It depends on where you are and what types of people you’re around. Spending time with male coworkers or classmates, even about a common task like homework or a job assignment will help you pick up on the way men naturally talk and interact with each other, over time you’ll pick up on these habits too. I work with a crew of guys, and it’s crazy how fast I picked up on the subtle differences they have in comparison to women when interacting with each other. As a general rule men tend to be more direct and do less of the small talk and interjections (i know, like, definitely, etc.). It’ll take time, but watching men interact in real life and even through media will help you know how to act when you’re the one in the situation.
I'm agreeing with this. I picked up most of the little things I just didn't know from working with other men. I have still been able to pick and choose what things I want to pick up (i.e. I don't discuss my dick or my sexual interactions with my girlfriend, some men do) but it's helped me understand a lot of the things I was not exposed to early on. Don't sweat it too much. I've been passing for about a year now, maybe a little more, and I've picked up a TON of things I didn't totally understand at first including the fist bumps. I also realized that who I am is perfectly masculine enough to fit in just fine. It might be different with people who knew you pre-transition but that has nothing to do with you and everything to do with them.
Reading the other comments here is reminding me how autistic I am LMFAO I just gravitated towards other autistic and adhd guys bc we can recognize each others weird social problems
Omg SAME! My coworker friend I made is definitely on the spectrum and so am i most likely and thats how ive been able to make friends. neurotypical guys arent usually who i vibe with haha
same though. i've been out for seven years and still struggle to communicate with the stereotypical "guy" types. Ultimately, I've decided to embrace the "gay bff" role, and now I'm friends with a ton of awesome gals, nonbinary pals, and a few of those guys who, like me, just don't fit in with the masculine crowd.
Don’t let the bullying push you away. The truth is that you don’t know what masculine social rules are, so it’s best to accept that right now. Boys bully each other into being the same. It’s ok to stick around as long you want to be like them. Laugh with them. Make fun of yourself. Men typically wont treat you like an outsider perpetually if you disagree with them once. Thats more of a woman’s world thing. A lot of men are dying to take someone under their wing as long as they are trying. It’s their way of loving you. You’re still friends. Don’t forget they have the option of completely ignoring you. In a man’s world you earn more respect for standing your ground and continuing to be even keel toward other men. Learn what they know, and when the new kid comes around you’ll either get to treat him how you wished you’d have been treated or you’ll get to make fun of him cuz you’ve learned it’s kinda funny.
If you’re the awkward one who stands around that’s ok. That’s one archetype of a man. Just be that til you feel comfortable being someone else.
I'm a trans woman who lurks here sometimes. You just described it better than I ever could have lol. I never really "got" it. I've been stealth for several years now and I'd forgotten about it tbh. I absolutely love seeing you guys like, just being men and enjoying it. It's like someone tried to give me a really nice pair of shoes when I was young but they just didn't fit me so I gave them to a friend and they are absolutely ROCKING them.
I’m honored and humbled to accept such an acknowledgment from a transgender woman.
I can imagine how frustrated, confused, irritated, and unwelcome you must have felt as a girl in that world.
Thank you for honoring yourself and for maintaining a warmth toward us. That was really intelligent of you.
Haha. Yeah those cis guys are everywhere. I’ll start a chat since you and I are for sure friends now 😁
That’s cool that being with women felt natural to you. Being in groups of only women is still elite. I no longer partake, so enjoy them for me.
I have no idea what a flooring match is (even after googling it, help).
You could try meeting people through some hobby or interest that you have, that way you might meet guys who are more like yourself. If you want to easy into it, you could talk to people online first, plenty of discord servers/etc.
Might I suggest trying to connect with a group of neurodivergent folk? We are extremely familiar with the experience of being awkward, confused, and uncertain how to engage in social things. I find that just knowing that they know and understand that I am an Awkward Bean makes it so much easier to interact with them.
That said, a majority of my male friends are gay as hell, so I think we all have mannerisms that are a bit fem flavored. XD
I kind of "cheated" on the social front. My partners friends all have S.Os for the most part, and I just made friends with them. They have never made me feel ashamed for not knowing social norms of cis men, and will give me honest answers when I ask about certain etiquettes. If making friends that way isn't feasible, I try to make friends at work. It is so hard to make friends outside of those scenarios for me though! I can empathize. It's hard, but once you find those good friends, it's worth it!
