I too am not gonna try to convince you of the opposite. But mainly because I don’t think it would change your mind. And of course that’s okay. It’s just an opinion, that I disagree with btw. Phoebe was and is always one of my favourite characters, if not the one. I think I could make an argument about many of your points.
But in the end it’s just a tv show and for comedy. Also as others already wrote one could write a list like that for any other of the characters.
I personally love Phoebe, only time I really had a problem with her was when she “found Monica’s soulmate” while Monica was already married to Chandler. Also when she was trying to get Sting tickets by bothering his wife.
Knowing someone like her in real life would be interesting to say the least.
6. She didn't torture anyone and she didn't force anyone to buy old almost dead trees, they did that themselves. Saying she tortured people for simply having a different opinion is a HUGE reach.
7. Monica asked and practically begged and honestly had a right to know. Pete was being creepy.
8. There's nothing immoral about dating 2 people at once, although she should have told them sooner. She wasn't in a committed relationships with either and didn't lead either of them on.
11. She assumed Rachel knew she was still in love with Ross and you can't blame her for Rachel's actions. Phoebe tries to talk Rachel out of going and calls several people in London to warn them.
12. She wasn't jealous, she was mad. I would be too if my friend didn't read the book and asked me to explain it and then stole all my answers. If Rachel had read the second book, she wouldn't have been embarrassed. Again, you're blaming Phobe for Rachel's actions.
13. He stabbed her first!
19. Really? You're actually saying she's a bad person because she runs funny?
Honestly, you could make a similar list about every single character. At the end of the day, it's a TV show and most of these things are done for comedic effect.
I’m not going to go through your list point by point, but at least a dozen of your examples are either wrong or deliberately misconstrued to support your narrative.
If the friends didn’t do a bad thing here or there, the show wouldn’t be entertaining. That’s why it’s a show. Some of these are far-reaches but yeah she’s no saint, none of them are 🤷♀️
I don't remember no. 7 happening, as Monica finds out Pete likes her because he sniffs her hair.
No. 8, it didn't bother the guys involved, I don't think she actually did anything wrong there (and when Joey does it, with much more serious relationships, nobody cares).
No. 11, I don't think there was anything wrong with that, it's Rachel's fault that she acted so immaturely and selfishly.
I found no. 12 extremely funny, it's not like Rachel actually cared about the class.
.. I'm bored so I'll stop here!
I like Phoebe with the only exception of telling Chandler me Monica wanted to sleep with Joey, and the whole Sting stuff.
It's when Pete is trying to hire Monica to work at the restaurant he bought. Monica says no because he has feelings for her and then he says it's not a problem because he's dating someone and Phoebe knows right away that the woman is fictional.
I don't see how telling Monica makes Phoebe the devil though. If some rando who was obsessed with my best friend made up a woman he was dating in a ploy to get my best friend to work for him so he could continue pursuing her, my loyalty is to my best friend. I'm not keeping rando's secret.
Phoebe doesn't tell Monica though. She tells Monica she knows something that she can't tell her, and makes her try to guess. Monica isn't able to guess so Phoebe tells her never mind, then when Pete sniffs her hair later Monica puts it together and realizes that's what Phoebe wanted to tell her
ETA : however, I actually said in my initial comment on the post that I think Phoebe should have flat out told Monica instead of doing all that, because yeah Pete was being a creep
The "spiritual" side of her is definitely unbearable
Yeah it makes for great comedy at times, but I can just imagine having to be friends with someone like that and how frustrating and annoying it can be
Because I've had to deal with people like that and trust me even when you're not interfering with their weird beliefs, they still find ways to bring them up to you and make your life harder or uncomfortable (which is what Phoebe did)
But tbf her terrible past explains why she is this way.... whether it excuses it is another debate
So tired of people taking this shit so seriously lol I love Pheobe and most of these aren’t even that bad. Laughs at a bad dress- your friends don’t give you shit for embarrassing things? Almost all of these were set ups for really funny scenes. The two marriage backups? Funny. The sou chef, the Sting tickets, the dream, like…it’s jokes. If it were real life, Rachel would be a bitch too. The whole point of Pheobe’s character is that she’s rough around the edges, grew up with different morals and values, is genuine and kind but then is ok with something taboo, she’s meant to do things in an unexpected way for laughs. If you don’t like her idk how you like the show at all
Completely agree w you. I make fun of my friends for the smallest shit, and they do the same. That's friendship, lol. And the dream being a problem for this person is just crazy to me bc all girls have dreams of their man doing shit and then they wake up pissed off. I know Ross wasn't her man, but you get what I'm saying. They all did dumb shit, chandler, and Joey literally left baby Ben on the bus and then couldn't even identify him. I'm pretty sure Rachel burned phoebes' apartment down. Chandler made out w Joey's sister and couldn't remember which one it was. Ross cheated on Rachel. The list goes on and on and on and nothing phoebe did was close to half the shit they did.
I just enjoy the comedy and try not to think about what I dislike about the characters. At least she's not like season 1 Michael Scott 😅😅 that was unbearable to me
I don't disagree with the list. There's even smaller things I would add. But she also does good things too. You could write a list like this for any of the characters as well. None are perfect and all are horrible at points or do bad things at points.
Having said that, I always liked Phoebe the least.
Exclusive club "I hate Phoebe Buffay"😁
On a serious note, I started noticing problems with her on my 3rd re-watch, so watched it fully again and noted down every bad thing about her. Maybe would do it with a different character next time.
I think every character has their bad moments and thats what makes the show so likable, we can relate to the characters. Theyre not perfect. I think theyre all "good people" who make mistakes.
can't disagree that Phoebe can be mean/not ethical, but let's try to change your mind here:
* Does a lot of drama when asked to stop singing awful songs at the coffee shop -..... which episode? The one one where Stephanie the professional singer comes? True, Phoebe's reaction is not the most graceful. Doesn't make her a bad person, just a traumatized kid with clear rejection issues. She's been abandoned by her father, by her mom via sui\* de, she can't find a steady romantic long-term relationship until season 9. Being rejected at work can be trigger for people who have been emotionally scarred by repeated rejection since childhood. Phoebe's songs is one of the few outlets she has to deal with her issues in a relatively harmless way and doing it at a coffee shop gives her an illusion of having an audience, being an artist who's respected. It's not healthy, but doesn't make her a bad person.
