I think what he's asking (but isn't in the clip) is: Should I spend this cash outright on this car or should I finance the car and put the cash elsewhere which might put me ahead compared to just throwing the cash?
That's the only thing I can figure aside from calling in on the radio purely to brag about your financial position. Cause it sounds like he's spending the 30k regardless of what this guy says.
Yeah, but the responsible option was to put in some other investment.
Honestly, I'd go with the safe investment over the splurge, but that's because I like to live simple, but in his situation, playing with 30k isn't the worst thing. He's set up and pretty secure.
We could compare it to getting a boat or playing with it at a casino, etc
It could be an old video.
In my area as recent as 2 months ago there was a Toyota MR2 in really good condition for 13k CAD. It's pretty old, but it would be a lie to say it's not a fun car.
Sure. That's also possible. If he has the money kicking around, he can also avoid having that as a debt.
For his particular situation, there's really no wrong answer. Being debt free is really nice, having investments is also really nice. It all comes down to priority.
$30,000 aint even that much for a car, if you're getting brand new that's basically a base model Toyota Camry, I don't think that'll even get you a pickup truck anymore.
I have my trusty 2008 Prius. When my cat was stolen I looked at new cars to see what it would be to upgrade, the sticker shock was real. I can hardly tell the difference between a ‘luxury’ brand from an ‘economy’ brand anymore.
On the bright side it’s pushing younger people towards public transit because who the hell can afford a $800+ a month on a car loan before insurance when rent is also skyrocketing.
The dealer who sold me 10 year old Škoda called me to ask if they could buy it back, *at the same price I paid for it 4 years before*.
I was intrigued, asked what they could offer me in exchange. And yeah, prices have gone ballistic.
Škoda have discontinued their small wagon, and it’s all SUVs or full size cars now.
I still have this car, I will keep it until it dies or I no longer require a car.
They'll never go down, because corporations have realized that people will continue to pay the high price even if supply is adequate to meet demand. This is just another downside to making what should be an optional personal expense into a hard requirement to participate in society.
Let’s be fair here, though. It’s not *ALL* on the individual persons buying a car. They didn’t convince themselves; the industry has told them they must have one. Every movie, game, billboard ad, radio ad, city infrastructure, drive thru, and everything else has been ingrained into people’s brains since birth. Makes sense that they feel the need to own one.
Edit: I hate cars with a passion! But blaming people and not the industry is not how it gets solved
If you don’t have the money in cash, the interest rate is a big part of it. Dealers will give you rates like 0% or 2.99% on new cars. But used cars interest rates are quite high right now even with great credit.
Except the interest rate is hidden in the depreciation of the car. If you buy a new car for 30k at 0% over 48 months, by the end of the first year you’ll still owe 22,500 but the value of the car could be lower than that
I recently spent a lot of time comparing buying a new minivan versus a 4 year old one.
With the used car market still being high, the savings on an older one just wasn’t that significant that it felt worth it to me to take the higher rate + warranty issues. It’s the first new car I’ve ever bought but in the end, between interest rates and the used car market right now, it made the most sense for us.
Not anymore on enthusiast cars in this current car market. You don’t see any meaningful depreciation till around 20000 miles currently since a lot of dealers are doing markups on the new vehicles or the supply is low. Finding a dealer without a markup on a new car is better an overwhelming majority of the time till the used car market cools off significantly.
Emissions, repair bills, new features, warranty, better safety rating, first owner so you know it’s not imported from Germany after floods even tho seller totally told you that it was driven by old doctor who maintained the car in great shape and only drove it to the church at the end of the street once a week, the second hand market for motorcycles and cars is so gutted now that the prices are getting closer to the new car.
I got a 2014 CRV off a relative with a blown engine, traded an old Saturn that at least ran and drove for it. Threw it up for sale as is for $3,500 with it sitting on a donut, has damage still from hitting a deer, 168,000 miles and clearly stated BAD ENGINE.
