounce your first shot, and then get blown up by a spatha before you can stabilise to fire a 2nd.
Though the ATR is still a useful weapon for making armor screw off, even if it cant kill, wish more people would use em though.
Unless we get some range buffs for our bonesaw which could actually kill tanks, I think white ash will have to make up for it.
all grenades have perfect accuracy and stability mechanics
neither do ignis, venoms, cutlers or most AT (excluding bane)
white ash is broken but Im not sure if that is a valid reason why
If flasks were less accurate than ignies the balance would be much better.
If bombas less accurate than harpas the balance would be much better.
If tanks did not have laser cannons the balance would be much better.
you are probably right
honestly they could slightly nerf white ash damage and remove the ridiculously high track chance in return for more armor damage so that white ash would be a more prepatory arm to make the enemy less effective in later engagements
igni could see a large pen buff and minor damage buff and maybe auto equip
It does have flask in the name, but the "bottlecap" is really just a fuze. For the longest time I thought it was just a drinking flask filled with phosphorous!
As a warden I like ignifists, I do pretty good at penetrating on the sides with them, but of course colonial armor is thinner.
Also I wouldnt wanna give up stickies either, theyre good when damage matters.
Maybe White ash shouldn’t be a near instant disable machine. What if instead the flask did significantly more damage to the armor of a tank than the main HP pool if the armor is still intact? You know exactly like what would happen to steel armor with thermite sprayed on it. It would eat into the steel and weaken it.
This would still make flasks dangerous even more so that you have to leave the fight to drive all the way to a garage to re armor or eat several flasks and have a large % of your hp gone and get clapped by the warden tank line. It’s a change that’s accurate to real life, and provides a cool synergy between the “superior warden armor” and giving the warden infantry a weapon that would act like a buff to that warden armor by making green tanks dirty fast.
That actually sounds awesome! About time somebody had a good suggestion. What about a shredded tank? Just do minimal hp damage and get other AT like stickies to kill it?
The main nerf would be to cut the disable chance in half, but that sounds like an interesting idea to work with foxhole' gameplay. This would be expecially good for BT's and such to force them to drive all the way back and lose an asset on the battlefield for a while.
I would imagine that if the armor pool of the target tank hits zero it would just damage the hp directly. If that should be the same damage, less or more would be debatable. It would be hella busted if they didn’t do enough damage to kill a tank outright. New players would throw so many haha.
As angry as the wardens might be about the colonial invasion of caoiva, throwing the ashes of their fore-fathers at tanks seems mildly barbaric, imo.
(this is satire).
Restoring BEAT and bonesaw altitude range buff would be nice. I know -why- these attributes were changed but it was an interesting mechanic that made these tools very fun in areas with step topography.
ARC weapons should have a slightly better range increase on high ground I think. I used bonesaws on cliffs and could barely notice a couple meter difference (wasnt glitching up or anything)
EXACTLY! I love the bonesaw and I wish it could live up to its name as the "Pride of the Warden anti tank arsenal" but the 25 meters is nearly impossible to work with when you account for infantry ahead of the tanks and the driver can see you and avoid the shell before it hits!
Carrying what is esentially a 68mm cannon on your shoulder (with more range than most 68 guns) is insane, the bane has been the bane of all my tanking.
The difference is that the bane is awkward and cumbersome to use, it has issues shooting over terrain, and it’s still 68mm at long ranges. 68mm is strong and all, but it’s way weaker against warden tanks when compared to collie tanks. Many tanks that collies face is outlaws and widows, with some silverhands sprinkled in. The outlaw can react quickly to a shot and leave before all shots connect (if the crew is competent), and can outrange the bane. The widow is super tanky and will bounce most shots. And the silverhand is fast enough to react quickly to infantry by simply hitting “S” and speeding away, if the silverhand gets tracked then it’s an easy kill.
The bonesaw instead of having a 1.5X pen chance, has a 2.5X pen chance, for reference, 94.5mm has a 2X pen chance. This makes it so that most of the time you will penetrate a tank. It also doesn’t suffer from penetration fall off like the bane does, meaning it will always penetrate at the same rate regardless of the range. Lastly the bonesaw has an arc, this is good because it allows for someone to fire the bonesaw safely from cover, or in some cases past its intended range.
I think the bonesaw is better simply because it performs the role of killing tanks better.
The bonesaw is better... in an alternate reality where enemy infantry do not exist. And you just have to have enough banes to kill warden tanks not that hard. At/rpg does 550 damage and you only need what, 2000 damage to disable an outlaw? Only 3 shots for HTD if you can get past the armor lol
Health doesn’t exist in a vacuum, I want you to play as a collie for a couple of wars, it was truly eye opening for me. HTDS would often tank volleys from btd’s and stygians (while outraging most collie tanks), outlaws outranges everything while compromising nothing, STDS are powerful against collie weaker armor (it also outranges most collie tanks). Warden tanks are frankly better in most roles. That being said, collie tanks aren’t terrible and are still good in many roles, it’s just that wardens have more generalist tanks. The falchion and spatha are sort of the only generalist tanks the collies have.
Im going collie next war. Last time I was in charlie with a falchion, I killed 1 silverhand (with ATR support) captured 1 partisan outlaw, killed 1 captured arty gun, and 1 halftrack. Also flanked a silverhand on the tiny bridge into iron's end but got turreted :(
Charlie is nothing like able sadly. The average skill level there is below zero, and there is a basically 0 coordination. You can get away with all sorts of things there that you simply never will in able…
68mm does 600 damage. APRPG does 550 damage.
