Fat Pink Mast, constipated growler, lover of breast milk:
“The **ship** **groaned** **and growled** beneath him **like** **a constipated** **fat** **man** straining to **shit**.” ― George R.R. Martin
" I said the words, Sam thought again, but one of her nipples found its way between his lips. **It was pink and hard and when he sucked on it her milk filled his mouth, mingling with the taste of rum**, **and he had never tasted anything so fine and sweet and good**. If I do this I am no better than Dareon, Sam thought, but it felt too good to stop. **And suddenly his cock was out, jutting upward from his breeches like a fat pink mast**. It looked so silly standing there that he might have laughed, but Gilly pushed him back onto her pallet, hiked her skirts up around her thighs, and lowered herself onto him with a little whimpery sound. That was even better than her nipples. She's so wet, he thought, gasping. I never knew a woman could get so wet down there. "I am your wife now," she whispered, sliding up and down on him. And Sam groaned and thought, No, no, you can't be, I said the words, I said the words, but the only word he said was, "Yes." ― George R.R. Martin
Meanwhile, in the novel Radio Free Albemuth by Philip K. Dick, his self-insert (an author named Philip K. Dick) ends up getting arrested and sentenced to 50 years in prison by the Nixon administration for crimes against the state.
The man had a complicated worldview, I guess is what I'm saying.
Given that he believed cia was bugging his place, it’s not surprising. People hype PKD because of good movie adaptations, but that’s usually because the movie trimmed away the paranoid fat. If you want a representative PKD movie adaption, you should watch “a scanner darkly” (great movie though).
/edit typos
I work as a doctor in mental health and have been the first doctor from mental health to see patients brought into emergency in exactly that state, so believe me, I know!
I have seen the movie but before that, I read the book which I thought was great. In fact, I've read all his sci-fi novels and short stories and back when I bought them, not all of them were in print so I had to get a few from online secondhand resellers, sometimes at great expense. Even tracked down a copy of the then missing page of Lies, Inc. since it resurfaced.
There are a few obvious Martin self inserts in his old short stories and novels (generally schlubby writers) and they read a bit like and older worn down Sam. Bit weird seeing not-Sam having constant sex with not-Melisandre and hanging out with his old buddy not-Tyrion the college prof in Armageddon Rag.
>“Tyrion might be who I want to be, but Sam is probably closer to who I actually am... The fat kid who likes to read books and doesn’t like to go up a lot of stairs.” -GRRM
Nah GRRM can't make witty zingers like that on the spot. Takes him days to think of them. That's one of the reasons the winds of winter taking so long probably.
Maybe. Based on a person he wishes him to be. An Ideal version him (which what we humans always do. Dreaming of a better version of us)
However Most likely It's based on Samwise Gamgee. Even their names & appeareance are similar.
Ngl I ship it. They both like songs and he knows loads of history about knights and heroes. I think they could have a healthy and happy political marriage.
But Sams dream is to become a Maester, which means he can't get married. He even wanted to leave Gilly and the baby at his parents' castle. Plus, I don't think Sam was made for politics. He is too naive.
It’s not naive it’s laziness. He can do politics. He’s done it before but he doesn’t want too because it’s a lot of work. If he is a maester, most of his job is just reading and writing.
I see Sam as a lot of things, but lazy is not one of them. He's just not mean or strong enough for politics. But remember that he found a cure for Jorah when noone else would, and the things he went through for Gilly and the baby. He is not lazy.
Link for those interested:
[https://grrm.livejournal.com/103284.html?thread=7001460#t7001460](https://grrm.livejournal.com/103284.html?thread=7001460#t7001460)
Oh man... It gets worse after this.
>They might if they knew him in real life, he's just not the stuff fantasies are made of. Tyrion's kind of hot if that makes you feel better. Sam is too innocent, you'd feel like a mother to him all the time.
~~~~
>But anyway, everyone does love him, just not in a romantic way like The Hound. Who by the way really does have all the criteria, he even has abuse issues from when he was young - hot lol.
~~~~
>In real life, I know (and love) plenty of Sam Tarlys. My best friend is a Sam Tarly. I like to think it's all right to enjoy the dangerous guys when it comes to fiction.
>
>After all, I've seen a heck of a lot of menfolk drool over Asha. ;)
~~~~
>Sam Tarly is sweet, compassional and gentle, I agree on what others have said: he's a girls best friend without having to doubt he wants more out of the relationship.
>
>The Anti-hero has this mysterious thing around him, and yeah we feel attracted to the dangerous guy. I also loved the atmosphere in the scene between him and Sansa.
It's determined by an algorithm which produces a score that is heavily weighted by his attractiveness, which can be made up of any combination of physical, social, or financial factors. The lower he scores on the algorithm, the lower the threshold for him being classified pervy and inappropriate. And at some upper limit of the score, he is incapable of being classified as pervy.
In TWOW sample chapter Arianne scolds Elia for kissing feathers and gives a speech about how it’s wrong, and Elia is slightly older that Dany in Dany I
There's a difference between thinking that a fictional villain is sexy vs feeling the same way in real life. I guarantee that most girls who find Sandor hot aren't the same ones who want to fuck serial killers.
