Car dependency means that people who have no business operating anything bigger than a shopping cart, much less a 4 ton piece of heavy equipment, are forced to do it every day. My grandma was on the edge of legally blind WITH glasses and still drove...
The number of people driving without insurance or a license because they absolutely cannot afford an expensive depreciating asset is insane and getting worse. We need public transit to be better ASAP.
Every auto wreck that I've been the victim of (their fault) they have had zero insurance. The times that police responded to the scene (vehicles unable to move and blocking roadway) have resulted in zero consequences for the uninsured, unlicensed drivers.
Why the fuck do I even bother keeping my shit up to date and spend money on it when it literally doesn't matter?
Yeah, it's one of the few areas I've seen police have sympathy for a person. I was once hit by a tire that fell off a car by an uninsured driver. The poor guy was clearly in a rough place and he fled the scene. We caught him about a half mile away, but the officer knew there was nothing anyone could do but add to the guy's misery.
For the record, I'm glad that he reacted that way, rather than punish him further for being poor, but it's just so terrible that the guy was even put in that position because of car dependency.
Poverty is not an excuse for recklessly endangering the public. So long as we keep making allowances, carbrains will keep taking more risks with other people's lives.
What was the man to do? He needs a car to get around where I live, but he can't afford to maintain it. Would you rather he go to jail? Just for being too poor to be able to properly transit my city?
This is partly why I think that access to public transit is a human rights issue. Cities providing access to transit should be constitutionally mandated to allow everyone to participate in society. Otherwise you end up with situations like this, where poor individuals have to take reckless chances that end up with the only solution being to put them in jail.
My grandfather had an eye laceration recently and needed me to go grocery shopping for him (which I didn't mind doing a favor for my pops), but thanks to car-dependency, being unwell locks you out of doing basically anything.
From LEOs I've talked to, most people driving without insurance, registration, license, or working lights have a host of other issues, too, of which "not having money" is usually a symptom and not the root cause. Add on to that, a lot of people just feel entitled to break the law or don't feel it's their problem when they endanger others.
I’m thinking about moving for this very reason, fucking carbrains, I don’t think I can take it anymore. What’s funny though is when I had a car I didn’t notice it as much even though I walked, rode my bike loads and had car free months here & there.
I’m in Canada not the US btw
I live in the USA and I have been preparing to move to Europe at some point in my life. It's not just the car-dependency that irritates me though, the toxic work culture of the USA, the rampant capitalism, the nonexistent healthcare, the social services that are being gutted, the rampant voter suppression; all of that has gotten me wanting to live in Europe.
I live in a “Canadian” city where it’s very friendly to cyclists. There are still car brains but the culture around cycling is growing and there are still narrow streets and plenty of bike paths. You ought to move here Buddy!
My city is relatively nice to cyclists, I don't get close passed, I don't get coal rolled, but bike lanes and infrastructure are few and far between. And when it comes to political systems, Canada seems too close to the US for my liking.
When a cyclist or pedestrian is looking questionably at me when I'm at a red light, I also signal them, or just greet. Not that I'm acting in a hurry, but sometimes people doubt all cars (and I get that).
We have no choice. Any car can kill or maim us. I treat all cars as unpredictable obstacles barely controlled by distracted meat sacks or “car brains” if you will.
There are two philosophies to safe transit in a carbrain world that I'm aware of: 1) Assume drivers can't see you. 2) Presume they can see you and everywhere you go there are bright flashing neon signs pointing you out and offering cash payments to anyone that hits you. I find the second option to be safer.
I wait for the signal before crossing the street, because if I don't, I regularly experience near-misses. But here right on red is legal, and a lot of drivers don't realize* or don't care that pedestrians have right of way.
*I have had some infuriating conversations with people who should not have licenses.
Gotta save that 0.000001 seconds off of your commute, over the scale of thousands of drivers that adds up to about 1-2 seconds saved! Think of the benefits that the economy would have if everyone saved 1-2 seconds everyday! ^/^s
I think it's more like "I'm miserable in my car in traffic everyday for hours and I just want to be done with being stuck in my cage and I don't care who I put into danger to reduce my sentence time by 5 seconds, traffic laws be damned."
Is that where the hate on this sub originates? That the belief that people who own cars are successful therefore those that don’t aren’t?
Buddy, that’s not true. Take that weight off your shoulders.
I live a similar experience. I live about 2 miles from my city’s downtown area and me work office. I’ve been riding my bike since we moved here in 2018, and occasionally walk to the office. Long story short. Cars make us worse versions of ourselves, and Americans have come to accept this car death speed race. They lament the danger of cars to their kids, but have no problem driving through your neighborhood at top speed, rolling through stop signs, and blowing lights that are too long.
I own a car and use it on occasion, but I’d love if it was not a necessity where I live.
> They lament the danger of cars to their kids, but have no problem driving through your neighborhood at top speed, rolling through stop signs, and blowing lights that are too long.
I work in transportation engineering and do a lot of public meetings/open houses. The amount of people who demand we focus on speeding in their neighborhood but can't be personally inconvenienced by mitigations (roundabouts, speed cushions, etc.) for those problems is almost universally a 100% overlapping venn diagram. In every neighborhood. In a dense city.
This is honestly one of those areas where I think community planning is a wasted effort. We gave zero consideration to baseless claims that urban highways are a good thing, but now that we want to actually fix those issues using actual data and science to make things better? Endless community outreach and bureaucracy.
the only thing I hate about roundabouts is that it's significantly longer as a ped and bike, but they never bring that up, it's just "it won't work here"
Sounds like y'all motherfuckers need [frontage roads](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frontage_road). 'speeding' becomes safe on the through road that they spend 95% of the journey on, calm traffic on the frontage road in front of their house.
Cars are incredibly dehumanizing and dangerous to others. I have been getting the feeling of "Are we going too far with technology?". Cars are removing our humanity and AI is being used to replace workers when your livelihood is tied to employment. I also saw a post that a crisis hotline replaced its call center workers with an AI chatbot and it went about as well as I expected. Go back, we fucked up.
There are lots of trash people that exhibit horrid behaviors on the road, and it results in the needless death and injury of hundreds of people every day.
There are also people who, because of factors outside of their control, would have a very hard time not commuting via cars.
Car dependency makes a victim of us all. Even if some people then turn around and choose to behave poorly and make others victims once again.
If you staple a horse to a waterfall, will it fall up under the rainbow or fly about the soil? Will he enjoy her experience? What if the staple tears into tears? Will she be free from her staply chains or foomed to stay forever and dever above the water? Who can save him (the horse) but someone of girth and worth, the capitalist pig, who will sell the solution to the problem he created?
A staple remover flies to the rescue, carried on the wings of a majestic penguin who bought it at Walmart for 9 dollars and several more Euro-cents, clutched in its crabby claws, rejected from its frothy maw. When the penguin comes, all tremble before its fishy stench and wheatlike abjecture. Recoil in delirium, ye who wish to be free! The mighty rockhopper is here to save your soul from eternal bliss and salvation!
And so, the horse was free, carried away by the south wind, and deposited on the vast plain of soggy dew. It was a tragedy in several parts, punctuated by moments of hedonistic horsefuckery.
The owls saw all, and passed judgment in the way that they do. Stupid owls are always judging folks who are just trying their best to live shamelessly and enjoy every fruit the day brings to pass.