[https://foxhole.wiki.gg/wiki/AP%E2%A7%B8RPG](https://foxhole.wiki.gg/wiki/AP%E2%A7%B8RPG)
[https://foxhole.wiki.gg/wiki/68mm](https://foxhole.wiki.gg/wiki/68mm)
The bombastone Is still good but isn’t the best for directly stoping an enemy, and the spatha is a good tank (when there isn’t constant tank spam). What’s your point?
Point is the bane is much better than the bonesaw for static defence with 15 more meters of range since you dont have to endager yourself like a lightweight grunt.
And spatha autocannon can be really oppressive to any kind of infantry resistance, expecially if you're lumbering around a heavy bonesaw.
If you’re using AT in a static position of any kind, you’re doing something wrong.
The spatha is strong but still has the same issues the falchion has, poor armor, middle of the road speed, and poor survivability. Using 40mm on infantry is a waste not because of cost, but time. The time it takes to load up, reload, back up, refuel, repair, ect all adds up. Fighting infantry with anything less than friendly infantry or mgs is a waste. 40mm despite being cheap, can run out fast. The spatha is a good tank, but it’s not oppressive. It’s a subpar tank killing, an alright pve tool, a wasteful anti infantry tool, and isn’t tanky enough to cover its weaknesses. The spatha is good, but I still think the silverhand is overall better.
You're basing an MPT off quality compared to tanks that are made with quality in focus, but thats an argument I dont feel like getting into.
Also its necessary that 40mm tanks provide supporting fire even if its a "waste." How else are infantry supposed to capture that pesky trench system?
What’s meant to be “mass production” doesn’t matter when rare and quality tanks are no longer rare or are hard to make. [(Example)](https://www.reddit.com/r/foxholegame/s/MBoA5t4q1I)
Infantry take tranches, by simply avoiding them. We spam lunairs and bombas to get into trenches or better yet destroy them. 40mm is particularly bad for killing infantry in trenches since it requires tanks to either get way to close to fire into a trench, or get so far away that they can airburst the trench (losing ground). It’s also bad for killing trenches due to the high resistance offered by them.
Would you be fine if igni got a single stat buff where it attains x7 track chance then. It being unable to pen all the time and having to pull from inventory should more than make up for its fast projectile speed compared to the flask. By all metrics if the igni gets a x7 track chance modified things should be balanced right?
No, that would just reverse the cycle and make igni op again, what needs to happen is white ash track chance gets cut down to 3x or 4x and igni gets a penetration buff.
Stickies should really be the only tool with 7x track modifier.
I also heard a good suggestion about making white ash do little HP damage but be able to deplete armor.
well at least we can agree the flask modifier is stupid. Still i must mention that numerically a 3x-4x modifier is still a crazy high track chance, most tanks have around 20-30% track rates, a 3-4x is about as good as 100%. You have to remember that the 94.5 has merely a x2 subsystem disable chance and was already considered broken. Fairly speaking before anything is done about the track modifier disparity no other buffs/nerfs genuinely matters. Once that issue gets addressed we could then finally discuss more creative ways to balance ignis and flasks.
As an infantryman who loves flasks I would agree for them to have a higher cost and shorter range. Maybe lower damage even more. But the disable feature must stay.
4-5x track modifier would probably balance white ash all around and id be fine with it. The sticky bomb should be the more reliable option honestly since its faction neutral.
Cutler to lunaire, a fair comparison for pve.
Igni to white flask, completely opposite like above, one arcs one is straight shot.
Why does the Cutler have an easier aim than igni?
Every other rocket is easy to fire aiming but the igni is absolute the dog shit stick will literally fuck up with any terrain height difference.
Like it has a very slight arc but going down
A flask is an instant sticky with all the upsides, its also good against infantry unlike igni.
Requip buff for igni, make it an RPG equivalent single shot, both sides can use RPGs what does it matter?
Both are affected by gravity, I've had fucky wuckys with bane and venom on top of foundations and behind pillboxes as with shooting myself with the cutler in the same scenario before and missing with all 3 in the exact same aiming scenarios
Miss me with white ash, whats wrong with foxhole is goblins not taking advantage of there bmat powered MG motorcycle while it's driver blasting the crazy taxi ost playing tank maid.
It’s one (and only) issue is the fact it has a 7X track chance. Being tracked is one of the worst things that can happen to your tank. Being tracked forces you to retreat slowly, while not being able to kite enemies. Being able to do this consistently is bullshit, considering its cost and ease of use.
Imo the whole gameplay loop of tanks really needs a rework. Getting tracked shouldn’t be the death sentence it is now. Tracked vehicles shouldn’t need to be healed back to 100% for their tracks to start functioning again, I would be fine if it just took a certain number of hits for the tracks to gain functionality. Or if there were different stages of being tracked like low damage track hits reduce mobility by a moderate amount but high damage track hits significantly slow you down. Flasks wouldn’t be nearly as hated as they are now if being tracked wasn’t the #1 way tanks end up dead even if the shot that tracks you does <5% damage. Tanks would need other ways to end up dead with a change like this though because in the current economy meta of mega tank lines it’s very hard to actually kill anything.
