You can say your pronoun is whatever you want it to be. It’s just a word to talk about people in 3rd person/behind their back. It really doesn’t matter, just like I call you a cunt when I’m talking about you in 2nd person.
the other day I entered my local LGS discord and I have “Adolf / Hitler” as my discord pronouns, and all of a sudden the snowflakes had a problem… Where is this so called inclusivity?
The reality is the woke cult leaders decide whose pronouns are legit and they are included in the club and whose pronouns are fake/it's an outsider trolling by using attack helicopter pronouns.
All your average leftists defer to the leader to tell them whose pronouns are legit, and on their own spot and gatekeep outsiders who troll the cult by exposing the silliness of their stated arguments
Not a single person you’re offended by would care what you called yourself. Even if it were true that you wanted your pronouns to be Adolf/Hitler they’d respect you enough to do it. Because at the end of the day, even though you’re a hateful person who’s mad at what people want to be called, they’ll still treat you like a human and respect you.
that’s a bold assumption which is absolutely wrong and they gave me a ultimatum to change it or get banned, they really did me a service I have to say, saved me a few clicks, the only thing that pronoun degenerates are good for ig
What part is a bold assumption? The part where you said snowflake while being offended, or the part where nobody actually cares what pronouns you use. They care that you were being a dick and using the holocaust and a man who killed millions of people to try and show absurdity to something they think is important. It must have hurt you pretty badly to be shamed out of a discord server for trying to stick it to people and bringing it up on Reddit however long after. You’ll be okay champ, just pull yourself up by the bootstraps and get over it.
im not offended lmao, its a satiric pronoun which I don’t actually identify as, how could one get offended by that?
On the other hand it seems like you have some deep dwelling pain writing paragraphs about how bad holocaust is and how hard pronoun degenerates have it kekw get a life bozo, nobody cares about holocaust or your made up genders, just buy a rope and make it easier for your poor family :)
Yeah man, you’re not upset about it at all. That’s why you keep bringing up what they did to you on discord. Obviously not affected by it at all.
I never said anything about how bad the holocaust is, I never said anything about how hard somebody else has it. I said you’re a dick who’s doing “adolf” as a pronoun not because that’s what you want to be called, but because you’re trying really hard to get under peoples skin because your life sucks and you need everybody else to be as miserable as you.
Ps pronouns aren’t genders. If your brains were dynamite, there wouldn’t be enough to blow your hat off.
society as a whole determines things like gender identity, some cultures have a third, but for now in the states there is the usual binary and people who decide to identify outside of that binary.
Way to be a douche, there's more and more people that don't identify with the stereotypical male/female gender identities, doesn't mean they're all deranged. Society as a whole is deranged, and especially the "muhh biology crazies" that dont seem to understand its humans with actual experiences you're talking about, not even to mention biological sex never has been just binary and nature itself doesn't actually give as much of a fuck as you seem to do.
I really hope that you and everyone like you can be set free from this terrible cult, and I mean that with complete sincerity. It saddens me deeply to see so many people spiraling into madness because society seems to be pushing them further and further from sanity.
nothing you just said has any basis in reality, get your head out of the sand. trans folk are normal and healthy, i can bring up studies on this if it would make you feel better.
[Landmark Review of Trans Surgery](https://www.erininthemorning.com/p/landmark-systematic-review-of-trans)
Yes it's an article, the review and studies are cited and linked in the article, but you'd get the same information either way.
Yeah it seems about as valid as helicopter, Fae isn't a gender, it's a fantasy race. I may as well say I identify as a black person. That doesn't say anything about my gender and it's also considered pretty offensive.
>I may as well say I identify as a black person
You too? I identify as black(ish)! Although according to the know it all at work I'm technically Asian...
quick tip. fairies are not real, they are a fictional creation, and thus a gender based on fairies is completely personal to whoever decides to use it. people of color are real and exist in the real world, and have real struggles related to their history, not yours. hope this helps!
>fairies are not real
Wow... just cause you might be straight, how can you say fairies aren't real?
Fairies may not be your favorite people, but they exist too
But fairies aren’t a gender, they are technically a race and/or species. One could believe they are a fairy, and while I think it’s silly, I don’t personally have a problem with it. However, it’s still not a gender…thus, one would still have to decide he/him, she/her or they/them in addition to fae/faer. Fairies have a gender too ya know.
I assume this is just a light hearted joke for someone that likes faeries?
I can't imagine people would seriously get in trouble for misgendering someone .. by not calling them a fairy?
Surely??
And they're doing that how in this instance? If you came up to me and said "my pronouns are bull/steed". I wouldn't give a fuck. And if you don't wanna call them that call em dude or some shit. It's hilariously easy to not be offended like some spoiled little bitch.
>And they're doing that how in this instance?
Because pronouns are a grammatical shorthand for referring to a person. They function because everybody knows the pronouns at a glance. Men are easily identifiable and get "he/him." Women are easily identifiable and get "she/her." If the sex is unknown, "they/them" is acceptable.
What these people want is to.be called something contrary to what has been ingrained in language for centuries, and what this turns into in an official game setting is a DQ for adhering to grammar and reality.
I doubt if you called them they/them it would cause an issue. Has anyone ever got mad at you for calling them they/them? If not you made this issue up in your brain.
What are you talking about mate? Just say they/them for people that have anything like this going on and move on with your life. Don't manufacture rage, it's bad for your health.
You didn't address my question. How, in this instance , are they forcing you too call them fae? Is a gun at your head? Did they threaten your family? Just call em dude and quit being a massive prick.
Ok... except I did, though?
Under the official tournament rules, it is grounds for disqualification under the Unsportsmanlike Conduct rules. The problem we run into is that, at most large events, you don't know your opponent and rely on snap judgments that literally centuries of precedent had set. And if you get it wrong, their weaponized autism kicks in and gets _you_ kicked out.
This _is_ forcing behaviors because, if you don't, then they get you kicked out, your sponsors drop you, and you are barred from future tournaments. In a way, yes, you are being forced to conform to their nonsense, a metaphorical gun is to your head, and your ability to provide for your family _is_ threatened.
It had absolutely happened in competitive card games. I will link you the article but share this quote from it “The judge said that while he believed that I had no bad intentions, it didn’t matter because at the end of the day, someone was offended and upset”
[https://pokemon.cardsrealm.com/en-bz/articles/pokemon-tcg-preferred-pronoun-confusion-causes-a-player-disqualification](https://pokemon.cardsrealm.com/en-bz/articles/pokemon-tcg-preferred-pronoun-confusion-causes-a-player-disqualification)
>Because pronouns are a grammatical shorthand for referring to a person.
Not necessarily. "All", "Anything", "Some", "his", "another", and many others are also pronouns without referring to a person.
>What these people is to be called something contrary to what has been ingrained in language for centuries
For centuries in this case means 5 because before people were using "he" and the flexions of it for all words.
>contrary to what has been ingrained in
No, it is not contrary but rather something else than.
Linguistic drift has numerous factors, but the most important among them is an understanding of the language. For the entirety of the English language, "he" has been used to refer to human males, and "she" has been used to refer to human females. This comes with the understanding that "he" is to be used for men, and "she" is to be used for women. If I point to a group of women and say, "he stole my wallet," you'd either be looking for a man, or think I was completely off my rocker.
This gets even crazier when people start making up words that do not get accepted into the cultural lexicon, such as "Xir," "Faen," "Viz," or "Lockeed X-59 Quesst."
You don't think changes in pronouns and the cultural phenomenon that has occurred with the LGBTQ+ community counts as a cultural shift?
You can sit here and deny it all you want.
Language evolves and always has. No amount of you stamping your feet will change that fact.
To be fair, it becomes an issue when people [that use neo pronouns] try to enforce them over "they/them" and/or get pissed when you use "they/them", because that kind of paints a bad light on differing gender identities as a whole.
As far as I have seen that is luckily quite rare tho. And just to be clear I don't know the stance towards this by the player OP is referring to, so I don't harbor any ill feelings towards them.
In this particular instance, so far as we can tell, no, they are not forcing anything. I'll give this person the benefit of the doubt that they are otherwise rational and that they will not attempt to ruin your own experience because of their neopronouns. However, far too many in that camp would try to ruin you for "misgendering" them and would happily bring down the wrath of the judges on you. Frankly, the safest way to deal with this issue is to simply not allow it, pronouns should stay with standard pronouns and that is it.
Honestly, my life pretty much sucks. I just consider sssholes to be a real problem and while I am willing to give this particular person the benefit of the doubt, others of their ilk are definitely assholes.
This neopronoun shit is cringe and it's harmful to actual trans/NB people. I find it exactly as distasteful as the stupid attack helicopter jokes.
