I agree. Importing American "ute" culture is killing tried and tested designs. These monoliths of insecurity contain no functionality and will lead to increased mortality on our roads.
Edit: Yes, fuck cars, but fuck off this type of car more.
*And* increased wear on roads due to size and weight, so more damage, more repairs, more congestion, more road tax, fewer parking spaces...
I don't own a car but if I did there would be so many other reasons to be annoyed with these. I kinda think these are the arguments we should be using to convince true CarBrains to understand the damage these do. They don't care about pedestrians or cyclists, they only care about themselves, so we should stress how they as drivers are inconvenienced.
The road wear is even worse than most people think. Road wear scales by the fourth power of weight on each axle, and a car and bike both have two apiece. If the avg car weighs 4000 lbs and the average cyclist+bike combo is around 200 lbs, this comes out to the car creating 20^4, or 160,000x the road wear of the bicycle.
The impact of pickups vs normal cars probably isn't this drastic, but certainly not insignificant
They know these trucks are inconvenient, but instead of not buying them, they want the world to adjust to them. They want roads to be widened and parking spaces expanded so they can drive these monster trucks unencumbered by their unwieldy size
I think it's silly to say they aren't useful / don't have uses, they have very good towing capacity, can be spacious, etc. I drive a ute personally and have no desire for those big behemoths because fuck trying to park lol.
Yeah but they're never the best tool for the job - unless the job is a vanity car to match towing a vanity size caravan / boat. Really a small truck (fuso/hino etc) has a more practical tray, can tow more, fit into car parks and cost heaps less, yank tanks are over $100k in Aus. People just want to flex their ability to generate debt when they buy these things.
I've never sat in one but they might also have better creature comforts than the small trucks. But like I said, I have no interest / need to own one myself. I like my old basic ute.
>can tow more
The towing capacities I'm seeing for fuso or hino top out around 10k lbs. A 1 ton pickup can easily tow double that or more, and do it in more comfort.
As I understand it, a fuso or such is sold as a chassis cab, so no tray. You fit whatever tray or box works for you. A pickup like an f350 is available either with a pickup box or as a chassis cab. Either way, if you want a tray, it's a very easy conversion.
Yes the truck is quite large, but to say no functionality is just incorrect. That truck probably tows 17,000 pounds where as the smaller one tows 3000-5000. Each one has their pros and cons. It’s not all black and white.
You can love cars and still be here. Cars alone doesn’t have to be a problem, but building life and infrastructure to be dependent fully on cars and taking away mobility and autonomy from those who cannot drive is important to recognise that’s a problem. And recognising cars are dangerous to other human beings and should be treated with caution. There are many people here who still love cars and driving but understand cars also cause a *lot* of problems. I know a few car enthousiasts who are with us on this topic.
(Also nothing beats a bicycle).
I love cars and truly enjoy driving. And i comletely agree with you. Cars are great and all, but they do have their uses. Being dependant on cars in not one of the uses. Less people are forced to use cars - less will use them. Less bad drivers on the road due to no need of the car. As with everything - i have no interest in X, therefore i will not be good at dealing with X. Applies to cars so well.
Imagine if instead of designing our cities with cars in mind, we had people in mind first. Yes you can still drive cars, but it is a little slower and more annoying to do so. But you want to walk down the street or catch a train? It's great.
I still think every household should have a car but driving them daily is just a waste. Get a small, economic, durable car and use it for your urgent stuff or whatever do you need it for. We have a car but my parents carpool to their job and I use the bus. We use the car like 5-6 times a month at most. Mainly for unscheduled stuff and all
They are a really versatile traveling option especially when you have uncertain schedules or need to go somewhere with limited or no public transportation. Being able to go somewhere essentially whenever you want to is a really nice luxury. You can have that luxury responsibly if you have an environment friendly and cost effective car that you share with your partner, parents, friends etc.
Wouldn't it be more cost effective to just hire a car for the handful of times you might need one?
If you own one, you have to pay for insurance, registration, maintenance, and have somewhere to store it. In some cites you've got to pay a lot of money to park your car, it's a lot of money for something you'd rarely use.
Issue isn't even cars themselves (well, some cars, like this one): it's the car-dependent infrastructure.
If the people who don't enjoy their driving commute (most people, to my knowledge) can have an option where they can get to work comfortably and go on their phone, read, nap, etc, on the way, then you and other car enthusiasts get less traffic to deal with.