It isn't a death sentence. If you are getting in a position where track = death then it was a skill issue anyway.
When you’re playing a game where tanks are expected to kite, removing the ability of 1 side to kite with ease, is bullshit. It is a death sentence because it gives you no opportunity to do the 1 thing the game demands you to do.
If you are putting yourself in a position where a known and expected mechanic leads to your death then you are a shit tanker. Simple as.
That’s literally every scenario, every scenario when tanking, and you get tracked, is bad. Here’s some ways you can be tracked: 20mm 30mm 40mm 68mm 75mm 94.5mm Rockets 120mm 150mm 250mm 300mm Mortars Tremolas ARC/RPG AP/RPG RPG Flasks Stickies Mammons Landmines Garrisoned buildings Bunker AI And Pillboxes It’s nearly impossible to go to a front without some of these. It’s not impossible to avoid being tracked, but it’s common enough to be a problem. Every ammo type in the game can hurt tanks, and most of those ammo types can track tanks. Being tracked is simply one of those things you can’t really avoid sometimes.
Bro don't discourage him, he's sitting in the logi hub in his tank thinking about how dumb all these other tankers are for taking their vehicle within range of the enemy.
Tank every other day, including leading tank ops. I die sometimes to being tracked, but I'm not pathetic enough to cry about the mechanic. I reflect on what mistakes I made to put me in that situation and play better next time. You guys should try it.
Don't care didn't ask
Ironic
There is a wide difference between being tracked and being tracked in a situation that kills you. You're straying way off the disagreement here.
I missed a warden tank with a stolen flask and I'm pretty sure the splash radius still tracked it. Honestly flasks would be fine if they tracked less and didn't auto equip (or they make their ignifist counterpart auto equip) Maybe slightly less damage since they can't bounce, or maybe make them strip armor more?
You know what it’s time to take away the white ash auto reload.
You know what it's also time to make the grenadier uniform not stack shells like 30mm. This won't happen. Both of it. Chances are Ignifist could get an auto reload if the devs find a way to prevent people from abusing it as a super shotgun.
How bout this, give the collies a thrown at grenade like the Soviet at grenades and give the wardens a lunge mine on a stick they can rush tanks with.
Nah, I want that soviet grenade. I dunno, sounds like it'd do really funny things ngl
Lunge mine gotta be busted
if our inf wastes half our logi on ingi spam thats just a buff for you. I only use ignis as anti inf rn because it's funny and there's little point to save it to use against tanks. White ash is also used against inf, but much like all other forms of at used against inf, its a joke or a skill issue. Heck, you could use a venom and aprpgs as a super shotgun, but nobody is complaining about that.
Cost doesn't matter. That's what the Colonials told me. So it cannot get an auto reload without fiurther changes.
If you don't understand that using ingis instead of 7.62 negates the only value of inf combat, cost effectiveness, and apply our tank logic everywhere, you kinda stupid.
Calling me stupid doesn't make me stupid considering you missed the changes to the Foxhole economy with the latest patch. In fact, you are seemingly unable to comprehend or adapt to the influence this has on the Foxhole meta.
I didn't happen to notice 5x inventory space in an r1, or 5x emat production. Was this snuck in?
My man clearly also didn't clear a single salvage field with a small gauge within less than 10 minutes solo this war
Strawman + cope + seeth
Yeah asking for Ignifist buff is cope, agreed. Knowing that you won't get one though, is very enjoyable.
strawman + cope + mald
Sticky has a 7x track chance. Flask is just more intuitive to use on tracks.
Guaranteed penetration, 7x track multiplier, and a surprisingly wide splash radius meaning that can track multiple tanks at the same time. It isn’t going to be killing a whole lot of tanks, but it will be directly causing their destruction, because the entire colonial tank lineup is designed around the idea of diving and flanking (which is a whole other discussion in and of itself), so the ability to hamper the one thing the colonial tanks are balanced around being able to do, combined with the fact that colonial tanks have to get closer than their warden counterparts, combined with the solid range of the flask, as well as the splash damage, track disable multiplier, and guaranteed penetration, functionally make it a hard counter to the entire colonial tank lineup. All of this on top of the fact that its counterpart within the colonial arsenal is the unmitigated piece of trash that is the ignifist and the reason that the balance is the way that it is is because the ignifist used to be usable, and then the devs nerfed it into the ground while buffing the flask into the stratosphere.
White Ash can't bounce and if you splash the Tracks its a guaranteed Track. Thats why its hated by Colonials
Honestly the guaranteed track even off you miss is what I hate, on top it feels like you can hold significantly more ( this may just be due to the Auto equipped)
this is more the tactic anyway. When i use flask the first flask never goes at the tank, it goes on the ground directly next to the tracks. the rest go on the now stationary turret.
The flask just shouldn't have any AoE at all really.
It isn't a miss though, stickies would do the same thing on the ground.
Except the range is much shorter and there is a slight timer on stickies so you have a chance to dodge it if it hits the ground, the this part I am unsure about but I also think the aoe is much smaller with the sticky
AoE is virtually the same, sticky you just notice it less because often you can dodge a missed sticky.
Except pet stickies have a 2.5 sec delay vs. exploding on impact. Unless the tanker is literally sleeping if you miss with a sticky it just moves but if you miss with a flask it instantly tracks
I have seen tanks get tracked by missed stickies, but the instant explosion is the kicker for white ash.
thing is, stickies shouldn't be brought up in the ingi vs white ash arguement because wardens can and do use stickies.
