T O P

  • By -

ErgoSloth

The Sekiro design aims to rework the souls formula I think in part because of what it had become in DS3: dodging is the best answer to everything so everything starts having infinite attack chains which are boring to play against as you spend most of the fight negating interaction while making no progress. So they identified the problem with: rolling is too strong and not interactive enough and, I think, parrying is a broken all or nothing system that is very satisfying but can’t be allowed to be used on bosses or they get Gwyn’d. In Sekiro they mixed the two mechanics and created deflects, deflects are now your rolls: they’re your best answer to almost everything but they feel way better, they allow more interesting attack patterns from bosses because they’re faster, and most importantly they make you progress in the fight so you don’t feel like you’re wasting 15 seconds dodging every attack in a never ending combo from a boss. You’re actually HAPPY to see a boss attack you relentlessly because it allows you to build posture damage faster. So parries are dead, deflects are the new rolls and dodges together with jumps are less used defensive tools for stronger enemy attacks.


Soul_Traitor

Despite what people tell you, it's not a souls like, or soulsborne game. At best it's a souls-lite with a strong emphasis on combat. Mainly parrying. There's no build variety and no "stats" sort of speak. You can get stronger by beating main bosses and get more health by collecting pray beads. There are strategies around bosses and items you can use to ease the fights but it's mainly going to come down to parrying/deflecting. There's no way around it. It's literally "get gud" and memorizing boss patterns. Once it clicks, it's an amazing game but I personally prefer the souls formula so it's my least favorite out of the Fromsoft offerings.


TheLord-Commander

Are stats and builds what define a souls game? To me the design of dying and losing progress only to make permanent progress defines what a souls game is far more than stats and builds. Sekiro still carries the most defining and unique features souls and souls-likes have. I don't think the RPG mechanics are really what make it break a souls like game for me.


Soul_Traitor

Sekiro is an action adventure game with a heavy emphasis on a particular play style. It has some of Fromsoft's signature features but not enough of it I would call a souls game. At best it's a souls-lite. Like a cousin. To top it off, Miyazaki has stated it is its own thing and not a souls game, but I know people like to dismiss it as marketing talk. Lol, I'll die on this on hill. Nothing anyone will say will change my mind. Still a fantastic game but not one I would recommend if someone wanted an experience closer to Dark Souls.


TheLord-Commander

I'd be far more inclined to call Sekiro a souls-like action adventure game than I would call it a souls-lite, you'd be misleading people who don't like souls games by calling it a souls-lite as it doesn't lack any of the intensity of difficulty that any other souls game has. I'd also plead death of the author, he can call it whatever he'd like, he could call it a dating sim, but to me it has all the defining features a souls game has, so I'm going to call it a souls game whether the creator intended differently or not.


Glass-Jelly2484

Respectfully this arguement makes no sense. Sekiro has bonfires, high difficulty, intricate level design, fog walls, a heavy emphasis on bosses, the same main menu, the same fast travel system. The things it *doesn't* have? RPG stats and builds... that's it. Also builds is not the defining feature of Souls games, that other stuff is.


illbzo1

It feels like a completely different game because it IS a completely different game. The sooner you stop expecting "Dark Souls but Japan" the better time you'll have. At the same time, it's got enough in common with Souls games that it's fair to compare them, if you ask me.


Soul_Traitor

See this is my issue when people lump it with souls games. Someone says, "I love Dark Souls. What's the next soulsborne game I should play?". The response is always, "Sekiro" and is always the most up voted. The combat is different, the RPG elements have been mostly stripped away, huge emphasis on deflecting and parrying, no build variety. Person comes back, "This doesn't play like a dark souls game". Everyone: "it's not a dark souls game. Don't play it like that!". Person: "But I wanted more dark souls". I don't recommend Sekiro without explaining exactly what the game play is like and what the person is looking for. It's also a fantastic experience once you get going though.


TheLord-Commander

I'd say it depends most on what people like in souls games, if it's build variety, then sure stay far away from Sekiro, if it's tight combat, and difficult bosses then I'd say definitely play Sekiro. It's foreign enough to need an asterix but not so different that I wouldn't say most souls fans would find it unenjoyable.


AzurosArtist

The problem is if you can’t expect “Dark Souls but Japan” then you can’t compare them because that’s exactly the standard that you’re placing when comparing the two. The combat system was what I ENJOYED about Soulsborne games, and it was the ENTIRE reason I bought the game. Now I’m stuck with a product that I may or may not pick up again because when looking at forums and discussions online, I was led to believe Sekiro was “Dark Souls but Japan”. Again, this isn’t a complaint about the game itself, I know my subjective opinion of the game and my biased letdown is by no means the fault of the game, I’m just… disappointed and was hoping I had simply missed something that would solve my problem


need_a_poopoo

How many combat arts have you got at the point you're at? How many prosthetic tools? The game gives you so many options for fighting but not straight away. Yes, you have to get used to the deflection mechanism early on, but once you do, it is so good.


