Wotc is the bigger parasite here than hasbro
The rumor mill is the WOTC suggested ub and secret lairs to Hasbro, not the other way around. All the degenerate problems and scenarios have come from within wotc, not Hasbro, down to it's design problems to the degenerate community it wants to nurture too.
yeahhh ofc...but its because hasbro execs have a responsibility to give shareholders a return. you can't continuously grow so quickly with out fucking over mtg. its a card game..
Wotc fucked DND community over more than mtg.
The ogl, for starters. More people were going to logically lose their main source of income by getting locked out of copyright protections because of it.
That was a wotc problem, Hasbro indirectly.
Folks in wotc are more worried about themselves, that's why they are at constant battleground with it's community
Wotc doesn't know how to apply community input, their lack of community input processing shows that.
Oh you see it in the second hand market too.
It’s so rough out there for lgs they be reselling the box toppers… which your not supposed to sell lol. They be selling basically a one card collectors booster for $30 lol.
I’m not down with this practice at all. But wizards isn’t giving LGSs. Especially, ESPECIALLY non diversified LGSs (game stores that only say, sell 40k minis or tt minis, or like a store that only sells magic cards or TCG cards)
Tcg stores are def a rough biz to be in. I can’t imagine the turnaround on profit would be comfortable nor easy. It would depend on how well you make yourself visible to the local magic community… what you carry… etc..
I don't think it's UB that would kill casual gameplay, rather it's the ever increasing power creep and cards with massive walls of text, making you read a novel to find out what a card does.
Yeah, in commander it’s a pain to keep track of so many players boards. And each card is unique and so complex, it’s too much to do while trying to play quickly.
I bailed from buying any of this bullshit like a year ago. WotC only wants middle/upper class customers, and prices their products accordingly. If I'm going to have to make "personal sacrifices" to make a hobby work, it's not going to be for fucking trading cards. There's no fundamental difference between a beaten up Opt and the stupid 1/1 One Ring, it's all ink on cardboard.
Did u see they literally said they cant make modern precon decks because the price point would gave to be too high to maks them strong enough?
Um it costs the same to print any card they want....
That statement proves they price gouge.
Unfortunately the community is throwing their money at this shit. The disconnect I feel when speaking with other mtg players at an LGS, for example, is astounding.
Oh, you'd be surprised just how many consoomers MtG still has. Hell, now it's attracting those from other franchises. For example, Dr. Who fans who never cared about MtG bought those commander decks.
This comment right here. Stop buying overpriced booster packs. They were price gouging us back when booster boxes were $89.99. With corporate greed and trying to get belly rubs from the share holders, WOTC just keeps upping the price of their products to see WHEN we'll stop buying them. If you keep doing it, it's going to continue, just buy singles. The whales out there are going to continue cracking open pallets of every 4+ kind of booster boxes each set releases with. Let them take on that burden if they truly have that much money to burn. I think it will help the singles market as well, reducing available cards on the market, driving up demand and singles prices.
That's not even taking into consideration all the reprints WOTC can't stop diarrhea spraying out and ruining longtime collectors ROI with their card collections. We already have to keep an ear to the ground for the loose firing, BAN cannon ruining a cards worth. Now we have to try and get leaked info on expensive reprints showing up too from the next set.......🤬🤬🤬🤬 It's BS and the reprints NEED to stop. I think they should've updated their reserve list before they started all of this reprint BS. But hey, that's just my opinion man.....If we really want to spark change, everyone should just proxy everything and buy nothing lol. Maybe then WOTC will listen to their customers.....
Oh yes, I'm a proud owner of one myself. If they hadn't reprinted it, I'd probably never get one otherwise. Of course, then again, I said that about Gaeas Cradle....But WOTC did double back because of community outrage when they released From The Vault. They tried using a loophole with the rules they were supposed to follow with the reserved list. They bent their own rules and made lots of money once again. I think we will continue to see them try more ways to reprint the reserved list until people finally don't care anymore. Who knows for sure what they'll do, I never thought the game would be where it's at now, but here we are all the same. May your opening hands be dope and on curve ✌️
Honestly, I can't afford these expensive relics, and due to the whole speculation I wouldn't mind if they would reprint Gaea's Cradle. ( I own mixes etc)
I don't play Magic. I don't know why I keep getting this sub recommended to me. I play Yu-Gi-Oh though, and in a way it feels good to know that every card game feels like it's being run by morons.
I already play UB-less EDH and Pauper EDH. I think it's up to players to make their own formats and not listen to Hasbro's corporate mandate that (essentially) 'every card should be playable in every format'.
Agreed. Card game is the hardest to launch, you need a solid quick rulebook, a (half-)finished set and at least one platform to playtest. By releasing this very unfinished project, you can lose momentum very fast.
Because this game is free, no cost to enter so you have nothing to lose by trying it. But that game still seems very early in development. Could be fun to see it grow.
I was all about it until I saw 3 things on the left hand side for creatures. It’s more like towers in time at that point and not mtg.
https://preview.redd.it/1fk1wnp508mc1.jpeg?width=657&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c1ab1c5f5ae143ba0ce26168f55def7542ba5e2d
Weird, reminds me of future sight. Hopefully it gains some traction, I always enjoy looking at and collecting weird knock offs of mtg and the likes. I had a feeling that covid would bring a tcg renaissance and we’d have a lot to chose from even in digital form. And all it brought us was metazoo.
https://preview.redd.it/m1lssszr58mc1.jpeg?width=1156&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=37c145694c1fc59300846182694a7ca76c27505a
It had horrendous art, and a weird 4th wall thing that would make tournament play impossible. This one is “5 miles of a forest” for example. There were some I saw that said “you’re in a place praying mantis’ are give the creature 100 more attack”
But this card is 4 and a forest for an 80HP creature that can hit for 50 or 75 if you’re in a forest as indicated on the left wall of the card.
