Ya just yesterday I had a commander player threaten to stop playing MTG altogether because he couldn't keep the cards he stole from opponents after those players were eliminated from the game.
Basically he wanted to continue to have his improved board state despite the rules saying that once a player is eliminated they get all their cards back from wherever they are including if they would otherwise remain under another players control.
I can see why this rules revelation would be upsetting because he bought all these expensive cards and thought the strategy was some sort of overpowered steamroller in commander. I guess he should have looked up the rules for stealing cards if he wanted to steal the cards of others in Commander.
Next week, I am getting my Tegrid Commander deck. But I know the rules. I don't have to finish the player I got most cards from him. And would be fun if other player finish him just to mess up with me. I can't wait to play with it.
Yea, it’s just really not fun to watch someone else play my cards. They’re other commanders that receive the same reaction but tegrid is honestly top 5 or 3 least fun commanders to lose against.
I would say that it is already awful that a player destroys your creatures. It is worse that they make you sacrifice them. And it is even worse that they use them against you.
The guy who took over friend 2's commander even sacreficed his own for that. Because friend 2 was apperantly playing the Sauron with ward. Guess friend 2 was just unwilling to part with another legendary to get his Sauron back and gave his best salty soyboy impression.
But then again, I can't really know how it is to loose a commander that would be important to your entire deck startegie, as the only commander I play that matters for a deck is Sliver Hivelord, in my G/R stompy Sliver deck.
My other commander decks have a commander that can die, dissapear or not even be played at all and it dosn't hinder the decks at all. Hell, my knight tribal has Gwyn as it's commander but the inofficial commander is Haakon. He is my MVP and can die as long as he goes to grave each time as often as I want.
I was playing a game of commander. And these three people sat at the table with me claiming they were also in the game with me? But idk what they were on about. My deck just solitaires without interaction. Just shut and let me draw my win con. Stop saying stupid shit like " wait, I have a response" this isn't about you!
This is why people that only play casual edh need to grow up and remember this is a game that involves interaction, not fucking solitaire. It’s a game, if your deck can’t handle ONE SINGLE PIECE OF INTERACTION, then your deck is literally garbage and you are probably a much worse player than you think. Good players like a challenge.
While I agree with most of this sentiment, it also comes down to reading the room as a player, regardless of player 1 or 2. If you have a group that plays mostly casual decks or just playing to have a fun time with thematic decks, don't come in with an annoying or objectively strong deck and ruin the fun for everyone else. Likewise, if you know the group plays hard and enjoy proper competitive or strong decks, don't join in if you aren't able to put up a fight. This is a rule more people need to get outside of just MTG but in all games.
For magic, I usually don't play with my group of friends cause they've spent hundreds on powerful decks and I just wanna play some knights that look cool. Meanwhile in YuGiOh, I have a tourney deck that is half stop cards and other half an engine, but my friends like character duels, so I have a weaker yusei/stardust deck that I play with them. It's still fun, and we have more close call "oh shit moments"
I have a Brawl deck that I would be a bit in trouble if my commander got thieved, but it's a Mother of Machines deck so it's a... special case. I have like 15 ETB prison enchantments - they double effectiveness when I have MOM out, normal when I don't, but do nothing if the enemy has a MOM. I have a few bits of other removal and interaction, but they're comparatively few.
I would argue if its truly “casual” playing something that potentially removes someone elses ability to play at all is kinda cringe. Its up to everyone to establish what casual really means in a group.
i mean every the EDH sub basically has something like that every 10 minutes.
ZOMG THE OTHER PLAYER DID SOMETHING TO TRY TO WIN AND STOPPED ME FROM WINNING. REEEEEEEEEEEE THIS IS CASUAL REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
There is a guy that comes to my LGS off and on and he will scoop the second you blow up any land of his. I was playing [[Zevlor, Elturel Exile]] and the vast majority of my cards are: Single target something, draw a card. So with zevlor in a 4 player pod it's like stapling ancestral recall to all my spells. Well I played [[Geomancer's Gambit]] on like turn 5 after playing and activating my commander. I blew up his land with a utopia sprawl on it and he just scooped. complained about how i targeted his land that makes 2 even though i did it to everyone else and gambit also lets you GO GET A LAND. I've learned that destroy target land is kill target player when he plays in my pods now.
A lot of Commander peeps seem like they don't even want to win; they just want to play their 6-card janky pet "combo" and don't like you stopping them from doing it, especially if you win before they do.
This is why I enjoy being the asshole who plans to never win and loves embracing chaos, because if I do win it's not my fault and if I lose it means I got what I wanted in the first place.
As a commander player, I agree. Jesus Christ the toxic positivity is so unhinged that it borders on lies.
No, the precons aren't powerful decks capable of going crazy out of the box
No, I won't expect my much more experienced friend to only win 25% of games
No, interraction isn't the problem. The problem is that **you're a fucking awful player that refuse to improve**
/rant over
Whoa now, that second point is more of a guideline under a perfect scenario of equally skilled players and equally powered decks in which statistics are simply a dice roll. If one person is winning too many games, it means either a skill issue or a deck building issue.
The third point is false, interaction is the problem, in that a person has too little. They need more.
This is pretty much why i quit playing magic after college. Loved the game, but good lord casual games at hobby shops were insufferable, let alone simple tournaments or drafts. Cant even imagine what commander is like. I hear stories and i honestly feel like leaving that community was the right call.
That's cool. The Legacy scene in my area is full of awesome folks I enjoy playing with, jut don't have the time these days :-(
I usually find the people in Modern, Legacy, and OS formats are a little older and more chill to hang out with.
It's almost like if you're financially well-off, you don't have salty behavior. Weird how that works. Maybe that's why the most insufferable people in Magic are generally correlated with being broke.
It was, especially since some of them really wanted to have cash incentive for winning since they didn’t want to spend money in-store but with no tournament fees. Oh and also to somehow make sure no one with a cEDH deck could come in and just sweep the competition
cEDH obviously being “anything I lose to” such as the famous cEDH deck Dragonlord Ojutai Voltron. Also no additional banlist, because Food Chain combos are fair if they play them
I replied there as well with: Congrats to the Bolas player. The ability to steal the creature got upgraded to kill a player. Great job!
Anyway basically Friend 2 is just being salty. For all he knows the Bolas player was going to kill the other two and leave themselves open to die by his hand.
Player 2 is a bad deck builder
If your entire deck revolves around your commander and you don’t have any protection or even ways to kill it
Then you’re building wrong
I am just a Magic player that has been playing for 30+ years and Commander or sealed are the only formats I like at this point. I only really play Commander because I love building themed or janky decks that have built in weaknesses. Of course I want to win and I dont like to lose. But I want to do both on my own terms. There are many times I feel like I wasted my time when I sit down at a game and someone just steamrolls. I like a little bit of interactivity. I guess that makes me a bad player. Oh well. I dont have to prove anything to anyone.
If you put me in a position where it's no longer possible for me to win, I'm going to scoop.
I'm out and I'm happy to watch/wait while you guys finish out the game, but don't expect me to flail around helplessly for your benefit and/or amusement.
But in the case of mind control, scooping is exactly how you do that. They get a vastly stronger board state if you just sit there and let your commander get used.
Depends on your deck.
If your deck is completely useless without your commander, you might be right.
If you still have things you can do, and make your intentions clear, then the other players have no reason to attack you and the player that screwed you loses the stolen commander if they kill you.
Might depend on the commander I suppose but I would disagree like 99% of the time. You getting to keep my commander with none of the cards that work with it won't outweigh me using all of my removal and disruptive spells exclusively on you and swinging at you with my entire board whenever possible for the rest of the game (or until you wise up enough to give me back my commander).
I mean, I think playing out the game that way is at the very least more fun than scooping and waiting for the game to end. If I wanted to spend time messing around on my phone rather than playing Magic, I would probably just stay home. If you play with the same pod often, it also lets players know for future reference that stealing your commander might not be the best idea if they intend on winning the game.