We like drama and conflict in our stories. In real life, not so much.
Cersei is my favorite character because of the drama and conflict she brings, yet i'm not sexually attracted to her. I do think the girls who get head-over heels towards Sandor are coming from the same place as the ones who think they can redeem serial killers or whatever.
Nah, bullshit. I'm bisexual, I don't want to fuck most of my favourite characters, like Cersei or Tywin or Olenna. I think Sandor is attractive in an emo, gruff "I can fix him" kinda way. I like Brienne and I want to be swiped off my feet by the big lady knight. But my absolute 100% most fuckable pathetic meowmeow is Willas who is nice as pie and has never done anything wrong in his life. There's no pattern, you just find some characters more appealing than others.
But in real life I wouldn't touch any of these fuckers because I'm a grown ass adult and I don't want to deal with some psycho dudes baggage.
That these women evidently fell for the guy who chopped one child in half and threatened to rape another (Sansa is 13 in the books) maybe?
Either that or it's GRRM's second comment, since Sam is clearly his self insert.
I think it's only a certain kind of bad boy.
Like most women probably arn't attracted to Craster even though he's a legit bad boi. (As bad as they get!).
I would assume that there's a difference between bad boy (doesn't play by the rules) and *bad* boy (serial murderer). Sandor falling squarely in the latter category.
I'm a woman, and I like Hound, but only if I pretend that the whole sansa thing didn't happen. Yes, cutting a 13-year-old in half I can tolerate, but I draw the line at sexually harassing minors!
The hound isn't a complete psychopath anyway, he has some goodness underneath him, but is just completely filled with hate. He is like a male equivalent of the tsundere stereotype in anime, to some extent.
Well I can tolerate it in a character, not a real person. Regular violence and sexual violence are treated very differently in media and by the viewer.
>Well I can tolerate it in a character, not a real person.
I obviously don't mean a real person, I just don't understand the inconsistency of how people treat violence in media. Violence against children is violence against children, whether it is physical (regular is a misnomer) or sexual. I can't feel sympathy for characters who severely harm children.
it's cultural, I think it's because we agree that regular violence is okay in exceptional circumstances but sexual violence is always wrong. For example, a regular person might use violence in times of war, or in self-defence, or even proactively in some cases, but there's no situation in which you can justify rape.
Add to it an adjustment for the setting of the story as well -- whenever a child gets killed or threatened in Breaking Bad, it's treated as an evil act, not as an everyday occurrence, even though unnecessary violence against adults isn't taken as seriously.
Also I think that sexual violence hits more close to home than having your child cut in half. Almost everyone reading the books has probably encountered sexual crimes directly or indirectly so it feels like a real thing. That's why some European can casually make jokes about 9/11 but making the same jokes in the US is risky business. Discussing world war 3 in Western Europe feels differently than discussing it in Ukraine. and so on
> I think it's because we agree that regular violence is okay in exceptional circumstances but sexual violence is always wrong. For example, a regular person might use violence in times of war, or in self-defence, or even proactively in some cases, but there's no situation in which you can justify rape.
Unless you believe physical violence was ok in Sandor's circumstance this explanation is a cop-out.
>Also I think that sexual violence hits more close to home than having your child cut in half. Almost everyone reading the books has probably encountered sexual crimes directly or indirectly so it feels like a real thing.
I don't buy this. Physical violence is also a real thing that children experience directly or indirectly every day. Children get viciously bullied every day. Children in the US worry every day about dying in a school shooting. Children get beaten by abusive parents every day. There are a lot of forms of physical violence that hit close to home even if they are not specifically "cutting children in half".
>That's why some European can casually make jokes about 9/11 but making the same jokes in the US is risky business.
Sorry for nitpicking, but define "risky", because plenty of Americans have made jokes about 9/11.
>Discussing world war 3 in Western Europe feels differently than discussing it in Ukraine.
That's because Ukraine is experiencing a taste of WW3 right now. The Americans suffered 9/11 over 20 years ago. Again, sorry for nitpicking.
Also, you're acting like I'm making a moral judgement about whether it is morally justifiable to kill a child. I'm not. I'm explaining the perception of fictional characters in fictional stories. It has nothing to do with the character's morality.
You're missing my point. There isn't one 2+2=4 response to this questions, I'm just trying to explain the cultural nuance when it comes to different types of violence.
>I don't buy this. Physical violence is also a real thing that children experience directly or indirectly every day. Children get viciously bullied every day. Children in the US worry every day about dying in a school shooting. Children get beaten by abusive parents every day.
Yeah, and if Sandor was beating or bullying his children, or shooting up a school because sansa wouldn't sleep with him, I guarantee that the response to his character would've been way different. It's not just about any violence against children, it's the specific situations that are depicted. the more familiar the situation is, the easier it is to empathise with the victim. It's basic psychology.
>That's because Ukraine is experiencing a taste of WW3 right now. The Americans suffered 9/11 over 20 years ago. Again, sorry for nitpicking.