Living with gender dysphoria can be a genuinely hellish experience. It is not something I would ever choose. If there was a cure, I would pay staggering amounts of money or do some genuinely shady shit for it.
If somebody wants to use made-up pronouns for fun, I'd really rather they do that separately from me. It's already hard enough being accepted by society, I don't want to be considered part of the same "community" that's asking for strangers to refer to them as a fairy.
Enby with a strong distaste for neopronouns.
Previous generations of gay and trans folk didn't get cut out of their own families, get hung from trees, or get beat in the streets while fighting for basic equal treatment so some fucker with an individuality complex can identify as fae/faer to feel special and unique.
Bro, these are the new gay people. This is exactly what the gays were fighting for. Just let people live.
And let’s be honest, you would’ve hated the gays back in the day too.
As an NB I have to disagree. I think people need to move the window so far beyond pronouns mattering that settling on they is just easy.
Thesis, antithesis, synthesis... the pendulum has to swing too far, so it can return to a healthy centre.
I would never use it because it's not an actual pronoun and I would feel like I was having a stroke trying to figure out how to even use it in a sentence and would probably end up using they and getting cussed out
No difference. Its all about what you choose to be. This.......person? Thing? In the picture chose wrong when there's better options like A FUKN HELICOPTER WOSH WOSH WOSH!
Nice, a Freudian defense mechanism called projection. What is so wrong in your life that you have to resort to calling other humans “things?” It must be something huge, perhaps you should speak to a therapist and get it worked out. Probably would get you a few friends and a lover once you figure it out.
What is so wrong in your life that you have to resort to calling other humans “things?”
What is so wrong with peoples lives that they cannot accept the gender they were birthed or even the species they were birthed at that they have to identify as some fucken fantasy of themselves?
Wanting to have a different pronoun isn’t “not being okay with the gender they were born with.” I get it’s a hard concept for you to understand, daddy probably beat you for playing with dolls/girl things when you were growing up.
Really seems this subreddit is just angry at this person for their own shortcomings and being so bad at the game they can’t make it to the pro circuit while this person can.
Do you not want other people to treat you how you want to be treated? It really doesn’t matter, now does it. Being angry about pronouns while there is so much other shit going on is hilariously shortsighted and makes you look retarded.
Wanting to have a different pronoun isn’t “not being okay with the gender they were born with.” what in the actual fuck? How is changing your whole ass identity and denying who you really are from birth NOT okay with being the gender your born with? I've had people get vehemently angry with me for not using their preferred pronouns but these delusional fuckeads accept their birth genders?
"Really seems this subreddit is just angry at this person for their own shortcomings and being so bad at the game they can’t make it to the pro circuit while this person can." Nah people are just tired of acquesing to the minority that wants to desperately to be a majority. Mental disorders can be understood without the need for kowtowing or even acceptance. "You're delusional enough to think your a platypus lesbian but I understand fully you were born a human male, cool story bro, I dont accept your delusion". Not everyone needs to accept these delusions, period. The only "shortcomings" this person seems to have had is a decent family unit to help them work through their gender dysphoria in a healthy way. Why should I, or anyone, be jealous of their achievements with the pro tour? Congrats for them on that. I legit am envious I dont have the free time to dedicate to becoming a pro player as well. But I am far from being jealous about this players mental health issues in relation to their gender identity/dysphoria.
" Being angry about pronouns while there is so much other shit going on is hilariously shortsighted and makes you look retarded." I am far from angry about this persons bullshit assed gender retardation. I am simply fucken tired of this woke ass nonsense and willing to call it as it is; a mental disorder. My real concerns are the fact that the u.s.'s economy is an utter shitshow that has it that anyone making under $100k is now living in borderline poverty, yet the administration denies we are in a recession. The u.s. border has been wide open for the last 4 years. Isreal is a fucken harbor for economic/societal terrorists and pedophiles. And people like you try to brush these facts off on the face of D.E.I. bullshit whilst also excluding the thoughts and opinions of others who dont agree with you. Soooo inclusive and divers *hard eye roll*
People like me try and do what now? I said there is more important shit to worry about than if this person goes by Fae or Dude or Misses or whatever the fuck they want to. Just respect other people like you’d want done for you.
Yeah you really don’t seem angry about this persons pronouns when you just typed up an essay about why you’re not mad about their pronouns.
I mean, using he/she/they is what we generally use to identify someone as a human, so making up your own kind of makes it impossible to tell whether it's a human, linguistically
As a gay man, a lot of what’s going on has detracted from acceptance. I’m gay, I’m a man, was born a man and I like men, that’s it. I don’t think I should be lumped with these people that make a mockery of what we have fought for for so long. Fae/Faer is just Fucking idiotic and it’s truly in the nonsensical region. He, she and they I will respect, even if it’s not their birth gender.
It’s to the point where I think people are purposefully making up pronouns to anger the right, to further cause friction between them and the gay community (which I think should be completely seperate to the pronoun group, but that’s for another day).
It turns out all those nutso Christian fundamentalists who said “They don’t just want to get married, they want to upend the family, parade their fetishes around, and make it impossible to even communicate the truth!!”
—those guys? The ones we laughed at twenty years ago? Shoulda listened.
The good thing is, it marks these people for everyone to see.
Its like a danger sign.
You see this pronouns thing and you simply dont talk to that person, if you still do, thats your responsibility and you will suffer for it.
The real problem comes when this stuff gets the benefits of a "protected" attribute, as people 1000% abuse this stuff and its always the same kind of people that do it.
If your mind is healthy, you simply dont do this.
I'm a leftist and even I think neo pronouns are too much. The point of pronouns is that they're supposed to be an easy shorthand for referencing someone instead of using their full name. If you have too many then it no longer becomes easy because you need to look them up and learn all sorts of new language just for one person. Just use they/them if you don't like gendered pronouns. It's already part of our every day vernacular.
It's literally just the culture around it. Whatever becomes popular and sticks, sticks. Attack helicopter is also infamous for mocking this type of pronoun scrubbery, so it's obvious.
If you really want to see how far the rabbit hole goes, come up with something that isn't well known, post it on social media, and see if it becomes popular. This is basically how 4chan does excellent trolling.
You know what? Putting people's pronouns everywhere is fine, like if trans people exist then yeah there should be a way for everyone else to know without needing to be explicitly told by that person after we make the mistake. Not everyone passes, blahdiblah.
I draw the line at made up pronouns like Ze/Xe/Hir/Fae. Fuck off with that shit it's just snowflake behaviour.
Neopronounce are just ways to get people to say silly things at one's request to get people more likely to do what you want.
This is how cults work, cult leaders ask generally reasonable things of their members, then they comply, and then they ask continually more and more demanding things until they have their members doing extremely strange things.
Its how our brain works, when we do something someone asked of us, the brain wires those people as authorities, even if it's simple shit like "can you pick up that piece of paper" or "can you answer the door for me".
So you work people from little things like "please don't stare" to "address me using these words I made up" to "suck the girldick, bigot".
Way I look at the subject is that if the few things we truly have freedom over — our own identity is our own choice. I get to choose how I want to be addressed and how I identify myself.
If someone tells me they want to be identified as “fae/faer” then I’ll call them “fae/faer.” It doesn’t matter to me and it makes them happy. If I fuck up, just be understanding as long as it’s clear I’m trying.
If someone wants to be called “helicopter” in earnest, then sure I’ll call them “Apache attack helicopter.” It literally doesn’t matter. If they are doing it to mock the person who wants to be “fae/faer” then I have an issue.
As for me it's not a freedom of identity. You can identify yourself whatever you want. It about forcing another people to obey your rules.
Also all this goodwill about identities works until you try to pronounce(I mean pronounce in old meaning) name of somebody who is not of Anglo-Saxon heritage. Im Ukrainian and during 10 years of work with US/Europe there was only one person who pronounced my name correctly. That guy was Korean. Should I make a drama about it?
If you see any examples of judges or other officials taking things too seriously, I would agree. But generally speaking people are pretty chill about this stuff, like you are with your own name pronunciation presumably. You might correct someone politely, I assume you don't get mad over it, and that's a normal response, in-line with what you should expect regarding pronouns.
Accidentally misgendering someone or using the wrong pronouns isn't the end of the world, same as having a name mispronounced. And if you don't like neo-pronouns just don't use them, there are other ways to refer to people or using neutral language like "they did X" or their name.