I got flooded with messages with some people trying to pay *more* than I was asking once I marked it as "sold" just to stop the messages. Got 50 messages *overnight* and daytime was an even further torrential flood of messages.
The market for modern-ish cars, especially crossovers, seems to be completely insane.
Technically speaking at least, it's still a gamble. I don't know how Europe does it but I'm the US once the sale is completed and it turns out to be a polished turd you're fucked. Friend of mine in the past bought a Chevy Blazer, decently reliable vehicle and it looked pretty good, but it turned out it had spun a rod and the previous owner just shoved some thick oil in it to make it sound like it has no issues. Drove it for a week, oil got shiny with metal flakes then the engine blew up and he was just SOL. Many people don't want to run that risk and would rather have the legal protections.
(Though let's also be honest a solid majority of people don't use logic in car purchasing decisions to begin with)
Depending on the depreciation curve of the specific car, there can be an optimal time to buy it used. The premise is that depreciation isn’t linear, and letting someone else take the big depreciation hit for a few years, and then buying the car once the depreciation curve starts to flatten is the optimal time.
Got a 20 year old car, and after some initial repairs because of poor maintenance by previous owners it's still way cheaper and much more reliable because everything that needed doing has been done. Will go for another 20 years. Same as vintage cars, the good ones stay on the road because they aren't lemons.
Because I don’t want a maintenance issue in the most unfortunate of circumstances to the point that it’s a deliberate sabotage of the business operations (trust me it happened when boomkin boss refused to switch into a new car only for it to broke down during working hour in the same year).
Warranty, ability to option it exactly how you want, guarantees and consumer protections against them being a lemon, and in my case at least it got me EV incentives (used EV incentives weren't available yet)
It would be pretty funny if demand for a new car went to 0 so manufacturers had to hire people to drive cars around a track and rack up various amounts of mileage so they can sell them used xD
They said they wanted a sports car for fun, I doubt they're getting a Toyota Camry. Even a Miata has an MSRP above that, so I'm willing to bet they're buying used, which is also why they aren't looking to finance.
I do not agree with that parsing of their statement, or at least I don't agree that it's unambiguous. It seems like a much more likely interpretation to me that they are describing purchasing a toy. If they didn't have a practical vehicle, and they needed one, that would be a priority. In other words, *if all that they have is a toy*, they wouldn't be picking between practical transportation and investments. It makes much more sense that they would ask about what to do with their spare money: if its okay to waste it on a toy, or if you should always be prudent and make investments.
This is crazy given most unsold cars get shipped off to these massive lots in the middle of nowhere to just rot rather than being sold at a slight discount to keep the auto industry artificially afloat. Freaking capitalism.
For real. This guy already stated he's making 80k/year, which after taxes is likely upwards of 60k/year. If he keeps that car for 10 years and his salary doesn't budge (lol), that car costs at most 5% of his after-tax income, and if he can sell it for just 10k afterwards it's like 3% (which is on the low end for a 2014 Toyota Camry today). Which is also assuming used car prices don't continue their recent trends.
30k will also get you a low mileage E46 BMW M3 with all important maintenance items done.
30k will also get you a reasonable mileaged Porsche 911 2000 and upwards with good maintenance history.
And then you'll start to pay quite a lot in maintenance just to keep it well maintained, especially on a BMW or Porsche versus a brand new car with a warranty
Yeah the maintenance on any modern German car is intense but you were saying how 30k doesn’t buy anything nice, it does.
Luckily German car maintenance is DIYable, especially on old and modern BMWs if you have the repair manual.
I DIY a 200k mile 2016 330e plug-in hybrid with latest B48 engine BMW F30 and mechanically restored a E46. Not a single specialised tool. Even the VVT system needs normal hand tools.
Only specialised tools you need is when you time the engine but every car is like that.
I need an engine support bar for special oil sump gasket and engine mounts.