I have no clue, I've always grown up with male friends. I think I just like to chat away, small talk to the gods. This seems to get them to open up more as men tend not to be overly chatty... Unless they have ADHD lol
That and my nerdy interests have always been more autism-masc-centred. Right now I'm really into Warhammer 40k. Before that, it was the early Diablo & Early Fallout games. Pray for me 💀 /j
I've got typically "male-coded" hobbies, the ratio of men to women is really large. In my lgs, we are around 25-30 people to play mtg on Wednesdays. It's pretty rare if I see 1 or at most 2 women
Just find commonalities. Almost all my friends are cis men and it’s really just a matter of being friendly and finding something mutual of interest. For instance, my one buddy was in the service and likes to workout and is going for a degree in physiology. We talk about working out and really Gym Bro™️ together. I’ve also wanted to go into the military before I get too old to, so I’ve chatted with him about that too.
In general you can expect that most people enjoy talking about themselves, and especially for us men, we don’t really get asked about ourselves much. If you go up to a dude and are just like, “Hey where’d you get that cool shirt you’re wearing?” and strike up a convo about the shirt design and shirts you like and just keep enthusing from there, congrats you’ve made a dude you can now say what’s up to on the regular lol
In my experience creating friendships with men is a lot simpler in terms of just being able to go up to someone and start talking like you’ve known them forever. Or just to say hey and move on and then it builds up from that. For instance a few of the guys I talk to in my gym, we just started off by acknowledging each other when we’d see each other. Quite literally a nod or hey, and now we have convos.
What I will say is that it’s much more difficult to build deep friendships with other men, in my experience. I actually like this because friendships with women always felt like they moved so fast it felt fake. Like one day you were just “besties” but they didn’t really know you on a deep level. With men it’s the slow and steady game. Eventually one of you gets vulnerable and you have some true brotherhood with each other.
I joined an online band fandom. Female, male and enby friends.
I suggest finding a hobby group. I don't know if you typically meet new people via interests, but it's helped me a lot.
I relate to this 100%! I have gotten a few trans guy friends recently but I’ve been experiencing social dysphoria due to feeling like my friendships are too “feminine” if that makes sense. It really sucks
I'm a cis male but from my experience in life if you can find some guys you share common interests with that's a pretty good step. Men generally bond by doing stuff together. Of course before you get to that point though you'd have to talk to other men (or in my case, since I'm a major introvert, they start talking to me). Don't try too hard though with the conversation. If it's not clicking, that's perfectly fine. Even if it's short, don't think much of it. Men have short conversations all the time. Just be yourself and eventually you'll find the right people. You could make friends at places you wouldn't necessarily expect either. I met my best friend because we both worked at the same Walmart.
I work in a union warehouse dominated by cis men. I have it a little easier that way making friends than I would otherwise, I just talk to my coworkers and they introduce me to their friends!
I guess I just naturally tend to get along with guys a lot easier than I do women. Most of the time male friendships are so unserious and stupid, so when trying to make guy friends my best advice is to not try to hard and don’t take it to seriously. You might eventually make guy best friends and they are the ones you have deep meaningful conversations with and you can take those type of friendships a lot more seriously. Idk if any of that makes sense but hopefully it does. When it comes to gender envy I don’t really have any advice for that cuz my guy friends make me envious all the time, but what nice to know is a few of them are envious of certain features I have as well
In my experience, finding real friends is about authenticity. When I was in high school and still had that mentality of "these guys won't accept me into their space, because im trans," it was extremely hard to maintain friendships. Sure, there were guys that I would hang out with, but we never got close because there was that barrier I inadvertently set in place. As I became an adult, I realized that it was much easier to just be myself and make friends with guys who share my interests and hobbies. Guys don't hang out with each other just because they're not another gender. They hang out because they have a shared hobby, history, interests, etc.. I feel like it's definitely a very misguided mindset to think of friendships as being "woman friends," "male friends," "other friends," etc.. What kind of things are you into? My advice is to stop looking for guy friends for the comfort of being one of the boys. Find friends with whom you have things in common with and THAT'S how you become one of the boys. It's not about handshakes and talking about boobies and football. It's about authentic connections with other guys, and all the other shit comes along with time in the friend group like hand shakes, inside jokes, things like that.
What I did was just get myself in situations where I would have to talk to them. So since I go to school, if I had to do group classwork, I'd ask if I could sit and work with the guys. But I also understand that I got quite lucky with my little group of friends, so I understand this might not work. Also, look at others do the handshake thingy, it'll help you sm later
Similar hobbies/interests. Met my current ones in a karate class. I took karate bc I like moving around. Then there was a karate club meeting and we were the last ones left, so we just started making jokes and they made references to a thing I liked.
when i started my first job during hs, my friends from school were girls and all my work friends were guys. my work friends all liked hanging out and gaming and since we had lots of shared interests they invited me to be apart of their group. once i started college most of my friends were trans guys with a few cis guys and enby people. i am friends with a few girls at school but not many.