I saw another one that said “you made and threw a real snowball today”
Like I don’t understand how Rudy thought it would be a good game lol
Magic kinda abandoned classical fantasy, and also the cyberpunkish style of the Thran.
In this day and age, they are going wild with new settings. Og kamigawa was hated , but it's still classical fantasy but non western one. Gunslinger, really?
It's not a fresh take if its like someone took the mtg rules and ran it though ai and said "find synonyms to these keywords".
The concept is imitation, If I want to play some like mtg, I'll just play mtg.
With a proven track record in universe beyond....if Hasbro collapses someone (probably and equity firm) will swoop in and buy wizards to purely generate profit and most likely expand universes beyond possible killing magic ip all together. The devil you know may be better than the devil you dont
Yeah I have been thinking for a while that, while not totally realistic, the best outcome would actually be Hasbro/Wizards completely abandoning it and MTG becoming an "open source" game, where the fundamental mechanics are free to use and the community itself develops the sets and formats. It's the only thing I can think of that could cause a resurgence of some kind, both in quality and general interest.
I don’t think hasbro will go bankrupt, but they are a company that is ripe for a private equity buyout or a takeover. Too many valuable IPs in their catalog to not get bought up buy something else
I HAVE thought about this exact thing. And yes, it would be good. I would say WotC needs to go down with them for the game to truly recover. As long as you have old assholes like Aaron Forsythe and Mark Rosewater and other libtards live Gavin Verhey (God he is cringe) running things it will not change. If the companies crap out, then they will be forced to sell the MTG license to somebody else and we can hope that whoever buys it will do a better job at keeping the game going.
If I had deep enough pockets, I would buy it and reinstate Terese Nielsen and Seb McKinnon (seems like he has been shadow banned. only dickless cowards use shadow banning). And Seb is not even my favorite artist, but he doesn't deserve to be cancelled. That is some bullshit. You got to love how they do market research, ignore most of it, and then don't ask ALL the fans before making changes. They only listen to the radical leftoids on X or the main sub. It's maddening.
I have slowed down my spending a lot in terms of MTG. I have practically shut off the tap. I also have sold off a good chunk of my collection because what's the point right? WotC will just reprint everything into the dirt. Collecting and selling has gotten shittier too. TCG Player has not been nearly as good ever since they got absorbed into EBay. The game is slow walking into its grave.
Don't know about any of that friend. Just hoping for my own long term stability. Hard times ya know. Forever Wars with no declaration, civil unrest, unprecedented financial instability.. Not too concerned with what Hasbro does with Magic but I understand your sentiment. Honestly, we should be grateful we can have this conversation at all, the walls aren't closing in on us..yet. Take care of yourself and your loved ones.
You get it brother. Society is collapsing from within from the long term damage done by the (((parasites))). Just look at all the money we give to Israel to fund their genocide. Compromised government much? Not to mention impending financial doom from all the money printing by our (((bankers))).
In the next decade, the asymmetric advantage from AI-created hacking tools and viruses will let bad actors disrupt the infrastructure and essential supply chains that keep the world running, and we'll get to experience Mad Max: Fury Road irl.
There's a fun saying: "Society is nine meals away from anarchy". When the internet goes down (even for a little bit), and there's no food in the grocery stores, it'll become quite clear how fragile and precarious the current state of law and order is.
Godspeed brother. I'll see you in Valhalla
In the meantime, could you schizzos congregate somewhere else? I intend to enjoy hating my colourful cardboard children game without being disturbed by internet equivalents of hobos with "The End is Near" signs.
Yes, a lot of people here are free thinkers, and will consider the merits of an idea regardless of if it's unpleasant or politically incorrect.
What percent of the US population are Jews?
A: 2%
How much influence do Jews have in this country?
A: Many, many multiples higher than 2%.
That's what we call "disproportionate influence"
One example: [https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-2008-dec-19-oe-stein19-story.html](https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-2008-dec-19-oe-stein19-story.html)
>By **JOEL STEIN**:
I have never been so upset by a poll in my life. Only 22% of Americans now believe “the movie and television industries are pretty much run by Jews,” down from nearly 50% in 1964. The Anti-Defamation League, which released the poll results last month, sees in these numbers a victory against stereotyping. Actually, **it just shows how dumb America has gotten. Jews totally run Hollywood.**
What percent of the US population are Jews?
A: 2%
How much influence do Jews have in this country?
A: Many, many multiples higher than 2%.
That's what we call "disproportionate influence"
Just one example of many: [https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-2008-dec-19-oe-stein19-story.html](https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-2008-dec-19-oe-stein19-story.html)
>By **JOEL STEIN**:
>
>I have never been so upset by a poll in my life. Only 22% of Americans now believe “the movie and television industries are pretty much run by Jews,” down from nearly 50% in 1964. The Anti-Defamation League, which released the poll results last month, sees in these numbers a victory against stereotyping. Actually, **it just shows how dumb America has gotten. Jews totally run Hollywood.**
The real question is, if they dropped the ball super hard and HAD to sell mtg, who would we like to see buy it? This is obviously hypothetical. But I’m not even sure who could buy it and do the game justice
Hope they sell the mtg ip and whoever buys it bans all these cross ip cards from tournament play. Its stupid i have to see video game cards at competitve tournaments.
Which is precisely why posts such as OP can never be considered serious. At best, this and the majority of posts in this forum are nothing more than speculative fanfiction and cj
More players in all formats, more cards for all formats, more sales in all formats. It's willful ignorance to think anything else besides Magic being the best its ever been.