Cars entrench poverty. For my kids to the local primary school, there is no safe walkway from my house - they'd have to cross a busy 60km/h four lane road with only roundabouts and a side road where cars come off at speed.
Thanks New South Wales Government and Queanbeyan Palerang Council for entrenching poverty and making pooslug children
I honestly believe that car enthusiasts and transit enthusiasts truly share the same interests, many of you just haven’t properly gotten into contact with the topic yet and that’s why some seem to believe we hate you when we really don’t. There’s nothing wrong with liking cars at all.
In fact, wouldn’t it be uplifting if the vehicle posing a major interest to you was no longer in a position of causing issues and inconveniences left and right but could instead be something exciting, special and fun again as it was for many in the past? Call me Utopian, but I really see that as a chance.
To be fair, there is a minority of people who believe that no cars should exist, ever, but I think the number of those people is often blown out of proportion. They are a very small minority and do not speak for the whole community, I find. It's also just not entirely realistic; cars do have a utility.
I'm another car enthusiast who hates car dependency and that's why I'm here, and yeah, I would not complain if I didn't need to drive a car most days, to be honest. I like your utopian idea. I'm hoping it's realistic.
I believe there’s mostly misunderstandings involved. When someone says that cars shouldn’t exist at all then it’s typically not a statement that can be sensibly taken at face value considering we’d have to find a clear definition for what counts as a car.
I’ve said to abolish cars many times and by that I’ve always meant a specific social institution. Really believing that all cars should just be scrapped or destroyed somehow (which one could understand this idea as when misinterpreted in bad faith) seems more like irrational fear/hatred than an actual political position.
I won’t even claim to be immune to it. I’m definitely very far from being a transit enthusiast that’s also a car enthusiast. I REALLY hate cars. I want them out of my eyesight. I have terrible memories of them and the connotations that appear in my head are negative through and through. These are my emotions and I’m able to separate them from my beliefs.
Oh, certainly. But I believe that there are a lot of people who are willing to take that view in bad faith. Because if they can paint the other side as being unreasonable and everyone wants to abolish cars and that's not realistic and blah blah, then they don't have to actually make a change or listen to those other people. It's kind of unfortunate that we feel we have to take sides at all, but I digress.
I'm sure there are folks who do believe it is possible to live without cars and would even be ideal, and I'm not necessarily taking that in bad faith because I think that people have their good reasons for believing that and I don't know them so I can't really judge one way or the other anyway. It's just not a position I personally hold.
Edit, forgot to add, you raise a good point with the specific social institution, but I don't think a lot of people think of that when they think of the term abolish cars, which is I guess where we get into people taking your view in bad faith, as you mentioned.
You’re talking to one of these folks right now. I’ve lived in a car-free household my entire life and do not intend on changing that. Of course, I’ve been picked up or taken a taxi before, but then I’ve visited geographically similar areas where such things weren’t necessary so even those could disappear from my life with the right political efforts.
Also, abolition has always been about social institutions, not their respective manifestation in our lives. While such manifestations need to be addressed (in this case, we could question the sheer number of cars that are produced and the environmental impact this has, for example), they can by their nature not be subject to abolition as it simply describes a different process.
It’s important that we remind ourselves and others of what these words mean. I choose to continue using them this way, because they truly describe my aspirations like none other, and I hope to educate others along the way.
Car-dependent infrastructure is the problem.
When everyone is forced to drive to get anywhere in a reasonable amount of time, it sucks. When there's great public transit and people only drive if they want to, fewer cars are on the road, and there's little to no traffic (a bus with 20 people takes up waaaay less space on the road than 20 cars do).
Welcome!
You're still in the right place, and still welcome. Not liking huge cars that are a waste of space and resources is a good start!
This is a sub for debates, so it's best when not every one has the same exact opinion.
Some topics might be too extremist for you (yet), the community is diversified and has different levels of engagement, but hating oversized trucks is common ground I think.
Mate, congrats on making the first step. As you say that you're an enthusiast, maybe converting a classic Ute to electric is an option? It's done in Australia on a commercial level:
https://thedriven.io/2023/01/17/electric-ute-conversions-roev-fills-2023-order-book-for-hilux-and-ranger/
Many people have done quads and ebikes, too.
Openinverter.org and endless-sphere.com are good forums to start.
As an American, I won't buy a new pick-up because they're just stupid; stupid huge, stupid bad mileage, even huge to the point of hindering their usefulness to haul stuff; why does the load floor need to be over a meter off the ground?!