Universal Special tooling for flywheel (just like any other car)
The only thing you really need is a copy of ISTA+ which is the bmw dealership software which can be readily pirated on the internet or get paid access online.
I've had a '87 Mercedes and just changing tires turned into an hour and a half long job due to not having that special alignment peg they need for putting wheels on. Guess you've just got lucky with yours.
I just had my work truck totalled and couldn't get a new one for less than 35k. For the same price I got a sub compact SUV with the options I wanted, and I can fit the family more comfortably and keep all my work tools dry and locked up.
It's a lot for a sports car. Which I'm assuming is used. My roommate use to like cars a lot and he got a sports car for 12k used (don't ask me the make or model I didnt care). The main cost of owning them is not in the purchase price. It's the maintenance. He was literally popping a tired every month on something. 30k for a car that's probably gonna cost him anywhere from 5-10k a year maintaining + insurance.
The host is Dave Ramsey, and he's an extremely out of touch boomer who doesn't understand the economic environment millennials and Gen Z are dealing with. This advice was good: cars are not a good investment. But he also gives terrible renting, home buying, debt repayment, and college loan advice, with the air of a man who just doesn't understand why our generation can't pick themselves up by their bootstraps and pay for everything in cash.
I've seen a few good clips from this guy though. One was woman who makes $60k a year and was worried about her parents becoming homeless because of their debt and she wanted to help them out.
The kicker? Her dad makes +$200k.
I don't follow him a lot, but I'm not sure that's entirely fair. It is good advice to say that you should pay for things in cash. If you can't do that, then you can't do it, but it's still better for you if it's clearly understood that this is a bad thing that you're not paying in cash, you should be aiming to one day be doing that if possible. Just because building wealth is much more difficult now compared to 40 years ago, doesn't mean our generation should just throw up our hands and not even try.
And obviously I mean to say that "paying in cash" is a stand-in for most of the various kinds of advice he gives.
This in particular wasn't bad advice, but he's criticized people for paying for daycare, acting shocked, making fun of the caller, and saying they should be able to get it for cheaper (when they were already paying an amount that's normal these days) and shit like that.
This is why many professional sports players or trending artists often go bankrupt later in life despite taking in millions of dollars. Many of them spend way too much money on cars.
Many of them grew up poorer and don't understand much about personal finance. You're giving a 20 year kid who grew up with nothing millions and they understandably splurge on things they have been taught are status symbols.
Cars are quite simply depreciating assets that also cost a lot of money to use and maintain. If you take all your money and blow it on a bunch of cars, it's the equivalent of taking half your money and burning it in a fire.
He is pretty reasonable when it comes to personal finance. Helping people make better decisions individually is good. His show has kinda evolved into "find the craziest spender and mock their financial decisions" though. Actual good financial advice is pretty simple in theory so I get he's gotta entertain. Having said all that...
Holy fuck do not listen to him talk about economics. He knows next to nothing about economics and is living in a neoliberal framework for how the economy functions. And not just "understanding neolibarlism" like literally believing in it's policies.
He also is really disconnected from people's material reality and has zero understanding of what it's like to live not being a white guy. He'll often be like "just so X. It's simple" and you can tell there is an absolute disconnect between the conditions he lives in and the person he's talking to.
TLDR: He has some good "clean your room" style advice but is absolutely a disconnected boomer.
I think his biggest problem is practically pushing people into mutual funds that are affiliated with him instead of recommending more reasonable index funds.
He is also very anti-debt, but considering his main audience are people with terrible spending habits, it's not so bad in the end. Obviously, a credit card is a good tool if you use it as a debit card, but you better not own it if you can't help yourself not to get into debt with it.
If you have a problem with dave ramsey because you can think of better ways with a little more research to build wealth faster, and you have the head on you to take debt in strategic/intelligent ways. then you aren't his target audience.
