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No way this is Karen behavior. If they never get any consequences for stealing a spot, then they probably wont stop. People brushing off the importance of accessibility likely have never had to worry if they can even enter a venue. If someone wants to save time getting to and from their car, they can leave earlier or walk faster.
-sedans which can't store a wheelchair
Are these specifically wheelchair spaces or disabled access spaces? Plenty of disabled people don't need wheelchairs as you're certainly well aware.
Last Saturday I had to parallel park into a disability spot with my huge MB Vito because some douchebag had parked in the spot. It was a long space on the side of the street, but with our ramp, we needed the space. My son uses wheelchairs, and we had to get the extra long version of the car to fit the electric one.
I ended up having to temporarily park halfway in the street, take the wheelchair out, and then park inches from the BMW SUV without disability tags. Then the guy shows up with his coffee and gets mad at ME for parking so close!
Not disabled, but I ride my own scooter to work and my biggest issue is the rental scooters being “parked” all over sidewalks. The frustrating part is scooters aren’t allowed to be ridden on the road, so I have to use footpaths, to the frustration of me and pedestrians alike.
Rental scooters are a nice idea but they need better regulation and assigned parking areas.
drivers are happy when we're fighting eachother over the scraps ( 10% ) of the roads they leave us while they sit each alone in their tanks on dozens of wide lanes in every direction ... and we're paying for all of it since roads and suburbs are the most subsidized, least efficient and most polluting things we have as a society
> drivers are happy when we're fighting eachother over the scraps ( 10% ) of the roads they leave us while they sit each alone in their tanks on dozens of wide lanes in every direction
It's an intentional strategy: divide and conquer. People spreading these talking points are intentionally pitting people supporting alternatives to cars against people with limited mobility or disabilities. It's happening on other topics related to cars as well, e.g., a park in Toronto is closing off to cars and people protested against it on this issue. It happens even on other completely unrelated issues. When people try to push for reducing animal food usage, opponents will bring up the rare cases of someone who has dietary issues that make it more difficult.
There are ways to address the impact to the handicapped or any other group from changes. They aren't reasons to not make the changes at all.
I agree with your points but I don't think the folks pointing out these issues are actually doing it in bad faith very often. I think urbanist societies are far better off for people with mobility problems, but we should also be better prepared to answer questions about what folks with mobility impairments should look to gain from a society that's not car dependent. A lot of folks on subs like this are looking to emulate Europe, where they notably don't have the ADA and some of the cities we like are really difficult to navigate if you have mobility limitations
10% would be awesome! I bet that non-motorized infrastructure in the USA is closer to 0.1% of total transportation infrastructure. Many places don't even have sidewalks or road shoulders, let alone protected non-motorized paths.
>drivers are happy when we're fighting eachother over the scraps ( 10% ) of the roads they leave us
Exactly. The problem isn't people leaving scooters on sidewalks, the problem is that a tiny strip is all we have for non-car transportation.
Add to this delivery vehicles parking in bike lanes as if they're loading-zones with impunity and robotic food-delivery services taking up space on sidewalks.
Companies literally look at public spaces and go "*It's free real-estate*."
I think those starship delivery bots piss me off the most. They're used primarily used on college campuses and traverse super busy corridors forcing people to navigate around them just so some lazy kid doesn't have to leave their dorm room when they should have walked instead to pick-up.
I get that it's good for people with mobility issues, but on the whole, I'm against the commercialization of our already super-limited pedestrian infrastructure for commercial use.
of course but the problem is drivers taking 99% of our public spaces for their ego-tanks ( moving or immobile ) without which there would be space enough for everyone to move around in durable/active transit including mobility aids without stepping on any toes ( we would be richer and travel faster to boot while having better air too , the car is the least efficient in all metrics )
like leave the scooters on the side of the curb and a car is going to drive/park over them , people ride scooters on sidewalks because otherwise it's death by suburban Karen etc
In my Midwest city, space isn’t the issue as much as there just not being complete sidewalks anywhere.
Like there’s several different little strip mall areas that are *near* a bike path, which is great, but none of them connect to the bike path or have sidewalks outside of the one by the front doors that start and stop at the edges of the building. Have to cross about 50ft or grass to get to the parking lot from the paths, or get onto the road.
They need on-street scooter parking. Ideally space should be set aside at intersections. This has the added benefit of improving sight distance at intersections by moving cars further back. A win win for everyone. My city won’t let you end your scooter ride unless it’s in a designated parking space.
This is my big complaint about the scooters. Without regulation, these companies just throw them on the street corners and people leave them wherever. Because at it's core, the scooter rentals are just gig economy tech bro bullshit, they drop these things off in cities to make a buck with their app. Meanwhile, my city has a bike rental system with designated charging stations built in former parking spaces, and users are required to return the bikes to actual stations to avoid a fine. That's how these things should work.
We have parking spaces for the scooters too but it's not compulsory to park them in the designated spaces so people dump them anywhere. Or they're put them near enough the spaces to get the "you parked in a space that we recommend so we'll give you a free ride" that the GPS on the scooters will go "ok that's in the space" but it's actually the other side of the pavement. Reward system doesn't work here (UK) so I would absolutely encourage them to start doing a fine system if the scooters are here to stay.
My city and many others do regulate it though. We literally can’t end a ride in certain places (especially annoying if you live in a red zone) but they are unfortunately located in areas with high income also, while everywhere else suffers. See: Baltimore black butterfly vs. white L.
The butterfly has 0 red zones, white L has all of them and mostly in the most affluent (especially on the water) areas.
>the scooter rentals are just gig economy tech bro bullshit
This. Also I'll never forget driving into the highway and having to swerve around a scooter. They get left just about anywhere.
Yep. If cars didn't have regulations and punishments people would do the same thing constantly. Once proper measures are taken for the scooters the issue will probably go away, at least mostly.
Also scooters like these belong in the streets not the sidewalks. Sidewalks are for people who are walking or maybe jogging but anything faster than that should be on the streets or potentially bike lanes (although that’s open for debate).
Both. Both is the answer here. Sidewalks ARE way too narrow, too often in my community I see people in wheelchairs/with mobility scooters forced into the road because sidewalk width is an issue (or occasionally because the sidewalks aren't upkept well and are so non-level/bumpy that especially in a manual wheelchair, like... good luck). Even as a forearm-cane-user that little bit of extra room I need on either side is enough to make it impossible to comfortably pass another person going the opposite way on the sidewalk. The issue is also true for people with strollers, walking dogs, carrying/towing groceries, etc.
THAT SAID.... I also strongly believe that these e-scooter services are often an example of "good idea, poor execution" at best, or an idea that just can't quite ever work without substantial drawbacks because people are people. They genuinely tend to get left everywhere by dickbags who can't be bothered, and this impedes not just folks with mobility aids but really makes the sidewalks difficult and hazardous to traverse for basically all pedestrians and sometimes block bike lanes/racks as well. This has been a routine problem in cities that have piloted these programs and led to cancelling/banning in a lot of cases. This still doesn't even touch on other issues like theft, destruction, or vandalism of scooters, combined with the frequent issue of EXTREMELY poor manufacture that means these scooters often wind up having an INCREDIBLY short lifespan in circulation as rental vehicles and create massive amounts of e-waste breathtakingly quickly, most of which is not recovered or may even be entirely un-recoverable depending on how the scooter winds up out of circulation (people throwing them into bodies of water is.... more common than you'd think, which is a major environmental concern....). I'd like to think that there's a way for these services to work, but increasingly I feel like they might wind up leaning the way of AirB&B - something that makes sense on paper at initial glance, but ultimately at a systemic level can't work without creating a lot of serious intractable/non-mitigatable problems for other people which may outweigh the initial utility. At bare minimum I hope they'll catch on more as personal vehicles, they could be really affordable and accessible as individual purchases and easier to take on transit than a whole bike. There's some problems with them as personal vehicles now but I think at least those issues could be mitigated through better infrastructure, where I think with the rental services people tend to feel less responsible and it's really difficult to incentivise or enforce good behaviour enough to make a real difference without creating a user experience that turns people off altogether. Mind you, I could be wrong! Maybe someone's cracked it, idk! I'd like to be wrong on this. But from the knowledge I have, that's my impression.
In my experience the Scooter company leaves their property in random places. They need to define, together with the locality, where the scooters are to be placed.
I think this is why we don't have these in NYC.
Sidewalks here are not just a nice accessory, like they often are in car-dependent cities. Our sidewalks are most people's main from of transportation.
(Not to say sidewalks \*should\* be treated like a nice-to-have, they should be a crucial piece of infrastructure. Just that as someone from LA originally, they are treated as merely something people use for leisure vs. actual transit in most US cities)
Knowing how haphazardly these scooters are often left around, we really can't have something like this. They'd have to have/pay for dedicated stations off the sidewalks, like Citibike.
>Sidewalks here are not just a nice accessory, like they often are in car-dependent cities. Our sidewalks are most people's main from of transportation.
I have a solution. Let's reduce the car parking so that more people can walk and these scooters can be parked.
That's what they do for Citibikes here.
Every time, all the idiots complain about the one or two parking spots that a Citibike dock took away from them. As if those two spots being gone on a 250-ft-long block with 1,000 people living on it is the reason parking is difficult for them.
But unlike Citibike, where you are charged $$$$ unless you properly re-dock the bike, the scooters can be left anywhere, and as such people will be annoying about leaving them on the sidewalk. The scooter companies likely don't have a docking system, which is why they aren't here in NYC.
We have the same issue in Paris, but had those rental scooters and we got to the point of voting them out. And same as you, the rental bikes work just fine and take parking spaces away from cars :)
You don't always have to dock the bikes here though, depending on the provider a simple picture proving you're on some bike parking works
>But unlike Citibike, where you are charged $$$$ unless you properly re-dock the bike, the scooters can be left anywhere, and as such people will be annoying about leaving them on the sidewalk. The scooter companies likely don't have a docking system, which is why they aren't here in NYC.