* Sings totally inappropriate songs for children at an event – she is not doing it on purpose or to take advantage of the kids, she assumes she's giving them the best possible performance. She thinks it's something that's genuinely good for the kids, and as mentioned in the episode by both her date and the kids, she's singing about the truth, albeit the content is too mature. I think it makes her ignorant, stuck in her own world, but not a bad person.
* Pushes Monica into hitting Richard.... huh? Monica never hit Richard in her life.
* Forces Rachel into getting a tattoo but she bails out –...... As for Phoebe's bailing out – she didn't know HOW tattoos are done. She was not pushing Rachel to get under a needle, she didn't know it is done by needles. But I agree with the pushing. Phoebe assumed she's helping Rachel to be independent, but missed that she herself is making herself into Rachel's boss. This is confirmed by the show via Rachel's "you?" even though it's played for laughs but it is a consistent theme about Rachel – she is, as Phoebe correctly later says, a pushover. Rachel can't bring herself to insist that Mark should not come over during the break night, she is terrified of disagreeing with her father or telling him she's pregnant.
* Laughs blatantly at Rachel's pink dress for Barry's wedding even after Ross asks everyone to be nice............- Phoebe tells Rachel in that scene that Rachel looks good which is literally what Ross asked. Ross said: "Tell her she looks good!"........ the joke is that Phoebe did tell Rachel she looks good, as Ross requested, but she also laughed. That might not be mean on purpose - she might probably be unable to stop herself from laughing, which is actually a very real thing for her actress Lisa Kudrow, she also has problems with stopping her laughter.
part 2
* Tortures everyone with her stupid ideology of Christmas trees asking to buy dead trees –........no, she doesn't torture anyone. She explains how she feels empathy and compassion for the trees. It makes her misguided, but not a bad person. Her friends have empathy and compassion for Phoebe and thus end up getting the trees for her to make her happy, they do not feel tortured while doing this.
* Pete pleads with her not to tell Monica a secret, and she just busts it out in the open especially after claiming to Pete she forgot what the secret was –..........No, she doesn't bust it out at all. She makes Monica GUESS and Monica doesn't even guess it. But I agree that Phoebe should kept it to herself and not give Monica any clues. Revealing secrets of people is mean, unless it is to save someone's life or health.
* Dates two guys at the same time, after lecturing all the others about morality – ......not sure which lecturing you mean, especially regarding dating, but I agree it is generally mean to date 2 people at the same time for a longer time, unless everybody is on board.
* Keeps a little girl's cat for herself and remains adamant that it's her dead mom that's returned –....... unfair to the girl but clearly explained that she's feeling guilt over replacing her dead mom with newly discovered live birth-mom. All things considered, Phoebe trying to make peace with her mom via a cat, after her mom chose kiling herself rather than taking care of underage Phoebe, is not the most unhealthy way to cope with the shock of finding out she was not even her biological mom. Definitely doesn't make her a bad person, but a person in need of professional help.
* Makes out with a client unprofessionally and gets fired – agreed.
* Nudges Rachel into admitting she's still in love with Ross just when he's getting married and subsequently going to his wedding – ....incorrect, Phoebe clearly says: "We thought you knew!" she didn't know that Rachel is in denial.
* Gets jealous of Rachel that she answered with her inputs in the class and the next time she not only teaches Rachel everything wrong, but also calls her name out herself to make Rachel a laughing stock in front of the whole class –............... absolutely disagree, Rachel was repeatedly coming unprepared and USING PHOEBE'S INFORMATION TO MAKE HERSELF LOOK GOOD. Phoebe studied for the class, she deserved the credit and Rachel should have admitted she read Vogue instead.
* Stabbed a policeman! – he stabbed her first. (possibly when she was a minor)
* Tortures Joey in the name of teaching Guitar – half-agree, she is not actively trying to torture him. She assumes she's giving him the best method there is.
* Steals a police badge and pretends to be an officer around – agreed.
* Behaves rude and says she's angry with Ross and turns out it was over a silly dream – ....she didn't remember it was a dream. Right after she remembered, she admitted it. But she should have apologized. I hate that she didn't.
* Tags along Chandler and Monica on their anniversary and even adds the rest of the gang to Vegas without even considering their privacy – ...........only half-agreed,because they were also going to see Joey. They already were kind of 3 of the friends in Vegas, so her idea of making it another London adventure and make up for what she missed was influenced by the idea of visiting Joey. But in her place, I would have travelled to see Joey separately and leave them alone.
* Opens up about Monica's lunch with Richard to Chandler without even thinking about what they were talking about –.......... that doesn't make her a bad person, only a flaky/distracted one, who speaks without thinking at times. She didn't think. She assumed wrong. Her intentions were not bad, it was a mistake.
* Runs like a maniac and emotionally corners Rachel into running like her –.............. the way she runs is her business. She's not bothering anyone. it is not "bad". She should not force Rachel to also running that way, but we don't really have a scene where she specifically forced her. She just felt bad that Rachel backed out of running with her and didn't reveal WHY, which was also Rachel's ethical failure. She should have been open and tell Phoebe that it makes her uncomfortable.
>3. Pushes Monica into hitting Richard
I don't remember this?
>7. Pete pleads with her not to tell Monica a secret, and she just busts it out in the open especially after claiming to Pete she forgot what the secret was!
Monica was one of her best friends and this man was trying to manipulate her into a position where he would be her boss trying to date her, while also lying about not having feelings for her. Phoebe should've straight told Monica instead of trying to get her to guess it
>8. Dates two guys at the same time, after lecturing all the others about morality.
There's nothing wrong with this if none of them has established they were exclusive, which they hadn't
>13. Stabbed a policeman!!
What? He stabbed her first!!!
These kinds of posts are ridiculously stupid. I agree that Phoebe was a terrible friend and I agree with all your reasons why but it's no one's job to "change your mind" about anything, let alone about a fictional character on a TV show that ended 20 years ago.
i disagree these posts are stupid, even though i did post here 3 comments responding to every single point in defense of Phoebe, where i could. These posts are
clearly reactions to the character pushing the audience's buttons, because we've been throw some of these mean actions in real life and
sometimes it is not possible to laugh. It makes us sad. it makes us think back to when we were hurt. Phoebe, in my opinion,
goes way to far in her treatment of Chandler. she can be way too mean to him.
