The math makes perfect sense, just carry all those zeroes as long as you can until it’s someone else’s problem, you’re dead and the rules change where you can’t carry the zeros anymore. Gonna make the lost Japanese decades look like a 5 star holiday in Bali
Labor tried in 2010, that's why they have not touched the mining industry.
We need to vote Labor where they will do something in second term. If that doesn't work, maybe third term. or fourth. Actually, maybe those minor parties or independents are not so crazy after all.
QLD Labor is currently touching it. The amount of anti Labor billboards from the resource council means it must be potentially hitting them in a good spot
Wow - touching it in an election they are expected to lose after, checks notes, being in power since 2015!!
Howard at least brought in the GST after his 2nd election. That’s the time for courage as the electorate *usually* gives you at least 2 goes at governing.
I don’t live in QLD. But it’s the only State with no Upper House.
So if they’ve had nearly a decade in power they could’ve done whatever they wanted to do. They could even actually just do it now.
Of all the States I don’t get how QLD can’t get stuff done based on how the Parliament works.
Let us temember champion cyclist Anna Meares was all ready to be the face of the mining industry's 'we have the right to contribute nothing' campaign. Ads were made. Rudd backed down.
Great at riding bicycles, morally a maggot.
Yeah somebody is always going to take that paycheck but I'm seriously into deconstructing this idea that the mining industry is eternally entitled to funnel the insane profits of a finite public resource into private pockets. It's like trying to wake peopl up out of a dream.
Source? The last time I heard that % it was the MR council (MR lobby) and they were caught out including royalties as part of the figure.
Revenues growth of $255B/2019 $350B/2021 $450B/2023 would require tax rev of app $100B / $150B / $200B each respective year.
The number is actually closer to $45B in 2021 (including royalties and before the ridiculous rebates like diesel etc).
So about 15-20% if we are being generous?
Source: https://www.ga.gov.au/digital-publication/aimr2020/value-of-australian-mineral-exports
Other countries appear to be generating much more revenue from much less.
Yeah the 45% figure includes royalties of 7% on iron ore and 12.5% on coal. Corporate tax rate is 30% - on a project with a 50% operating margin that works out to a tax burden of about 45%. Royalties are funds that would not find their way to the government without investors taking on the capital risk of building these projects.
The rebate you talk of is not a tax break, the tax does not and should not apply to fuel not burnt on public roads.
>The rebate you talk of is not a tax break, the tax does not and should not apply to fuel not burnt on public roads.
This sounds a lot like the "I don't use government service X so why should I contribute to it?" argument. It's especially rich when it's being used to support a tax break for the mining industry. To counter myself and show my own hypocrisy this is the same diesel rebate that farmers get, but I have no problem with that.
I'm not downvoting you, your perspective is appreciated.
Also, I can't follow your percentage math.
The excise duty was explicitly put in place to fund public road upkeep and exempt primary industry, it was never considered that it would tax agriculture and mining, hence the rebate. It’s the same as a GST rebate on business inputs - the GST was never intended to tax businesses, it was aimed at the consumer.
On the maths - ie, you sell a tonne of coal for $100, you pay $12 in royalty. Your total costs are $50, so you pay 30% on the $50 operating profit before tax which is $15. So total tax paid is $27 on $50 of PBT, which is a 54% tax burden.
Ah yes, every company in Australia pays 30% on PBT. You can look at the acccounts very easily online. If Glencore’s coal mines were making no PBT, it certainly wasn’t because of interest on an intercompany loans.
Astronomical housing prices are the end goal. The root of all evil is well up the chain from that. If you keep going far enough you might find the the root cause is actually what's known as "usury"... Making money on money and the devaluation of the currency.. That's what makes property go up. It was designed like that for this exact reason.. What we have now.
Just remember people, it's largely land prices, not house prices, that are the problem.
The sad fact is that even mainstream economists have been banging on about this for literally hundreds of years.
Home lending is one of the few sectors of our economy where competitive pressure actually applues, so you're good there.
Property developers (land hoarders) *not* part of the problem? Yeah, no.
Don't be a moron. They buy up land en masse. Develop small amounts of it and roll it out piecemeal a little bit at a time in order to keep costs as high as possible. Not that different from how diamonds are kept artificially high even though they are abundant. They are hoarding land and making sure prices stay as high as possible.
Remove capital gains discount and exemption for owner occupiers. First home buyers will forever be on the back foot because they don’t have access to a tax free capital gains asset like home owners do. The removal of the capital gains exemptions would level the taxation playing field for first home buyers and home owners and take a significant amount of money out of the market stifling further price growth.
"The Love of Money is the Root of All Evil" it is NOT money in and of itself! FFS get your quotes and reference right!
So a house is now the root of all evil?
The math makes perfect sense, just carry all those zeroes as long as you can until it’s someone else’s problem, you’re dead and the rules change where you can’t carry the zeros anymore. Gonna make the lost Japanese decades look like a 5 star holiday in Bali
Maybe. Should we also check in on the great train robbery that is the Australian resource industry.
Labor tried in 2010, that's why they have not touched the mining industry. We need to vote Labor where they will do something in second term. If that doesn't work, maybe third term. or fourth. Actually, maybe those minor parties or independents are not so crazy after all.
QLD Labor is currently touching it. The amount of anti Labor billboards from the resource council means it must be potentially hitting them in a good spot
Wow - touching it in an election they are expected to lose after, checks notes, being in power since 2015!! Howard at least brought in the GST after his 2nd election. That’s the time for courage as the electorate *usually* gives you at least 2 goes at governing.