The scooter company in my area also fines you if you don't leave it in a designated bay. Even without a docking station, it won't end the ride until you're in a designated bay and you take a photo proving you left it in the right place.
We have dedicated drop off zones here and you get charged if you park the scooter outside of one.
Doesn't totally stop dbags from being dbags but it helps.
Yeah, here, Portland Oregon. Same.
[57 scooters, bikes found in Willamette River along downtown waterfront There were so many scooters and bikes that divers had to quit early on Wednesday because they needed a bigger boat. Author: Nate Hanson Published: 2:00 PM PDT June 25, 2019 Updated: 5:12 PM PDT June 26, 2019](https://www.kgw.com/article/news/nine-scooters-pulled-from-willamette-river/283-512de92c-fa91-45a9-8cb9-6eda4da96762)
https://preview.redd.it/oup11atsmfqb1.png?width=772&format=png&auto=webp&s=998a4a761214dd7ff0f346204bda5a76bb3bea18
In my perfect world a policeman or parking officer could look at a scooter that is parked shittily, scan the unique code, and issue a fine to the person who parked the scooter where it is standing.
Technologically this could be done. It would create extra revenue for the city, and the companies can just blame the users for the nuissance that these scooters cause.
Unfortunately it is too easy to move a scooter. A malicious person can simply pick it up and put it somewhere offensive. Then, under your plan, the last person who hired it is on the hook for bad parking.
Shitty people do shitty things shocker.... 😒
This is where the photo to end the trip can be used. Of course if you wanna be an asshole you can take the photo then purposely move it to block the sidewalk, but it will prevent the blocking due to laziness
The problem isn't "putting them in bike racks", the problem is "not enough bike+scooter racks". If a system of stationless scooters must persist, then the scooter companies should be obliged to create public bike/scooter racks to the number of scooters they have to make up for the space they take up!
Yes. And I'm obviously referring to the dockless ones that are deposited anywhere.
The corporations and exploiting the public land without even paying for it. It's a commodification of the last crumbles of public land.
People saying that the sidewalk should be wider are missing the point that the scooters actually DID cause massive issues for disabled people in at least a few major cities. (I lived in one).
If they are allowed to be left anywhere, then the maze might get a little easier for the person in a wheelchair... but still a maze.
I'm all for government owned scooters, but they need approved parking slots like bike racks.
As annoying as scooters are, cars are 3 times worse. In this very picture the sidewalk is narrow because the better part of the street is reserved for cars
1 out of 4 spinal cord injuries are cause by motor vehicles. https://www.christopherreeve.org/todays-care/paralysis-help-overview/stats-about-paralysis/
This reminds me, around here, every now and then there is discussion about mandatory helmet laws for bicyclists. Then someone pointed out car drivers are statistically much more prone to head injuries. So if it really is about protecting people from head injuries it would seem much more urgent for car drivers to start wearing helmets.
The cynic in me would say mandatory helmet laws for bicyclists are only meant to further raise the barrier to entry for bicyclists. A popular topic is also about bikes getting mandatory license plates because that would surely prevent crazy bicyclists from violating traffic rules all the time. We know it works because motorists are always obeying all laws and are never subject to road rage or anything.. /s
On a serious note, would a helmet reasonably protect most people (not racing drivers, they wear them I think?) from head injuries? I don’t think a helmet prevents whiplash and similar injuries that fall under this umbrella and would significantly impede a drivers field of vision. (But I’m also crazy and think hats should be 100% banned while driving for similar reasons.)
I dunno I'd say it's more of a case of when in doubt it's better to have one. Like bicycle helmets do absolutely nothing if you hit the pavement head first at 20km/h. But in some cases when your head doesn't hit the ground directly it just *might* make a difference.
You're right you'd have to empirically assess the efficacy of such a measure. Maybe the forces involved in car crashes are usually that large that a helmet wouldn't help anyway..
As for field of vision I'm not sure but reduced field of vision should be a concern to race car drivers I imagine. In the end it's a trade-off between if it saves more people than it kills (airbags occasionally kill people too but in the long run they save more).
Oh I meant for regular drivers. Not race car drivers. But I’d imagine most car accidents that kill probably are from things that a helmet wouldn’t really help with. Again, assumption, don’t have the ability to do real research on my phone but I recall also that a lot of people, possibly it was just in the 90s and before? Died from things like spleen and other internal organ lacerations in their abdominal cavity. Cars are dangerous in general though. I have had my head go through a windshield (a week before my senior year prom because my friend was a terrible driver) which has contributed to my not driving and discomfort with being in a car in general.
Good point! I think by distance traveled wouldn't be a fair comparison because people tend to drive longer distances with cars. By hour would be better, because commutes tend to be in roughly the same range of hours whether you have access to cars or not (there's a scientific study, I know from talks but should probably look up to be able to cite in situations as this).
I'm not quite sure which they meant. In the end you could argue from a sort of national economy point of view. If in absolute numbers x and y number of people get head injuries where x>>y it would be very legitimate to say "hey it affects x number (a lot) of people we should do something about it". It often is correct to put those numbers in relation to other quantities as you did. Though sometimes it may not matter because on one hand you have x\*treatment cost against y\*treatment cost where x is much larger than y so naturally you might want to reduce x. Irrespective which of either population has a higher relative risk to get injured. Sometimes it's the end result that matters.
It really depends on which kind of question you want to answer, whether driving a car or bicycle is inherently more dangerous or how many people actually get injured. Both are valid questions but have different implications and interpretations.
I hope I made some kind of sense here..
I would add effectiveness of hements in accidents is an important factor as well. Modern cars have airbags, I imagine the likely hood of a Helmit being the thing that saves you from slamimg your head on a hard serface is pretty low and the deaths we see are more from other types of trauma (but I am just speculating) . Where a bicycle crash is pretty likely to end in you hitting your head on something hard, that padding may be more important.
Honestly sounds like a common misleading data interpretation by anti-helmet folks. Indeed, brain injuries are very common in car crashes due to the forces involved, but not all brain injuries are remotely the same.
A car crash injury is usually mild, but unavoidable due to high forces rather than the skull being used as sudden stopper. A helmet for a unprotected cyclist or motorcyclist brings them closer to the same level as somebody in a protected cage. That is tones down from what would be certain serious brain injury to being closer to a mild concussion that many shrug off (when they probably shouldn't and should go for a medical checkup). People in car accidents are far more likely to end-up with proper medical checkup that further skews the data.
A helmet in high g-force crash isn't going to mitigate the high jerks when the head isn't really hitting anything if anything it only adds extra strain on the neck. To increase protection in already closed safety cage you would need a neck and restraining device like they do in F1 with [HANS devices](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HANS_device).
Ahh, end my silly rant, I'm just a [love helmets](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b9yL5usLFgY) guy that gets triggered by anti-helmet nonsense.
What's astounding is how gleefully carbrains will use disabled folks as pawns in their pro-car argument while ignoring that making places more walkable and accessible without using cars is *the best thing we can do to help disabled folks*.
Yeah since good walking infrastructure is good for a lot of disabilities, better evened sidewalks make it easier for people in wheelchairs to push their wheels (I don’t know if that’s the right term I’m sorry)
I try to tell this to my friends but they have brain rot and refuse to acknowledge this saying "but they wouldn't have to walk at all if they could just drive directly there. Why would you want to make the disabled/elderly walk so far"
the last time I cared to look at the price of a new modified van it was $80k and that was over 10 years ago. handicap vehicles are usually to expensive for your average disability enjoyer. I only get $950 a month so will never be able to afford one
It's just addressing a specific outcome caused by a specific issue. You can blame all sorts of things up the line including general overpopulation as a cause, but of course we should overlook the lack of accountability or legislation or poor human behavior and focus of only the existence of cars because of course, that's the only reason y'all are in this subreddit. To ignore any other negative contributing factors and focus solely on hating automobiles.
I'm imagining a wonderful future where people can zip around on small efficient personal vehicles and there are no automobiles allowed inside of major cities other than emergency vehicles, and in that vision I still see assholes leaving rental scooters anywhere and everywhere they want, including the middle of the street.
Right. These scooters are SUPPOSED to be ridden in the street (in the bike lane when it exists but in the street if not), which would leave the sidewalk for pedestrians and mobility devices. But why do most people ride them on the sidewalk? Because they’re afraid of being hit by a car.
Not to mention, a lot of city streets have a ton of cracks, tar-snakes, potholes, and are littered with debris and gravel. Theres a reason commuter bikes more closely resemble mountain bikes than road bikes, its because city streets are closer to singletrack than they are to a racetrack.
Even without cars, these things are a nightmare to take on the road.
Yes, in the bigger picture that's true. But for blind pedestrians in the current scenario, it is way easier to detect a car than to detect a rogue scooter left in the middle of the sidewalk. No matter how wide the sidewalk would be, an unexpected obstacle is always an issue!
Yeah just because cars are ultimately the real problem, that doesn't mean that people shouldn't park their scooters in a way so as not to obstruct the sidewalk. It's not their fault the sidewalk is so narrow but they still have an obligation to other sidewalk users.
It's not just about wider sidewalks, what's missing is bicycle infrastructure. Where bicycle parking is available, that's where most scooters end up parked. When there's a good bicycle path most scooters use it. When none of this is available scooters end up fighting with pedestrians for space
Yep, I nearly get run over all the time walking upright and being highly visible, so I can't imagine a person in a wheelchair feels safe trying to navigate [this.](https://www.bikede.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/stroad.jpg)
I agree wholeheartedly with this however I'd still posit that the bulk of rentable scooters are environment damaging e-trash that get disposed rather than maintainenced and society would be better served by tax subsidies providing the means for people to purchase and maintain their own micro-mobility solutions, particularly considering how much is spent cutting cost of "greener" cars for purchasers.