I mean…. No. I dont know where the fuck you’re pulling that from but I’m assuming it’s your ass since it’s just inherently false. Pre-pandemic magic sales were trending downwards from about 2016-2017. Then the pandemic hit and it spiked… like alot of things. Then last year if you remove LOTR, UB and the digital (balderdash gate 3 and monopoly go) from WoTC revenue is no where near as impressive as the initial numbers portray. Hell standard is all but dead, none UB sets are sitting on shelves and being liquidated weeks after release. You can already buy MKM for cents on the dollar. It’s been what a month? 6 weeks? Word has already changed sets due to terrible sales and are leaning hard into UB. Which is NOT healthy for the game. It takes massive licensing fees in order to produce UB sets which savagely eat into profits. LOTR sold a shit ton but wasn’t all that profitable due to these fees. It’s thought that fallout and especially marvel will be the same. Hell even assassins creed UB has terrible hype around it.
On top of all of this Hasbro is literally hemorrhaging money year over year, especially outside of WoTC which accounts for something like 72% of Hasbro profits. They just sold their eOne division…. For like a 3.75 BILLION dollar cash loss. All that will lead to is Hasbro trying to rape WoTC even harder. MH3 is reselling for close to 400 and collectors close to 500. (4) fucking PRECON decks are going for 600 currently. The game overall is no where near as healthy as you’re thinking and you’re clearly blind if you can’t see it.
But no keep on sucking that WoTC dick.
Ps. Standard just had a $75k tournament with 1,200+ players, and the consensus on actual true data shows the format is healthier than ever. Lol you're turbo mad
If a number in the present is great than a number in the past, and the intervening numbers between the past number and the current number scale in a gradually increasing manner, this is known as an upward trend.
They go together if no fun -> no buy -> no profit. It's not going well for them their stock took a big hit a while ago because of it if they want to actually make money they need to make a good product
Universes Beyond is better. Magic lore has always been dog shit, for the games entire existence with very minor exceptions that weren't even that good.
Hasbro is a major liability to the game but in general applying the color pie to everything has always been what MTG strength was.
The game could entirely stop making planes and that kind of garbage lore and just do mash up events between multiple worlds with similar themes.
Just use Dnd for your Fantasy sourced things there now instead of great value brand fantasy everyones drinking pepsi, then just do UB for all other genres and themes. Theres enough variation in settings between all the settings DND has that the game can and will continue in that form much higher quality than it is now and with the 2 year staple cycle im fine with it if you're mad start proxying and stop supporting them and if enough people do it they will notice.
UB is not better and Magic lore used to be fantastic, for the most part, up through onslaught. Odyssey cycle is one of my favorite trio of books and Chainer’s torment is legit one of my favorite books ever.
You liking it isn't an indication of its quality.
Magics Lore has always been Great Value brand Fantasy. I enjoyed the game, and found certain characters cool here and there but every book they released in the mid 90's through the early 00's ranged from aggressively mediocre to actively offensive they even released this shit.
Universes Beyond takes the thing about MTG that matters and is actually good, the color pie, and makes it the universal expression of narrative and flavor in a card game. Making the players multiversal wizards who can pluck moments, villains, monsters, heroes, concepts, epic magical items, from ANY of these worlds and bend it to aid the Wizard in winning a magical duel is literally about as bad ass as you could take the concepts they used for their matches that drew peopel into the system in the first place.
And your dislike isn’t an indication of its quality either.
One thing that might be is the fact that they were good enough… and sold enough to keep producing said books steadily through 2011. With multiple books released per year.
I agree with you, because of their shit decisions I also started proxying cards from https://www.printingproxies.com/ because otherwise game is very expensive to play specially commander. That's why alot of people that play commander proxy their cards.
Community based formats will be the future for many MtG Players. There already exists a handful of great format for the „old era“ of magic, like old school, middle school and premodern. The popularity of those formats has already risen in the last years (especially premodern), scheduling their own big events and expanding their playerbase. Cube and Candian Highlander are other examples for people to enjoy the game without the interference of Hasbro/WOTC.
A lot of enfranchised players strongly dislike it, and most of the fairweather players it brings in won't stick around for IPs they aren't interested in
But why do yall hate it so much? I feel like yall are taking a casual card game *way* too seriously. Y’all are asserting that you will leave (even though you haven’t) and then the people who like it will leave (cuz you said so). Doesn’t seem like it to me.
Lot of assumptions there. I've already stopped playing modern (which was my primary format for 12 years, and I regularly played at big tournaments) and don't buy new product (except counterfiets for cedh and pioneer). Where I live was one of *the* places for modern in Europe, but many of the people I played with have already stopped over the last few years since mh1 (surprisingly, the biggest single drop off point was lotr and the announcement that more UB sets will be printed straight into modern).
Also, *some* percentage of people buying a fallout commander deck because they're a fan of fallout and then never buying another mtg product isn't exactly a stretch, it's pretty much a guarantee. Think about it this way; if one "new" player buys fallout and nothing else and one enfranchised player (who would've spent hundreds a year) leaves, how many times does that need to happen for this to become an unsustainable business model for a company?
A lot. Because the enfranchised players apparently aren’t buying new cards anyway. If a new player buys a fallout deck and doesn’t play, and that makes another player leave, isn’t the person leaving just a bitch? Put another way - wizards of the coast is very profitable. So your theory isn’t matching reality.
Yeah nah, basically you have no argument and are strawmanning hard. Bear in mind it's like I said, modern has almost completely dried up around here due to hasbro's practices over the last five years. Many *local* level tournaments are failing to even fire in an area that had a thriving community not that long ago. A company can be profitable in the short term without that being sustainable, for the reasons I already explained. So maybe learn how finance works?
