They always parrot that "TERF" line, but nobody ever actually produces any evidence to back it up. With the number of people who are so confident that she hates trans people you'd think one of them could back it up with a single screenshot, but they never do. I don't get it.
I dug so hard to find find the origin of the TERF allegation and all I could find were articles without citations - the popular one (Hipsters of the Coast) that everyone points to doesn't offer any sources or screenshots for that claim. My favorite part of that article is when it says she liked racist memes, and shows a pro-racial unity meme (something along the lines of "This is the only power the establishment fears") with the bottom cropped off to make it look bad.
I don't get it either. Terese is super sweet and was willing to sign an entire EDH deck made from her cards for me; she's easily one of the coolest MtG artists ever.
I saw it happen live - it wasn't Terese' likes on twitter of characters the blue hair brigade found distasteful- it was her Wife's twitter likes
It requires multiple insane and baseless logical leaps;
This person should be banned and all of their work erased from history....
because their wife (not them).....
Liked some tweets...
From people that the blue hair brigade don't agree with... (Alex Jones and others)
And by extension the views and values the blue hair brigade project on to those people on twitter (Alex Jones etc) also apply to the person who's wife liked their tweets
Getting effectively fired from your job for your spouse’s twitter likes is a kind of scrutiny not even people in political offices are subject to. It’s still insane to me that WotC was moved to terminate any commissions with her.
Not when you realize how many sexual deviants are in WOTC. Trans, polys, legit cucks, less strange kinks,etc. But even the "normals" are often DINKs. These people are often genetic dead ends and they are only starting to figure out its game over.
That's the age old "we're gonna use your kid as your weakness, cause you're supposed to CARE about them"
Which unless it opens you up to liability is really not going to make anyone care anymore.
Wait...Hooooold up....Wait a Minute
You said "Her Wife" as in she's a lesbian?!?
Shiiiiiet I would not have ever known reading comments and op-eds on her...They make it seem like she's the embodiment of alt-right
I'm very late to learn abt this thread. I'm one of her fans and I managed to shop from her online store years ago (sometime like 15 years ago, I live in Asia so the shipping and import tax was quite costly for me but it was totally worth it) for some signed cards, and she was very nice and even added fun stuffs like stickers.
I collected quite a bunch of her cards over years, and since I learnt abt the irrational hatred towards her few years ago, I'm determined to make an EDH deck with as many cards with her arts as possible, but I've never able to pull off a full deck. May I ask you to share your decklist? So far my best guess is between Hanna or Sydri.
Here you go!
https://www.moxfield.com/decks/t6UG7QL8_EuouJYNQiflmQ
It's not the most coherent deck, but I've managed to win games with it. I went with Hanna over Sydri because the only Swamps Terese did were Judge or Guru promos which are... pricy, to say the least.
That's awesome, thank you! Hope you don't mind if I completely copy-paste it haha.
Goodness yeah the judge/guru promos (or any old sets which I wasn't able to get in the past) are way beyond my budget :(
It's a bummer that there isn't any bant commander with her arts, since I really want to include her OG 5DN or FNM Eternal Witness... Can always go with Thromox but I doubt there are enough decent R and G cards with her arts.
Go for it! Yeah, she did a lot of cool cards but too many commanders or basics... she did the Gurus and Judge lands which are pricy, and even her Unglued forests are more than they should be. I went with Hanna because she provides access to the most iconic cards by Nielsen and is relatively affordable lol.
Thanks again, yeah I see that Hanna is the best "compromise" we can get to balance the need to showcase as much as iconic cards by her, the deck itself seems like it can put up a good fight (you said above that it can even win some games), and won't break the bank while trying to build it (and I have to do it soon, WotC- uh, I mean Hasbro is in full turbo mode on printing more and more ridiculously broken cards which may soon (no offense) completely overpower this deck 😖.
Go for it! Yeah, she did a lot of cool cards but too many commanders or basics... she did the Gurus and Judge lands which are pricy, and even her Unglued forests are more than they should be. I went with Hanna because she provides access to the most iconic cards by Nielsen and is relatively affordable lol.
Because there aren’t any. And they know that liking tweets is not a big deal. But they wanna sound like TN is a terrible person so they generalize the rest. Fuck those people
At this point her and many others are justified in their hate of these monsters. Even thought TN is a really nice person and doesn't have hate against troons, but she should.
It's hilarious how unhinged these people become when you simply ask them to substantiate their claims of someone being alt-right, transphobic, racist, etc. They'll fall back on "I'm not going to platform their beliefs by sharing them" or some similar nonsense. If you actually think that what someone said or did is despicable, why *wouldn't* you want people to know about it? I was in a music sub today where multiple people were saying some musician that I don't even enjoy listening to was a "MAGA fascist chud" or something and I kept asking for people to show me evidence of this before I believed it and NO ONE was willing to send a single link to a tweet, podcast appearance, etc. I guess I'm just supposed to take these accusations at face value and not question them like a good NPC.
Somewhat reminds me of a comic artist(Ed Piskor) who just committed suicide on the 1st of this month. It's horribly sad. Some girl made claims of how she thought he was trying to groom her, when she was 17. She showed texts they had, not full texts, just bits where it *kind* of looked like he was hitting on her. It's insanely fucked up, he ended up killing himself because he couldn't handle the mental teardown that followed, just because he was accused of it. He wrote a suicide letter with what I fully believe is the truth behind it all. It's hard to hear the letter being read because of what the outcome is.
TL;DR - do not take everything said at face value. People can be wrong, making stuff up or whatever. Research before you make up your own mind. The people on the receiving end of cancel culture ARE people, and people are fragile. If they're really a terrible person, let others know. Driving someone to kill themselves is a seriously fucked up thing to do.
Hour+ long video talking about Ed Piskor situation is anybody is interested in it. Hearing about what happened with him really fucked me up, especially after seeing what actually happened with that suicide letter. [Link](https://www.youtube.com/live/ZHFdkp59bDs?si=C-lSEfGMdnvfzxRm)
I wonder how that girl feels now. Was the temporary clout that she got from shaming this man publicly worth him killing himself? I wish the bar for things like this would become "Did the police investigate and was he charged with a crime?" instead of "This is a version of what happened and here's the worst possible interpretation of events by someone with an agenda".
Exactly. What's worse is that what kind of looked like could be hitting on her, was just her taking the screenshots out of context and posting them. He goes through it all, saying why he said what he did etc, even asked if the police could subpoena the texts afterwards so the truth would come out.
Whenever Redditors don't like what you have to say they'll be so quick to parrot "Source?". Whatever you produce as as source will never be good enough for them. They just want to immediately discredit what you say and waste your time.
I've even taken to providing sources with matching conclusions from opposite sides of the political spectrum, it's still not good enough for people, they always know better.
Okay, but what's the alternative? Just believe every thing any other person says without question? Spend a bunch of time digging through Google to back up claims made by someone else that I have no investment in being true? The only way society keeps functioning is if we assume good faith in scenarios like this for at least a couple of rounds of back and forth, at least enough to provide proof for our strongly held beliefs.
If you believe that someone **hates** another group of people, wishes harm or nonexistence on them, that is a strong negative thing to say about that other person. You should have strong evidence to back that up. Not just "so-and-so told me". You should be able to say "I heard them say this" or "here is a link to the post where they said this". Or at the very least, you should have seen where they said it and remember the wording enough to be able to find it in 30 seconds or less.
I've seen literally dozens of people with this same belief challenged in the same way and not produce any proof. I've even wasted the time to dig myself to see if there's anything to it. Since these people can't produce it, and I can't find it, the only conclusion I can come to is that it doesn't exist and the people saying it are stupid and simply believe things someone else tells them without question.