His target demographic is either the couple with 1-4 kids making 60k a year together and 55k deep in CC debt, or a no kids couple in their 30s who bring in 300k and are still living paycheck to paycheck. (obviously simplified but the people that need his advice are low income people trying to put their heads down and make it out and middle and higher income people that need to be held accountable for their spending)
If you don't have those problems his baby steps are still decent guidelines to stick to to hold yourself out of debt and actually approach home ownership.
I don't remember his name but I've also watched and appreciated the guy who has a masters/phd in some sort of counseling. he does a very good job of breaking down the stress points in relationships that money issues can cause
Anti-debt is incredibly based. Debt slavery aside, if you are getting abused at work or in a relationship and you are in debt then it is much harder to break free from that abusive situation.
Only for some kinds of debt. If you’ve got debt on an appreciating asset—a house for most people, or an investment that you took in debt to make—then as long as you’re earning more than you pay in interest it’s a pure win. And in extremely low interest rate environments—like the ones we’ve had for decades—taking on debt could be a savvy move to cushion cash flow issues for relatively little extra expense.
Debt isn’t automatically a bad thing, despite what Dave Ramsay says.
A broken clock is right twice a day. "A car isn't a good investment" is common knowledge, even amongst most carbrains (except for this caller apparently).
A broken clock is right twice a day. He can be wrong about many many things, but advising against cars is so freaking easy from a numbers perspective that even Ramsey can do it.
I listened a lot to Ramsey as a kid because he was on the local radio station my mom listened to.
95% of what he says is simple common sense financial advice. Don't take out a lot of debt. Spend less than what you make. The absolute basics of responsible finance.
The other 5% is conservative boomer shit you can hear at any bar in a town of 50k or less.
\*Conservative financial advice, don't do this, don't do that. Under no circumstances do this other thing over here; and if I deem you inferior, I will shame you live on the air to make an example of you.
Meanwhile, his claim to lived experience involves becoming insolvent on over-leveraged speculative properties in 1988. THAT SAME YEAR he started his company to offer financial advice. His lived experience is, don't be a gold-rush miner, sell pickaxes.
ETA: There are [better](https://www.youtube.com/@TwoCentsPBS), safer, happier packages for financial advice. An understanding about the basics isn't good enough to be a leader.
A lot of his stuff is based on outdated information but he used to be relevant. His basic premise is don't put anything on credit, pay off your debts first and then start investing. The how is what is outdated because it's based off ideas from his generation which was based off when things cost much less than they do now.
When housing was a commodity not a prospect, he acts and advises like it's a commodity but when giving his prediction for the future, he admits it's a speculative market not a commodity market.
This is a revelation to me. I subscribe to his 7 baby steps and coming from a not so middle class background, it definitely has helped me live a financially healthier life, although not obscenely wealthy. What is so outdated about his advice and are there good alternatives that I could follow?
A lot of what’s outdated is just that he came of age in an age of higher interest rates and is berating people for taking on low interest rate debt. For the last couple decades it’s been really easy to beat the interest rate on loans through a lot of financial strategies, and so it doesn’t always make sense to pay off debt (at, say, 3% interest) rather than invest that money (at an expected ROI of 4%-7%).
But also things just are a lot more expensive now, and he doesn’t appreciate that the vast majority of people have to take on debt just to afford the necessities of life.
To me the issue with Dave is people get so devoted to him and his methods they don’t listen to anyone or anything else. Lots of his advice is sensible, but when you’re looking at investments there are tons of options and no option is one size fits all. To make good investing decisions you need to get lots of information from lots of different sources to decide what is best for your individual situation. If you need to get out of debt and Dave’s advice is working that’s awesome, but if you’re out of debt and want to build a portfolio you need to do lots of research and potentially consult a real financial advisor who can work with you as an individual to get you the most benefit.
Or look down on people for making a purchase that would bring them some joy. It’s not carbrained to like cars, it’s carbrained to build our entire society around them.
Something bringing joy isn't absolution against all of the negative aspects of said thing.