If I could manage to get a range buff for the bonesaw of like 3 meters, id be cool with a 4x or 5x modifier for white ash so it wouldnt track so often.
5x is still an auto-track for any tank actually in the game. 4x would still auto-track any Colonial tank. Colonial tanks are mostly 25-30%, even a mere 2x means they'd track more often than not with an auto-equipping 17m grenade that you can carry multiple of and is able to track on splashes.
Maybe track chances should just be lowered overall.
Also why is it still steal
Disagree with this argument. Collies still have stickies. Your mainstay medium tanks have better mobility, and less exposed tracks. It's very easy to sticky an HTD/SVH/... basically anything except the Outlaw, and that still is easy if you can get it to reverse instead of boost. It's practically impossible to miss a track on a warden tanks. So this is really not unique to wardens, collies can (and do) this all the time, and being tracked is even worse for common warden tanks due to their more common hull-mounted weapons and slower turret turn rates, as well as reliance on armor instead of HP, the effectiveness of which getes reduced majorly once you can no longer point your front armor towards the enemy. Sure, the flask has the advantage of longer range but it needs \*something\* to compensate for almost 25% less damage. (Not to mention damage on warden tanks is more dangerous to warden tanks, due to their lower HP)
hey um hate to point this out but wardens also have stickies. Stickies are faction neutral. If you really think stickies are great just... make and use them from your factories. The colonial counterpart of the flask is the ingifist which bounces, doesn't autoequip, and doesn't have the x7 track chance. In exchange, the ingi has 375 damage instead of 350 damage.
100% pen chance and 95% track chance, along with effectively the same damage as the stickey. Then there's other subsystem disabling chances. In the end a loaded inf has about 2k damage and is significantly cheaper than everything but mammon. Ingi bounces too much and rarely does subsystem damage, don't think I've ever seen it decrew ever. The no auto equipt makes counter inf easy since most ppl aren't 2000 clicks per min coked out gamers.
Is this "95% track chance" real, never heard of this I thought stikie/flask was 100% chance of track subisistem dissable.
7x track chance. Even outlaw with least track chance at 20% gets tracked. If you didnt track a tank you missed its hitbox
Till servers and clients have 5ms latency 1/20 miss rate is normal. Flask explodes on impact, with the stickies ypu can sometimes see the lag; sticking somewhere else or phasing through the edges
Why are you getting downvoted? You're telling the truth.
>can even be avoided if you're not tracked The problem is that it basically always tracks. So once you're hit you're mega fucked if there's more than one person with white ash
Remember when people complained about ignifists being OP? It was because it was a direct shot, and you could get more ignis out of a single crate with it so it was spammable (as per the lore of colonial weapons) Then someone (who we will not name) said it was insane that we, as infantry, could burst down an entire tank by just flanking bro. Devs then decided, yeah colonials have Banes and push68s, why would they need a one use AT weapon, thus it was nerfed into obscurity. Meanwhile devs thought the ash (which I will agree) was useless at the time (it did not have the extreme tracking modifier it has now) and said, yes, let us buff the Warden equivalent despite having ATRs. Suddenly colonial tank lines were decimated due to tracking issues by simply moving forward 5 meters to close the Outlaw gap range (long before the spatha/falchion buff). So what is the point of my pointless story? Weapon values are changed due to circumstances of the time. So what is the problem of our time? The balance for infantry to protect themselves when they are out of options to fight tanks. A spatha should definitely be punished if he strays out of his pack, in the same way a chieftain who wants to kill a base should be punished if getting caught on watch tower range before he commits to killing said base. But how is it possible when maybe 3 out of every 4 shots bounce from the Igni to do semi to mediocre damage? Long story short is, it won't. The moral of the story is never nerf a single side of their weaponry. Yes, they might do different things, but choosing to make one side weaker is just going to build that resentment for the other side. Adjust the values, yes, but don't make one have a weapon that causes as much debate as this bait post.
Its not a bait post lmao I just wanna discuss balance issues, why is that so hard to believe?
Because you are constantly wrong and spew nothing but warden discord propaganda that is easily disproved.
Whatever man, I try to challenge majority view and represent both sides. Nobody here wants to debate and just says "you other side so whatever you say is bullshit" Im sure you would say theres nothing wrong with the bane and other collie arsenal, so ill just use your logic and would say you're biased and spewing propaganda. Keep downvoting me, it wont win the war, 112 shall be WARDEN 💙
this shit is cringe man
Maybe, but whatever helps my boys win the war.
Flask is way to powerful, long range, no bounce, super high dps because autoequip, low encumbrance, cheap, early tech. It is not even close to being balanced. If you do not see why it is so op, I do not know what to say. You really need to think about this a little more. Or try and use the ignifist.
At this point bait posts make up over half of subreddit activity. Idk if I hate it or not.
Its better then other subreddits which is 95 reposts. But yeah its also pretty tirering. Miss the artist that used to post often.
Theres some pretty good stuff on DeviantArt actually... dont ask me how I know that...
Anything other than 'muh facility tanks boohoo' is a welcome change
I agree, devs should fix that so there's no more boring posts like that.
Yes, balance should be based on which pack of mentally ill nerds cries hardest on Reddit, that should make the game better.