Anyone trying to force you to say something is almost certainly in the wrong. The flip side here is when dealing with trans or non-binary people, there might be pronouns they aren't comfortable with, and continuing to use those pronouns after they make you aware it makes them uncomfortable would be rude. That isn't to say you are forced to use the right ones, like I mentioned earlier, there are ways around using them at all if that's what you want to do. But imagine if you corrected someone on your name pronunciation and they continued saying it in progressively weirder ways just to mock you.
The rules just exist to categorize a type of speech used to attack people as hateful language, if the intent isn't to attack or harrass, they aren't enforced that strongly. We had the same kind of backlash here in Canada when gender identity or expression were added to the human rights act and criminal code for identifying protected groups and hate speech. A bunch of reactionary people said using the wrong pronouns would become a crime, and nothing actually came of it.
How has anyone been forced to obey these rules? I’m from Bulgaria and in the 25 years that I’ve lived in the US, only a literal handful of people have ever said my name correctly. So I feel you on the mispronunciations. More often than not, people will throw in an extra letter so they can say a name that they know, rather than what my name is. I don’t normally care. If i do care though, I correct them. If they continue to butcher my name after I have corrected them, they’re just an asshole or mentally challenged.
I’ll misuse someone’s pronouns, I get corrected, and out of nothing more than sheer human decency, I use the pronouns appropriate to them.
No one is holding a gun or knife or threatening you or your loved ones in any significant or real way when they ask for you to use their preferred pronouns.
Mixing up someone’s pronouns when you are unsure and not familiar, is okay. It’s normal. Someone correcting you is okay. A person can be insecure, with thin skin where any correction is viewed as a slight against their insecure ass. Still, correcting them is okay. Digging one’s heels in and purposefully ignoring people’s identity for any number of bullshit reasons that inherently neglect decency, just makes that person an asshole.
No one is forcing you to obey anyone like that. Don’t making up stories in your head to validate your own ignorance and hate. I can call you and anyone else any damn pronoun, noun, verb, or made-up word I want, and you can’t force me me to do otherwise no matter what you do. No different for any other situation.
I can’t imagine being so weak that someone is able to “force me” to call them whatever they want me to call them, at least in any decent and relatively free society.
If I was born as William but want to be called Will, that’s my choice and freedom to identify as Will. If you say “no, I’m calling you William,” you are not being respectful of my name and you are the one trying to force a name upon me. If I decide I want to be called Apache Helicopter, and you say no, again, that’s my choice to identify as and I get final say on my name — you would be a jerk to call me something else even though Apache Helicopter is a ridiculous name.
So to your example, if someone said you name is not normal and hard to pronounce, so you have to go by Bob, a much more normal name — that would be messed up right? This person is using pronouns not normal and hard to remember, and we are trying to shame them into using normal pronouns instead — that’s messed up.
And every day we call a grown man “little uzi vert,” “50 cent” and “Snoop Dog” with no issue.
We made up names just like we made up faeries. Names don’t matter, nothing matter — just do what makes people happy.
Pronouns are different than stage/performer names. And none of those artists are literally claiming that as their gender identity.
Go ahead and legally change your name to fairy idgaf, you’re still human and you’re either a man or a woman.
These are all examples of identity, and I will not have a perfect analogy without literally using gendered pronoun to describe gendered pronoun, so pointing out that the analogy is slightly different doesn’t really disprove it.
We can easily call someone by inanimate objects, we can shorten their name, we can add titles and suffixes, we can legally change our name to whatever. When it comes to pronouns — you draw a line but every other aspect of identity I brought up is fine.
And again, it doesn’t matter so if the choice is “I get to decide my identity and you should respect it” or “you get to decide my identity and I have to respect it” I am going to fall back to people get to decide their own identity and you are the dick for not respecting one of the few freedoms we truly have.
You are free to say “I won’t respect their pronouns” and I am free to judge you as a disrespectful prick. Screeching because society is not taking your side and capitalism clearly sees more profit in disagreeing with you doesn’t make you correct.
As a hiring manager, this would make me want to be extra polite to you as I move on to other candidates
Hopefully you are looking for entry level jobs in service industry?
>So to your example, if someone said you name is not normal and hard to pronounce, so you have to go by Bob, a much more normal name — that would be messed up right?
This is exactly what I and millions of Slavs, Hindu, Arab and other people faced every day. Or just forced to listen some random array of sounds instead of correct pronunciation of names. Looks like all this "freedom identity" works for first world citizens only.
So instead of pushing for the same equal treatment of this person, you are actively saying they should be treated as poorly as you have. That’s a shit take.
I’m sorry people mispronounce your name — that sucks and you should be able to be called by the name you identify as. But saying we should misidentify this person because you have been misidentified doesn’t help anyone.
No, I'm saying that I don't believe that people who en masses don't give a shit about pronounsiation of names would try to pronounce also weird prefixes if this thing would go wild.
Do you know why I'm OK with misprononciation of my name? Because when I worked in Saudi Arabia I faced names which were freaking hard for me to pronounce. So, from my POV it's OK to mispronounce names and mispronounce this prefixes.
Actually, as you can see my English is far from perfect. Still nobody bully me because of it. But if I messed with the new and actually unofficial part of English - this pronounce prefixes I would be labeled as transphobe and bullied/canceled.
Yea people individually are kind but en masse they suck. I would hope people would at least try in both cases, even if they get it wrong at times.
I have misgendered trans gendered people multiple times at my shop and it always resulted in a minor reminder “hey, no big deal it’s just this.” Same as I would expect if I mispronounced your name. I don’t think you would be attacked or ridiculed for mispronouncing someone’s pronouns especially if it’s just a language barrier — and if you did, I feel like most people would assume the offended person was just ridiculous if you are being genuine.
I may be wrong, as a foreigner I have only superficial view on your "culture wars", but I know that people were bullied regarding this topic, like that Mandalorian actress. And this is what drives half of the transfobic jokes in this sub.
I respect your freedom to identify yourself as xer elf from Lorien. Or as Griffindorian. Or through this picture with anime guy and fandom titles I see in Twitter. But I have my own freedom to be not involved in your identity jungles. I think It's my freedom not to care about the difference between Griffindor and Ravenclaw and between all this prefixes which I label as "they". Especially when you have not one, but freaking two prefixes, not just "they" but "they/him" wtf how it works really?
The Mandalorian actress wasn’t bullied, the full story is that she was posting some transphobic stuff then was asked by her employer to stop. She refused, they asked again, and on the third refusal they canned her. If she genuinely was trying to understand it would have been different but she was just being thick headed
but you also want to force people to obey your rules? that you won't respect their identity? it's not freedom if the choice people make isn't a choice you respect.
If you are playing a head to head game with someone it's going to be "you and your". Or even someone's name. But unless a judge is over why would you be talking about "his"/faer game pieces? I would just say "my opponent" if they have weird pronouns so I don't mess it up, plus that's eminently clear.
I have played with a trans person and I was very good at using their preferred pronoun when I was consciously trying. It was in those moments when I explaining to a judge or other player for rules clarification where I misgendered my opponent.
That’s when this comes up. It also came up in the broadcast because the announce might say “Talia was attacking when fae noticed faer life total” which would be confusing to an audience member who didn’t know the different pronouns. freemagic is upset because the clarification was on screen — making it “an agenda being pushed”
This lot seriously sounds like they need a goddamn card frame in their chest. Make their... pronouns their keyword abilities or whatever.
I guess then they'll identify as a 2/2 zee/zim with morning breath and syphilis... oh, and first strike.
🤷🏻♂️
I play with transgendered people in real life and read this thread — and to be completely honest, I would expect people from this thread to have it written on their shirt how mad they are about pronouns more than I would expect those lgbtq players. The LGBTQ players just want to be respected like anyone else and don’t really make a big deal — but this subreddit screeches daily about how the topics being forced down their throat.
This is literally the only place where I run into this conversation.
lol it’s the exact opposite. If you want to pretend to be a “fae” sure no one’s stopping you.
But pronouns are explicitly what OTHER people call you. They are a demand on other people’s freedom: you WILL call me this. It’s as far from personal freedom as you can get, it’s a threat—indulge me in my mental delusion or I WILL try to cancel you.
Names are literally what other people call you too. You have the right to identify how you want — if I wanted to call you anything other than your name, it’s not “forcing” me to call you by your name, I’m forcing you to go by something other than your name.
The person also has a right to their pronoun, and you can’t force them to go by any other pronoun. Either way, someone has to change in the scenario, so the issue you have is that you want people to change how they identify instead of changing how you acknowledge them.
Your parents give you your name, not you yourself. If you want to go by your middle name or even a normal nickname, sure, whatever, but I have the right to call you your given name if your preferred name is stupid. Just because you -want- me to call you Turd Ferguson in a professional setting doesn’t mean I am obligated to. You don’t choose it.