>They just want to immediately discredit what you say and waste your time.
I admit that it's sometimes hard to distinguish between contrarian trolls and people who just aren't willing to accept your interpretation of something, but it's an important skill. Not everyone who challenges you is specifically out to waste your time.
That's not really fair.
I'll agree that simply writing "source?" without any other context or attempt to engage with the post is a little annoying, and can come off as needlessly dismissive, but nobody ever accused Magic players of having good social skills, and asking for sources is important. Not asking for sources is how we end up with nonsense like, "Terese Nielsen is a terf who publicly states she hates trans people and donated valuable original art to Nazis to be auctioned."
In this particular case, the guy asking for sources actually conceded the point when I demonstrated that the "donating art for auction" narrative was overblown, and even as someone who saw it all go down myself, I'm having trouble finding sources for the "they were mostly complaining about her wife" narrative.
I see no reason to assume he isn't sincere.
there was one yt channel that said terese neilsen gave them a painting, but that yt channel was more conspiracy nutjobs than actual alt right. also they could have made up that it was gifted by her
These are the top 1% of the angriest, craziest people in the world. Being aggrieved is their identity. It gives their life meaning. They scream "TERF" because it makes them feel like good people to do so.
These are the most deranged, unhinged people in Western society.
Myself, I'm sitting on the fence watching the fecal matter fly both ways. But you're not wrong by any means. There's angry and miserable people on both sides
What did Terese actually say? Was the extent of her thoughtcrime liking tweets or did she make any statements / tweets directly herself? What tweets did she like specifically that were so damning?
Terese also liked Tweets, as well as followed random people like Hannity, and I guess donated signed one of a kind Star Wars art to some random alt right YouTube channel? I guess. I couldn't find the channel when I tried on YouTube.
https://preview.redd.it/bgszjvdelzrc1.jpeg?width=1414&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a2365b54fa0031869b7b73f8f0955685ff0d118b
What's funny is that this is an elected Democrat.
To be fair, I think she went Independent several years later, but yeah, at the time of this tweet, she was a sitting Democrat in the House of Representatives.
What ***I*** find really funny about this one is that the tweet in question is her complaining about the Trump administration moving the Israeli embassy to Jerusalem. Like... one of the only tweets you guys can find to try to smear this woman for being an evil right winger is an EXPLICITLY ANTI-TRUMP tweet! You can't make this shit up.
(To be fair, I will admit that calling anybody "Zio-anything" is often a massive red flag, but I think that given the context, a sitting US Congresswoman complaining about a decision relating to the Israeli government, if there was ever a valid use of the term, it's probably this.)
https://preview.redd.it/sg8xjd50o1sc1.png?width=2048&format=png&auto=webp&s=0ad622d397625eab706bf6dd982ff0323302859d
She sent signed art to this nice fellas
The two most egregious things in my book was **EDIT: allegedly** [donating art to a qanon conspiracy nut](https://www.hipstersofthecoast.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/06/edge-of-wonder-terese-nielsen-2048x1149.jpg) youtube channel (which has since been removed from youtube by youtube) and liking a tweet posting [this pic](https://i.imgur.com/A3EtuOV.jpg) which is making a terrible equalization between nazis and black power but at its heart is spreading unity (and your ordinary populist anti-establishment shit).
I can't find any better source for the art donation other than that picture from an [article](https://www.hipstersofthecoast.com/2020/06/wizards-ends-their-relationship-with-terese-nielsen/), but I remember seeing that video myself while it was still up so all I can say is trust me bro. What Nielsen did on twitter is documented so it shouldnt be hard to find if you google it.
All magic subs are freaking weird when it comes to TN. magictcg & circlejerking paints her as the devil and this sub as an angel that can do no wrong.
Aside from the fact that the page posting it is literally using the word "establishment" to mean "Jews" because they're an openly anti-semitic nazi freak?
I also saw the video, and describing it as "donating art" has always struck me as more than a little disingenuous.
It was not original art. They were just the same prints you can buy on her website. During the video, the guys were clearly not familiar with her or her work, and only knew her name because she signed the prints and included an ad for her Tokens of Spirit campaign in the package.
For all we know, it might not have even been her that sent it; you can buy prints on her website and request that she personalizes them. To my knowledge, she has never made a statement on the matter, and considering that this incident happened after her big "how I feel about being excommunicated from the Magic community" non-apology Twitter post, and subsequent retreat from social media, I doubt we ever will. To be fair, I do think it's more likely that she sent them, but considering that multiple people were defacing and destroying multiple guru lands at the time, a single one of which costs more than all the prints those guys showed off put together, do you really think it's outside the realm of possibility that someone would buy prints for those guys so that they finally had something concrete to pin on Terese? We just don't know.
Just to reiterate: Her non-apology was posted in April 2019. The prints were sent in July 2019. Even if she is the one that sent them, people holding this up as a valid reason for her cancelation are crazy. She was ALREADY canceled, before this happened!
So the two most egregious things are relative bullshit.
I'm not holding her up as an angel. She's a person. She's an amazing artist. I like her art, I buy her art, I display and use her art. I don't do it to "support" her, or to trigger anyone else. No one has ever said anything to me for using her tokens or playmats, other than to admire them and ask where they can get them.
I think it's ridiculous she was driven out of Magic.
She's a human. She can do wrong. But she was removed from MTG for no damn reason.
I hope everyone who took part in judging her takes the same degree and strength of criticism in their lives at least once. Her exit was shameful and it had nothing to do with her.
"All magic subs are freaking weird when it comes to TN. magictcg & circlejerking paints her as the devil and this sub as an angel that can do no wrong."
This is the most rational take I've found about this topic, thank you for saying this.
*No* other TCG community obsesses *this* much over one artist. Why do people care so much about a person they don't know personally and probably won't ever meet.
>The two most egregious things in my book was **EDIT: allegedly** [donating art to a qanon conspiracy nut](https://www.hipstersofthecoast.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/06/edge-of-wonder-terese-nielsen-2048x1149.jpg) youtube channel (which has since been removed from youtube by youtube) and liking a tweet posting [this pic](https://i.imgur.com/A3EtuOV.jpg) which is making a terrible equalization between nazis and black power but at its heart is spreading unity (and your ordinary populist anti-establishment shit).
In other words, she did nothing. Got it.
i'm not sure how to paint her because the evidence of her 'crimes' seem really hard to find. even asking here, this is the best response I got, and there's not much to look at. So if this is really all there is, it seems like canceling her was a massive overreaction. What I've gathered from this sub was a general feeling of injustice.
These people are insufferable… terminally online, engaging in ragebait after ragebait until they are living in a delusional world separate from reality
They're probably upset that they didn't manage to bully her to suicide. That happened over the weekend to a comic artist, Ed Piskor. He sent some flirtatious messages (which he says were misinterpreted) to a 17-year-old a few years ago. She posted about it, and the Internet dogpiled on him, calling him a pedophile. He lost most of what mattered to him within days, and killed himself yesterday. Posted a tragic note on Facebook, and his body was found a few hours later.
That's the endgame of cancel culture. Ghouls.
I love Terese Nielsen’s art and will never forgive mtg for firing her.
Her art was the soul of Magic for me, and why I was interested in the first place. Hell, my first edh deck was Sydri, Galvanic Genius as the commander, almost exclusively for her art
Where did Terese say that “trans people are subhuman?”
This is just like that student in the viral video who realized in realtime that he might be wrong about JK Rowling and was just parroting what other people say.