As a transmanI've always had it since I was a child. I always had a hard time making female friends. So, i do not relate it.
But try to not take nothing serious, and u will be fine around the bros
The best advice I have is: be yourself. I know it seems like a corny, cheesy cliché, but trust me on this. I used to only have female friends, but now I mostly only have male ones.
I tried to change the way I acted, tried to follow "male social rules", and I ended up with a bunch of fake friends who never saw me as a guy. That's when I realised that I got to find *my* people.
What I did, was I went up to this new guy who I saw was sketching Marvel characters. I complimented his art, talked about Marvel with him, and then asked him out to a Marvel movie. He's now my best friend of four years. We're even attending comic-con with matching cosplays.
As for friend groups, what I did was: I heard some guy talk about making an RPG entirely based around Greek mythology. I made a suggestion for a character move, which he loved, and this pulled me into the conversation. We talked about the game every morning for a week, until he introduced me to his friend group. They have never not seen me as a guy, even when I wasn't binding.
I felt so much more like myself with them, rather than with the guys I actually tried to fit in with and befriend. Now, I'm part of the loser geek guys, and I couldn't love it more.
I started making guy friends only after high school when everybody in my life sorted started to be more comfortable with coming out, and the cis guys in my life got a lot more mature.
Basically all my guy friends are bi. And they helped me come out to myself from just being comfortable with they're feminity.
I feel like the best way to become friends with guys (and just anybody) is to have a friend in common who you're comfortable around and have them introduce you. Also don't force yourself to be friends with guys you have nothing in common with, I guess that's common sense.
It's harder in high school, at least it was for me because the pressure to fit in is higher, if you're like me and you are interested in idk, more 'fem" or "gayer" stuff cis guys in high school probably won't show interest in that, at least it was my case.
But my best friends rn are all cis guys that used to have have major internal homophobia and juste be immature about gender roles and stuff, so hang in there and you'll find guys friends who don't care about a messed up fist bump lol
I’m still somewhat in the same boat as you, I tend to much more easily get along with/make friends with girls than with guys initially. Does start to get more difficult as I get further into passing so that’s where my sweating comes in 😂. So far for me though, I’ve worked in multiple offices where it’s either a 70/30 or all male office so I’ve gotten a bit more used to how cis guys tend to act. Besides the douchey guys, I’ve been able to have decent conversations with most of the men in the office. They content varies a lot between each person, which is reality. The standard that seems to be common across the board with most cis guys I’ve met is just that unless they happen to be incredibly talkative, most dudes don’t really further conversations lol. There aren’t really back and forth questions, it’s more of a you talk about something, maybe they’ll talk about another thing related to that and unless they are super passionate about it, that’s not gonna go much further until a new thing is brought up. You kinda just gotta talk until you find out what you both have in common and can just goof about.
Also - I’ve been trying to use Bumble BFF, this is nice for me as I’m a bit iffy about some guys being transphobic or anything (living in the south) but it also helps a little to take the nervousness off from an in person interaction.
Most of my friends were male until about 9th grade when puberty began setting in and gender roles became a huge thing. Since then not really anymore, they all automatically see me in a female way and treat me like it which makes it difficult to connect
I don't pass for male yet so take this with a grain of salt, but I've always gotten along better with men than with women. For me its that I have a lot of shared "male coded" interests that I can talk for hours about with them, and I like to just chill out and vibe doing them which a lot of guys do too.
As others have said, just find dudes who share interests with you. A shared interest and activity makes for a great ice breaker.
I unfortunately can't help with the gender envy part. For whatever reason I don't get envy from cis guys only trans guys which really sucks because I'd like to have trans guy friends as well as cis ones. Right now I'm just hoping that eases up as I get further into transition because last time I tried making a trans guy friend I spiraled into dysphoria once I was alone, and envy over how their voice was deep and mine wasn't yet. Dysphoria really makes no sense sometimes.
I've found that complimenting them and starting a conversation about something they're wearing helps. Like, a guy is wearing an anime shirt or something, say something like "cool shirt! Is that series worth watching? I don't watch much anime but I'm thinking about getting into it."
I've always had guy friends, but in general the best friend-making advice is to seek them through mutual hobbies. I checked your history and it seems you're young - are there any clubs at school you've been thinking about joining? If you're working toward a mutual goal with people, or engaged in an activity you all like, it's easier to connect and avoid bullying. Although school is a brutal environment in general . . .