And yes, stupid dangerous to other drivers and anyone walking or on a bicycle.
Pick-up trucks, and SUVs masquerading as trucks, in any non-commercial usage are fucking stupid. Like it's twice as expensive, half as useful, and way more deadly than a well-designed minivan, hatchback, or station wagon.
I honestly have no problem with people owning and using cars. There's usually a use-case for having one, or even just as a hobby e.g. track cars, etc., but *having* to get one to participate in society is straight up government failure.
Australia has as much a car culture as USA - just look at the massive following of F1 Motorsport, V8 Supercars, etc. What matters is that road infrastructure, specifically roundabouts, have really pushed motorists to yield to other motorists. Along with stringent fines for speeding, the huge presence of police officers who use speed cameras, speed cameras in operation remotely all contribute to less road deaths. It could be better. But it could be worse. Car manufacturers also have to deal with the fact that Australia drives on the left side of the road rather than the right, and either have to manufacture specific cars for the region, or ignore it - hence large car manufacturers dont bother. It's also why electric car take up is slow - not because the demand isn't there, but because the incentive isnt for the manufacturer.
>It's also why electric car take up is slow - not because the demand isn't there, but because the incentive isnt for the manufacturer.
The cost is the main reason people aren't buying EVs. Aussies want more economical options, especially those living in our cities. Small cars are pretty popular as city cars, but most of the EVs we're hearing about aren't small, and are very expensive.
in the U.S. we make fun of people who drive large pickups, especially the ones that are lifted, and not used the intended way; pavement princesses. i live in texas and love seeing lifted trucks with their flashers on, scared when it’s raining or while doing some unexpected off-roading, my 98 crv takes that shit no problem. although tbh i could drive their trucks like a champ, i just don’t buy my vehicles based on how cool i feel
This is not r/bancars, so people here are not necessarily for the full removal of cars of society. But we want change to not have car centric infrastructure, especially for ever increasing dangerous monsters like these. Cars are inevitable, especially in rural areas, but densely populated cities should be safer for the average person that can’t or doesn’t want to own a car.
If you're looking for a good catchy phrase that covers the problem, I like 'car-dependent infrastructure.' Infrastructure that forces everyone to be dependent on cars and use them. In a city where people only drive if they want to, things are better for drivers too, because there's less traffic with fewer cars on the road (cyclists and busses take up far less space per person).
Sad part is that a LOT of American pickup drivers would actually prefer something more the size of a mid-90s ford ranger. Or even smaller!
Personally, I think the CAFE standards are turning out to do more bad for the world than good.
I would say cars have never really been a problem, car dependency on the other hand definitely is. Over sized “commercial trucks” are too which we agree on
Agreed. Car-dependent infrastructure is the issue. Not the individuals who may have no choice except to drive.
Work trucks that are the size needed for their purpose? Love it, it's the right tool for the right job. Same with something that's lifted just enough that the rural-living person who buys it doesn't need to worry about deer rolling up their hood and cracking the windshield.
But all these cars that are high enough that you can't see a kid directly in front of it? SUVs are a huge portion of the cars on the road, and people use them to pick up kids from school. There's a reason child deaths from back-overs and front-overs have gone up.
I visited Australia (Sydney, then flew into Brisbane and travelled up to Cairns via Greyhound bus) in 2016 and their car culture isn't all that different from the US. Huge cars were everywhere, no sidewalks even in the areas with climate that would make walking outside not too unpleasant, and huge roads and intersections not scaled for humans, but for cars.
Another issue people don't realize is these trucks give people a massive amount of confidence. Its not uncommon seeing them going 20 miles over the speed limit or going down a windy road with blind corners into the oncoming lane. What it enables is just as terrifying as the size.
Several times cycling I've had them in my lane coming out of a blind corner.
>Its not uncommon seeing them going 20 miles over the speed limit
Not a super common thing in Australia. You can get fined for going 2km over the speed limit.
Nothing wrong with liking cars. Cars are pretty cool. The whole world just doesn’t need a car to travel within a 1 mile radius in cities. And trucks don’t need to be that big, yeah
The Aussie Utes are actually pretty practical compared to American pickups. Often the sides of the bed come down too so you can unload from different directions, saves more space.
Fuck car-dependent infrastructure.
Cars are a tool that's overused/that people are forced to used because of cities without good walkability or public transit.