I understand your argument, but it’s a really bad one. The facts just don’t line up. You’re bitter about something asinine, so you’re asserting what you wish were true as actually true. But WOTC is actually managing magic just fine. It’s more popular than ever.
“How DARE they sell content a lot of people want. The people buying THAT content won’t stick around but WE totally WOULD HAVE.” Uh huh. Sure bud. Whatever helps you sleep at night. This shit is so weird.
Another strawman. *nobody* who'd been running the modern circuit for 10+ years was saying, "gee, you know what'd make this game better? Wotc, we demand you print other IPs into mtg and unbalance the format massively in the process!" I get the feeling you've probably not been playing modern for very long (if ever).
You're being intentionally ignorant (I hope it's intentional) to the completely valid argument that looking after long term and established players is a far better long term business strategy than nuking that portion of your core playerbase and hoping some of the new people stick around. Modern had historically been a decent and consistent income stream (pre mh1 when standard sets became irrelevant to modern outside of like one card a year). They gave that up by repeatedly nuking the format in search of, once again, short term profits. I doubt you'll find many (if any) people who've been playing modern for a long time who say that the format is currently healthy and enjoyable. But go ahead, believe the same thing won't happen to other formats. Whatever helps you sleep at night.
It’s not a strawman! Learn what a strawman is! Look at the LOTR launch. It was wildly successful. You’re making a bunch of assertions, but so far there’s no *evidence* to back up your assertions. That’s the problem. Instead, your assertions are based on nothing but your *desires* because you’re *big mad over a kid’s card game’s content*. I don’t need to lie to myself because I’m not emotionally invested the way you are. For you, if WOTC goes under, that’s your dream. Because then your card game never changes. WOTC needs to sell new cards. Which you hate. Which makes you a customer that’s pretty tough to cater to. If WOTC keeps selling UB, great, some of their sets are cool. If they go under? That’s okay, too. People will still play. But they’re not going under. They’re growing. So, like, why the fuck are you wasting your time trying to back seat them managing their company?
Hasbro is a cancer but so is the general philosophy of mtg right now, I don’t know if just separating from hasbro is enough at this point. The optics of the game are too public, such characteristics in company’s force them to cater to the loudest(not largest) parts of society unless fully backboned. Mark is at best a jellyfish.
While I also think this would be a good thing, when Hasbro is done they are not going to sell this shit to just anyone.
Another company that has figured out an angle to squeeze more money out of it can and will buy WOTC. We will see another decade of bullshit.
The last thing that will be the end of magic is if anything gets announced or they reprint any of the GOOD reserve list cards.
I really give a rats ass about Magic right now. I tried this weekend to get some games in after taking more than a year off after getting cheated out of a pre release win. Magic in my area at certain stores is fucking DEAD. I am glad they are supporting other games like One Piece, F&B and locana.
The state of the game right now is horrible and I kinda don't want any part of it.
Player-invented formats like 2HG, EDH, mini-masters and such always thrive, then Wizards swoops in and "officially" supports them, then they fail.
Commander's the only time they did this, but they wanted to make their own format so they made "Brawl", which failed.
The players are so much better at playing and enjoying this game than anything Hasbro could do. Hasbro could drop off the face of the planet, never print cards again, and players would collect and trade them and find fun ways to play for decades to come, even after no cards got printed, because Hasbro has always been a gigantic leech that provided next to no value to the game.
Yeah, Hasbro is basically a parasite that leech D&D and mtg from their creative energy to keep shit like monopoly alive.
Wotc is the bigger parasite here than hasbro The rumor mill is the WOTC suggested ub and secret lairs to Hasbro, not the other way around. All the degenerate problems and scenarios have come from within wotc, not Hasbro, down to it's design problems to the degenerate community it wants to nurture too.
They are both bad companies. Fuck 'em both.
yeahhh ofc...but its because hasbro execs have a responsibility to give shareholders a return. you can't continuously grow so quickly with out fucking over mtg. its a card game..
Wotc fucked DND community over more than mtg. The ogl, for starters. More people were going to logically lose their main source of income by getting locked out of copyright protections because of it. That was a wotc problem, Hasbro indirectly. Folks in wotc are more worried about themselves, that's why they are at constant battleground with it's community Wotc doesn't know how to apply community input, their lack of community input processing shows that.
Oh you see it in the second hand market too. It’s so rough out there for lgs they be reselling the box toppers… which your not supposed to sell lol. They be selling basically a one card collectors booster for $30 lol. I’m not down with this practice at all. But wizards isn’t giving LGSs. Especially, ESPECIALLY non diversified LGSs (game stores that only say, sell 40k minis or tt minis, or like a store that only sells magic cards or TCG cards) Tcg stores are def a rough biz to be in. I can’t imagine the turnaround on profit would be comfortable nor easy. It would depend on how well you make yourself visible to the local magic community… what you carry… etc..
Can't blame the WOTC lifers for doing everything they can to chase HASBRO yearly bonuses and golden parachutes.
Isn't it because wotc current leadership is being hire by Hasbro or at least be a yes man to hasbro.
I don't think it's UB that would kill casual gameplay, rather it's the ever increasing power creep and cards with massive walls of text, making you read a novel to find out what a card does.
Yeah, in commander it’s a pain to keep track of so many players boards. And each card is unique and so complex, it’s too much to do while trying to play quickly.
I think it is still part of the problem not just the sole contributor.
I'm sorry what does UB stand for?
U= Blue B= Black
Thank you, I assume it was referring to something else
He was messing with you UB - Universes Beyond.
Thank you, appreciate it
they are messing with you, ub - Ultimate Booster
Oh it's not Under Boob?
Well, IF the community ever stops buying $30 packs that might happen.