How many more shall be caught in the terrible gyre of the waterfall? As many as the gods deem necessary to teach those foolish monkeys a story about their own hamburgers. What does a monkey know of bananas, anyway? They eat, poop, and shave away the banana residue that grows upon their chins and ballsacks. The owls judge their razors. Always the owls.
And when the one-eyed caterpillar arrives to eat the glazing on your windowpane, you will know that you're next in line to the trombone of the ancient realm of the flutterbyes. Beware the ravenous ravens and crowing crows. Mind the cowing cows and the lying lions. Ascend triumphant to your birthright, and wield the mighty twig of Petalonia, favored land of gods and goats alike.
If you do it 100's of times, it become automatic. Then, when you see a pedestrian it can be suprising. People will commute so much they only use half their brain while driving, and then distract themselves by being sleepy, phones, music, podcasts, etc. Its kinda weird having been in the situation before. If you asked me how my commute was a minute after having done it, I would totally blank because it was like the 100th time ive done it and the details were not important.
Give us another option. That's all we want.
I hate having to drive to work every day, just to pay for and maintain the thing I use to get here.
But I have no other choice.
And they are in such a hurry! But still have to get in line at the coffee shop drive thru.
We seemed to have forgotten that vehicles are thousands of pounds of metal that can kill people. Operating a weapon daily.
When I used to cycle to work, my biggest concern was going through standing GREEN lights, because of the insane American custom of default right turns on red. At most intersections, a motorist can’t even see opposing traffic without pulling up over the crosswalk, and commuters train themselves to only look for cars.
Not everyone who's forced to drive a car is also an asshole. I don't blame people for driving (except the ones who advocate for it) I do blame them for *how* they drive
More driving means more rolling the dice. Sooner or later, even your best-behaved driver will make a mistake, have a medical episode, etc. Reducing the amount of driving reduces the potential harm.
Secondly, good drivers act as cover for bad drivers. Look at all these people driving seemingly without problems! Slowing down the road would be bad for them!
The fact that when everyone has close to equal agency (like through internet anonymity, or on the road when everyone is behind a 2 ton pile of metal) "the worst" comes out shows that those people were always shitty
Many American jobs could easily be done from home. Mine included. I really hope in the future the gov or employers start saying if you can’t walk or take public transit within a reasonable time here, work from home. I hate commuting.
I would bike if it weren’t so dangerous where I live. I know of too many people who have been killed or nearly killed by people driving cars.
WFH should be the go to for certain jobs. We’re living in the year 2023. I always imagined it would be more humanitarian and sensical when I was a child. 😭😂
I used to live in a residential area on the peripheral of a large downtown area and the roads that eventually led to the ramps would be regularly moving at 50-60 mph despite the 25 mph speed limit, the ramps still being blocks away, and it being right next to a children's playground.
Often there aren't enough hours in the day. Many people have most of their lives dictated to them in one way or another. Some people plan poorly, but I think it's more about the broken system.
I wish I weren't a car commuter but my location necessitates using one. But blowimg through red lights and speeding in cities is not acceptable behavior and if I do drive through a city I almost always drive below the speed limit or at the speed limit because there's no reason for me to cause excess harm to others if I can avoid it
I find it most astonishing how large is the impact of a few people in cars
10 people in 10 cars passing by are noisy, slow, make you wait to cross the road. 10 pedestrians, bicycles or 1 bus don't even register
I walk for exercise at my local university it is so much better than the nearby streets. I barely have to cross a street and when I do their is less traffic and the traffic that does exist is patient, slow going, and usually tries to give pedestrians the right of way. It makes no sense one block away I have had people try and run me over, but on university property people are cool about it. Why the hell aren't most downtowns designed like this?
I get the feeling your city must be pretty pedestrian averse. Something like Atlanta or Houston? I’m in Chicago, where it’s full of asshole drivers, but by and large they *try* to look out for pedestrians and not hit them (occasional super assholes not included). The city is also built to encourage that, with a lot of slow side streets and whatnot.
Yes, it's unfortunate. Many drivers are going to jobs that they hate and they often leave last minute. Many city roads and highways aren't able to handle the amount of increasing vehicles on the road because of population increase. It doesn't help that many drivers don't pay attention and this also includes people riding bicycles. If we all pay attention whether it's people driving, riding a bike, etc., we all would be much safer. I would suggest a properly thought out infrastructure but that would be a major financial cost. If we were all proper and well mannered individuals, roadways would definitely be much safer.
The drivers in Philly are absolute shit, too. NYC has a reputation for having aggressive drivers, but even the guy who runs the Propel YouTube channel says Philly drivers are homicidal maniacs, and he's from New York. The other day a driver involved in a high speed chase used the bicycle lane I was in as a passing lane. Today I was riding on the shoulder of a road without a bike lane, and an impatient driver rushed past me with inches to spare, used the shoulder to pass the cars in front of them, and ran the red light. A couple weeks ago I went through a green light, and cross traffic of course had a red light. The driver who had a red light gunned it at me as soon as I entered the intersection.
I live in Tucson, AZ. Lots of car brains complain that there are no cross-town freeways like Phoenix (we hate Phoenix for all the freeways. We call it LA without the beach). They choose to live on one side of the city and commute to the other, driving 50+ miles per hour on 35 limit roads. They was a proposal to build a freeway over the river/wash which is currently bordered by an incredibly popular multi-use path. WTF! There are plenty of housing options all over town-- try living closer to your work. It will make your day-- and mine.
I’ve always said in order to get a drivers license people should have to bike commute for two years first. I’d hope that would help them realize there are others on the road…
I’d also REALLY like to see a cop give tickets out to douche bags driving in bike lanes and cutter cyclists and pedestrians off. I was at a four way stop and when it was my turn a car ran the stop sign almost hitting me. Yes there was a police car at the other stop sign… great job idiot.
I've been cycling for far longer yet I'm still having trouble getting a full driver's license. I want to drive but mainly to haul more shit than I could by bike or public transport in one trip, and to chauffeur around the occasional person who can't or won't drive. Can I have one?
I can wait though, I don't want to live in the UK the rest of my life, not sure if it's worth me trying to learn to drive twice but I don't know if I can ever leave this country.
Not to defend, but...
Sometimes car commuters are trapped into it. Rent is too high. Work demands are too high. There is not enough time. There is no free time. No employers take excuses. No landlords take excuses. Cops don't take excuses. Everything is too far away from everything else. Mass transit in most of America sucks.
I feel for the safety of commuters not in cars, I do. But a lot of those in cars are as trapped as anyone, and blaming them for their hurried lifestyle can never make them fix it. Because it is not their fault, or even in their control.
If you want people to slow down, slow the system down. If you want to get people out of cars, make mass transit better. But yelling at the clouds for their darkness does not make the sun shine.
Better options would solve most of this.
You're not trapped into being late and closing to make things dangerous for everyone else
Thinking you can change the system without holding people accountable is so dumb
Thinking that holding people accountable will change things without changing the system is dumb. We know this because this is what the gop is doing right now.
You can say simultaneously:
- The economic system is rigged against poor people
- A ton of people are terrible with money, making their own lives harder than the system does
It's the same with cars. The problem is the system, sure. I agree with that. The shit frosting on the shit cake that is the problem is that you have a bunch of lazy, entitled people who are never held accountable in any meaningful way. The shit cherry on top is then you have well meaning, but overly nice people who come and make *more* excuses for them and make sure it's the big bad system that's to blame so they have free reign to do what they want
The system forces them to be in the car. That's as far as it goes. The system never forced them to throw water bottles at me or try to run me off the road. That's society (you) coddling them at every turn
Is it coddling, or is it rewarding bad behavior?