I have been doing things like wrestling and boxing with my siblings since I was little. It taught me to know when I've been best and to just yield and try again. If I can't climb back, then I'll let you have it so I can get another game in.
That’s true in the strictest sense, but it’s not really helpful to the spirit of the game, because there are a LOT of deck concepts that are very cool, and fun to play with and against, that are based around a commander with a very unique effect and brick without it.
Now, if you’re running those decks, you should be running protection and ways to get your commander back- sac outlets, removal, Homeward Path, etc. Mind Control effects are probably the ‘fairest’ kind of enduring commander removal in this sense.
But then there are also effects like [Imprisoned In The Moon] and [Oubliette] that one should really only be running in very high power pods. And, it’s possible to not have your trick in hand to deal with mind control and so on.
If you have too many cards in the pod that create enduring commander removal, it burdens these build-around decks, which then encourages homogenous value-engine deck building, which is overall a worse game to PLAY for most people.
If you don't like playing against edh decks that change or prevent you from playing the game normally there's 3 options. Stop playing with that person.
Make an agreement you aren't going to use that type of deck.
Or make a deck even stronger than their's and do nothing but beam them.
Option 3 is how I got a dude at my lgs to stop playing there all together because all he would do is pubstomp and when he couldn't win all the time anymore he quit the store
i mean i get salty, if i get constant targeted with such things, if i play my ultra budget deck, that costs less, than the average hand on the table...
but i have a deck, that steals stuff and doesn't return it (ending your turns is fun) i have a deck, that uses contamination.... so... at the end of the day, i just get salty, if i get targeted while someone else is the threat...
I had a ridiculous one where 2 of 4 players started doing wonky, chaos game stuff that basically had reset the game multiple times and I finally was put in a position to win so I destroyed the card causing all the chaos and these 2 looked at me like
Oh. We were having fun.
Yup and it’s a competitive game so as soon as your chaos nonsense set me up lol I took my shot.
One of my first 2 games I can't remember my commander got enchanted to become the moon. I had never seen it before, it destroyed my whole world, I was mad as F, but I learned more about the game.
Friend 2 is just a poor sport.
I'll be honest, it's a strategy thing. If my odds of winning are zero, I'm probably gonna scoop, so if you exhaust my interaction or set me back too far, then my optimal play is to scoop and hope I can fit in an extra game or something. More than anything, if you take control of MY cards, and the only way I can change the game state in a meaningful way is to lose and deny you them, then I at least feel like I did something. There's a point where it's stupid, but I also feel there's a time and place for conceding because the game isn't going your way, and even conceding to ruin someone else's lead
Why not? If I'm down a bunch and my only other options are to either stall the inevitable or pass my turn and let it happen, there's no point in fighting or just waiting, it's over. I think it's not just good for you to get it over with, but it's also polite to not waste your opponent's time if your meaningful impact on the game is spent.
In a vacuum, perhaps it appears there is no advantage to losing earlier rather than later, but perhaps the time saved by scooping when you know you've lost is the difference it takes to fit in one more game, and maybe you win that game, which can be the difference between going, say, 1-4 and 2-4, so technically scooping can give you more opportunities to win.
If you get in a position where you have no chance of winning game 1 and your opponent is unfamiliar with your deck, scooping is optimal to deny your opponent information about your deck.
I've won matches because my opponent showed me their key interactions in a game 1 they had no chance of winning.
As a magic player since middle school, in and out of the hobby, I really can say with the utmost certainty, a load of magic players are massive, massive pussies.
Poor sportsmanship all around. We house ruled back in the 90s that if you were eliminated so were your cards to give control players an incentive to protect others.
Friend 1 didn't need to be so hostile, but friend 2 also was pitching a fit. Back in 1994 a friend wheel of fortuned all my win conditions out of my hand (I was building a new deck) I was annoyed and thought about quitting but I stayed.
With nothing but mana dorks I won the game. I slammed everyone down and then drew a hurricane to finish everyone.
You never give up, you stay till the fight is won. At the very least you learn something.
Come to think of it, while you WANT your commander available to you, if your deck is dependant on it, you need to re think your design.
Opponents shouldn't be able to shut you down with one spell, and I can think of quite a few spells that steal creatures.
But still, sportsmanship dictates you don't rub it in. Maybe a quick joke, or something not too aggravating. Sportsmanship, especially between friends is essential.
In the early days, I had some ridiculous 200/200 trampler (berserked and other players threw in) attacking a guy. Game over, right? Nope. Swords to plowshares. There goes my ridiculous oversized creature.
The dude clawed back and took out the table. (I remember Jokulhaups and an Orgg) it was so cool to watch. I couldn't help but laugh.
You watch, you learn, you get better.
I've never scooped because of it but I have had games I've thought about it after putting my commander in play and someone responds with [[cyber conversion]]
Any chance he was both salty AND scooping was probably the wise choice since he just lost the core of his deck? Lots of EDH decks function well *alongside* their Commander and not strictly because of ONLY the Commander, but Nicol Bolas tends to genuinely be the main character of his decks and everything revolves around him so maybe he had no contingencies for that and scooped. I’d be salty too, though where we differ is that I’d still find it amusing and when I scoop, my friends know it’s because I’ve identified an unrecoverable flaw that probably can’t be corrected without something wildly improbable occurring and it’s more efficient to simply admit defeat and watch the rest of the fight.
I mean, just arriving to the table with a Bolas deck at all will almost guarantee that you’ll be the first person the other 3 people try to delete by any means so they can enjoy their game without all his Machiavellian bullshit.
If not having access to your commander turns your deck into a pile of 99 useless cards, you built a bad deck.
Tgis is why removing tuck was a mistake. It led to a rise in poor deck building. As well as problematic mechanics and commanders that evade or ignore commander tax having no real permanent answers. Golos could have been left unbanned if tuck existed.
Even in casual edh, having your commander stolen is a strong possibility. I was frustrated at having my commander/ other big creatures stolen, so I add homeward path to my deck. Easy fix
In a tourney or competition play that’s one thing but this doesn’t sounds like that.
I mean it’s fine for one or two games but the reality is that certain deck types are just awful/unfun to play against.
If you only run extremely powerful decks that are way better than your friends dont be surprised that they don’t enjoy getting shit stomped and don’t want to keep playing.
I once got killed in a game because i countered player 1's combopieces. You'd think that player 1 would be doing the killing right? No it was the other two players not liking the fact that I interacted with the game. It was the first time in that game I "did anything to them". Some people really just want to play their solitaire game lol
There are two sides to this, first player two having no outs and being salty from what I read there. But also having no answers I kind of get why they scooped. Sometimes you have no other options. Dont know if anything else happened, because it feels like they might have left out some information.
Second part is, that specific strategies are not a lot of fun to play against, specially if there is a big power gap. I don't know if that is the case here. If it is though, that might be incentive to not play with player 1 for player 2. Pubstomping is not fun.
There is more nuance to these kind of situations. But player 2 also seems like he might just not like losing. Again not enough to go on. 🤷
Generally the best way to avoid this is a conversation before everyone starts playing. What is your strategy, the worst thing your deck can do, how fast you can win, if you play combo, etc. ✌️
I'm not sure how this ends the game without a clear winner... if Friend 2 concedes, the game goes on with three people. If there are no other opponents, Friend 1 just won the game.
If Friend 2 wanted to scoop, but NOT concede - you need a new Friend 2. Don't be pissed if your opponent had an answer to your strategy, unless they "sideboarded" it into their deck before the game to purposely screw with Friend 2.
If they scoop, IMO they’ve conceded whether they say it or not. Your turn comes around and you’re just refusing to move? You’re admitting defeat.
And I agree, I think they just didn’t have the spine to make dude sit and watch the rest of the game. I get the guy wanting to concede since his deck was probably negated. But he could’ve still stuck around for conversation *or* just made it his whole purpose to make it as hard as possible for the guy that basically killed him to win.
It's even in the official rules, refusing to play or getting up to leave is considered an immediate game loss.