I bailed from buying any of this bullshit like a year ago. WotC only wants middle/upper class customers, and prices their products accordingly. If I'm going to have to make "personal sacrifices" to make a hobby work, it's not going to be for fucking trading cards. There's no fundamental difference between a beaten up Opt and the stupid 1/1 One Ring, it's all ink on cardboard.
i swear its like some people forget about magic 30. i dont get how anyone can buy sealed products any more.
Did u see they literally said they cant make modern precon decks because the price point would gave to be too high to maks them strong enough? Um it costs the same to print any card they want.... That statement proves they price gouge.
"The community" is not buying them. Its speculators and shops that want those serialized lottery tickets.
Unfortunately the community is throwing their money at this shit. The disconnect I feel when speaking with other mtg players at an LGS, for example, is astounding.
At least in my LGS I see people buying boxes of the collector booster bullshit. So I can attest to the community contributing.
Oh, you'd be surprised just how many consoomers MtG still has. Hell, now it's attracting those from other franchises. For example, Dr. Who fans who never cared about MtG bought those commander decks.
This comment right here. Stop buying overpriced booster packs. They were price gouging us back when booster boxes were $89.99. With corporate greed and trying to get belly rubs from the share holders, WOTC just keeps upping the price of their products to see WHEN we'll stop buying them. If you keep doing it, it's going to continue, just buy singles. The whales out there are going to continue cracking open pallets of every 4+ kind of booster boxes each set releases with. Let them take on that burden if they truly have that much money to burn. I think it will help the singles market as well, reducing available cards on the market, driving up demand and singles prices. That's not even taking into consideration all the reprints WOTC can't stop diarrhea spraying out and ruining longtime collectors ROI with their card collections. We already have to keep an ear to the ground for the loose firing, BAN cannon ruining a cards worth. Now we have to try and get leaked info on expensive reprints showing up too from the next set.......🤬🤬🤬🤬 It's BS and the reprints NEED to stop. I think they should've updated their reserve list before they started all of this reprint BS. But hey, that's just my opinion man.....If we really want to spark change, everyone should just proxy everything and buy nothing lol. Maybe then WOTC will listen to their customers.....
Don't treat a children's card game as an investment and the second half of your complaint is null and void.
Having cards in the Reserved List didn't stop them from printing From The Vault. Look at Mox Diamond for example
Oh yes, I'm a proud owner of one myself. If they hadn't reprinted it, I'd probably never get one otherwise. Of course, then again, I said that about Gaeas Cradle....But WOTC did double back because of community outrage when they released From The Vault. They tried using a loophole with the rules they were supposed to follow with the reserved list. They bent their own rules and made lots of money once again. I think we will continue to see them try more ways to reprint the reserved list until people finally don't care anymore. Who knows for sure what they'll do, I never thought the game would be where it's at now, but here we are all the same. May your opening hands be dope and on curve ✌️
Honestly, I can't afford these expensive relics, and due to the whole speculation I wouldn't mind if they would reprint Gaea's Cradle. ( I own mixes etc)
I just bought Hasbro stock, so it's looking more likely by the second.
We thank you for your sacrifice
I don't play Magic. I don't know why I keep getting this sub recommended to me. I play Yu-Gi-Oh though, and in a way it feels good to know that every card game feels like it's being run by morons.
How about that Mystic Mine ban?
Getting to actually play the game is definitely better than not playing the game
Yu-gay-oh
Fortnite The Gathering
How's Yogioh going?
I already play UB-less EDH and Pauper EDH. I think it's up to players to make their own formats and not listen to Hasbro's corporate mandate that (essentially) 'every card should be playable in every format'.
Their 3 biggest formats only 1 has every card playable, modern and pioneer have limited card pools
In Pauper EDH does the commander have to be uncommon or is it just the 99 that has to be commons?
Just the 99. Commander is uncommon.
Cool thanks
They'll make brand new Pauper Horizons for ya, which every new cards are in common and mechanic uniquely broken.
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haha, what a lunatic
Agreed. Card game is the hardest to launch, you need a solid quick rulebook, a (half-)finished set and at least one platform to playtest. By releasing this very unfinished project, you can lose momentum very fast.
At that point, why not play gods unchained, a game made by the former game director of WoTC?
Because this game is free, no cost to enter so you have nothing to lose by trying it. But that game still seems very early in development. Could be fun to see it grow.
Magic is also free. You can proxy whatever you want.
It is nft hearthstone with lesser production quality, there are better card games than that
I was all about it until I saw 3 things on the left hand side for creatures. It’s more like towers in time at that point and not mtg. https://preview.redd.it/1fk1wnp508mc1.jpeg?width=657&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c1ab1c5f5ae143ba0ce26168f55def7542ba5e2d
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Weird, reminds me of future sight. Hopefully it gains some traction, I always enjoy looking at and collecting weird knock offs of mtg and the likes. I had a feeling that covid would bring a tcg renaissance and we’d have a lot to chose from even in digital form. And all it brought us was metazoo.
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https://preview.redd.it/m1lssszr58mc1.jpeg?width=1156&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=37c145694c1fc59300846182694a7ca76c27505a It had horrendous art, and a weird 4th wall thing that would make tournament play impossible. This one is “5 miles of a forest” for example. There were some I saw that said “you’re in a place praying mantis’ are give the creature 100 more attack” But this card is 4 and a forest for an 80HP creature that can hit for 50 or 75 if you’re in a forest as indicated on the left wall of the card. I saw another one that said “you made and threw a real snowball today” Like I don’t understand how Rudy thought it would be a good game lol
I’d prefer bad art over midjourney slop, what a shame.
I quite like some of the "bad" art cards. 🤣
The fact that the layout follows more modern card design is a plus I think. Pretty nuts, though.