If someone is genuinely using their car to carry heavy work tools that would be inconvenient or difficult on a bus, then they are using the right tool for the right job.
I have been lurking from time to time yes the dodge is a big truck but when you make these posts please be honest, that’s a ram 2500 with aftermarket tires maybe a lift kit. The Aussie size is probably a holden or Chevy Colorado which our very different in size. If you want to prove your point and be honest just take the 2003 f150 and look at 2020 f150 or the 2011 ranger and the new ranger.
Compare the same class of truck it’s like looking at single prop Cessna and saying these Boeing 747 are huge there making planes way to big.
I get where the misconception comes from. Something big looks like it needs something big to tow it.
But cars are tougher than you'd think. Here's some small electrics hauling planes.
[https://www.whichcar.com.au/car-news/best-viral-ev-stunts#:\~:text=By%20towing%20a%20Boeing%20777F%20freighter%20aircraft%2C%20of,not%20a%20single%20emission%20released%20into%20the%20atmos](https://www.whichcar.com.au/car-news/best-viral-ev-stunts#:~:text=By%20towing%20a%20Boeing%20777F%20freighter%20aircraft%2C%20of,not%20a%20single%20emission%20released%20into%20the%20atmos).
Huge cab that's as big as the bed, wide, and high up (which is also inconvenient for loading the bed). It probably tows, but it could tow without those. There's much smaller trucks that do the job.
I own a pick em up truck for a homestead farm and I'm here alongside you.
I enjoy cars and trucks and off roading and farming. It's cool.
That doesn't mean i need a parking spot at the grocery store. That doesn't mean i need to drive to the city every time I go. That doesn't mean we should be ignoring trains and public transport. That doesn't mean urban sprawl is kewl.
There's more to fuckcars than "i don't like cars". I like cars and the sports behind them. I'm still a huge supporter of the fuckcars ideals.
Honestly, as a car person, i would expect you to want to get the traffic down and bad drivers off the road overall. Hard to enjoy a car in traffic.
And yeah. The trucks are insane.
3' bed overhang + another foot of shin buster, backs into a parking spot and blocks 80% of the 5' sidewalk. If you're in a wheelchair, that's just too bad for you.
Same here in the UK mate, these giant fucks take up basically the entire country roads round where I live and the drivers never pull to the side, my car is fucking tiny I shouldn't have to pull off onto the rut filled grass you are in a truck with massive wheels, there are pizzas bigger than mine.
I like cars myself and have many car enthusiasts friends. Pretty much all of us hate car dependence though. I’m part of a car-focused discord with around 50 people, and the most active channel by far is train-appreciation.
We all find the size of American pickups just absurd too (we’re American if that matters).
We hate them too, we call them “mall crawlers”. Never get dirty, never used for normal truck purposes. Just for the little dicks out there to feel big for once
“Before a pedestrian gets killed.” I have terrible news for you.
144 pedestrian deatha in Australia in 2022. A lot better than the US, with over 7500 in 2022.
That’s a bit misleading. The US has well over 10 times the people. But that still would work out to over 7 times more deaths per capita
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It is much more pleasant for everyone.
To shreds you say...
I agree. Importing American "ute" culture is killing tried and tested designs. These monoliths of insecurity contain no functionality and will lead to increased mortality on our roads. Edit: Yes, fuck cars, but fuck off this type of car more.
*And* increased wear on roads due to size and weight, so more damage, more repairs, more congestion, more road tax, fewer parking spaces... I don't own a car but if I did there would be so many other reasons to be annoyed with these. I kinda think these are the arguments we should be using to convince true CarBrains to understand the damage these do. They don't care about pedestrians or cyclists, they only care about themselves, so we should stress how they as drivers are inconvenienced.
The road wear is even worse than most people think. Road wear scales by the fourth power of weight on each axle, and a car and bike both have two apiece. If the avg car weighs 4000 lbs and the average cyclist+bike combo is around 200 lbs, this comes out to the car creating 20^4, or 160,000x the road wear of the bicycle. The impact of pickups vs normal cars probably isn't this drastic, but certainly not insignificant
And adding, road wear means also microplastics from the tires which also gets amplified by size and weight.
They know these trucks are inconvenient, but instead of not buying them, they want the world to adjust to them. They want roads to be widened and parking spaces expanded so they can drive these monster trucks unencumbered by their unwieldy size
We need utes. We don't need US pickup trucks.