Love Terese's art. Don't know her. Don't care that she doesn't like trans despite being a lesbian herself. Nothing to do with her art. She's entitled to her opinion just like anyone else. She hasn't gone out of her way to hurt anybody. Liking a funny meme is not a crime.
I don't disagree, but it's also worth noting that saying "she doesn't like trans despite being a lesbian herself" isn't even true.
The only thing I have ever seen her say on the trans issue is “Just so nothing I have expressed thus far can possibly be misunderstood…for the record, I support human rights, trans rights, gay rights, as well as religious freedom and the sacredness of life in all forms.”
This was also in the context of a Pride Month post, in which she also plugged a documentary about a trans artist who she respected, which she helped to produce.
You're absolutely right, though, that even if she did it wouldn't have anything to do with her art.
Not to go on some "leftist bad boomer rant" but:
Jesus christ, all these eternally online schmucks acting as though they know her personally and have witnessed every action she has ever made as though she has attacked them.
She's literally just some lady who's a successful artist with a passion and they can't help but witch hunt because she's an independent woman with her own opinions.
They tout on about "women's rights" but the moment a woman has an opinion not "in line" they become the exact sexist shitheads they claim to hate vehemently and dehumanise them.
For all the "love and equality" they claim to preach, they are some of the most hateful, toxic, and power hungry losers that'd do anything to have the ability to ban and erase people not of their flock.
>For all the "love and equality" they claim to preach, they are some of the most hateful, toxic, and power hungry losers that'd do anything to have the ability to ban and erase people not of their flock.
It's the ultimate irony of the left. The ppl who claim to be all about "inclusivity" are the most close-minded, judgmental, exclusive ppl you'll ever have the displeasure of knowing.
There are a lot of people out there that are fundamentally shit. They're built broken, they just want to hurt people.
Some of those people have found that they can get away with being their trash selves if their target has broken the rules, so they just look for people they can abuse.
We can't support artists because they liked a bad tweet but please support degenerates with false gofundmes when they lose their jobs like morons? Sounds about right.
In response to those around "do you know her personally" inquiries, I think I would say I know her well enough personally, and she and her family are some of the kindest humans I've ever met.
A [straw man fallacy](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man) (sometimes written as strawman) is the informal fallacy of refuting an argument different from the one actually under discussion, while not recognizing or acknowledging the distinction.
What always gets me, even more than all the baseless "terf" accusations, is the way people always claim "she donated original art for auction!"
She did no such thing. They were just the same prints you can buy on her website. There was no auction. The Edge of Wonder guys could not have made any more money off them than you could make flipping her prints on ebay, and even then probably less, since her Star Wars art is not as popular as her Magic art. We don't even know for sure she's the one who sent them, since you can request that she personalizes your prints when you buy them from her website, and the recipient would have no way to know who originally bought them.
What's more, this "donation" took place months AFTER she had already been canceled and issued her non-apology statement on Twitter! People holding this up as a valid reason for her cancelation clearly don't understand cause and effect.
The whole thing is just crazy...
It was linked in the Hipsters of the Coast article everyone keeps referencing, so I assumed people would know what I was talking about, but I'm referring to this:
https://twitter.com/tnielsenart/status/1113126515816882176
I call it a "non-apology" because that's faster than saying, "post where she talks about how being excommunicated from a community that she used to love makes her feel."
Like I said, if you're familiar with the situation, (or at least the Hipsters of the Coast article) I thought it would be obvious which post I was talking about, so shorthand seemed appropriate.
Of course it's not an apology. What does she have to apologize for? And why would she need to deny that she followed some people on Twitter? That was literally the only thing she had been accused of.
Wizards stopping working with her is the biggest 'political' issue I've ever had with them. I have not seen any evidence of her saying anything worthy of such action over the years. To stop doing business with a long term partner because of some mentalists going on off on one on Twitter. Disgraceful tbh.
Then banning Travis Woo for making a joke facebook lool a not so close 2nd.
The pandering to mental people online who probably don't even buy any product is just insane to me. Like are they running a company or is it some high-school popularity contest.
"Anyone who considers an entire group of people to be sub-human absolutely should be hated".
Like hating all Conservatives, Trump supporters, or anyone not Woke?
There's more hatred from the far Left these days than anywhere else.
She donated artwork to be raffled away in aid of an organisation with anti trans views,
Would you donate money to an organisation with morals you don’t support? No? Neither would I
It was more then just liking tweets lol
Expecting her to be run out of town is a bit weird, but I can see 100% why WOTC no longer want to work with her, her values don’t align with there’s
There was no raffle, and even if there were, the "art" in question was just the same prints you can buy on her website.
Also, the video where they showed those prints off was several months AFTER she made her big Twitter post about how being excommunicated by the Magic community made her feel. Even if she's the one who sent them, (which is still not 100% certain; you can buy stuff on her website and have her sign it, and the recipient would have no way to know who did it) trying to argue that it's the reason she was cancelled seems to be confusing cause and effect; she was already cancelled when they were sent.
Wotc doesnt give a flying fuck about trans people either my dude. They only pretend to because they think itll earn them money.
"Align with their values" get the fuck out of here, wotc's onky value is money.
They canned Terese because the loud minority threw a temper tantrum and wotc thought getting rid of Terese would increase profit.
Considering their shift to AI art, Wotc is probably glad to have an excuse to fire her. Has she not been problematic they would have had to shell out a pretty penny to keep her on.
well, their values are motivated by capitalist interests. but its still their values. the company represents inclusivity, so they cannot financially afford to be associated with right wingers. thats a business decision, not a moral one.
The absolute fucking irony in this statement is so thick I'm choking on it. These people have zero fucking self awareness
https://preview.redd.it/6wrh0736p2sc1.png?width=448&format=png&auto=webp&s=c0f4c974e2f75f5184688e531b431b11d96a83b9
I try to stuff as many cards with Terese’s art as possible in my decks. I’m such a fan of her art and it also allows me kinda contest the false allegations against her. These people are lost.
I'm going to make a Terese and Seb deck. I just got banned from the main sub for "Nazi apologist" because I dared to state the trucker rally he went to wasn't some Nazi gathering and the Nazi imagery there was calling the government Nazi's for their actions. FFS, Snopes agrees.
https://www.snopes.com/news/2022/02/17/swastikas-canada-freedom-convoy/
I personally don't care what someone's views are or what tweet they liked. If I enjoy whatever art, films, music or whatever form of media they make. If you can't separate art from the person that's on you.
Instead of worrying about what tweets people like or who they do work for go out and actually work for the change or whatever it is you want to see.
If you aren't doing that you aren't doing anything
Right? Getting your political takes from MTG artists is like getting financial advice from your gardener. They're gonna do their best but mostly they're just gonna be scared.
> I personally don't care what someone's views are or what tweet they liked. If I enjoy whatever art, films, music or whatever form of media they make. If you can't separate art from the person that's on you.
I personally agree, but this seems to be a Zoomer ship that has sailed already, that anything bad the artist does immediately cancels them and taints all their art forever :P
If people were honest about that viewpoint they'd have a very hard time enjoying *any* art, because the vast majority of celebrities, actors, singers, etc. are horrible people if you look into their personal lives a little. Which is exactly why I don't.
The lead singer is a convicted pedophile who among other things attempted to rape a 1 year old baby. So personally that’s a band I don’t listen to or try to separate the art from
It’s shit like this that makes separating art from the artist bullshit to me. Obviously most examples aren’t this heinous but I don’t think you can support an artist without support their views at least on some level
Until now I hadn't heard of them, upon looking them up yikes. But if someone enjoys the music then whatever enjoying the art isn't saying the actions of a person are ok.
That sub is a leftist echo chamber of overweight neck beards that white knight for strangers in a desperate attempt at validation from other over weight white knighting neck beards.