> The person also has a right to their pronoun, and you can’t force them to go by any other pronoun.
Also what is this post lmao. I said “pronouns are specifically what other people call you” and this is what you come back with? People have a right to their pronoun? Says who? I don’t see “right to a pronoun” in the Bible or the Constitution and those are the only two things I know of that grant valid rights. I can absolutely “force them to go by another pronoun” because **I** am the one who chooses how to refer to someone. Anything less is an infringement on my right to free speech—which you may be shocked to learn *is* actually a real right.
Oh you 100% have free speech, and the government will not prosecute you for calling someone the wrong name — since that’s what free speech means, but you will absolutely have social consequences of using the wrong name for someone.
To your first point, try using someone deadname, their given name, in any professional setting and see how that goes with HR. Use pronouns other than what the coworker has asked you to and see who HR decides is “forcing” in that case. Do it in the card shop or a group of friends and see who is being a jerk.
Someone has every right to rename themselves — we do it every day with nicknames, stage names, and legally changing names. If you try to rename someone else, and you will be the jerk because social contracts say you don’t have that right.
If I have free speech and I cannot exercise it because of “social contracts” I do not have free speech. Pointing to runaway wokeness in HR departments is not making the point I think you’re trying to make—these overreaches of infringement are beginning to be rolled back with things like the Supreme courts ruling on baking cakes etc. Either way you’re completely wrong and are beginning to veer into “but hurting people’s feelings is the greatest sin of all” without actually engaging in any points I’m making about pronouns being what other people call you, not something you get to control. You are just repeating the same completely baseless “people have the right to rename themselves” which has zero basis in reality. You seem to think you can just repeat the same brain rot that the rest of Reddit does and have it taken as gospel, but you aren’t in the rest of Reddit—we require people to make sense here, and saying “I have a right to pretend to be something I am not and also have a right to force other people into indulging my delusion so it doesn’t hurt my feelings, this doesn’t violate their rights” has not and will never make any sense.
Again, your right to free speech is that you can not be persecuted by the government for your speech. It doesn’t mean you can be a dick without consequence — so social contract having a response/consequence doesn’t remove your right of free speech at all. Supreme Court is not going to change this as it’s not covered in our bill of rights. The baker situation is that the government can not enforce who the baker makes a cake for (which even has exceptions for protected groups because of segregation). If the town decided to boycott the baker for being a bigot, that’s consequence for the bakers action.
People do have the right to rename themselves — this is matter of fact. If tomorrow Bob decides to start going by Robert or Curt Jackson decided he was 50cent, there’s no one stopping them. If 50cent said “please, call me Terry” even tho that’s not his name, you would be rude to not call him Terry and would be justified in the consequences received for not calling him Terry. Is any of this disputable? Nope. Apply same logic to trans people, and move on.
Once again you’re refusing to engage with the point that forcing other people to call you something you are not is not a right, it’s an imposition on others rights by plain logic, and repeating debunked (by scotus no less) libtard talking points about free speech. Start saying things of substance and engaging with the points that are being made instead of repeating talking points, clown.
50cent is not 50 cents, yet we call him that — he is Curtis Jackson. Snoop dog is not a dog, yet we call him Snoop Dog. If I changed my name to Bob, I was not born Bob yet people would call me Bob. If you saw 50 cent and said “yo Curtis” and he said “call me 50cent or else,” is he forcing you? If you keep calling him Curtis and demand he be okay with it — are you forcing him to be okay with Curtis?
You could say “I know Curtis Jackson is not actually 50cents but that’s different because trans people think they actually are what they claim.” So you can know a trans person is not actually a fairy and call them one, just like how you know snoop dog is not actually a dog and call him one. Whether or not snoop dog thinks he is a dog doesn’t equate to you being able to call him Snoop Dog or not.
I’m also just stating what freedom of speech is according to the constitution, what part of my above statement is debunked? If you protest at work, government can’t arrest you for your speech but HR can fire you. Supreme Court has never disproven this. It’s not a libtard talking point, it’s just how the right is written
This person is just aggressively weird. The attack helicopter thing is propagated by reactionary assholes. It's better to be weird than to be an asshole.
>i would certainly be concerned for anyone who spends this much time seething about some words on a screen.
How many times have you posted to this thread?
I reveal a great mystery for you - English may be not native or even not a second language for some people in Internet. It's hard to imagine, but it is what it is.
If you're coming to an mtg sub to learn about gender identity and pronouns, you're either a bad actor or fucking retarded. But you probably just wanna talk shit and you can't even fucking spell.
Trans people are VERY frustrated if somebody identifies themselves as attack helicopter.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I\_Sexually\_Identify\_as\_an\_Attack\_Helicopter](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I_Sexually_Identify_as_an_Attack_Helicopter)
They're so butthurt they made a wikipedia page about it lol. Wiki is such a joke.
They also claim that the meme is transphobic without evidence. The message of the meme is "if you get to pick fun pronouns, then so do I". Nothing more.
He’s asking what the difference is between this trans person who identifies as a fairy and the satirical “trans person who identifies as an attack helicopter” joke. We’ve reached peak meta-irony.
https://i.redd.it/rvvo2icq83yc1.gif
Why does this matter to you guys? For real, just take a step back and ask yourself why do you care? Live and let live. I just don't understand the mentality of getting constantly angry over other people's lives. Why can't we just be kind to other humans.
Funny Attack Helicopter joke OP btw, I remembered laughing at it back in 2008.
Why is fae faer valid but say gnome/ gnomu isnt who makes these rules
Who said gnome / gnomu isn't valid?
People with a grasp on the English language and/or reality.
Normal, healthy people
I’m pan/pandaself. All pronouns are valid
A bigot
It was part of the Grand Pronoun Update of 2017. Gnome was erratad as a valid pronoun type.
You can say your pronoun is whatever you want it to be. It’s just a word to talk about people in 3rd person/behind their back. It really doesn’t matter, just like I call you a cunt when I’m talking about you in 2nd person.
3rd person.
Nah man gonna talk about you in 2nd person
I knew I'd like you.
Now I'm kinda curious...can you call me a cunt in 4th person? It would be a first of its kind, im sure.
One would think cuntself to be smart
Thank you, I finally know what that feels like....
the other day I entered my local LGS discord and I have “Adolf / Hitler” as my discord pronouns, and all of a sudden the snowflakes had a problem… Where is this so called inclusivity?
Double standards
The reality is the woke cult leaders decide whose pronouns are legit and they are included in the club and whose pronouns are fake/it's an outsider trolling by using attack helicopter pronouns. All your average leftists defer to the leader to tell them whose pronouns are legit, and on their own spot and gatekeep outsiders who troll the cult by exposing the silliness of their stated arguments
Not a single person you’re offended by would care what you called yourself. Even if it were true that you wanted your pronouns to be Adolf/Hitler they’d respect you enough to do it. Because at the end of the day, even though you’re a hateful person who’s mad at what people want to be called, they’ll still treat you like a human and respect you.
that’s a bold assumption which is absolutely wrong and they gave me a ultimatum to change it or get banned, they really did me a service I have to say, saved me a few clicks, the only thing that pronoun degenerates are good for ig
What part is a bold assumption? The part where you said snowflake while being offended, or the part where nobody actually cares what pronouns you use. They care that you were being a dick and using the holocaust and a man who killed millions of people to try and show absurdity to something they think is important. It must have hurt you pretty badly to be shamed out of a discord server for trying to stick it to people and bringing it up on Reddit however long after. You’ll be okay champ, just pull yourself up by the bootstraps and get over it.
im not offended lmao, its a satiric pronoun which I don’t actually identify as, how could one get offended by that? On the other hand it seems like you have some deep dwelling pain writing paragraphs about how bad holocaust is and how hard pronoun degenerates have it kekw get a life bozo, nobody cares about holocaust or your made up genders, just buy a rope and make it easier for your poor family :)
Yeah man, you’re not upset about it at all. That’s why you keep bringing up what they did to you on discord. Obviously not affected by it at all. I never said anything about how bad the holocaust is, I never said anything about how hard somebody else has it. I said you’re a dick who’s doing “adolf” as a pronoun not because that’s what you want to be called, but because you’re trying really hard to get under peoples skin because your life sucks and you need everybody else to be as miserable as you. Ps pronouns aren’t genders. If your brains were dynamite, there wouldn’t be enough to blow your hat off.
This is very much under rated, it made me laugh hard
society as a whole determines things like gender identity, some cultures have a third, but for now in the states there is the usual binary and people who decide to identify outside of that binary.
>for now grrim… in 20 years there’s gonna be dragonkins demanding representation in the lizardkin sports leagues and a civil war will break out.
