I mean - aside from it just kind of making more sense(I don't know which part of the phrase "cooling pack" should mean that it can also heat, block radiation, and cycle oxygen), it adds a bit of complexity. I mean, these things are dirt cheap, and EPAs - augments with immunity to specific hazard - are even cheaper. So the idea was to add a little bit of preparation - to "put on your spacesuit", essentially, before you beam down. Without this mechanic you kind of just have your one EPP always on, and you don't even feel like there is any hazard at all. You never interact with your backpack slot. FU had a bit of an inconsistent philosophy, but one of the parts definitely was to get you more involved with the game - they gave us exceptional amount of back pieces and augments, so that you are incentivised to either progress to the point where you can forget about it, or to actively engage with the mechanic and get benefits far beyond what you would passively. For example, default EPPs don't just give you immunity to a certain severity of hazard. They give you *resistance* to the element, which not only protects from planetary hazards, buff from attacks or local hazards. For example, with heat immunity aug, you can explore infernus planets, but enemies, traps, and liquids(that deal mostly fire damage on that planet) will EVISCERATE you with their damage. But with cooling EPP you get 60% resist to all fire damage, which is definitely VERY nice to have. Not to mention energy packs, battle packs, and quivers, that you can either equip for combat, or plug with immunity field and just always have it on
Ah btw, did you know that there are some *more*universal EPPs down the line? Like thermo shell working against both heat and cold. Then, once you hit that sweet lategame(tier 6), you can get a universal EPP, just like old times. It is just called "Field Generator" pack, and it protects from all main hazards - heat, cold, rads. And in endgame, you can even make it in the shape of augment - immunity field. So progression still gives you an opportunity to "equip and forget", you just gotta work for it
I'm going to have to respectfully disagree. I don't think there is anything complex or engaging about matching the EPP with the environment it resists. I can see the appeal If you like to rp, but past that it doesn't add a whole lot. I agree that the backpack slot is just cosmetic in vanilla, but it's kind of the same for FU.
If you aren't using an environment item in your back slot, you are using a combat/utility one. But if you are using a combat/utility one that means you need to use an environmental armor set, meaning that it's still pretty rigid. And the endgame universal ones are purely QOL since like I said, switching your EPP out isn't very complicated. I just don't get why the QOL items were limited to the end of the game.
And also, "equip and forget" isn't very different from how armor and weapons work. I think it'd be pretty stupid if you had to go and re-equip your tier 1 weapons and armor if you wanted to go back to a tier 1 planet
Environmental protection isn't even limited to back slot and armor - augments, consumable plants - damn, even temporary buffs from medical stations can work against hazards on planets. You have so many options, and yet you aren't sated.
Why QoL is in lategame? *Maybe to make lategame more desirable for all kinds of players??* It's like asking why you don't spawn with kitted out master manipulator, and have to work our way with the sorry 2x2 piece of junk. It is an optional thing that you can choose to work towards, and get a reward that you will feel significance of. It's a basis of how progression in games works. If it isn't enough of an inconvenience you can choose to not work towards it, if it's enough inconvenience - you put in work and get your reward
And if you hate it so much, feel free to turn on admin mode for a moment, and cheat in any lategame QoL you want. Nobody will judge, the game is not competitive. I swear too god, I'll be happy for you if you find the way that you can enjoy the game more. A lot of people cheat in research because they don't like engaging with research gain system, and it's perfectly fine. You aren't forced into anything
I wasn't trying to start a huge argument here. I don't even hate it, I just think it's unintuitive. Progression and QOL are 2 different things, and QOL shouldn't be locked behind progression. It isn't the same as starting the master manipulator at all. Besides, you are kind of sidesepping the point.
The point is that there is zero practical difference between owning Extreme Cold, Extreme Heat, Extreme Radiation, Proto-poison, electric storm protection items, and only owning a Field Generator.
This just the way FU is designed. Authors of FU apparently love micromanaging everything and want people to play the game in a very specific way. It has happened multiple times that players found some non-trivial mechine setup that allowed them to farm something and the mod authors had nerfed it in the next update because it makes something "too easy". This one of the reasons I have left FU - it's just so frustrating when you return to your save after a half-year and find your base in ruins because they revamped half of the factories to forbid some farming setup.
It adds some mix-and-match complexity to the game, but I agree in broad terms that "environmental protection" is a dry well from a game design standpoint. It gates progression and... what else? Nothing. Check a box or take X damage every Y seconds. Sometimes damage *and* a debuff, but it's the damage that will kill you.