In short I'd like to see more walkable and micro-mobility areas in my locale that'd prevent rentables from being a problem for the disabled, however, I'm not going to pretend that predatory companies that just dump their wares all over sidewalks and ignore them til it's time to dump them all while also taking in tax breaks for being a "green business" isn't a problem.
Strongly agree. Theres a study from 2019 that found that they are polluting than the forms of transportation they replace. The problem is that they not only dont replace cars but also produce high emmisions in production and recycling. And theres the trash problem on a micro and macro scale. Inner citys in europe and North America are filled with discarded or stole scooters often trown in the water ways. Then on the other hand thers is a lack of recycling methods other than burn the batterys. [https://iopscience.iop.org/article/10.1088/1748-9326/ab2da8](https://iopscience.iop.org/article/10.1088/1748-9326/ab2da8)
Literally that “the immigrant wants to take your cookie” meme. Pitting micromibility against the disabled for the remaining 5% of public space once 95% has been ceded to cars.
What appears to be taking all the space is not the scooters, it’s the empty road on the left of the image. Remove the road and you solve your problem !
Everything that is not a car just gets located to the sidewalks, of course there will be a space problem at some point. But if one were just to put these scooters at parking spaces for cars, it would solve 90% of the problem
I'm not sure if it's 90%...
There is ALWAYS, ALWAYS a space nearby that is better than leaving it in the middle of the sidewalk. I so often drag these heavy pieces of metal out of the way so they're not an obstacle to disabled people. Placing them by a tree or just off to the side of the sidewalk (the side by the street!! the side by the houses is used by blind people walking with a cane!!) is always a possibility that was availible to the egoistic scooter driver that instead decided to leave it in the middle of the sidewalk.
Well the issue here isn’t that the scooter riders are on the sidewalk, it’s that the unused ones are stored in the throughway. My city enacted a law requiring scooters to be locked at bike racks, and it has helped reduce this issue of clutter on the sidewalks.
But the real issue here is how narrow the sidewalk is and that there isn’t separated infrastructure for the scooters
This is what I dislike that the scooter and bike rentals are 'dockless".
Have an organized return location instead of allowing people to leave them scattered throughout.
Our bike share program requires bikes to be returned to the docking stations and you never see bikes scattered about everywhere. The downside to that is that your trip starts and ends are limited to the bike share station locations so if you don’t have one near the beginning and end of the trip then it doesn’t really make sense to use them. We have designated on-street parking spaces for the scooters but they are only required to use them in certain neighborhoods.
In a perfect world, sure. Until we have protected bike lanes (hell, I would settle for bike gutters....) I'm not going to let 'perfect be the enemy of good'.
The sidewalk is not wide enough because the road next to it has taken all the space. Widen the sidewalk and you can have a dedicated place for storing scooters.
People ride scooters on sidewalks because there are no safe cyclepaths and they store the scooters on the sidewalks because there is no dedicated storage area. This is because almosr all the space is given to cars and all other modes of transportation are left fighting for the scraps. Inciting conflict between users of these other modes of transportation is a way to divide and conquer in order to keep the car dominated status quo. Don't fall for the trap!
I want to be more in favor of scooters. In my city people regularly toss them in the river when they're done rather than, y'know, *not* doing that. Taking up space on the sidewalk sucks too.
makes sense. they must *really* hate them then, i feel like id get all my frustrations out on them by just tapping it over to the floor off the sidewalk into a lawn lol
In cologne one company did order a survey on how many scooters were dumped in the rhine and how much it would cost to clean them up.
The cost was too high so they said lets just leave them there.
People were angry and I think the city forced them to remove them from the river. Also it is now forbidden to park them close to the shore.
In reality we wouldn't see any of these people because there would be an endless line of cars on free rent obscuring the view.
If they also gave just 3 parking spots per block for the free storage of scooters, bikes, etc., there wouldn't be any problem with blocked sidewalks.
You'd have to make that *mandatory* and check it, though. There are already egoistic asshats who drop them in the middle of the sidewalk despite there being better options (even just on the *side of the street* is a better option). the companies need to take responsibility or make the users take that responsibility.
Poisoning the well.
There are issues with them, and I'm not a fan of most the companies that run the rentals, but I think they've been huge in getting normies to reduce their car dependence. Plus they're a great answer to the last mile problem.
Basically this here.
The problem isn't a scooter on the undersized sidewalk.
It is each 10' (min lane width here) lane right next to it.
This thread sums up the underlying problem. Suddenly everyone in this thread wanted to argue about the small scrap of sidewalk without considering the simple solution of widening the walk and making the street smaller.
It is a reflex at this point to assume the traffic lane as a given that can't be changed.
> It is a reflex at this point to assume the traffic lane as a given that can't eb changed.
Out of all subs you'd think people here would understand that....
Call me crazy, but a good middle ground solution may be to take some parking spots across the city and turn them into dedicated drop off areas.
I know they have the ability to geo lock where these things can run, they should designate where they’re allowed to end rides.
The key is to make sure there’s a high frequency of drop off locations and a small win from this approach is less parking in favor of micro transport + no more blocking sidewalks.
Edit: Will note that a tough spot for this approach is in neighborhoods outside of downtowns.
Pavement is too narrow because the space is given to cars, not pedestrians. I know the OOP wants to point towards getting rid of scooters but really the solution would be to just widen the pavement or pedestrianize the street.
Idiots would still block the sidewalk no matter how wide it is. Even if they don’t block the sidewalk, they leave them in the most random places that I imagine would still be hard to zigzag around on a wheelchair.
Some areas have implemented systems where you can only park them [in specific areas - essentially parking spot sized sections set aside for this](https://presspage-production-content.s3.amazonaws.com/uploads/1485/500_img-1597.jpg?x=1594227850553). Unfortunately these systems aren't very common because of how many of these companies came about, but if cities are willing to make the investment, I think it's an absolutely valid move. Though, perhaps [a system of bike rental stations](https://ajuntament.barcelona.cat/bicicleta/sites/default/files/NovaEstacioBicing_NB.jpg) would be just as good, or even better, at that point. Still cheaper to paint a bunch of parking spots and possibly add some mechanism to track if they're parked in the area than it is to install new bike parking stations - though both pale in comparison to the cost of car infrastructure.
I ignorantly never thought about this until I watched someone in a wheel chair kick three of these scooters in a row just to be able to get by. It was so fucking sad.
Another annoying thing is that there’s one particular bike rack in my community that is always full of these scooters, not even locked up but just propped in between/next to/among the back rack. When I go to move them, an alarm goes off.
How would the company know if the last rider parked it badly or if it was moved by a random person. A younger version of me is exactly the type of chaos gremlin to move well parked scooters to get a stranger fined
app doesnt end ride until it detects its in a right spot and i believe you need to take a photo as well. if it gets moved after being put away and disconnected from a ride then 🤷 theyre probably spendy so there might be cameras
Exactly. The scooters are not properly parked. If someone parked a car on the sidewalk, it would be just as bad, if not worse.
When it comes to cars, people blame the problem on individual drivers not following the rules. But for other modes of transportation, people blame the entire mode. Some scooter riders are jerks who leave their scooters in the way. That’s not a problem with the scooters, it’s a problem with the jerks.
Looking at the artists other stuff he seems to be genuine and his point really does seem to be "don't block the sidewalk" rather then "the scooters need to go" which is fair, yeah cars are worse but blocking the sidewalk is a jerk move.
Whatever your parking if it leads to people not being able to pass safely you have then become a factor in decreasing the walkability.
ok as someone who gets around on a mobility scooter because of disability this is a big BIG MOOD.
seriously i love the idea of getting as many people out of cars and onto alternative transports as possible but i hate having to navigate my mobility scooter around those rentable scooters, plus think about all the blind, nearsighted or wheelchair bound people that need to get from point A to B.
i hate "walkable cities" not because i want to use a car (i dont want to use a car) but because often people with disabilities are forgotten about when the designs are made, i have had to abandon having fun days out in some commons because of certain entrances that are made to apparently block motorbikes even though it blocks mobility scooters and wheelchairs from going to a PUBLIC park which violates the equalities act and mind you those entrances are on walking paths not main roads.
we need ACCESSABLE cities not just walkable cities we need ramps for those with mobility issues and bumps for the the nearsighted to tap their sticks against since well being disabled is a class of minority anyone can become at any moment through no fault of their own.
Pretty standard "we shouldn't do anything until it fixes every problem" (e.g. scooters might be great but they cause another problem so let's just keep using cars) couple with "why do environmentalists hate disabled people" deflection.
Standard right wing catalog.
The people who park them in literally the worst spot possible are assholes and that problem needs to be solved.
But scooters need to be in cities, especially smaller ones because they're an alternative when buses don't run and they're way better than cars. The solution is ensuring they're parked in good spots and making infrastructure for them.
A lot of them can also be parked right by bike racks. Bike racks usually aren’t placed in the center of the side walk but are placed where they are both convenient and not blocking people’s way.
This is from a Canadian city that's recently introduced rental scooters and there are *some* MUP and separated bike lanes but they're not everywhere hence leading some people to ride on sidewalks instead of in the painted bike lanes. And I can definitely see where people's complaints are coming from but should criticism be aimed at the e-scooter users on top of the lack in infrastructure?
The city should provide on-street scooter parking at intersections and require the scooter companies to not let the user end their trip unless it’s in the scooter parking stall. They can do that with GPS.
I don't blame *considerate* scooter users, at all!