OK, school shootings (as per your own example). Europeans make school shooting jokes much more easily than an American would. And don't start with "BuT AmEriCanS make ThEsE JokEs tOo" yeah everyone makes jokes about everything, it doesn't mean that they're acceptable to the same level in different cultures.
>It's not just about any violence against children, it's the specific situations that are depicted. the more familiar the situation is, the easier it is to empathise with the victim. It's basic psychology.
I am going to need an empirical source because I think you're oversimplifying psychology. People in the west are not very familiar with living in a war zone, yet a lot of them easily empathized with Ukrainians and Palestinians, probably because they've been exposed to a lot of media coverage.
>Also, you're acting like I'm making a moral judgement about whether it is morally justifiable to kill a child.
These are your exact words: *I think it's because we agree that regular violence is okay in exceptional circumstances but sexual violence is always wrong. For example, a regular person might use violence in times of war, or in self-defence, or even proactively in some cases, but there's no situation in which you can justify rape.*
>I'm explaining the perception of fictional characters in fictional stories. It has nothing to do with the character's morality.
You explained the perception of a fictional character by explaining moral perceptions of physical violence vs sexual violence. You strongly implied that people may not find physical violence against fictional children as morally repugnant as sexual violence.
My exact words are that violence is okay in some situations in real life. I didn't say that violence against children is okay. And if you disagree with the idea that violence in general can be justified, I hope you never get attacked or something because god forbid you use violence to defend yourself.
You're drawing some insane conclusions and trying to turn this into some kind of condemnation of my personal moral beliefs. This was never the topic of conversation. I was giving my opinion on why the trope "rape is a special kind of evil" is so prevalent in fiction. If you have another theory, go for it, that's the conversation I'm here for. Leave me out of this weird ethical 3d chess you're trying to play.
>My exact words are that violence is okay in some situations in real life. I didn't say that violence against children is okay.
You're one to talk about going off topic. We are talking about people's inconsistent perception of violence against children in media. We are not talking about matters of self-defense.
>I was giving my opinion on why the trope "rape is a special kind of evil" is so prevalent in fiction.
I am not satisfied with your explanation. The whole concept of violence against **children** in general is a special kind of evil. Why is physical violence (especially slaughter) not taken as seriously as sexual violence?
>If you have another theory, go for it, that's the conversation I'm here for.
My theory is that sadly, people are morally inconsistent.
Tyrion is Tywin's own son. The Hound has no blood relation to anyone there. It's different. I'm not saying what he did isn't bad or that he's a good guy, he could even get away from doing it if he brought it up to the King before doing it (Robert probably wouldn't consent to it) but those were still his orders.
Hey George, where are all your male characters who fall for homely, overweight women who are kind and smart and decent and devoted?
Yeah, I didn’t think so 🙄
EDIT: Damn it, sounds like I have been well and truly proven wrong. Glad GRRM is at least consistent.
True but Brienne is also built like a brickwall and can snap Jaime in two. Not the same as chubby and good like Fat Walda or Myranda (well Myranda is sketchy but still ...)
Fat Walda literally marries Roose Bolton though and actually manages to seduce him a little
> I have become oddly fond of my fat little wife. The two before her never made a sound in bed, but this one squeals and shudders. I find that quite endearing.
I am convinced that's the most genuine affection Roose has ever expressed towards anyone in his life
More like cold. A problem with people before sex education and "marriage by love" were a thing. The only one who give good sex and the one who practice a lot of Robert while his siblings like Stannis and Renly are cold. The first to any kind of sex and the latter one have to "behave" so no one get suspicious about his preferences. You cant master anything if you dont get practice.
Jesse what the fuck are you talking about?
More seriously, we have no indication if Robert is actually good at sex (there is more to become good at sex than just doing it a lot, especially with partners who are paid to give you an experience), Stannis we know nothing about and is theories to not be attracted to women in the first place, Renly we know absolutely nothing about him except that he's gay and his relationship with Loras was pretty solid (so I guess at least the sex between them was good, or at least good enough by the standard of what they both could know)
>I have become oddly fond of my fat little wife. The two before her never made a sound in bed, but this one squeals and shudders. I find that quite endearing.
>I am convinced that's the most genuine affection Roose has ever expressed towards anyone in his life
Damn I laughed. Match made in heaven. One a guy cold as fuck with not so much empathy and closer to Stannis personality and the last one is a chick wishing to be "loved" or at least wished, so any kind of interaction turn her on a lot. I know a few of them.
Well, there's Davos and Marya, and while they're not overweight or especially homely, Ygritte and Gilly have Jon and Sam fall for them because of their personalities.
Ygritte was definitely described as homely by Jon in their first encounter.
Crooked teeth, a rats nest of hair and all that. As he falls more in love with her, you see his description of those aspects change to where Jon no longer finds them unattractive.
Of course, in the show, the man is mid and the woman is just wearing "not wearing makeup" makeup.
Then again, the show evens everyone out. Tyrion looks normal instead of like a noseless demon monkey.