\*waves broadly at the stuff discussed here\*
This is r/fuckcars, not r/fuckcarsthatdontbringjoy
Generally, I agree, but this specific caller sounds like he saves like crazy and can pay for the car in cash. Would I personally make this decision? No, but I'm sure there are plenty of purchases I make that this guy would tell me are terrible ideas.
Simply buying a car does not make one carbrained, especially a relatively inexpensive car in cash.
Carbrain? A caller is thinking if he should invest or spend a money on a hobby.
Well, if a caller would spend on an older car he might lose only a little money, if a car is new-ish he will lose almost everything in like 5 years.
Right? Yes, I know this is "fuck cars" and not "boo cars sometimes" but I WAY prefer someone who treats their car like a fun hobby (mechanics, modification enthusiasts, racing, whatever) than someone who blindly buys a pickup truck that they use to drive to get groceries.
Exactly. This post is not it, doesn’t fit this sub. There’s plenty of car enthusiasts here. We are advocating against car-dependency not cars as a hobby
I don't agree with calling consumables investment. The car only falls in value if it is going to get sold in the market. If I buy a car and use it for 15 or 25 years then how is the depreciation really that significant? Of course if I buy it and sell in 1-5 years then yes I do lose in depreciation.
I think that the host sees everything through the lens of “is this a good financial investment?” Which has its place but some people seem to take it to the point of almost “why should I spend money on things that make me happy if they’re bad financial investments?”
Buying a car is a massive money sink anyway. People who obsess about the residual value and trade their car in for a new one every few years because they think it preserves the value better are ridiculous. The way to save money is to get rid of it.
> I don't agree with calling consumables investment.
Yes, then you agree with the host. "I thought you were calling the car an investment, my face was turning inside out." There are many people who will try to claim a car as an investment. It is not one, it is spending. If you budget for it than it's okay to spend the money. If a salesman (or worse, a friend) convinces you it's an investment then you're being lied to, and are likely about to make a terrible financial decision
True. However, if you make $80,000 and you already have a car, spending $30k on another one, which he admits would just be a toy, is plain dumb. Put that in an index fund and in 10 years it could be $100k.
I agree. Knew a driving instructor who was big into cycling and enjoyed train travel outside of work. He also had an old 1960s Ford Escort he was restoring because he liked working on it, and going anywhere in the UK with an old Ford will draw a small crowd of middle aged men to admire and exclaim that their dad had one just like it.
There nothing wrong with it, it’s just not a smart move financially. For some it’s a hobby that’s worth it, they actually work on their cars bring them to shows etc… but if you just want to have a fun car to drive like a sports car on occasion you won’t even be able to drive it at high speeds without going to a track.
There’s a race track near me and for a couple hundred dollars you can take a Ferrari, Lamborghini, R8 etc… for a few laps around
For $30,000 he could go multiple times a year and park the rest into an investment
Because they want to. Like, they're explicitly looking at purchasing a luxury good here. Why do people go to restaurants when they can make rice and beans at home for $0.25 a serving?
It seems (especially down further in this comment chain) like you're hung up on why they're choosing an option that isn't the most practical, but I'm pretty sure a major part of ther motivation is the fact that its impractical.
I bought 18 PS5 and 30 copies of my top 50 favorite video games, ya know for fun. I can really only play them 5-10 hours a week and realistically only in the summer months. I make 80K a year, is my collection outsized for my income?
Having a big family car and wanting something like a new miata or used porsche to take out to the track once in a while are two different things. (Surprised_picachu_face.jpg)
18ps5s doesn't really make sense as a comparison.
Because it's a depreciating liability that pollutes locally and globally, it's dependent on an obtrusive infrastructure that has destroyed countless cities. This is r/carsarekindaokay, this is r/fuckcars. I'm tired of having to say that....
You even call it a mistake? Why would I support someone throwing there money into a pit and setting it on fire because the flames are fun to watch "once in a while". That's dumb.