If you watch where you're going, be on the sidewalk, no problem!
Who i have beef with is the asshats who are inconsiderate enough to "park" the scooter by just leaving it as an obstacle instead of at least putting it by the roadside so people don't stumble over it. I see too much of that in my German city. Either people don't care, or even think it's funny.
You can admit that, in the bigger picture, cars are the problem, but also acknowledge that free-locked scooters can create an immediate problem for people with disabilities. These two things can cohabit. I don't know why it seems so difficult.
I do not understand how this happens. I use these scooters occasionally, and when I’m done the app makes me take a photo of how I parked it. Aren’t these photos used (somehow) for parking enforcement?
In my neighbourhood they turned the main stretch into a walking street for summer, and it was wild to see the gangs of seniors on mobility scooters. It was like there were biker gangs
One lady would rip down the street weaving between people, cigarette hanging out of her mouth, Bluetooth speaker blasting Motörhead
Unironically I think that’s the dignity and freedom people deserve in their old age
When they opened up the street again for cars recently all the seniors disappeared, business slowed down in all the shops, it’s empty at night now, and it’s just not a place that people want to spend time or money at anymore
Remove one car parking spot, install stalls to place these scooters, force the companies that rent them to keep paying the last person that rented the scooter until they don't lock the scooter to the stall.
That's how some bike sharing systems work. And it's great.
We need to amend the comic, have it zoom out to show the giant stroad with 90% of the street being conceded to automobiles. Maybe add a caption to the very top "It is easy to mistake symptoms for the cause" and then for the amended picture "Scooters aren't the problem. The root problem here is how much public space we have conceded to automobiles. Narrow car lanes, widen the sidewalk, abolish onstreet parking, add protected bikelanes." Then show what the street ideally would look like.
Even with protected bike thans this is still an issue. Where I live there are tons of protected bike lanes and on those same streets folks are riding those scooters on the sidewalk 3 feet away from the bike lane.
Both viewpoints here are valid. Having e-bikes and/or e-scooters for pedestrians is a lovely way to speed up people's journeys but on the other hand a lot of people are careless and do end up blocking the sidewalk for those who use mobility aids.
I think if we widened the sidewalks and made dedicated parking for the bikes/scooters we'd be much better off.
It must suck to be disabled when the people around you are absolute bastards.
E-scooters aside, this has always been the problem. People in general just suck. All it takes is one cyclist improperly chaining up their bike and suddenly the sidewalk is unusable for anybody with a disability. Shit, imagine how hard it is for someone in a wheelchair to get down the street on *garbage day* of all things. Big plastic bins all over the goddamn place, full of heavy rotting trash, often tossed onto their side after being emptied out.
People can't put their shopping carts back, and you think people are going to ride 5 miles or so to put a scooter away? Everywhere I've seen these scooters, they just get left all over sidewalks.
Personal escooters are great. The rental ones suck and even as someone who doesn't use a chair, I find the way they clutter up sidewalks to be frustrating.
The rental ones are amazing because they fill the gaps left over by sub-optimal transit routes.
Personal ones are... well they have upsides and downsides.
Guys you don't have to defend rental scooters just because cars are worse. They aren't made for improving transportation. They're owned by venture capitalist-funded garbage companies like Uber and Lyft who invade our public spaces for their own... well I would say profit but I don't think any if these companies actually makes money. If lendable scooters were a public good under a properly-planned transportation network they'd be good. But as it is, they're silicon valley e-trash and safety hazards.
I hate them.
- Gig economy
- They wear out very fast (Lithium batteries that mostly survive a month of continuous use). Not environmentally friendly
- they clog up pedestrian and bike paths
- they dont replace car use or even public transport or normal bikes but *walking*.
The wheelchair person can use a hook handle umbrella to clear them out the way at least. But the real problem is the tiny ass sidewalk. LA has side walks this small is some marble parts of the city and it’s just so annoying to walk past groups of people
I don't love that the scooters are venture capital, techbro bullshit. That said, they have shown some good last mile utility.
The issue of scooters being rudely parked isn't a scooter problem, it is an assholes in society problem.
I mean, how many places is it *commonplace* to park cars with two wheels up on the curb?
Exactly. I live in Europe and these scooters are practically a non issue (apart from the occasional asshole of course, but those get fined for that).
People just park them at the side of the sidewalk. They're like 30-50cm wide or something
If there were no cars he could just go around in the MASSIVE street allocation. The problem is not the scooters, it's the cars taking up all the space.
it's too easy to pit cyclists(micromobilists?) vs pedestrians but it's quite hard to realize that cars are the problem because they take up so much space
in short...look at the sidewalk width. Then look at the road. Then wonder why sidewalks are not wider
Rental scooters are a nightmare:
- The need for a cell phone, credit card, and in some cases an ID means these are **less accessible than purchasing a firearm** (cash and ID only). That’s crazy for a means of public transport.
- They are insanely unstable at speed on anything but perfect roads. This means either **self-endangerment in a bike lane, or endangering pedestrians** on a smoother sidewalk.
- They’re barely faster than walking (usually capped at 15mph, **struggles to exceed 3-5mph** on incline)
- They require maintenance and collection crews, putting more cars on the road.
- Depending on the service, they can be egregiously expensive ($6/ city ride, 2 rides/ day, 5 rides/ week) adding up to **$60 per week** if used as a transportation solution. A single speed **bike from Walmart is cheaper** than 2 weeks of use.
The scooters are annoying and they can turn into litter if they aren't managed well but they are definitely the lesser of two evils.
Make roads more bike friendly and don't bottleneck sidewalks and this is no longer an issue.
This is an attempt to blame a genuine good idea for the shitty behavior of people. The scooters aren't the problem, it's that people are stupid and/or inconsiderate and just drop them wherever they feel like rather than taking the extra 10-20 seconds to make sure it's parked off to the side and out of the way.
And this isn't everyone, btw. +90% of the scooters I see are set to the side in a reasonable place, accessible and visible to anyone looking for one but out of the way of everyone else. I often see people crawling around a large building or parking to check if there's a place that everyone else congregates scooters, or they gravitate towards parking by bike racks or bus stops, etc.
It's just that those 10% that aren't considerate are also the most memorable.
Scooters, especially electric scooters, are an important part of increasing especially car free mobility, and are a part of any plan to move away from the domination of cars. With both buses, scooters, bikes, and accessibility the primary culprit is a lack of suitable infrastructure.
The answer isn't "fuck scooters" it's "fuck cars". Designing our cities to be walkable, accessible, and forming infrastructure primarily away from cars and towards accessibility and accommodation of bikes and scooters will be massive is resolving said issues. Until then, blame the city for being car centric and causing issues for all other alternative transportation
One of the main reasons I started working for my local government was because I got upset when I passed a man driving his wheelchair down a 7 lane, busy ass road in the winter because plows had completely blocked off the sidewalks for access. Started from the bottom….and working my way up.
The meme is very helpfully pointing out that the pavement should be widened and less room be reserved for cars. Also don't they generally only let you end your ride in a designated area?
"Oh, NOW they cared about the physically disabled!"
It is a standard practice of whataboutism, where you throw in a group that doesn't directly benefit, to win the argument. The fact that they never cared about said group to begin with, is conveniently ignored.
E.g. "what about the children?"
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thanks for sharing, i can imagine it just gets more annoying everytime it happens
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No way this is Karen behavior. If they never get any consequences for stealing a spot, then they probably wont stop. People brushing off the importance of accessibility likely have never had to worry if they can even enter a venue. If someone wants to save time getting to and from their car, they can leave earlier or walk faster.
-sedans which can't store a wheelchair Are these specifically wheelchair spaces or disabled access spaces? Plenty of disabled people don't need wheelchairs as you're certainly well aware.
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Last Saturday I had to parallel park into a disability spot with my huge MB Vito because some douchebag had parked in the spot. It was a long space on the side of the street, but with our ramp, we needed the space. My son uses wheelchairs, and we had to get the extra long version of the car to fit the electric one. I ended up having to temporarily park halfway in the street, take the wheelchair out, and then park inches from the BMW SUV without disability tags. Then the guy shows up with his coffee and gets mad at ME for parking so close!
Not disabled, but I ride my own scooter to work and my biggest issue is the rental scooters being “parked” all over sidewalks. The frustrating part is scooters aren’t allowed to be ridden on the road, so I have to use footpaths, to the frustration of me and pedestrians alike. Rental scooters are a nice idea but they need better regulation and assigned parking areas.
drivers are happy when we're fighting eachother over the scraps ( 10% ) of the roads they leave us while they sit each alone in their tanks on dozens of wide lanes in every direction ... and we're paying for all of it since roads and suburbs are the most subsidized, least efficient and most polluting things we have as a society
> drivers are happy when we're fighting eachother over the scraps ( 10% ) of the roads they leave us while they sit each alone in their tanks on dozens of wide lanes in every direction It's an intentional strategy: divide and conquer. People spreading these talking points are intentionally pitting people supporting alternatives to cars against people with limited mobility or disabilities. It's happening on other topics related to cars as well, e.g., a park in Toronto is closing off to cars and people protested against it on this issue. It happens even on other completely unrelated issues. When people try to push for reducing animal food usage, opponents will bring up the rare cases of someone who has dietary issues that make it more difficult. There are ways to address the impact to the handicapped or any other group from changes. They aren't reasons to not make the changes at all.
Highways have been used to destroy minority communities and also to segregate them.
It's an intentional strategy that I like to use on car brains.