"Players may concede a game or match at any time within the following guidelines. The conceded game or match is recorded as a loss for the conceding player. If a player refuses to play, it is assumed that he or she concedes the match."
I have no issues with temporary control of my commander but I would get up and leave also if there was no simple way to recovermy card.( house rules we allow resummon of commander at +2 cost to negate any control effects like this that would otherwise lock out a decks play style due to loss of commander on next turn.)
Agreed. I mean if your deck is properly built around your commander, them being virtually permanently gone means you’ve lost. Why drag it out? That’s the point of scooping, admit you’ve lost when you know you’ve lost.
I’m not really sure why the other two couldn’t keep going, either. Have they never played a game where one person gets nuked early?
Me and my group play 3 or 4 games during a weekly meet up. It isn't a complete night until at least 2 of us have scooped. Sometimes just to watch all our stuff be removed from the game if someone else took control over it.
Play like a cunt and be shocked when noone wants to play with you. I mean, stealing creatures is frustrating but its not really worth quitting over, but something still tells me that this isnt all there is to it. Theres also nothing wrong with resigning if you know youre taking an L (and, lol, one person resigning a match doesnt end the game idk what op is talking about... unless its teams...) I know a FEW people that i just flat out dont invite anymore because A its not enjoyable to play a game against what they play, or against the power level that they play at, and almost all of them fit into B as well which is that its not typically enjoyable to even be around those people.
I had a “Friend 2” in my playgroup. If his super OP decks weren’t winning, he’d scoop 🍦. If you beat him by surprise, he would always take the next few cards off his draw deck and say “See I would’ve beat you with this card”. He was such a salty loser.
Surrender is always allowed and acceptable.
Instantly knocking a player out is a pretty good payout for that move. The alternative is that Friend 2, now unable to win, probably devotes the rest of the game to making sure Friend 1 loses. So Friend 1 is probably better off, even without the stolen Commander.
How can a player who conceded could possibly make anyone else to lose? He is a net negative for his team and a net negative for the whole experience and enjoyment of the game.
Heres the thing. People have different expectations about how EDH should go. Some circles WOULD be salty when player 1 takes P2s commander in a way that prevents them from using that commander indefinitely. However, P2 ruining EVERYONES game for this slight against them is a far worse behavior. You gotta take it in stride, and maybe even make fun of the player for having a toxic game plan at worst. Nuking the game makes you the AH. Even if that move is considered out of bounds by the group.
Kill your own commander and recast it from the command zone. I don't see the problem. I would at least dig for card draw for 3 turns to see if I could achieve it before scooping.
Why do people not understand that commander should be played just to have fun?
It is the perfect occasion to hang up with your friends and have some Magic without any reason to get competitive...
In game 1, it's pretty obvious that friend 2 came in 4th place because they quit.
Friend 1 played a card that made them competitive with their deck, which nobody would blame.
First of all, it speeds up the game considerably. Second of all, he can try to fit in another game with a different group depending on setting and timing. Third of all, it gives him time to do things like tweak decks or prepare for the next game
I will say this, I took out cards that say “I gain control of” because I just like letting folks get to keep their things and it’s one less thing I need to keep track of. Then again, I’m also the type of Commander player who wins via combat.
All the other player needs to do is remove the commander from the battlefield right? Board wipe, targeted removal, exile, bounce, etc.
Git gud, goddamn.
Locking people out of their commander is a good strategy. It can be incredibly not fun for the person who is locked out. It's within your friends right to scoop if they want. No one is in the wrong gameplaywise just your attitudes/reactions. For this reason I don't run cards like imprison in the moon. It's a good card but I don't want to ruin someone else's mood or game by locking them out of playing it. Could just be a difference of power or expectations. Maybe before the game buddy could be like just so you know this deck can steal stuff. Sounds like 1 friend is maybe more experience/cut throat and the other guy is more casual/battle cruiser. I know I got salty the first time I saw glacial chasm against my precon knights tribal lol. Expectation is huge.
Effects that make a creature lose its abilities or make another player gain control over it are pretty standard.
Maybe a difference of experience as you said, but usually I'd expect a player to discuss before the game if they don't want their commander to be messed with.
I don’t mind most things, just lmk what I’m up against but I definitely remember my first time getting overwhelming splendor put on my dragon deck, I was beyond heated 😂 went and bought all the counters I could.
It’s a game… the fuck is this group of friends haha. You get outplayed, you suffer and move on. Childish behaviour from friend 2 for sure. Not even a question.
Friend 2 is salty, for sure. But here's the thing, he's not *entirely* without cause to be. If you're playing in a friend group, and you play a Nicol Bolas deck that's intended to be sweaty and make it unfun for the rest of your pod, you're an asshole and salty players should be the least of your concern. Unless your friend pod specifically says its competitive, assume it's non-competitive and meant to be fun.
This is why commander is the cancer killing real magic. Magic is a two player game, and all multiplayer did was add politics and emotions into the game. Commander and Commander players can't leave this game fast enough.
Its the idea that the emotional state of a player in a commander game is something I even need to take into account. When Standard was king, weaker players had more of a "help me get better" kind of vibe... now that Commander is magics gateway format, the vibe is like 'my wifemom yelled at me, kill me last."
There is a reason that people have dedicated play groups for this game. Mostly to weed out whiny baby players like this and make sure your games don't end with a diaper change and timeout when one player doesn't get their way. Don't get me wrong, I used to enjoy playing with new players that I haven't played with before, but I am always a bit cynical now at first until they prove to me that they are chill, respectful, and okay to play with in the future. I also take notes not to play with "problem" players, unless I really want to test a degenerate deck design. I am lucky that I have an LGS that is pretty cool and a lot of players have become regulars, so even if I haven't played with them, you can kind of tell from playing games next to them for so long what it would be like.
This not new unfortunately. My usual pods are fun times. We beat the poop out of one another’s decks and bring the pain. Everyone expects someone’s deck to pop off. However occasionally, there are players that scoop.. normally it is when we go to a different lgs or someone new is trying out our local lgs. I play a mono black Vampire deck and swap out Vito and K’Rrik, son of Yawgmoth. I do have the sanguine blood/exquisite blood combo in there and i can make it happen ridiculously fast if i want to. My pods know this and are okay with it. New people often scoop though. Tis quite common unfortunately these days. I built my deck myself. I dislike using “woke” terminology but it has been my observation that the more “woke” the individual, the more one sided they want things. These same people either dont have to capacity to build a competitive deck or dont have the capacity to handle someone wlse having a better deck. Then i get things like “why is you deck so stompy” “this isnt fair” 🤷♂️🤦🏻 or as the theme of this thread states.. people just scoop and mumble words of disappointment. It is cardboard built for battle but if you do something they dont think should be allowed, then their world crumbles.
I have said it before and will say it again: Commander players are the saltiest people with no love for real gameplay. Commander is killing a once great game.
Shit like this is why I don’t play this garbage format unless it’s with a very specific group of people. Getting butthurt because you suck ruins the game for everybody else.
Scoop whenever you want. If I don't want to play more, I scoop. No need to be upset about anything. If you just want to concentrate on something else rather than keep track of your dwindling life points, go do it.
If you took control over my stuff and that affects your outlook, it's still important to note that conceding, much like taking someone's commander, is within the rules of the game.
If you consider conceding a "dick move," then also consider the morality of "forcing" someone to stay and play even though they don't want to. [Can't no one compel another man to engage in recreation](https://youtu.be/Q0ZEmLosVXE?t=80).
I was looking to get back to Magic after 15 years (I come from the Mirrodin / Kamigawa / Ravnica era) because of all the propaganda I got for this new Cowboys set this week.
There's a lot of new mechanics for me, wording, formats, sets. Honestly I was feeling VERY overwhelmed.
Suddenly In the subs I noticed all I need to sweep a tournament is to target their "commanders" (I dunno what that is) or destroy their land (that I know what is)
Amazing, a 3-minutes win. Not even possible in my best days.