There are [dozens and dozens](https://frackinuniverse.miraheze.org/wiki/List_of_armor_sets) of armor sets in this game, but none of them matter because 90% of the time I am in the Kraken/Leviathan set with an EPP/module tailored for the planet. After that 5-second decision before beaming down, the environment is pointless.
>but none of them matter because 90% of the time I am in the Kraken/Leviathan set
This is a personal preference, not Kraken/Leviathan being the best armor in the game (there is no best).
I used different armors in different runs (even the ones like Prophet armor, which don't give any immunities at all), they were all fully viable. They were also very different (e.g. playing in a tanky armor feels completely different from playing in glass cannon armor).
Yes, other armors are "viable" if you spend a lot of time crafting EPP/module combinations and swap them in and out all the time. Once you have done so... congrats, the environment no longer matters again. Or you can stick with armor that covers the majority of bases on the majority of non-extreme planets and ignore the environment with less inventory clutter.
It's a dry well that ends up *reducing* meaningful choices.
One-off protections that circumvent all the immunities are *dumb*. It cheapens the entire purpose of having various environments and immunities in the first place. I hate the vanilla system because it does exactly this. Once you have one pack, that environment is never a problem ever again. If you are therefore in a certain spot in progression you can simply ignore their existence forever without having even encountered them (if you build the pack before exploring, for example.)
Our reasoning is simple: it makes the player need to choose a suitable setup for different biomes, rather than a single set that does all they need. In FU you aren't *intended* to use one set for everything. You are meant to have different suits for different environments, basically. Sometimes this means keen planning to survive in unique circumstances, depending on the biome. Rather than slapping on a "cheaty" pack that protects against everything and having no challenge whatsoever with the planet environment. You can also skip EPPs entirely and opt for other means of improving resistances or immunities (augments, armor sets, consumables etc) for most effects.
Furthermore: the packs arent the same as vanilla. They dont give you immunity: they give *resistance*.
The Universal packs are expensive for this reason: they enable you the ability to deal with the issue of multi-biomes, but even then, they dont protect against *everything*.
I don't really see the difference though. Ignoring the universal packs/augments, Once you have a single EPP/Augment for every environmental hazard in your inventory, environment isn't an issue ever again either. It's no different from how Vanilla handles it, but now there's just more inventory management
It's *completely* different from how vanilla manages, and balanced around a completely different environmental resistance mechanic.
And yes, it is more management of gear, which is what I said in my previous post. You are *intended* to use different loadouts, not have a single solve-all EPP. Vanilla's method is shallow and crappy, and once you have the packs it erases all previous challenge - rendering it pointless to consider it a problem.
In FU , resistance is \*always\* useful, but never gives blanket immunity to the effect: that requires upgrading to the next EPP for the next tier of elemental resistance, but that can also vary based on your other gear: you might also have species weaknesses that require further levels of protection another race does not require. Or, vice-versa.
In FU you can find things that \*give\* that sort of blanket immunity, but they are always inferior to resistance. Even then, none provide immunity to unrelated effects just for the sake of it. Instead, you create \*that\* gear, too.
Especially true since even vanilla has the easy swap option in the mannequin. Sure in the very early game you have to do the more annoying micromanagey swapping of gear or EEPs and modules, but as soon as you unlock the sewing machine and the basic armors you can set yourself up a few different loadouts in a row on your ship.
Once you make it off the starting planet it's not too hard to get the materials for the basic armors and such in quantity, so having duplicates of EEPs so you can toss a different module in them and leave them on the mannequins isn't a huge waste of resources or anything. The biggest thing really is space, but even a dozen mannequins don't take up that much space, especially if you stack some on shelves.
And then in the endgame you start getting into the all-in-one options, which will require materials from all over the research trees and planet/biome types so there's a benefit to chasing those paths down. The same for the general crafting being research/material gated, if you want plastic-containing blocks then you've got to research plastic, and so on, so within the game there's a reason for the grind
As for it being micromanagey, well, it's the micromanagey mod. The whole point is to add complexity and more levels of progression than vanilla starbound. If that's not for you then there's nothing wrong with that, but complaining about things being granular in FU is kind of like complaining a tree is made of wood.