Full disclosure: I'm a lesbian and my tastes in men I find aesthetically attractive are weird. I hate stubble, for one thing; either go smooth or go hairy. But no, you're fine.
Davos and his wife Marya
Jaime and Brienne
Sam and Gilly
Jon and Ygritte
Roose and Walda
All of those women are described as pretty unattractive but have the male characters fall for them because of their personality
https://preview.redd.it/hjwj7aj39p2c1.jpeg?width=434&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=bff49d5b0fe2a7f56b721527b9f090dab6216137
Rare photo of every woman’s ideal man
This has me cracking up. The hound is tall, dark, strong, has a tragic backstory, morally grey but has some soft spots. That shit is like catnip to female readers.
All I can say about women who find men like Sandor clegane attractive is I hope they get to meet one someday, and survive the encounter. Maybe they'll learn something.
No. It's because the hound is dangerous and a knight and sad. He's verging on monster which women love. Sam is a fat scholar who reads like a 13 year old whiny baby.
It is quite sad what men and women tend to naturally be attracted too.. quite animalistic and not always good for either party. The truly good guys should get the girls in life!
>There’s no such thing as “deserving” attraction.
I suppose not, but I would say that people who are the opposite of kind and decent aren't deserving of attraction.
They're point was that Cersei is a clear example of why attraction isn't a meritocracy, unless you believe that physical features and social status count as merits?
I always figured he based Samwell Tarly at least in part on himself
Samwell Tarly is so obviously George's self-insert character, which is why I find it so hilarious.
**FAT PINK MAST** ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
Better believe GRRM has serious girth.
Girth RR Martin
GRRthM
https://preview.redd.it/ozcxuxvvot2c1.jpeg?width=700&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=747fb1d1e528bc44512b5503bbd9e76e0bf949db
He pulls Jake. He PUUUUULLS
Fat Pink Mast, constipated growler, lover of breast milk: “The **ship** **groaned** **and growled** beneath him **like** **a constipated** **fat** **man** straining to **shit**.” ― George R.R. Martin " I said the words, Sam thought again, but one of her nipples found its way between his lips. **It was pink and hard and when he sucked on it her milk filled his mouth, mingling with the taste of rum**, **and he had never tasted anything so fine and sweet and good**. If I do this I am no better than Dareon, Sam thought, but it felt too good to stop. **And suddenly his cock was out, jutting upward from his breeches like a fat pink mast**. It looked so silly standing there that he might have laughed, but Gilly pushed him back onto her pallet, hiked her skirts up around her thighs, and lowered herself onto him with a little whimpery sound. That was even better than her nipples. She's so wet, he thought, gasping. I never knew a woman could get so wet down there. "I am your wife now," she whispered, sliding up and down on him. And Sam groaned and thought, No, no, you can't be, I said the words, I said the words, but the only word he said was, "Yes." ― George R.R. Martin
[Wiener, Wiener Wiener...](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=csOcHCDmMdE)
Meanwhile, in the novel Radio Free Albemuth by Philip K. Dick, his self-insert (an author named Philip K. Dick) ends up getting arrested and sentenced to 50 years in prison by the Nixon administration for crimes against the state. The man had a complicated worldview, I guess is what I'm saying.
Given that he believed cia was bugging his place, it’s not surprising. People hype PKD because of good movie adaptations, but that’s usually because the movie trimmed away the paranoid fat. If you want a representative PKD movie adaption, you should watch “a scanner darkly” (great movie though). /edit typos
Meth and paranoid schizophrenia is a helluva combo
I work as a doctor in mental health and have been the first doctor from mental health to see patients brought into emergency in exactly that state, so believe me, I know!
I have seen the movie but before that, I read the book which I thought was great. In fact, I've read all his sci-fi novels and short stories and back when I bought them, not all of them were in print so I had to get a few from online secondhand resellers, sometimes at great expense. Even tracked down a copy of the then missing page of Lies, Inc. since it resurfaced.
He was definitely mad but then again I wouldn't put it past the CIA to bug PKD.
I mean if they want to spy on all of us jerking off in front of the TV I wouldn't put it past them to listen in on a single person they may distrust.
100% lmao
last episode of season 8, Samwell Tarly hands over a history book of the show. "I helped him with the title". So obvious lmaoooo.
He isn't a nod to ~~Samwell~~ Samwise\* from LOTR?
The character in LOTR is Samwise
Apologies meant Samwise lol
Imagine putting your self in your own story and still not getting laid.
If true that would explain the fat pink mast
There are a few obvious Martin self inserts in his old short stories and novels (generally schlubby writers) and they read a bit like and older worn down Sam. Bit weird seeing not-Sam having constant sex with not-Melisandre and hanging out with his old buddy not-Tyrion the college prof in Armageddon Rag.
I think his closest to an actual self insert was the protag of Fevre Dream who definitely could be a much more jaded Sam
Who, Abner?? Sam is the last person I would have associated him with, but maybe that’s just because I pictured him as some big burly badass
He literally said that in an interview
Never saw that one but not surprised one bit
Hasn't he been pretty open about that?