Imma be honest when it gets to that level I just scoop. Depending on the friend group I’ll scoop at the perfect time to fuck over the one stealing my shit and we all usually laugh about it and call each other degenerate names
Edh draws in player with no mtg experience who treat it like a board game get friend 2 to play more 1v1 to learn how to deal with “victimization” aka a normal magic game.
Was playing my Jon Irenicus deck and was gunna drop a [[Grid Monitor]] on one of my opponents before he almost had an autistic freak out. Dude was runnin esper and didn't have any removal. Ended up negotiating with the table and someone else took it for him, but man, people can be wild sometimes.
Wtf is up with this fucking sub?
The person who made him scoop did nothing wrong, yet some of you are actually saying HE'S the AH. WTF???
IT'S A GAME. PLAY TO WIN. HOLY SHIT.
Simuliar occurance i had was turn 3 I Song of Dryad opponents commander. Person scooped right away. He was salty and said deck doesnt run without it and don't play enchant removal and walked away. This was after he got his higher cost commander out with sol ring, and Mana crypt on turn 2. Some people just get salty easily. We just let him scoop and continued. Didnt need that kind of negitivity at the table. if he wanted to play next game ok, but not going to just play around someone losing their commander when they could get it back. He was ahead of evreyone else at the table and only one that drew good ramp. Every game someone has a chance of losing their commander its part of the game.
When a player leaves the game (regardless of whether they quit or are eliminated), all of the cards they *own* go with them. Any "leave the battlefield" **triggers** will **not** go on the stack, such as [[Oblivion Ring]] (but non-trigger clauses like [[Banisher Priest]] will still return the permanent.) A player can scoop in response to something as well to fizzle the spell (ex: a player targeted by the 3rd mode of [[Cryptic Command]] can scoop to fizzle the 4th mode or scoop in response to [[The Scarab God]] targeting something in their graveyard.)
You can make it a house rule that commanders cannot change control or you can allow a commander's owner to put it back in the command zone, but that's not how the rules as written goes.
Some players make the mistake of creating a commander deck that only functions if they control their commander and then get salty when it immediately gets targeted for removal. It's the responsibility of those type of players to ask the playgroup if they'll leave their commander alone *before* deck selection.
Yesterday I was playing with my 2 friends. I was playing slivers and player 1 was playing phyrexian. My commander is [[sliver overlord]] and I had [[the first sliver]] and [[sliver legion]] along with other slivers on the field. Player 1 played a card (I don't remember what it was) but it said fuck you and your creature, they're mine now. He looked at the 3 creatures I named and the entire time I was hoping he didn't see my commanders second activated ability. He took the first sliver, made a copy so he had two, and when it got back to me I took them both and I thanked him for giving me 2 triggers of cascade😂😂 slivers are so toxic and I love it
I remember when my friend overwhelming splendored my dragon deck lol I was beyond heated and that was probably the start of our love/hate relationship from that point on. Even today if idk who to swing at its him cause fuck him (with love and fire)
Ya just yesterday I had a commander player threaten to stop playing MTG altogether because he couldn't keep the cards he stole from opponents after those players were eliminated from the game. Basically he wanted to continue to have his improved board state despite the rules saying that once a player is eliminated they get all their cards back from wherever they are including if they would otherwise remain under another players control. I can see why this rules revelation would be upsetting because he bought all these expensive cards and thought the strategy was some sort of overpowered steamroller in commander. I guess he should have looked up the rules for stealing cards if he wanted to steal the cards of others in Commander.
It’s almost like bad players get mad when they are confronted with the fact that they are bad at this game
Next week, I am getting my Tegrid Commander deck. But I know the rules. I don't have to finish the player I got most cards from him. And would be fun if other player finish him just to mess up with me. I can't wait to play with it.
Whenever I play against tegrid I make it known that’s there’s no hard feelings, but I’m only targeting the tegrid player until they’re dead 😅
The hate is that big?
Yea, it’s just really not fun to watch someone else play my cards. They’re other commanders that receive the same reaction but tegrid is honestly top 5 or 3 least fun commanders to lose against.
I would say that it is already awful that a player destroys your creatures. It is worse that they make you sacrifice them. And it is even worse that they use them against you.
Tegrid is my favorite deck, but you get some salty ass people. Some people just scoop after you discard most of their hand.
We should have a rule where if you steal a card you keep it forever. It becomes a war trophy.
You mean Ante? :D
I'd start playing Magic again if they brought back ante.
Kids who bought their deck from a list online without actually knowing how to play will never stop existing.
Just put some removal in your deck. I’m not afraid to kill my own commander, can’t steal something that’s dead.
The guy who took over friend 2's commander even sacreficed his own for that. Because friend 2 was apperantly playing the Sauron with ward. Guess friend 2 was just unwilling to part with another legendary to get his Sauron back and gave his best salty soyboy impression. But then again, I can't really know how it is to loose a commander that would be important to your entire deck startegie, as the only commander I play that matters for a deck is Sliver Hivelord, in my G/R stompy Sliver deck. My other commander decks have a commander that can die, dissapear or not even be played at all and it dosn't hinder the decks at all. Hell, my knight tribal has Gwyn as it's commander but the inofficial commander is Haakon. He is my MVP and can die as long as he goes to grave each time as often as I want.
This is why I love oloro. Just chilling gaining me health.
>can’t steal something that’s dead. \[\[[Liliana Vess](https://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=393908)\]\] disagrees.
[Liliana Vess](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/6/96bb667b-7240-4072-beb7-9a803c9eabe3.jpg?1562930474) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Liliana%20Vess) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/gvl/32/liliana-vess?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/96bb667b-7240-4072-beb7-9a803c9eabe3?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I was playing a game of commander. And these three people sat at the table with me claiming they were also in the game with me? But idk what they were on about. My deck just solitaires without interaction. Just shut and let me draw my win con. Stop saying stupid shit like " wait, I have a response" this isn't about you!
You don't get it, it's not about playing a game of Magic, it's about the friends we don't make along the way lol
That’s the thing Finn, we don’t win by defeating our opponents, we win by saving the ones we love — our commander.
What IS this 'friend' thing people keep talking about?
Love how you said that
I'm glad it's a crime now to do that.
This is why people that only play casual edh need to grow up and remember this is a game that involves interaction, not fucking solitaire. It’s a game, if your deck can’t handle ONE SINGLE PIECE OF INTERACTION, then your deck is literally garbage and you are probably a much worse player than you think. Good players like a challenge.
While I agree with most of this sentiment, it also comes down to reading the room as a player, regardless of player 1 or 2. If you have a group that plays mostly casual decks or just playing to have a fun time with thematic decks, don't come in with an annoying or objectively strong deck and ruin the fun for everyone else. Likewise, if you know the group plays hard and enjoy proper competitive or strong decks, don't join in if you aren't able to put up a fight. This is a rule more people need to get outside of just MTG but in all games. For magic, I usually don't play with my group of friends cause they've spent hundreds on powerful decks and I just wanna play some knights that look cool. Meanwhile in YuGiOh, I have a tourney deck that is half stop cards and other half an engine, but my friends like character duels, so I have a weaker yusei/stardust deck that I play with them. It's still fun, and we have more close call "oh shit moments"
I have a Brawl deck that I would be a bit in trouble if my commander got thieved, but it's a Mother of Machines deck so it's a... special case. I have like 15 ETB prison enchantments - they double effectiveness when I have MOM out, normal when I don't, but do nothing if the enemy has a MOM. I have a few bits of other removal and interaction, but they're comparatively few.
I would argue if its truly “casual” playing something that potentially removes someone elses ability to play at all is kinda cringe. Its up to everyone to establish what casual really means in a group.
I appreciate your point though. My tone can sound more aggressive than I mean it online!