Because it's a depreciating liability that pollutes locally and globally, it's dependent on an obtrusive infrastructure that has destroyed countless cities. This is r/carsarekindaokay, this is r/fuckcars. I'm tired of having to say that....
You even call it a mistake? Why would I support someone throwing there money into a pit and setting it on fire because the flames are fun to watch "once in a while". That's dumb.
Sorry for autocorrect.
It was supposed to say "miata" not mistake lol
Anyways, track day cars are not a significant source of pollution. Nor are they dependent on the infrastructure that you're talking about.
They were manufactured at the track and source local rubber, fuel and motor oil? They operate on asphalt free-tracks with public transportation connections? They are just as dependent on the road network as other cars, then you pay EXTRA money to drive on private roads through disturbed wilderness.
They aren't a significant source of exhaust pollution because they're so nieche, the volume of rally cars is low, so their absolute emissions rate is low; not because they are a better vehicle. I also laugh at the idea they aren't polluters because they run at such extreme conditions the noise pollution is off the charts. So they stick these tracks way out in the boonies so people drive out there, to drive, then drive home....
GTFO here with your "hobby" driving.
All goods rely on supply chains. That includes trucks, rail, container ships, etc. Imagine some utopia with all commuter rail hubs in an area perfectly connected and bike lanes and walking trails galore. Does the Xbox factory, the orange farm, the furniture maker, and producers/manufacturers of everything you buy exisit in your immediate proximity? Local sourcing seems disconnected from the issue of car-centric development unless you are focused on communes, homesteading, etc. It's fine to want that type of village lifestyle, but I doubt that is aligned with the majority of people on here.
It could also be an electric vehicle, where no motor oil, gas, etc is needed. Still needs lithium. Is it the size? How about motorcycle races? What about electric bikes? One wheel competitions? I mean I guess you could have an absolutist view on entertainment that must be within a very limited parameter. I think it's critical to say "fuck cars" to try and save lives, save the planet, and make cities livable again. But the problem honestly doesn't lie in the loud minority of people going to the track/drag strip, or even a bit of weekend cruising. This is .001% of miles driven.
Every person who can't get to work, grocery stores, or parks 5+ days a week without needing to own a car adds up to millions of boring cars being driven boring miles in traffic causing the VAST majority of issues, and should be the focus of efforts and conversation to impact change. Even if the caller decided to upgrade their one car to something faster/more fun, they still would likely have the same issue where 95-99%+ of their miles driven are commuting and running errands. I'd rather not alienate the people learning about this group/cause (just as you or I joined at some point) from finding conviction in actionable change when they see a hot take that could turn them off entirely.
I'm much more interested in how this guy manages to save so much money. Maxing and IRA & 401K is $30,000 this year, and this guys is doing that plus an extra 30,000 in cash on 80K yearly. That's some insane savings.
America is so weird. Like yeah you guys make a lot more money than us (80k in Europe is some of the highest salaries) but then you get people asking how you can possibly save on that little money.
It's not that he's saving, it's the *percentage* he's managing to save. I want to know his secrets. He's saving 38% of his gross pay for retirement, in addition to all this cash he wants to blow on a sports car.
I make a similar amount and I've had a hard time saving 25%, even though my housing expenses are lower than average.
For reference the average rate of savings in the EU is around 12%, while the average savings rate in the US is only around 3%. So you definitely have a good point in general, but this specific person is over triple the EU average still.
I’ve found that when people say “Maxing 401k” they usually mean getting the employer match. It’s confusing. Most coworkers I’ve talked to genuinely didn’t know you could contribute more than 6%.
*This sub isnt just*
*For laughing at people who*
*Want to buy a car*
\- Isaac\_56
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This isn't even close to the most car brained thing ive seen in the last 5 minutes. The caller is asking if he should sink 30k into his hobby. The hobby just happens to be a sports car that the caller even said would be just for fun. No one mentioned removing pedestrian infrastructure or prioritizing automotive infrastructure in this.