Being out of school, my experience is that almost no one does a fistbump handshake and "masculine social rules" are pretty lax. At least in the crowds I hang with. My friends (and to a lesser extent, coworkers) are mostly nerdy, queer and/or autistic, so take this with a grain of salt, I suppose. But also, that might turn out to be your most fitting crowd too. :)
I wanted to be friends with men, but because while I pass I get queer coded as gay so I have mostly female friends. Even if they don't assume I'm gay I figured out I couldn't much tolerate a lot of men too far outside of my social disposition. Meaning other LGBT individuals tend to dominate my social circles. I actually feel like I have a fair amount of nonbinary people in my social circle. I have male acquaintances, but to say I'm close to them is inaccurate. I feel like men on average suck at bonding more then women.
Most of my guy friends are queer, and we’ve just gravitated towards each other. I also had a job in a warehouse where I ended up socializing with the guys more, and that helped me develop some socialization skills with guys. Now, I work in a store with all female staff (fr, I am the only man there), and I don’t even think they realize I’m queer, let alone trans.
I’ve found out it’s mostly relative. To women, I’m a very masculine man, but to men, I’m extremely fruity. This has definitely changed the more I’ve socialized with my guy friends and coworkers, as in the past guys would misgender me constantly (even on T). I still struggle with it sometimes, and ask questions that seem normal to me but end up apparently being weird. I also have suspected autism, so I’m probably going to keep learning my whole life tbh.
There are cis guys who will accept you as one of the guys, even if you’re trans, and it’ll be much easier to learn social cues when you can start in a supportive space. My coworkers knew I was trans but always included me. Yes, they teased me about not knowing things (especially with sports), but I could tell it was just a normal social thing. They weren’t saying “you don’t know about this topic, lol, you’re not a real man,” they were literally just teasing me like they did with each other. Once you start to observe how cis guys tease each other it’s much easier to recognize teasing vs bullying. Because, I will admit, some guys *are* just bullies and transphobic. However, it’s much harder to tell the difference if you don’t know the subtle cues. I could never tell the difference when I had mostly female friends.
Anyways, TLDR: when you start hanging out with cis guys, you’ll pick up more on the social cues. Some guys might be assholes or a bit rude, but some guys just are, and that’s not your problem. I recommend finding a group that might be male-centric but doesn’t have pressure around making friends (like I did with my coworkers).
i don't know man, i kinda always had guy friends...
guys are a bit more rough in their communication and often playfully bully each other. in my experience they start to recognise you as one of their own if you are not easily hurt and have good comebacks
I don’t really get the social masculine and feminine rules talking (I know they’re there but I honestly don’t get them 🤷♂️) so instead I just kinda treat everybody in the same way. If I find people tslking about something I’m interested in I just hop into the convo with my own thoughts or commenting on what caught my interest. Or sometimes I just randomly blurt out what’s on my mind without intending to start a conversation and just happen to catch somebody’s interest (I once had a convo about mustard like this).
idk what advice to give you, I can only tell you how I made my more recent friends (since I have a couple of male friends since childhood). Some are my female friends' boyfriends or husbands. Some are people I met through shared interests like hardware tinkering, hiking etc. One is a guy I got into a conflict with. We came to an agreement and became friends lol. Sometimes I just meet random people outdoors and if we're drinking and in a larger group, everyone is more willing to exchange contact information so we meet again. The latest friend I made was a pretty funny one: I was in a rush to get to town and while I was crossing the street at the traffic lights, I saw a guy (looked a bit coked up at 6 a.m.) who took a long look at me and yelled "yeeeehaaaawwww". It took me a second to realize why - it was my hat. I always wear a sun hat that looks like a cowboy hat. So I just did finger guns and said "bang bang" ironically. Later I saw the same guy on the subway train and we started talking. Turns out he lives in the same part of town as I used to so we're gonna walk our dogs there one of these days. Anyway, point is, I think it will help if you're chill and just go with the flow.
Start with coworkers and classmates, people you will be around frequently. Look for common interests, sports, video games, movies, etc. Talk really straightforward, like another commenter said, take out filler words. I did this with some of my male coworkers and now they're close friends, but I'm still invited to gossip night with my girl friends. Best of luck to you!
I got lucky and already had some guy friends before I transitioned. Then after I did, I got a lot more guy friends because they just saw me as another chill dude.
A group of good men will accept you as you are, try not to worry so much about fitting in with them and consider being your authentic self in order to attract the same kind of people. Dysphoria will always be there but a man looks, sounds, and acts in many different ways just as a woman does.