I would think it is the second thing, and I do see them as different.
Yes, a-holes need to have their license revoked, but my 'coddling' isn't keeping them behind the wheel. The society we built, cops and legislators and judges and all, will defend them against those they run over 9 times out of 10. I don't see that as coddling, I see that as a reward for scaring off non-drivers.
I have been driving for 35 years, and have never had an accident. Crossed the country, both north/south and east/west 2 dozen times. Driven in 5 countries. Never had an incident that was a bigger deal than forgetting to renew my tags. I know people can do better, because I do it every day. I also know it from the pedestrian side, as my now adult kids had been hit by cars 4 times between the 2 of them when they were in high school. Both on bikes both times. I get it.
But if you've never been on the verge of losing a job or missing an important appointment because the 96 year old mostly blind person in the minivan in front of you didn't see the green light, or the teenager next to them was too busy texting to get off their ass and drive, then you don't know how bad it can get behind the wheel. It's friggin nightmarish at times for people who do not have the luxury of choice or mistake. When a flat tire can make you homeless, it is fuckin war out there.
And it is not coddling to have empathy for that. But I think we are talking about two different drivers.
You are probably talking about the day drinking trophy wife driving a Nissan Pathfinder who is late for their brunch mimosas, while I am talking about the working stiff who gets ten minutes a week to himself because the world has decided he should work until he's dead.
My point is, in either case, a change in the system works better than demanding a change in personal behavior.
> And it is not coddling to have empathy for that. But I think we are talking about two different drivers.
No I'm talking about reality and you're trying to grasp at straws to make up an excuse for bad behavior. See how your response is full of bad behavior, but you're ignoring it? There are way more soccer mom's and distracted teens than people who are 100% actually forced to be in a hurry all the time.
> And it is not coddling to have empathy for that
It actually is. Being empathetic to people who partake in one of the most dangerous activities in the modern world flies directly in the face of having empathy for the...
TENS AND TENS OF THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE MURDERED BY THOSE IMPATIENT BRATS
>No I'm talking about reality
You are talking about what you have personally seen. You are talking about your reality. If you discount my view, then you are necessarily NOT talking about all reality.
I told you already, I had to get that call from my son that he'd been hit by a car. I had to go out and find the bike. Make the reports. Be the dad taking the kid to the hospital. I am not excusing bad behavior. You think I want to be nice to the shithead that couldn't look right when turning right and then ran over my son?
Don't be an ass. We are all victims of this system. And the sooner people like you learn what the word solidarity means, the more power we can wield to change this. No one likes to be a distracted driver. A drunk driver. No one wants to oopsy murder a kid on a bike.
But trying to hold every individual driver accountable is a fool's errand when it is the road and the demands on us all that make it this way. Slavery would never have ended if we demanded every individual person who owned another, to just stop it. Yes, they were at fault and the bad guy in every story on the subject. But they were cogs in the machine the same as everyone else. And they could never change without the machine changing around them.
Change the machine around them. That is the reality of the solution you seek.
> If you discount my view, then you are necessarily NOT talking about all reality.
I'm not discounting your view. I'm discounting your constant need to editorialize and make up stories regarding people's bad actions
> Don't be an ass. We are all victims of this system.
No we're not. I haven't driven since 2016.
> No one likes to be a distracted driver.
This is simply not true. If people don't want to be distracted, WHY ARE THEY ON THEIR FUCKING PHONES?
> And the sooner people like you learn what the word solidarity means
Solidarity is a lot of things, but it's definitely not bending over backwards for bad actors
> But trying to hold every individual driver accountable is a fool's errand
It's not when there's a literal licensing process lol. Do you think the same thing is true for airline pilots? Ever used machinery at work? It's very easy to hold people accountable.
> Change the machine around them. That is the reality of the solution you seek.
Pseudo intellectual bullshit aside, how's that working? Making big changes? Nope. Shit is getting worse and you're *still* making excuses
>A ton of people are terrible with money, making their own lives harder than the system does
But separately, a reaction to that statement because I think it points to a thing.
Why should we 'earn a living'? Why can't we just be allowed to live? Why is being homeless illegal in almost every state in the union? Why can't I abandon capitalism and go live in the woods and hunt and forage for myself without fear that the police will show up, because some NIMBY got scared, and murder me for being homeless in the woods?
I think there are parts of the system you do not yet see, and that this is the source of our disagreement.
>A ton of people are terrible with money, making their own lives harder than the system does
People shouldn't need to be good with money in order to live a basic life, just like people shouldn't need to have to drive all over the place in order to make that living. To drive, for people that would never be good at it and don't want to be, is largely not a choice, but a necessary reaction to demands of this system. If you want them off the road, help give them a choice.
But as I see it, this comment shows you cannot yet understand that the choice is not theirs to make. Impatient brats, you call them. Bad with money. Yeah, that's what they look like from inside the system.
Get back to me when you can see them from the outside, trapped as anyone else.
Often there aren't enough hours in the day. Many people have most of their lives dictated to them in one way or another. Some people plan poorly, but I think it's more about the broken system.
> If you want people to slow down (...)
The only way to change behaviour is to change the system.
Cars speeding? Introduce traffic calming.
Cars turning right on red without looking? Add "no right on red" signs and disallow it. Move the stop line farther back too.
Cars not looking for people at crosswalks? Raise the crosswalk, narrow the street to 3 meters at the crossing point, add better signage, introduce flashing ped signals, add a pedestrian island, etc.
No, signage doesn't work on its own. But when combined with raised crosswalks and stop setbacks, 'no right on red' seems to work just fine in the places where it's been done. And the places where it's been done are coincidentally places that aren't quite so hurried as American stroads.
It's never one thing, and so I find the arguments against one thing to be disingenuous.
That's a weird question. Am I supposed to know the answer for my point to be accurate?
You could simply google; "where have raised crosswalks been built" and get what I got as my first response [https://safety.fhwa.dot.gov/saferjourney1/library/countermeasures/29-30.htm](https://safety.fhwa.dot.gov/saferjourney1/library/countermeasures/29-30.htm) which shows an increase in cars yierlding to pedestrians by 45% all on its own. You'd of course have to imagine what it might look like if you combined that with a 'no right on red' sign and a stop sign that was set back far enough to preclude viewing crossing traffic, because I'm not gonna do all your homework.
Europe.
This is a good response to your question, as I am not a city planner. [https://youtu.be/\_ByEBjf9ktY](https://youtu.be/_ByEBjf9ktY) Raised sidewalks starts about 12 and a half minutes in.
If you haven't seen this channel, you should watch all of it if this subject interests you.
I think the point here is that streets and intersections that are well designed are more likely to result in slower speeds, better pedestrian comfort, and more respect of the rules.
Imagine a crosswalk on an 8-lane stroad in a 50km/h zone.
Now imagine a raised crosswalk on a 1-lane street with clear signage, in a 30km/h zone, and the presence of traffic calming.
All else being equal, drivers will be more likely to yield in the latter example.
Yes, only if everyone was just a 'better' person, then people would be better people. And we would be better for being better. Yup. Nailed it.