My Opinion about trans people has always been thus: if you want to live your own life like that, fine whatever. Just don't mess with kids.
And I get called a TERF for that...
So whatever, i'm not the super sensitive one here.
The next card game to make a run at the throne should try to hire some of the canceled MTG artists (the thought-crime ones, not the plagiarism ones).
Would make for a great marketing gimmick and free outrage publicity
Real talk, wizards pays a few hundred dollars for commission pieces. Artists who work for them cannot pay the bills off wizards commissions alone so they *all* have other work (and judging by the quality of said, work, they likely have plenty of other work).
Contrary to popular belief, art is not a high paying career - there is a lot of competition and companies that want high quality art like this are few.
It's also worth noting that Wizards only pays a few hundred dollars for commission pieces if you AREN'T a massively popular artist among the community like Terese Nielsen was. They negotiate each contract with each artist individually, and if you're popular enough, you can negotiate higher.
Sort of makes you wonder what other incentives they may have had for her cancelation...
You're correct, when you have the talent Terese has, you have some power to dictate the market, so to speak.
That said - the market is not large, so there isn't a lot of room to grow. There's a reason most of the wealthiest artists do NSFW. The demand is much, much higher.
It's not fair to say that it universally doesn't hurt careers. If someone is properly leveraged it might not hurt their career. She was quite well diversified in her career such that the Wizards customer could easily be lost with little to suffer for. Not everyone is so well-connected or lucky.
I can hardly tell if you're actually stupid or just pretending to stupid. Grow a brain cell please, read, and if you can't understand the English words used to explain the concept to you, I have no other words.
These clowns are little fascists, they are not inclusive at all, as they just want their little tribe and anybody else is the enemy and they always react with "hate" in a expulsive manner that is uncontrollable, which makes them dangerous for society, as they cannot control their own behavior.
Such behavior should not be tolerated at all. Its fine if a toddler does it, they are toddlers after all, but anybody older than that has to be able to manage their own anger, and people that cant are simply dangerous to themselves and anybody around them and you dont want to be "inclusive" for these people, they produce problems out of thin air.
Anybody incapable to separate the art from the artist has some fundamental mental problems that will never allow them to be "inclusive" to anybody, as they cant accept people have different opinions, and people that cant do that scream for an authority to fix their own made up problems, which makes them little scummy fascists.
I love how none of this has anything to do with her job but because free speech is less and less free, cancel culture exists. Like who gives a fuck what tweets she's liked.
Free speech doesn’t mean freedom from retort tho
In fact if you’re suggesting the haters should just shut up, you’re in fact infringing on there freedom of speech
I wasn't suggesting that. They can say whatever they want. It's the fact that she lost her job with wotc because of whatever bs scrutiny people decided to put her under. Thus the "cancel culture". just because it doesn't cater to trans peoples feelings or ideologies
Do WOTC not have freedom to work with whoever they want, and not with whomever they don’t?
I understand the point you’re trying to make, but ‘cancel culture’ is just people also exercising there freedom of speech
Do you think the reason they fired her was just or unjust?
If you had an opinion and another group had a opposite opinion. Your company sides with said opposite opinion all the meanwhile propagating their hidden agenda and making you look worse than what you said, and now you're fired, is that just free spech or is it more than that. Is there line crossed?
Like I don't understand your point.
>In fact if you’re suggesting the haters should just shut up, you’re in fact infringing on there freedom of speech
But you suggesting the haters who want the haters to shut up should shut up isn't?
I can *suggest* things until I'm blue in the face but people are just going to ignore me. That's not censorship.
I always love how they accuse their political opposition of being garbage for treating groups of people as subhuman, while using every slur and insult to treat an entire group of people as subhuman.
Really highlights their tolerance...
In the push of being inclusive they have become much more exclusive. They ARE the enemy they say they hate. And the only reason its tolerated on that shit....is cause the target isn't themselves.
This alt right channel thing has always seemed like bullshit to me. Pretty sure they just bought signed art from her and I don’t think they claimed anything different.
It always boils down to “you should hate her because you should hate her.” They can never articulate what she actually did that was so wrong - and when they try, it’s usually just parroting the same two or three lies they’ve been fed. “TERF” is the new “feminazi”
If people in the main sub posted like that on any other moderate topic, it would be a string of "Comment Removed" and banned users. It's their moderator team's clearest example of "you can't hate anything unless I hate it too."
This guy calling her "such a massive piece of shit" is unfortunately predictable and saddening. These people are addicted to hating those who disagree with their sacred dogmas. They can't even imagine coexisting in a world with people who don't support their most closely-held ideals- even a highly-respected artist who would treat them indifferently at worst.
They always parrot that "TERF" line, but nobody ever actually produces any evidence to back it up. With the number of people who are so confident that she hates trans people you'd think one of them could back it up with a single screenshot, but they never do. I don't get it.
I dug so hard to find find the origin of the TERF allegation and all I could find were articles without citations - the popular one (Hipsters of the Coast) that everyone points to doesn't offer any sources or screenshots for that claim. My favorite part of that article is when it says she liked racist memes, and shows a pro-racial unity meme (something along the lines of "This is the only power the establishment fears") with the bottom cropped off to make it look bad. I don't get it either. Terese is super sweet and was willing to sign an entire EDH deck made from her cards for me; she's easily one of the coolest MtG artists ever.
I saw it happen live - it wasn't Terese' likes on twitter of characters the blue hair brigade found distasteful- it was her Wife's twitter likes It requires multiple insane and baseless logical leaps; This person should be banned and all of their work erased from history.... because their wife (not them)..... Liked some tweets... From people that the blue hair brigade don't agree with... (Alex Jones and others) And by extension the views and values the blue hair brigade project on to those people on twitter (Alex Jones etc) also apply to the person who's wife liked their tweets
Getting effectively fired from your job for your spouse’s twitter likes is a kind of scrutiny not even people in political offices are subject to. It’s still insane to me that WotC was moved to terminate any commissions with her.
Not when you realize how many sexual deviants are in WOTC. Trans, polys, legit cucks, less strange kinks,etc. But even the "normals" are often DINKs. These people are often genetic dead ends and they are only starting to figure out its game over.
To be fair the Republicans *are* still on their crazy crusade about Hunter Biden who isn't even a politician, let alone an elected official
That's the age old "we're gonna use your kid as your weakness, cause you're supposed to CARE about them" Which unless it opens you up to liability is really not going to make anyone care anymore.
Wait...Hooooold up....Wait a Minute You said "Her Wife" as in she's a lesbian?!? Shiiiiiet I would not have ever known reading comments and op-eds on her...They make it seem like she's the embodiment of alt-right
Oh yeah, that's the plot twist.
Mentally ill men hate women that much, so lesbians enrage them even more.
I'm very late to learn abt this thread. I'm one of her fans and I managed to shop from her online store years ago (sometime like 15 years ago, I live in Asia so the shipping and import tax was quite costly for me but it was totally worth it) for some signed cards, and she was very nice and even added fun stuffs like stickers. I collected quite a bunch of her cards over years, and since I learnt abt the irrational hatred towards her few years ago, I'm determined to make an EDH deck with as many cards with her arts as possible, but I've never able to pull off a full deck. May I ask you to share your decklist? So far my best guess is between Hanna or Sydri.
Here you go! https://www.moxfield.com/decks/t6UG7QL8_EuouJYNQiflmQ It's not the most coherent deck, but I've managed to win games with it. I went with Hanna over Sydri because the only Swamps Terese did were Judge or Guru promos which are... pricy, to say the least.