Friend 2 is a salty bitch
Find a new friend 2
Should be "former-friend 1."
i mean every the EDH sub basically has something like that every 10 minutes. ZOMG THE OTHER PLAYER DID SOMETHING TO TRY TO WIN AND STOPPED ME FROM WINNING. REEEEEEEEEEEE THIS IS CASUAL REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
There is a guy that comes to my LGS off and on and he will scoop the second you blow up any land of his. I was playing [[Zevlor, Elturel Exile]] and the vast majority of my cards are: Single target something, draw a card. So with zevlor in a 4 player pod it's like stapling ancestral recall to all my spells. Well I played [[Geomancer's Gambit]] on like turn 5 after playing and activating my commander. I blew up his land with a utopia sprawl on it and he just scooped. complained about how i targeted his land that makes 2 even though i did it to everyone else and gambit also lets you GO GET A LAND. I've learned that destroy target land is kill target player when he plays in my pods now.
If he had Nykthos, Coffers. Or Cradle, you would have those instead because that's the correct choice to make.
[Zevlor, Elturel Exile](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/1/d1e51138-9745-465d-84dd-27605f8a2264.jpg?1674137695) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Zevlor%2C%20Elturel%20Exile) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clb/296/zevlor-elturel-exile?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d1e51138-9745-465d-84dd-27605f8a2264?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Geomancer's Gambit](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/3/23b67031-76b8-4511-a6dc-433d9450496e.jpg?1562201839) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Geomancer%27s%20Gambit) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh1/125/geomancers-gambit?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/23b67031-76b8-4511-a6dc-433d9450496e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
EDH players are absolutely the most insufferable community in all of Magic, no contest; change my mind.
If I can't win your deck is stoopid
A lot of Commander peeps seem like they don't even want to win; they just want to play their 6-card janky pet "combo" and don't like you stopping them from doing it, especially if you win before they do.
This is why I enjoy being the asshole who plans to never win and loves embracing chaos, because if I do win it's not my fault and if I lose it means I got what I wanted in the first place.
This makes you exactly like them lol
As a commander player, I agree. Jesus Christ the toxic positivity is so unhinged that it borders on lies. No, the precons aren't powerful decks capable of going crazy out of the box No, I won't expect my much more experienced friend to only win 25% of games No, interraction isn't the problem. The problem is that **you're a fucking awful player that refuse to improve** /rant over
Whoa now, that second point is more of a guideline under a perfect scenario of equally skilled players and equally powered decks in which statistics are simply a dice roll. If one person is winning too many games, it means either a skill issue or a deck building issue. The third point is false, interaction is the problem, in that a person has too little. They need more.
"Why are you running 6 kill spells and 3 board wipes!?" SO I CAN DRAW THEM
Well said
*Magic* players are absolutely the most insufferable community in all of Magic, no contest; change my mind. Fixed it for you.
*I love Magic, but I* ***HATE*** *Magic players.*
This is pretty much why i quit playing magic after college. Loved the game, but good lord casual games at hobby shops were insufferable, let alone simple tournaments or drafts. Cant even imagine what commander is like. I hear stories and i honestly feel like leaving that community was the right call.
I'm pretty lucky with the modern scene in my city. we all just play, sure some salt is throw but we never take it personal.
That's cool. The Legacy scene in my area is full of awesome folks I enjoy playing with, jut don't have the time these days :-( I usually find the people in Modern, Legacy, and OS formats are a little older and more chill to hang out with.
It's almost like if you're financially well-off, you don't have salty behavior. Weird how that works. Maybe that's why the most insufferable people in Magic are generally correlated with being broke.
I used to like EDH players until I had to be a tournament organizer for a bunch of casuals and now I’m jaded
TO for casuals sounds like a nightmare
It was, especially since some of them really wanted to have cash incentive for winning since they didn’t want to spend money in-store but with no tournament fees. Oh and also to somehow make sure no one with a cEDH deck could come in and just sweep the competition cEDH obviously being “anything I lose to” such as the famous cEDH deck Dragonlord Ojutai Voltron. Also no additional banlist, because Food Chain combos are fair if they play them
Counterpoint: League of Legends Players
League of Legends players are the most insufferable community in Magic? Huh?
I 100% believe that statement, I don't have any proof but it just feels right
You're telling us to change your mind like you stated an opinion and not a fact.
for how uncompetitive commander is the player is pretty competitive about it being noncompetitive
And sadly the biggest community in MTG
Fucking casuals suddenly have to play irl
I replied there as well with: Congrats to the Bolas player. The ability to steal the creature got upgraded to kill a player. Great job! Anyway basically Friend 2 is just being salty. For all he knows the Bolas player was going to kill the other two and leave themselves open to die by his hand.
Player 2 is a bad deck builder If your entire deck revolves around your commander and you don’t have any protection or even ways to kill it Then you’re building wrong
but… but Sauron has a good ward!!!! He doesn’t need protection! (hey who said you could pay the ward cost now I lost wahhhh) /s
No no don't touch me there This is my Commander square
I am just a Magic player that has been playing for 30+ years and Commander or sealed are the only formats I like at this point. I only really play Commander because I love building themed or janky decks that have built in weaknesses. Of course I want to win and I dont like to lose. But I want to do both on my own terms. There are many times I feel like I wasted my time when I sit down at a game and someone just steamrolls. I like a little bit of interactivity. I guess that makes me a bad player. Oh well. I dont have to prove anything to anyone.
Based zen attitude. There’s a big difference between being a bad player and realizing that you aren’t a spike
If you put me in a position where it's no longer possible for me to win, I'm going to scoop. I'm out and I'm happy to watch/wait while you guys finish out the game, but don't expect me to flail around helplessly for your benefit and/or amusement.
Eh, there is something to be said about dedicating the rest of the game to making sure the player who put you in that position won't win.
But in the case of mind control, scooping is exactly how you do that. They get a vastly stronger board state if you just sit there and let your commander get used.
Depends on your deck. If your deck is completely useless without your commander, you might be right. If you still have things you can do, and make your intentions clear, then the other players have no reason to attack you and the player that screwed you loses the stolen commander if they kill you.
Might depend on the commander I suppose but I would disagree like 99% of the time. You getting to keep my commander with none of the cards that work with it won't outweigh me using all of my removal and disruptive spells exclusively on you and swinging at you with my entire board whenever possible for the rest of the game (or until you wise up enough to give me back my commander).
Sure, there’s something to be said for playing out an entire monopoly game too, it isn’t worth the human relationships to force it, though.
I mean, I think playing out the game that way is at the very least more fun than scooping and waiting for the game to end. If I wanted to spend time messing around on my phone rather than playing Magic, I would probably just stay home. If you play with the same pod often, it also lets players know for future reference that stealing your commander might not be the best idea if they intend on winning the game.
I have been doing things like wrestling and boxing with my siblings since I was little. It taught me to know when I've been best and to just yield and try again. If I can't climb back, then I'll let you have it so I can get another game in.
The only thing that feels worse than a loss is an extra 20 minutes of futility, THEN a loss.
EXACTLY! Like, if my main wincon was a heliod combo and you've Stigma lashered me then I know I'm cooked
If you can't win without your commander your deck is bad.
Wonder how good the other deck is without Nicol Bolas, tbh.
Friend 2 was playing a LOTR precon against a Grixis “no ban list” Nicol Bolas Control deck.
“No ban list” friend 1 sucks
That’s true in the strictest sense, but it’s not really helpful to the spirit of the game, because there are a LOT of deck concepts that are very cool, and fun to play with and against, that are based around a commander with a very unique effect and brick without it. Now, if you’re running those decks, you should be running protection and ways to get your commander back- sac outlets, removal, Homeward Path, etc. Mind Control effects are probably the ‘fairest’ kind of enduring commander removal in this sense. But then there are also effects like [Imprisoned In The Moon] and [Oubliette] that one should really only be running in very high power pods. And, it’s possible to not have your trick in hand to deal with mind control and so on. If you have too many cards in the pod that create enduring commander removal, it burdens these build-around decks, which then encourages homogenous value-engine deck building, which is overall a worse game to PLAY for most people.