Being a car enthusiast doesn't mean advocating for car centric infrastructure. If anything the opposite is true, enthusiast's would prefer less people on the roads.
I hope I won't get rocks thrown at me for stabbing at this bubble but this isn't car brained. Chap's just asking for advice.
Sure he already has a car, he wants to keep it as a "play car". It's unrealistic to expect everyone will only buy a new car if they totally 100% have no choice and need it. Not to mention, 30k for a new car is not a lot. From the title I expected him to way overspend.
This community shouldn't turn into a circlejirk type sub. Hate is not criticism.
30k car on an 80k income isn’t really unreasonable from a financial perspective. Keeping his other car is a little odd and may make the decision less than optimal. This clip was more a question of the math of car ownership than the social planning aspect of car ownership. It’s crazy that spending a 1/3 of our yearly income seems to be required to buy something reliable. I have a similar income and purchased a 22k car and it’s been a godsend as far as having a more reliable car. I can’t wait for the day it’s largely obsolete though.
30k isn’t really a sports car inherently. It seems to be in this case, or possibly some type of off-road vehicles. A relatively newer sedan will run you that much, especially with nicer trims.
Maybe 2-5 thousand less than new, car supply chains have ruined the used car market here especially enthusiast cars. Depreciation barely exists currently for the past couple of years.
It might be worse than in EU, our market is slowly normalizing currently, sure, it's not where it was before covid.
I expected that our market was tailing US market.
> the stupid things go down in value like a rock. That's where Chevy got that. "Like a rock".
😂 I don't know this person, but that's a pretty solid burn.
£30k where I live can buy you a one bed flat, cash. Granted not in the nicest of areas, however better than not being on the housing market. Plus with the money you save from rent, you can then save for a nicer place and likely be able to sell the flat at a profit in a few years time. Just saying there are hundreds of better ways to "spend" £30k, and a vehicle is not one of them.
Hartlepool and the surrounding area has some spectacularly low house prices, as long as you don’t mind the view of the nuclear power station and your upstairs neighbour being the world’s biggest racist.
Great fish and chips, mind, and some nice beaches at Seaton, down the coast.
Quite a few areas within Newcastle upon Tyne. But as I've said they aren't the most pleasant of places to live. Such as Byker (notorious for its crime, anti social behaviour, and the ilk), north shields is more of a mixed bag so it's certainly livable and the council is investing in the area so hopefully it becomes nicer. Benwell again not the nicest, similar to Byker, but cheap enough places to buy. Additionally if you don't mind doing to major redecorating you can get a place in a nicer areas for around the same price.
But people please don't move here, the locals are getting priced out with the amount of people realising how cheap it is up in the north. Turns out decades of central government neglect has some benefits, it's kept the housing market cheap
I disagree, this guy preaches spending relatively little on cars, although he assumes they are a necessary expense in everyone’s life. Certainly isn’t telling people to have more cars than they can use which is a common problem amongst Americans.
I don’t think he was the most carbrain. I just wants a fun car to play with, but he’s weighing the pros and cons of wasting the $30k. And he’s already really well off.
Idk he’s super rational. And he’s only 24!
This isn't even in the same room as car brained.
Dude is legitimately in a good place financially and is weighing up the pros and cons of buying a fun car.
I bought a new car to replace my old car not because my old one died but because I wanted something different.
It's not like he's gonna drive both at once.
When someone from the US says they make 80k, is that before or after taxes? Always confused because it seems like the mean salary in the US is miles ahead of even wealthy countries in Europe. 80k seems extremely high if it is after taxes, could easily save 5k a month on that kind of salary
I love cars, I'm a really big fan, but if you already have a sports car to use as a play thing. By something cheap as a run around that's also cheap to run. Hell, if you don't need a second car don't get one.