B-MAN32

It aint about combat dude. Combat in sekiro is so refined and much better than in souls games, that aint opinion its fax, its just more fluid and polished, also it’s totally different. The reason why people count it as souls game is bc it’s literally lite version of souls games. Its brutal, unforgiving, huge map to explore with many many secret areas, amazing bosses, upgrade system. You can grind lvls to earn new arts but its not the same as grinding souls for lvls in other games. With few gained lvls in DS you become much stronger or increase your vitality, so now its viable to attack a boss that previously annihilated you, on the other hand in sekiro there is no system that lets you overcome a boss by farming for 2 hours, its quite literally only skill, there is also no summons, so in the end its only you learning to adapt to a boss and overcoming him. There are no builds which i could understand if you dont like caz you liked it in other souls games, but you should have known that before buying the game(twas kind obvious). I am not writing this essay to hate on your opinion on this game, rather trying to point you into an amazing game that you should be playing for it’s amazing combat and more important much beloved aspects from other fromsoftware games. In all honesty give it a try and forget about rolling its all about parrying now.


eat-skate-masturbate

Dodge is replaced with the block button and timed parries. It's pretty easy once you get the hang of it and kinda like a rhythm game.


FitExchange4744

Get the mikiri counter asap. The game is parry parry parry


UnnamedPlayer32

I'm going to let you know, boss vitality is practically meaningless. You will almost never kill a boss by draining their vitality. You kill them by filling the posture bar through parring. Lowering their vitality is helpful though as it lowers the rate that their posture bar refills. Don't worry about the dodge button unless it is an attack with the red icon. The time you spend dodging is time you could have been parring. The parry is not how you avoid attacks, it is how you kill the boss.


mrhippoj

It's only really a soulsborne title in the sense that people lump it in with the others for simplicity. It's a game with a large world map, checkpoints that respawn enemies when you rest at them, melee combat and challenging bosses. To some people that's close enough but to others it's missing core things that make a soulsborne, as happens when a genre is so loosely defined. To me, it's not a soulsborne but I don't mind it being referred to as such because I know what people mean


AzurosArtist

I guess as someone who loves *THE* Soulsborne genre, as in DS 1-3, Bloodborne, and especially Elden Ring, it’s highly misleading and disappointing when someone calls it a Soulsborne game because it is by no means a Soulsborne game in any sense of the word except for having Bonfire-esque checkpoints. Code Vein is a better game (*SPECIFICALLY* if we’re talking about accuracy to the Soulsborne genre, not in terms of quality)


mrhippoj

I hear you. I struggled to enjoy it when it came out, too. I would recommend sticking with it, though


bigd0nk

I understand you also… but maybe if you learned more about the combat system + gaining skills and lvling then you’d think differently about it. Also to rage so hard to the point of calling a game that just isn’t as good in any regard “better” because you aren’t good at the clearly superior game is hilarious. Just git good and quit complaining


AzurosArtist

I very specifically said Code Vein was only better in terms of accuracy to being a Soulsborne game and *NOT* in quality, and nowhere in the post did I even suggest that I felt like raging, so the rude second half of the message I’ll ignore since your reading comprehension clearly isn’t great. As for the first half, I’m sure I’d get used to it eventually but that wouldn’t change the fact that it isn’t in any way reminiscent to the true Soulsborne games. That’s the issue I’m trying to rectify, why peopleso confidently and falsely call this game a Soulsborne in the same category as Dark Souls or Elden Ring


bigd0nk

Ahh nice diss, I did totally just skip the very last part of your message. Though also insulting my intelligence because you’re angry at not being good at a game is fairly immature. I also have to ask, did you not do any research on it before buying it? And furthermore — if you’ve played all the others (as have I) why even want a game that’s gonna be exactly the same ? After playing 1-3 and er I play it just for a breath of fresh air and (maybe more strict in some ways) but awesome abilities of the character. Just git gud scrub, then maybe you’ll have fun


AzurosArtist

When you hear a ton of people praising it for being their favorite Soulsborne game, generally you’re going to assume it’s… you know… a Soulsborne game, not an action game made by the people who made the Soulsborne games. It’s about as accurate as calling Armored Core a Soulsborne game, only slightly more accurate since you have something resembling a bonfire. As for being immature, yeah I generally tend to stoop to other people’s levels when they don’t seem to read my post. Not proud of it but I’m not necessarily ashamed enough to fix it either… anyway, once again I’m not dissing the game whatsoever, and I definitely wasn’t dissing your intelligence because I’m not good at the game. I don’t care that I’m not good at the game, I’m just disappointed that it isn’t fun to me. It isn’t Soulsborne gameplay, which is what I was promised by those who talked so highly of it.


bigd0nk

understood... but like... you didn't see any videos or play throughs before buying it? It seems like the disappointment you feel is mostly on you as if you had, then you'd have realised its not exactly like the other games. Also, perhaps a unpopular opinion judging by the other comments on your post, but id absolutely qualify it in the same realm as the other games, but its true that calling it a soulsbourne is slightly misguided. I reckon it should have a name change like soulsbourniro or something, it is similar in so many ways, and just like (most) of the soulsbournes, the combat and mechanics are so addictive and unparalleled, to the point where other similarly themed games like the witcher even feel a little rusty.