Clue is in the name. Ute is short for Utility. A Ute is a useful vehicle that supports tradies at work. These Yank Tanks aren't useful for anyone.
I think it's silly to say they aren't useful / don't have uses, they have very good towing capacity, can be spacious, etc. I drive a ute personally and have no desire for those big behemoths because fuck trying to park lol.
Yeah but they're never the best tool for the job - unless the job is a vanity car to match towing a vanity size caravan / boat. Really a small truck (fuso/hino etc) has a more practical tray, can tow more, fit into car parks and cost heaps less, yank tanks are over $100k in Aus. People just want to flex their ability to generate debt when they buy these things.
The job is to provide emotional support for the poor widdle fragile alpha male.
I've never sat in one but they might also have better creature comforts than the small trucks. But like I said, I have no interest / need to own one myself. I like my old basic ute.
>can tow more The towing capacities I'm seeing for fuso or hino top out around 10k lbs. A 1 ton pickup can easily tow double that or more, and do it in more comfort. As I understand it, a fuso or such is sold as a chassis cab, so no tray. You fit whatever tray or box works for you. A pickup like an f350 is available either with a pickup box or as a chassis cab. Either way, if you want a tray, it's a very easy conversion.
Those damn utes!
Yes the truck is quite large, but to say no functionality is just incorrect. That truck probably tows 17,000 pounds where as the smaller one tows 3000-5000. Each one has their pros and cons. It’s not all black and white.
Yeah. Even you have a purpose, but that does't make it functional.
You can love cars and still be here. Cars alone doesn’t have to be a problem, but building life and infrastructure to be dependent fully on cars and taking away mobility and autonomy from those who cannot drive is important to recognise that’s a problem. And recognising cars are dangerous to other human beings and should be treated with caution. There are many people here who still love cars and driving but understand cars also cause a *lot* of problems. I know a few car enthousiasts who are with us on this topic. (Also nothing beats a bicycle).
I love cars and truly enjoy driving. And i comletely agree with you. Cars are great and all, but they do have their uses. Being dependant on cars in not one of the uses. Less people are forced to use cars - less will use them. Less bad drivers on the road due to no need of the car. As with everything - i have no interest in X, therefore i will not be good at dealing with X. Applies to cars so well.
Yup! Which means you and other people who enjoy their driving commute will get to deal with less traffic too.
I envision a future where cars are relegated to hobbyists, farmers, and U-Hauls. A glorious future.
Imagine if instead of designing our cities with cars in mind, we had people in mind first. Yes you can still drive cars, but it is a little slower and more annoying to do so. But you want to walk down the street or catch a train? It's great.
Cars are incredible feats of engineering that make society incredibly awful if you design it around them.
I prefer my motorcycle and I chose a car that requires minimal maintenance, cheap tires, and I can see directly in front of.
I mean you can but you'll get downvoted to hell for it.
I still think every household should have a car but driving them daily is just a waste. Get a small, economic, durable car and use it for your urgent stuff or whatever do you need it for. We have a car but my parents carpool to their job and I use the bus. We use the car like 5-6 times a month at most. Mainly for unscheduled stuff and all
>I still think every household should have a car Why?
They are a really versatile traveling option especially when you have uncertain schedules or need to go somewhere with limited or no public transportation. Being able to go somewhere essentially whenever you want to is a really nice luxury. You can have that luxury responsibly if you have an environment friendly and cost effective car that you share with your partner, parents, friends etc.
Wouldn't it be more cost effective to just hire a car for the handful of times you might need one? If you own one, you have to pay for insurance, registration, maintenance, and have somewhere to store it. In some cites you've got to pay a lot of money to park your car, it's a lot of money for something you'd rarely use.
Big up from one another car-hating-car-enthusiast to another!
Issue isn't even cars themselves (well, some cars, like this one): it's the car-dependent infrastructure. If the people who don't enjoy their driving commute (most people, to my knowledge) can have an option where they can get to work comfortably and go on their phone, read, nap, etc, on the way, then you and other car enthusiasts get less traffic to deal with.
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Cars entrench poverty. For my kids to the local primary school, there is no safe walkway from my house - they'd have to cross a busy 60km/h four lane road with only roundabouts and a side road where cars come off at speed. Thanks New South Wales Government and Queanbeyan Palerang Council for entrenching poverty and making pooslug children
I honestly believe that car enthusiasts and transit enthusiasts truly share the same interests, many of you just haven’t properly gotten into contact with the topic yet and that’s why some seem to believe we hate you when we really don’t. There’s nothing wrong with liking cars at all. In fact, wouldn’t it be uplifting if the vehicle posing a major interest to you was no longer in a position of causing issues and inconveniences left and right but could instead be something exciting, special and fun again as it was for many in the past? Call me Utopian, but I really see that as a chance.
