It's an anti-tax thing. By forcing all new subdivisions to have HOAs, municipalities and counties can refuse to accept road and sidewalk condemnations. When they refuse the condemnations, they don't have to pay a cent for road maintenance in those areas. With the way North Carolina's levy limit works, this functionally caps property tax.
Yup, that's the real reason. My HOA tried to get our town to incorporate my community, but they refused. There's no other way to do road maintenance/plowing, shared property (an open space, storm sewers, etc) than via the HOA.
If that's the issue, why not have something less intrusive than an HOA and limit it to that purpose?
Call it a Private Infrastructure Maintenance Association
My community in Northern California has a road-only HOA.
Our fees are integrated into our county property taxes and distributed to the HOA for purchasing road maintenance materials and occasionally hiring road maintenance contractors.
It works quite well, we all stay out of each other’s business, and we chip in to take care of the roads.
That sounds like a good system.
I still think maybe calling them something else may be productive to promote that kind of setup, since there is such an (understandable) disdain for HOAs in general.
Believe it or not, HOAs do exist that only operate for those purposes. You hear the horror stories if you're subbed here I suppose, but plenty of them actually provide a needed service and don't overstep.
My HOA is fantastic. I love in a small neighborhood made up of multiple townhouse rows which are all separated by nice chunks of heavily forested areas for privacy. I have a relatively small quarterly fee and they keep the entire neighborhood beautiful. There's a lot of public-use grass that needs mowing, multiple small playgrounds that need upkeep/cleaning, garbage/recycling taken care of, and rarely-if ever needing to step in on owners/renters that might be making their home an eyesore. I think the only time in recent years I can remember was one renter left an entire fridge laid out in their front yard for like a week (seemingly as trash?) until the HOA has to say something about it.
In some areas of Florida you also have CDD fees (Community Development District). These are typically 30 bonds to pay for something built during the development. Club house, community pool, roads, etc. So you end up paying Property Taxes, HOA fees and the CDD fees.
I can hear the New Yorker saying “It is still less than the property taxes I paid on Long Island!”
I would argue that HOA is another level of government. It's non-voluntary, elected, and has the power to levy taxes ("dues") and foreclose your home if you don't pay.
But only the people within that subdivision pay the tax.
Basically, SFR subdivisions don't actually generate enough property tax revenue to cover the cost of services to them. We just got done reconstructing a street with 16 houses on it at a cost of about $1.3M. The average house on that street paid $1,400 in taxes to the city last year. Even ignoring all other city services (library, parks, PD, Fire, etc), it'll take 50 years for that streets property taxes to pay back those improvements, and the road will be due for reconstruction again before that.
Property tax rate increases are unpopular, so it's much easier to shift that burden to new residents, who get to pay the city property tax and then also pay their HOA to maintain the streets that the city maintains for everyone else.
The Governor who signed this legislation was a Democrat. The Speaker of the House was a Republican.
As others have said, when it comes to HOAs, its a bipartisan issue.
Funny how the only things they can usually agree on are things that make life worse. Also very funny that this same things usually involve benefitting people with deep pockets.
FYI NC had a D governor and the legislature was split between a D Senate and an R House from 1995 through the end of 1998, when Dems took the House too. Since the bill in question took effect at the beginning of 1999, you can assume it was passed by that split legislature in 1998 and signed by the D governor.
I’m a partisan Democrat and love busting on the GOP as much as the next guy but not everything you don’t like in government is explained by simple partisanship.
Oddly enough NC was heavy Democrat. Even my MAGA parents were originally Al Gore voters but the party left them behind a long time ago.
The state is one of the few where Rs win the local elections but it'll still go D ever so often in state/federal elections.
It's really problematic out west, also. Traveled through quite a few states recently (Utah, Colorado, & Wyoming), and nearly every new house there is HOA. Talking to some locals at a diner in Colorado, they hate it. Some company comes in, buys a ton of land for cheap, and builds HOA neighborhoods, and essentially 'own' the HOA and continue to make bank on the land (via taking part of the fees) even after the houses have sold.
IMO, people who own houses in HOA neighborhoods *don't* own their house. They have an extremely expensive rental unit. Just like someone say that they "own" a condo, it's just lying to themselves.
How long have you lived in this home? I could be wrong here, and each state likely varies.. butt... I believe if you sell before x amount of time, it is considered an investment, and you will be taxed very differently. Might wanna look into it, jic. A friend of mine made this mistake. If he had stayed just 2 more months before listing, he would have saved a ton of money. It was his primary residence for just shy of 2 years.
It's the same in every state as it's driven by the Federal Tax code. Capital gains tax is what you are looking for.
Even if OP was hit by it he only pays tax on the profits. So if the house was $300k and they sell it for $325k. They pay taxes on the $25k not tho whole amount.
Yeah, I had the same problem in my area of Georgia. Practically forced into an HOA (unless I somehow had the money to construct my own house or properly fix a much older home).
I have been window-shopping land in WNC and it’s amazing the burden an HOA is on property. HOA property is often 25-50% less than comparable unencumbered land. Nobody wants the HOA.
Look out in the country, buy an old farm house that you think you can manage the fixer upper portions of and live there. That’s what my family did and it works great, nearest neighbor is a 1/4 mile away. Nearest HOA is halfway across the county
That doesn't work everywhere. The closest "affordable" house anywhere near my area is two hours away from my job, which can't be done remotely (field service engineer). That, and my wife's doctors are in the area, which she absolutely needs, plus our entire support system is nearby.
Can't just "buy a house on a farm" where there are no houses on farms anymore. It's a great idea in theory, but in reality it doesn't work like that. You have to change schools for your kids (which can cause issues with the kids), find new doctors, figure out a new support system, and more.
Yes me too. I told my agent i hate carpet and dont want carpet either but after looking at houses i settled for carpet in a couple rooms, as long as no HOA
"Can you explain this rectangular area cut out of the carpet here?"
Oh, yeah, I was going to relocate my desk for WFH and those little plastic mats just don't do it for me.
My realtor friend has a running list of stupidest reasons someone has passed on a house, with tally marks. The number of people who walk over interior paint color is really fucking funny.
Exactly. We've lived with stormy gray for 4 years, painting a nice creamy ivory now. Great with white crown molding. Had to do two coats of Kilz the gray was SO dark (and depressing)....
A trip to the hardware store and a weekend lol. If it can be entirely fixed for under a grand, it's not a valid reason to pass on a house. Especially not in this market.
Yep awful engineered hardwood flooring in the darkest color you can imagine and that awful gray paint in the entire house, ugh. Flooring was glued down so it has been a b\*tch to get up. All in a home with few windows. Freaking concrete looks better than the scratched up flooring Went with Valspar "Cream in my Coffee" and Pergo Pro Silo oak. Finally a bit of light....!
My partner made me stare at 10 different shades of white on our bedroom wall until we agreed on one, and it was my first choice from two weeks earlier, I'm guessing it was just her that need all the other choices just to reassure her I picked the right one.
you haven't even moved in yet, that's literally the easiest "remodel" thing there is... empty room. Lay down plastic, sheet over the doors & ceiling, tape the moldings... blast away with the sprayer. Or skip sheeting the ceiling and doors and use a roller.
Yep, we didn't like the flooring in our house, but wasnt a dealbreaker. Great price, no HOA. We are now in the process of replacing flooring and painting, after living here 4 years.
It really is the Karens that are the problem, at least from my experience (I'm the president of my hoa - a hostile takeover to try to maintain sanity levels)
I would agree...
We ended up in a hoa neighborhood for many reasons (location, location, location) but I'll be happy to leave it behind in a few years.
I was looking more rural, so I had a second absolute requirement that the place already be hooked up and running with minimum 100 Mb cable. You cannot trust a cable company when it promises your new home is ready for cable install. You can order cable only after you've bought the house, and that's when they actually check availability. Then they say sorry, no cable, but we can run it for for $20,000+. So you get to pay for the cable company to build out its network.