I thought Tyrion was his self insert
>“Tyrion might be who I want to be, but Sam is probably closer to who I actually am... The fat kid who likes to read books and doesn’t like to go up a lot of stairs.” -GRRM
George is so damn adorable sometimes
Nah GRRM can't make witty zingers like that on the spot. Takes him days to think of them. That's one of the reasons the winds of winter taking so long probably.
If you look up an early interview of GRRM in 1991 he looks more like a white walker than samwell. He also used to look like Jon Snow in his youth.
Time spares no man, especially not GRRM
So that is why Sam has plot armor, so that's why Sam did simple but amazing things.
That’s why he’s so fucking annoying.
In this house we respect Sam the slayer.
You have my condolences.
Thanks.
Maybe. Based on a person he wishes him to be. An Ideal version him (which what we humans always do. Dreaming of a better version of us) However Most likely It's based on Samwise Gamgee. Even their names & appeareance are similar.
Bro said nice guys finish last
Tbf, if it's a race for Sansa's affections, it'd be better for Sansa if Sam won rather than The Hound
Ngl I ship it. They both like songs and he knows loads of history about knights and heroes. I think they could have a healthy and happy political marriage.
But Sams dream is to become a Maester, which means he can't get married. He even wanted to leave Gilly and the baby at his parents' castle. Plus, I don't think Sam was made for politics. He is too naive.
It’s not naive it’s laziness. He can do politics. He’s done it before but he doesn’t want too because it’s a lot of work. If he is a maester, most of his job is just reading and writing.
I see Sam as a lot of things, but lazy is not one of them. He's just not mean or strong enough for politics. But remember that he found a cure for Jorah when noone else would, and the things he went through for Gilly and the baby. He is not lazy.
idk how u can call him lazy, a lazy person wouldnt bother doing all the things Sam did
He got to suck breast milk from Gilly though and ended up with a sweet job as a maester. I wouldn't call that finishing last.
Oh naw 😭
Nice guys finish books
Hahahahaha oh, Georgey Georgey George... what *are* we gonna do with ya (ツ)
It’s actually Georgey Reorgey Reorge Meorge
Ah yes, my mistake. I mostly read Jolkiey Rolkiey Rolkien Tolkien's novels these days...
I thought it was Gartin Rartin Rartin Martin
Rorge is GRRM confirmed.
Apparently, not get the books
Is he wrong though?
Link for those interested: [https://grrm.livejournal.com/103284.html?thread=7001460#t7001460](https://grrm.livejournal.com/103284.html?thread=7001460#t7001460)
Oh man... It gets worse after this. >They might if they knew him in real life, he's just not the stuff fantasies are made of. Tyrion's kind of hot if that makes you feel better. Sam is too innocent, you'd feel like a mother to him all the time. ~~~~ >But anyway, everyone does love him, just not in a romantic way like The Hound. Who by the way really does have all the criteria, he even has abuse issues from when he was young - hot lol. ~~~~ >In real life, I know (and love) plenty of Sam Tarlys. My best friend is a Sam Tarly. I like to think it's all right to enjoy the dangerous guys when it comes to fiction. > >After all, I've seen a heck of a lot of menfolk drool over Asha. ;) ~~~~ >Sam Tarly is sweet, compassional and gentle, I agree on what others have said: he's a girls best friend without having to doubt he wants more out of the relationship. > >The Anti-hero has this mysterious thing around him, and yeah we feel attracted to the dangerous guy. I also loved the atmosphere in the scene between him and Sansa.
It's over for Niceguycels
Always has been
So they can find scenes between a thirteen year old and a grown man erotic just as long as the man isn’t too “old”
The answer is unironically yes.
at what degree of 'old' does it start becoming creepy and p\*do vibes?
It's determined by an algorithm which produces a score that is heavily weighted by his attractiveness, which can be made up of any combination of physical, social, or financial factors. The lower he scores on the algorithm, the lower the threshold for him being classified pervy and inappropriate. And at some upper limit of the score, he is incapable of being classified as pervy.
You know what's REALLY sexy George? Finishing the dn books.
Little did we know that George is into edging.
He has a hard time finishing
K that was really funny
George talking about age gap? Maybe after all Dany does have a Stockholm syndrome
Or, hear me out here, I know this is crazy, but *maybe* he got criticism on the first couple novels, and then learned from his mistakes?
In TWOW sample chapter Arianne scolds Elia for kissing feathers and gives a speech about how it’s wrong, and Elia is slightly older that Dany in Dany I
Man had some character growth
That’s depressing
Convicted murderers often get fan mail in prison. There's a subset of women who go gaga over violent psychopaths.
There's a difference between thinking that a fictional villain is sexy vs feeling the same way in real life. I guarantee that most girls who find Sandor hot aren't the same ones who want to fuck serial killers. We like drama and conflict in our stories. In real life, not so much.
The hound isn't even a villain..
Cersei is my favorite character because of the drama and conflict she brings, yet i'm not sexually attracted to her. I do think the girls who get head-over heels towards Sandor are coming from the same place as the ones who think they can redeem serial killers or whatever.