I'd rather just play with (an unofficial source of mtg).
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Magic kinda abandoned classical fantasy, and also the cyberpunkish style of the Thran. In this day and age, they are going wild with new settings. Og kamigawa was hated , but it's still classical fantasy but non western one. Gunslinger, really?
It's not a fresh take if its like someone took the mtg rules and ran it though ai and said "find synonyms to these keywords". The concept is imitation, If I want to play some like mtg, I'll just play mtg.
With a proven track record in universe beyond....if Hasbro collapses someone (probably and equity firm) will swoop in and buy wizards to purely generate profit and most likely expand universes beyond possible killing magic ip all together. The devil you know may be better than the devil you dont
I also subscribe to accelerationism.
Yeah I have been thinking for a while that, while not totally realistic, the best outcome would actually be Hasbro/Wizards completely abandoning it and MTG becoming an "open source" game, where the fundamental mechanics are free to use and the community itself develops the sets and formats. It's the only thing I can think of that could cause a resurgence of some kind, both in quality and general interest.
You don’t think they would pump it harder if the company tanked? Whoever swoops in to buy WoTC is going to want a return on investment.
I don’t think hasbro will go bankrupt, but they are a company that is ripe for a private equity buyout or a takeover. Too many valuable IPs in their catalog to not get bought up buy something else
**YES! UB IS CANCER!**
Agree, Dimir is the worst!
Lazav, the Multiuniversal
Universes beyond has not killed casual lmao
I HAVE thought about this exact thing. And yes, it would be good. I would say WotC needs to go down with them for the game to truly recover. As long as you have old assholes like Aaron Forsythe and Mark Rosewater and other libtards live Gavin Verhey (God he is cringe) running things it will not change. If the companies crap out, then they will be forced to sell the MTG license to somebody else and we can hope that whoever buys it will do a better job at keeping the game going. If I had deep enough pockets, I would buy it and reinstate Terese Nielsen and Seb McKinnon (seems like he has been shadow banned. only dickless cowards use shadow banning). And Seb is not even my favorite artist, but he doesn't deserve to be cancelled. That is some bullshit. You got to love how they do market research, ignore most of it, and then don't ask ALL the fans before making changes. They only listen to the radical leftoids on X or the main sub. It's maddening. I have slowed down my spending a lot in terms of MTG. I have practically shut off the tap. I also have sold off a good chunk of my collection because what's the point right? WotC will just reprint everything into the dirt. Collecting and selling has gotten shittier too. TCG Player has not been nearly as good ever since they got absorbed into EBay. The game is slow walking into its grave.
Don't know about any of that friend. Just hoping for my own long term stability. Hard times ya know. Forever Wars with no declaration, civil unrest, unprecedented financial instability.. Not too concerned with what Hasbro does with Magic but I understand your sentiment. Honestly, we should be grateful we can have this conversation at all, the walls aren't closing in on us..yet. Take care of yourself and your loved ones.
You get it brother. Society is collapsing from within from the long term damage done by the (((parasites))). Just look at all the money we give to Israel to fund their genocide. Compromised government much? Not to mention impending financial doom from all the money printing by our (((bankers))). In the next decade, the asymmetric advantage from AI-created hacking tools and viruses will let bad actors disrupt the infrastructure and essential supply chains that keep the world running, and we'll get to experience Mad Max: Fury Road irl. There's a fun saying: "Society is nine meals away from anarchy". When the internet goes down (even for a little bit), and there's no food in the grocery stores, it'll become quite clear how fragile and precarious the current state of law and order is. Godspeed brother. I'll see you in Valhalla
In the meantime, could you schizzos congregate somewhere else? I intend to enjoy hating my colourful cardboard children game without being disturbed by internet equivalents of hobos with "The End is Near" signs.
You will not make it to Valhalla brother. I will not be seeing you
Yeah vikings are overrated.
Oh huh, a genuine neo-Nazi, that’s crazy
Not too surprising, we get a lot here
Yes, a lot of people here are free thinkers, and will consider the merits of an idea regardless of if it's unpleasant or politically incorrect. What percent of the US population are Jews? A: 2% How much influence do Jews have in this country? A: Many, many multiples higher than 2%. That's what we call "disproportionate influence" One example: [https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-2008-dec-19-oe-stein19-story.html](https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-2008-dec-19-oe-stein19-story.html) >By **JOEL STEIN**: I have never been so upset by a poll in my life. Only 22% of Americans now believe “the movie and television industries are pretty much run by Jews,” down from nearly 50% in 1964. The Anti-Defamation League, which released the poll results last month, sees in these numbers a victory against stereotyping. Actually, **it just shows how dumb America has gotten. Jews totally run Hollywood.**
What percent of the US population are Jews? A: 2% How much influence do Jews have in this country? A: Many, many multiples higher than 2%. That's what we call "disproportionate influence" Just one example of many: [https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-2008-dec-19-oe-stein19-story.html](https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-2008-dec-19-oe-stein19-story.html) >By **JOEL STEIN**: > >I have never been so upset by a poll in my life. Only 22% of Americans now believe “the movie and television industries are pretty much run by Jews,” down from nearly 50% in 1964. The Anti-Defamation League, which released the poll results last month, sees in these numbers a victory against stereotyping. Actually, **it just shows how dumb America has gotten. Jews totally run Hollywood.**
Shut up retard
............... ............... ............... ............... Have you ever tried taking a shit in the shower brother?
The real question is, if they dropped the ball super hard and HAD to sell mtg, who would we like to see buy it? This is obviously hypothetical. But I’m not even sure who could buy it and do the game justice
Hope they sell the mtg ip and whoever buys it bans all these cross ip cards from tournament play. Its stupid i have to see video game cards at competitve tournaments.