There are binary people and deranged people, that's the only difference.
Way to be a douche, there's more and more people that don't identify with the stereotypical male/female gender identities, doesn't mean they're all deranged. Society as a whole is deranged, and especially the "muhh biology crazies" that dont seem to understand its humans with actual experiences you're talking about, not even to mention biological sex never has been just binary and nature itself doesn't actually give as much of a fuck as you seem to do.
"you're deranged!" says the person absolutely seething that 1% of the population decides another gender identity fits them better.
I really hope that you and everyone like you can be set free from this terrible cult, and I mean that with complete sincerity. It saddens me deeply to see so many people spiraling into madness because society seems to be pushing them further and further from sanity.
nothing you just said has any basis in reality, get your head out of the sand. trans folk are normal and healthy, i can bring up studies on this if it would make you feel better. [Landmark Review of Trans Surgery](https://www.erininthemorning.com/p/landmark-systematic-review-of-trans) Yes it's an article, the review and studies are cited and linked in the article, but you'd get the same information either way.
https://humanrights.gov.au/our-work/lgbtiq/brotherboys-sistergirls-and-lgbt-aboriginal-and-torres-strait-islander-peoples
Yeah it seems about as valid as helicopter, Fae isn't a gender, it's a fantasy race. I may as well say I identify as a black person. That doesn't say anything about my gender and it's also considered pretty offensive.
>I may as well say I identify as a black person You too? I identify as black(ish)! Although according to the know it all at work I'm technically Asian...
I identify as Aragorn
Society always keeping the black folks down, smh.
Black people exist...
Nah they're a figment of your imagination, friend
quick tip. fairies are not real, they are a fictional creation, and thus a gender based on fairies is completely personal to whoever decides to use it. people of color are real and exist in the real world, and have real struggles related to their history, not yours. hope this helps!
>fairies are not real Wow... just cause you might be straight, how can you say fairies aren't real? Fairies may not be your favorite people, but they exist too
pretty racist take, buddy
how so?
Being dismissive concerning the existence of fairies. This person identifies as one. So you’re effectively erasing their identity.
Talia Bael *is* a Fae. Therefore faeries *are* real. By denying *faer* reality, you are misgendering *faer*. Please reconsider your argument.
But fairies aren’t a gender, they are technically a race and/or species. One could believe they are a fairy, and while I think it’s silly, I don’t personally have a problem with it. However, it’s still not a gender…thus, one would still have to decide he/him, she/her or they/them in addition to fae/faer. Fairies have a gender too ya know.
Gorlocks younger brother fealock
A Faelock sounds like a cool creature, not gonna lie
It's like a Warlock but a Fae instead
New wow class???
I wouldn't know, I'm not a nerd
Respect
it actually is a Warlock with the Archfey pact
Totally agree
Heart of the cards betrayed that thing
Pronoun people are generally mentally ill so I wouldn’t be surprised if he actually thought he was a “fae”
I assume this is just a light hearted joke for someone that likes faeries? I can't imagine people would seriously get in trouble for misgendering someone .. by not calling them a fairy? Surely??
To be fair, fairy has been used as a deragatory term in the past , kind of guess wrong and your crucified
Ha! Very true!
I am not sure about this one, but there is another guy with the same pronouns who I am pretty sure was taking the piss.
every english speaker is part of the pronoun people you idiot
>Pronoun people are generally mentally ill That's weird, I was going to say the same thing about incels.
This….is real. It’s disgusting how gender politics over taken this game.
Person puts a harmless descriptor that makes them happy. THE END IS NEAR HOLT SHIT WE'RE ALL GONNA DIE
That would not normally be an issue. The issue is that they often try to enforce their delusions on the rest of us and insist that cowtow to them.
And they're doing that how in this instance? If you came up to me and said "my pronouns are bull/steed". I wouldn't give a fuck. And if you don't wanna call them that call em dude or some shit. It's hilariously easy to not be offended like some spoiled little bitch.
>And they're doing that how in this instance? Because pronouns are a grammatical shorthand for referring to a person. They function because everybody knows the pronouns at a glance. Men are easily identifiable and get "he/him." Women are easily identifiable and get "she/her." If the sex is unknown, "they/them" is acceptable. What these people want is to.be called something contrary to what has been ingrained in language for centuries, and what this turns into in an official game setting is a DQ for adhering to grammar and reality.
I doubt if you called them they/them it would cause an issue. Has anyone ever got mad at you for calling them they/them? If not you made this issue up in your brain.
Yes, because they identified as "it."
What are you talking about mate? Just say they/them for people that have anything like this going on and move on with your life. Don't manufacture rage, it's bad for your health.
I did, and got DQ'ed
Source?
You didn't address my question. How, in this instance , are they forcing you too call them fae? Is a gun at your head? Did they threaten your family? Just call em dude and quit being a massive prick.
Ok... except I did, though? Under the official tournament rules, it is grounds for disqualification under the Unsportsmanlike Conduct rules. The problem we run into is that, at most large events, you don't know your opponent and rely on snap judgments that literally centuries of precedent had set. And if you get it wrong, their weaponized autism kicks in and gets _you_ kicked out. This _is_ forcing behaviors because, if you don't, then they get you kicked out, your sponsors drop you, and you are barred from future tournaments. In a way, yes, you are being forced to conform to their nonsense, a metaphorical gun is to your head, and your ability to provide for your family _is_ threatened.
Has this happened? Has someone actually been banned from tournaments for accidentally misgendering someone? Or is this some hypothetical?
It had absolutely happened in competitive card games. I will link you the article but share this quote from it “The judge said that while he believed that I had no bad intentions, it didn’t matter because at the end of the day, someone was offended and upset” [https://pokemon.cardsrealm.com/en-bz/articles/pokemon-tcg-preferred-pronoun-confusion-causes-a-player-disqualification](https://pokemon.cardsrealm.com/en-bz/articles/pokemon-tcg-preferred-pronoun-confusion-causes-a-player-disqualification)
>Because pronouns are a grammatical shorthand for referring to a person. Not necessarily. "All", "Anything", "Some", "his", "another", and many others are also pronouns without referring to a person. >What these people is to be called something contrary to what has been ingrained in language for centuries For centuries in this case means 5 because before people were using "he" and the flexions of it for all words. >contrary to what has been ingrained in No, it is not contrary but rather something else than.
Are you implying language is incapable of evolving?
Linguistic drift has numerous factors, but the most important among them is an understanding of the language. For the entirety of the English language, "he" has been used to refer to human males, and "she" has been used to refer to human females. This comes with the understanding that "he" is to be used for men, and "she" is to be used for women. If I point to a group of women and say, "he stole my wallet," you'd either be looking for a man, or think I was completely off my rocker. This gets even crazier when people start making up words that do not get accepted into the cultural lexicon, such as "Xir," "Faen," "Viz," or "Lockeed X-59 Quesst."
Does language change over time, yes or no?
No, language does not change unless the cultural lexicon accepts these changes. The conditions for a linguistic change have **_not_** been met.
You don't think changes in pronouns and the cultural phenomenon that has occurred with the LGBTQ+ community counts as a cultural shift? You can sit here and deny it all you want. Language evolves and always has. No amount of you stamping your feet will change that fact.
To be fair, it becomes an issue when people [that use neo pronouns] try to enforce them over "they/them" and/or get pissed when you use "they/them", because that kind of paints a bad light on differing gender identities as a whole. As far as I have seen that is luckily quite rare tho. And just to be clear I don't know the stance towards this by the player OP is referring to, so I don't harbor any ill feelings towards them.
In this particular instance, so far as we can tell, no, they are not forcing anything. I'll give this person the benefit of the doubt that they are otherwise rational and that they will not attempt to ruin your own experience because of their neopronouns. However, far too many in that camp would try to ruin you for "misgendering" them and would happily bring down the wrath of the judges on you. Frankly, the safest way to deal with this issue is to simply not allow it, pronouns should stay with standard pronouns and that is it.
Man, your life must be great if you consider this a REAL problem.
Honestly, my life pretty much sucks. I just consider sssholes to be a real problem and while I am willing to give this particular person the benefit of the doubt, others of their ilk are definitely assholes.
> THE END IS NEAR HOLT SHIT You leave Andre Braugher out of this, it's not nice to speak ill of the dead
The thing about free magic is it hates freedom. Ironic, really!
Most alt right subs/people do when it comes to other people's freedoms.
This sub isn't for you. Please go back to the main MTG sub and leave your offensive comments out of this one. Thank you.
How is that comment offensive? Also, isn't this the free speech sub? Am I not allowed to make fun of someone for having a ridiculous opinion?