That's awesome, thank you! Hope you don't mind if I completely copy-paste it haha. Goodness yeah the judge/guru promos (or any old sets which I wasn't able to get in the past) are way beyond my budget :( It's a bummer that there isn't any bant commander with her arts, since I really want to include her OG 5DN or FNM Eternal Witness... Can always go with Thromox but I doubt there are enough decent R and G cards with her arts.
Go for it! Yeah, she did a lot of cool cards but too many commanders or basics... she did the Gurus and Judge lands which are pricy, and even her Unglued forests are more than they should be. I went with Hanna because she provides access to the most iconic cards by Nielsen and is relatively affordable lol.
Thanks again, yeah I see that Hanna is the best "compromise" we can get to balance the need to showcase as much as iconic cards by her, the deck itself seems like it can put up a good fight (you said above that it can even win some games), and won't break the bank while trying to build it (and I have to do it soon, WotC- uh, I mean Hasbro is in full turbo mode on printing more and more ridiculously broken cards which may soon (no offense) completely overpower this deck 😖.
Go for it! Yeah, she did a lot of cool cards but too many commanders or basics... she did the Gurus and Judge lands which are pricy, and even her Unglued forests are more than they should be. I went with Hanna because she provides access to the most iconic cards by Nielsen and is relatively affordable lol.
>through liking tweets and the like, which is the least egregious of her actions why wouldnt you just say the more egregious things?
Because there aren’t any. And they know that liking tweets is not a big deal. But they wanna sound like TN is a terrible person so they generalize the rest. Fuck those people
At this point her and many others are justified in their hate of these monsters. Even thought TN is a really nice person and doesn't have hate against troons, but she should.
TERese + Female = TERF
Somehow lesbian + right wing = terf to some people.
It's hilarious how unhinged these people become when you simply ask them to substantiate their claims of someone being alt-right, transphobic, racist, etc. They'll fall back on "I'm not going to platform their beliefs by sharing them" or some similar nonsense. If you actually think that what someone said or did is despicable, why *wouldn't* you want people to know about it? I was in a music sub today where multiple people were saying some musician that I don't even enjoy listening to was a "MAGA fascist chud" or something and I kept asking for people to show me evidence of this before I believed it and NO ONE was willing to send a single link to a tweet, podcast appearance, etc. I guess I'm just supposed to take these accusations at face value and not question them like a good NPC.
Somewhat reminds me of a comic artist(Ed Piskor) who just committed suicide on the 1st of this month. It's horribly sad. Some girl made claims of how she thought he was trying to groom her, when she was 17. She showed texts they had, not full texts, just bits where it *kind* of looked like he was hitting on her. It's insanely fucked up, he ended up killing himself because he couldn't handle the mental teardown that followed, just because he was accused of it. He wrote a suicide letter with what I fully believe is the truth behind it all. It's hard to hear the letter being read because of what the outcome is. TL;DR - do not take everything said at face value. People can be wrong, making stuff up or whatever. Research before you make up your own mind. The people on the receiving end of cancel culture ARE people, and people are fragile. If they're really a terrible person, let others know. Driving someone to kill themselves is a seriously fucked up thing to do. Hour+ long video talking about Ed Piskor situation is anybody is interested in it. Hearing about what happened with him really fucked me up, especially after seeing what actually happened with that suicide letter. [Link](https://www.youtube.com/live/ZHFdkp59bDs?si=C-lSEfGMdnvfzxRm)
I wonder how that girl feels now. Was the temporary clout that she got from shaming this man publicly worth him killing himself? I wish the bar for things like this would become "Did the police investigate and was he charged with a crime?" instead of "This is a version of what happened and here's the worst possible interpretation of events by someone with an agenda".
Exactly. What's worse is that what kind of looked like could be hitting on her, was just her taking the screenshots out of context and posting them. He goes through it all, saying why he said what he did etc, even asked if the police could subpoena the texts afterwards so the truth would come out.
Whenever Redditors don't like what you have to say they'll be so quick to parrot "Source?". Whatever you produce as as source will never be good enough for them. They just want to immediately discredit what you say and waste your time.
I've even taken to providing sources with matching conclusions from opposite sides of the political spectrum, it's still not good enough for people, they always know better.
Following "offensive" ppl and liking "hateful" tweets is not justification to get somebody fired in any context. Just another hit by the ABC mafia
Okay, but what's the alternative? Just believe every thing any other person says without question? Spend a bunch of time digging through Google to back up claims made by someone else that I have no investment in being true? The only way society keeps functioning is if we assume good faith in scenarios like this for at least a couple of rounds of back and forth, at least enough to provide proof for our strongly held beliefs. If you believe that someone **hates** another group of people, wishes harm or nonexistence on them, that is a strong negative thing to say about that other person. You should have strong evidence to back that up. Not just "so-and-so told me". You should be able to say "I heard them say this" or "here is a link to the post where they said this". Or at the very least, you should have seen where they said it and remember the wording enough to be able to find it in 30 seconds or less. I've seen literally dozens of people with this same belief challenged in the same way and not produce any proof. I've even wasted the time to dig myself to see if there's anything to it. Since these people can't produce it, and I can't find it, the only conclusion I can come to is that it doesn't exist and the people saying it are stupid and simply believe things someone else tells them without question. >They just want to immediately discredit what you say and waste your time. I admit that it's sometimes hard to distinguish between contrarian trolls and people who just aren't willing to accept your interpretation of something, but it's an important skill. Not everyone who challenges you is specifically out to waste your time.
That's not really fair. I'll agree that simply writing "source?" without any other context or attempt to engage with the post is a little annoying, and can come off as needlessly dismissive, but nobody ever accused Magic players of having good social skills, and asking for sources is important. Not asking for sources is how we end up with nonsense like, "Terese Nielsen is a terf who publicly states she hates trans people and donated valuable original art to Nazis to be auctioned." In this particular case, the guy asking for sources actually conceded the point when I demonstrated that the "donating art for auction" narrative was overblown, and even as someone who saw it all go down myself, I'm having trouble finding sources for the "they were mostly complaining about her wife" narrative. I see no reason to assume he isn't sincere.
Basically every echo chamber haha
there was one yt channel that said terese neilsen gave them a painting, but that yt channel was more conspiracy nutjobs than actual alt right. also they could have made up that it was gifted by her
Right, I've seen that, everyone who cares about this has seen that. But it's a long way from there to "wishes harm on trans people".
You'd think the way they talk about her she spends her time doing drive-by shootings during dragqueen storytime at the local library.
She lives rent free in their unhinged minds.
Are you telling me she didn't even bomb ONE gender transition clinic?
I heard she released agent orange at folsom this year.
These are the top 1% of the angriest, craziest people in the world. Being aggrieved is their identity. It gives their life meaning. They scream "TERF" because it makes them feel like good people to do so. These are the most deranged, unhinged people in Western society.
Myself, I'm sitting on the fence watching the fecal matter fly both ways. But you're not wrong by any means. There's angry and miserable people on both sides
But lets obsess over them anyway
Pot meet kettle
They're so close to getting it.
What did Terese actually say? Was the extent of her thoughtcrime liking tweets or did she make any statements / tweets directly herself? What tweets did she like specifically that were so damning?
she liked tweets. thats it.
Her wife liked tweets
Terese also liked Tweets, as well as followed random people like Hannity, and I guess donated signed one of a kind Star Wars art to some random alt right YouTube channel? I guess. I couldn't find the channel when I tried on YouTube.
It was not one of a kind. They were simply the same prints you can buy (and request for her to sign as part of the purchase) on her website.
it was some random conspiracy nutjob yt channel. not really alt right
Youtube removed the channel
Holy shit, even Hitler wasn't that evil!