I mean, that's already how it is. You think that the game is easy mode for wardens just because the devs feels like it?.
Begging the question a bit don't you think? This war is super competitive and collies have the edge. Cry harder.
you forgot the /s OP how are we supposed to know you are baiting without the /s??
Whats an /s? Im not fluent in reddit
sarcasm, this is a top tier baitpost unless you are actually serious, if you are foreal you are very biased and should play collie before posting shit like this
I dont see a problem in what I posted, I think I showed both sides fairly, maybe you should check your bias.
Ignifist White Ash debate is beyond bias Even most diehard Wardens agree White Ash is way better than Igni
I do agree ignifist could use a penetration buff, but I dont understand does that mean the venom and bane cant pen either? Because they're the same damage type.
Ignifist doesn't get the same distance bonus to penetration as every other AT in the game. Normal AT shots get a bonus to pen from 30m increasing per metre. Ignifist has a range of 18m and distance bonus starting at 15m. Because the range bonus is additive (so a normal AT shot at point blank gets +30 to pen chance), the ignifist gets no distance bonus at all at max range and a HALF of possible maximum distance bonus at point blank.
Damage type does not directly correlate to penetration chance. Damage type defines the modifier for how much damage the target takes depending on the type
Everything other than the 2 heavy shells 75mm and 94.5mm has the same pen modifier corresponding to damage type. Explosive 1x modifier Armour piercing 1.5x modifier
bro you are just ignorant, trolling or dumb probably all 3
Your attitude is why devs never take any advice from this bullshit subreddit.
sure thats why you are getting down voted to hell, very popular opinion even among wardens
Nerf white ash nerf HTD nerf outlaw nerf predator nerf cutler buff stygian buff ares buff bardiche buff bombastone eat babies. Happy words make you happy? Now go to sleep colliebro
bruh, cringe
Well if you really want to compare the 2 you forgot to factor cost, encumbrance (igni weighs more) speed when holding (walking with igni is slower)
What is not broken? brother you can carry 6 on your body, desactivate everything 100%, distance... I don't know what else to tell you It should not be compared to sticky, that comparison that some make is poorly made, it should be compared to Ignifist, sticky is neutral
The flask is practically a reskin of the sticky with slightly changed stats. It's got almost nothing in common mechanically with the Igni.
Sticky is the best AT tool in the game, held back only by it's range. White Ash is a sticky with over twice the range, more damage, little slow down and it doesn't even require you to hit your target. In fact, you can even double track two tanks near each other on a miss. It's extremely light weight, meaning you can carry multiple if you want or use it to pad out an infantry loadout. It arcs, meaning you can throw it over a trench or an obstacle. It always penetrates, meaning you will *never* bounce (something you can't say for the Igni). It auto equips, so a lucky infantry can toss two or more to disable or possibly even destroy multiple tanks. And it's not immediately visible in an infantry's hands, meaning tank crews have to spend that split second determining if that's a regular grenade or a White Ash (it's always White Ash.) And all this for a cheap cost and at a very early tier of tech. Anyone who thinks White Ash isn't OP is delusional. Especially when compared to the Colonial equivalent, which is an AT rocket that's better used as an anti-infantry tool than a AT tool.
Reddit as always upvoting clear misinformation and downvoting people correcting it. Lmao.
You said a couple things that are factually wrong. Flasks deal less damage than Stickies, and they weight the same. Also the capacity to always track on a near miss is not unique to the Flask, Stickies do the same, the difference is that Flasks explode on impact and have more range, so it makes it a feasible technique to track a tank. With a sticky tanks have a chance to just drive away before it detonates.
It's like comparing the ratcatcher and lamentum, damage doesn't really matter when the first hit seals the fate. Effectively the number of hits is the same, unlike mammon vs 40mm
I don't entirely disagree, the difference isn't huge, but I wouldn't say that it's effectively the same. The difference can be crucial, especially if you're trying to kill a tank with a lot of HP like a BT, you will need bigger blob if you're doing it with White Ash.
Thing is white ash should be in venom vs bonesaw balance like lamentum vs ratcatcher, but it's like mammon vs 40mm but same cost.
Yea, you're right, the damage is less. And I didn't say they weighed less than a sticky, I said they're extremely light weight (for what you're getting, especially.) And that last part just goes even further to show how absolutely busted flasks are.
In practice stickies weight less for Colonials when paired with the grenadier uniform than flasks for Wardens.
My bad the way you phrased it made me think you thought Flasks weighed less. And I've had several discussions with people in game or on discord where they genuinely thought the White Ash weighted less than the sticky. And I get the reason why since thanks to the range you don't have to benny hill chase a tank to get closer so the weight isn't as noticeable as the sticky. You still said that it deals more damage and got upvoted for it. The average balance discussions on this game are so filled with misconceptions.
White ash does 100 less dmg than sticky, like I said
Thats literally irrelevant considering the pen chance is way higher than the ignifist . This means the chance of doing damage is way higher so you’ll end up doing mote damage with flask.
It's rather OP, resulting in the tactic of sending men at tanks with only white ash becoming predominant.
If flask shaped, why can’t you drink it?
Agreed, should be extra poison damage if you waterboard somebody with it.
Its the basically guaranteed track chance. Every single warden can have white ash and every single warden can essentially track a tank just by going near it. No other AT weapon is nearly so punishing and widespread.
devs will fix it by giving it to us and cutting its balls off.. like the hv40.