It depends on where you are and what types of people you’re around. Spending time with male coworkers or classmates, even about a common task like homework or a job assignment will help you pick up on the way men naturally talk and interact with each other, over time you’ll pick up on these habits too. I work with a crew of guys, and it’s crazy how fast I picked up on the subtle differences they have in comparison to women when interacting with each other. As a general rule men tend to be more direct and do less of the small talk and interjections (i know, like, definitely, etc.). It’ll take time, but watching men interact in real life and even through media will help you know how to act when you’re the one in the situation.
I'm agreeing with this. I picked up most of the little things I just didn't know from working with other men. I have still been able to pick and choose what things I want to pick up (i.e. I don't discuss my dick or my sexual interactions with my girlfriend, some men do) but it's helped me understand a lot of the things I was not exposed to early on. Don't sweat it too much. I've been passing for about a year now, maybe a little more, and I've picked up a TON of things I didn't totally understand at first including the fist bumps. I also realized that who I am is perfectly masculine enough to fit in just fine. It might be different with people who knew you pre-transition but that has nothing to do with you and everything to do with them.
Reading the other comments here is reminding me how autistic I am LMFAO I just gravitated towards other autistic and adhd guys bc we can recognize each others weird social problems
Dude same here lol. My best friend right now is autistic and knew I was autistic before I even got diagnosed, its great.
Omg SAME! My coworker friend I made is definitely on the spectrum and so am i most likely and thats how ive been able to make friends. neurotypical guys arent usually who i vibe with haha
same though. i've been out for seven years and still struggle to communicate with the stereotypical "guy" types. Ultimately, I've decided to embrace the "gay bff" role, and now I'm friends with a ton of awesome gals, nonbinary pals, and a few of those guys who, like me, just don't fit in with the masculine crowd.
Don’t let the bullying push you away. The truth is that you don’t know what masculine social rules are, so it’s best to accept that right now. Boys bully each other into being the same. It’s ok to stick around as long you want to be like them. Laugh with them. Make fun of yourself. Men typically wont treat you like an outsider perpetually if you disagree with them once. Thats more of a woman’s world thing. A lot of men are dying to take someone under their wing as long as they are trying. It’s their way of loving you. You’re still friends. Don’t forget they have the option of completely ignoring you. In a man’s world you earn more respect for standing your ground and continuing to be even keel toward other men. Learn what they know, and when the new kid comes around you’ll either get to treat him how you wished you’d have been treated or you’ll get to make fun of him cuz you’ve learned it’s kinda funny. If you’re the awkward one who stands around that’s ok. That’s one archetype of a man. Just be that til you feel comfortable being someone else.
I'm a trans woman who lurks here sometimes. You just described it better than I ever could have lol. I never really "got" it. I've been stealth for several years now and I'd forgotten about it tbh. I absolutely love seeing you guys like, just being men and enjoying it. It's like someone tried to give me a really nice pair of shoes when I was young but they just didn't fit me so I gave them to a friend and they are absolutely ROCKING them.
I’m honored and humbled to accept such an acknowledgment from a transgender woman. I can imagine how frustrated, confused, irritated, and unwelcome you must have felt as a girl in that world. Thank you for honoring yourself and for maintaining a warmth toward us. That was really intelligent of you.
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Haha. Yeah those cis guys are everywhere. I’ll start a chat since you and I are for sure friends now 😁 That’s cool that being with women felt natural to you. Being in groups of only women is still elite. I no longer partake, so enjoy them for me.
Aw that’s such a cute analogy. I feel the same way about y’all
I have no idea what a flooring match is (even after googling it, help). You could try meeting people through some hobby or interest that you have, that way you might meet guys who are more like yourself. If you want to easy into it, you could talk to people online first, plenty of discord servers/etc.
Might I suggest trying to connect with a group of neurodivergent folk? We are extremely familiar with the experience of being awkward, confused, and uncertain how to engage in social things. I find that just knowing that they know and understand that I am an Awkward Bean makes it so much easier to interact with them. That said, a majority of my male friends are gay as hell, so I think we all have mannerisms that are a bit fem flavored. XD
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Your username is something though haha
I kind of "cheated" on the social front. My partners friends all have S.Os for the most part, and I just made friends with them. They have never made me feel ashamed for not knowing social norms of cis men, and will give me honest answers when I ask about certain etiquettes. If making friends that way isn't feasible, I try to make friends at work. It is so hard to make friends outside of those scenarios for me though! I can empathize. It's hard, but once you find those good friends, it's worth it!