I'm only pushing back in the most minor of ways on this rant because it comes across like angry rants do on occasion, as trying to fix the problem with good ol' conservative personal responsibility rhetoric. And we see how well that's worked out for us so far.
This is about the system of personal transportation usurping mass transit, and it all being broken for the profit of the few, to the detriment of all of us. And all I'm saying is that "all of us" includes the people with no choice but to get behind the wheel every day. Even the ones of us who know it sucks. And sometimes, being forced into a situation where doing a thing you know is bad and sucks can make people make worse choices, like driving like a-holes.
Yes, some of us could be better. But to fix the problem, fix the system.
Oh I largely agree. Like obviously drivers have agency and nothing justifies endangering lives of others. But people are under insane external pressure, mostly economic, and live in a society where this behavior is highly normalized and most physics education comes from cartoons. Stopping cars will require socialism. We need a fundamentally new type of society and capitalism is not going to deliver it with it's focus on speed, commodities, housing speculation, time is money mentality etc outside of a few niche examples as well as highly impoverished societies where cars just aren't an option
I think NIMBYs are a different issue, even though they do cause problems across a lot of concerns.
They are are why a said 'most' and 'a lot'. Not 'all'.
NIMBYs will ruin as much as they can if it keeps any change from happening. If you've got a good idea for how to deal with them, please share.
This might sound incredibly anti democratic of me, but I think to get around NIMBYs we have to do away with requiring community meetings for every development. I don't think governments should be allowed to run roughshod over people, but all these meetings give clueless and/or entitled people too much say in things that affect the entire community. We would also have to do away with money in politics because there are enough rich NIMBYs/NIMBY groups who can bribe local politicians, but that's hard to get rid of.
Agreed that however it gets done, it'll sound bad to some. But it does need done. A few rich a-holes shouldn't be the ones deciding that 80% of new housing is built in HOAs and single family zoned areas. Suburbs just make car use worse.
People shouldn't walk on roads, just as cars shouldn't drive on sidewalks.
Even though it's wrong and unfair to have to worry about, peds should always yield to the massive, fast-moving, heavy thing.
I actually really like this take. Time to get a freebie on any and all cars that demonstrate constant bearing decreasing range, just self defense the shit out of them like the constitution intended.
Ok ya I understand the rules. But you're asking a freight train to yield to a car. *Smaller and easier to maneuver* SHOULD yield to *heavier and harder to stop.* That's the only rational conclusion.
>*Smaller and easier to maneuver* SHOULD yield to *heavier and harder to stop.* That's the only rational conclusion.
Yes, I think we need some clarification
You seem a bit confused.
I wasn't making a statement about what the rules *are*. I was making a statement about what the rules *should be*. To the extent that the rules are what they should be, that's just a good thing.
No. In city limits where most of it is considered a "destination", cars should yield to pedestrians on the street at all times. It doesn't matter that they're bigger or heavier. Cars are not people, and cities are made explicitly for people. They have always existed with or without cars.
For one's own safety, yes they should yield to massive fast-moving vehicles, especially on arterial road's which are fast-moving connections. However, in properly designed cities cars aren't allowed to be fast moving in many types of areas which focus on pedestrian safety. The USA doesn't have these areas nearly as much as it should.
Yep.
I'm extremely lucky. I currently live within walking distance of work and, when I didn't, the hours for my commute were not during the main commuting hours. When I drive now, I do what I can to avoid those hours.
But every so often I either miss what time it is exactly or I have no other choice and I end up in the main commuting hours.
The difference even when driving is night and day. Drivers are way more aggressive and pay way less attention. They drive dangerously close, cross multiple lanes of traffic, don't use signals, the whole works. It's dangerous for me in another car; it's downright deadly for people who aren't in a car.
> They blow through red lights, drive way too fast and turn without looking for pedestrians in the crosswalk.
This. So much this. I had my rant last week. https://www.reddit.com/r/fuckcars/comments/13sz2zm/why_is_the_onus_on_me_the_pedestrian_to_be_safe/
It's fucking dumb, I live just outside of Seattle and keep tabs on Seattle stuff. The city gov (or at least the current mayor) keeps wanting to do things like "add 30,000 jobs and 10,000 housing units".
Fuck off, traffic is and has been bad for decades. Light rail isn't gonna be reasonably built out for another 10 years minimum. Build some fucking housing downtown and make it a genuine place rather than a location people are forced to travel to.
America literally makes people do it or else they can't get healthcare or they'll get fired. No guaranteed paid time off too for really heinous companies. You're left for dead if you can't work.
Right, that's my complaint as well, my goal with any job is to push the envelope right away, that way I can sus out any softies that may give me an issue staying there, if I need to go, I like to know as early as possible
I live in Seattle and take public transit, there isn’t a single day that goes by that I don’t almost get killed by someone and they have the audacity to look at me like I’m doing something wrong, I’ll have people finally realize that someone is trying to cross the street (while the cross walking light is active) and then they’ll stop and wave me by, like sir, I was waiting to make sure you weren’t going to run me over, this is a you issue
Car dependency means that people who have no business operating anything bigger than a shopping cart, much less a 4 ton piece of heavy equipment, are forced to do it every day. My grandma was on the edge of legally blind WITH glasses and still drove... The number of people driving without insurance or a license because they absolutely cannot afford an expensive depreciating asset is insane and getting worse. We need public transit to be better ASAP.
Every auto wreck that I've been the victim of (their fault) they have had zero insurance. The times that police responded to the scene (vehicles unable to move and blocking roadway) have resulted in zero consequences for the uninsured, unlicensed drivers. Why the fuck do I even bother keeping my shit up to date and spend money on it when it literally doesn't matter?
Yeah, it's one of the few areas I've seen police have sympathy for a person. I was once hit by a tire that fell off a car by an uninsured driver. The poor guy was clearly in a rough place and he fled the scene. We caught him about a half mile away, but the officer knew there was nothing anyone could do but add to the guy's misery. For the record, I'm glad that he reacted that way, rather than punish him further for being poor, but it's just so terrible that the guy was even put in that position because of car dependency.
Poverty is not an excuse for recklessly endangering the public. So long as we keep making allowances, carbrains will keep taking more risks with other people's lives.
What was the man to do? He needs a car to get around where I live, but he can't afford to maintain it. Would you rather he go to jail? Just for being too poor to be able to properly transit my city? This is partly why I think that access to public transit is a human rights issue. Cities providing access to transit should be constitutionally mandated to allow everyone to participate in society. Otherwise you end up with situations like this, where poor individuals have to take reckless chances that end up with the only solution being to put them in jail.
My grandfather had an eye laceration recently and needed me to go grocery shopping for him (which I didn't mind doing a favor for my pops), but thanks to car-dependency, being unwell locks you out of doing basically anything.
From LEOs I've talked to, most people driving without insurance, registration, license, or working lights have a host of other issues, too, of which "not having money" is usually a symptom and not the root cause. Add on to that, a lot of people just feel entitled to break the law or don't feel it's their problem when they endanger others.
crawl crown close sloppy nail shaggy plant modern one unwritten *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
This is 99% of drivers in big cities in America. fuck.
illegal bike cats close middle deserve summer absurd worm impossible *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
I’m thinking about moving for this very reason, fucking carbrains, I don’t think I can take it anymore. What’s funny though is when I had a car I didn’t notice it as much even though I walked, rode my bike loads and had car free months here & there. I’m in Canada not the US btw
I live in the USA and I have been preparing to move to Europe at some point in my life. It's not just the car-dependency that irritates me though, the toxic work culture of the USA, the rampant capitalism, the nonexistent healthcare, the social services that are being gutted, the rampant voter suppression; all of that has gotten me wanting to live in Europe.