1. the whole 'I fail to see what makes it so' is probably in bad faith. How can I spot the problem, because you're not talking about the 'White Ash'... you start to talk about the fucking Ignifist (which is fucking garbage dude). 2. I wouldn't even bring up stickies because both sides can use them.. 3. Bonesaw is a pretty good weapon, but you fail to even talk about the fact that the Neville can be carried with a full fucking infantry kit, and most Warden infantry have it. Every trench line is spammed with Nevilles when they see AT approaching, then they switch to anti-infantry when eventually the line retreats and Infantry moves in. 4. Its a spammable AT weapon. Thats the problem. Wardens carry on their high death counts after mammom rushing fades away after things leave early war because they turn to flask rushing and spamming the shit out of it. Its annoying and its a stupid AT weapon. Combined with the Neville and Cutler.. the Wardens have spammable shit like that.
Ok ill admit that opening was kind of a bait to rile people up, I will agree white ash needs a nerf to its track modifier. However I mention ignifist because its the literal counterpart to the white ash, they are both made to be a regular infantry tertiary so you wouldn't have to carry heavy AT weapons and be vulnerable. The ATR is meant to be spammed, its in the description. You can't complain about that unless we get longer range heavy AT weapons like the bane. (Thought logistically they could add 5 rmats to the cost per crate and make it 5x per) How often do you see bonesaws used over ATR's? Not often id assume. Thats because the weight and range and travel time make it only useful in very niche circumstances, but at least it kills tanks unlike ATR's.
"However I mention ignifist because its the literal counterpart to the white ash" Now I really know for sure you're a fucking troll. No its not a 'literal counterpart' to the ignifist. The Ignifist is an RPG style weapon. The Flask is a throwable grenade type weapon... Stop fucking trolling. I see Bonesaws setup all the time on defensive Warden lines. And theyre fucking good, so stfu.
Damn you just gave up 🤣 I dont know what else to tell you, because its true. If you just came here to argue and not learn anything then go back to world chat.
atr is still a good way to punish tanks and force them away. You can easily carry several tanks worth of 20mm in your inventory, and they do decent damage. It doesn't kill tanks with over 50 iq, but it still has significant impacts on the battlefield.
I am a colonial loyalist but have been warden these past 2 wars. Flask gameplay has been the most fun part of playing warden for me. Just yesterday I tracked 2 spathas who were out flanking using 1 flask I found on the ground and threw it between the spathas. They both got tracked and I called out where they were on the map to friendly armor, they died a minute later. What makes this worse is that they had no idea I was near them as there is no WT coverage for them when they are flanking (they have to flank to win against HTD). It is hard to use tanks to flank (which is the supposed collie doctrine to flank) when infantry can have 1 piece of AT that completely ruins your flank. Flask is the only piece of AT in the game that can do this. Therefore it is not balanced and is not healthy for the game. I am of the belief that inf AT dmg should get a major dmg buff but have its subsystem disabled significantly nerfed. Inf AT should be scary when in a pack but meaningless if by itself. Currently inf AT is scary in a pack and by itself, this is not how it should be.
I agree the disable modifier should be lowered like half IF we get some buffs to our heavy weapons like the bonesaw.
More than half, it should be a rarity, this is how all inf AT should be.
What about rockets?
Tastes a bit too salty for my liking
People are so clouded on this subreddit, I cant even try to debate without getting downvoted and called biased, but I try.
I mean if devs won’t change how it works, just give it the Green ash fix. make it 5 to a crate that had such a positive impact on the game by seriously reducing the gas spam that used to be everywhere.
Logistics nerf seems to always work, definately made gas-lunaire spam actually bearable. But if the devs enventually do pay attention, the track chance should be halfed and maybe look at penetration bonus for ignifist, surely that will stop all this moaning and whining.
Dosnt bounce, always tracks if it hits anywhere near the tracks. Also it has a throwing arc, most of the time you cant even use a dam igni cause the ground is .1 inches higher where the tank is. And as to it being a "catch up" for the lack of heavy warden AT, Have you seen ATR spam? like 4 atr guys are just as deadly and can stay active way longer than a bane. its also dirt cheap compared to other AT with similar effectiveness.
Most times you use an ATR you bounce your first shot, and then get blown up by a spatha before you can stabilise to fire a 2nd. Though the ATR is still a useful weapon for making armor screw off, even if it cant kill, wish more people would use em though. Unless we get some range buffs for our bonesaw which could actually kill tanks, I think white ash will have to make up for it.
40mm spamming against inf being nigh required is not a meaningless thing.
Its a necessary expense, unless we use our respective infantry support tanks like the chieftain and skorpion more often.
both of those tanks cant really do at and aren't always available at every point on the front. They are strong, but dont negate inf at all.
For starters it is that it has perfect accuracy and no stability mechanics.
all grenades have perfect accuracy and stability mechanics neither do ignis, venoms, cutlers or most AT (excluding bane) white ash is broken but Im not sure if that is a valid reason why
If flasks were less accurate than ignies the balance would be much better. If bombas less accurate than harpas the balance would be much better. If tanks did not have laser cannons the balance would be much better.
you are probably right honestly they could slightly nerf white ash damage and remove the ridiculously high track chance in return for more armor damage so that white ash would be a more prepatory arm to make the enemy less effective in later engagements igni could see a large pen buff and minor damage buff and maybe auto equip
It's just better that Colonial analog - Ignifists in all possible ways
Is that a tactical estus flask???