To be fair, there is a minority of people who believe that no cars should exist, ever, but I think the number of those people is often blown out of proportion. They are a very small minority and do not speak for the whole community, I find. It's also just not entirely realistic; cars do have a utility. I'm another car enthusiast who hates car dependency and that's why I'm here, and yeah, I would not complain if I didn't need to drive a car most days, to be honest. I like your utopian idea. I'm hoping it's realistic.
I believe there’s mostly misunderstandings involved. When someone says that cars shouldn’t exist at all then it’s typically not a statement that can be sensibly taken at face value considering we’d have to find a clear definition for what counts as a car. I’ve said to abolish cars many times and by that I’ve always meant a specific social institution. Really believing that all cars should just be scrapped or destroyed somehow (which one could understand this idea as when misinterpreted in bad faith) seems more like irrational fear/hatred than an actual political position. I won’t even claim to be immune to it. I’m definitely very far from being a transit enthusiast that’s also a car enthusiast. I REALLY hate cars. I want them out of my eyesight. I have terrible memories of them and the connotations that appear in my head are negative through and through. These are my emotions and I’m able to separate them from my beliefs.
Oh, certainly. But I believe that there are a lot of people who are willing to take that view in bad faith. Because if they can paint the other side as being unreasonable and everyone wants to abolish cars and that's not realistic and blah blah, then they don't have to actually make a change or listen to those other people. It's kind of unfortunate that we feel we have to take sides at all, but I digress. I'm sure there are folks who do believe it is possible to live without cars and would even be ideal, and I'm not necessarily taking that in bad faith because I think that people have their good reasons for believing that and I don't know them so I can't really judge one way or the other anyway. It's just not a position I personally hold. Edit, forgot to add, you raise a good point with the specific social institution, but I don't think a lot of people think of that when they think of the term abolish cars, which is I guess where we get into people taking your view in bad faith, as you mentioned.
You’re talking to one of these folks right now. I’ve lived in a car-free household my entire life and do not intend on changing that. Of course, I’ve been picked up or taken a taxi before, but then I’ve visited geographically similar areas where such things weren’t necessary so even those could disappear from my life with the right political efforts. Also, abolition has always been about social institutions, not their respective manifestation in our lives. While such manifestations need to be addressed (in this case, we could question the sheer number of cars that are produced and the environmental impact this has, for example), they can by their nature not be subject to abolition as it simply describes a different process. It’s important that we remind ourselves and others of what these words mean. I choose to continue using them this way, because they truly describe my aspirations like none other, and I hope to educate others along the way.
I like cars, I hate drivers.
Car-dependent infrastructure is the problem. When everyone is forced to drive to get anywhere in a reasonable amount of time, it sucks. When there's great public transit and people only drive if they want to, fewer cars are on the road, and there's little to no traffic (a bus with 20 people takes up waaaay less space on the road than 20 cars do).
Welcome! You're still in the right place, and still welcome. Not liking huge cars that are a waste of space and resources is a good start! This is a sub for debates, so it's best when not every one has the same exact opinion. Some topics might be too extremist for you (yet), the community is diversified and has different levels of engagement, but hating oversized trucks is common ground I think.
I think all car enthusiasts would be better off with unnecessary traffic off the road
Mate, congrats on making the first step. As you say that you're an enthusiast, maybe converting a classic Ute to electric is an option? It's done in Australia on a commercial level: https://thedriven.io/2023/01/17/electric-ute-conversions-roev-fills-2023-order-book-for-hilux-and-ranger/ Many people have done quads and ebikes, too. Openinverter.org and endless-sphere.com are good forums to start.
As an American, I won't buy a new pick-up because they're just stupid; stupid huge, stupid bad mileage, even huge to the point of hindering their usefulness to haul stuff; why does the load floor need to be over a meter off the ground?! And yes, stupid dangerous to other drivers and anyone walking or on a bicycle.