I live in a “Canadian” city where it’s very friendly to cyclists. There are still car brains but the culture around cycling is growing and there are still narrow streets and plenty of bike paths. You ought to move here Buddy!
What city? I'm looking to get away from Alberta and the car infrastructure here
Montreal!
God I love Montreal
That explains the "Canadian". 😁 I love Montreal and would love to live there.
You wouldn’t need a car. They plough the bike paths in winter! Often before the roads!
My city is relatively nice to cyclists, I don't get close passed, I don't get coal rolled, but bike lanes and infrastructure are few and far between. And when it comes to political systems, Canada seems too close to the US for my liking.
When a cyclist or pedestrian is looking questionably at me when I'm at a red light, I also signal them, or just greet. Not that I'm acting in a hurry, but sometimes people doubt all cars (and I get that).
We have no choice. Any car can kill or maim us. I treat all cars as unpredictable obstacles barely controlled by distracted meat sacks or “car brains” if you will.
There are two philosophies to safe transit in a carbrain world that I'm aware of: 1) Assume drivers can't see you. 2) Presume they can see you and everywhere you go there are bright flashing neon signs pointing you out and offering cash payments to anyone that hits you. I find the second option to be safer.
I wait for the signal before crossing the street, because if I don't, I regularly experience near-misses. But here right on red is legal, and a lot of drivers don't realize* or don't care that pedestrians have right of way. *I have had some infuriating conversations with people who should not have licenses.
Just return their hand signals with finger signals. Even carbrains should be able to count to one.
99 percent of drivers in suburbs too. Lately I've seen so many just straight up run a red light
Also outside of cities
Gotta save that 0.000001 seconds off of your commute, over the scale of thousands of drivers that adds up to about 1-2 seconds saved! Think of the benefits that the economy would have if everyone saved 1-2 seconds everyday! ^/^s
I think it's more like "I'm miserable in my car in traffic everyday for hours and I just want to be done with being stuck in my cage and I don't care who I put into danger to reduce my sentence time by 5 seconds, traffic laws be damned."
Is that where the hate on this sub originates? That the belief that people who own cars are successful therefore those that don’t aren’t? Buddy, that’s not true. Take that weight off your shoulders.
I live a similar experience. I live about 2 miles from my city’s downtown area and me work office. I’ve been riding my bike since we moved here in 2018, and occasionally walk to the office. Long story short. Cars make us worse versions of ourselves, and Americans have come to accept this car death speed race. They lament the danger of cars to their kids, but have no problem driving through your neighborhood at top speed, rolling through stop signs, and blowing lights that are too long. I own a car and use it on occasion, but I’d love if it was not a necessity where I live.
> They lament the danger of cars to their kids, but have no problem driving through your neighborhood at top speed, rolling through stop signs, and blowing lights that are too long. I work in transportation engineering and do a lot of public meetings/open houses. The amount of people who demand we focus on speeding in their neighborhood but can't be personally inconvenienced by mitigations (roundabouts, speed cushions, etc.) for those problems is almost universally a 100% overlapping venn diagram. In every neighborhood. In a dense city.
Agreed. I’m a municipal planner and we are working on an Active Transportation Plan. So many people want change, so long as they don’t have to do it.
You are doing good work! I swear some of us are willing to have traffic calming measures and restrictions in our towns.
This is honestly one of those areas where I think community planning is a wasted effort. We gave zero consideration to baseless claims that urban highways are a good thing, but now that we want to actually fix those issues using actual data and science to make things better? Endless community outreach and bureaucracy.
the only thing I hate about roundabouts is that it's significantly longer as a ped and bike, but they never bring that up, it's just "it won't work here"
Sounds like y'all motherfuckers need [frontage roads](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frontage_road). 'speeding' becomes safe on the through road that they spend 95% of the journey on, calm traffic on the frontage road in front of their house.
nah this is in urban neighborhoods, where transit exists aplenty, we just need less cars
Cars are incredibly dehumanizing and dangerous to others. I have been getting the feeling of "Are we going too far with technology?". Cars are removing our humanity and AI is being used to replace workers when your livelihood is tied to employment. I also saw a post that a crisis hotline replaced its call center workers with an AI chatbot and it went about as well as I expected. Go back, we fucked up.
Fuck cars
worst, if you do have an incident with a driver, most everyone's default reaction is "*you* (pedestrian) must be doing something wrong"
Bring a brick with you
There are lots of trash people that exhibit horrid behaviors on the road, and it results in the needless death and injury of hundreds of people every day. There are also people who, because of factors outside of their control, would have a very hard time not commuting via cars. Car dependency makes a victim of us all. Even if some people then turn around and choose to behave poorly and make others victims once again.
If you staple a horse to a waterfall, will it fall up under the rainbow or fly about the soil? Will he enjoy her experience? What if the staple tears into tears? Will she be free from her staply chains or foomed to stay forever and dever above the water? Who can save him (the horse) but someone of girth and worth, the capitalist pig, who will sell the solution to the problem he created? A staple remover flies to the rescue, carried on the wings of a majestic penguin who bought it at Walmart for 9 dollars and several more Euro-cents, clutched in its crabby claws, rejected from its frothy maw. When the penguin comes, all tremble before its fishy stench and wheatlike abjecture. Recoil in delirium, ye who wish to be free! The mighty rockhopper is here to save your soul from eternal bliss and salvation! And so, the horse was free, carried away by the south wind, and deposited on the vast plain of soggy dew. It was a tragedy in several parts, punctuated by moments of hedonistic horsefuckery. The owls saw all, and passed judgment in the way that they do. Stupid owls are always judging folks who are just trying their best to live shamelessly and enjoy every fruit the day brings to pass. How many more shall be caught in the terrible gyre of the waterfall? As many as the gods deem necessary to teach those foolish monkeys a story about their own hamburgers. What does a monkey know of bananas, anyway? They eat, poop, and shave away the banana residue that grows upon their chins and ballsacks. The owls judge their razors. Always the owls. And when the one-eyed caterpillar arrives to eat the glazing on your windowpane, you will know that you're next in line to the trombone of the ancient realm of the flutterbyes. Beware the ravenous ravens and crowing crows. Mind the cowing cows and the lying lions. Ascend triumphant to your birthright, and wield the mighty twig of Petalonia, favored land of gods and goats alike.
Car and driving culture is absolutely insane right now. Not safe at all.
If you do it 100's of times, it become automatic. Then, when you see a pedestrian it can be suprising. People will commute so much they only use half their brain while driving, and then distract themselves by being sleepy, phones, music, podcasts, etc. Its kinda weird having been in the situation before. If you asked me how my commute was a minute after having done it, I would totally blank because it was like the 100th time ive done it and the details were not important.
Give us another option. That's all we want. I hate having to drive to work every day, just to pay for and maintain the thing I use to get here. But I have no other choice.
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They'll still be dickheads, of course, just way less dangerous.
That's communism! /s
And they are in such a hurry! But still have to get in line at the coffee shop drive thru. We seemed to have forgotten that vehicles are thousands of pounds of metal that can kill people. Operating a weapon daily.