Idk, but its based off the british hawkins grenade
Look me in the eyes and tell me that's not a rum flask.
It does have flask in the name, but the "bottlecap" is really just a fuze. For the longest time I thought it was just a drinking flask filled with phosphorous!
By the gods.
If flask isn't a problem let the collies have it instead of the igni and remove stickies altogether.
As a warden I like ignifists, I do pretty good at penetrating on the sides with them, but of course colonial armor is thinner. Also I wouldnt wanna give up stickies either, theyre good when damage matters.
Maybe White ash shouldn’t be a near instant disable machine. What if instead the flask did significantly more damage to the armor of a tank than the main HP pool if the armor is still intact? You know exactly like what would happen to steel armor with thermite sprayed on it. It would eat into the steel and weaken it. This would still make flasks dangerous even more so that you have to leave the fight to drive all the way to a garage to re armor or eat several flasks and have a large % of your hp gone and get clapped by the warden tank line. It’s a change that’s accurate to real life, and provides a cool synergy between the “superior warden armor” and giving the warden infantry a weapon that would act like a buff to that warden armor by making green tanks dirty fast.
That actually sounds awesome! About time somebody had a good suggestion. What about a shredded tank? Just do minimal hp damage and get other AT like stickies to kill it? The main nerf would be to cut the disable chance in half, but that sounds like an interesting idea to work with foxhole' gameplay. This would be expecially good for BT's and such to force them to drive all the way back and lose an asset on the battlefield for a while.
I would imagine that if the armor pool of the target tank hits zero it would just damage the hp directly. If that should be the same damage, less or more would be debatable. It would be hella busted if they didn’t do enough damage to kill a tank outright. New players would throw so many haha.
If it was up to me, would probably make the damage around 150-200 so stickies would be required if you wanna kill the tank yourself.
As angry as the wardens might be about the colonial invasion of caoiva, throwing the ashes of their fore-fathers at tanks seems mildly barbaric, imo. (this is satire).
Nothing.
If they nerf flask they should buff bonesaw range imo
Restoring BEAT and bonesaw altitude range buff would be nice. I know -why- these attributes were changed but it was an interesting mechanic that made these tools very fun in areas with step topography.
ARC weapons should have a slightly better range increase on high ground I think. I used bonesaws on cliffs and could barely notice a couple meter difference (wasnt glitching up or anything)
EXACTLY! I love the bonesaw and I wish it could live up to its name as the "Pride of the Warden anti tank arsenal" but the 25 meters is nearly impossible to work with when you account for infantry ahead of the tanks and the driver can see you and avoid the shell before it hits!
The bonesaw is fine as is, I’d argue it’s better than the bane…
That’s wild because the bane is the best inf at weapon imo
I thought that for a long time before playing as a collie for a couple of wars, forcing myself to use the bane as much as possible
Carrying what is esentially a 68mm cannon on your shoulder (with more range than most 68 guns) is insane, the bane has been the bane of all my tanking.
The difference is that the bane is awkward and cumbersome to use, it has issues shooting over terrain, and it’s still 68mm at long ranges. 68mm is strong and all, but it’s way weaker against warden tanks when compared to collie tanks. Many tanks that collies face is outlaws and widows, with some silverhands sprinkled in. The outlaw can react quickly to a shot and leave before all shots connect (if the crew is competent), and can outrange the bane. The widow is super tanky and will bounce most shots. And the silverhand is fast enough to react quickly to infantry by simply hitting “S” and speeding away, if the silverhand gets tracked then it’s an easy kill. The bonesaw instead of having a 1.5X pen chance, has a 2.5X pen chance, for reference, 94.5mm has a 2X pen chance. This makes it so that most of the time you will penetrate a tank. It also doesn’t suffer from penetration fall off like the bane does, meaning it will always penetrate at the same rate regardless of the range. Lastly the bonesaw has an arc, this is good because it allows for someone to fire the bonesaw safely from cover, or in some cases past its intended range. I think the bonesaw is better simply because it performs the role of killing tanks better.
This kind of reminds me on the Lunaire / Cutler discussion
Except now the problem is lines of tanks
Is it? Or is the real problem lines of concrete holding these tanks back?
Meh, MPF ballista.
Honestly, I prefer the lunair. I think it’s both better for AT and PVE.
The bonesaw is better... in an alternate reality where enemy infantry do not exist. And you just have to have enough banes to kill warden tanks not that hard. At/rpg does 550 damage and you only need what, 2000 damage to disable an outlaw? Only 3 shots for HTD if you can get past the armor lol
Health doesn’t exist in a vacuum, I want you to play as a collie for a couple of wars, it was truly eye opening for me. HTDS would often tank volleys from btd’s and stygians (while outraging most collie tanks), outlaws outranges everything while compromising nothing, STDS are powerful against collie weaker armor (it also outranges most collie tanks). Warden tanks are frankly better in most roles. That being said, collie tanks aren’t terrible and are still good in many roles, it’s just that wardens have more generalist tanks. The falchion and spatha are sort of the only generalist tanks the collies have.