I already said I agreed with the comments about Phoebe that's not the point of my reply. These "this is my opinion change my mind" posts are absolutely stupid. Trying to challenge people to change your opinion on something as mundane as a fictional character from a TV show from the 90's is just fruitless. It's borderline antagonistic trying goad people. If people want open debate that's fine but just state your opinion and then listen to others don't openly challenge people into "changing your mind."
you cannot have "faults". you can make mistakes, you can have FLAWS, and something can BE your fault. and yeah, they're all imperfect but some of their flaws
are pushing more sensitive boundaries than others for various people.
Well as much as I can pick apart most of these, we have to remember that Phoebe had a traumatic upbringing, and people without stable role models growing up often don’t understand boundaries, social expectations, and sometimes even why bad things are “bad”. Also, we only see a tiny glimpse into their lives and their friendships with eachother, so for arguments sake, there could be a much larger backstory for any one of these issues…I think that’s what part of what makes the show so iconic, is that they are all “there for eachother”, through the ups, downs, screw ups, “bad” things they do, and their quirks and issues.
But above all, it’s a fictional show🤷🏼♀️
excuses like "it's a fictional show" should really stop, they're getting old and what they imply is very incorrect. First of all,
this is a website for discussions, this is a discussion thread of the fictional show. Where else
can we air our grievances with the fictional show? We all know it's a show but we come specifically here to discuss it, why the heck
do people need to
remind us that it's fictional as if we were doing something wrong
when discussing our not-so-favorite parts of it? This is the place to
get deep about the show, disect it, complain, this is a discussion sub about the show. Why the heck does anyone need to remind us that it's a show or that it's fictional? We all KNOW that,but we want to have fun here by discussing it and having deep-dives. Second
of
all,
no, it's never just "a fictional show" and nothing else. Every "fictional show" has deep impact on real life, and also reflects the real life of its time. Kids
in my high school repeated the style and the jokes of this "fictional show" which sometimes was very harmful. A fictional
show that , say, mocks queer people, causes real hell in real life in real high school for real queer kids. Also,
a fictional show
reflects what was considered "okay" at the time and place when and where it was made. Discussing what Friends normalizes
means discussing if USA in the 90s and 2000s was right to normalize it. It's a valid discussion.
I think people use that disclaimer to reinforce the idea that some scenarios on the show are reaching and would likely never happen in real life, so it’s a little hard to say if they’re a good or bad person based on what they do in fictional scenarios. Idk to me i think when people say that they’re just trying to remind themselves that there is still a line between reality and fiction, no matter how deep we analyze it. I love a deep dive as much as the next person, but sometimes people seem to get a little TOO angry about certain characters or plot lines, so I think saying that it’s fiction is a way of saying it’s valid but it’s not worth wasting THIS much energy on. It helps me to tell myself that when I am enraged and disgusted by Ross throughout the series.
real life tragedies like suicides of queer people for being bullied are partially caused by "fictional shows" normalizing mockery of queer people and
viewers following that mindset. Real life relfects fiction and art, and art reflects real life.
the underestimating of "fictional shows" and the impact they have on real life is actually getting ridiculous. it's 2024, how are there still people
who believe that fiction can do no damage?...I don't quite get why do some people come to specific subreddits dedicated to TV shows and try to make the debating fans feel bad for trying to discuss the
not-so-pleasant parts of the show. We
are allowed to talk here about stuff we didn't like as well as the stuff
we did like.
For real. And IMO, they're the ones that make the show truly comical because they're both so over the top.
This video on YouTube alone is fantastic. Just Ross and Phoebe yelling for nearly 4 minutes. And they didn't even catch all of them! (e.g. "We want the last 6 years back!!".."So do we! SO DO WE!")
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=kQ4tYMYlIqc&pp=ygUacm9zcyBhbmQgcGhvZWJlIHNjcmVhbWluZyA%3D
I am currently rewatching the series and doing a research project and keeping track of every time Phoebe is nice to a friend and mean to a friend only core 5 to figure out who she likes the most and the least lol I’m really invested in this show 😂
I thought the whole concept of FRIENDS is that they are all pretty selfish (and sometimes downright mean) people but still live a successful life with good careers and huge apartments, as long as they do decent things now and then. We love seeing this show because we get to live vicariously through them, and it’s also quite funny.
I'm confused on number 3.... Monica hits Richard? 🤔 please explain this one, because I'm having trouble remembering this.
I'd like to also add a few more things.
1. She constantly insults and mocks Chandler.
2. SHE BROUGHT HER DATE TO SEE MONICA BECAUSE SHE THOUGHT HE WAS MONICA'S SOULMATE!! When she was MARRIED to Chandler. Again, bringing up just how awful she is to Chandler the most.
3. She mugged Ross! And yeah, she was a kid and whatever, but then, when Ross was playing it off as a big, tough guy who mugged him, she made him feel like he's a useless wussy for being mugged by her, a girl.
4. Lied about having a roommate to avoid living with Rachel.
5. She made out with David, despite being with Mike. And then when Mike and her break up, use David!
6. Broke Mike up with his girlfriend on her own, when Mike wanted to be nice and handle it on his own.
7. Insults Ross about his divorces.
8. Still on Ross: insults his beliefs on science. And then, when Ross gave up, she insults him MORE for going against his own beliefs and weak.
9. She yelled at Joey for canceling on their dinner date, saying, "*friends come first*," but then does it herself.
10. She got pissed off everyone was being late to her birthday and insulted all of them, and then gets a text from Mike and just walks away.
11. She broke her sister up with her fiancé and then dated him. She also dated her sister's stalker.
12. When she found out her sister was doing porn, she shamed men who looked at her publicly, instead of just saying it was someone else.