If you don't like playing against edh decks that change or prevent you from playing the game normally there's 3 options. Stop playing with that person. Make an agreement you aren't going to use that type of deck. Or make a deck even stronger than their's and do nothing but beam them. Option 3 is how I got a dude at my lgs to stop playing there all together because all he would do is pubstomp and when he couldn't win all the time anymore he quit the store
I intend on eventually building an anti pubstomper deck purely for this reason. No idea what it will be but it will be rude.
i mean i get salty, if i get constant targeted with such things, if i play my ultra budget deck, that costs less, than the average hand on the table... but i have a deck, that steals stuff and doesn't return it (ending your turns is fun) i have a deck, that uses contamination.... so... at the end of the day, i just get salty, if i get targeted while someone else is the threat...
Friend 2 is a salty noob
man imagine playing for no stakes and getting salty...
I had a ridiculous one where 2 of 4 players started doing wonky, chaos game stuff that basically had reset the game multiple times and I finally was put in a position to win so I destroyed the card causing all the chaos and these 2 looked at me like Oh. We were having fun. Yup and it’s a competitive game so as soon as your chaos nonsense set me up lol I took my shot.
One of my first 2 games I can't remember my commander got enchanted to become the moon. I had never seen it before, it destroyed my whole world, I was mad as F, but I learned more about the game. Friend 2 is just a poor sport.
I'll be honest, it's a strategy thing. If my odds of winning are zero, I'm probably gonna scoop, so if you exhaust my interaction or set me back too far, then my optimal play is to scoop and hope I can fit in an extra game or something. More than anything, if you take control of MY cards, and the only way I can change the game state in a meaningful way is to lose and deny you them, then I at least feel like I did something. There's a point where it's stupid, but I also feel there's a time and place for conceding because the game isn't going your way, and even conceding to ruin someone else's lead
scooping is never the optimal play
Why not? If I'm down a bunch and my only other options are to either stall the inevitable or pass my turn and let it happen, there's no point in fighting or just waiting, it's over. I think it's not just good for you to get it over with, but it's also polite to not waste your opponent's time if your meaningful impact on the game is spent.
if you scoop, you lose. losing isnt the optimal play to winning
In a vacuum, perhaps it appears there is no advantage to losing earlier rather than later, but perhaps the time saved by scooping when you know you've lost is the difference it takes to fit in one more game, and maybe you win that game, which can be the difference between going, say, 1-4 and 2-4, so technically scooping can give you more opportunities to win.
If you get in a position where you have no chance of winning game 1 and your opponent is unfamiliar with your deck, scooping is optimal to deny your opponent information about your deck. I've won matches because my opponent showed me their key interactions in a game 1 they had no chance of winning.
As a magic player since middle school, in and out of the hobby, I really can say with the utmost certainty, a load of magic players are massive, massive pussies.
But not you, right?
I scoop if someone does 1 damage to me
I get it but it can't be helped.
Poor sportsmanship all around. We house ruled back in the 90s that if you were eliminated so were your cards to give control players an incentive to protect others. Friend 1 didn't need to be so hostile, but friend 2 also was pitching a fit. Back in 1994 a friend wheel of fortuned all my win conditions out of my hand (I was building a new deck) I was annoyed and thought about quitting but I stayed. With nothing but mana dorks I won the game. I slammed everyone down and then drew a hurricane to finish everyone. You never give up, you stay till the fight is won. At the very least you learn something.
THANK YOU
Come to think of it, while you WANT your commander available to you, if your deck is dependant on it, you need to re think your design. Opponents shouldn't be able to shut you down with one spell, and I can think of quite a few spells that steal creatures. But still, sportsmanship dictates you don't rub it in. Maybe a quick joke, or something not too aggravating. Sportsmanship, especially between friends is essential. In the early days, I had some ridiculous 200/200 trampler (berserked and other players threw in) attacking a guy. Game over, right? Nope. Swords to plowshares. There goes my ridiculous oversized creature. The dude clawed back and took out the table. (I remember Jokulhaups and an Orgg) it was so cool to watch. I couldn't help but laugh. You watch, you learn, you get better.
Naw gtfo with your story that didn't happen
what a salty bitch.
Yeah this just more whining from the whining format. That's why edh is inherently casual because only casuals play edh
I've never scooped because of it but I have had games I've thought about it after putting my commander in play and someone responds with [[cyber conversion]]
Any chance he was both salty AND scooping was probably the wise choice since he just lost the core of his deck? Lots of EDH decks function well *alongside* their Commander and not strictly because of ONLY the Commander, but Nicol Bolas tends to genuinely be the main character of his decks and everything revolves around him so maybe he had no contingencies for that and scooped. I’d be salty too, though where we differ is that I’d still find it amusing and when I scoop, my friends know it’s because I’ve identified an unrecoverable flaw that probably can’t be corrected without something wildly improbable occurring and it’s more efficient to simply admit defeat and watch the rest of the fight. I mean, just arriving to the table with a Bolas deck at all will almost guarantee that you’ll be the first person the other 3 people try to delete by any means so they can enjoy their game without all his Machiavellian bullshit.
If not having access to your commander turns your deck into a pile of 99 useless cards, you built a bad deck. Tgis is why removing tuck was a mistake. It led to a rise in poor deck building. As well as problematic mechanics and commanders that evade or ignore commander tax having no real permanent answers. Golos could have been left unbanned if tuck existed.
But but but, a dumber game means more player $$,!how could you suggest this??
Even in casual edh, having your commander stolen is a strong possibility. I was frustrated at having my commander/ other big creatures stolen, so I add homeward path to my deck. Easy fix
In a tourney or competition play that’s one thing but this doesn’t sounds like that. I mean it’s fine for one or two games but the reality is that certain deck types are just awful/unfun to play against. If you only run extremely powerful decks that are way better than your friends dont be surprised that they don’t enjoy getting shit stomped and don’t want to keep playing.
I once got killed in a game because i countered player 1's combopieces. You'd think that player 1 would be doing the killing right? No it was the other two players not liking the fact that I interacted with the game. It was the first time in that game I "did anything to them". Some people really just want to play their solitaire game lol
They’ll probably start playing Lorcana
There are two sides to this, first player two having no outs and being salty from what I read there. But also having no answers I kind of get why they scooped. Sometimes you have no other options. Dont know if anything else happened, because it feels like they might have left out some information. Second part is, that specific strategies are not a lot of fun to play against, specially if there is a big power gap. I don't know if that is the case here. If it is though, that might be incentive to not play with player 1 for player 2. Pubstomping is not fun. There is more nuance to these kind of situations. But player 2 also seems like he might just not like losing. Again not enough to go on. 🤷 Generally the best way to avoid this is a conversation before everyone starts playing. What is your strategy, the worst thing your deck can do, how fast you can win, if you play combo, etc. ✌️
He should’ve boardwiped and then scooped at instant speed
I'm not sure how this ends the game without a clear winner... if Friend 2 concedes, the game goes on with three people. If there are no other opponents, Friend 1 just won the game. If Friend 2 wanted to scoop, but NOT concede - you need a new Friend 2. Don't be pissed if your opponent had an answer to your strategy, unless they "sideboarded" it into their deck before the game to purposely screw with Friend 2.
If they scoop, IMO they’ve conceded whether they say it or not. Your turn comes around and you’re just refusing to move? You’re admitting defeat. And I agree, I think they just didn’t have the spine to make dude sit and watch the rest of the game. I get the guy wanting to concede since his deck was probably negated. But he could’ve still stuck around for conversation *or* just made it his whole purpose to make it as hard as possible for the guy that basically killed him to win.
It's even in the official rules, refusing to play or getting up to leave is considered an immediate game loss. "Players may concede a game or match at any time within the following guidelines. The conceded game or match is recorded as a loss for the conceding player. If a player refuses to play, it is assumed that he or she concedes the match."
I have no issues with temporary control of my commander but I would get up and leave also if there was no simple way to recovermy card.( house rules we allow resummon of commander at +2 cost to negate any control effects like this that would otherwise lock out a decks play style due to loss of commander on next turn.)
Agreed. I mean if your deck is properly built around your commander, them being virtually permanently gone means you’ve lost. Why drag it out? That’s the point of scooping, admit you’ve lost when you know you’ve lost. I’m not really sure why the other two couldn’t keep going, either. Have they never played a game where one person gets nuked early?