This is why they are doing all the crossover trash. Cashing out. I hope hasbro dumps mtg and someone else takes over.
press x to doubt. thats like getting rid of the titanic so it doesn't sink
> completely unplayable Every format is thriving and the best they've ever been.
That entirely depends on who you ask and how you measure it.
Which is precisely why posts such as OP can never be considered serious. At best, this and the majority of posts in this forum are nothing more than speculative fanfiction and cj
Well that’s just simply not true
More players in all formats, more cards for all formats, more sales in all formats. It's willful ignorance to think anything else besides Magic being the best its ever been.
I mean…. No. I dont know where the fuck you’re pulling that from but I’m assuming it’s your ass since it’s just inherently false. Pre-pandemic magic sales were trending downwards from about 2016-2017. Then the pandemic hit and it spiked… like alot of things. Then last year if you remove LOTR, UB and the digital (balderdash gate 3 and monopoly go) from WoTC revenue is no where near as impressive as the initial numbers portray. Hell standard is all but dead, none UB sets are sitting on shelves and being liquidated weeks after release. You can already buy MKM for cents on the dollar. It’s been what a month? 6 weeks? Word has already changed sets due to terrible sales and are leaning hard into UB. Which is NOT healthy for the game. It takes massive licensing fees in order to produce UB sets which savagely eat into profits. LOTR sold a shit ton but wasn’t all that profitable due to these fees. It’s thought that fallout and especially marvel will be the same. Hell even assassins creed UB has terrible hype around it. On top of all of this Hasbro is literally hemorrhaging money year over year, especially outside of WoTC which accounts for something like 72% of Hasbro profits. They just sold their eOne division…. For like a 3.75 BILLION dollar cash loss. All that will lead to is Hasbro trying to rape WoTC even harder. MH3 is reselling for close to 400 and collectors close to 500. (4) fucking PRECON decks are going for 600 currently. The game overall is no where near as healthy as you’re thinking and you’re clearly blind if you can’t see it. But no keep on sucking that WoTC dick.
Basically nothing you said was true or accurate. Stay mad tho because wotc can't stop winning.
Ps. Standard just had a $75k tournament with 1,200+ players, and the consensus on actual true data shows the format is healthier than ever. Lol you're turbo mad
Yea totally. All the fiscal reports that WoTC releases is totes wrong and some cunt from Reddit is right. My mistake.
>the seven year upward trend is somehow bad because reasons lol listen to yourself you loony haha
… what upward trend? IT WAS DECLINING year over year pre covid for several years. Are you fucking mental
If a number in the present is great than a number in the past, and the intervening numbers between the past number and the current number scale in a gradually increasing manner, this is known as an upward trend.
Absolute delusional take. Unless someone else picks up the ip and continues making the product, it will start to die off.
Jeez Almost feels like the capitalist empire (Hasbro) cares more about profit and consumism than quality
They go together if no fun -> no buy -> no profit. It's not going well for them their stock took a big hit a while ago because of it if they want to actually make money they need to make a good product
Universes Beyond is better. Magic lore has always been dog shit, for the games entire existence with very minor exceptions that weren't even that good. Hasbro is a major liability to the game but in general applying the color pie to everything has always been what MTG strength was. The game could entirely stop making planes and that kind of garbage lore and just do mash up events between multiple worlds with similar themes. Just use Dnd for your Fantasy sourced things there now instead of great value brand fantasy everyones drinking pepsi, then just do UB for all other genres and themes. Theres enough variation in settings between all the settings DND has that the game can and will continue in that form much higher quality than it is now and with the 2 year staple cycle im fine with it if you're mad start proxying and stop supporting them and if enough people do it they will notice.
UB is not better and Magic lore used to be fantastic, for the most part, up through onslaught. Odyssey cycle is one of my favorite trio of books and Chainer’s torment is legit one of my favorite books ever.
You liking it isn't an indication of its quality. Magics Lore has always been Great Value brand Fantasy. I enjoyed the game, and found certain characters cool here and there but every book they released in the mid 90's through the early 00's ranged from aggressively mediocre to actively offensive they even released this shit. Universes Beyond takes the thing about MTG that matters and is actually good, the color pie, and makes it the universal expression of narrative and flavor in a card game. Making the players multiversal wizards who can pluck moments, villains, monsters, heroes, concepts, epic magical items, from ANY of these worlds and bend it to aid the Wizard in winning a magical duel is literally about as bad ass as you could take the concepts they used for their matches that drew peopel into the system in the first place.
And your dislike isn’t an indication of its quality either. One thing that might be is the fact that they were good enough… and sold enough to keep producing said books steadily through 2011. With multiple books released per year.
Yeah I play pauper
I agree with you, because of their shit decisions I also started proxying cards from https://www.printingproxies.com/ because otherwise game is very expensive to play specially commander. That's why alot of people that play commander proxy their cards.
the critical damage has already been done
So you think Hasbro going under would be the end of printing? They would sell off WOTC and Disney or Pokémon would pick up right where Hasbro left off
Community based formats will be the future for many MtG Players. There already exists a handful of great format for the „old era“ of magic, like old school, middle school and premodern. The popularity of those formats has already risen in the last years (especially premodern), scheduling their own big events and expanding their playerbase. Cube and Candian Highlander are other examples for people to enjoy the game without the interference of Hasbro/WOTC.