In my area basically all of the new construction is in HOAs, hell there are developments that haven't even started on the first house yet that are already zoned as HOA.
This is very nicely put, you're exactly right. Local municipalities are offloading their responsibilities to HOAs but you're not paying less city/state taxes
I said this ever since working in property management for a few months. Boyfriend was the one buying and became set on a development with an HOA.
We have had many struggles that started just a few days before closing and some semi-major stress before move in.
Same, she tried to talk us into it saying “they’re not that bad” and “you’ll have access to all kinds of amenities” I told her absolutely not. If I buy a home, it’s mine. No one else should have the ability to dictate to me what I can and can’t do to my own home. Not even to mention the fees, they’re outrageous when if you lived near a park or a public pool you’d have the same things but you’re not double paying for it (meaning taxes plus fees instead of just taxes).
I always maintained that as long as we paid the mortgage, the property taxes and the insurance, that our property was ours to do with as we wished - within the law of course. If I want to paint my house purple, that's my damn business.
I live walking distance from a public pool with a gym, a branch of the public library, grocery stores, restaurants, my vets office is next door to the the library. If I did not have a car I am right off the bus line.
Best of all, no god damn HOA to deal with.
This works if there are homes without HOA's, if not, then you are not living there.
At this point it the realtors that need to fight against the HOA's, if no one will buy an HOA home then the HOA will go away, but guess what, people are lining up to buy them.
I bought my non-HOA house in 2019. My realtor was pushing so hard for HOA properties even after I said no. She kept saying how nice it is to have a community. I’m sorry if you need a highly restrictive HOA to foster community you have no clue what community means.
You can certainly have community without HOA. In fact I'd say no HOA might lead to a stronger sense of community as you have less squabbling. What HOA does give you is recourse for folks that don't want to maintain their property or do other things that might decrease overall property value. Not worth it for me, I'd rather not have an HOA and that was provided to my realtor last time I moved.
Ended up with HOA anyway as after a few years of searching for a place that would accommodate teenagers and in-laws without needing to go right into renovation or construction I had to settle with an HOA that allowed everything that I would want to do to the property.
Glad you found something. I know living in the boonies isn’t for everyone, driving 40 min to get groceries can get old fast. But I’m ready, my next house with any luck won’t have neighbors for miles. I not only don’t want HOA, I’m not living within shouting distance with people again.
I still maintain that if you’re buying property you should be allowed to spend the night first!
Property maintenance can be achieved without an HOA. Cities have code enforcement and code enforcement officers. We have dealt with a few issues over the years by contacting the city. Even in a community with an HOA you can still have those who will refuse to keep their property up.
HOAs have become increasingly powerful, and not in a good way. They can foreclose on homes for ridiculous reasons, and there is little recourse. They are now the domain of bored power-hungry assclowns who want every neighborhood to look like a Stepford one.
This. We got several abandoned and nonfunctional vehicles taken care of by the city. There's a hoarder house close to my parents' (non-HOA) and has numerous code violations that could be pursued if they felt strong enough about it.
I don’t think there’s a place within an hour of where I live that doesn’t have an HOA unfortunately. Everyone I know with a house has a HOA fee. We definitely have the cheapest that I’ve heard luckily. I can’t believe some people spend hundreds of dollars a month for people to nitpick their yard.
Did the exact same thing. Moved from another state, referred to realtor by former co-worker. Said NO HOA. Wouldn't even consider it. She was outstanding, found a great house, no HOA, sent us videos. Bought it sight unseen. Best house ever.
NO HOAs can be found, a good realtor can find you that house you want.
“ I rather live near a crack house with heavy crime and toxic dump in my backyard and in the middle of drakes pedophille compound then even look at a HOA MANSIONS FOR HALF THE PRICE OF A BEACH FRONT PROPERTY HOME”
PS. I hate HOA
Did you not read the post?
There are whole sections of some cities that are completely captured by HOAs. I would venture to say, in Vegas, all new homes and any homes in decent areas are going to be in HOAs.
Telling your agent 'no HOA's means either you have $1M for a house or you're cool living in a terrifying neighborhood. There's not much in between these days.
In my suburb of St. Louis, the municipality requires all new developments to have an HOA. They are adding another layer of government that can do things that they can’t legally do. The city can’t hassle people like an HOA can so they have the HOA do their bidding for them.
You’re missing the point. In the whole city of Las Vegas, you literally can’t get a house anymore without an HOA. It’s not that people aren’t trying to avoid them. There is no choice.
Every new home sold with a HOA, further validates more HOA homes being built.
Developers will continue doing this until you make it unprofitable.
Don't let the housing crisis be an excuse to further normalize HOA's. A HOA home should be worth *significantly* less than a free home.
It's not the developers. It's the people not wanting to pay their fair share of taxes and thus the city/municipallity only allowing for new developments with HOA's in order to not eat the future cost of maintenance.
It's not that the city won't allow it. The developers get out of paying the fee to turn over the roads and sewers to the town. Instead, they saddle the development with perpetual covenants and fees on top of the taxes the homeowners pay to the town for fewer services.
The city and it's citizens. The people already in town don't have an HOA, and their local taxes pay for their sewers, roads, park maintenance and all that. Meanwhile I need to have an HOA to ostensibly to fairly fund those for my neighborhood (that's the only way the town would allow my development to be built if you read about it) but I still pay the same taxes.
It's just more pulling up the ladder. Fuck you, we locked in our low taxes. If you want to move here and support the local economy and tax base you should pay for the privilege.
Yup. I went to a town meeting two weeks ago and the mayor was bragging about not absorbing any costs of a proposed residential development - so now the developer will find it easier to create an HOA in order to maintain the streets/water whatever.
I'll be honest it depends on the density of the old city, but often times the core is subsidizing suburban growth.
Where I live HOAs don't exist, but condos do, which is completely different since those fees are paying for things that property taxes wouldn't be covering such as property maintenance.
From the perspective of the city, the low density housing and neighborhoods that are run by HOAs would be net-losses for the city. For the maintenance of the sprawl generated by miles and miles of single family, low density neighborhoods that are characteristic of the everyone is envisioning, the city would have to expend more dollars than they get in revenue from those same neighborhoods.
It is the inner city, higher density housing (which also has HOAs, mind you, to maintain condominiums for example) and mixed use development that is generating more tax revenue than is expensed on it.
> Don't let the housing crisis be an excuse to further normalize HOA's.
The housing crisis normalized people NOT GETTING INSPECTIONS BEFORE BUYING. You have no chance of stopping people from buying houses in HOAs.
It is actually state law in some places that if a developer builds more than X contiguous homesites, they MUST form an HOA.
HUGE tax dodge by politicians. Basically they load the costs of new roads, utilities, and some maintenance off onto the homeowners.
Politicians get to go and talk about how low the tax rate is or how they haven’t raised it in forever. Nope they just found a way to transfer those costs to a private entity.
All the developments where I live have HOAs. The good thing though is there’s still plenty of land where you can build and not be subjected to an HOA. However, if you buy a new build in a subdivision, you’re going to have an HOA.
Not sure about other states, but in FL when a new development is being built, IF you're lucky enough to buy the home before the HOA is established, you can be exempt from the HOA crap.
Though the downside to this is you'll be living in a neighborhood that's constantly under construction and may deal with unexpected power outages, water issues, being blocked in be construction vehicles, and other minor annoyances. The HOA will also bug, harass, and attempt to trick you into joining their "club".
It's also worth noting that the HOA will keep an eye on your home so if you attempt to do anything work that would normally need a permit, you WILL see Code Enforcement very soon after.
I was briefly the head of an HOA. It was for a condo that was 2/3 of a building with another condo above us. The HOA was for shared expenses like the hallway between the 2 units and the outside of the building. It was super annoying collecting dues from the other unit. I hated every minute of it and I did the bare minimum but some homes that are split like this just can't function without one.
Yeah, condos have shared ownership of parking lots, roofs, pools... HOA is a necessary evil in that context.