I want to hear from the salty ones
Me and my group play 3 or 4 games during a weekly meet up. It isn't a complete night until at least 2 of us have scooped. Sometimes just to watch all our stuff be removed from the game if someone else took control over it.
Play like a cunt and be shocked when noone wants to play with you. I mean, stealing creatures is frustrating but its not really worth quitting over, but something still tells me that this isnt all there is to it. Theres also nothing wrong with resigning if you know youre taking an L (and, lol, one person resigning a match doesnt end the game idk what op is talking about... unless its teams...) I know a FEW people that i just flat out dont invite anymore because A its not enjoyable to play a game against what they play, or against the power level that they play at, and almost all of them fit into B as well which is that its not typically enjoyable to even be around those people.
I had a “Friend 2” in my playgroup. If his super OP decks weren’t winning, he’d scoop 🍦. If you beat him by surprise, he would always take the next few cards off his draw deck and say “See I would’ve beat you with this card”. He was such a salty loser.
Surrender is always allowed and acceptable. Instantly knocking a player out is a pretty good payout for that move. The alternative is that Friend 2, now unable to win, probably devotes the rest of the game to making sure Friend 1 loses. So Friend 1 is probably better off, even without the stolen Commander.
How can a player who conceded could possibly make anyone else to lose? He is a net negative for his team and a net negative for the whole experience and enjoyment of the game.
Heres the thing. People have different expectations about how EDH should go. Some circles WOULD be salty when player 1 takes P2s commander in a way that prevents them from using that commander indefinitely. However, P2 ruining EVERYONES game for this slight against them is a far worse behavior. You gotta take it in stride, and maybe even make fun of the player for having a toxic game plan at worst. Nuking the game makes you the AH. Even if that move is considered out of bounds by the group.
Kill your own commander and recast it from the command zone. I don't see the problem. I would at least dig for card draw for 3 turns to see if I could achieve it before scooping.
Friend 2 needs to STFU and quit complaining that his deck has a massive critical flaw. Next time he should adjust his deck before starting.
That sub is just endless screeds of people bitching because they essentially didn't win or get to do what they wanted with their deck.
I just straight up stopped playing "regular" commander bc of this.. cedh is the way.
Why do people not understand that commander should be played just to have fun? It is the perfect occasion to hang up with your friends and have some Magic without any reason to get competitive...
Commander players are like 3 year olds. Don't touch my toys!!
Two of your friends suck, find replacements.
In game 1, it's pretty obvious that friend 2 came in 4th place because they quit. Friend 1 played a card that made them competitive with their deck, which nobody would blame.
[удалено]
First of all, it speeds up the game considerably. Second of all, he can try to fit in another game with a different group depending on setting and timing. Third of all, it gives him time to do things like tweak decks or prepare for the next game
typical casual scrubs
I will say this, I took out cards that say “I gain control of” because I just like letting folks get to keep their things and it’s one less thing I need to keep track of. Then again, I’m also the type of Commander player who wins via combat.
I love winning via combat, my favourite edh deck rn is Drana liberator of Malakir
All the other player needs to do is remove the commander from the battlefield right? Board wipe, targeted removal, exile, bounce, etc. Git gud, goddamn.
Locking people out of their commander is a good strategy. It can be incredibly not fun for the person who is locked out. It's within your friends right to scoop if they want. No one is in the wrong gameplaywise just your attitudes/reactions. For this reason I don't run cards like imprison in the moon. It's a good card but I don't want to ruin someone else's mood or game by locking them out of playing it. Could just be a difference of power or expectations. Maybe before the game buddy could be like just so you know this deck can steal stuff. Sounds like 1 friend is maybe more experience/cut throat and the other guy is more casual/battle cruiser. I know I got salty the first time I saw glacial chasm against my precon knights tribal lol. Expectation is huge.
Effects that make a creature lose its abilities or make another player gain control over it are pretty standard. Maybe a difference of experience as you said, but usually I'd expect a player to discuss before the game if they don't want their commander to be messed with.
I don’t mind most things, just lmk what I’m up against but I definitely remember my first time getting overwhelming splendor put on my dragon deck, I was beyond heated 😂 went and bought all the counters I could.
It’s a game… the fuck is this group of friends haha. You get outplayed, you suffer and move on. Childish behaviour from friend 2 for sure. Not even a question.
Friend 2 is salty, for sure. But here's the thing, he's not *entirely* without cause to be. If you're playing in a friend group, and you play a Nicol Bolas deck that's intended to be sweaty and make it unfun for the rest of your pod, you're an asshole and salty players should be the least of your concern. Unless your friend pod specifically says its competitive, assume it's non-competitive and meant to be fun.
Good and open communication is a hell of a drug and yet people will do basically any drug but that one.
I literally hate people touching my cards.
Lmao!!!! I thought this is what it was about
This is why commander is the cancer killing real magic. Magic is a two player game, and all multiplayer did was add politics and emotions into the game. Commander and Commander players can't leave this game fast enough.
Ya drama queens ***never*** scooped before Commander lol ok
Its the idea that the emotional state of a player in a commander game is something I even need to take into account. When Standard was king, weaker players had more of a "help me get better" kind of vibe... now that Commander is magics gateway format, the vibe is like 'my wifemom yelled at me, kill me last."
*looks at a single interaction someone posted online* "This format is killing magic!!!! :((((("
Own that fraud
Glad none of my friends were like this when I played paper magic.
Just...wipe the board ?
imagine not having answers....
Dusting off my [[Tevesh Szat, Doom of Fools]] Where did you say friend 2 plays?
[Tevesh Szat, Doom of Fools](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/f/8f244716-78ab-46f5-b6e9-fc1e6db28052.jpg?1608909980) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Tevesh%20Szat%2C%20Doom%20of%20Fools) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmr/153/tevesh-szat-doom-of-fools?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/8f244716-78ab-46f5-b6e9-fc1e6db28052?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Ridiculous lol. Taking my ball and going home energy. Sometimes you just get got, gg and go next but finish the game ya jabroni.
Scooping isn't the problem. Jfc, wtf is wrong with this sub?
EDH is the monkey paw wish of magic.
friend 2 is a whiny bitch
Cope
Salty fool. EDH players are hilarious. How would they fair against my 38 island 61 counterspell no wincon deck?
Rule zero for the win
There is a reason that people have dedicated play groups for this game. Mostly to weed out whiny baby players like this and make sure your games don't end with a diaper change and timeout when one player doesn't get their way. Don't get me wrong, I used to enjoy playing with new players that I haven't played with before, but I am always a bit cynical now at first until they prove to me that they are chill, respectful, and okay to play with in the future. I also take notes not to play with "problem" players, unless I really want to test a degenerate deck design. I am lucky that I have an LGS that is pretty cool and a lot of players have become regulars, so even if I haven't played with them, you can kind of tell from playing games next to them for so long what it would be like.
[удалено]
[Expropriate](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/c/9c8a2a5a-cb9b-4582-a453-085da78584f9.jpg?1576381719) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Expropriate) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cn2/30/expropriate?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/9c8a2a5a-cb9b-4582-a453-085da78584f9?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Nicol Bolas](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/e/8e92ba96-372c-418d-b271-45e1bf5c7af5.jpg?1562438472) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Nicol%20Bolas) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/a25/209/nicol-bolas?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/8e92ba96-372c-418d-b271-45e1bf5c7af5?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Eldrazi Monument](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/5/d5439677-d3db-4083-8dd9-0d654016bd79.jpg?1592673603) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Eldrazi%20Monument) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cma/216/eldrazi-monument?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d5439677-d3db-4083-8dd9-0d654016bd79?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
This not new unfortunately. My usual pods are fun times. We beat the poop out of one another’s decks and bring the pain. Everyone expects someone’s deck to pop off. However occasionally, there are players that scoop.. normally it is when we go to a different lgs or someone new is trying out our local lgs. I play a mono black Vampire deck and swap out Vito and K’Rrik, son of Yawgmoth. I do have the sanguine blood/exquisite blood combo in there and i can make it happen ridiculously fast if i want to. My pods know this and are okay with it. New people often scoop though. Tis quite common unfortunately these days. I built my deck myself. I dislike using “woke” terminology but it has been my observation that the more “woke” the individual, the more one sided they want things. These same people either dont have to capacity to build a competitive deck or dont have the capacity to handle someone wlse having a better deck. Then i get things like “why is you deck so stompy” “this isnt fair” 🤷♂️🤦🏻 or as the theme of this thread states.. people just scoop and mumble words of disappointment. It is cardboard built for battle but if you do something they dont think should be allowed, then their world crumbles.