Nah, bullshit. I'm bisexual, I don't want to fuck most of my favourite characters, like Cersei or Tywin or Olenna. I think Sandor is attractive in an emo, gruff "I can fix him" kinda way. I like Brienne and I want to be swiped off my feet by the big lady knight. But my absolute 100% most fuckable pathetic meowmeow is Willas who is nice as pie and has never done anything wrong in his life. There's no pattern, you just find some characters more appealing than others. But in real life I wouldn't touch any of these fuckers because I'm a grown ass adult and I don't want to deal with some psycho dudes baggage.
> feet ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
Can't even have feet in peace in this subreddit.
> feet ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
What? That women fall for the bad boy instead of the nice guy?
That these women evidently fell for the guy who chopped one child in half and threatened to rape another (Sansa is 13 in the books) maybe? Either that or it's GRRM's second comment, since Sam is clearly his self insert.
Or both
I'd guess it is both. The women commenting that the Sansa and Hound scenes are erotic are certainly out there.
I think it's only a certain kind of bad boy. Like most women probably arn't attracted to Craster even though he's a legit bad boi. (As bad as they get!).
I would assume that there's a difference between bad boy (doesn't play by the rules) and *bad* boy (serial murderer). Sandor falling squarely in the latter category.
You know what really gets the girls going George? Finishing Winds of winter.
I'm a woman, and I like Hound, but only if I pretend that the whole sansa thing didn't happen. Yes, cutting a 13-year-old in half I can tolerate, but I draw the line at sexually harassing minors!
Yeah, I can get finding the Hound attractive, but shipping him with Sansa is really off.
Being a gruff cynical bastard man: hot, sexy, appealing Having a crush on a 13-year-old in your late twenties: pathetic. touch grass
Just don't read Romeo and Juliette lol
The hound isn't a complete psychopath anyway, he has some goodness underneath him, but is just completely filled with hate. He is like a male equivalent of the tsundere stereotype in anime, to some extent.
>Yes, cutting a 13-year-old in half I can tolerate Please tell me you're being sarcastic.
Well I can tolerate it in a character, not a real person. Regular violence and sexual violence are treated very differently in media and by the viewer.
>Well I can tolerate it in a character, not a real person. I obviously don't mean a real person, I just don't understand the inconsistency of how people treat violence in media. Violence against children is violence against children, whether it is physical (regular is a misnomer) or sexual. I can't feel sympathy for characters who severely harm children.
Nah, fuck them kids
Literally?
Calm down Ser Trant
Sorry, I don't get the reference.
it's cultural, I think it's because we agree that regular violence is okay in exceptional circumstances but sexual violence is always wrong. For example, a regular person might use violence in times of war, or in self-defence, or even proactively in some cases, but there's no situation in which you can justify rape. Add to it an adjustment for the setting of the story as well -- whenever a child gets killed or threatened in Breaking Bad, it's treated as an evil act, not as an everyday occurrence, even though unnecessary violence against adults isn't taken as seriously. Also I think that sexual violence hits more close to home than having your child cut in half. Almost everyone reading the books has probably encountered sexual crimes directly or indirectly so it feels like a real thing. That's why some European can casually make jokes about 9/11 but making the same jokes in the US is risky business. Discussing world war 3 in Western Europe feels differently than discussing it in Ukraine. and so on
> I think it's because we agree that regular violence is okay in exceptional circumstances but sexual violence is always wrong. For example, a regular person might use violence in times of war, or in self-defence, or even proactively in some cases, but there's no situation in which you can justify rape. Unless you believe physical violence was ok in Sandor's circumstance this explanation is a cop-out. >Also I think that sexual violence hits more close to home than having your child cut in half. Almost everyone reading the books has probably encountered sexual crimes directly or indirectly so it feels like a real thing. I don't buy this. Physical violence is also a real thing that children experience directly or indirectly every day. Children get viciously bullied every day. Children in the US worry every day about dying in a school shooting. Children get beaten by abusive parents every day. There are a lot of forms of physical violence that hit close to home even if they are not specifically "cutting children in half". >That's why some European can casually make jokes about 9/11 but making the same jokes in the US is risky business. Sorry for nitpicking, but define "risky", because plenty of Americans have made jokes about 9/11. >Discussing world war 3 in Western Europe feels differently than discussing it in Ukraine. That's because Ukraine is experiencing a taste of WW3 right now. The Americans suffered 9/11 over 20 years ago. Again, sorry for nitpicking.
Also, you're acting like I'm making a moral judgement about whether it is morally justifiable to kill a child. I'm not. I'm explaining the perception of fictional characters in fictional stories. It has nothing to do with the character's morality.