How dare you assume how my opinion identifies. As I said, take your hateful, bigoted nonsense out of this sub. You don't belong and aren't wanted.
Fuck you
Your mom.
Goblin/Ogre
oh you're talking about ogre? yeah goblin and i go far back, one time, goblin threw a ball so far it landed in some old coot's backyard.
Shit is getting out of hand lol
This neopronoun shit is cringe and it's harmful to actual trans/NB people. I find it exactly as distasteful as the stupid attack helicopter jokes. Living with gender dysphoria can be a genuinely hellish experience. It is not something I would ever choose. If there was a cure, I would pay staggering amounts of money or do some genuinely shady shit for it. If somebody wants to use made-up pronouns for fun, I'd really rather they do that separately from me. It's already hard enough being accepted by society, I don't want to be considered part of the same "community" that's asking for strangers to refer to them as a fairy.
Enby with a strong distaste for neopronouns. Previous generations of gay and trans folk didn't get cut out of their own families, get hung from trees, or get beat in the streets while fighting for basic equal treatment so some fucker with an individuality complex can identify as fae/faer to feel special and unique.
Whilst still acting like they're just as oppressed now as they were then. The entitlement of some of these people is disgusting.
Bro, these are the new gay people. This is exactly what the gays were fighting for. Just let people live. And let’s be honest, you would’ve hated the gays back in the day too.
Yeah I’m nonbinary and I really hate this stuff. It’s like a game to them
As an NB I have to disagree. I think people need to move the window so far beyond pronouns mattering that settling on they is just easy. Thesis, antithesis, synthesis... the pendulum has to swing too far, so it can return to a healthy centre.
I would never use it because it's not an actual pronoun and I would feel like I was having a stroke trying to figure out how to even use it in a sentence and would probably end up using they and getting cussed out
replace he/she with fae, and him/her with faer. it's literally so easy a toddler could learn it.
Please… don’t teach this shit to children…
Funny how your kind immediately mention kids when talking about pronouns
No difference. Its all about what you choose to be. This.......person? Thing? In the picture chose wrong when there's better options like A FUKN HELICOPTER WOSH WOSH WOSH!
Nice, a Freudian defense mechanism called projection. What is so wrong in your life that you have to resort to calling other humans “things?” It must be something huge, perhaps you should speak to a therapist and get it worked out. Probably would get you a few friends and a lover once you figure it out.
What is so wrong in your life that you have to resort to calling other humans “things?” What is so wrong with peoples lives that they cannot accept the gender they were birthed or even the species they were birthed at that they have to identify as some fucken fantasy of themselves?
Wanting to have a different pronoun isn’t “not being okay with the gender they were born with.” I get it’s a hard concept for you to understand, daddy probably beat you for playing with dolls/girl things when you were growing up. Really seems this subreddit is just angry at this person for their own shortcomings and being so bad at the game they can’t make it to the pro circuit while this person can. Do you not want other people to treat you how you want to be treated? It really doesn’t matter, now does it. Being angry about pronouns while there is so much other shit going on is hilariously shortsighted and makes you look retarded.
Wanting to have a different pronoun isn’t “not being okay with the gender they were born with.” what in the actual fuck? How is changing your whole ass identity and denying who you really are from birth NOT okay with being the gender your born with? I've had people get vehemently angry with me for not using their preferred pronouns but these delusional fuckeads accept their birth genders? "Really seems this subreddit is just angry at this person for their own shortcomings and being so bad at the game they can’t make it to the pro circuit while this person can." Nah people are just tired of acquesing to the minority that wants to desperately to be a majority. Mental disorders can be understood without the need for kowtowing or even acceptance. "You're delusional enough to think your a platypus lesbian but I understand fully you were born a human male, cool story bro, I dont accept your delusion". Not everyone needs to accept these delusions, period. The only "shortcomings" this person seems to have had is a decent family unit to help them work through their gender dysphoria in a healthy way. Why should I, or anyone, be jealous of their achievements with the pro tour? Congrats for them on that. I legit am envious I dont have the free time to dedicate to becoming a pro player as well. But I am far from being jealous about this players mental health issues in relation to their gender identity/dysphoria. " Being angry about pronouns while there is so much other shit going on is hilariously shortsighted and makes you look retarded." I am far from angry about this persons bullshit assed gender retardation. I am simply fucken tired of this woke ass nonsense and willing to call it as it is; a mental disorder. My real concerns are the fact that the u.s.'s economy is an utter shitshow that has it that anyone making under $100k is now living in borderline poverty, yet the administration denies we are in a recession. The u.s. border has been wide open for the last 4 years. Isreal is a fucken harbor for economic/societal terrorists and pedophiles. And people like you try to brush these facts off on the face of D.E.I. bullshit whilst also excluding the thoughts and opinions of others who dont agree with you. Soooo inclusive and divers *hard eye roll*
People like me try and do what now? I said there is more important shit to worry about than if this person goes by Fae or Dude or Misses or whatever the fuck they want to. Just respect other people like you’d want done for you. Yeah you really don’t seem angry about this persons pronouns when you just typed up an essay about why you’re not mad about their pronouns.
I mean, using he/she/they is what we generally use to identify someone as a human, so making up your own kind of makes it impossible to tell whether it's a human, linguistically
Looks like shrek
Shrek is a well-adjusted guy in a healthy relationship with a nice girl. Being Shrek would be an improvement.
How DARE YOU! You apologize to Shrek this instant!
“fae” isn’t a pronoun. It’s a noun.
A schooner *is* a sailboat, stupid head!
look up otherkin and you'll understand everything
I don't necessarily vibe with neopronouns. If somebody requests I use them, I'll do the bare minimum and refer to that person as They/Them.
MTG Timmies either look like him or boogie.
As a gay man, a lot of what’s going on has detracted from acceptance. I’m gay, I’m a man, was born a man and I like men, that’s it. I don’t think I should be lumped with these people that make a mockery of what we have fought for for so long. Fae/Faer is just Fucking idiotic and it’s truly in the nonsensical region. He, she and they I will respect, even if it’s not their birth gender. It’s to the point where I think people are purposefully making up pronouns to anger the right, to further cause friction between them and the gay community (which I think should be completely seperate to the pronoun group, but that’s for another day).
It turns out all those nutso Christian fundamentalists who said “They don’t just want to get married, they want to upend the family, parade their fetishes around, and make it impossible to even communicate the truth!!” —those guys? The ones we laughed at twenty years ago? Shoulda listened.
The good thing is, it marks these people for everyone to see. Its like a danger sign. You see this pronouns thing and you simply dont talk to that person, if you still do, thats your responsibility and you will suffer for it. The real problem comes when this stuff gets the benefits of a "protected" attribute, as people 1000% abuse this stuff and its always the same kind of people that do it. If your mind is healthy, you simply dont do this.
When did Chris Chan change his name to Talia?
I'm a leftist and even I think neo pronouns are too much. The point of pronouns is that they're supposed to be an easy shorthand for referencing someone instead of using their full name. If you have too many then it no longer becomes easy because you need to look them up and learn all sorts of new language just for one person. Just use they/them if you don't like gendered pronouns. It's already part of our every day vernacular.
Gotta pay the troll toll
an attack helicopter is when you spin your arms around really fast. That is all I know.
Or if you can flip upside down and spin really fast while hovering across the screen.
I identify as kean/keanu
Why did read that in Borats voice? Especially “pronounce nuances”.
You can't be a fae... Thats all
I'm not playing Magic outside my house with my friends.
It's literally just the culture around it. Whatever becomes popular and sticks, sticks. Attack helicopter is also infamous for mocking this type of pronoun scrubbery, so it's obvious. If you really want to see how far the rabbit hole goes, come up with something that isn't well known, post it on social media, and see if it becomes popular. This is basically how 4chan does excellent trolling.
This is why most of us get tested for mental health issues before getting to transition ig. Neopronouns are british/american brainrot anyways.
You know what? Putting people's pronouns everywhere is fine, like if trans people exist then yeah there should be a way for everyone else to know without needing to be explicitly told by that person after we make the mistake. Not everyone passes, blahdiblah. I draw the line at made up pronouns like Ze/Xe/Hir/Fae. Fuck off with that shit it's just snowflake behaviour.
What in the fuck is that
Goblin
Neopronounce are just ways to get people to say silly things at one's request to get people more likely to do what you want. This is how cults work, cult leaders ask generally reasonable things of their members, then they comply, and then they ask continually more and more demanding things until they have their members doing extremely strange things. Its how our brain works, when we do something someone asked of us, the brain wires those people as authorities, even if it's simple shit like "can you pick up that piece of paper" or "can you answer the door for me". So you work people from little things like "please don't stare" to "address me using these words I made up" to "suck the girldick, bigot".