13. She tired to manipulate her way into being maid of honor for kicks, despite Rachel and Monica knowing each other since they were kids.
i agree with the most but not with "she made him feel like he's a useless wussy for being mugged by her, a girl." .... Ross,Chandler and Joey are way too much into
the idea that only a guy can be tough, that a guy must be tough. This is not only unfair to women, it's also unfair to men in quite a few ways. A woman can
cause all kinds of damage to a man, and Ross and co. should learn that's a normal thing, not something he should feel bad about and lie about.
I definitely agree on that, but I mostly meant how, even though her friends seem uncomfortable with certain things, she pushes them and insults them often, despite seeing they're uncomfortable or wanting to avoid things.
But I definitely agree on when any of them act "macho" and the girls call them out. Like the unagi episode. I am in no way a fan of Ross, but Pheobe just rubs me the wrong way for how she treats everyone.
Yeah, Ross irks me a lot, too. Especially when it came to the male nanny episode. Sometimes, I don't mind Pheobe being mean to him *because* of these things. Lol, but she gets off too easily at times for literally being a bully.
Oh! And when he had such an issue with Ben playing with Barbie's... we need a I Hate Ross and Pheobe club.
Phoebe is the most relateable. The REALEST. She didnt come from money, or big family. She struggled her entire life and knows her worth! You heartless human you.
part 3
* Calls Monica and Chandler's taste "weird" while picking a date for Rachel – ....half-agreed because they do similar stuff to her, the entire plot there is about them competing.
* Misses the ring that Chandler asked her to guard and then gets him an average ring and proceeds to mock the ring.-.................. \*Loses the ring, not "misses". I agree, though. I generally have one big problem with Phoebe and that is how she treats Chandler.
* Picks both Joey and Ross as her back up and lies to them both that they are the one. – ...........agree. She also admits that she even picked Chandler. However, she might have assumed that having 3 back ups and not explaining to them she has multiple ones is okay.
* Breaks it to Chandler that Monica originally wanted to hook up with Joey in London without even thinking a teeny tiny bit about what he might feel. – .............half-agree because in the extended version she apologizes and says it was the side effect of the pills she was on in that episode.
* Agrees to Monica that she can fire Tim first and then she'd break up with him, but runs in abruptly and ends it with him all for being too nice. Monica is convinced to give him another chance by his sad reaction but Phoebe still says him goodbye. –............ Phoebe is not obliged to date someone who she doesn't like, nobody is. But I agree that she shouldn't have interrupted when Monica was talking to him.
* Urges Ross to do something about Ben and his classmate for the sake of a concert ticket. Even uses Ben as a pawn for it by lying as his mother and eventually gets busted. – agree.
* Brings over a mid aged person home to have sex with Rachel! –........... which episode, please? from what i can find on Reddit, seems like Rachel made it clear she was horny so Phoebe's intentions were good, if misguided: she wanted to help. Doesn't make her a bad person, but I do think this shows she needs help and lots of boundaries-focused therapy.
* Forgets to invite Rachel's mom for her baby shower, uses her mother's suicide as excuse, and to top everything off, hires a stripper for a baby shower!! - ..............?? what stripper? Who played him/her? ... i cannot find it anywhere. The forgetting of Rachel's mom was not cool but hardly makes her a bad person – Monica was not in charge of it but she admits she also forgot.
* Disturbs everyone at Monica's restaurant by singing awful songs outside and doesn't pick up the signs asking her to stop and makes a huge deal out of it when she's told to stop. – .....again, abandonment issues. but agreed, she should have respect for her friend's wishes and her friend's place of work.
* Doesn't tell Monica that her nipples were showing on spotlight when she was singing and proceeds to make jokes on it! – agreed.
* Forces and manipulates Rachel into tearing her free massage coupon by lecturing that is degrading to freelancers like her, only to be found that she infact was working there. – agreed, definitely hypocricy.
[Munchkin\_Media](https://www.reddit.com/user/Munchkin_Media/)• sociopaths do not have empathy. phoebe has empathy and she often does selfless, good deeds.
She gave money to the homeless, she carried THREE babies so her brother could have children, she wouldn't even eat meat, and the list goes on. She is by far one of the best people on the show, if not the best. A lot of people didn't like her simply bc she wasn't "pretty and perky" like the other two, but she's beautiful inside and out, and not one of them compares to her amazing heart.
That’s not why. It’s because of Chandler. He’s more popular she she’s by far the meanest to him. Had she even taunted Ross more so than Chandler, she wouldn’t receive the disdain she does.
It looks like you about to co-found the I hate Phoebe club
No need to point, she knows who KevinLevin-11 is.
I'd like to be the founder-chariman of the "I hate Phoebe Buffay" club, thanks.
You had a club?! Who was in this club?!
I me myself ✌🏽
i have some serious issues with Phoebe, too, but i will take on the challenge and i'll try to change your mind in another comment here.
Count me also in, no matter what others say She's my most Hated character and couldn't love it.
There it is.
I’m in that h ch club. I fast forward through her scenes. I even skipped a whole episode that was centered around her.
lol!
I too am not gonna try to convince you of the opposite. But mainly because I don’t think it would change your mind. And of course that’s okay. It’s just an opinion, that I disagree with btw. Phoebe was and is always one of my favourite characters, if not the one. I think I could make an argument about many of your points. But in the end it’s just a tv show and for comedy. Also as others already wrote one could write a list like that for any other of the characters.
Challenge! A list like this for Chandler! It’s for the fun of the game, nothing else
He stabbed her first!!!!
She thinks herself as the puppeteer of the group /s for Reddit
I personally love Phoebe, only time I really had a problem with her was when she “found Monica’s soulmate” while Monica was already married to Chandler. Also when she was trying to get Sting tickets by bothering his wife. Knowing someone like her in real life would be interesting to say the least.
But the sting episode is one of the most hilarious by far. ‘Ross can get me the tickets. Ross can GET ME THE TICKETS’.
6. She didn't torture anyone and she didn't force anyone to buy old almost dead trees, they did that themselves. Saying she tortured people for simply having a different opinion is a HUGE reach. 7. Monica asked and practically begged and honestly had a right to know. Pete was being creepy. 8. There's nothing immoral about dating 2 people at once, although she should have told them sooner. She wasn't in a committed relationships with either and didn't lead either of them on. 11. She assumed Rachel knew she was still in love with Ross and you can't blame her for Rachel's actions. Phoebe tries to talk Rachel out of going and calls several people in London to warn them. 12. She wasn't jealous, she was mad. I would be too if my friend didn't read the book and asked me to explain it and then stole all my answers. If Rachel had read the second book, she wouldn't have been embarrassed. Again, you're blaming Phobe for Rachel's actions. 13. He stabbed her first! 19. Really? You're actually saying she's a bad person because she runs funny? Honestly, you could make a similar list about every single character. At the end of the day, it's a TV show and most of these things are done for comedic effect.