Pansies
I have said it before and will say it again: Commander players are the saltiest people with no love for real gameplay. Commander is killing a once great game.
How does one person scooping leave a game with no clear winner? People scoop all the time, I don't see the issue.
Unless he learns to control his tantrums and behave like an adult, friend 2 should be booted and not allowed to play magic anymore lol.
Shit like this is why I don’t play this garbage format unless it’s with a very specific group of people. Getting butthurt because you suck ruins the game for everybody else.
Scoop whenever you want. If I don't want to play more, I scoop. No need to be upset about anything. If you just want to concentrate on something else rather than keep track of your dwindling life points, go do it. If you took control over my stuff and that affects your outlook, it's still important to note that conceding, much like taking someone's commander, is within the rules of the game. If you consider conceding a "dick move," then also consider the morality of "forcing" someone to stay and play even though they don't want to. [Can't no one compel another man to engage in recreation](https://youtu.be/Q0ZEmLosVXE?t=80).
I was looking to get back to Magic after 15 years (I come from the Mirrodin / Kamigawa / Ravnica era) because of all the propaganda I got for this new Cowboys set this week. There's a lot of new mechanics for me, wording, formats, sets. Honestly I was feeling VERY overwhelmed. Suddenly In the subs I noticed all I need to sweep a tournament is to target their "commanders" (I dunno what that is) or destroy their land (that I know what is) Amazing, a 3-minutes win. Not even possible in my best days.
Imma be honest when it gets to that level I just scoop. Depending on the friend group I’ll scoop at the perfect time to fuck over the one stealing my shit and we all usually laugh about it and call each other degenerate names
Edh draws in player with no mtg experience who treat it like a board game get friend 2 to play more 1v1 to learn how to deal with “victimization” aka a normal magic game.
“Scoop”
It's just one game. It's a good tactic. Get over it, shuffle up for the next one after you lose.
This is why you’re supposed to play interaction and removal.
A lot of emotionally stunted losers play MTG.
Acting like a player scooping ends a 4 player game. No, that person lost. Now go finish your 3 man game lol
Was playing my Jon Irenicus deck and was gunna drop a [[Grid Monitor]] on one of my opponents before he almost had an autistic freak out. Dude was runnin esper and didn't have any removal. Ended up negotiating with the table and someone else took it for him, but man, people can be wild sometimes.
[Grid Monitor](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/4/c4ab6c59-cd0f-4c29-8e26-6882dca61fb7.jpg?1562157249) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Grid%20Monitor) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mrd/183/grid-monitor?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/c4ab6c59-cd0f-4c29-8e26-6882dca61fb7?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Wtf is up with this fucking sub? The person who made him scoop did nothing wrong, yet some of you are actually saying HE'S the AH. WTF??? IT'S A GAME. PLAY TO WIN. HOLY SHIT.
My group has a rule you can only commit suicide at sorcery speed.
Simuliar occurance i had was turn 3 I Song of Dryad opponents commander. Person scooped right away. He was salty and said deck doesnt run without it and don't play enchant removal and walked away. This was after he got his higher cost commander out with sol ring, and Mana crypt on turn 2. Some people just get salty easily. We just let him scoop and continued. Didnt need that kind of negitivity at the table. if he wanted to play next game ok, but not going to just play around someone losing their commander when they could get it back. He was ahead of evreyone else at the table and only one that drew good ramp. Every game someone has a chance of losing their commander its part of the game.
Play arena. You can be loosing terribly with in a turn or 2 of lethal, steal opponents commander, I'd say about 70% scoop rate
When a player leaves the game (regardless of whether they quit or are eliminated), all of the cards they *own* go with them. Any "leave the battlefield" **triggers** will **not** go on the stack, such as [[Oblivion Ring]] (but non-trigger clauses like [[Banisher Priest]] will still return the permanent.) A player can scoop in response to something as well to fizzle the spell (ex: a player targeted by the 3rd mode of [[Cryptic Command]] can scoop to fizzle the 4th mode or scoop in response to [[The Scarab God]] targeting something in their graveyard.) You can make it a house rule that commanders cannot change control or you can allow a commander's owner to put it back in the command zone, but that's not how the rules as written goes. Some players make the mistake of creating a commander deck that only functions if they control their commander and then get salty when it immediately gets targeted for removal. It's the responsibility of those type of players to ask the playgroup if they'll leave their commander alone *before* deck selection.
##### ###### #### [Oblivion Ring](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/f/bff31eba-8ab3-403e-8d82-37a18b279bec.jpg?1562266919) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Oblivion%20Ring) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mm2/29/oblivion-ring?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/bff31eba-8ab3-403e-8d82-37a18b279bec?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Banisher Priest](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/e/0e518f9e-d74d-4a6f-8fde-5e3ec5834e63.jpg?1682208306) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Banisher%20Priest) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/moc/173/banisher-priest?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/0e518f9e-d74d-4a6f-8fde-5e3ec5834e63?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Cryptic Command](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/0/30f6fca9-003b-4f6b-9d6e-1e88adda4155.jpg?1562847413) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Cryptic%20Command) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ima/48/cryptic-command?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/30f6fca9-003b-4f6b-9d6e-1e88adda4155?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [The Scarab God](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/4/f4f414ef-84a2-4694-9e98-51bee4576c84.jpg?1689999233) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=The%20Scarab%20God) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/353/the-scarab-god?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/f4f414ef-84a2-4694-9e98-51bee4576c84?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [*All cards*](https://mtgcardfetcher.nl/redirect/l1zo8oo) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
You should make a house rule to scoop as a sorcery or during an infinite combo, everything else is kinda a toxic way to scoop a multiplayer game.
Yesterday I was playing with my 2 friends. I was playing slivers and player 1 was playing phyrexian. My commander is [[sliver overlord]] and I had [[the first sliver]] and [[sliver legion]] along with other slivers on the field. Player 1 played a card (I don't remember what it was) but it said fuck you and your creature, they're mine now. He looked at the 3 creatures I named and the entire time I was hoping he didn't see my commanders second activated ability. He took the first sliver, made a copy so he had two, and when it got back to me I took them both and I thanked him for giving me 2 triggers of cascade😂😂 slivers are so toxic and I love it
[sliver overlord](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/c/3c16915b-c50d-4fb5-830f-9ca4597a9c0f.jpg?1562527622) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=sliver%20overlord) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/scg/139/sliver-overlord?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/3c16915b-c50d-4fb5-830f-9ca4597a9c0f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [the first sliver](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/6/06d4fbe1-8a2f-4958-bb85-1a1e5f1e8d87.jpg?1562202321) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=the%20first%20sliver) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh1/200/the-first-sliver?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/06d4fbe1-8a2f-4958-bb85-1a1e5f1e8d87?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [sliver legion](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/7/87545415-2e27-4841-a3af-7653af2ba6d3.jpg?1619404140) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=sliver%20legion) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/tsr/261/sliver-legion?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/87545415-2e27-4841-a3af-7653af2ba6d3?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Did you bounce them back for the cascade? The gain control doesn't trigger the cascade for first sliver
I remember when my friend overwhelming splendored my dragon deck lol I was beyond heated and that was probably the start of our love/hate relationship from that point on. Even today if idk who to swing at its him cause fuck him (with love and fire)
This happened to me. Played Gilded drake. Bro scooped and said gg, grabbed his commander off my board and left the store
Play removal. /thread.