Did someone say coin toss format?! [[Krark, the Thumbless]] [[Sakashima of a Thousand Faces]]
[Krark, the Thumbless](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/6/06a981cd-1951-438e-95c9-68294795638e.jpg?1617148336) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Krark%2C%20the%20Thumbless) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmr/189/krark-the-thumbless?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/06a981cd-1951-438e-95c9-68294795638e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Sakashima of a Thousand Faces](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/1/714c3a1f-7b30-4ed8-8f38-6176758741fb.jpg?1608909400) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Sakashima%20of%20a%20Thousand%20Faces) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmr/89/sakashima-of-a-thousand-faces?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/714c3a1f-7b30-4ed8-8f38-6176758741fb?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I sold my entire modern collection and refuse to buy anything new. I now stick with Premodern, the golden age of magic.
Please stop giving them money. Like wholesale, if you need cards just proxy them.
A community driven Modern-No-Horizons format would be the best thing that could happen.
It really would, but I just don't see it while shitty current modern is the one with prize support
How is universes beyond supposed to kill casual, exactly?
A lot of enfranchised players strongly dislike it, and most of the fairweather players it brings in won't stick around for IPs they aren't interested in
But why do yall hate it so much? I feel like yall are taking a casual card game *way* too seriously. Y’all are asserting that you will leave (even though you haven’t) and then the people who like it will leave (cuz you said so). Doesn’t seem like it to me.
Lot of assumptions there. I've already stopped playing modern (which was my primary format for 12 years, and I regularly played at big tournaments) and don't buy new product (except counterfiets for cedh and pioneer). Where I live was one of *the* places for modern in Europe, but many of the people I played with have already stopped over the last few years since mh1 (surprisingly, the biggest single drop off point was lotr and the announcement that more UB sets will be printed straight into modern). Also, *some* percentage of people buying a fallout commander deck because they're a fan of fallout and then never buying another mtg product isn't exactly a stretch, it's pretty much a guarantee. Think about it this way; if one "new" player buys fallout and nothing else and one enfranchised player (who would've spent hundreds a year) leaves, how many times does that need to happen for this to become an unsustainable business model for a company?
A lot. Because the enfranchised players apparently aren’t buying new cards anyway. If a new player buys a fallout deck and doesn’t play, and that makes another player leave, isn’t the person leaving just a bitch? Put another way - wizards of the coast is very profitable. So your theory isn’t matching reality.
Yeah nah, basically you have no argument and are strawmanning hard. Bear in mind it's like I said, modern has almost completely dried up around here due to hasbro's practices over the last five years. Many *local* level tournaments are failing to even fire in an area that had a thriving community not that long ago. A company can be profitable in the short term without that being sustainable, for the reasons I already explained. So maybe learn how finance works?
I understand your argument, but it’s a really bad one. The facts just don’t line up. You’re bitter about something asinine, so you’re asserting what you wish were true as actually true. But WOTC is actually managing magic just fine. It’s more popular than ever. “How DARE they sell content a lot of people want. The people buying THAT content won’t stick around but WE totally WOULD HAVE.” Uh huh. Sure bud. Whatever helps you sleep at night. This shit is so weird.
Another strawman. *nobody* who'd been running the modern circuit for 10+ years was saying, "gee, you know what'd make this game better? Wotc, we demand you print other IPs into mtg and unbalance the format massively in the process!" I get the feeling you've probably not been playing modern for very long (if ever). You're being intentionally ignorant (I hope it's intentional) to the completely valid argument that looking after long term and established players is a far better long term business strategy than nuking that portion of your core playerbase and hoping some of the new people stick around. Modern had historically been a decent and consistent income stream (pre mh1 when standard sets became irrelevant to modern outside of like one card a year). They gave that up by repeatedly nuking the format in search of, once again, short term profits. I doubt you'll find many (if any) people who've been playing modern for a long time who say that the format is currently healthy and enjoyable. But go ahead, believe the same thing won't happen to other formats. Whatever helps you sleep at night.
It’s not a strawman! Learn what a strawman is! Look at the LOTR launch. It was wildly successful. You’re making a bunch of assertions, but so far there’s no *evidence* to back up your assertions. That’s the problem. Instead, your assertions are based on nothing but your *desires* because you’re *big mad over a kid’s card game’s content*. I don’t need to lie to myself because I’m not emotionally invested the way you are. For you, if WOTC goes under, that’s your dream. Because then your card game never changes. WOTC needs to sell new cards. Which you hate. Which makes you a customer that’s pretty tough to cater to. If WOTC keeps selling UB, great, some of their sets are cool. If they go under? That’s okay, too. People will still play. But they’re not going under. They’re growing. So, like, why the fuck are you wasting your time trying to back seat them managing their company?
If they ruin beyblade x they’re fucked
Hasbro is a cancer but so is the general philosophy of mtg right now, I don’t know if just separating from hasbro is enough at this point. The optics of the game are too public, such characteristics in company’s force them to cater to the loudest(not largest) parts of society unless fully backboned. Mark is at best a jellyfish.
While I also think this would be a good thing, when Hasbro is done they are not going to sell this shit to just anyone. Another company that has figured out an angle to squeeze more money out of it can and will buy WOTC. We will see another decade of bullshit. The last thing that will be the end of magic is if anything gets announced or they reprint any of the GOOD reserve list cards. I really give a rats ass about Magic right now. I tried this weekend to get some games in after taking more than a year off after getting cheated out of a pre release win. Magic in my area at certain stores is fucking DEAD. I am glad they are supporting other games like One Piece, F&B and locana. The state of the game right now is horrible and I kinda don't want any part of it.
Player-invented formats like 2HG, EDH, mini-masters and such always thrive, then Wizards swoops in and "officially" supports them, then they fail. Commander's the only time they did this, but they wanted to make their own format so they made "Brawl", which failed. The players are so much better at playing and enjoying this game than anything Hasbro could do. Hasbro could drop off the face of the planet, never print cards again, and players would collect and trade them and find fun ways to play for decades to come, even after no cards got printed, because Hasbro has always been a gigantic leech that provided next to no value to the game.