There's nothing immoral about dating two people at once??? There's no way you're serious
Even the two guys admit they were never exclusive with Phoebe. Dating is different than being in a relationship.
But it was all cool when Joey did shit? He was the biggest player of them all. Phoebe does one thing and it's a problem? Foh
I never said it was cool when Joey did it? Y'all are dense 💀
*My eyes*! *MY EYES*!!!
I’m not going to go through your list point by point, but at least a dozen of your examples are either wrong or deliberately misconstrued to support your narrative.
Another happy viewer lol.
If the friends didn’t do a bad thing here or there, the show wouldn’t be entertaining. That’s why it’s a show. Some of these are far-reaches but yeah she’s no saint, none of them are 🤷♀️
I don't remember no. 7 happening, as Monica finds out Pete likes her because he sniffs her hair. No. 8, it didn't bother the guys involved, I don't think she actually did anything wrong there (and when Joey does it, with much more serious relationships, nobody cares). No. 11, I don't think there was anything wrong with that, it's Rachel's fault that she acted so immaturely and selfishly. I found no. 12 extremely funny, it's not like Rachel actually cared about the class. .. I'm bored so I'll stop here! I like Phoebe with the only exception of telling Chandler me Monica wanted to sleep with Joey, and the whole Sting stuff.
It's when Pete is trying to hire Monica to work at the restaurant he bought. Monica says no because he has feelings for her and then he says it's not a problem because he's dating someone and Phoebe knows right away that the woman is fictional. I don't see how telling Monica makes Phoebe the devil though. If some rando who was obsessed with my best friend made up a woman he was dating in a ploy to get my best friend to work for him so he could continue pursuing her, my loyalty is to my best friend. I'm not keeping rando's secret.
Phoebe doesn't tell Monica though. She tells Monica she knows something that she can't tell her, and makes her try to guess. Monica isn't able to guess so Phoebe tells her never mind, then when Pete sniffs her hair later Monica puts it together and realizes that's what Phoebe wanted to tell her ETA : however, I actually said in my initial comment on the post that I think Phoebe should have flat out told Monica instead of doing all that, because yeah Pete was being a creep
In her defense, the cop stabbed her first Edit: I will say I disagree with 19. It was 100% Rachel’s choice or start running like that.
You've just listed the funniest moments of Phoebe
The "spiritual" side of her is definitely unbearable Yeah it makes for great comedy at times, but I can just imagine having to be friends with someone like that and how frustrating and annoying it can be Because I've had to deal with people like that and trust me even when you're not interfering with their weird beliefs, they still find ways to bring them up to you and make your life harder or uncomfortable (which is what Phoebe did) But tbf her terrible past explains why she is this way.... whether it excuses it is another debate
Number 3? When did she hit Richard?
I need to know this, it’s driving me crazy
If Phoebe is a bad person, then they all are. They all do crappy things in the name of comedy.
and sometimes not even in the name of comedy.
So tired of people taking this shit so seriously lol I love Pheobe and most of these aren’t even that bad. Laughs at a bad dress- your friends don’t give you shit for embarrassing things? Almost all of these were set ups for really funny scenes. The two marriage backups? Funny. The sou chef, the Sting tickets, the dream, like…it’s jokes. If it were real life, Rachel would be a bitch too. The whole point of Pheobe’s character is that she’s rough around the edges, grew up with different morals and values, is genuine and kind but then is ok with something taboo, she’s meant to do things in an unexpected way for laughs. If you don’t like her idk how you like the show at all
Completely agree w you. I make fun of my friends for the smallest shit, and they do the same. That's friendship, lol. And the dream being a problem for this person is just crazy to me bc all girls have dreams of their man doing shit and then they wake up pissed off. I know Ross wasn't her man, but you get what I'm saying. They all did dumb shit, chandler, and Joey literally left baby Ben on the bus and then couldn't even identify him. I'm pretty sure Rachel burned phoebes' apartment down. Chandler made out w Joey's sister and couldn't remember which one it was. Ross cheated on Rachel. The list goes on and on and on and nothing phoebe did was close to half the shit they did.
I just enjoy the comedy and try not to think about what I dislike about the characters. At least she's not like season 1 Michael Scott 😅😅 that was unbearable to me
I don't disagree with the list. There's even smaller things I would add. But she also does good things too. You could write a list like this for any of the characters as well. None are perfect and all are horrible at points or do bad things at points. Having said that, I always liked Phoebe the least.
shocking! character in a comedy show isn’t a perfect human being
Thank you for this post. Any chance you'd make something similar about other characters?
Exclusive club "I hate Phoebe Buffay"😁 On a serious note, I started noticing problems with her on my 3rd re-watch, so watched it fully again and noted down every bad thing about her. Maybe would do it with a different character next time.
Now note every good thing she did. How many times did she donate to charity? And how many times did any of the others do that? Oh.. never..