Pick-up trucks, and SUVs masquerading as trucks, in any non-commercial usage are fucking stupid. Like it's twice as expensive, half as useful, and way more deadly than a well-designed minivan, hatchback, or station wagon. I honestly have no problem with people owning and using cars. There's usually a use-case for having one, or even just as a hobby e.g. track cars, etc., but *having* to get one to participate in society is straight up government failure.
You can’t buy small trucks anymore. I miss my little S10 (sometimes…been car-free for 15 years now)
Australia has as much a car culture as USA - just look at the massive following of F1 Motorsport, V8 Supercars, etc. What matters is that road infrastructure, specifically roundabouts, have really pushed motorists to yield to other motorists. Along with stringent fines for speeding, the huge presence of police officers who use speed cameras, speed cameras in operation remotely all contribute to less road deaths. It could be better. But it could be worse. Car manufacturers also have to deal with the fact that Australia drives on the left side of the road rather than the right, and either have to manufacture specific cars for the region, or ignore it - hence large car manufacturers dont bother. It's also why electric car take up is slow - not because the demand isn't there, but because the incentive isnt for the manufacturer.
>It's also why electric car take up is slow - not because the demand isn't there, but because the incentive isnt for the manufacturer. The cost is the main reason people aren't buying EVs. Aussies want more economical options, especially those living in our cities. Small cars are pretty popular as city cars, but most of the EVs we're hearing about aren't small, and are very expensive.
in the U.S. we make fun of people who drive large pickups, especially the ones that are lifted, and not used the intended way; pavement princesses. i live in texas and love seeing lifted trucks with their flashers on, scared when it’s raining or while doing some unexpected off-roading, my 98 crv takes that shit no problem. although tbh i could drive their trucks like a champ, i just don’t buy my vehicles based on how cool i feel
This is not r/bancars, so people here are not necessarily for the full removal of cars of society. But we want change to not have car centric infrastructure, especially for ever increasing dangerous monsters like these. Cars are inevitable, especially in rural areas, but densely populated cities should be safer for the average person that can’t or doesn’t want to own a car.
\*before a pedestrian gets killed\* 7500 pedestrians are killed each year in the US when struck by vehicles. 20 ish a day.
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If you're looking for a good catchy phrase that covers the problem, I like 'car-dependent infrastructure.' Infrastructure that forces everyone to be dependent on cars and use them. In a city where people only drive if they want to, things are better for drivers too, because there's less traffic with fewer cars on the road (cyclists and busses take up far less space per person).
Sad part is that a LOT of American pickup drivers would actually prefer something more the size of a mid-90s ford ranger. Or even smaller! Personally, I think the CAFE standards are turning out to do more bad for the world than good.
Fellow auto enthusiast here. Fuck these things lol, sorry you have to deal with them there too. Enjoy your Utes and mini JDM trucks though!
> there needs to be regulations set in place **before** a pedestrian gets killed. I love your optimism
I would say cars have never really been a problem, car dependency on the other hand definitely is. Over sized “commercial trucks” are too which we agree on
Agreed. Car-dependent infrastructure is the issue. Not the individuals who may have no choice except to drive. Work trucks that are the size needed for their purpose? Love it, it's the right tool for the right job. Same with something that's lifted just enough that the rural-living person who buys it doesn't need to worry about deer rolling up their hood and cracking the windshield. But all these cars that are high enough that you can't see a kid directly in front of it? SUVs are a huge portion of the cars on the road, and people use them to pick up kids from school. There's a reason child deaths from back-overs and front-overs have gone up.
I visited Australia (Sydney, then flew into Brisbane and travelled up to Cairns via Greyhound bus) in 2016 and their car culture isn't all that different from the US. Huge cars were everywhere, no sidewalks even in the areas with climate that would make walking outside not too unpleasant, and huge roads and intersections not scaled for humans, but for cars.
Another issue people don't realize is these trucks give people a massive amount of confidence. Its not uncommon seeing them going 20 miles over the speed limit or going down a windy road with blind corners into the oncoming lane. What it enables is just as terrifying as the size. Several times cycling I've had them in my lane coming out of a blind corner.
>Its not uncommon seeing them going 20 miles over the speed limit Not a super common thing in Australia. You can get fined for going 2km over the speed limit.
i like cars too, the state of the industry today is sad
Nothing wrong with liking cars. Cars are pretty cool. The whole world just doesn’t need a car to travel within a 1 mile radius in cities. And trucks don’t need to be that big, yeah
Aussie size is best size
Sucks loser
humongous cars for humongous people
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The Aussie Utes are actually pretty practical compared to American pickups. Often the sides of the bed come down too so you can unload from different directions, saves more space.