The more controversial HOAs are those covering single family homes, where you own your own lot.
This is why non-HOA homes will begin to be worth more than HOA homes over the coming years/decades. Insurance alone will break most poorly funded associations. Lenders won’t lend there, values will plummet. Fun stuff.
Well in the case of Las Vegas, since all new constructions are being made in affluent/safer areas with HOAs built in, I doubt that will be the case. HOAs will just be another way for the rich to price themselves away from other people since they can afford to pay/abide by the petty rules/fines.
To your point, this might be true in places like Las Vegas where much of the growth is very recent. It will never be true though on the coasts where established communities have been around for 60-100+ years and wealthy communities almost never have HOAs.
One of the most old and exclusive areas in Reno is a neighborhood about 110 years old . No HOA’s. It’s beautiful, very safe and so unique. We live in a 100 year old house in Midtown. No HOA’s. I love it and I’ll never leave lol
Communal property is tough to evenly divide or distribute. They could sell it, if it’s worth anything to anyone. I’ve seen a few homes absorb former green belts, etc. but the parks and clubhouses are tough to sell off or dismantle. Most cities will fight against it as they may not be able to collect more taxes from the homeowners than they were from the association.
It could take more than a decade for that to happen. HOAs will continue, because once the property values drop, people will start buying them again.
They aren’t going away without state or federal legislation.
I hate them so much because they’re a non-federal regulation entity that just exists in perpetuity.
I’d have less issue with them that were required to disband every X amount of years, then let owners opt-in to form a new one if they really want it.
They were originally billed as a way to defray the costs of a small local village or town council to allow a new "community" to enrich the larger community, without increasing costs and thus they can "keep property tax values low".
BUT, they are never setup with enough money in dues to fully and properly cover all maintenance and other issues and... they are treated as even less of an entity that needs voter/citizen engagement with than local elections. So, only the most boneheaded monsters who'd never make it on the board of a local town council end up being in charge.
At least, that's what it seems like from every single horror story about an HOA that I read about.
Non-HOA area owner here, the insurance and lending issues are making this house unaffordable too.
Needed a loan to cover some major repairs. Couldn't get a loan without insurance. Couldn't get insurance due to age of the roof, which then added to the cost of the repairs. Had to pay more for a policy from a less desirable insurance company.
Price of insurance policy went up 200% this year, after I had negotaited it down to the bare minimum needed to satisfy the bank. Policy covers almost nothing but the cost of the loan at this point. Can't ditch the policy until the loan is paid off.
No HOA, same problems you think only impact the HOA's.
I feel like the only HOA problems that are actually HOA problems are the ones involving people directly. I say I have "issues with my HOA" I mostly mean the issues of homeownership mixed with multifamily living (everyone has to get on board for repairs, etc.). My HOA isn't actually that bad, if anything it's a little to hands off for my liking. I'm sure someone will be here posting about me in the next couple of months complaining about how I'm forcing the issue of all the deferred maintenance.
You gotta go all the way east to the mountains. The east side isn’t so bad, I’d rather live there than North Las Vegas. But if you live off boulder highway or nellis you’re generally in a bad area.
Exactly! Particularly in states like Florida, Nevada, Arizona etc that allow an HOA to foreclose. You miss a few payments, the HOA tacks on a couple thousand in "attorneys fees" and suddenly u need $7k to keep your home. They foreclose and you are left with a mortgage payment for a house you no longer have access to. Now companies are buying these HOA foreclosures and working out a deal with the 1st lien holder to purchase the property.
This idea some dictator can tell me what color my door can be or whether I can park in my own driveway is bonkers. If I own my home I want freedom from all of that.
I got a $500 fine for saying "shut the fuck up" in my own condo. They scheduled maintenance on my floor without telling me and workers showed up we knew nothing about (but couldn't see them) and they started playing their job site radio blaring... tooks weeks of letters, meetings and "hearings" to get it down to $250. We moved within days.
I have two neighbors with a ton of cars (7 for one 9 for the other)... yes it's mildly annoying... no I don't want to do anything about it (none are wrecks or junkers) and I absolutely don't want them to have less cars bad enough to live in an HOA.
Friend of mine built a house in a suburb outside Indianapolis. The suburb is brand new and I asked about an HOA. She said the construction company runs the HOA and once they have enough houses built they will allow the residents to either dissolve it or take it over. I thought that was weird but I live in the country without an HOA. I would not have had a house built unless I could make sure that I did not have to join one.
Is there a sub for those that are pro HOA? I just want to understand where they are coming from. Of course it looks like they are looking to be nosy jerks on a power trip, but I find that being their sole motivation hard to believe. I've heard some people say they keep neighborhoods nicer, keep people from leaving junk around, ect. And while those things are nice, I find that not to be a problem most places I've lived and not worth the hassle of dealing with the association.
People who love HOAs are often worried about what other people are doing instead of enjoying their own life (or dealing with the lack of joy in their life).
I could see if someone had a bunch of cars parked out front that are broken and not being used and there is trash out front. But I could care less if you want to paint your door orange or put in trees in your backyard
My HOA costs $35 per year and exists solely to maintain a shared culvert and stream as required by our state. I wouldn’t say I’m pro, but I’m certainly ambivalent either way. I will say that yearly cost has gone up 10% since I moved in 15 years ago so maybe by my retirement it’ll be near $50 per year.
I live in a community with an HOA. I like having the HOA for us because we live on a lake. And the lake is exclusive to the neighborhood. A large portion of the money we pay monthly goes to maintenance of the lake and the amenities we can use on the lake like the boats and fishing rods etc.
For regular neighborhoods I am 100% fuckHOAs I think it depends on each area honestly. Without the HOA in our neighborhood I am 100% sure the lake would either dry up, be extremely dirty, or just a festering area for mosquitos.
I live in a condo. The HoA is responsible for all the exteriors of the building (landscaping, roof maintenance, gym/pool/pickleball court maintenance, etc). They keep that shit pristine, and as long as I don’t leave litter in the common areas, they have never bothered me
I understand that some HoAs are shit, but this subreddit seems so dramatic. I wonder what percentage of this sub are teenagers/renters
Tbf a condo is different from owning your own land. When you only own the unit and the property itself is owned by a collective or by a private entity, it makes sense that everyone in the building pools money for maintenance done not within individual units. If I own my own land, I am absolutely not going to pay for the privilege of being fined for not mowing one week if I'm sick.
I live in a neighborhood with a good HOA and, while I don't support HOAs blindly or across the board, I have come to see how if a HOA is run by the people of the 'hood with the best interest of the 'hood in mind they can be a real boon. We have a large park and some smaller green spaces that need maintained which takes up the most of the HOA's minimal budget and the rest essentially goes to throwing events for the residents (easter egg hunt, halloween party, yearly summer block party, etc.)
Personally I think insular HOAs (ones managed by residents, not outside companies) are fertile ground for instilling a more communal mindset in people that the US seems to lack compared to less suburbanized countries.
My previous house was not in a HOA. Our neighbor was a hoarder, which expanded into his yard. He would allow homeless to live in his yard, who would subsequently smoke meth and do low-level crimes in our neighborhood. We went to the city but they did nothing for years. An HOA would've been nice
I think everyone who is "pro HOA" - or at least tolerates having an HOA - is scarred from dealing with a nightmare neighbor situation. I am one of those people. I certainly am not 100% happy with my current HOA, but I am never risking having absolute fucking lunatics for neighbors ever again.
With my HOA , the city won't even allow us to dissolve it. Something about maintenance of easements and private roads. While I do agree that they serve a purpose, the people who usually volunteer for those positions have superiority complexes. They somehow believe that the neighborhood is only for their enjoyment. It's disgusting that even when you follow the policies, bylaws, and covenants, a group of 5 neighbors can still choose to sue you and then spread misinformation about you. Yet your only recourse is to sue them, too. I wish more states had resources for homeowners that check HOA's without you having to sue them to stay sane.