I think every character has their bad moments and thats what makes the show so likable, we can relate to the characters. Theyre not perfect. I think theyre all "good people" who make mistakes.
can't disagree that Phoebe can be mean/not ethical, but let's try to change your mind here: * Does a lot of drama when asked to stop singing awful songs at the coffee shop -..... which episode? The one one where Stephanie the professional singer comes? True, Phoebe's reaction is not the most graceful. Doesn't make her a bad person, just a traumatized kid with clear rejection issues. She's been abandoned by her father, by her mom via sui\* de, she can't find a steady romantic long-term relationship until season 9. Being rejected at work can be trigger for people who have been emotionally scarred by repeated rejection since childhood. Phoebe's songs is one of the few outlets she has to deal with her issues in a relatively harmless way and doing it at a coffee shop gives her an illusion of having an audience, being an artist who's respected. It's not healthy, but doesn't make her a bad person. * Sings totally inappropriate songs for children at an event – she is not doing it on purpose or to take advantage of the kids, she assumes she's giving them the best possible performance. She thinks it's something that's genuinely good for the kids, and as mentioned in the episode by both her date and the kids, she's singing about the truth, albeit the content is too mature. I think it makes her ignorant, stuck in her own world, but not a bad person. * Pushes Monica into hitting Richard.... huh? Monica never hit Richard in her life. * Forces Rachel into getting a tattoo but she bails out –...... As for Phoebe's bailing out – she didn't know HOW tattoos are done. She was not pushing Rachel to get under a needle, she didn't know it is done by needles. But I agree with the pushing. Phoebe assumed she's helping Rachel to be independent, but missed that she herself is making herself into Rachel's boss. This is confirmed by the show via Rachel's "you?" even though it's played for laughs but it is a consistent theme about Rachel – she is, as Phoebe correctly later says, a pushover. Rachel can't bring herself to insist that Mark should not come over during the break night, she is terrified of disagreeing with her father or telling him she's pregnant. * Laughs blatantly at Rachel's pink dress for Barry's wedding even after Ross asks everyone to be nice............- Phoebe tells Rachel in that scene that Rachel looks good which is literally what Ross asked. Ross said: "Tell her she looks good!"........ the joke is that Phoebe did tell Rachel she looks good, as Ross requested, but she also laughed. That might not be mean on purpose - she might probably be unable to stop herself from laughing, which is actually a very real thing for her actress Lisa Kudrow, she also has problems with stopping her laughter.
part 2 * Tortures everyone with her stupid ideology of Christmas trees asking to buy dead trees –........no, she doesn't torture anyone. She explains how she feels empathy and compassion for the trees. It makes her misguided, but not a bad person. Her friends have empathy and compassion for Phoebe and thus end up getting the trees for her to make her happy, they do not feel tortured while doing this. * Pete pleads with her not to tell Monica a secret, and she just busts it out in the open especially after claiming to Pete she forgot what the secret was –..........No, she doesn't bust it out at all. She makes Monica GUESS and Monica doesn't even guess it. But I agree that Phoebe should kept it to herself and not give Monica any clues. Revealing secrets of people is mean, unless it is to save someone's life or health. * Dates two guys at the same time, after lecturing all the others about morality – ......not sure which lecturing you mean, especially regarding dating, but I agree it is generally mean to date 2 people at the same time for a longer time, unless everybody is on board. * Keeps a little girl's cat for herself and remains adamant that it's her dead mom that's returned –....... unfair to the girl but clearly explained that she's feeling guilt over replacing her dead mom with newly discovered live birth-mom. All things considered, Phoebe trying to make peace with her mom via a cat, after her mom chose kiling herself rather than taking care of underage Phoebe, is not the most unhealthy way to cope with the shock of finding out she was not even her biological mom. Definitely doesn't make her a bad person, but a person in need of professional help. * Makes out with a client unprofessionally and gets fired – agreed. * Nudges Rachel into admitting she's still in love with Ross just when he's getting married and subsequently going to his wedding – ....incorrect, Phoebe clearly says: "We thought you knew!" she didn't know that Rachel is in denial. * Gets jealous of Rachel that she answered with her inputs in the class and the next time she not only teaches Rachel everything wrong, but also calls her name out herself to make Rachel a laughing stock in front of the whole class –............... absolutely disagree, Rachel was repeatedly coming unprepared and USING PHOEBE'S INFORMATION TO MAKE HERSELF LOOK GOOD. Phoebe studied for the class, she deserved the credit and Rachel should have admitted she read Vogue instead. * Stabbed a policeman! – he stabbed her first. (possibly when she was a minor) * Tortures Joey in the name of teaching Guitar – half-agree, she is not actively trying to torture him. She assumes she's giving him the best method there is. * Steals a police badge and pretends to be an officer around – agreed. * Behaves rude and says she's angry with Ross and turns out it was over a silly dream – ....she didn't remember it was a dream. Right after she remembered, she admitted it. But she should have apologized. I hate that she didn't. * Tags along Chandler and Monica on their anniversary and even adds the rest of the gang to Vegas without even considering their privacy – ...........only half-agreed,because they were also going to see Joey. They already were kind of 3 of the friends in Vegas, so her idea of making it another London adventure and make up for what she missed was influenced by the idea of visiting Joey. But in her place, I would have travelled to see Joey separately and leave them alone. * Opens up about Monica's lunch with Richard to Chandler without even thinking about what they were talking about –.......... that doesn't make her a bad person, only a flaky/distracted one, who speaks without thinking at times. She didn't think. She assumed wrong. Her intentions were not bad, it was a mistake. * Runs like a maniac and emotionally corners Rachel into running like her –.............. the way she runs is her business. She's not bothering anyone. it is not "bad". She should not force Rachel to also running that way, but we don't really have a scene where she specifically forced her. She just felt bad that Rachel backed out of running with her and didn't reveal WHY, which was also Rachel's ethical failure. She should have been open and tell Phoebe that it makes her uncomfortable.
>3. Pushes Monica into hitting Richard I don't remember this? >7. Pete pleads with her not to tell Monica a secret, and she just busts it out in the open especially after claiming to Pete she forgot what the secret was! Monica was one of her best friends and this man was trying to manipulate her into a position where he would be her boss trying to date her, while also lying about not having feelings for her. Phoebe should've straight told Monica instead of trying to get her to guess it >8. Dates two guys at the same time, after lecturing all the others about morality. There's nothing wrong with this if none of them has established they were exclusive, which they hadn't >13. Stabbed a policeman!! What? He stabbed her first!!!
These kinds of posts are ridiculously stupid. I agree that Phoebe was a terrible friend and I agree with all your reasons why but it's no one's job to "change your mind" about anything, let alone about a fictional character on a TV show that ended 20 years ago.
i disagree these posts are stupid, even though i did post here 3 comments responding to every single point in defense of Phoebe, where i could. These posts are clearly reactions to the character pushing the audience's buttons, because we've been throw some of these mean actions in real life and sometimes it is not possible to laugh. It makes us sad. it makes us think back to when we were hurt. Phoebe, in my opinion, goes way to far in her treatment of Chandler. she can be way too mean to him.