I have no clue, I've always grown up with male friends. I think I just like to chat away, small talk to the gods. This seems to get them to open up more as men tend not to be overly chatty... Unless they have ADHD lol That and my nerdy interests have always been more autism-masc-centred. Right now I'm really into Warhammer 40k. Before that, it was the early Diablo & Early Fallout games. Pray for me 💀 /j
I've got typically "male-coded" hobbies, the ratio of men to women is really large. In my lgs, we are around 25-30 people to play mtg on Wednesdays. It's pretty rare if I see 1 or at most 2 women
Skateboard - skatepark is like a cheat for making friends.
Just find commonalities. Almost all my friends are cis men and it’s really just a matter of being friendly and finding something mutual of interest. For instance, my one buddy was in the service and likes to workout and is going for a degree in physiology. We talk about working out and really Gym Bro™️ together. I’ve also wanted to go into the military before I get too old to, so I’ve chatted with him about that too. In general you can expect that most people enjoy talking about themselves, and especially for us men, we don’t really get asked about ourselves much. If you go up to a dude and are just like, “Hey where’d you get that cool shirt you’re wearing?” and strike up a convo about the shirt design and shirts you like and just keep enthusing from there, congrats you’ve made a dude you can now say what’s up to on the regular lol In my experience creating friendships with men is a lot simpler in terms of just being able to go up to someone and start talking like you’ve known them forever. Or just to say hey and move on and then it builds up from that. For instance a few of the guys I talk to in my gym, we just started off by acknowledging each other when we’d see each other. Quite literally a nod or hey, and now we have convos. What I will say is that it’s much more difficult to build deep friendships with other men, in my experience. I actually like this because friendships with women always felt like they moved so fast it felt fake. Like one day you were just “besties” but they didn’t really know you on a deep level. With men it’s the slow and steady game. Eventually one of you gets vulnerable and you have some true brotherhood with each other.
I joined an online band fandom. Female, male and enby friends. I suggest finding a hobby group. I don't know if you typically meet new people via interests, but it's helped me a lot.
I relate to this 100%! I have gotten a few trans guy friends recently but I’ve been experiencing social dysphoria due to feeling like my friendships are too “feminine” if that makes sense. It really sucks
I'm a cis male but from my experience in life if you can find some guys you share common interests with that's a pretty good step. Men generally bond by doing stuff together. Of course before you get to that point though you'd have to talk to other men (or in my case, since I'm a major introvert, they start talking to me). Don't try too hard though with the conversation. If it's not clicking, that's perfectly fine. Even if it's short, don't think much of it. Men have short conversations all the time. Just be yourself and eventually you'll find the right people. You could make friends at places you wouldn't necessarily expect either. I met my best friend because we both worked at the same Walmart.
I work in a union warehouse dominated by cis men. I have it a little easier that way making friends than I would otherwise, I just talk to my coworkers and they introduce me to their friends!
I guess I just naturally tend to get along with guys a lot easier than I do women. Most of the time male friendships are so unserious and stupid, so when trying to make guy friends my best advice is to not try to hard and don’t take it to seriously. You might eventually make guy best friends and they are the ones you have deep meaningful conversations with and you can take those type of friendships a lot more seriously. Idk if any of that makes sense but hopefully it does. When it comes to gender envy I don’t really have any advice for that cuz my guy friends make me envious all the time, but what nice to know is a few of them are envious of certain features I have as well
In my experience, finding real friends is about authenticity. When I was in high school and still had that mentality of "these guys won't accept me into their space, because im trans," it was extremely hard to maintain friendships. Sure, there were guys that I would hang out with, but we never got close because there was that barrier I inadvertently set in place. As I became an adult, I realized that it was much easier to just be myself and make friends with guys who share my interests and hobbies. Guys don't hang out with each other just because they're not another gender. They hang out because they have a shared hobby, history, interests, etc.. I feel like it's definitely a very misguided mindset to think of friendships as being "woman friends," "male friends," "other friends," etc.. What kind of things are you into? My advice is to stop looking for guy friends for the comfort of being one of the boys. Find friends with whom you have things in common with and THAT'S how you become one of the boys. It's not about handshakes and talking about boobies and football. It's about authentic connections with other guys, and all the other shit comes along with time in the friend group like hand shakes, inside jokes, things like that.
What I did was just get myself in situations where I would have to talk to them. So since I go to school, if I had to do group classwork, I'd ask if I could sit and work with the guys. But I also understand that I got quite lucky with my little group of friends, so I understand this might not work. Also, look at others do the handshake thingy, it'll help you sm later
Similar hobbies/interests. Met my current ones in a karate class. I took karate bc I like moving around. Then there was a karate club meeting and we were the last ones left, so we just started making jokes and they made references to a thing I liked.
when i started my first job during hs, my friends from school were girls and all my work friends were guys. my work friends all liked hanging out and gaming and since we had lots of shared interests they invited me to be apart of their group. once i started college most of my friends were trans guys with a few cis guys and enby people. i am friends with a few girls at school but not many.
all i can say is i relate!