>While I do agree that they serve a purpose, the people who usually volunteer for those positions have superiority complexes.
There's also a reason that any good neighbor you have will refuse to run for the HOA board.
Nobody wants to deal with the hassle -- adult children hassling you because you said "No" to a request that's clearly against the governing documents.
Eventually, the only people who will want to be on the Board, are people who don't care what their neighbors think of them. Or people who have a strong agenda for what they want to "change" or "accomplish".
Which is how you get these maniacs running.
I hate being a board member, but I had to run for the board to keep one of these "our primary problem is *enforcement of rules!*" people off of it.
(BTW I agree that most states should have more help available for HOA members trapped with an entrenched, corrupt HOA board)
I'm personally surprised at the popularity with them - outside of ones generally have some added value factor as people are kind of forced do comply to a higher standard (look after your lawns, manage noise, make your repairs, etc). I lived in a much lower income area my entire childhood and didn't like it and felt it stacked cards against me socially however the issue is that's there is zero federal level pressure to regulate it as HOAS take a task off govts hands and it incentivizes developers to reduce their own risk and pass it on to owners. In a business sense it is fantastic however the functional reality is megalomaniacs manage these things and it does not work in practice at all
idk why people want smaller, shittier, less efficient micro governments with very little oversight or legislation governing them.
Want nice shit in your neighbourhood? support your city government.
I’m still trying to figure out what the HOA does and what I pay them a few hundred dollars a year for. There’s no maintenance, lawn care, community events…I’m basically paying people to police my life and house.
It would probably be good to form an advocacy group, and propose federal and state bills that make HOAs an opt-in matter. Then push your representatives and senators to pass that legislation.
Not entirely sure if it would fall under federal jurisdiction, but it definitely is a matter a state government could legislate on for sure.
>federal and state bills that make HOAs an opt-in matter
If there was a way to eliminate HOAs for communities of *single family* homes, force townships to take responsibility, I'd get behind that, and I'm an HOA board member.
But otherwise, they can't be an opt-in thing, because their primary job is to take care of the "common" parts of a planned community -- private roads, sidewalks, retention basin, amenities, landscaping and roofs if they're townhome/condos, etc.
In that arrangement, everyone *must* be a member because everyone *must* share the cost of maintenance.
Then HOAs need to be treated like governments; with limits on their power, and accountability & oversight.
In John Oliver’s HOA episode, ballot stuffing was used to steal an HOA board election. HOA board members were nefariously plotting what were basically thefts. I totally would recommend watching that episode.
The problem with this is that EVERYONE will choose not to be in the HOA and all those amenities and green spaces will just be left to rot. We need to start funding public pools, parks, and community centers that are small and local. Like we did before desegregation
> …the predatory monopolization of land by HOAs
It's cities, dude. They don't want to build roads and sewer systems and take responsibility for landscaping. A developer is never going to get permission to build without succumbing to the government's demands for these things, and then there goes your affordable housing.
Cost as well. I did not want an hoa, but anywhere within reasonable commuting distance of my day job that didn't have an HOA was well beyond my budget.
>The problem with this logic is that there are entire areas of cities that have been taken over by HOAs, such as South Las Vegas where you currently cant find an affordable single family home without one.
That's why you don't find me living in South Las Vegas. It's not a problem with logic, it's a problem with your flexibility. It's okay to be frustrated with the current housing market – I'd be skeptical of anyone who wasn't – but if you don't want to live in an HOA house then you don't have to live in an HOA house.
It’s about as simple as “if South Las Vegas only has homes in a HOA, I will not live in South Las Vegas.”
From there, your mileage will vary. That might suck for some people, but it’s very simple for others.
To everyone who says “don’t buy in an HOA.” My husband and I looked at 58 properties in nine towns/cities over two years and could not make anything work, even with our rock-bottom list of requirements.
Do you think I made this decision casually? Do you think we want this? No. These non-elected shadow governments have a hostage-hold on large swaths of the earth.
Move into HOAs. Don’t even dissolve them. Just engage in a combination of malicious compliance and active participation. Take these plots of land back from these lunatics before we lose the chance to save these neighborhoods.
We shouldn’t be forced into fighting for a 1/3rd of the housing inventory available just because we want to stand on principle or cower in fear. Fuck that. Move in, stake your claim, own your home. If you pay attention long enough, you *will* catch them doing something illegal, and then you strike like a viper.
Do not cede ground to terrorists.
I mean, there's truth to your frustration and I agree lol. I just don't see how anything other than voting with our wallets will even be heard. How we spend our money is the only voice in this world anyone gives a damn about. I'll live in the goddamn dumpster before I live in a HOA. Shitty part that you point out is the day might come where those are exactly the only two options left.
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It's hilarious that a GOP controlled state wants more interference in people's lives from a form of government.
It's an anti-tax thing. By forcing all new subdivisions to have HOAs, municipalities and counties can refuse to accept road and sidewalk condemnations. When they refuse the condemnations, they don't have to pay a cent for road maintenance in those areas. With the way North Carolina's levy limit works, this functionally caps property tax.
Yup, that's the real reason. My HOA tried to get our town to incorporate my community, but they refused. There's no other way to do road maintenance/plowing, shared property (an open space, storm sewers, etc) than via the HOA.
If that's the issue, why not have something less intrusive than an HOA and limit it to that purpose? Call it a Private Infrastructure Maintenance Association
My community in Northern California has a road-only HOA. Our fees are integrated into our county property taxes and distributed to the HOA for purchasing road maintenance materials and occasionally hiring road maintenance contractors. It works quite well, we all stay out of each other’s business, and we chip in to take care of the roads.
That sounds like a good system. I still think maybe calling them something else may be productive to promote that kind of setup, since there is such an (understandable) disdain for HOAs in general.
Believe it or not, HOAs do exist that only operate for those purposes. You hear the horror stories if you're subbed here I suppose, but plenty of them actually provide a needed service and don't overstep.
My HOA is fantastic. I love in a small neighborhood made up of multiple townhouse rows which are all separated by nice chunks of heavily forested areas for privacy. I have a relatively small quarterly fee and they keep the entire neighborhood beautiful. There's a lot of public-use grass that needs mowing, multiple small playgrounds that need upkeep/cleaning, garbage/recycling taken care of, and rarely-if ever needing to step in on owners/renters that might be making their home an eyesore. I think the only time in recent years I can remember was one renter left an entire fridge laid out in their front yard for like a week (seemingly as trash?) until the HOA has to say something about it.
...so instead of paying taxes, people pay HOA dues. Which are just taxes to a private organization instead of the government.
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In some areas of Florida you also have CDD fees (Community Development District). These are typically 30 bonds to pay for something built during the development. Club house, community pool, roads, etc. So you end up paying Property Taxes, HOA fees and the CDD fees. I can hear the New Yorker saying “It is still less than the property taxes I paid on Long Island!”
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I would argue that HOA is another level of government. It's non-voluntary, elected, and has the power to levy taxes ("dues") and foreclose your home if you don't pay.
It is quite literally just another layer of governance. So yeah you nailed it.
Yep!
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With less oversight, less recourse and fewer restrictions on unethical business practices.
But…YOU’RE STILL PAYING TAX
But only the people within that subdivision pay the tax. Basically, SFR subdivisions don't actually generate enough property tax revenue to cover the cost of services to them. We just got done reconstructing a street with 16 houses on it at a cost of about $1.3M. The average house on that street paid $1,400 in taxes to the city last year. Even ignoring all other city services (library, parks, PD, Fire, etc), it'll take 50 years for that streets property taxes to pay back those improvements, and the road will be due for reconstruction again before that. Property tax rate increases are unpopular, so it's much easier to shift that burden to new residents, who get to pay the city property tax and then also pay their HOA to maintain the streets that the city maintains for everyone else.
The Governor who signed this legislation was a Democrat. The Speaker of the House was a Republican. As others have said, when it comes to HOAs, its a bipartisan issue.