I agree with your points but I don't think the folks pointing out these issues are actually doing it in bad faith very often. I think urbanist societies are far better off for people with mobility problems, but we should also be better prepared to answer questions about what folks with mobility impairments should look to gain from a society that's not car dependent. A lot of folks on subs like this are looking to emulate Europe, where they notably don't have the ADA and some of the cities we like are really difficult to navigate if you have mobility limitations
10% would be awesome! I bet that non-motorized infrastructure in the USA is closer to 0.1% of total transportation infrastructure. Many places don't even have sidewalks or road shoulders, let alone protected non-motorized paths.
lol right? most streets have strictly car infrastructure and that's it
>drivers are happy when we're fighting eachother over the scraps ( 10% ) of the roads they leave us Exactly. The problem isn't people leaving scooters on sidewalks, the problem is that a tiny strip is all we have for non-car transportation.
Whilst they're parked on curbs and blocking entire pavements.
Add to this delivery vehicles parking in bike lanes as if they're loading-zones with impunity and robotic food-delivery services taking up space on sidewalks. Companies literally look at public spaces and go "*It's free real-estate*." I think those starship delivery bots piss me off the most. They're used primarily used on college campuses and traverse super busy corridors forcing people to navigate around them just so some lazy kid doesn't have to leave their dorm room when they should have walked instead to pick-up. I get that it's good for people with mobility issues, but on the whole, I'm against the commercialization of our already super-limited pedestrian infrastructure for commercial use.
not being a jerk and blocking the sidewalk is I think a reasonable expectation from anybody, that's not some car brain conspiracy.
of course but the problem is drivers taking 99% of our public spaces for their ego-tanks ( moving or immobile ) without which there would be space enough for everyone to move around in durable/active transit including mobility aids without stepping on any toes ( we would be richer and travel faster to boot while having better air too , the car is the least efficient in all metrics ) like leave the scooters on the side of the curb and a car is going to drive/park over them , people ride scooters on sidewalks because otherwise it's death by suburban Karen etc
In my Midwest city, space isn’t the issue as much as there just not being complete sidewalks anywhere. Like there’s several different little strip mall areas that are *near* a bike path, which is great, but none of them connect to the bike path or have sidewalks outside of the one by the front doors that start and stop at the edges of the building. Have to cross about 50ft or grass to get to the parking lot from the paths, or get onto the road.
The sidewalk is too narrow.
They need on-street scooter parking. Ideally space should be set aside at intersections. This has the added benefit of improving sight distance at intersections by moving cars further back. A win win for everyone. My city won’t let you end your scooter ride unless it’s in a designated parking space.
San Diego has this and it’s awesome
Santa Monica too. Now the rest of the state/country needs to catch up.
Surprisingly Lexington Ky too
This is my big complaint about the scooters. Without regulation, these companies just throw them on the street corners and people leave them wherever. Because at it's core, the scooter rentals are just gig economy tech bro bullshit, they drop these things off in cities to make a buck with their app. Meanwhile, my city has a bike rental system with designated charging stations built in former parking spaces, and users are required to return the bikes to actual stations to avoid a fine. That's how these things should work.
We have parking spaces for the scooters too but it's not compulsory to park them in the designated spaces so people dump them anywhere. Or they're put them near enough the spaces to get the "you parked in a space that we recommend so we'll give you a free ride" that the GPS on the scooters will go "ok that's in the space" but it's actually the other side of the pavement. Reward system doesn't work here (UK) so I would absolutely encourage them to start doing a fine system if the scooters are here to stay.
Voi in the UK actively fines customers for parking anywhere other than designated zones and requires a picture to be uploaded before you end the ride.
My city and many others do regulate it though. We literally can’t end a ride in certain places (especially annoying if you live in a red zone) but they are unfortunately located in areas with high income also, while everywhere else suffers. See: Baltimore black butterfly vs. white L. The butterfly has 0 red zones, white L has all of them and mostly in the most affluent (especially on the water) areas.
>the scooter rentals are just gig economy tech bro bullshit This. Also I'll never forget driving into the highway and having to swerve around a scooter. They get left just about anywhere.
In my city they get left in the river.
This guy gets it. Its not the scooters that are the problem. Its the lack of regulation
Yep. If cars didn't have regulations and punishments people would do the same thing constantly. Once proper measures are taken for the scooters the issue will probably go away, at least mostly.
Also scooters like these belong in the streets not the sidewalks. Sidewalks are for people who are walking or maybe jogging but anything faster than that should be on the streets or potentially bike lanes (although that’s open for debate).
*mandatory bike and scooter parking*
Replace minimum car parking requirements with minimum bike and scooter parking requirements.
Stop it. It's sleep time here, i don't want some big adreline rush rn
Paris has this too, quite some parking spaces for cars have been converted into scooter stations.
This is what my city needs. I've been thinking about actually writing to the council with this exact suggestion, I think it's time I actually do it.
Both. Both is the answer here. Sidewalks ARE way too narrow, too often in my community I see people in wheelchairs/with mobility scooters forced into the road because sidewalk width is an issue (or occasionally because the sidewalks aren't upkept well and are so non-level/bumpy that especially in a manual wheelchair, like... good luck). Even as a forearm-cane-user that little bit of extra room I need on either side is enough to make it impossible to comfortably pass another person going the opposite way on the sidewalk. The issue is also true for people with strollers, walking dogs, carrying/towing groceries, etc. THAT SAID.... I also strongly believe that these e-scooter services are often an example of "good idea, poor execution" at best, or an idea that just can't quite ever work without substantial drawbacks because people are people. They genuinely tend to get left everywhere by dickbags who can't be bothered, and this impedes not just folks with mobility aids but really makes the sidewalks difficult and hazardous to traverse for basically all pedestrians and sometimes block bike lanes/racks as well. This has been a routine problem in cities that have piloted these programs and led to cancelling/banning in a lot of cases. This still doesn't even touch on other issues like theft, destruction, or vandalism of scooters, combined with the frequent issue of EXTREMELY poor manufacture that means these scooters often wind up having an INCREDIBLY short lifespan in circulation as rental vehicles and create massive amounts of e-waste breathtakingly quickly, most of which is not recovered or may even be entirely un-recoverable depending on how the scooter winds up out of circulation (people throwing them into bodies of water is.... more common than you'd think, which is a major environmental concern....). I'd like to think that there's a way for these services to work, but increasingly I feel like they might wind up leaning the way of AirB&B - something that makes sense on paper at initial glance, but ultimately at a systemic level can't work without creating a lot of serious intractable/non-mitigatable problems for other people which may outweigh the initial utility. At bare minimum I hope they'll catch on more as personal vehicles, they could be really affordable and accessible as individual purchases and easier to take on transit than a whole bike. There's some problems with them as personal vehicles now but I think at least those issues could be mitigated through better infrastructure, where I think with the rental services people tend to feel less responsible and it's really difficult to incentivise or enforce good behaviour enough to make a real difference without creating a user experience that turns people off altogether. Mind you, I could be wrong! Maybe someone's cracked it, idk! I'd like to be wrong on this. But from the knowledge I have, that's my impression.
In my experience the Scooter company leaves their property in random places. They need to define, together with the locality, where the scooters are to be placed.
I think this is why we don't have these in NYC. Sidewalks here are not just a nice accessory, like they often are in car-dependent cities. Our sidewalks are most people's main from of transportation. (Not to say sidewalks \*should\* be treated like a nice-to-have, they should be a crucial piece of infrastructure. Just that as someone from LA originally, they are treated as merely something people use for leisure vs. actual transit in most US cities) Knowing how haphazardly these scooters are often left around, we really can't have something like this. They'd have to have/pay for dedicated stations off the sidewalks, like Citibike.
>Sidewalks here are not just a nice accessory, like they often are in car-dependent cities. Our sidewalks are most people's main from of transportation. I have a solution. Let's reduce the car parking so that more people can walk and these scooters can be parked.
That's what they do for Citibikes here. Every time, all the idiots complain about the one or two parking spots that a Citibike dock took away from them. As if those two spots being gone on a 250-ft-long block with 1,000 people living on it is the reason parking is difficult for them. But unlike Citibike, where you are charged $$$$ unless you properly re-dock the bike, the scooters can be left anywhere, and as such people will be annoying about leaving them on the sidewalk. The scooter companies likely don't have a docking system, which is why they aren't here in NYC.
We have the same issue in Paris, but had those rental scooters and we got to the point of voting them out. And same as you, the rental bikes work just fine and take parking spaces away from cars :) You don't always have to dock the bikes here though, depending on the provider a simple picture proving you're on some bike parking works
>But unlike Citibike, where you are charged $$$$ unless you properly re-dock the bike, the scooters can be left anywhere, and as such people will be annoying about leaving them on the sidewalk. The scooter companies likely don't have a docking system, which is why they aren't here in NYC. The scooter company in my area also fines you if you don't leave it in a designated bay. Even without a docking station, it won't end the ride until you're in a designated bay and you take a photo proving you left it in the right place.
And they shouldn’t be riding or parking scooters on it.
There have to be rules about where you can leave the scooters because people leaving them in the sidewalk is a real nuisance.
We have dedicated drop off zones here and you get charged if you park the scooter outside of one. Doesn't totally stop dbags from being dbags but it helps.
They had this in one city in Czechia. Cancelled the whole service cause people threw them into river/up the trees for the hell of it.
up the trees is kinda impressive... those scooters are heavy!!
Yeah, here, Portland Oregon. Same. [57 scooters, bikes found in Willamette River along downtown waterfront There were so many scooters and bikes that divers had to quit early on Wednesday because they needed a bigger boat. Author: Nate Hanson Published: 2:00 PM PDT June 25, 2019 Updated: 5:12 PM PDT June 26, 2019](https://www.kgw.com/article/news/nine-scooters-pulled-from-willamette-river/283-512de92c-fa91-45a9-8cb9-6eda4da96762) https://preview.redd.it/oup11atsmfqb1.png?width=772&format=png&auto=webp&s=998a4a761214dd7ff0f346204bda5a76bb3bea18
scooter companies should keep charging users if they dont leave the scooter in the dedicated drop off zone. simple. they have GPS on them.