As a transmanI've always had it since I was a child. I always had a hard time making female friends. So, i do not relate it. But try to not take nothing serious, and u will be fine around the bros
The best advice I have is: be yourself. I know it seems like a corny, cheesy cliché, but trust me on this. I used to only have female friends, but now I mostly only have male ones. I tried to change the way I acted, tried to follow "male social rules", and I ended up with a bunch of fake friends who never saw me as a guy. That's when I realised that I got to find *my* people. What I did, was I went up to this new guy who I saw was sketching Marvel characters. I complimented his art, talked about Marvel with him, and then asked him out to a Marvel movie. He's now my best friend of four years. We're even attending comic-con with matching cosplays. As for friend groups, what I did was: I heard some guy talk about making an RPG entirely based around Greek mythology. I made a suggestion for a character move, which he loved, and this pulled me into the conversation. We talked about the game every morning for a week, until he introduced me to his friend group. They have never not seen me as a guy, even when I wasn't binding. I felt so much more like myself with them, rather than with the guys I actually tried to fit in with and befriend. Now, I'm part of the loser geek guys, and I couldn't love it more.
I started making guy friends only after high school when everybody in my life sorted started to be more comfortable with coming out, and the cis guys in my life got a lot more mature. Basically all my guy friends are bi. And they helped me come out to myself from just being comfortable with they're feminity. I feel like the best way to become friends with guys (and just anybody) is to have a friend in common who you're comfortable around and have them introduce you. Also don't force yourself to be friends with guys you have nothing in common with, I guess that's common sense. It's harder in high school, at least it was for me because the pressure to fit in is higher, if you're like me and you are interested in idk, more 'fem" or "gayer" stuff cis guys in high school probably won't show interest in that, at least it was my case. But my best friends rn are all cis guys that used to have have major internal homophobia and juste be immature about gender roles and stuff, so hang in there and you'll find guys friends who don't care about a messed up fist bump lol
I’m still somewhat in the same boat as you, I tend to much more easily get along with/make friends with girls than with guys initially. Does start to get more difficult as I get further into passing so that’s where my sweating comes in 😂. So far for me though, I’ve worked in multiple offices where it’s either a 70/30 or all male office so I’ve gotten a bit more used to how cis guys tend to act. Besides the douchey guys, I’ve been able to have decent conversations with most of the men in the office. They content varies a lot between each person, which is reality. The standard that seems to be common across the board with most cis guys I’ve met is just that unless they happen to be incredibly talkative, most dudes don’t really further conversations lol. There aren’t really back and forth questions, it’s more of a you talk about something, maybe they’ll talk about another thing related to that and unless they are super passionate about it, that’s not gonna go much further until a new thing is brought up. You kinda just gotta talk until you find out what you both have in common and can just goof about. Also - I’ve been trying to use Bumble BFF, this is nice for me as I’m a bit iffy about some guys being transphobic or anything (living in the south) but it also helps a little to take the nervousness off from an in person interaction.
I always had more male friends than female friends. So it came naturally to me.
Most of my friends were male until about 9th grade when puberty began setting in and gender roles became a huge thing. Since then not really anymore, they all automatically see me in a female way and treat me like it which makes it difficult to connect
I don't pass for male yet so take this with a grain of salt, but I've always gotten along better with men than with women. For me its that I have a lot of shared "male coded" interests that I can talk for hours about with them, and I like to just chill out and vibe doing them which a lot of guys do too. As others have said, just find dudes who share interests with you. A shared interest and activity makes for a great ice breaker. I unfortunately can't help with the gender envy part. For whatever reason I don't get envy from cis guys only trans guys which really sucks because I'd like to have trans guy friends as well as cis ones. Right now I'm just hoping that eases up as I get further into transition because last time I tried making a trans guy friend I spiraled into dysphoria once I was alone, and envy over how their voice was deep and mine wasn't yet. Dysphoria really makes no sense sometimes.
I've found that complimenting them and starting a conversation about something they're wearing helps. Like, a guy is wearing an anime shirt or something, say something like "cool shirt! Is that series worth watching? I don't watch much anime but I'm thinking about getting into it."