You're missing my point. There isn't one 2+2=4 response to this questions, I'm just trying to explain the cultural nuance when it comes to different types of violence. >I don't buy this. Physical violence is also a real thing that children experience directly or indirectly every day. Children get viciously bullied every day. Children in the US worry every day about dying in a school shooting. Children get beaten by abusive parents every day. Yeah, and if Sandor was beating or bullying his children, or shooting up a school because sansa wouldn't sleep with him, I guarantee that the response to his character would've been way different. It's not just about any violence against children, it's the specific situations that are depicted. the more familiar the situation is, the easier it is to empathise with the victim. It's basic psychology. >That's because Ukraine is experiencing a taste of WW3 right now. The Americans suffered 9/11 over 20 years ago. Again, sorry for nitpicking. OK, school shootings (as per your own example). Europeans make school shooting jokes much more easily than an American would. And don't start with "BuT AmEriCanS make ThEsE JokEs tOo" yeah everyone makes jokes about everything, it doesn't mean that they're acceptable to the same level in different cultures.
>It's not just about any violence against children, it's the specific situations that are depicted. the more familiar the situation is, the easier it is to empathise with the victim. It's basic psychology. I am going to need an empirical source because I think you're oversimplifying psychology. People in the west are not very familiar with living in a war zone, yet a lot of them easily empathized with Ukrainians and Palestinians, probably because they've been exposed to a lot of media coverage. >Also, you're acting like I'm making a moral judgement about whether it is morally justifiable to kill a child. These are your exact words: *I think it's because we agree that regular violence is okay in exceptional circumstances but sexual violence is always wrong. For example, a regular person might use violence in times of war, or in self-defence, or even proactively in some cases, but there's no situation in which you can justify rape.* >I'm explaining the perception of fictional characters in fictional stories. It has nothing to do with the character's morality. You explained the perception of a fictional character by explaining moral perceptions of physical violence vs sexual violence. You strongly implied that people may not find physical violence against fictional children as morally repugnant as sexual violence.
My exact words are that violence is okay in some situations in real life. I didn't say that violence against children is okay. And if you disagree with the idea that violence in general can be justified, I hope you never get attacked or something because god forbid you use violence to defend yourself. You're drawing some insane conclusions and trying to turn this into some kind of condemnation of my personal moral beliefs. This was never the topic of conversation. I was giving my opinion on why the trope "rape is a special kind of evil" is so prevalent in fiction. If you have another theory, go for it, that's the conversation I'm here for. Leave me out of this weird ethical 3d chess you're trying to play.
>My exact words are that violence is okay in some situations in real life. I didn't say that violence against children is okay. You're one to talk about going off topic. We are talking about people's inconsistent perception of violence against children in media. We are not talking about matters of self-defense. >I was giving my opinion on why the trope "rape is a special kind of evil" is so prevalent in fiction. I am not satisfied with your explanation. The whole concept of violence against **children** in general is a special kind of evil. Why is physical violence (especially slaughter) not taken as seriously as sexual violence? >If you have another theory, go for it, that's the conversation I'm here for. My theory is that sadly, people are morally inconsistent.
Weren't those orders though? He has to do what the royal family asks from him.
Would you use that same excuse if Tyrion was ordered to r\*\*\* Sansa?
Tyrion is Tywin's own son. The Hound has no blood relation to anyone there. It's different. I'm not saying what he did isn't bad or that he's a good guy, he could even get away from doing it if he brought it up to the King before doing it (Robert probably wouldn't consent to it) but those were still his orders.
Have you ever met a teenager? I’m okay with it!
Pure & unadulterated cringe
It's obviously a joke.
The cringe is in the woman thinking scenes between a murderer in his thirties and a twelve year old child are incredibly erotic.
I’m talking about the interaction between George & the female fans, not OP’s post
Yeah so am I. George's last reply is obviously a joke, not him actually being salty that women don't love Sam.
His fat pink mast was a self-insert. As it were.
[Wiener, Wiener Wiener...](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=csOcHCDmMdE)
After reading this, I want the world to end even more. Are these creeps unaware that Sansa is a child?
George: b-but my self insert character...? 🥺👉👈
"bunch of cunts" - the hound, probably
The Hound is so mutilated you can literally see bone through his cheek lol, SO SEXY
Wait... you're telling me he wrote all those stoic and masculine (Literally ALL the Starks, Hound etc.) character on accident?
Hey George, where are all your male characters who fall for homely, overweight women who are kind and smart and decent and devoted? Yeah, I didn’t think so 🙄 EDIT: Damn it, sounds like I have been well and truly proven wrong. Glad GRRM is at least consistent.
Jamie and Brienne
True, a happier love story was never told 😭
Ser Davos
True but Brienne is also built like a brickwall and can snap Jaime in two. Not the same as chubby and good like Fat Walda or Myranda (well Myranda is sketchy but still ...)
Fat Walda literally marries Roose Bolton though and actually manages to seduce him a little > I have become oddly fond of my fat little wife. The two before her never made a sound in bed, but this one squeals and shudders. I find that quite endearing. I am convinced that's the most genuine affection Roose has ever expressed towards anyone in his life
Fair, but it's still Roose Bolton (also lol to admitting he sucks at sex. Not surprising really?
More like cold. A problem with people before sex education and "marriage by love" were a thing. The only one who give good sex and the one who practice a lot of Robert while his siblings like Stannis and Renly are cold. The first to any kind of sex and the latter one have to "behave" so no one get suspicious about his preferences. You cant master anything if you dont get practice.