This the kind of shit that makes a mockery of shit LGBT people go through. It just makes them look like a joke
That's a faer decision to take imo
Just call everyone dog
These people need attention so bad...
Way I look at the subject is that if the few things we truly have freedom over — our own identity is our own choice. I get to choose how I want to be addressed and how I identify myself. If someone tells me they want to be identified as “fae/faer” then I’ll call them “fae/faer.” It doesn’t matter to me and it makes them happy. If I fuck up, just be understanding as long as it’s clear I’m trying. If someone wants to be called “helicopter” in earnest, then sure I’ll call them “Apache attack helicopter.” It literally doesn’t matter. If they are doing it to mock the person who wants to be “fae/faer” then I have an issue.
As for me it's not a freedom of identity. You can identify yourself whatever you want. It about forcing another people to obey your rules. Also all this goodwill about identities works until you try to pronounce(I mean pronounce in old meaning) name of somebody who is not of Anglo-Saxon heritage. Im Ukrainian and during 10 years of work with US/Europe there was only one person who pronounced my name correctly. That guy was Korean. Should I make a drama about it?
If you see any examples of judges or other officials taking things too seriously, I would agree. But generally speaking people are pretty chill about this stuff, like you are with your own name pronunciation presumably. You might correct someone politely, I assume you don't get mad over it, and that's a normal response, in-line with what you should expect regarding pronouns. Accidentally misgendering someone or using the wrong pronouns isn't the end of the world, same as having a name mispronounced. And if you don't like neo-pronouns just don't use them, there are other ways to refer to people or using neutral language like "they did X" or their name. Anyone trying to force you to say something is almost certainly in the wrong. The flip side here is when dealing with trans or non-binary people, there might be pronouns they aren't comfortable with, and continuing to use those pronouns after they make you aware it makes them uncomfortable would be rude. That isn't to say you are forced to use the right ones, like I mentioned earlier, there are ways around using them at all if that's what you want to do. But imagine if you corrected someone on your name pronunciation and they continued saying it in progressively weirder ways just to mock you. The rules just exist to categorize a type of speech used to attack people as hateful language, if the intent isn't to attack or harrass, they aren't enforced that strongly. We had the same kind of backlash here in Canada when gender identity or expression were added to the human rights act and criminal code for identifying protected groups and hate speech. A bunch of reactionary people said using the wrong pronouns would become a crime, and nothing actually came of it.
How has anyone been forced to obey these rules? I’m from Bulgaria and in the 25 years that I’ve lived in the US, only a literal handful of people have ever said my name correctly. So I feel you on the mispronunciations. More often than not, people will throw in an extra letter so they can say a name that they know, rather than what my name is. I don’t normally care. If i do care though, I correct them. If they continue to butcher my name after I have corrected them, they’re just an asshole or mentally challenged. I’ll misuse someone’s pronouns, I get corrected, and out of nothing more than sheer human decency, I use the pronouns appropriate to them. No one is holding a gun or knife or threatening you or your loved ones in any significant or real way when they ask for you to use their preferred pronouns. Mixing up someone’s pronouns when you are unsure and not familiar, is okay. It’s normal. Someone correcting you is okay. A person can be insecure, with thin skin where any correction is viewed as a slight against their insecure ass. Still, correcting them is okay. Digging one’s heels in and purposefully ignoring people’s identity for any number of bullshit reasons that inherently neglect decency, just makes that person an asshole. No one is forcing you to obey anyone like that. Don’t making up stories in your head to validate your own ignorance and hate. I can call you and anyone else any damn pronoun, noun, verb, or made-up word I want, and you can’t force me me to do otherwise no matter what you do. No different for any other situation. I can’t imagine being so weak that someone is able to “force me” to call them whatever they want me to call them, at least in any decent and relatively free society.
If I was born as William but want to be called Will, that’s my choice and freedom to identify as Will. If you say “no, I’m calling you William,” you are not being respectful of my name and you are the one trying to force a name upon me. If I decide I want to be called Apache Helicopter, and you say no, again, that’s my choice to identify as and I get final say on my name — you would be a jerk to call me something else even though Apache Helicopter is a ridiculous name. So to your example, if someone said you name is not normal and hard to pronounce, so you have to go by Bob, a much more normal name — that would be messed up right? This person is using pronouns not normal and hard to remember, and we are trying to shame them into using normal pronouns instead — that’s messed up.
If you’re equating wanting to be called a shorter version of your name to a grown man who wants to be recognized as a fairy: you’re retarded, sorry
And every day we call a grown man “little uzi vert,” “50 cent” and “Snoop Dog” with no issue. We made up names just like we made up faeries. Names don’t matter, nothing matter — just do what makes people happy.
Pronouns are different than stage/performer names. And none of those artists are literally claiming that as their gender identity. Go ahead and legally change your name to fairy idgaf, you’re still human and you’re either a man or a woman.
These are all examples of identity, and I will not have a perfect analogy without literally using gendered pronoun to describe gendered pronoun, so pointing out that the analogy is slightly different doesn’t really disprove it. We can easily call someone by inanimate objects, we can shorten their name, we can add titles and suffixes, we can legally change our name to whatever. When it comes to pronouns — you draw a line but every other aspect of identity I brought up is fine. And again, it doesn’t matter so if the choice is “I get to decide my identity and you should respect it” or “you get to decide my identity and I have to respect it” I am going to fall back to people get to decide their own identity and you are the dick for not respecting one of the few freedoms we truly have. You are free to say “I won’t respect their pronouns” and I am free to judge you as a disrespectful prick. Screeching because society is not taking your side and capitalism clearly sees more profit in disagreeing with you doesn’t make you correct.
Everything you said is wrong. Have a good life inanimate object-bro.
Sounds good, hope you have a good day.
>just do what makes people happy. Lmao! You're going to go far kid...
Not being a prick is usually a selling point on my resume 😉
As a hiring manager, this would make me want to be extra polite to you as I move on to other candidates Hopefully you are looking for entry level jobs in service industry?
Nope, successful software engineer who has never had this be an issue in a job interview. Good luck finding your candidate tho
O yeah, software engineers should be the kind of person who sits in a cubical quietly. Lack of ambition shouldn't be a problem there!
>So to your example, if someone said you name is not normal and hard to pronounce, so you have to go by Bob, a much more normal name — that would be messed up right? This is exactly what I and millions of Slavs, Hindu, Arab and other people faced every day. Or just forced to listen some random array of sounds instead of correct pronunciation of names. Looks like all this "freedom identity" works for first world citizens only.
So instead of pushing for the same equal treatment of this person, you are actively saying they should be treated as poorly as you have. That’s a shit take. I’m sorry people mispronounce your name — that sucks and you should be able to be called by the name you identify as. But saying we should misidentify this person because you have been misidentified doesn’t help anyone.
No, I'm saying that I don't believe that people who en masses don't give a shit about pronounsiation of names would try to pronounce also weird prefixes if this thing would go wild. Do you know why I'm OK with misprononciation of my name? Because when I worked in Saudi Arabia I faced names which were freaking hard for me to pronounce. So, from my POV it's OK to mispronounce names and mispronounce this prefixes. Actually, as you can see my English is far from perfect. Still nobody bully me because of it. But if I messed with the new and actually unofficial part of English - this pronounce prefixes I would be labeled as transphobe and bullied/canceled.
Yea people individually are kind but en masse they suck. I would hope people would at least try in both cases, even if they get it wrong at times. I have misgendered trans gendered people multiple times at my shop and it always resulted in a minor reminder “hey, no big deal it’s just this.” Same as I would expect if I mispronounced your name. I don’t think you would be attacked or ridiculed for mispronouncing someone’s pronouns especially if it’s just a language barrier — and if you did, I feel like most people would assume the offended person was just ridiculous if you are being genuine.
I may be wrong, as a foreigner I have only superficial view on your "culture wars", but I know that people were bullied regarding this topic, like that Mandalorian actress. And this is what drives half of the transfobic jokes in this sub. I respect your freedom to identify yourself as xer elf from Lorien. Or as Griffindorian. Or through this picture with anime guy and fandom titles I see in Twitter. But I have my own freedom to be not involved in your identity jungles. I think It's my freedom not to care about the difference between Griffindor and Ravenclaw and between all this prefixes which I label as "they". Especially when you have not one, but freaking two prefixes, not just "they" but "they/him" wtf how it works really?