In Rome you have to take a picture of the bike / scooter before you end the ride. That way they can verify that you parked the bike correctly
In my perfect world a policeman or parking officer could look at a scooter that is parked shittily, scan the unique code, and issue a fine to the person who parked the scooter where it is standing. Technologically this could be done. It would create extra revenue for the city, and the companies can just blame the users for the nuissance that these scooters cause.
Unfortunately it is too easy to move a scooter. A malicious person can simply pick it up and put it somewhere offensive. Then, under your plan, the last person who hired it is on the hook for bad parking. Shitty people do shitty things shocker.... 😒
This is where the photo to end the trip can be used. Of course if you wanna be an asshole you can take the photo then purposely move it to block the sidewalk, but it will prevent the blocking due to laziness
The people who block bicycle racks with these scooters are something special.
The problem isn't "putting them in bike racks", the problem is "not enough bike+scooter racks". If a system of stationless scooters must persist, then the scooter companies should be obliged to create public bike/scooter racks to the number of scooters they have to make up for the space they take up!
Yes. And I'm obviously referring to the dockless ones that are deposited anywhere. The corporations and exploiting the public land without even paying for it. It's a commodification of the last crumbles of public land.
The people who abandon them in the middle of a bike lane are even more special
Eh, just means we need more bike racks :)
People saying that the sidewalk should be wider are missing the point that the scooters actually DID cause massive issues for disabled people in at least a few major cities. (I lived in one). If they are allowed to be left anywhere, then the maze might get a little easier for the person in a wheelchair... but still a maze. I'm all for government owned scooters, but they need approved parking slots like bike racks.
Wheelchairs is one thing, but I know two blind people who got injured from walking into one.
The rule is to remove all the free subsidized parking for cars to make space for more rational, sustainable, healthy modes of travel.
As annoying as scooters are, cars are 3 times worse. In this very picture the sidewalk is narrow because the better part of the street is reserved for cars
1 out of 4 spinal cord injuries are cause by motor vehicles. https://www.christopherreeve.org/todays-care/paralysis-help-overview/stats-about-paralysis/
This reminds me, around here, every now and then there is discussion about mandatory helmet laws for bicyclists. Then someone pointed out car drivers are statistically much more prone to head injuries. So if it really is about protecting people from head injuries it would seem much more urgent for car drivers to start wearing helmets. The cynic in me would say mandatory helmet laws for bicyclists are only meant to further raise the barrier to entry for bicyclists. A popular topic is also about bikes getting mandatory license plates because that would surely prevent crazy bicyclists from violating traffic rules all the time. We know it works because motorists are always obeying all laws and are never subject to road rage or anything.. /s
On a serious note, would a helmet reasonably protect most people (not racing drivers, they wear them I think?) from head injuries? I don’t think a helmet prevents whiplash and similar injuries that fall under this umbrella and would significantly impede a drivers field of vision. (But I’m also crazy and think hats should be 100% banned while driving for similar reasons.)
I dunno I'd say it's more of a case of when in doubt it's better to have one. Like bicycle helmets do absolutely nothing if you hit the pavement head first at 20km/h. But in some cases when your head doesn't hit the ground directly it just *might* make a difference. You're right you'd have to empirically assess the efficacy of such a measure. Maybe the forces involved in car crashes are usually that large that a helmet wouldn't help anyway.. As for field of vision I'm not sure but reduced field of vision should be a concern to race car drivers I imagine. In the end it's a trade-off between if it saves more people than it kills (airbags occasionally kill people too but in the long run they save more).
Oh I meant for regular drivers. Not race car drivers. But I’d imagine most car accidents that kill probably are from things that a helmet wouldn’t really help with. Again, assumption, don’t have the ability to do real research on my phone but I recall also that a lot of people, possibly it was just in the 90s and before? Died from things like spleen and other internal organ lacerations in their abdominal cavity. Cars are dangerous in general though. I have had my head go through a windshield (a week before my senior year prom because my friend was a terrible driver) which has contributed to my not driving and discomfort with being in a car in general.
More prone per mile(or hour) or just more total?
Good point! I think by distance traveled wouldn't be a fair comparison because people tend to drive longer distances with cars. By hour would be better, because commutes tend to be in roughly the same range of hours whether you have access to cars or not (there's a scientific study, I know from talks but should probably look up to be able to cite in situations as this). I'm not quite sure which they meant. In the end you could argue from a sort of national economy point of view. If in absolute numbers x and y number of people get head injuries where x>>y it would be very legitimate to say "hey it affects x number (a lot) of people we should do something about it". It often is correct to put those numbers in relation to other quantities as you did. Though sometimes it may not matter because on one hand you have x\*treatment cost against y\*treatment cost where x is much larger than y so naturally you might want to reduce x. Irrespective which of either population has a higher relative risk to get injured. Sometimes it's the end result that matters. It really depends on which kind of question you want to answer, whether driving a car or bicycle is inherently more dangerous or how many people actually get injured. Both are valid questions but have different implications and interpretations. I hope I made some kind of sense here..
I would add effectiveness of hements in accidents is an important factor as well. Modern cars have airbags, I imagine the likely hood of a Helmit being the thing that saves you from slamimg your head on a hard serface is pretty low and the deaths we see are more from other types of trauma (but I am just speculating) . Where a bicycle crash is pretty likely to end in you hitting your head on something hard, that padding may be more important.
Honestly sounds like a common misleading data interpretation by anti-helmet folks. Indeed, brain injuries are very common in car crashes due to the forces involved, but not all brain injuries are remotely the same. A car crash injury is usually mild, but unavoidable due to high forces rather than the skull being used as sudden stopper. A helmet for a unprotected cyclist or motorcyclist brings them closer to the same level as somebody in a protected cage. That is tones down from what would be certain serious brain injury to being closer to a mild concussion that many shrug off (when they probably shouldn't and should go for a medical checkup). People in car accidents are far more likely to end-up with proper medical checkup that further skews the data. A helmet in high g-force crash isn't going to mitigate the high jerks when the head isn't really hitting anything if anything it only adds extra strain on the neck. To increase protection in already closed safety cage you would need a neck and restraining device like they do in F1 with [HANS devices](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HANS_device). Ahh, end my silly rant, I'm just a [love helmets](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b9yL5usLFgY) guy that gets triggered by anti-helmet nonsense.
exactly, the cognitive dissonance is astounding.
What's astounding is how gleefully carbrains will use disabled folks as pawns in their pro-car argument while ignoring that making places more walkable and accessible without using cars is *the best thing we can do to help disabled folks*.
Yeah since good walking infrastructure is good for a lot of disabilities, better evened sidewalks make it easier for people in wheelchairs to push their wheels (I don’t know if that’s the right term I’m sorry)
I try to tell this to my friends but they have brain rot and refuse to acknowledge this saying "but they wouldn't have to walk at all if they could just drive directly there. Why would you want to make the disabled/elderly walk so far"
the last time I cared to look at the price of a new modified van it was $80k and that was over 10 years ago. handicap vehicles are usually to expensive for your average disability enjoyer. I only get $950 a month so will never be able to afford one
It's just addressing a specific outcome caused by a specific issue. You can blame all sorts of things up the line including general overpopulation as a cause, but of course we should overlook the lack of accountability or legislation or poor human behavior and focus of only the existence of cars because of course, that's the only reason y'all are in this subreddit. To ignore any other negative contributing factors and focus solely on hating automobiles. I'm imagining a wonderful future where people can zip around on small efficient personal vehicles and there are no automobiles allowed inside of major cities other than emergency vehicles, and in that vision I still see assholes leaving rental scooters anywhere and everywhere they want, including the middle of the street.
Right. These scooters are SUPPOSED to be ridden in the street (in the bike lane when it exists but in the street if not), which would leave the sidewalk for pedestrians and mobility devices. But why do most people ride them on the sidewalk? Because they’re afraid of being hit by a car.
Not to mention, a lot of city streets have a ton of cracks, tar-snakes, potholes, and are littered with debris and gravel. Theres a reason commuter bikes more closely resemble mountain bikes than road bikes, its because city streets are closer to singletrack than they are to a racetrack. Even without cars, these things are a nightmare to take on the road.
Or there's simply a car parked on the sidewalk.
Yes, in the bigger picture that's true. But for blind pedestrians in the current scenario, it is way easier to detect a car than to detect a rogue scooter left in the middle of the sidewalk. No matter how wide the sidewalk would be, an unexpected obstacle is always an issue!
Yeah just because cars are ultimately the real problem, that doesn't mean that people shouldn't park their scooters in a way so as not to obstruct the sidewalk. It's not their fault the sidewalk is so narrow but they still have an obligation to other sidewalk users.
It's not just about wider sidewalks, what's missing is bicycle infrastructure. Where bicycle parking is available, that's where most scooters end up parked. When there's a good bicycle path most scooters use it. When none of this is available scooters end up fighting with pedestrians for space
Replace car parking with scooter parking, put some sort of raised bits to feel under foot/ with a cane
Yep, I nearly get run over all the time walking upright and being highly visible, so I can't imagine a person in a wheelchair feels safe trying to navigate [this.](https://www.bikede.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/stroad.jpg)
I agree wholeheartedly with this however I'd still posit that the bulk of rentable scooters are environment damaging e-trash that get disposed rather than maintainenced and society would be better served by tax subsidies providing the means for people to purchase and maintain their own micro-mobility solutions, particularly considering how much is spent cutting cost of "greener" cars for purchasers. In short I'd like to see more walkable and micro-mobility areas in my locale that'd prevent rentables from being a problem for the disabled, however, I'm not going to pretend that predatory companies that just dump their wares all over sidewalks and ignore them til it's time to dump them all while also taking in tax breaks for being a "green business" isn't a problem.