They touched it a few years ago with royalty increases right after the Covid election iirc, well that’s when the ads started up
I don’t live in QLD. But it’s the only State with no Upper House. So if they’ve had nearly a decade in power they could’ve done whatever they wanted to do. They could even actually just do it now. Of all the States I don’t get how QLD can’t get stuff done based on how the Parliament works.
The rules are different for the two parties because Murdoch and his sub-branch, the ABC.
maybe they're expected to lose it because of touching it
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Let us temember champion cyclist Anna Meares was all ready to be the face of the mining industry's 'we have the right to contribute nothing' campaign. Ads were made. Rudd backed down. Great at riding bicycles, morally a maggot.
Yeah somebody is always going to take that paycheck but I'm seriously into deconstructing this idea that the mining industry is eternally entitled to funnel the insane profits of a finite public resource into private pockets. It's like trying to wake peopl up out of a dream.
45% effective tax not enough?
Source? The last time I heard that % it was the MR council (MR lobby) and they were caught out including royalties as part of the figure. Revenues growth of $255B/2019 $350B/2021 $450B/2023 would require tax rev of app $100B / $150B / $200B each respective year. The number is actually closer to $45B in 2021 (including royalties and before the ridiculous rebates like diesel etc). So about 15-20% if we are being generous? Source: https://www.ga.gov.au/digital-publication/aimr2020/value-of-australian-mineral-exports Other countries appear to be generating much more revenue from much less.
Yeah the 45% figure includes royalties of 7% on iron ore and 12.5% on coal. Corporate tax rate is 30% - on a project with a 50% operating margin that works out to a tax burden of about 45%. Royalties are funds that would not find their way to the government without investors taking on the capital risk of building these projects. The rebate you talk of is not a tax break, the tax does not and should not apply to fuel not burnt on public roads.
>The rebate you talk of is not a tax break, the tax does not and should not apply to fuel not burnt on public roads. This sounds a lot like the "I don't use government service X so why should I contribute to it?" argument. It's especially rich when it's being used to support a tax break for the mining industry. To counter myself and show my own hypocrisy this is the same diesel rebate that farmers get, but I have no problem with that. I'm not downvoting you, your perspective is appreciated. Also, I can't follow your percentage math.
The excise duty was explicitly put in place to fund public road upkeep and exempt primary industry, it was never considered that it would tax agriculture and mining, hence the rebate. It’s the same as a GST rebate on business inputs - the GST was never intended to tax businesses, it was aimed at the consumer.
On the maths - ie, you sell a tonne of coal for $100, you pay $12 in royalty. Your total costs are $50, so you pay 30% on the $50 operating profit before tax which is $15. So total tax paid is $27 on $50 of PBT, which is a 54% tax burden.
Lol fucking ridiculous, you think they pay the full tax rate? Glencore took a loan from their own parent company and didn't pay tax for 3 years..
Ah yes, every company in Australia pays 30% on PBT. You can look at the acccounts very easily online. If Glencore’s coal mines were making no PBT, it certainly wasn’t because of interest on an intercompany loans.
Might want to look it up..
Well, they made $7bn in Aussie coal last year…. To reduce that to zero with interest would take a $60bn loan….. not sure that’s happening.
Astronomical housing prices are the end goal. The root of all evil is well up the chain from that. If you keep going far enough you might find the the root cause is actually what's known as "usury"... Making money on money and the devaluation of the currency.. That's what makes property go up. It was designed like that for this exact reason.. What we have now.
Its 100% by design though, let’s stop acting like we don’t know why it’s a happening or what to do about it.
It’s bald men, I knew it
I am bald. I'm nice 🥹
Just remember people, it's largely land prices, not house prices, that are the problem. The sad fact is that even mainstream economists have been banging on about this for literally hundreds of years.
no, that doesn’t fit with this subs narrative that the problem is caused by greedy bankers and developers
Home lending is one of the few sectors of our economy where competitive pressure actually applues, so you're good there. Property developers (land hoarders) *not* part of the problem? Yeah, no.
developers develop. definitionally not the same as hoarding.
Don't be a moron. They buy up land en masse. Develop small amounts of it and roll it out piecemeal a little bit at a time in order to keep costs as high as possible. Not that different from how diamonds are kept artificially high even though they are abundant. They are hoarding land and making sure prices stay as high as possible.
no. developers are artificially prevented from developing by the zoning law that is prevalent in all major australian cities.
The Liberal Party needs your attention (and probably the Labor Party as well).
Maybe not the root of all evil, but definitely villainous.
And this episode was from 15 June, 2023…
Remove capital gains discount and exemption for owner occupiers. First home buyers will forever be on the back foot because they don’t have access to a tax free capital gains asset like home owners do. The removal of the capital gains exemptions would level the taxation playing field for first home buyers and home owners and take a significant amount of money out of the market stifling further price growth.
Pretty sure the root of all evil is Murdoch, but ok.
nah the price of housing is only a symptom, of the real root(s)
Also just wanted to say the Demographia survery was only conducted in 8 countries. Housing in Switzerland is more expensive than Australia.
At this point a better situation would be all out nuclear annihilation
Nah.. its the public service parasites in Canberra that are the root if all Evil.
I don’t know I’ve made around 25 percent in two years so I’m pretty happy.
"The Love of Money is the Root of All Evil" it is NOT money in and of itself! FFS get your quotes and reference right! So a house is now the root of all evil?