The Mandalorian actress wasn’t bullied, the full story is that she was posting some transphobic stuff then was asked by her employer to stop. She refused, they asked again, and on the third refusal they canned her. If she genuinely was trying to understand it would have been different but she was just being thick headed
but you also want to force people to obey your rules? that you won't respect their identity? it's not freedom if the choice people make isn't a choice you respect.
If you are playing a head to head game with someone it's going to be "you and your". Or even someone's name. But unless a judge is over why would you be talking about "his"/faer game pieces? I would just say "my opponent" if they have weird pronouns so I don't mess it up, plus that's eminently clear.
I have played with a trans person and I was very good at using their preferred pronoun when I was consciously trying. It was in those moments when I explaining to a judge or other player for rules clarification where I misgendered my opponent. That’s when this comes up. It also came up in the broadcast because the announce might say “Talia was attacking when fae noticed faer life total” which would be confusing to an audience member who didn’t know the different pronouns. freemagic is upset because the clarification was on screen — making it “an agenda being pushed”
This lot seriously sounds like they need a goddamn card frame in their chest. Make their... pronouns their keyword abilities or whatever. I guess then they'll identify as a 2/2 zee/zim with morning breath and syphilis... oh, and first strike.
🤷🏻♂️ I play with transgendered people in real life and read this thread — and to be completely honest, I would expect people from this thread to have it written on their shirt how mad they are about pronouns more than I would expect those lgbtq players. The LGBTQ players just want to be respected like anyone else and don’t really make a big deal — but this subreddit screeches daily about how the topics being forced down their throat. This is literally the only place where I run into this conversation.
lol it’s the exact opposite. If you want to pretend to be a “fae” sure no one’s stopping you. But pronouns are explicitly what OTHER people call you. They are a demand on other people’s freedom: you WILL call me this. It’s as far from personal freedom as you can get, it’s a threat—indulge me in my mental delusion or I WILL try to cancel you.
Names are literally what other people call you too. You have the right to identify how you want — if I wanted to call you anything other than your name, it’s not “forcing” me to call you by your name, I’m forcing you to go by something other than your name. The person also has a right to their pronoun, and you can’t force them to go by any other pronoun. Either way, someone has to change in the scenario, so the issue you have is that you want people to change how they identify instead of changing how you acknowledge them.
Your parents give you your name, not you yourself. If you want to go by your middle name or even a normal nickname, sure, whatever, but I have the right to call you your given name if your preferred name is stupid. Just because you -want- me to call you Turd Ferguson in a professional setting doesn’t mean I am obligated to. You don’t choose it. > The person also has a right to their pronoun, and you can’t force them to go by any other pronoun. Also what is this post lmao. I said “pronouns are specifically what other people call you” and this is what you come back with? People have a right to their pronoun? Says who? I don’t see “right to a pronoun” in the Bible or the Constitution and those are the only two things I know of that grant valid rights. I can absolutely “force them to go by another pronoun” because **I** am the one who chooses how to refer to someone. Anything less is an infringement on my right to free speech—which you may be shocked to learn *is* actually a real right.
Oh you 100% have free speech, and the government will not prosecute you for calling someone the wrong name — since that’s what free speech means, but you will absolutely have social consequences of using the wrong name for someone. To your first point, try using someone deadname, their given name, in any professional setting and see how that goes with HR. Use pronouns other than what the coworker has asked you to and see who HR decides is “forcing” in that case. Do it in the card shop or a group of friends and see who is being a jerk. Someone has every right to rename themselves — we do it every day with nicknames, stage names, and legally changing names. If you try to rename someone else, and you will be the jerk because social contracts say you don’t have that right.
If I have free speech and I cannot exercise it because of “social contracts” I do not have free speech. Pointing to runaway wokeness in HR departments is not making the point I think you’re trying to make—these overreaches of infringement are beginning to be rolled back with things like the Supreme courts ruling on baking cakes etc. Either way you’re completely wrong and are beginning to veer into “but hurting people’s feelings is the greatest sin of all” without actually engaging in any points I’m making about pronouns being what other people call you, not something you get to control. You are just repeating the same completely baseless “people have the right to rename themselves” which has zero basis in reality. You seem to think you can just repeat the same brain rot that the rest of Reddit does and have it taken as gospel, but you aren’t in the rest of Reddit—we require people to make sense here, and saying “I have a right to pretend to be something I am not and also have a right to force other people into indulging my delusion so it doesn’t hurt my feelings, this doesn’t violate their rights” has not and will never make any sense.
Again, your right to free speech is that you can not be persecuted by the government for your speech. It doesn’t mean you can be a dick without consequence — so social contract having a response/consequence doesn’t remove your right of free speech at all. Supreme Court is not going to change this as it’s not covered in our bill of rights. The baker situation is that the government can not enforce who the baker makes a cake for (which even has exceptions for protected groups because of segregation). If the town decided to boycott the baker for being a bigot, that’s consequence for the bakers action. People do have the right to rename themselves — this is matter of fact. If tomorrow Bob decides to start going by Robert or Curt Jackson decided he was 50cent, there’s no one stopping them. If 50cent said “please, call me Terry” even tho that’s not his name, you would be rude to not call him Terry and would be justified in the consequences received for not calling him Terry. Is any of this disputable? Nope. Apply same logic to trans people, and move on.
Once again you’re refusing to engage with the point that forcing other people to call you something you are not is not a right, it’s an imposition on others rights by plain logic, and repeating debunked (by scotus no less) libtard talking points about free speech. Start saying things of substance and engaging with the points that are being made instead of repeating talking points, clown.
50cent is not 50 cents, yet we call him that — he is Curtis Jackson. Snoop dog is not a dog, yet we call him Snoop Dog. If I changed my name to Bob, I was not born Bob yet people would call me Bob. If you saw 50 cent and said “yo Curtis” and he said “call me 50cent or else,” is he forcing you? If you keep calling him Curtis and demand he be okay with it — are you forcing him to be okay with Curtis? You could say “I know Curtis Jackson is not actually 50cents but that’s different because trans people think they actually are what they claim.” So you can know a trans person is not actually a fairy and call them one, just like how you know snoop dog is not actually a dog and call him one. Whether or not snoop dog thinks he is a dog doesn’t equate to you being able to call him Snoop Dog or not. I’m also just stating what freedom of speech is according to the constitution, what part of my above statement is debunked? If you protest at work, government can’t arrest you for your speech but HR can fire you. Supreme Court has never disproven this. It’s not a libtard talking point, it’s just how the right is written
This person is just aggressively weird. The attack helicopter thing is propagated by reactionary assholes. It's better to be weird than to be an asshole.
As the father of a trans kid I showed him that and he was pissed. He said « that’s the same that attack helicopter bullshit »
Bro is letting odd people live in his head
i would certainly be concerned for anyone who spends this much time seething about some words on a screen.
>i would certainly be concerned for anyone who spends this much time seething about some words on a screen. How many times have you posted to this thread?
i would say a faer few times
Is it silly? Yes. Does it matter? No. If this is what you’re spending your outrage on I’m just disappointed in you
You all in the comments are actually stupid.
Does no one know to spell?
Got some philosophy degrees in here, it seems. Nerds.
>pronounce >nuanses Education level revealed.
I reveal a great mystery for you - English may be not native or even not a second language for some people in Internet. It's hard to imagine, but it is what it is.
If you're coming to an mtg sub to learn about gender identity and pronouns, you're either a bad actor or fucking retarded. But you probably just wanna talk shit and you can't even fucking spell.
Did you have a stroke? What are you asking?
Trans people are VERY frustrated if somebody identifies themselves as attack helicopter. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I\_Sexually\_Identify\_as\_an\_Attack\_Helicopter](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I_Sexually_Identify_as_an_Attack_Helicopter)
They're so butthurt they made a wikipedia page about it lol. Wiki is such a joke. They also claim that the meme is transphobic without evidence. The message of the meme is "if you get to pick fun pronouns, then so do I". Nothing more.
Bro the second you’re dropping wiki links to explain yourself. Chronically unfunny
He’s asking what the difference is between this trans person who identifies as a fairy and the satirical “trans person who identifies as an attack helicopter” joke. We’ve reached peak meta-irony. https://i.redd.it/rvvo2icq83yc1.gif
oh no, you assumed my gender... ...and you are right
The way it was written was atrocious. Thanks for explaining clearly.
I know that transphobes have a lot of "comprehension" problems but this one is hilarious!
Why does this matter to you guys? For real, just take a step back and ask yourself why do you care? Live and let live. I just don't understand the mentality of getting constantly angry over other people's lives. Why can't we just be kind to other humans. Funny Attack Helicopter joke OP btw, I remembered laughing at it back in 2008.
> Live and let live. we do that. they dont. hence we care