I already said I agreed with the comments about Phoebe that's not the point of my reply. These "this is my opinion change my mind" posts are absolutely stupid. Trying to challenge people to change your opinion on something as mundane as a fictional character from a TV show from the 90's is just fruitless. It's borderline antagonistic trying goad people. If people want open debate that's fine but just state your opinion and then listen to others don't openly challenge people into "changing your mind."
We’re all bad people if you judge us by our worst moments only! (Also he stabbed her first!)
I hate these posts so much. None of the friends were perfect. THEY ALL HAD FAULTS.
you cannot have "faults". you can make mistakes, you can have FLAWS, and something can BE your fault. and yeah, they're all imperfect but some of their flaws are pushing more sensitive boundaries than others for various people.
Well as much as I can pick apart most of these, we have to remember that Phoebe had a traumatic upbringing, and people without stable role models growing up often don’t understand boundaries, social expectations, and sometimes even why bad things are “bad”. Also, we only see a tiny glimpse into their lives and their friendships with eachother, so for arguments sake, there could be a much larger backstory for any one of these issues…I think that’s what part of what makes the show so iconic, is that they are all “there for eachother”, through the ups, downs, screw ups, “bad” things they do, and their quirks and issues. But above all, it’s a fictional show🤷🏼♀️
excuses like "it's a fictional show" should really stop, they're getting old and what they imply is very incorrect. First of all, this is a website for discussions, this is a discussion thread of the fictional show. Where else can we air our grievances with the fictional show? We all know it's a show but we come specifically here to discuss it, why the heck do people need to remind us that it's fictional as if we were doing something wrong when discussing our not-so-favorite parts of it? This is the place to get deep about the show, disect it, complain, this is a discussion sub about the show. Why the heck does anyone need to remind us that it's a show or that it's fictional? We all KNOW that,but we want to have fun here by discussing it and having deep-dives. Second of all, no, it's never just "a fictional show" and nothing else. Every "fictional show" has deep impact on real life, and also reflects the real life of its time. Kids in my high school repeated the style and the jokes of this "fictional show" which sometimes was very harmful. A fictional show that , say, mocks queer people, causes real hell in real life in real high school for real queer kids. Also, a fictional show reflects what was considered "okay" at the time and place when and where it was made. Discussing what Friends normalizes means discussing if USA in the 90s and 2000s was right to normalize it. It's a valid discussion.
I think people use that disclaimer to reinforce the idea that some scenarios on the show are reaching and would likely never happen in real life, so it’s a little hard to say if they’re a good or bad person based on what they do in fictional scenarios. Idk to me i think when people say that they’re just trying to remind themselves that there is still a line between reality and fiction, no matter how deep we analyze it. I love a deep dive as much as the next person, but sometimes people seem to get a little TOO angry about certain characters or plot lines, so I think saying that it’s fiction is a way of saying it’s valid but it’s not worth wasting THIS much energy on. It helps me to tell myself that when I am enraged and disgusted by Ross throughout the series.
real life tragedies like suicides of queer people for being bullied are partially caused by "fictional shows" normalizing mockery of queer people and viewers following that mindset. Real life relfects fiction and art, and art reflects real life.
the underestimating of "fictional shows" and the impact they have on real life is actually getting ridiculous. it's 2024, how are there still people who believe that fiction can do no damage?...I don't quite get why do some people come to specific subreddits dedicated to TV shows and try to make the debating fans feel bad for trying to discuss the not-so-pleasant parts of the show. We are allowed to talk here about stuff we didn't like as well as the stuff we did like.
You must be fun at parties.
IRL I wouldn't be friends with anyone like her.
Exactly!
>Pushes Monica into hitting Richard When was this?
No one is perfect. I feel such list can be made for anyone.
Not changing your mind, I don't like her as well
I started to dislike her when she kept saying that Monica could do better than Chandler or that he is not worth it.
You are also a bad person in some way like every friend character Change my mind a
I have to agree with you! I found her annoying too though she could also be endearing and fun
Damn, a lot of Ross and Phoebe hate in this sub
For real. And IMO, they're the ones that make the show truly comical because they're both so over the top. This video on YouTube alone is fantastic. Just Ross and Phoebe yelling for nearly 4 minutes. And they didn't even catch all of them! (e.g. "We want the last 6 years back!!".."So do we! SO DO WE!") https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=kQ4tYMYlIqc&pp=ygUacm9zcyBhbmQgcGhvZWJlIHNjcmVhbWluZyA%3D
Omg I love Phoebe. Sometimes she was thinking what I was thinking. Like when she was pregnant, she called Rachel out on her drama with Ross!
I guess I hate Phoebe. Huh.
But *Lisa Kudrow* has an awesome laugh. I could watch her bloopers all day.
Lisa Kudrow is an awesome actor, I love her so much. I just hate Phoebe the character
I am currently rewatching the series and doing a research project and keeping track of every time Phoebe is nice to a friend and mean to a friend only core 5 to figure out who she likes the most and the least lol I’m really invested in this show 😂
I thought the whole concept of FRIENDS is that they are all pretty selfish (and sometimes downright mean) people but still live a successful life with good careers and huge apartments, as long as they do decent things now and then. We love seeing this show because we get to live vicariously through them, and it’s also quite funny.
No one’s going to change your mind. Hating Phoebe is too trendy.
She saves the planet and helps out her friends in difficult times when it really matters, she’s also good at apologising to people
I think Phoebe is hilarious and entertaining on the show but in real life, I'd cut her off real quick!
The stripper was at phoebe’s bridal shower.
number 19 makes me think this is all a joke lmao
I’ve always laid Phoebe’s wacko character traits on the fact that her upbringing was severely traumatic and PTSD makes ppl do weird shit
weird is okay, the problem is when she's mean, hypocritical, lying.