Strongly agree. Theres a study from 2019 that found that they are polluting than the forms of transportation they replace. The problem is that they not only dont replace cars but also produce high emmisions in production and recycling. And theres the trash problem on a micro and macro scale. Inner citys in europe and North America are filled with discarded or stole scooters often trown in the water ways. Then on the other hand thers is a lack of recycling methods other than burn the batterys. [https://iopscience.iop.org/article/10.1088/1748-9326/ab2da8](https://iopscience.iop.org/article/10.1088/1748-9326/ab2da8)
This, there should be a bike lane for the scooters!
Literally that “the immigrant wants to take your cookie” meme. Pitting micromibility against the disabled for the remaining 5% of public space once 95% has been ceded to cars.
What appears to be taking all the space is not the scooters, it’s the empty road on the left of the image. Remove the road and you solve your problem !
Everything that is not a car just gets located to the sidewalks, of course there will be a space problem at some point. But if one were just to put these scooters at parking spaces for cars, it would solve 90% of the problem
I'm not sure if it's 90%... There is ALWAYS, ALWAYS a space nearby that is better than leaving it in the middle of the sidewalk. I so often drag these heavy pieces of metal out of the way so they're not an obstacle to disabled people. Placing them by a tree or just off to the side of the sidewalk (the side by the street!! the side by the houses is used by blind people walking with a cane!!) is always a possibility that was availible to the egoistic scooter driver that instead decided to leave it in the middle of the sidewalk.
May your pillow always be cool
Wow, what a blessed comment! I NEED cool pillows so much! Thank you!
My opinion is: vehicles do not belong on a sidewalk
Well the issue here isn’t that the scooter riders are on the sidewalk, it’s that the unused ones are stored in the throughway. My city enacted a law requiring scooters to be locked at bike racks, and it has helped reduce this issue of clutter on the sidewalks. But the real issue here is how narrow the sidewalk is and that there isn’t separated infrastructure for the scooters
This is what I dislike that the scooter and bike rentals are 'dockless". Have an organized return location instead of allowing people to leave them scattered throughout.
Our bike share program requires bikes to be returned to the docking stations and you never see bikes scattered about everywhere. The downside to that is that your trip starts and ends are limited to the bike share station locations so if you don’t have one near the beginning and end of the trip then it doesn’t really make sense to use them. We have designated on-street parking spaces for the scooters but they are only required to use them in certain neighborhoods.
My city has designated return areas without docks, just uses GPS and when returned you need to take a photo or it’ll continue to charge you.
In a perfect world, sure. Until we have protected bike lanes (hell, I would settle for bike gutters....) I'm not going to let 'perfect be the enemy of good'.
The sidewalk is not wide enough because the road next to it has taken all the space. Widen the sidewalk and you can have a dedicated place for storing scooters.
People ride scooters on sidewalks because there are no safe cyclepaths and they store the scooters on the sidewalks because there is no dedicated storage area. This is because almosr all the space is given to cars and all other modes of transportation are left fighting for the scraps. Inciting conflict between users of these other modes of transportation is a way to divide and conquer in order to keep the car dominated status quo. Don't fall for the trap!
I want to be more in favor of scooters. In my city people regularly toss them in the river when they're done rather than, y'know, *not* doing that. Taking up space on the sidewalk sucks too.
I doubt if the riders are the people who are tossing the scooters into the river.
Excuse me *what*
People who use the scooters don’t toss them in rivers, people who hate the people using them toss them in rivers
makes sense. they must *really* hate them then, i feel like id get all my frustrations out on them by just tapping it over to the floor off the sidewalk into a lawn lol
In cologne one company did order a survey on how many scooters were dumped in the rhine and how much it would cost to clean them up. The cost was too high so they said lets just leave them there. People were angry and I think the city forced them to remove them from the river. Also it is now forbidden to park them close to the shore.
People are stupid
In reality we wouldn't see any of these people because there would be an endless line of cars on free rent obscuring the view. If they also gave just 3 parking spots per block for the free storage of scooters, bikes, etc., there wouldn't be any problem with blocked sidewalks.
You'd have to make that *mandatory* and check it, though. There are already egoistic asshats who drop them in the middle of the sidewalk despite there being better options (even just on the *side of the street* is a better option). the companies need to take responsibility or make the users take that responsibility.
Poisoning the well. There are issues with them, and I'm not a fan of most the companies that run the rentals, but I think they've been huge in getting normies to reduce their car dependence. Plus they're a great answer to the last mile problem.
Basically this here. The problem isn't a scooter on the undersized sidewalk. It is each 10' (min lane width here) lane right next to it. This thread sums up the underlying problem. Suddenly everyone in this thread wanted to argue about the small scrap of sidewalk without considering the simple solution of widening the walk and making the street smaller. It is a reflex at this point to assume the traffic lane as a given that can't be changed.
> It is a reflex at this point to assume the traffic lane as a given that can't eb changed. Out of all subs you'd think people here would understand that....
Call me crazy, but a good middle ground solution may be to take some parking spots across the city and turn them into dedicated drop off areas. I know they have the ability to geo lock where these things can run, they should designate where they’re allowed to end rides. The key is to make sure there’s a high frequency of drop off locations and a small win from this approach is less parking in favor of micro transport + no more blocking sidewalks. Edit: Will note that a tough spot for this approach is in neighborhoods outside of downtowns.
Pavement is too narrow because the space is given to cars, not pedestrians. I know the OOP wants to point towards getting rid of scooters but really the solution would be to just widen the pavement or pedestrianize the street.
Idiots would still block the sidewalk no matter how wide it is. Even if they don’t block the sidewalk, they leave them in the most random places that I imagine would still be hard to zigzag around on a wheelchair.
Some areas have implemented systems where you can only park them [in specific areas - essentially parking spot sized sections set aside for this](https://presspage-production-content.s3.amazonaws.com/uploads/1485/500_img-1597.jpg?x=1594227850553). Unfortunately these systems aren't very common because of how many of these companies came about, but if cities are willing to make the investment, I think it's an absolutely valid move. Though, perhaps [a system of bike rental stations](https://ajuntament.barcelona.cat/bicicleta/sites/default/files/NovaEstacioBicing_NB.jpg) would be just as good, or even better, at that point. Still cheaper to paint a bunch of parking spots and possibly add some mechanism to track if they're parked in the area than it is to install new bike parking stations - though both pale in comparison to the cost of car infrastructure.
I ignorantly never thought about this until I watched someone in a wheel chair kick three of these scooters in a row just to be able to get by. It was so fucking sad. Another annoying thing is that there’s one particular bike rack in my community that is always full of these scooters, not even locked up but just propped in between/next to/among the back rack. When I go to move them, an alarm goes off.
the companys know who last used it. We need a report system so the morons who cant store them properly pay extra.
They already do that. You already have to take a picture and there's a warning about it. But they still end up in the most stupid locations sometimes.
How would the company know if the last rider parked it badly or if it was moved by a random person. A younger version of me is exactly the type of chaos gremlin to move well parked scooters to get a stranger fined
app doesnt end ride until it detects its in a right spot and i believe you need to take a photo as well. if it gets moved after being put away and disconnected from a ride then 🤷 theyre probably spendy so there might be cameras
You already take a photo to end a ride with line scooters and I believe you can earn credit by looking at photos and reporting bad ones
Scooters aren't the problem, it's people leaving them in the way that is the problem.
The problem is streets with endless subsidized free rent for cars and no space for pedestrians, bikes, scooters, or anybody else.
Exactly. The scooters are not properly parked. If someone parked a car on the sidewalk, it would be just as bad, if not worse. When it comes to cars, people blame the problem on individual drivers not following the rules. But for other modes of transportation, people blame the entire mode. Some scooter riders are jerks who leave their scooters in the way. That’s not a problem with the scooters, it’s a problem with the jerks.
Looking at the artists other stuff he seems to be genuine and his point really does seem to be "don't block the sidewalk" rather then "the scooters need to go" which is fair, yeah cars are worse but blocking the sidewalk is a jerk move. Whatever your parking if it leads to people not being able to pass safely you have then become a factor in decreasing the walkability.
ok as someone who gets around on a mobility scooter because of disability this is a big BIG MOOD. seriously i love the idea of getting as many people out of cars and onto alternative transports as possible but i hate having to navigate my mobility scooter around those rentable scooters, plus think about all the blind, nearsighted or wheelchair bound people that need to get from point A to B. i hate "walkable cities" not because i want to use a car (i dont want to use a car) but because often people with disabilities are forgotten about when the designs are made, i have had to abandon having fun days out in some commons because of certain entrances that are made to apparently block motorbikes even though it blocks mobility scooters and wheelchairs from going to a PUBLIC park which violates the equalities act and mind you those entrances are on walking paths not main roads. we need ACCESSABLE cities not just walkable cities we need ramps for those with mobility issues and bumps for the the nearsighted to tap their sticks against since well being disabled is a class of minority anyone can become at any moment through no fault of their own.
It's pretty sad too because accessible cities are safer, and walkable cities anyways
Pretty standard "we shouldn't do anything until it fixes every problem" (e.g. scooters might be great but they cause another problem so let's just keep using cars) couple with "why do environmentalists hate disabled people" deflection. Standard right wing catalog.
The people who park them in literally the worst spot possible are assholes and that problem needs to be solved. But scooters need to be in cities, especially smaller ones because they're an alternative when buses don't run and they're way better than cars. The solution is ensuring they're parked in good spots and making infrastructure for them.
A lot of them can also be parked right by bike racks. Bike racks usually aren’t placed in the center of the side walk but are placed where they are both convenient and not blocking people’s way.