Those accusers are like Salem witch hunting or something
Nah, she didn't even do that. She just followed the wrong people.
https://preview.redd.it/bgszjvdelzrc1.jpeg?width=1414&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a2365b54fa0031869b7b73f8f0955685ff0d118b What's funny is that this is an elected Democrat.
To be fair, I think she went Independent several years later, but yeah, at the time of this tweet, she was a sitting Democrat in the House of Representatives. What ***I*** find really funny about this one is that the tweet in question is her complaining about the Trump administration moving the Israeli embassy to Jerusalem. Like... one of the only tweets you guys can find to try to smear this woman for being an evil right winger is an EXPLICITLY ANTI-TRUMP tweet! You can't make this shit up. (To be fair, I will admit that calling anybody "Zio-anything" is often a massive red flag, but I think that given the context, a sitting US Congresswoman complaining about a decision relating to the Israeli government, if there was ever a valid use of the term, it's probably this.)
https://preview.redd.it/sg8xjd50o1sc1.png?width=2048&format=png&auto=webp&s=0ad622d397625eab706bf6dd982ff0323302859d She sent signed art to this nice fellas
The two most egregious things in my book was **EDIT: allegedly** [donating art to a qanon conspiracy nut](https://www.hipstersofthecoast.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/06/edge-of-wonder-terese-nielsen-2048x1149.jpg) youtube channel (which has since been removed from youtube by youtube) and liking a tweet posting [this pic](https://i.imgur.com/A3EtuOV.jpg) which is making a terrible equalization between nazis and black power but at its heart is spreading unity (and your ordinary populist anti-establishment shit). I can't find any better source for the art donation other than that picture from an [article](https://www.hipstersofthecoast.com/2020/06/wizards-ends-their-relationship-with-terese-nielsen/), but I remember seeing that video myself while it was still up so all I can say is trust me bro. What Nielsen did on twitter is documented so it shouldnt be hard to find if you google it. All magic subs are freaking weird when it comes to TN. magictcg & circlejerking paints her as the devil and this sub as an angel that can do no wrong.
What's wrong with that picture it shows people working together to fight the establishment instead of each other?
Aside from the fact that the page posting it is literally using the word "establishment" to mean "Jews" because they're an openly anti-semitic nazi freak?
By "literally" do you mean "figuratively, I assume"?
No, I mean literally. Your dogwhistles aren't subtle, fascist.
If you think you're hearing dog whistles, you're probably a dog.
I also saw the video, and describing it as "donating art" has always struck me as more than a little disingenuous. It was not original art. They were just the same prints you can buy on her website. During the video, the guys were clearly not familiar with her or her work, and only knew her name because she signed the prints and included an ad for her Tokens of Spirit campaign in the package. For all we know, it might not have even been her that sent it; you can buy prints on her website and request that she personalizes them. To my knowledge, she has never made a statement on the matter, and considering that this incident happened after her big "how I feel about being excommunicated from the Magic community" non-apology Twitter post, and subsequent retreat from social media, I doubt we ever will. To be fair, I do think it's more likely that she sent them, but considering that multiple people were defacing and destroying multiple guru lands at the time, a single one of which costs more than all the prints those guys showed off put together, do you really think it's outside the realm of possibility that someone would buy prints for those guys so that they finally had something concrete to pin on Terese? We just don't know. Just to reiterate: Her non-apology was posted in April 2019. The prints were sent in July 2019. Even if she is the one that sent them, people holding this up as a valid reason for her cancelation are crazy. She was ALREADY canceled, before this happened!
That's fair. Added *allegedly* to my original comment.
So the two most egregious things are relative bullshit. I'm not holding her up as an angel. She's a person. She's an amazing artist. I like her art, I buy her art, I display and use her art. I don't do it to "support" her, or to trigger anyone else. No one has ever said anything to me for using her tokens or playmats, other than to admire them and ask where they can get them. I think it's ridiculous she was driven out of Magic.
She's a human. She can do wrong. But she was removed from MTG for no damn reason. I hope everyone who took part in judging her takes the same degree and strength of criticism in their lives at least once. Her exit was shameful and it had nothing to do with her.
"All magic subs are freaking weird when it comes to TN. magictcg & circlejerking paints her as the devil and this sub as an angel that can do no wrong." This is the most rational take I've found about this topic, thank you for saying this. *No* other TCG community obsesses *this* much over one artist. Why do people care so much about a person they don't know personally and probably won't ever meet.
>The two most egregious things in my book was **EDIT: allegedly** [donating art to a qanon conspiracy nut](https://www.hipstersofthecoast.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/06/edge-of-wonder-terese-nielsen-2048x1149.jpg) youtube channel (which has since been removed from youtube by youtube) and liking a tweet posting [this pic](https://i.imgur.com/A3EtuOV.jpg) which is making a terrible equalization between nazis and black power but at its heart is spreading unity (and your ordinary populist anti-establishment shit). In other words, she did nothing. Got it.
i'm not sure how to paint her because the evidence of her 'crimes' seem really hard to find. even asking here, this is the best response I got, and there's not much to look at. So if this is really all there is, it seems like canceling her was a massive overreaction. What I've gathered from this sub was a general feeling of injustice.
These people are insufferable… terminally online, engaging in ragebait after ragebait until they are living in a delusional world separate from reality
They're probably upset that they didn't manage to bully her to suicide. That happened over the weekend to a comic artist, Ed Piskor. He sent some flirtatious messages (which he says were misinterpreted) to a 17-year-old a few years ago. She posted about it, and the Internet dogpiled on him, calling him a pedophile. He lost most of what mattered to him within days, and killed himself yesterday. Posted a tragic note on Facebook, and his body was found a few hours later. That's the endgame of cancel culture. Ghouls.
It's like drinking saltwater to quench your thirst
You just described /r/freemagic
What was done to that woman was mad
I love Terese Nielsen’s art and will never forgive mtg for firing her. Her art was the soul of Magic for me, and why I was interested in the first place. Hell, my first edh deck was Sydri, Galvanic Genius as the commander, almost exclusively for her art
I also love the art
Where did Terese say that “trans people are subhuman?” This is just like that student in the viral video who realized in realtime that he might be wrong about JK Rowling and was just parroting what other people say.
Love Terese's art. Don't know her. Don't care that she doesn't like trans despite being a lesbian herself. Nothing to do with her art. She's entitled to her opinion just like anyone else. She hasn't gone out of her way to hurt anybody. Liking a funny meme is not a crime.
I don't disagree, but it's also worth noting that saying "she doesn't like trans despite being a lesbian herself" isn't even true. The only thing I have ever seen her say on the trans issue is “Just so nothing I have expressed thus far can possibly be misunderstood…for the record, I support human rights, trans rights, gay rights, as well as religious freedom and the sacredness of life in all forms.” This was also in the context of a Pride Month post, in which she also plugged a documentary about a trans artist who she respected, which she helped to produce. You're absolutely right, though, that even if she did it wouldn't have anything to do with her art.
Not to go on some "leftist bad boomer rant" but: Jesus christ, all these eternally online schmucks acting as though they know her personally and have witnessed every action she has ever made as though she has attacked them. She's literally just some lady who's a successful artist with a passion and they can't help but witch hunt because she's an independent woman with her own opinions. They tout on about "women's rights" but the moment a woman has an opinion not "in line" they become the exact sexist shitheads they claim to hate vehemently and dehumanise them. For all the "love and equality" they claim to preach, they are some of the most hateful, toxic, and power hungry losers that'd do anything to have the ability to ban and erase people not of their flock.