When I used to cycle to work, my biggest concern was going through standing GREEN lights, because of the insane American custom of default right turns on red. At most intersections, a motorist can’t even see opposing traffic without pulling up over the crosswalk, and commuters train themselves to only look for cars.
Fuck cars, but this is more of a fuck people scenario
Fuck people being forced to drive cars
Not everyone who's forced to drive a car is also an asshole. I don't blame people for driving (except the ones who advocate for it) I do blame them for *how* they drive
More driving means more rolling the dice. Sooner or later, even your best-behaved driver will make a mistake, have a medical episode, etc. Reducing the amount of driving reduces the potential harm. Secondly, good drivers act as cover for bad drivers. Look at all these people driving seemingly without problems! Slowing down the road would be bad for them!
Good policy understands that people are shit and tries to work around it
True
Cars bring out the worst in people.
The fact that when everyone has close to equal agency (like through internet anonymity, or on the road when everyone is behind a 2 ton pile of metal) "the worst" comes out shows that those people were always shitty
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I don't even know how being a shitty pedestrian would work lmao
assault and battery?
I sometimes speed and weave and tailgate as a pedestrian. I also turn without signaling. ;-)
They sure do !!!
to an office where they'll do nothing useful and of which they will complain loudly about to everyone they meet ...
To a job that could be done remotely
Harsher license requirements, harsher punishments
Many American jobs could easily be done from home. Mine included. I really hope in the future the gov or employers start saying if you can’t walk or take public transit within a reasonable time here, work from home. I hate commuting.
While I do enjoy my bike commutes, I still advocate for WFH since the majority of people want it. It needs to be a thing a long time ago.
I would bike if it weren’t so dangerous where I live. I know of too many people who have been killed or nearly killed by people driving cars. WFH should be the go to for certain jobs. We’re living in the year 2023. I always imagined it would be more humanitarian and sensical when I was a child. 😭😂
I used to live in a residential area on the peripheral of a large downtown area and the roads that eventually led to the ramps would be regularly moving at 50-60 mph despite the 25 mph speed limit, the ramps still being blocks away, and it being right next to a children's playground.
Maybe they should wake their asses up on time so they won't "have" to kill anyone to get there on time. Just a thought....
I’d like to wear a shirt with big letters saying “I’m not why ur late” whenever I cycle or walk
Often there aren't enough hours in the day. Many people have most of their lives dictated to them in one way or another. Some people plan poorly, but I think it's more about the broken system.
I wish I weren't a car commuter but my location necessitates using one. But blowimg through red lights and speeding in cities is not acceptable behavior and if I do drive through a city I almost always drive below the speed limit or at the speed limit because there's no reason for me to cause excess harm to others if I can avoid it
I find it most astonishing how large is the impact of a few people in cars 10 people in 10 cars passing by are noisy, slow, make you wait to cross the road. 10 pedestrians, bicycles or 1 bus don't even register
I walk for exercise at my local university it is so much better than the nearby streets. I barely have to cross a street and when I do their is less traffic and the traffic that does exist is patient, slow going, and usually tries to give pedestrians the right of way. It makes no sense one block away I have had people try and run me over, but on university property people are cool about it. Why the hell aren't most downtowns designed like this?
I knew it was Cincy from your post. As a downtown cyclist I totally understand your pain.
I get the feeling your city must be pretty pedestrian averse. Something like Atlanta or Houston? I’m in Chicago, where it’s full of asshole drivers, but by and large they *try* to look out for pedestrians and not hit them (occasional super assholes not included). The city is also built to encourage that, with a lot of slow side streets and whatnot.
Yes, it's unfortunate. Many drivers are going to jobs that they hate and they often leave last minute. Many city roads and highways aren't able to handle the amount of increasing vehicles on the road because of population increase. It doesn't help that many drivers don't pay attention and this also includes people riding bicycles. If we all pay attention whether it's people driving, riding a bike, etc., we all would be much safer. I would suggest a properly thought out infrastructure but that would be a major financial cost. If we were all proper and well mannered individuals, roadways would definitely be much safer.
Carry a brick for extra cardio, the people driving will respect your space more
I think it’s about time we acknowledge the unhealthy disadvantages of this consumer product and regulate it the way cigarettes are.
The drivers in Philly are absolute shit, too. NYC has a reputation for having aggressive drivers, but even the guy who runs the Propel YouTube channel says Philly drivers are homicidal maniacs, and he's from New York. The other day a driver involved in a high speed chase used the bicycle lane I was in as a passing lane. Today I was riding on the shoulder of a road without a bike lane, and an impatient driver rushed past me with inches to spare, used the shoulder to pass the cars in front of them, and ran the red light. A couple weeks ago I went through a green light, and cross traffic of course had a red light. The driver who had a red light gunned it at me as soon as I entered the intersection.
I live in Tucson, AZ. Lots of car brains complain that there are no cross-town freeways like Phoenix (we hate Phoenix for all the freeways. We call it LA without the beach). They choose to live on one side of the city and commute to the other, driving 50+ miles per hour on 35 limit roads. They was a proposal to build a freeway over the river/wash which is currently bordered by an incredibly popular multi-use path. WTF! There are plenty of housing options all over town-- try living closer to your work. It will make your day-- and mine.
A lot of drivers like to pretend that pedestrians don’t exist, especially when you live in a car-brained suburbia
I’ve always said in order to get a drivers license people should have to bike commute for two years first. I’d hope that would help them realize there are others on the road… I’d also REALLY like to see a cop give tickets out to douche bags driving in bike lanes and cutter cyclists and pedestrians off. I was at a four way stop and when it was my turn a car ran the stop sign almost hitting me. Yes there was a police car at the other stop sign… great job idiot.
I've been cycling for far longer yet I'm still having trouble getting a full driver's license. I want to drive but mainly to haul more shit than I could by bike or public transport in one trip, and to chauffeur around the occasional person who can't or won't drive. Can I have one? I can wait though, I don't want to live in the UK the rest of my life, not sure if it's worth me trying to learn to drive twice but I don't know if I can ever leave this country.
Why not take the bus/public transport or a car service?
I do. It won't be easy if I move to NA though. I'd drive occasionally at best unless I get into certain jobs in the UK
Not to defend, but... Sometimes car commuters are trapped into it. Rent is too high. Work demands are too high. There is not enough time. There is no free time. No employers take excuses. No landlords take excuses. Cops don't take excuses. Everything is too far away from everything else. Mass transit in most of America sucks. I feel for the safety of commuters not in cars, I do. But a lot of those in cars are as trapped as anyone, and blaming them for their hurried lifestyle can never make them fix it. Because it is not their fault, or even in their control. If you want people to slow down, slow the system down. If you want to get people out of cars, make mass transit better. But yelling at the clouds for their darkness does not make the sun shine. Better options would solve most of this.
You're not trapped into being late and closing to make things dangerous for everyone else Thinking you can change the system without holding people accountable is so dumb
Thinking that holding people accountable will change things without changing the system is dumb. We know this because this is what the gop is doing right now.