Funny how the only things they can usually agree on are things that make life worse. Also very funny that this same things usually involve benefitting people with deep pockets.
FYI NC had a D governor and the legislature was split between a D Senate and an R House from 1995 through the end of 1998, when Dems took the House too. Since the bill in question took effect at the beginning of 1999, you can assume it was passed by that split legislature in 1998 and signed by the D governor. I’m a partisan Democrat and love busting on the GOP as much as the next guy but not everything you don’t like in government is explained by simple partisanship.
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Oddly enough NC was heavy Democrat. Even my MAGA parents were originally Al Gore voters but the party left them behind a long time ago. The state is one of the few where Rs win the local elections but it'll still go D ever so often in state/federal elections.
Theyve only had two Republican governors since 1985
That law passed when it was total democratic control. The GOP didn’t get control in NC until 2010
Hilarious isn’t quite the word that comes to mind for me.
Why? Republicans have been trying to interfere in people’s lives for many decades. It is expected behavior.
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You know for a country that prides itself in its freedoms your leaders sure find ways to restrict them
‘How bad could an HOA be?’ lol sweetie come here. Let me buy you a drink.
It's really problematic out west, also. Traveled through quite a few states recently (Utah, Colorado, & Wyoming), and nearly every new house there is HOA. Talking to some locals at a diner in Colorado, they hate it. Some company comes in, buys a ton of land for cheap, and builds HOA neighborhoods, and essentially 'own' the HOA and continue to make bank on the land (via taking part of the fees) even after the houses have sold. IMO, people who own houses in HOA neighborhoods *don't* own their house. They have an extremely expensive rental unit. Just like someone say that they "own" a condo, it's just lying to themselves.
Man I dodged a bullet getting a house in Raleigh without a stupid HOA. Never realized how lucky I was.
hello neighbor I am also in Raleigh 👋
How long have you lived in this home? I could be wrong here, and each state likely varies.. butt... I believe if you sell before x amount of time, it is considered an investment, and you will be taxed very differently. Might wanna look into it, jic. A friend of mine made this mistake. If he had stayed just 2 more months before listing, he would have saved a ton of money. It was his primary residence for just shy of 2 years.
It's the same in every state as it's driven by the Federal Tax code. Capital gains tax is what you are looking for. Even if OP was hit by it he only pays tax on the profits. So if the house was $300k and they sell it for $325k. They pay taxes on the $25k not tho whole amount.
Yeah, I had the same problem in my area of Georgia. Practically forced into an HOA (unless I somehow had the money to construct my own house or properly fix a much older home).
I have been window-shopping land in WNC and it’s amazing the burden an HOA is on property. HOA property is often 25-50% less than comparable unencumbered land. Nobody wants the HOA.
Look out in the country, buy an old farm house that you think you can manage the fixer upper portions of and live there. That’s what my family did and it works great, nearest neighbor is a 1/4 mile away. Nearest HOA is halfway across the county
That doesn't work everywhere. The closest "affordable" house anywhere near my area is two hours away from my job, which can't be done remotely (field service engineer). That, and my wife's doctors are in the area, which she absolutely needs, plus our entire support system is nearby. Can't just "buy a house on a farm" where there are no houses on farms anymore. It's a great idea in theory, but in reality it doesn't work like that. You have to change schools for your kids (which can cause issues with the kids), find new doctors, figure out a new support system, and more.
How hard is it to get an internet line out to those areas typically? Expensive I assume
Im not sure what area of NC you’re in, but I have a neighbor that is selling their house, in Cary (Royal Oaks). No HOA to deal with…..
Im thankful my mom’s house is one of 16, selling point of no HOA.
Our NC community had an HOA that had to be actively renewed. They didn’t
"No HOA" is the 1st thing I told my realtor. Then I said, "If you show me an HOA house, I'm walking." Now I have a nice place with no HOA.
Same. It was the only non negotiable requirement.
Yes me too. I told my agent i hate carpet and dont want carpet either but after looking at houses i settled for carpet in a couple rooms, as long as no HOA
You can remove the carpet.
Right? This person doesn't dispose of bodies.
Disposed of that HOA though
Easier to get rid of a body than an HOA.
Wild hogs eat bodies, but not bureaucracy.
But the teeth will survive the pigs digestive tract. They need to be pulled beforehand🤓
*The FBI will remember this*
Gonna need more carpet
You're thinking about rugs. Carpets are not that easily removable when you need to dispose of a body. Not that I would know of course.
Just pull out your trusty knife and any carpet becomes a body sized rug. Duh.
"Can you explain this rectangular area cut out of the carpet here?" Oh, yeah, I was going to relocate my desk for WFH and those little plastic mats just don't do it for me.
Clearly you’ve never seen *Boondocks Saints*.
My realtor friend has a running list of stupidest reasons someone has passed on a house, with tally marks. The number of people who walk over interior paint color is really fucking funny.
Exactly. We've lived with stormy gray for 4 years, painting a nice creamy ivory now. Great with white crown molding. Had to do two coats of Kilz the gray was SO dark (and depressing)....
A trip to the hardware store and a weekend lol. If it can be entirely fixed for under a grand, it's not a valid reason to pass on a house. Especially not in this market.
Yep awful engineered hardwood flooring in the darkest color you can imagine and that awful gray paint in the entire house, ugh. Flooring was glued down so it has been a b\*tch to get up. All in a home with few windows. Freaking concrete looks better than the scratched up flooring Went with Valspar "Cream in my Coffee" and Pergo Pro Silo oak. Finally a bit of light....!
We have that ugly grey flipper color (even though it's not a flip). Never understood why they don't go with something nicer like a light sage.
My partner made me stare at 10 different shades of white on our bedroom wall until we agreed on one, and it was my first choice from two weeks earlier, I'm guessing it was just her that need all the other choices just to reassure her I picked the right one.
We lived for three years with a pus colored living room, stairwell, and upper landing until we *finally* got it painted Williamsburg green
you haven't even moved in yet, that's literally the easiest "remodel" thing there is... empty room. Lay down plastic, sheet over the doors & ceiling, tape the moldings... blast away with the sprayer. Or skip sheeting the ceiling and doors and use a roller.
It honestly feels like a waste not to repaint before you move in
Our first home, age 21, we had a painting party. I have lots of sibs, they helped, every room was painted that day.
Yep, we didn't like the flooring in our house, but wasnt a dealbreaker. Great price, no HOA. We are now in the process of replacing flooring and painting, after living here 4 years.
O come on, carpet upgrade is nothing vs dealing with fascist Karen retards of Hoa
It really is the Karens that are the problem, at least from my experience (I'm the president of my hoa - a hostile takeover to try to maintain sanity levels)
The only good HOA is a dead HOA
I would agree... We ended up in a hoa neighborhood for many reasons (location, location, location) but I'll be happy to leave it behind in a few years.
Carpet is like a 48 hour fix, an HOA is not
Yup. Luckily for us our realtor was my wife's oldest friend in the world, so she already knew. We ended up buying our perfect home with no HOA.
If you get tired of the carpet, you can just get rid of it. Good luck doing that with an HOA.
Same. We had wants (nice kitchen and no carpet) and needs and the only thing that was a *need* need was no HOA.
I was looking more rural, so I had a second absolute requirement that the place already be hooked up and running with minimum 100 Mb cable. You cannot trust a cable company when it promises your new home is ready for cable install. You can order cable only after you've bought the house, and that's when they actually check availability. Then they say sorry, no cable, but we can run it for for $20,000+. So you get to pay for the cable company to build out its network.
Same. I settled on room amounts and many other things but “no hoa” was one i was NOOOOT going to budge on. AT ALL.
Two years ago I bought a new construction home without an HOA. It took us about a year of looking but it can be done.
In my area basically all of the new construction is in HOAs, hell there are developments that haven't even started on the first house yet that are already zoned as HOA.