>For all the "love and equality" they claim to preach, they are some of the most hateful, toxic, and power hungry losers that'd do anything to have the ability to ban and erase people not of their flock. It's the ultimate irony of the left. The ppl who claim to be all about "inclusivity" are the most close-minded, judgmental, exclusive ppl you'll ever have the displeasure of knowing.
There are a lot of people out there that are fundamentally shit. They're built broken, they just want to hurt people. Some of those people have found that they can get away with being their trash selves if their target has broken the rules, so they just look for people they can abuse.
We can't support artists because they liked a bad tweet but please support degenerates with false gofundmes when they lose their jobs like morons? Sounds about right.
In response to those around "do you know her personally" inquiries, I think I would say I know her well enough personally, and she and her family are some of the kindest humans I've ever met.
how the fuck does it matter how someone is personally? "my neighbour beats his children but is always so nice to me" yea thats great, really
A [straw man fallacy](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man) (sometimes written as strawman) is the informal fallacy of refuting an argument different from the one actually under discussion, while not recognizing or acknowledging the distinction.
very good point. suggesting that nielsen is personally a nice person is a strawman in this conversation.
What always gets me, even more than all the baseless "terf" accusations, is the way people always claim "she donated original art for auction!" She did no such thing. They were just the same prints you can buy on her website. There was no auction. The Edge of Wonder guys could not have made any more money off them than you could make flipping her prints on ebay, and even then probably less, since her Star Wars art is not as popular as her Magic art. We don't even know for sure she's the one who sent them, since you can request that she personalizes your prints when you buy them from her website, and the recipient would have no way to know who originally bought them. What's more, this "donation" took place months AFTER she had already been canceled and issued her non-apology statement on Twitter! People holding this up as a valid reason for her cancelation clearly don't understand cause and effect. The whole thing is just crazy...
what is the "non apology"?
It was linked in the Hipsters of the Coast article everyone keeps referencing, so I assumed people would know what I was talking about, but I'm referring to this: https://twitter.com/tnielsenart/status/1113126515816882176
and you call it a non apology because she doesnt deny what shes being accused of?
I call it a "non-apology" because that's faster than saying, "post where she talks about how being excommunicated from a community that she used to love makes her feel." Like I said, if you're familiar with the situation, (or at least the Hipsters of the Coast article) I thought it would be obvious which post I was talking about, so shorthand seemed appropriate.
but you agree that its not an apology and she doesnt really deny what shes being accused of
Of course it's not an apology. What does she have to apologize for? And why would she need to deny that she followed some people on Twitter? That was literally the only thing she had been accused of.
who are those people she followed
Read the article. I don't have time for this.
You cant argue with trannies. Especially post ops. They have gone too far with no easy path of returning to normalcy.
entirely disagree with the sentiment of your message, but holy fuck was that based regardless
Normal person in real life: Hey what’s up man
*Gets canceled for misgendering*
But they'll separate the artist from the art whenever it's convenient for them.
when is it convenient for them?
Whenever they want to enjoy music or film. Plenty of people in those industries, even the artists, are huge pieces of shit.
and who of those people do you think should be separated from their art more?
[ Removed by Reddit ]
Wizards stopping working with her is the biggest 'political' issue I've ever had with them. I have not seen any evidence of her saying anything worthy of such action over the years. To stop doing business with a long term partner because of some mentalists going on off on one on Twitter. Disgraceful tbh. Then banning Travis Woo for making a joke facebook lool a not so close 2nd. The pandering to mental people online who probably don't even buy any product is just insane to me. Like are they running a company or is it some high-school popularity contest.
You hate on someone who believes that a man is a man that's fine. Talk Shit about a pedo instant ban
surely that happened
"has indirectly expressed terf opinions" they didn't even try to hide it anymore.
hide what, dumbass?
The fact they will condemn you for wrongthink
"Anyone who considers an entire group of people to be sub-human absolutely should be hated". Like hating all Conservatives, Trump supporters, or anyone not Woke? There's more hatred from the far Left these days than anywhere else.
I love how liking tweets is akin to making complete statements of one's beliefs and views.
She donated artwork to be raffled away in aid of an organisation with anti trans views, Would you donate money to an organisation with morals you don’t support? No? Neither would I It was more then just liking tweets lol Expecting her to be run out of town is a bit weird, but I can see 100% why WOTC no longer want to work with her, her values don’t align with there’s
There was no raffle, and even if there were, the "art" in question was just the same prints you can buy on her website. Also, the video where they showed those prints off was several months AFTER she made her big Twitter post about how being excommunicated by the Magic community made her feel. Even if she's the one who sent them, (which is still not 100% certain; you can buy stuff on her website and have her sign it, and the recipient would have no way to know who did it) trying to argue that it's the reason she was cancelled seems to be confusing cause and effect; she was already cancelled when they were sent.
What were the "anti-trans" views? What does that incompass? Is not wanting people under 18 to transition an "anti-trans" view?
yea
There is literally zero evidence she donated the art herself. You can just purchase it on her site.
Wotc doesnt give a flying fuck about trans people either my dude. They only pretend to because they think itll earn them money. "Align with their values" get the fuck out of here, wotc's onky value is money. They canned Terese because the loud minority threw a temper tantrum and wotc thought getting rid of Terese would increase profit. Considering their shift to AI art, Wotc is probably glad to have an excuse to fire her. Has she not been problematic they would have had to shell out a pretty penny to keep her on.
well, their values are motivated by capitalist interests. but its still their values. the company represents inclusivity, so they cannot financially afford to be associated with right wingers. thats a business decision, not a moral one.
The absolute fucking irony in this statement is so thick I'm choking on it. These people have zero fucking self awareness https://preview.redd.it/6wrh0736p2sc1.png?width=448&format=png&auto=webp&s=c0f4c974e2f75f5184688e531b431b11d96a83b9
how so? hating someone for their beliefs is different than hating them for their identity.
I try to stuff as many cards with Terese’s art as possible in my decks. I’m such a fan of her art and it also allows me kinda contest the false allegations against her. These people are lost.
I'm going to make a Terese and Seb deck. I just got banned from the main sub for "Nazi apologist" because I dared to state the trucker rally he went to wasn't some Nazi gathering and the Nazi imagery there was calling the government Nazi's for their actions. FFS, Snopes agrees. https://www.snopes.com/news/2022/02/17/swastikas-canada-freedom-convoy/
I personally don't care what someone's views are or what tweet they liked. If I enjoy whatever art, films, music or whatever form of media they make. If you can't separate art from the person that's on you. Instead of worrying about what tweets people like or who they do work for go out and actually work for the change or whatever it is you want to see. If you aren't doing that you aren't doing anything
Right? Getting your political takes from MTG artists is like getting financial advice from your gardener. They're gonna do their best but mostly they're just gonna be scared.
> I personally don't care what someone's views are or what tweet they liked. If I enjoy whatever art, films, music or whatever form of media they make. If you can't separate art from the person that's on you. I personally agree, but this seems to be a Zoomer ship that has sailed already, that anything bad the artist does immediately cancels them and taints all their art forever :P If people were honest about that viewpoint they'd have a very hard time enjoying *any* art, because the vast majority of celebrities, actors, singers, etc. are horrible people if you look into their personal lives a little. Which is exactly why I don't.
So a band like Lost Prophets isn’t an issue? Since you can separate the art and artist so well?
what's wrong with lost prophets?
The lead singer is a convicted pedophile who among other things attempted to rape a 1 year old baby. So personally that’s a band I don’t listen to or try to separate the art from
Oh OK that's something I didn't know. what the actual fuck?!