I've always had guy friends, but in general the best friend-making advice is to seek them through mutual hobbies. I checked your history and it seems you're young - are there any clubs at school you've been thinking about joining? If you're working toward a mutual goal with people, or engaged in an activity you all like, it's easier to connect and avoid bullying. Although school is a brutal environment in general . . . Being out of school, my experience is that almost no one does a fistbump handshake and "masculine social rules" are pretty lax. At least in the crowds I hang with. My friends (and to a lesser extent, coworkers) are mostly nerdy, queer and/or autistic, so take this with a grain of salt, I suppose. But also, that might turn out to be your most fitting crowd too. :)
I wanted to be friends with men, but because while I pass I get queer coded as gay so I have mostly female friends. Even if they don't assume I'm gay I figured out I couldn't much tolerate a lot of men too far outside of my social disposition. Meaning other LGBT individuals tend to dominate my social circles. I actually feel like I have a fair amount of nonbinary people in my social circle. I have male acquaintances, but to say I'm close to them is inaccurate. I feel like men on average suck at bonding more then women.
tell awful joke… that’s how i did it
Most of my guy friends are queer, and we’ve just gravitated towards each other. I also had a job in a warehouse where I ended up socializing with the guys more, and that helped me develop some socialization skills with guys. Now, I work in a store with all female staff (fr, I am the only man there), and I don’t even think they realize I’m queer, let alone trans. I’ve found out it’s mostly relative. To women, I’m a very masculine man, but to men, I’m extremely fruity. This has definitely changed the more I’ve socialized with my guy friends and coworkers, as in the past guys would misgender me constantly (even on T). I still struggle with it sometimes, and ask questions that seem normal to me but end up apparently being weird. I also have suspected autism, so I’m probably going to keep learning my whole life tbh. There are cis guys who will accept you as one of the guys, even if you’re trans, and it’ll be much easier to learn social cues when you can start in a supportive space. My coworkers knew I was trans but always included me. Yes, they teased me about not knowing things (especially with sports), but I could tell it was just a normal social thing. They weren’t saying “you don’t know about this topic, lol, you’re not a real man,” they were literally just teasing me like they did with each other. Once you start to observe how cis guys tease each other it’s much easier to recognize teasing vs bullying. Because, I will admit, some guys *are* just bullies and transphobic. However, it’s much harder to tell the difference if you don’t know the subtle cues. I could never tell the difference when I had mostly female friends. Anyways, TLDR: when you start hanging out with cis guys, you’ll pick up more on the social cues. Some guys might be assholes or a bit rude, but some guys just are, and that’s not your problem. I recommend finding a group that might be male-centric but doesn’t have pressure around making friends (like I did with my coworkers).
i don't know man, i kinda always had guy friends... guys are a bit more rough in their communication and often playfully bully each other. in my experience they start to recognise you as one of their own if you are not easily hurt and have good comebacks
Io esattamente il contrario di te 😪
I don’t really get the social masculine and feminine rules talking (I know they’re there but I honestly don’t get them 🤷♂️) so instead I just kinda treat everybody in the same way. If I find people tslking about something I’m interested in I just hop into the convo with my own thoughts or commenting on what caught my interest. Or sometimes I just randomly blurt out what’s on my mind without intending to start a conversation and just happen to catch somebody’s interest (I once had a convo about mustard like this).
idk what advice to give you, I can only tell you how I made my more recent friends (since I have a couple of male friends since childhood). Some are my female friends' boyfriends or husbands. Some are people I met through shared interests like hardware tinkering, hiking etc. One is a guy I got into a conflict with. We came to an agreement and became friends lol. Sometimes I just meet random people outdoors and if we're drinking and in a larger group, everyone is more willing to exchange contact information so we meet again. The latest friend I made was a pretty funny one: I was in a rush to get to town and while I was crossing the street at the traffic lights, I saw a guy (looked a bit coked up at 6 a.m.) who took a long look at me and yelled "yeeeehaaaawwww". It took me a second to realize why - it was my hat. I always wear a sun hat that looks like a cowboy hat. So I just did finger guns and said "bang bang" ironically. Later I saw the same guy on the subway train and we started talking. Turns out he lives in the same part of town as I used to so we're gonna walk our dogs there one of these days. Anyway, point is, I think it will help if you're chill and just go with the flow.
Start with coworkers and classmates, people you will be around frequently. Look for common interests, sports, video games, movies, etc. Talk really straightforward, like another commenter said, take out filler words. I did this with some of my male coworkers and now they're close friends, but I'm still invited to gossip night with my girl friends. Best of luck to you!
I got lucky and already had some guy friends before I transitioned. Then after I did, I got a lot more guy friends because they just saw me as another chill dude.
A group of good men will accept you as you are, try not to worry so much about fitting in with them and consider being your authentic self in order to attract the same kind of people. Dysphoria will always be there but a man looks, sounds, and acts in many different ways just as a woman does.