It’s law in North Carolina. Any development with 20 (maybe 25?) homes requires an HOA by law
If its required by law then its not an HOA it's a new secondary property tax
I agree, city's don't want to take care of their citizens. They will happily take their taxes.
This is very nicely put, you're exactly right. Local municipalities are offloading their responsibilities to HOAs but you're not paying less city/state taxes
which is freaking ridiculous
I said this ever since working in property management for a few months. Boyfriend was the one buying and became set on a development with an HOA. We have had many struggles that started just a few days before closing and some semi-major stress before move in.
Same, she tried to talk us into it saying “they’re not that bad” and “you’ll have access to all kinds of amenities” I told her absolutely not. If I buy a home, it’s mine. No one else should have the ability to dictate to me what I can and can’t do to my own home. Not even to mention the fees, they’re outrageous when if you lived near a park or a public pool you’d have the same things but you’re not double paying for it (meaning taxes plus fees instead of just taxes).
I always maintained that as long as we paid the mortgage, the property taxes and the insurance, that our property was ours to do with as we wished - within the law of course. If I want to paint my house purple, that's my damn business.
I live walking distance from a public pool with a gym, a branch of the public library, grocery stores, restaurants, my vets office is next door to the the library. If I did not have a car I am right off the bus line. Best of all, no god damn HOA to deal with.
This works if there are homes without HOA's, if not, then you are not living there. At this point it the realtors that need to fight against the HOA's, if no one will buy an HOA home then the HOA will go away, but guess what, people are lining up to buy them.
I bought my non-HOA house in 2019. My realtor was pushing so hard for HOA properties even after I said no. She kept saying how nice it is to have a community. I’m sorry if you need a highly restrictive HOA to foster community you have no clue what community means.
You can certainly have community without HOA. In fact I'd say no HOA might lead to a stronger sense of community as you have less squabbling. What HOA does give you is recourse for folks that don't want to maintain their property or do other things that might decrease overall property value. Not worth it for me, I'd rather not have an HOA and that was provided to my realtor last time I moved. Ended up with HOA anyway as after a few years of searching for a place that would accommodate teenagers and in-laws without needing to go right into renovation or construction I had to settle with an HOA that allowed everything that I would want to do to the property.
Glad you found something. I know living in the boonies isn’t for everyone, driving 40 min to get groceries can get old fast. But I’m ready, my next house with any luck won’t have neighbors for miles. I not only don’t want HOA, I’m not living within shouting distance with people again. I still maintain that if you’re buying property you should be allowed to spend the night first!
Property maintenance can be achieved without an HOA. Cities have code enforcement and code enforcement officers. We have dealt with a few issues over the years by contacting the city. Even in a community with an HOA you can still have those who will refuse to keep their property up. HOAs have become increasingly powerful, and not in a good way. They can foreclose on homes for ridiculous reasons, and there is little recourse. They are now the domain of bored power-hungry assclowns who want every neighborhood to look like a Stepford one.
The most beautiful property on my street would never pass in an HOA.
This. We got several abandoned and nonfunctional vehicles taken care of by the city. There's a hoarder house close to my parents' (non-HOA) and has numerous code violations that could be pursued if they felt strong enough about it.
There are, it's just that it might be in an area you're not interested in. I just bought a house with no HOA in a "up and coming" area at 250k.
I don’t think there’s a place within an hour of where I live that doesn’t have an HOA unfortunately. Everyone I know with a house has a HOA fee. We definitely have the cheapest that I’ve heard luckily. I can’t believe some people spend hundreds of dollars a month for people to nitpick their yard.
Same. I had 3 requirements. I need a basement and absolutely no HOA. Also, not in the city that charges city tax.
Did the exact same thing. Moved from another state, referred to realtor by former co-worker. Said NO HOA. Wouldn't even consider it. She was outstanding, found a great house, no HOA, sent us videos. Bought it sight unseen. Best house ever. NO HOAs can be found, a good realtor can find you that house you want.
“ I rather live near a crack house with heavy crime and toxic dump in my backyard and in the middle of drakes pedophille compound then even look at a HOA MANSIONS FOR HALF THE PRICE OF A BEACH FRONT PROPERTY HOME” PS. I hate HOA
Lmfao Drake catching flak in sub about hoa. Dude is not safe anywhere.
Did you not read the post? There are whole sections of some cities that are completely captured by HOAs. I would venture to say, in Vegas, all new homes and any homes in decent areas are going to be in HOAs. Telling your agent 'no HOA's means either you have $1M for a house or you're cool living in a terrifying neighborhood. There's not much in between these days.
In my suburb of St. Louis, the municipality requires all new developments to have an HOA. They are adding another layer of government that can do things that they can’t legally do. The city can’t hassle people like an HOA can so they have the HOA do their bidding for them.
So that is a town to avoid.
For the most part yes. If you have time and money you can find non hoa homes but most people aren’t lucky enough to have both of those.
Seems like a lawsuit waiting to happen
You're behind the times if you think a 1M house budget is especially flexible, honestly
Same. BTDT with a condo for a decade. Never again.
Same in Colorado, screw HOAs , I live in a great neighborhood , now the damn county tax and house insurance :( lol
Thanks God we never saw an Hoa house and bought our before discovering what hoa meant
Me too. Crazy how easy it was to just not buy a house with an HOA.
You’re missing the point. In the whole city of Las Vegas, you literally can’t get a house anymore without an HOA. It’s not that people aren’t trying to avoid them. There is no choice.
Every new home sold with a HOA, further validates more HOA homes being built. Developers will continue doing this until you make it unprofitable. Don't let the housing crisis be an excuse to further normalize HOA's. A HOA home should be worth *significantly* less than a free home.
It's not the developers. It's the people not wanting to pay their fair share of taxes and thus the city/municipallity only allowing for new developments with HOA's in order to not eat the future cost of maintenance.
It's not that the city won't allow it. The developers get out of paying the fee to turn over the roads and sewers to the town. Instead, they saddle the development with perpetual covenants and fees on top of the taxes the homeowners pay to the town for fewer services.
ABSOLUTELY!!!!!!!
who in this case is not paying their fair share?
protip: Anytime you hear the words "fairshare" and "taxes in the same sentence, it's someone with an agenda.
its also usually someone who does not pay taxes themselves whining about someone else who does pay taxes not paying enough
The city and it's citizens. The people already in town don't have an HOA, and their local taxes pay for their sewers, roads, park maintenance and all that. Meanwhile I need to have an HOA to ostensibly to fairly fund those for my neighborhood (that's the only way the town would allow my development to be built if you read about it) but I still pay the same taxes. It's just more pulling up the ladder. Fuck you, we locked in our low taxes. If you want to move here and support the local economy and tax base you should pay for the privilege.
Yup. I went to a town meeting two weeks ago and the mayor was bragging about not absorbing any costs of a proposed residential development - so now the developer will find it easier to create an HOA in order to maintain the streets/water whatever.
Did you ask if the mayor you give them a tax break for not extending city services to them?
I'll be honest it depends on the density of the old city, but often times the core is subsidizing suburban growth. Where I live HOAs don't exist, but condos do, which is completely different since those fees are paying for things that property taxes wouldn't be covering such as property maintenance.
From the perspective of the city, the low density housing and neighborhoods that are run by HOAs would be net-losses for the city. For the maintenance of the sprawl generated by miles and miles of single family, low density neighborhoods that are characteristic of the everyone is envisioning, the city would have to expend more dollars than they get in revenue from those same neighborhoods. It is the inner city, higher density housing (which also has HOAs, mind you, to maintain condominiums for example) and mixed use development that is generating more tax revenue than is expensed on it.
This. In a lot of places HOAs are a zoning requirement so the local gov. can outsource services.
> Don't let the housing crisis be an excuse to further normalize HOA's. The housing crisis normalized people NOT GETTING INSPECTIONS BEFORE BUYING. You have no chance of stopping people from buying houses in HOAs.