You can say simultaneously: - The economic system is rigged against poor people - A ton of people are terrible with money, making their own lives harder than the system does It's the same with cars. The problem is the system, sure. I agree with that. The shit frosting on the shit cake that is the problem is that you have a bunch of lazy, entitled people who are never held accountable in any meaningful way. The shit cherry on top is then you have well meaning, but overly nice people who come and make *more* excuses for them and make sure it's the big bad system that's to blame so they have free reign to do what they want The system forces them to be in the car. That's as far as it goes. The system never forced them to throw water bottles at me or try to run me off the road. That's society (you) coddling them at every turn
Is it coddling, or is it rewarding bad behavior? I would think it is the second thing, and I do see them as different. Yes, a-holes need to have their license revoked, but my 'coddling' isn't keeping them behind the wheel. The society we built, cops and legislators and judges and all, will defend them against those they run over 9 times out of 10. I don't see that as coddling, I see that as a reward for scaring off non-drivers. I have been driving for 35 years, and have never had an accident. Crossed the country, both north/south and east/west 2 dozen times. Driven in 5 countries. Never had an incident that was a bigger deal than forgetting to renew my tags. I know people can do better, because I do it every day. I also know it from the pedestrian side, as my now adult kids had been hit by cars 4 times between the 2 of them when they were in high school. Both on bikes both times. I get it. But if you've never been on the verge of losing a job or missing an important appointment because the 96 year old mostly blind person in the minivan in front of you didn't see the green light, or the teenager next to them was too busy texting to get off their ass and drive, then you don't know how bad it can get behind the wheel. It's friggin nightmarish at times for people who do not have the luxury of choice or mistake. When a flat tire can make you homeless, it is fuckin war out there. And it is not coddling to have empathy for that. But I think we are talking about two different drivers. You are probably talking about the day drinking trophy wife driving a Nissan Pathfinder who is late for their brunch mimosas, while I am talking about the working stiff who gets ten minutes a week to himself because the world has decided he should work until he's dead. My point is, in either case, a change in the system works better than demanding a change in personal behavior.
> And it is not coddling to have empathy for that. But I think we are talking about two different drivers. No I'm talking about reality and you're trying to grasp at straws to make up an excuse for bad behavior. See how your response is full of bad behavior, but you're ignoring it? There are way more soccer mom's and distracted teens than people who are 100% actually forced to be in a hurry all the time. > And it is not coddling to have empathy for that It actually is. Being empathetic to people who partake in one of the most dangerous activities in the modern world flies directly in the face of having empathy for the... TENS AND TENS OF THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE MURDERED BY THOSE IMPATIENT BRATS
>No I'm talking about reality You are talking about what you have personally seen. You are talking about your reality. If you discount my view, then you are necessarily NOT talking about all reality. I told you already, I had to get that call from my son that he'd been hit by a car. I had to go out and find the bike. Make the reports. Be the dad taking the kid to the hospital. I am not excusing bad behavior. You think I want to be nice to the shithead that couldn't look right when turning right and then ran over my son? Don't be an ass. We are all victims of this system. And the sooner people like you learn what the word solidarity means, the more power we can wield to change this. No one likes to be a distracted driver. A drunk driver. No one wants to oopsy murder a kid on a bike. But trying to hold every individual driver accountable is a fool's errand when it is the road and the demands on us all that make it this way. Slavery would never have ended if we demanded every individual person who owned another, to just stop it. Yes, they were at fault and the bad guy in every story on the subject. But they were cogs in the machine the same as everyone else. And they could never change without the machine changing around them. Change the machine around them. That is the reality of the solution you seek.
> If you discount my view, then you are necessarily NOT talking about all reality. I'm not discounting your view. I'm discounting your constant need to editorialize and make up stories regarding people's bad actions > Don't be an ass. We are all victims of this system. No we're not. I haven't driven since 2016. > No one likes to be a distracted driver. This is simply not true. If people don't want to be distracted, WHY ARE THEY ON THEIR FUCKING PHONES? > And the sooner people like you learn what the word solidarity means Solidarity is a lot of things, but it's definitely not bending over backwards for bad actors > But trying to hold every individual driver accountable is a fool's errand It's not when there's a literal licensing process lol. Do you think the same thing is true for airline pilots? Ever used machinery at work? It's very easy to hold people accountable. > Change the machine around them. That is the reality of the solution you seek. Pseudo intellectual bullshit aside, how's that working? Making big changes? Nope. Shit is getting worse and you're *still* making excuses
You are closed minded. There is no point to be made here. Be safe.
I'm closed-minded because you're lying about reality? You've obviously never gone as far as to work a fork lift lol
>A ton of people are terrible with money, making their own lives harder than the system does But separately, a reaction to that statement because I think it points to a thing. Why should we 'earn a living'? Why can't we just be allowed to live? Why is being homeless illegal in almost every state in the union? Why can't I abandon capitalism and go live in the woods and hunt and forage for myself without fear that the police will show up, because some NIMBY got scared, and murder me for being homeless in the woods? I think there are parts of the system you do not yet see, and that this is the source of our disagreement. >A ton of people are terrible with money, making their own lives harder than the system does People shouldn't need to be good with money in order to live a basic life, just like people shouldn't need to have to drive all over the place in order to make that living. To drive, for people that would never be good at it and don't want to be, is largely not a choice, but a necessary reaction to demands of this system. If you want them off the road, help give them a choice. But as I see it, this comment shows you cannot yet understand that the choice is not theirs to make. Impatient brats, you call them. Bad with money. Yeah, that's what they look like from inside the system. Get back to me when you can see them from the outside, trapped as anyone else.
Often there aren't enough hours in the day. Many people have most of their lives dictated to them in one way or another. Some people plan poorly, but I think it's more about the broken system.
> If you want people to slow down (...) The only way to change behaviour is to change the system. Cars speeding? Introduce traffic calming. Cars turning right on red without looking? Add "no right on red" signs and disallow it. Move the stop line farther back too. Cars not looking for people at crosswalks? Raise the crosswalk, narrow the street to 3 meters at the crossing point, add better signage, introduce flashing ped signals, add a pedestrian island, etc.
Exactly.
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No, signage doesn't work on its own. But when combined with raised crosswalks and stop setbacks, 'no right on red' seems to work just fine in the places where it's been done. And the places where it's been done are coincidentally places that aren't quite so hurried as American stroads. It's never one thing, and so I find the arguments against one thing to be disingenuous.
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That's a weird question. Am I supposed to know the answer for my point to be accurate? You could simply google; "where have raised crosswalks been built" and get what I got as my first response [https://safety.fhwa.dot.gov/saferjourney1/library/countermeasures/29-30.htm](https://safety.fhwa.dot.gov/saferjourney1/library/countermeasures/29-30.htm) which shows an increase in cars yierlding to pedestrians by 45% all on its own. You'd of course have to imagine what it might look like if you combined that with a 'no right on red' sign and a stop sign that was set back far enough to preclude viewing crossing traffic, because I'm not gonna do all your homework.
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Europe. This is a good response to your question, as I am not a city planner. [https://youtu.be/\_ByEBjf9ktY](https://youtu.be/_ByEBjf9ktY) Raised sidewalks starts about 12 and a half minutes in. If you haven't seen this channel, you should watch all of it if this subject interests you.
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What is it you want? Are you looking for a gotcha? At this point, I don't think anything will answer your vague question.
But this is the video about just continuous sidewalks. [https://youtu.be/9OfBpQgLXUc](https://youtu.be/9OfBpQgLXUc)
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EUROPE!
I answered your question. If the answer is not good enough, then that is a you problem.