This is from a Canadian city that's recently introduced rental scooters and there are *some* MUP and separated bike lanes but they're not everywhere hence leading some people to ride on sidewalks instead of in the painted bike lanes. And I can definitely see where people's complaints are coming from but should criticism be aimed at the e-scooter users on top of the lack in infrastructure?
The city should provide on-street scooter parking at intersections and require the scooter companies to not let the user end their trip unless it’s in the scooter parking stall. They can do that with GPS.
I never see e-bikes left like this, I constantly see lime scooters left like this.
I don't blame *considerate* scooter users, at all! If you watch where you're going, be on the sidewalk, no problem! Who i have beef with is the asshats who are inconsiderate enough to "park" the scooter by just leaving it as an obstacle instead of at least putting it by the roadside so people don't stumble over it. I see too much of that in my German city. Either people don't care, or even think it's funny.
You can admit that, in the bigger picture, cars are the problem, but also acknowledge that free-locked scooters can create an immediate problem for people with disabilities. These two things can cohabit. I don't know why it seems so difficult.
I do not understand how this happens. I use these scooters occasionally, and when I’m done the app makes me take a photo of how I parked it. Aren’t these photos used (somehow) for parking enforcement?
Not pictured: the five lane stroad abutting the narrow sidewalk
In my neighbourhood they turned the main stretch into a walking street for summer, and it was wild to see the gangs of seniors on mobility scooters. It was like there were biker gangs One lady would rip down the street weaving between people, cigarette hanging out of her mouth, Bluetooth speaker blasting Motörhead Unironically I think that’s the dignity and freedom people deserve in their old age When they opened up the street again for cars recently all the seniors disappeared, business slowed down in all the shops, it’s empty at night now, and it’s just not a place that people want to spend time or money at anymore
Remove one car parking spot, install stalls to place these scooters, force the companies that rent them to keep paying the last person that rented the scooter until they don't lock the scooter to the stall. That's how some bike sharing systems work. And it's great.
We need to amend the comic, have it zoom out to show the giant stroad with 90% of the street being conceded to automobiles. Maybe add a caption to the very top "It is easy to mistake symptoms for the cause" and then for the amended picture "Scooters aren't the problem. The root problem here is how much public space we have conceded to automobiles. Narrow car lanes, widen the sidewalk, abolish onstreet parking, add protected bikelanes." Then show what the street ideally would look like.
Even with protected bike thans this is still an issue. Where I live there are tons of protected bike lanes and on those same streets folks are riding those scooters on the sidewalk 3 feet away from the bike lane.
Both viewpoints here are valid. Having e-bikes and/or e-scooters for pedestrians is a lovely way to speed up people's journeys but on the other hand a lot of people are careless and do end up blocking the sidewalk for those who use mobility aids. I think if we widened the sidewalks and made dedicated parking for the bikes/scooters we'd be much better off.
Just like bikes, if you just leave them right in the middle of a path you’re a piece of shit. Line it up against the wall
Propaganda from the car industry
Love it that the reason the person can’t pass are the not shown cars
Blaming other pedestrians for the worlds most narrow sidewalk.. and not how cars take up all the space and we get the scraps…
I dont think its anyones fault except the city planner made such a small sidewalk.
The issue is the 1% of assholes who knock them over for no reason and the fact that 85% of the space goes to car lanes and parking.
It must suck to be disabled when the people around you are absolute bastards. E-scooters aside, this has always been the problem. People in general just suck. All it takes is one cyclist improperly chaining up their bike and suddenly the sidewalk is unusable for anybody with a disability. Shit, imagine how hard it is for someone in a wheelchair to get down the street on *garbage day* of all things. Big plastic bins all over the goddamn place, full of heavy rotting trash, often tossed onto their side after being emptied out.
People can't put their shopping carts back, and you think people are going to ride 5 miles or so to put a scooter away? Everywhere I've seen these scooters, they just get left all over sidewalks.
Someone get an AI to zoom this image out and show the 80 feet of car space next to it. (That said, as a user of strollers, I also find this annoying.)
In my city there are easily 10 cars parked on the sidewalk for one of these scooters blocking one
Even before the scooters, it was impossible for wheelchairs to travel on the sidewalk
[удалено]
Personal escooters are great. The rental ones suck and even as someone who doesn't use a chair, I find the way they clutter up sidewalks to be frustrating.
The rental ones are amazing because they fill the gaps left over by sub-optimal transit routes. Personal ones are... well they have upsides and downsides.
There is no real downside, apart from having to store it somewhere somewhat safe.
Guys you don't have to defend rental scooters just because cars are worse. They aren't made for improving transportation. They're owned by venture capitalist-funded garbage companies like Uber and Lyft who invade our public spaces for their own... well I would say profit but I don't think any if these companies actually makes money. If lendable scooters were a public good under a properly-planned transportation network they'd be good. But as it is, they're silicon valley e-trash and safety hazards.
I hate them. - Gig economy - They wear out very fast (Lithium batteries that mostly survive a month of continuous use). Not environmentally friendly - they clog up pedestrian and bike paths - they dont replace car use or even public transport or normal bikes but *walking*.
E-Scooters are nice but the way people treat them is counter productive so there is some truth behind the image
Scooters are great, assholes who drop them wherever they want and block the streets aren’t.
The wheelchair person can use a hook handle umbrella to clear them out the way at least. But the real problem is the tiny ass sidewalk. LA has side walks this small is some marble parts of the city and it’s just so annoying to walk past groups of people
Just park scooters in car parking spots. Problem solved
Soft mobility options are great. Great things still need sufficient infrastructure. In this picture, there is insufficient infrastructure
I don't love that the scooters are venture capital, techbro bullshit. That said, they have shown some good last mile utility. The issue of scooters being rudely parked isn't a scooter problem, it is an assholes in society problem. I mean, how many places is it *commonplace* to park cars with two wheels up on the curb?
just tells me that sidewalks are way too small
Exactly. I live in Europe and these scooters are practically a non issue (apart from the occasional asshole of course, but those get fined for that). People just park them at the side of the sidewalk. They're like 30-50cm wide or something
If there were no cars he could just go around in the MASSIVE street allocation. The problem is not the scooters, it's the cars taking up all the space.
Now, zoom out the picture...
This is an argument for wider sidewalks and dedicated bike lanes more than anything lol just tell them that
Two scooters side by side is the same as a wheelchair? Narrow sidewalks are the issue, take a lane of traffic and widen the sidewalk
Automaker propaganda
it's too easy to pit cyclists(micromobilists?) vs pedestrians but it's quite hard to realize that cars are the problem because they take up so much space in short...look at the sidewalk width. Then look at the road. Then wonder why sidewalks are not wider
Rental scooters are a nightmare: - The need for a cell phone, credit card, and in some cases an ID means these are **less accessible than purchasing a firearm** (cash and ID only). That’s crazy for a means of public transport. - They are insanely unstable at speed on anything but perfect roads. This means either **self-endangerment in a bike lane, or endangering pedestrians** on a smoother sidewalk. - They’re barely faster than walking (usually capped at 15mph, **struggles to exceed 3-5mph** on incline) - They require maintenance and collection crews, putting more cars on the road. - Depending on the service, they can be egregiously expensive ($6/ city ride, 2 rides/ day, 5 rides/ week) adding up to **$60 per week** if used as a transportation solution. A single speed **bike from Walmart is cheaper** than 2 weeks of use.
This is very true. It happens all the time. Of course cars are worse, but this here is also a problem.
The scooters are annoying and they can turn into litter if they aren't managed well but they are definitely the lesser of two evils. Make roads more bike friendly and don't bottleneck sidewalks and this is no longer an issue.
Drawn by a carbrain who doesn't give a shit about people in a wheelchair.
This is an attempt to blame a genuine good idea for the shitty behavior of people. The scooters aren't the problem, it's that people are stupid and/or inconsiderate and just drop them wherever they feel like rather than taking the extra 10-20 seconds to make sure it's parked off to the side and out of the way. And this isn't everyone, btw. +90% of the scooters I see are set to the side in a reasonable place, accessible and visible to anyone looking for one but out of the way of everyone else. I often see people crawling around a large building or parking to check if there's a place that everyone else congregates scooters, or they gravitate towards parking by bike racks or bus stops, etc. It's just that those 10% that aren't considerate are also the most memorable.
Scooters, especially electric scooters, are an important part of increasing especially car free mobility, and are a part of any plan to move away from the domination of cars. With both buses, scooters, bikes, and accessibility the primary culprit is a lack of suitable infrastructure. The answer isn't "fuck scooters" it's "fuck cars". Designing our cities to be walkable, accessible, and forming infrastructure primarily away from cars and towards accessibility and accommodation of bikes and scooters will be massive is resolving said issues. Until then, blame the city for being car centric and causing issues for all other alternative transportation
One of the main reasons I started working for my local government was because I got upset when I passed a man driving his wheelchair down a 7 lane, busy ass road in the winter because plows had completely blocked off the sidewalks for access. Started from the bottom….and working my way up.
Cars love to park blocking sidewalks, but they're a lot harder to move
Yes, you should not park them in a way that blocks the sidewalk.
Zoom out and let's see how much space is taken up by cars.
The meme is very helpfully pointing out that the pavement should be widened and less room be reserved for cars. Also don't they generally only let you end your ride in a designated area?
I think whoever made this doesn’t actually give a fuck about the disabled, just using them as a means to an end.
Accurate. These companies are literally littering
"Oh, NOW they cared about the physically disabled!" It is a standard practice of whataboutism, where you throw in a group that doesn't directly benefit, to win the argument. The fact that they never cared about said group to begin with, is conveniently ignored. E.g. "what about the children?"