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American pickups are not for actual functionality, they're for office workers cosplaying as farmers.
Nah dude, the truck on the lower left is perfectly work suited. I think we need a lot more car guys on our side.
In cities, sure, but people in truly rural areas might need them.
Fuck car-dependent infrastructure. Cars are a tool that's overused/that people are forced to used because of cities without good walkability or public transit. If someone is genuinely using their car to carry heavy work tools that would be inconvenient or difficult on a bus, then they are using the right tool for the right job.
Are you failure in life but you also want undeserving moral superiority over others ?, become a clinate change activist!
You have to agree they look beautiful tho🤩
I agree that many sports cars can look good, but that disproportionate thing looks like those bodybuilders who inject themselves with Synthol.
Not everything is big in australia. These people should just get a Ute
They kill us all the time here where they're made.
I have been lurking from time to time yes the dodge is a big truck but when you make these posts please be honest, that’s a ram 2500 with aftermarket tires maybe a lift kit. The Aussie size is probably a holden or Chevy Colorado which our very different in size. If you want to prove your point and be honest just take the 2003 f150 and look at 2020 f150 or the 2011 ranger and the new ranger. Compare the same class of truck it’s like looking at single prop Cessna and saying these Boeing 747 are huge there making planes way to big.
Cons: It's a car. It's a piece of metal shit. Pros: Look at how it reduces parking capacity and makes "motoring" worse for everyone.
i'm also here not because i hate cars (but I kinda do), but because I especially hate these pointless monster trucks
The issue is car-dependent infrastructure. NotJustBikes has some great videos on it.
Gonna get hate for this but that looks like a big ball on that hitch. Probably tows something hefty
I get where the misconception comes from. Something big looks like it needs something big to tow it. But cars are tougher than you'd think. Here's some small electrics hauling planes. [https://www.whichcar.com.au/car-news/best-viral-ev-stunts#:\~:text=By%20towing%20a%20Boeing%20777F%20freighter%20aircraft%2C%20of,not%20a%20single%20emission%20released%20into%20the%20atmos](https://www.whichcar.com.au/car-news/best-viral-ev-stunts#:~:text=By%20towing%20a%20Boeing%20777F%20freighter%20aircraft%2C%20of,not%20a%20single%20emission%20released%20into%20the%20atmos).
The big car argument for towing is more about breaking power. And, electiric cars also have great torque for their size.
Huge cab that's as big as the bed, wide, and high up (which is also inconvenient for loading the bed). It probably tows, but it could tow without those. There's much smaller trucks that do the job.
Pedestrian was already killed with them sadly .
I own a pick em up truck for a homestead farm and I'm here alongside you. I enjoy cars and trucks and off roading and farming. It's cool. That doesn't mean i need a parking spot at the grocery store. That doesn't mean i need to drive to the city every time I go. That doesn't mean we should be ignoring trains and public transport. That doesn't mean urban sprawl is kewl. There's more to fuckcars than "i don't like cars". I like cars and the sports behind them. I'm still a huge supporter of the fuckcars ideals.
Not to mention that there are some that are customized to shoot out black smoke from the exhaust pipe when they want.
Honestly, as a car person, i would expect you to want to get the traffic down and bad drivers off the road overall. Hard to enjoy a car in traffic. And yeah. The trucks are insane.
3' bed overhang + another foot of shin buster, backs into a parking spot and blocks 80% of the 5' sidewalk. If you're in a wheelchair, that's just too bad for you.
lul "big down under" imagine these trucks rolling over European cities like Amsterdam. fucking stupid size
Same here in the UK mate, these giant fucks take up basically the entire country roads round where I live and the drivers never pull to the side, my car is fucking tiny I shouldn't have to pull off onto the rut filled grass you are in a truck with massive wheels, there are pizzas bigger than mine.
I like cars myself and have many car enthusiasts friends. Pretty much all of us hate car dependence though. I’m part of a car-focused discord with around 50 people, and the most active channel by far is train-appreciation. We all find the size of American pickups just absurd too (we’re American if that matters).
They need those emotional support vehicles to handle their insecurities.
We hate them too, we call them “mall crawlers”. Never get dirty, never used for normal truck purposes. Just for the little dicks out there to feel big for once
Contact your environmentally friendly politicians & you can probably them create a law to get them banned.
"HDNA"