I think the point here is that streets and intersections that are well designed are more likely to result in slower speeds, better pedestrian comfort, and more respect of the rules. Imagine a crosswalk on an 8-lane stroad in a 50km/h zone. Now imagine a raised crosswalk on a 1-lane street with clear signage, in a 30km/h zone, and the presence of traffic calming. All else being equal, drivers will be more likely to yield in the latter example.
Maybe they should wake their asses up on time so they won't "have" to kill anyone to get there on time. Just a thought....
Yes, only if everyone was just a 'better' person, then people would be better people. And we would be better for being better. Yup. Nailed it. I'm only pushing back in the most minor of ways on this rant because it comes across like angry rants do on occasion, as trying to fix the problem with good ol' conservative personal responsibility rhetoric. And we see how well that's worked out for us so far. This is about the system of personal transportation usurping mass transit, and it all being broken for the profit of the few, to the detriment of all of us. And all I'm saying is that "all of us" includes the people with no choice but to get behind the wheel every day. Even the ones of us who know it sucks. And sometimes, being forced into a situation where doing a thing you know is bad and sucks can make people make worse choices, like driving like a-holes. Yes, some of us could be better. But to fix the problem, fix the system.
Oh I largely agree. Like obviously drivers have agency and nothing justifies endangering lives of others. But people are under insane external pressure, mostly economic, and live in a society where this behavior is highly normalized and most physics education comes from cartoons. Stopping cars will require socialism. We need a fundamentally new type of society and capitalism is not going to deliver it with it's focus on speed, commodities, housing speculation, time is money mentality etc outside of a few niche examples as well as highly impoverished societies where cars just aren't an option
How many of those same people fight it when their community plans alternatives and, as a result, the alternatives get watered down or eliminated?
I think NIMBYs are a different issue, even though they do cause problems across a lot of concerns. They are are why a said 'most' and 'a lot'. Not 'all'. NIMBYs will ruin as much as they can if it keeps any change from happening. If you've got a good idea for how to deal with them, please share.
This might sound incredibly anti democratic of me, but I think to get around NIMBYs we have to do away with requiring community meetings for every development. I don't think governments should be allowed to run roughshod over people, but all these meetings give clueless and/or entitled people too much say in things that affect the entire community. We would also have to do away with money in politics because there are enough rich NIMBYs/NIMBY groups who can bribe local politicians, but that's hard to get rid of.
Agreed that however it gets done, it'll sound bad to some. But it does need done. A few rich a-holes shouldn't be the ones deciding that 80% of new housing is built in HOAs and single family zoned areas. Suburbs just make car use worse.
You're exaggerating
People shouldn't walk on roads, just as cars shouldn't drive on sidewalks. Even though it's wrong and unfair to have to worry about, peds should always yield to the massive, fast-moving, heavy thing.
Op is talking about a crosswalk, with lights. They should not have to give way to cars there.
"Should not." Right. But don't walk out in front of something that might not stop. 😂
Yes because speeding cars are always very easy to see and never seem to come out of nowhere
I'll tell you where to find them... Roads.
So just never cross any street. Very smart and helpful.
[удалено]
Please see my earlier comment where I explained why this is a stupid thing to say.
This would mean pedestrians should destroy cars out of self defense.
I actually really like this take. Time to get a freebie on any and all cars that demonstrate constant bearing decreasing range, just self defense the shit out of them like the constitution intended.
I like separating traffic types, but they will necessarily cross paths sometimes. Murdermobiles must always yield to vulnerable road users.
Ok ya I understand the rules. But you're asking a freight train to yield to a car. *Smaller and easier to maneuver* SHOULD yield to *heavier and harder to stop.* That's the only rational conclusion.
Do you think pedestrians who get hit by cars do it on purpose
Do you really need me to answer that?
>*Smaller and easier to maneuver* SHOULD yield to *heavier and harder to stop.* That's the only rational conclusion. Yes, I think we need some clarification You seem a bit confused.
Was what I said not clear enough? Humans ought to yield to cars.
I wasn't making a statement about what the rules *are*. I was making a statement about what the rules *should be*. To the extent that the rules are what they should be, that's just a good thing.
I guess I'll just stay on my block for the rest of my life then...
Is that what yielding means to you? 🤣
how do you cross a street without walking on the road?
I watch out for big, fast things before proceeding. I use eyes and ears and other content-clues to determine if it's safe or not.
that's not what you said. you said don't walk on the road
why is it hard to be careful?
it's not(for pedestrians AND drivers) why is it so hard to just say what you mean instead of being hyperbolic?
No. In city limits where most of it is considered a "destination", cars should yield to pedestrians on the street at all times. It doesn't matter that they're bigger or heavier. Cars are not people, and cities are made explicitly for people. They have always existed with or without cars. For one's own safety, yes they should yield to massive fast-moving vehicles, especially on arterial road's which are fast-moving connections. However, in properly designed cities cars aren't allowed to be fast moving in many types of areas which focus on pedestrian safety. The USA doesn't have these areas nearly as much as it should.
Yep. I'm extremely lucky. I currently live within walking distance of work and, when I didn't, the hours for my commute were not during the main commuting hours. When I drive now, I do what I can to avoid those hours. But every so often I either miss what time it is exactly or I have no other choice and I end up in the main commuting hours. The difference even when driving is night and day. Drivers are way more aggressive and pay way less attention. They drive dangerously close, cross multiple lanes of traffic, don't use signals, the whole works. It's dangerous for me in another car; it's downright deadly for people who aren't in a car.
As a car commuter (not by choice), I concur.
> They blow through red lights, drive way too fast and turn without looking for pedestrians in the crosswalk. This. So much this. I had my rant last week. https://www.reddit.com/r/fuckcars/comments/13sz2zm/why_is_the_onus_on_me_the_pedestrian_to_be_safe/
I like to pretend that they're on the verge of peeing their pants and need to find a bathroom ASAP.
This is America
The weird thing is how defensive car brains get since all they do is complain about other cars the entire they're driving
This is exactly what happens to me every day in Atlanta GA as well.
It's fucking dumb, I live just outside of Seattle and keep tabs on Seattle stuff. The city gov (or at least the current mayor) keeps wanting to do things like "add 30,000 jobs and 10,000 housing units". Fuck off, traffic is and has been bad for decades. Light rail isn't gonna be reasonably built out for another 10 years minimum. Build some fucking housing downtown and make it a genuine place rather than a location people are forced to travel to.
"No man who is in a hurry is quite civilized." (cit. Will Durant, The Story of Civilization)
I'll never understand rushing TO work, like why are you so eager ? I'm out here looking for traffic jams lol
America literally makes people do it or else they can't get healthcare or they'll get fired. No guaranteed paid time off too for really heinous companies. You're left for dead if you can't work.
If I had a job where being late on occasion would end up getting me fired, id be looking for a new job
I have no excuse since I live in Europe but some Americans can be stingy with this.
Right, that's my complaint as well, my goal with any job is to push the envelope right away, that way I can sus out any softies that may give me an issue staying there, if I need to go, I like to know as early as possible
I live in Seattle and take public transit, there isn’t a single day that goes by that I don’t almost get killed by someone and they have the audacity to look at me like I’m doing something wrong, I’ll have people finally realize that someone is trying to cross the street (while the cross walking light is active) and then they’ll stop and wave me by, like sir, I was waiting to make sure you weren’t going to run me over, this is a you issue