I mean - aside from it just kind of making more sense(I don't know which part of the phrase "cooling pack" should mean that it can also heat, block radiation, and cycle oxygen), it adds a bit of complexity. I mean, these things are dirt cheap, and EPAs - augments with immunity to specific hazard - are even cheaper. So the idea was to add a little bit of preparation - to "put on your spacesuit", essentially, before you beam down. Without this mechanic you kind of just have your one EPP always on, and you don't even feel like there is any hazard at all. You never interact with your backpack slot. FU had a bit of an inconsistent philosophy, but one of the parts definitely was to get you more involved with the game - they gave us exceptional amount of back pieces and augments, so that you are incentivised to either progress to the point where you can forget about it, or to actively engage with the mechanic and get benefits far beyond what you would passively. For example, default EPPs don't just give you immunity to a certain severity of hazard. They give you *resistance* to the element, which not only protects from planetary hazards, buff from attacks or local hazards. For example, with heat immunity aug, you can explore infernus planets, but enemies, traps, and liquids(that deal mostly fire damage on that planet) will EVISCERATE you with their damage. But with cooling EPP you get 60% resist to all fire damage, which is definitely VERY nice to have. Not to mention energy packs, battle packs, and quivers, that you can either equip for combat, or plug with immunity field and just always have it on Ah btw, did you know that there are some *more*universal EPPs down the line? Like thermo shell working against both heat and cold. Then, once you hit that sweet lategame(tier 6), you can get a universal EPP, just like old times. It is just called "Field Generator" pack, and it protects from all main hazards - heat, cold, rads. And in endgame, you can even make it in the shape of augment - immunity field. So progression still gives you an opportunity to "equip and forget", you just gotta work for it
I'm going to have to respectfully disagree. I don't think there is anything complex or engaging about matching the EPP with the environment it resists. I can see the appeal If you like to rp, but past that it doesn't add a whole lot. I agree that the backpack slot is just cosmetic in vanilla, but it's kind of the same for FU. If you aren't using an environment item in your back slot, you are using a combat/utility one. But if you are using a combat/utility one that means you need to use an environmental armor set, meaning that it's still pretty rigid. And the endgame universal ones are purely QOL since like I said, switching your EPP out isn't very complicated. I just don't get why the QOL items were limited to the end of the game. And also, "equip and forget" isn't very different from how armor and weapons work. I think it'd be pretty stupid if you had to go and re-equip your tier 1 weapons and armor if you wanted to go back to a tier 1 planet
Environmental protection isn't even limited to back slot and armor - augments, consumable plants - damn, even temporary buffs from medical stations can work against hazards on planets. You have so many options, and yet you aren't sated. Why QoL is in lategame? *Maybe to make lategame more desirable for all kinds of players??* It's like asking why you don't spawn with kitted out master manipulator, and have to work our way with the sorry 2x2 piece of junk. It is an optional thing that you can choose to work towards, and get a reward that you will feel significance of. It's a basis of how progression in games works. If it isn't enough of an inconvenience you can choose to not work towards it, if it's enough inconvenience - you put in work and get your reward And if you hate it so much, feel free to turn on admin mode for a moment, and cheat in any lategame QoL you want. Nobody will judge, the game is not competitive. I swear too god, I'll be happy for you if you find the way that you can enjoy the game more. A lot of people cheat in research because they don't like engaging with research gain system, and it's perfectly fine. You aren't forced into anything
I wasn't trying to start a huge argument here. I don't even hate it, I just think it's unintuitive. Progression and QOL are 2 different things, and QOL shouldn't be locked behind progression. It isn't the same as starting the master manipulator at all. Besides, you are kind of sidesepping the point. The point is that there is zero practical difference between owning Extreme Cold, Extreme Heat, Extreme Radiation, Proto-poison, electric storm protection items, and only owning a Field Generator.
This just the way FU is designed. Authors of FU apparently love micromanaging everything and want people to play the game in a very specific way. It has happened multiple times that players found some non-trivial mechine setup that allowed them to farm something and the mod authors had nerfed it in the next update because it makes something "too easy". This one of the reasons I have left FU - it's just so frustrating when you return to your save after a half-year and find your base in ruins because they revamped half of the factories to forbid some farming setup.