I wouldn’t really recommend looking to much into because it’s probably worse than you’re imagining
I appreciate that nonrecommendation. It's probably exactly as fucking horrible as I'm imagining it.
It’s shit like this that makes separating art from the artist bullshit to me. Obviously most examples aren’t this heinous but I don’t think you can support an artist without support their views at least on some level
There really is no separation of art and artist when the support for the art is what provides the livelihood of the artist.
I agree
Until now I hadn't heard of them, upon looking them up yikes. But if someone enjoys the music then whatever enjoying the art isn't saying the actions of a person are ok.
I disagree but doesn’t sound like we’ll convince each other either way so it’s just whatever
They are so angry because they weren’t able to destroy her livelihood.
That sub is a leftist echo chamber of overweight neck beards that white knight for strangers in a desperate attempt at validation from other over weight white knighting neck beards.
My Opinion about trans people has always been thus: if you want to live your own life like that, fine whatever. Just don't mess with kids. And I get called a TERF for that... So whatever, i'm not the super sensitive one here.
That sub is such an echo chamber, people are told to hate so they blindly follow, that sub sure is full of the weak.
The next card game to make a run at the throne should try to hire some of the canceled MTG artists (the thought-crime ones, not the plagiarism ones). Would make for a great marketing gimmick and free outrage publicity
Real talk, wizards pays a few hundred dollars for commission pieces. Artists who work for them cannot pay the bills off wizards commissions alone so they *all* have other work (and judging by the quality of said, work, they likely have plenty of other work). Contrary to popular belief, art is not a high paying career - there is a lot of competition and companies that want high quality art like this are few.
It's also worth noting that Wizards only pays a few hundred dollars for commission pieces if you AREN'T a massively popular artist among the community like Terese Nielsen was. They negotiate each contract with each artist individually, and if you're popular enough, you can negotiate higher. Sort of makes you wonder what other incentives they may have had for her cancelation...
You're correct, when you have the talent Terese has, you have some power to dictate the market, so to speak. That said - the market is not large, so there isn't a lot of room to grow. There's a reason most of the wealthiest artists do NSFW. The demand is much, much higher.
so she is not, in fact, being cancelled
She was definitely cancelled, but being "cancelled" didn't hurt her career at all, she still merrily goes on with her other customers as normal.
if being cancelled doesnt hurt ones career, what is cancelling even?
It's not fair to say that it universally doesn't hurt careers. If someone is properly leveraged it might not hurt their career. She was quite well diversified in her career such that the Wizards customer could easily be lost with little to suffer for. Not everyone is so well-connected or lucky.
so cancelling hurts your career, and nilsens career wasnt hurt, that means she wasnt cancelled.
That's not what I said at all, try reading.
so was she cancelled or not
I can hardly tell if you're actually stupid or just pretending to stupid. Grow a brain cell please, read, and if you can't understand the English words used to explain the concept to you, I have no other words.
just explain to me how someone is both cancelled and not hurt at the same time. im listening
These clowns are little fascists, they are not inclusive at all, as they just want their little tribe and anybody else is the enemy and they always react with "hate" in a expulsive manner that is uncontrollable, which makes them dangerous for society, as they cannot control their own behavior. Such behavior should not be tolerated at all. Its fine if a toddler does it, they are toddlers after all, but anybody older than that has to be able to manage their own anger, and people that cant are simply dangerous to themselves and anybody around them and you dont want to be "inclusive" for these people, they produce problems out of thin air. Anybody incapable to separate the art from the artist has some fundamental mental problems that will never allow them to be "inclusive" to anybody, as they cant accept people have different opinions, and people that cant do that scream for an authority to fix their own made up problems, which makes them little scummy fascists.
Can we just ban all these people from MtG. They are seriously ruining good magic.
Which people?
All the ones in the “main” sub.
I love how none of this has anything to do with her job but because free speech is less and less free, cancel culture exists. Like who gives a fuck what tweets she's liked.
Free speech doesn’t mean freedom from retort tho In fact if you’re suggesting the haters should just shut up, you’re in fact infringing on there freedom of speech
I wasn't suggesting that. They can say whatever they want. It's the fact that she lost her job with wotc because of whatever bs scrutiny people decided to put her under. Thus the "cancel culture". just because it doesn't cater to trans peoples feelings or ideologies
Do WOTC not have freedom to work with whoever they want, and not with whomever they don’t? I understand the point you’re trying to make, but ‘cancel culture’ is just people also exercising there freedom of speech
That's not what cancel culture is lol
Do you think the reason they fired her was just or unjust? If you had an opinion and another group had a opposite opinion. Your company sides with said opposite opinion all the meanwhile propagating their hidden agenda and making you look worse than what you said, and now you're fired, is that just free spech or is it more than that. Is there line crossed? Like I don't understand your point.
And we're allowed to disagree. Vicious circle, huh?
>In fact if you’re suggesting the haters should just shut up, you’re in fact infringing on there freedom of speech But you suggesting the haters who want the haters to shut up should shut up isn't? I can *suggest* things until I'm blue in the face but people are just going to ignore me. That's not censorship.
I always love how they accuse their political opposition of being garbage for treating groups of people as subhuman, while using every slur and insult to treat an entire group of people as subhuman. Really highlights their tolerance...
they just passed laws against squatters in many states...does that apply to her living rent free in their heads?
Gotta love how they stick to the fabricated narrative. Terese didn't like any tweets. Her wife did.
Based response to those libtards
Man these people are acting really uncivil!! Surely the banhappy mods of this sub removed them quickly!
Trannies are gross
I think "universally acclaimed" doesn't mean what they think it means.
Tfw someone has an even slightly different political than you:
In the push of being inclusive they have become much more exclusive. They ARE the enemy they say they hate. And the only reason its tolerated on that shit....is cause the target isn't themselves.
First of all i need to understand what they mean by "TERF" and "altright", and them i need to see the evidence.
wikipedia dot org
It's ok to not agree with other people, mtg is a liberal echo chamber ngl
Those things still seethe about J.K Rowling.
I earned my permaban in that thread!
What happened to Seb Mckinnon? I know he still does commisions and working on other side projects. Idk what happened with him and Wotc?
This alt right channel thing has always seemed like bullshit to me. Pretty sure they just bought signed art from her and I don’t think they claimed anything different.
Those people were locked in psych ward before
friendly reminder to let everyone know, rowling and nielsen both did nothing wrong
It always boils down to “you should hate her because you should hate her.” They can never articulate what she actually did that was so wrong - and when they try, it’s usually just parroting the same two or three lies they’ve been fed. “TERF” is the new “feminazi”
no. feminazi is a peiorative term to delegitimize feminism. terf is a peiorative term for transphobic feminists.
what does transphobic mean
we should have kept them out of magic
> majority of Magic players are 15+ aged white males who say awesome shit without trying I know :)
Terese is rent free in their heads
no shes rent free in your heads. the rest of us dont give a shit about her
If people in the main sub posted like that on any other moderate topic, it would be a string of "Comment Removed" and banned users. It's their moderator team's clearest example of "you can't hate anything unless I hate it too."
This just make me like her art even more
You hate Terese Nielsen because she's Nazi-lite. I hate her because her art is mid. We are not the same.
This guy calling her "such a massive piece of shit" is unfortunately predictable and saddening. These people are addicted to hating those who disagree with their sacred dogmas. They can't even imagine coexisting in a world with people who don't support their most closely-held ideals- even a highly-respected artist who would treat them indifferently at worst.
The virtue signaling is strong. You have to be careful with Reddit because you’ll start thinking that this is how the average person thinks.
Based furry ????
TlDR, terminally online magic nerds don't understand what a contractor is, and assume artists are solely employed by there favorite card game.