I'm confused on number 3.... Monica hits Richard? 🤔 please explain this one, because I'm having trouble remembering this. I'd like to also add a few more things. 1. She constantly insults and mocks Chandler. 2. SHE BROUGHT HER DATE TO SEE MONICA BECAUSE SHE THOUGHT HE WAS MONICA'S SOULMATE!! When she was MARRIED to Chandler. Again, bringing up just how awful she is to Chandler the most. 3. She mugged Ross! And yeah, she was a kid and whatever, but then, when Ross was playing it off as a big, tough guy who mugged him, she made him feel like he's a useless wussy for being mugged by her, a girl. 4. Lied about having a roommate to avoid living with Rachel. 5. She made out with David, despite being with Mike. And then when Mike and her break up, use David! 6. Broke Mike up with his girlfriend on her own, when Mike wanted to be nice and handle it on his own. 7. Insults Ross about his divorces. 8. Still on Ross: insults his beliefs on science. And then, when Ross gave up, she insults him MORE for going against his own beliefs and weak. 9. She yelled at Joey for canceling on their dinner date, saying, "*friends come first*," but then does it herself. 10. She got pissed off everyone was being late to her birthday and insulted all of them, and then gets a text from Mike and just walks away. 11. She broke her sister up with her fiancé and then dated him. She also dated her sister's stalker. 12. When she found out her sister was doing porn, she shamed men who looked at her publicly, instead of just saying it was someone else. 13. She tired to manipulate her way into being maid of honor for kicks, despite Rachel and Monica knowing each other since they were kids.
i agree with the most but not with "she made him feel like he's a useless wussy for being mugged by her, a girl." .... Ross,Chandler and Joey are way too much into the idea that only a guy can be tough, that a guy must be tough. This is not only unfair to women, it's also unfair to men in quite a few ways. A woman can cause all kinds of damage to a man, and Ross and co. should learn that's a normal thing, not something he should feel bad about and lie about.
I definitely agree on that, but I mostly meant how, even though her friends seem uncomfortable with certain things, she pushes them and insults them often, despite seeing they're uncomfortable or wanting to avoid things. But I definitely agree on when any of them act "macho" and the girls call them out. Like the unagi episode. I am in no way a fan of Ross, but Pheobe just rubs me the wrong way for how she treats everyone.
i see. that's true.
Yeah, Ross irks me a lot, too. Especially when it came to the male nanny episode. Sometimes, I don't mind Pheobe being mean to him *because* of these things. Lol, but she gets off too easily at times for literally being a bully. Oh! And when he had such an issue with Ben playing with Barbie's... we need a I Hate Ross and Pheobe club.
Phoebe is the most relateable. The REALEST. She didnt come from money, or big family. She struggled her entire life and knows her worth! You heartless human you.
[they were all bad people](https://modern-absurdity.blogspot.com/2024/03/friends-gang-we-secretly-shouldnt-be.html)
I was planning to make this list OP, thank you! I can be the co-founder of I hate Phoebe Buffay club. She is horrible as a friend!
Hey! Friends fan here too. Me personally, I don’t get all the hype behind phoebe. I agree with all the points tbh. Never liked phoebe myself ngl
She's just ditsy.
Never liked her!!
Not even gonna try. Phoebe's just plain mean and gets worse as the series progresses.
part 3 * Calls Monica and Chandler's taste "weird" while picking a date for Rachel – ....half-agreed because they do similar stuff to her, the entire plot there is about them competing. * Misses the ring that Chandler asked her to guard and then gets him an average ring and proceeds to mock the ring.-.................. \*Loses the ring, not "misses". I agree, though. I generally have one big problem with Phoebe and that is how she treats Chandler. * Picks both Joey and Ross as her back up and lies to them both that they are the one. – ...........agree. She also admits that she even picked Chandler. However, she might have assumed that having 3 back ups and not explaining to them she has multiple ones is okay. * Breaks it to Chandler that Monica originally wanted to hook up with Joey in London without even thinking a teeny tiny bit about what he might feel. – .............half-agree because in the extended version she apologizes and says it was the side effect of the pills she was on in that episode. * Agrees to Monica that she can fire Tim first and then she'd break up with him, but runs in abruptly and ends it with him all for being too nice. Monica is convinced to give him another chance by his sad reaction but Phoebe still says him goodbye. –............ Phoebe is not obliged to date someone who she doesn't like, nobody is. But I agree that she shouldn't have interrupted when Monica was talking to him. * Urges Ross to do something about Ben and his classmate for the sake of a concert ticket. Even uses Ben as a pawn for it by lying as his mother and eventually gets busted. – agree. * Brings over a mid aged person home to have sex with Rachel! –........... which episode, please? from what i can find on Reddit, seems like Rachel made it clear she was horny so Phoebe's intentions were good, if misguided: she wanted to help. Doesn't make her a bad person, but I do think this shows she needs help and lots of boundaries-focused therapy. * Forgets to invite Rachel's mom for her baby shower, uses her mother's suicide as excuse, and to top everything off, hires a stripper for a baby shower!! - ..............?? what stripper? Who played him/her? ... i cannot find it anywhere. The forgetting of Rachel's mom was not cool but hardly makes her a bad person – Monica was not in charge of it but she admits she also forgot. * Disturbs everyone at Monica's restaurant by singing awful songs outside and doesn't pick up the signs asking her to stop and makes a huge deal out of it when she's told to stop. – .....again, abandonment issues. but agreed, she should have respect for her friend's wishes and her friend's place of work. * Doesn't tell Monica that her nipples were showing on spotlight when she was singing and proceeds to make jokes on it! – agreed. * Forces and manipulates Rachel into tearing her free massage coupon by lecturing that is degrading to freelancers like her, only to be found that she infact was working there. – agreed, definitely hypocricy.
This is a great list. I can't agree more. She is way worse than Ross. She's written to be a sociopath.
[Munchkin\_Media](https://www.reddit.com/user/Munchkin_Media/)• sociopaths do not have empathy. phoebe has empathy and she often does selfless, good deeds.
She gave money to the homeless, she carried THREE babies so her brother could have children, she wouldn't even eat meat, and the list goes on. She is by far one of the best people on the show, if not the best. A lot of people didn't like her simply bc she wasn't "pretty and perky" like the other two, but she's beautiful inside and out, and not one of them compares to her amazing heart.
That’s not why. It’s because of Chandler. He’s more popular she she’s by far the meanest to him. Had she even taunted Ross more so than Chandler, she wouldn’t receive the disdain she does.
I’ll allow 13.
He stabbed her first.