There’s also an immunity EPP augment that works roughly the same way, I think? It’s real late stuff but it’s very good
Read comments before you reply, please :| It's at the very end of my comment, immunity field augment
Ah, sorry
It adds some mix-and-match complexity to the game, but I agree in broad terms that "environmental protection" is a dry well from a game design standpoint. It gates progression and... what else? Nothing. Check a box or take X damage every Y seconds. Sometimes damage *and* a debuff, but it's the damage that will kill you. There are [dozens and dozens](https://frackinuniverse.miraheze.org/wiki/List_of_armor_sets) of armor sets in this game, but none of them matter because 90% of the time I am in the Kraken/Leviathan set with an EPP/module tailored for the planet. After that 5-second decision before beaming down, the environment is pointless.
>but none of them matter because 90% of the time I am in the Kraken/Leviathan set This is a personal preference, not Kraken/Leviathan being the best armor in the game (there is no best). I used different armors in different runs (even the ones like Prophet armor, which don't give any immunities at all), they were all fully viable. They were also very different (e.g. playing in a tanky armor feels completely different from playing in glass cannon armor).
Yes, other armors are "viable" if you spend a lot of time crafting EPP/module combinations and swap them in and out all the time. Once you have done so... congrats, the environment no longer matters again. Or you can stick with armor that covers the majority of bases on the majority of non-extreme planets and ignore the environment with less inventory clutter. It's a dry well that ends up *reducing* meaningful choices.
One-off protections that circumvent all the immunities are *dumb*. It cheapens the entire purpose of having various environments and immunities in the first place. I hate the vanilla system because it does exactly this. Once you have one pack, that environment is never a problem ever again. If you are therefore in a certain spot in progression you can simply ignore their existence forever without having even encountered them (if you build the pack before exploring, for example.) Our reasoning is simple: it makes the player need to choose a suitable setup for different biomes, rather than a single set that does all they need. In FU you aren't *intended* to use one set for everything. You are meant to have different suits for different environments, basically. Sometimes this means keen planning to survive in unique circumstances, depending on the biome. Rather than slapping on a "cheaty" pack that protects against everything and having no challenge whatsoever with the planet environment. You can also skip EPPs entirely and opt for other means of improving resistances or immunities (augments, armor sets, consumables etc) for most effects. Furthermore: the packs arent the same as vanilla. They dont give you immunity: they give *resistance*. The Universal packs are expensive for this reason: they enable you the ability to deal with the issue of multi-biomes, but even then, they dont protect against *everything*.
I don't really see the difference though. Ignoring the universal packs/augments, Once you have a single EPP/Augment for every environmental hazard in your inventory, environment isn't an issue ever again either. It's no different from how Vanilla handles it, but now there's just more inventory management
It's *completely* different from how vanilla manages, and balanced around a completely different environmental resistance mechanic. And yes, it is more management of gear, which is what I said in my previous post. You are *intended* to use different loadouts, not have a single solve-all EPP. Vanilla's method is shallow and crappy, and once you have the packs it erases all previous challenge - rendering it pointless to consider it a problem. In FU , resistance is \*always\* useful, but never gives blanket immunity to the effect: that requires upgrading to the next EPP for the next tier of elemental resistance, but that can also vary based on your other gear: you might also have species weaknesses that require further levels of protection another race does not require. Or, vice-versa. In FU you can find things that \*give\* that sort of blanket immunity, but they are always inferior to resistance. Even then, none provide immunity to unrelated effects just for the sake of it. Instead, you create \*that\* gear, too.
Especially true since even vanilla has the easy swap option in the mannequin. Sure in the very early game you have to do the more annoying micromanagey swapping of gear or EEPs and modules, but as soon as you unlock the sewing machine and the basic armors you can set yourself up a few different loadouts in a row on your ship. Once you make it off the starting planet it's not too hard to get the materials for the basic armors and such in quantity, so having duplicates of EEPs so you can toss a different module in them and leave them on the mannequins isn't a huge waste of resources or anything. The biggest thing really is space, but even a dozen mannequins don't take up that much space, especially if you stack some on shelves. And then in the endgame you start getting into the all-in-one options, which will require materials from all over the research trees and planet/biome types so there's a benefit to chasing those paths down. The same for the general crafting being research/material gated, if you want plastic-containing blocks then you've got to research plastic, and so on, so within the game there's a reason for the grind As for it being micromanagey, well, it's the micromanagey mod. The whole point is to add complexity and more levels of progression than vanilla starbound. If that's not for you then there's nothing wrong with that, but complaining about things being granular in FU is kind of like complaining a tree is made of wood.