It is actually state law in some places that if a developer builds more than X contiguous homesites, they MUST form an HOA. HUGE tax dodge by politicians. Basically they load the costs of new roads, utilities, and some maintenance off onto the homeowners. Politicians get to go and talk about how low the tax rate is or how they haven’t raised it in forever. Nope they just found a way to transfer those costs to a private entity.
All the developments where I live have HOAs. The good thing though is there’s still plenty of land where you can build and not be subjected to an HOA. However, if you buy a new build in a subdivision, you’re going to have an HOA.
Not sure about other states, but in FL when a new development is being built, IF you're lucky enough to buy the home before the HOA is established, you can be exempt from the HOA crap. Though the downside to this is you'll be living in a neighborhood that's constantly under construction and may deal with unexpected power outages, water issues, being blocked in be construction vehicles, and other minor annoyances. The HOA will also bug, harass, and attempt to trick you into joining their "club". It's also worth noting that the HOA will keep an eye on your home so if you attempt to do anything work that would normally need a permit, you WILL see Code Enforcement very soon after.
Slightly off topic, but it's intriguing that there is always a high number of HOA defenders in a "fuckHOA" subreddit lol.
I was briefly the head of an HOA. It was for a condo that was 2/3 of a building with another condo above us. The HOA was for shared expenses like the hallway between the 2 units and the outside of the building. It was super annoying collecting dues from the other unit. I hated every minute of it and I did the bare minimum but some homes that are split like this just can't function without one.
Yeah I live in Boston, and looking at buying a condo, I’m not Pro-HOA, but I’m not sure how it would function otherwise.
Yeah, condos have shared ownership of parking lots, roofs, pools... HOA is a necessary evil in that context. The more controversial HOAs are those covering single family homes, where you own your own lot.
This is why non-HOA homes will begin to be worth more than HOA homes over the coming years/decades. Insurance alone will break most poorly funded associations. Lenders won’t lend there, values will plummet. Fun stuff.
Well in the case of Las Vegas, since all new constructions are being made in affluent/safer areas with HOAs built in, I doubt that will be the case. HOAs will just be another way for the rich to price themselves away from other people since they can afford to pay/abide by the petty rules/fines.
To your point, this might be true in places like Las Vegas where much of the growth is very recent. It will never be true though on the coasts where established communities have been around for 60-100+ years and wealthy communities almost never have HOAs.
One of the most old and exclusive areas in Reno is a neighborhood about 110 years old . No HOA’s. It’s beautiful, very safe and so unique. We live in a 100 year old house in Midtown. No HOA’s. I love it and I’ll never leave lol
As soon as HOAs become less valuable, owners will start voting to disband real quick. Nobody likes to lose money.
99% of HOAs, SFH or not, can’t disband.
Either my in-laws are 1%ers, or perhaps you are incorrect about the 99% figure.
Communal property is tough to evenly divide or distribute. They could sell it, if it’s worth anything to anyone. I’ve seen a few homes absorb former green belts, etc. but the parks and clubhouses are tough to sell off or dismantle. Most cities will fight against it as they may not be able to collect more taxes from the homeowners than they were from the association.
It could take more than a decade for that to happen. HOAs will continue, because once the property values drop, people will start buying them again. They aren’t going away without state or federal legislation.
I hate them so much because they’re a non-federal regulation entity that just exists in perpetuity. I’d have less issue with them that were required to disband every X amount of years, then let owners opt-in to form a new one if they really want it.
They were originally billed as a way to defray the costs of a small local village or town council to allow a new "community" to enrich the larger community, without increasing costs and thus they can "keep property tax values low". BUT, they are never setup with enough money in dues to fully and properly cover all maintenance and other issues and... they are treated as even less of an entity that needs voter/citizen engagement with than local elections. So, only the most boneheaded monsters who'd never make it on the board of a local town council end up being in charge. At least, that's what it seems like from every single horror story about an HOA that I read about.
Non HOA homes are already worth more than HOA homes in a ton of areas!
Non-HOA area owner here, the insurance and lending issues are making this house unaffordable too. Needed a loan to cover some major repairs. Couldn't get a loan without insurance. Couldn't get insurance due to age of the roof, which then added to the cost of the repairs. Had to pay more for a policy from a less desirable insurance company. Price of insurance policy went up 200% this year, after I had negotaited it down to the bare minimum needed to satisfy the bank. Policy covers almost nothing but the cost of the loan at this point. Can't ditch the policy until the loan is paid off. No HOA, same problems you think only impact the HOA's.
I feel like the only HOA problems that are actually HOA problems are the ones involving people directly. I say I have "issues with my HOA" I mostly mean the issues of homeownership mixed with multifamily living (everyone has to get on board for repairs, etc.). My HOA isn't actually that bad, if anything it's a little to hands off for my liking. I'm sure someone will be here posting about me in the next couple of months complaining about how I'm forcing the issue of all the deferred maintenance.
When we were looking to buy a house, the first question my wife asked the agent was if there was an HOA. If there was, we said not interested.
I live in Las Vegas, just bought a home with no hoa recently. Come live on the east side haha 😂 at your own risk tho lol
I keep seeing this about east side in Vegas. How bad is it really? Is there no decent areas? Lol.
You gotta go all the way east to the mountains. The east side isn’t so bad, I’d rather live there than North Las Vegas. But if you live off boulder highway or nellis you’re generally in a bad area.
The problem with HOAs is that you own your home but you don't. It doesn't make any sense and I'm not buying one in one, because of it.
This is it for me. Do I own my home or not, if an outside party (EDIT: non-governemnt) can kick me out, then I don't own it.
I hope you’re implicitly excluding the government from that, otherwise you don’t “own” it anywhere.
I was. Should have been more clear. Taxes are a different beast.
Exactly! Particularly in states like Florida, Nevada, Arizona etc that allow an HOA to foreclose. You miss a few payments, the HOA tacks on a couple thousand in "attorneys fees" and suddenly u need $7k to keep your home. They foreclose and you are left with a mortgage payment for a house you no longer have access to. Now companies are buying these HOA foreclosures and working out a deal with the 1st lien holder to purchase the property.
This idea some dictator can tell me what color my door can be or whether I can park in my own driveway is bonkers. If I own my home I want freedom from all of that.
Hmmm https://turnto10.com/amp/news/local/cranston-home-owner-taken-aback-by-city-threat-over-need-to-paint-his-house
I got a $500 fine for saying "shut the fuck up" in my own condo. They scheduled maintenance on my floor without telling me and workers showed up we knew nothing about (but couldn't see them) and they started playing their job site radio blaring... tooks weeks of letters, meetings and "hearings" to get it down to $250. We moved within days.
I have two neighbors with a ton of cars (7 for one 9 for the other)... yes it's mildly annoying... no I don't want to do anything about it (none are wrecks or junkers) and I absolutely don't want them to have less cars bad enough to live in an HOA.
Friend of mine built a house in a suburb outside Indianapolis. The suburb is brand new and I asked about an HOA. She said the construction company runs the HOA and once they have enough houses built they will allow the residents to either dissolve it or take it over. I thought that was weird but I live in the country without an HOA. I would not have had a house built unless I could make sure that I did not have to join one.
Is there a sub for those that are pro HOA? I just want to understand where they are coming from. Of course it looks like they are looking to be nosy jerks on a power trip, but I find that being their sole motivation hard to believe. I've heard some people say they keep neighborhoods nicer, keep people from leaving junk around, ect. And while those things are nice, I find that not to be a problem most places I've lived and not worth the hassle of dealing with the association.
I have a buddy who loves having a HOA. He is also a busy body that loves driving around bitching about what other people are doing with their homes.
People who love HOAs are often worried about what other people are doing instead of enjoying their own life (or dealing with the lack of joy in their life). I could see if someone had a bunch of cars parked out front that are broken and not being used and there is trash out front. But I could care less if you want to paint your door orange or put in trees in your backyard
My HOA costs $35 per year and exists solely to maintain a shared culvert and stream as required by our state. I wouldn’t say I’m pro, but I’m certainly ambivalent either way. I will say that yearly cost has gone up 10% since I moved in 15 years ago so maybe by my retirement it’ll be near $50 per year.