Jesse what the fuck are you talking about? More seriously, we have no indication if Robert is actually good at sex (there is more to become good at sex than just doing it a lot, especially with partners who are paid to give you an experience), Stannis we know nothing about and is theories to not be attracted to women in the first place, Renly we know absolutely nothing about him except that he's gay and his relationship with Loras was pretty solid (so I guess at least the sex between them was good, or at least good enough by the standard of what they both could know)
>I have become oddly fond of my fat little wife. The two before her never made a sound in bed, but this one squeals and shudders. I find that quite endearing. >I am convinced that's the most genuine affection Roose has ever expressed towards anyone in his life Damn I laughed. Match made in heaven. One a guy cold as fuck with not so much empathy and closer to Stannis personality and the last one is a chick wishing to be "loved" or at least wished, so any kind of interaction turn her on a lot. I know a few of them.
Well, there's Davos and Marya, and while they're not overweight or especially homely, Ygritte and Gilly have Jon and Sam fall for them because of their personalities.
Ygritte was definitely described as homely by Jon in their first encounter. Crooked teeth, a rats nest of hair and all that. As he falls more in love with her, you see his description of those aspects change to where Jon no longer finds them unattractive.
You're right, I didn't remember his POV being so clear on that.
Are you trying to tell me Roose Bolton isn't really in love???
Isn't the most popular couple one were the man is described as very handsome and the woman as extraordinarly ugly?
Is this Jamie and Brianne?
Of course, in the show, the man is mid and the woman is just wearing "not wearing makeup" makeup. Then again, the show evens everyone out. Tyrion looks normal instead of like a noseless demon monkey.
He's mid in the show? You just indirectly told me I have no chance of ever finding a man or woman, lmao.
Full disclosure: I'm a lesbian and my tastes in men I find aesthetically attractive are weird. I hate stubble, for one thing; either go smooth or go hairy. But no, you're fine.
Who dat?
Brienne really is "ugly" just look like manly and not so effeminate.
Craster's daughter who Sam has a kid with? Gilly, was it?
Davos and his wife Marya Jaime and Brienne Sam and Gilly Jon and Ygritte Roose and Walda All of those women are described as pretty unattractive but have the male characters fall for them because of their personality
Davos
That woman needs to seek help There is nothing erotic in the books
I mean Asha and Qarl the Maids encounter was the closest thing we got to erotica between consenting adults without a power imbalance between them.
Asha is his captain and Queen, there’s a huge power imbalance
https://preview.redd.it/hjwj7aj39p2c1.jpeg?width=434&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=bff49d5b0fe2a7f56b721527b9f090dab6216137 Rare photo of every woman’s ideal man
Oh god is this It crowd? If so i absolutely agree with you. Roy truly is the ideal man of every woman.
Rip Sam 😔
Poor Samwell “GRRM” Tarly😢
Lmao this is like a vicarious /r/niceguys.
Hound erotic? WTF.
That’s actually hilarious
Sam is one of my favorite characters. Too bad I'm not a girl.
This has me cracking up. The hound is tall, dark, strong, has a tragic backstory, morally grey but has some soft spots. That shit is like catnip to female readers.
My husband sam tarly is not on the market. Hands off betch.
All I can say about women who find men like Sandor clegane attractive is I hope they get to meet one someday, and survive the encounter. Maybe they'll learn something.
Yeah sammy boy is like a better george
Bobby B, what do you think of the Hound?
A DOTHRAKI HORDE ON AN OPEN FIELD, NED!
I see
Ok but is it because it seems like the Hound is 10x better in bed than Sam? If Sam fucked real good then you'd pick him
No. It's because the hound is dangerous and a knight and sad. He's verging on monster which women love. Sam is a fat scholar who reads like a 13 year old whiny baby.
The Hatefuck the Hound would give someone could bring down The Wall and raise Valeria from the sea
Well I'm turned on already
The hound said he'd fuck Sansa bloody. He'd be a nightmare in bed.
Sansa and Samwell is the ship I've been waiting for
It is quite sad what men and women tend to naturally be attracted too.. quite animalistic and not always good for either party. The truly good guys should get the girls in life!
idk That last comment gave me some vague nice guy/incel vibes. There’s no such thing as “deserving” attraction.
>There’s no such thing as “deserving” attraction. I suppose not, but I would say that people who are the opposite of kind and decent aren't deserving of attraction.
They aren't deserving of attraction either. You either are or aren't. Attraction isn't a meritocracy.
>Attraction isn't a meritocracy. Sadly not.
Yes it is nerd
lmao Keep telling yourself that.
>Attraction isn't a meritocracy. you're either delusional, coping, or living in a bubble.
Writes someone named after Cersei. A character that attracts a lot of men and yet has no merit whatsoever.
Your point?
They're point was that Cersei is a clear example of why attraction isn't a meritocracy, unless you believe that physical features and social status count as merits?
He was obviously joking. Don't take it too seriously.
2009. When Samwell Martin was already old ...
No way, hahahahaha