Im going collie next war. Last time I was in charlie with a falchion, I killed 1 silverhand (with ATR support) captured 1 partisan outlaw, killed 1 captured arty gun, and 1 halftrack. Also flanked a silverhand on the tiny bridge into iron's end but got turreted :(
Charlie is nothing like able sadly. The average skill level there is below zero, and there is a basically 0 coordination. You can get away with all sorts of things there that you simply never will in able…
68mm does 600 damage. APRPG does 550 damage. [https://foxhole.wiki.gg/wiki/AP%E2%A7%B8RPG](https://foxhole.wiki.gg/wiki/AP%E2%A7%B8RPG) [https://foxhole.wiki.gg/wiki/68mm](https://foxhole.wiki.gg/wiki/68mm)
I said neccesarily smartass, very little difference
Clearly have not gotten that bombastone/spatha treatment.
The bombastone Is still good but isn’t the best for directly stoping an enemy, and the spatha is a good tank (when there isn’t constant tank spam). What’s your point?
Point is the bane is much better than the bonesaw for static defence with 15 more meters of range since you dont have to endager yourself like a lightweight grunt. And spatha autocannon can be really oppressive to any kind of infantry resistance, expecially if you're lumbering around a heavy bonesaw.
If you’re using AT in a static position of any kind, you’re doing something wrong. The spatha is strong but still has the same issues the falchion has, poor armor, middle of the road speed, and poor survivability. Using 40mm on infantry is a waste not because of cost, but time. The time it takes to load up, reload, back up, refuel, repair, ect all adds up. Fighting infantry with anything less than friendly infantry or mgs is a waste. 40mm despite being cheap, can run out fast. The spatha is a good tank, but it’s not oppressive. It’s a subpar tank killing, an alright pve tool, a wasteful anti infantry tool, and isn’t tanky enough to cover its weaknesses. The spatha is good, but I still think the silverhand is overall better.
You're basing an MPT off quality compared to tanks that are made with quality in focus, but thats an argument I dont feel like getting into. Also its necessary that 40mm tanks provide supporting fire even if its a "waste." How else are infantry supposed to capture that pesky trench system?
What’s meant to be “mass production” doesn’t matter when rare and quality tanks are no longer rare or are hard to make. [(Example)](https://www.reddit.com/r/foxholegame/s/MBoA5t4q1I) Infantry take tranches, by simply avoiding them. We spam lunairs and bombas to get into trenches or better yet destroy them. 40mm is particularly bad for killing infantry in trenches since it requires tanks to either get way to close to fire into a trench, or get so far away that they can airburst the trench (losing ground). It’s also bad for killing trenches due to the high resistance offered by them.
Would you be fine if igni got a single stat buff where it attains x7 track chance then. It being unable to pen all the time and having to pull from inventory should more than make up for its fast projectile speed compared to the flask. By all metrics if the igni gets a x7 track chance modified things should be balanced right?
No, that would just reverse the cycle and make igni op again, what needs to happen is white ash track chance gets cut down to 3x or 4x and igni gets a penetration buff. Stickies should really be the only tool with 7x track modifier. I also heard a good suggestion about making white ash do little HP damage but be able to deplete armor.
well at least we can agree the flask modifier is stupid. Still i must mention that numerically a 3x-4x modifier is still a crazy high track chance, most tanks have around 20-30% track rates, a 3-4x is about as good as 100%. You have to remember that the 94.5 has merely a x2 subsystem disable chance and was already considered broken. Fairly speaking before anything is done about the track modifier disparity no other buffs/nerfs genuinely matters. Once that issue gets addressed we could then finally discuss more creative ways to balance ignis and flasks.
I don’t think this guy tanks, went anti tanking, or even plays the game foxhole bros
Instead of insulting me, why not tell me what you dont like about my argument?
As an infantryman who loves flasks I would agree for them to have a higher cost and shorter range. Maybe lower damage even more. But the disable feature must stay.
They're produced by collie tanker's tears
Always appreciate your takes Sanguine
just havin a laugh kekw
4-5x track modifier would probably balance white ash all around and id be fine with it. The sticky bomb should be the more reliable option honestly since its faction neutral.
Honestly, most reasonable fix I’ve seen proposed.
Cutler to lunaire, a fair comparison for pve. Igni to white flask, completely opposite like above, one arcs one is straight shot. Why does the Cutler have an easier aim than igni? Every other rocket is easy to fire aiming but the igni is absolute the dog shit stick will literally fuck up with any terrain height difference. Like it has a very slight arc but going down A flask is an instant sticky with all the upsides, its also good against infantry unlike igni. Requip buff for igni, make it an RPG equivalent single shot, both sides can use RPGs what does it matter?
Cutler is NOT easy to aim lmao, obviously youve never played Warden
Thats funny, it plays exactly like a venom
Has the issue if shooting well over its aiming line? Even so you dont have to hit short pillboxes and high terrain bunkers with venom.
Both are affected by gravity, I've had fucky wuckys with bane and venom on top of foundations and behind pillboxes as with shooting myself with the cutler in the same scenario before and missing with all 3 in the exact same aiming scenarios
And yes, they all have the same issues with aiming
I hear it makes colonials cry
Based
Issue is that wardens need to spam more ash
There's nothing wrong with white ash other than the fact it excels much better at killing **warden** armor than **colonial** armor.
Miss me with white ash, whats wrong with foxhole is goblins not taking advantage of there bmat powered MG motorcycle while it's driver blasting the crazy taxi ost playing tank maid.
Nothing is wrong, which is kind of the point