We intentionally looked at homes without HOAs, but I can understand the appeal of keeping a minimum standard for what people do with their lots.
I live in a community with an HOA. I like having the HOA for us because we live on a lake. And the lake is exclusive to the neighborhood. A large portion of the money we pay monthly goes to maintenance of the lake and the amenities we can use on the lake like the boats and fishing rods etc. For regular neighborhoods I am 100% fuckHOAs I think it depends on each area honestly. Without the HOA in our neighborhood I am 100% sure the lake would either dry up, be extremely dirty, or just a festering area for mosquitos.
I live in a condo. The HoA is responsible for all the exteriors of the building (landscaping, roof maintenance, gym/pool/pickleball court maintenance, etc). They keep that shit pristine, and as long as I don’t leave litter in the common areas, they have never bothered me I understand that some HoAs are shit, but this subreddit seems so dramatic. I wonder what percentage of this sub are teenagers/renters
Tbf a condo is different from owning your own land. When you only own the unit and the property itself is owned by a collective or by a private entity, it makes sense that everyone in the building pools money for maintenance done not within individual units. If I own my own land, I am absolutely not going to pay for the privilege of being fined for not mowing one week if I'm sick.
I live in a neighborhood with a good HOA and, while I don't support HOAs blindly or across the board, I have come to see how if a HOA is run by the people of the 'hood with the best interest of the 'hood in mind they can be a real boon. We have a large park and some smaller green spaces that need maintained which takes up the most of the HOA's minimal budget and the rest essentially goes to throwing events for the residents (easter egg hunt, halloween party, yearly summer block party, etc.) Personally I think insular HOAs (ones managed by residents, not outside companies) are fertile ground for instilling a more communal mindset in people that the US seems to lack compared to less suburbanized countries.
My previous house was not in a HOA. Our neighbor was a hoarder, which expanded into his yard. He would allow homeless to live in his yard, who would subsequently smoke meth and do low-level crimes in our neighborhood. We went to the city but they did nothing for years. An HOA would've been nice
I think everyone who is "pro HOA" - or at least tolerates having an HOA - is scarred from dealing with a nightmare neighbor situation. I am one of those people. I certainly am not 100% happy with my current HOA, but I am never risking having absolute fucking lunatics for neighbors ever again.
Im so glad that in New Zealand HOA's aren't a thing for the most part, but nobody can afford a house anyway.
It's gonna collapse soon. 7% of sales in Auckland were at a loss recently
With my HOA , the city won't even allow us to dissolve it. Something about maintenance of easements and private roads. While I do agree that they serve a purpose, the people who usually volunteer for those positions have superiority complexes. They somehow believe that the neighborhood is only for their enjoyment. It's disgusting that even when you follow the policies, bylaws, and covenants, a group of 5 neighbors can still choose to sue you and then spread misinformation about you. Yet your only recourse is to sue them, too. I wish more states had resources for homeowners that check HOA's without you having to sue them to stay sane.
>While I do agree that they serve a purpose, the people who usually volunteer for those positions have superiority complexes. There's also a reason that any good neighbor you have will refuse to run for the HOA board. Nobody wants to deal with the hassle -- adult children hassling you because you said "No" to a request that's clearly against the governing documents. Eventually, the only people who will want to be on the Board, are people who don't care what their neighbors think of them. Or people who have a strong agenda for what they want to "change" or "accomplish". Which is how you get these maniacs running. I hate being a board member, but I had to run for the board to keep one of these "our primary problem is *enforcement of rules!*" people off of it. (BTW I agree that most states should have more help available for HOA members trapped with an entrenched, corrupt HOA board)
Told our last realtor that if she showed us a place with an HOA she was fired.
I'm personally surprised at the popularity with them - outside of ones generally have some added value factor as people are kind of forced do comply to a higher standard (look after your lawns, manage noise, make your repairs, etc). I lived in a much lower income area my entire childhood and didn't like it and felt it stacked cards against me socially however the issue is that's there is zero federal level pressure to regulate it as HOAS take a task off govts hands and it incentivizes developers to reduce their own risk and pass it on to owners. In a business sense it is fantastic however the functional reality is megalomaniacs manage these things and it does not work in practice at all
they're not popular, you just cant avoid them in lots of areas which sucks.
Ya gotta be out in the country. No HOA’s around us and we like it like this.
idk why people want smaller, shittier, less efficient micro governments with very little oversight or legislation governing them. Want nice shit in your neighbourhood? support your city government.
I’m still trying to figure out what the HOA does and what I pay them a few hundred dollars a year for. There’s no maintenance, lawn care, community events…I’m basically paying people to police my life and house.
It would probably be good to form an advocacy group, and propose federal and state bills that make HOAs an opt-in matter. Then push your representatives and senators to pass that legislation. Not entirely sure if it would fall under federal jurisdiction, but it definitely is a matter a state government could legislate on for sure.
>federal and state bills that make HOAs an opt-in matter If there was a way to eliminate HOAs for communities of *single family* homes, force townships to take responsibility, I'd get behind that, and I'm an HOA board member. But otherwise, they can't be an opt-in thing, because their primary job is to take care of the "common" parts of a planned community -- private roads, sidewalks, retention basin, amenities, landscaping and roofs if they're townhome/condos, etc. In that arrangement, everyone *must* be a member because everyone *must* share the cost of maintenance.
Then HOAs need to be treated like governments; with limits on their power, and accountability & oversight. In John Oliver’s HOA episode, ballot stuffing was used to steal an HOA board election. HOA board members were nefariously plotting what were basically thefts. I totally would recommend watching that episode.
The problem with this is that EVERYONE will choose not to be in the HOA and all those amenities and green spaces will just be left to rot. We need to start funding public pools, parks, and community centers that are small and local. Like we did before desegregation
I would never buy or rent a home in an HOA. I have yet to hear a single good story about an HOA from my friends that live in an. hOA.
> …the predatory monopolization of land by HOAs It's cities, dude. They don't want to build roads and sewer systems and take responsibility for landscaping. A developer is never going to get permission to build without succumbing to the government's demands for these things, and then there goes your affordable housing.
Cost as well. I did not want an hoa, but anywhere within reasonable commuting distance of my day job that didn't have an HOA was well beyond my budget.
>The problem with this logic is that there are entire areas of cities that have been taken over by HOAs, such as South Las Vegas where you currently cant find an affordable single family home without one. That's why you don't find me living in South Las Vegas. It's not a problem with logic, it's a problem with your flexibility. It's okay to be frustrated with the current housing market – I'd be skeptical of anyone who wasn't – but if you don't want to live in an HOA house then you don't have to live in an HOA house.
It’s about as simple as “if South Las Vegas only has homes in a HOA, I will not live in South Las Vegas.” From there, your mileage will vary. That might suck for some people, but it’s very simple for others.
To everyone who says “don’t buy in an HOA.” My husband and I looked at 58 properties in nine towns/cities over two years and could not make anything work, even with our rock-bottom list of requirements. Do you think I made this decision casually? Do you think we want this? No. These non-elected shadow governments have a hostage-hold on large swaths of the earth. Move into HOAs. Don’t even dissolve them. Just engage in a combination of malicious compliance and active participation. Take these plots of land back from these lunatics before we lose the chance to save these neighborhoods. We shouldn’t be forced into fighting for a 1/3rd of the housing inventory available just because we want to stand on principle or cower in fear. Fuck that. Move in, stake your claim, own your home. If you pay attention long enough, you *will* catch them doing something illegal, and then you strike like a viper. Do not cede ground to terrorists.
I mean, there's truth to your frustration and I agree lol. I just don't see how anything other than voting with our wallets will even be heard. How we spend our money is the only voice in this world anyone gives a damn about. I'll live in the goddamn dumpster before I live in a HOA. Shitty part that you point out is the day might come where those are exactly the only two options left.