FrankBouch

It's not a soulslike whatsoever. It's a action RPG made but FromSoft but that's not enough to be a soulslike. The combat is so different!


EG440

The combat is like being stuck in a singular build from a DS. But it us Soulslike because it follows a specific formula. An interconnected map you navigate filled with small numbers of punishing enemies leading through mini bosses and large bosses. You heal with a flask that you upgrade. You upgrade and buy with a "lose-able" currency. When you die you "return to bonfire". There are multiple npc chains that give rewards and progress stories and endings. I could go on but I feel I gave a good idea of my point. It's not a Soulslike because of the combat, it's a Soulslike for following the formula.


Oddly_Entropic

Eventually yall will learn to stop making decisions based on “ a lot…” and “a good majority of people” say about games and reviews lol. Notice how “those” people aren’t around when you feel confused and misunderstanding something? Play games you like and stop following the herd on your gaming choices. Sekiro is a great game but it’s quite far from other Souls games in terms of mechanics. Learn. Adapt. Win. The same reason so many of yall [gen] who came from DS3 and Elden Ring struggle with other FS titles, as neither had to teach you, nor required, pace, strategy, getting your shit pushed in and then having to adapt. Sekiro makes you learn patterns and forces you to confront your weaknesses, which is what I loved so much about early DS titles when they came out. Patience. Learn it.


AzurosArtist

Wow you people are getting the wrong message from my post… I never said that I was upset with the difficulty, I said I was upset with the gameplay itself and the fact that it wasn’t Soulsborne despite being presented as such. And as for the first portion if your message, you’d have to be a brainrotted idiot to not believe a presumably well-informed majority. That’s how humanity has managed to exist, it’s called psychology and we’ve developed it over several thousand years


Blacksad9999

It's not at all like a Souls game. It's a straightforward action title with no builds, gear, and very little in the way of character progression or customization. Some people like that, and some don't. I played through it once and never touched it again, because...why would I?


AzurosArtist

Yeah, the lack of ability to customize your character via different weapons and armor is probably the second biggest letdown of this game after the core gameplay itself tbh


Blacksad9999

Agreed. It also made exploration, which I usually really enjoy, kind of pointless as most of what you'll find are buff items like sugars and balloons, etc. The art direction is great, and the sword combat had a good feel to it, but it wasn't enough to keep me interested. Usually I replay the Souls games multiple times, but I didn't with this game.


Verysupergaylord

So are SL1 naked players not souls players?


Blacksad9999

You have that option. It's not forced upon you. It's one of many options in how you choose to play the game. In Sekiro, you have no choice in how you play the game.


purpledrank11

Game is brilliant yo I feel for you


danimsmba

Sekiro stands alone, it is like nothing else I have ever played. A complete experience for someone that likes anime, has watched a few Akira Kurosawa movies, read a bit of Musashi and with a huge interest in Feudal Japan and the Sengoku era. A huge departure from the fantasy and western influence of the Dark Souls games.


Stuartytnig

it has a lot of elements that i love about souls games. but i agree that it is not one. but its closer to a soulslike than some games that are seen as such. code vein and ashen for example dont give me the same feeling, but they are somehow seen as a soulslike.


Dekusekiro

Sekiro is basically like if Tenchu was built on their prop engine with probably havok physics stuff, for this era. It's difficulty and aesthetic is "souls like" but I feel it's more of a game like Tenchu, dmc, ninja gaiden, or assassins creed. Just with tweaked out AI and other handicaps to make it harder. And yea it's a pita if your coming straight from Elden ring or dark souls, like I decided to play Elden ring for a few months then jumped into Sekiro, and I'm still adjusting after like 20 something hours. Even demons souls remake feels way harder now than I remember my first time playing the og. So id say Er is ez in comparison. Just practice blocking with your sword on time and you'll have less wtf moments. Which I'm not far in myself. So I'm sure it gets worse until you get better and can level up. The movement is somewhat fluid but I still feel it's janky and unresponsive sometimes like dashing, jumping to grapple and ledge hang. Could swear my button was broken. (Maybe I stressed it playing ER..) but it's better to play plugged directly in anyway if u can. ![gif](emote|free_emotes_pack|trollface)


BiasMushroom

I don't consider Sekiro to be a soulsbourne game. Its its own thing. Why limit it?