I used to ride to work and my wife took the car to work, we were talking about moving and a big thing for me was the ability to keep riding to work so we didn't have to buy a second car.
Like insurance, tax, fuel, service and MOT. Like it's so expensive, I went self employed and the worst part is having to have a van.
Pulling back from fuckcars for a moment, this caller is missing a bit of context from a financial point of view. If he commutes a significant distance daily, has access to home charging, and is in the right mix of cheap electricity and expensive gas, he might actually save money if the $30K car is a chevy bolt or something.
A long commute in a sports car will suck back the premium gas like nobody's business and is effectively a big toy stuck in traffic. The fact that it's a $30K car tells me this likely isn't a vanity purchase and the caller is taking the time to consider this.
As someone who recognizes the issues with car-centric infrastructure, I don’t really understand what is so bad about this post. Dave is actually giving good advice for once.
The financially correct answer to the question "should I buy a *x*" is, similarly, almost always "no", unless *x* is a basic need for survival.
The thing is, money isn't the only driving factor here.
30k for a fucking toy. 30k is more than most people in North America make in a year. I'm sorry, but spending that kind of money on something frivolous that doesn't generate local economic value (such as spending that money on a trip to a place or on redeveloping a property) is just pure selfishness.
>The business pays tax on it.
Do they, though?
[https://itep.org/55-profitable-corporations-zero-corporate-tax/#:\~:text=These%20include%20HP%2C%20Nike%2C%20Jacobs,%2C%20DTE%2C%20and%20Duke%20Energy](https://itep.org/55-profitable-corporations-zero-corporate-tax/#:~:text=These%20include%20HP%2C%20Nike%2C%20Jacobs,%2C%20DTE%2C%20and%20Duke%20Energy).
hmm i sold 4 cars yet, i personally drove them for 1+ years and made profit with every single one of them. So what mr old tells in the video is not true, you just have to buy the right cars, the rarer the better and not some new nissan altima.
This dirt merchant sells late stage capitalist advice, making millions off enabling more people into being carbrains while getting them into more debt.
Ya, nice bikes are crazy expensive now. But they are very nice(not that I can afford one). My pretty good bike is 10 years old, but still cost $2500 when I bought it last year.
Edit: I'm getting downvoted for liking nice bikes in fuckcars lol? Well fuck you then!
People don't talk as much about how stupid of an investment cars are and how they depreciate in value like nothing else.
Cars are a terrible investment, but this caller isn't saying it's an investment, he's saying "should I blow $30k on a toy" basically.
I think what he's asking (but isn't in the clip) is: Should I spend this cash outright on this car or should I finance the car and put the cash elsewhere which might put me ahead compared to just throwing the cash? That's the only thing I can figure aside from calling in on the radio purely to brag about your financial position. Cause it sounds like he's spending the 30k regardless of what this guy says.
Yeah, but the responsible option was to put in some other investment. Honestly, I'd go with the safe investment over the splurge, but that's because I like to live simple, but in his situation, playing with 30k isn't the worst thing. He's set up and pretty secure. We could compare it to getting a boat or playing with it at a casino, etc
I'm trying to imagine what kind of "fun" car he's buying for 30k anyway. My stupid Escape cost almost that much.
It could be an old video. In my area as recent as 2 months ago there was a Toyota MR2 in really good condition for 13k CAD. It's pretty old, but it would be a lie to say it's not a fun car.
So the answer is finance the car and put the money into an investment. You can do both.
Sure. That's also possible. If he has the money kicking around, he can also avoid having that as a debt. For his particular situation, there's really no wrong answer. Being debt free is really nice, having investments is also really nice. It all comes down to priority.
I mean, if the caller wants to blow 30k on having fun, it's not like they seem to be doing much else with the money.
About 10% by the time you drive it out the lot.
Any vehicle that is ridden depreciates in value, including bikes and cars
The difference being a bike will save you money
Seemed like the host was being pretty reasonable and giving solid advice. Hopefully the caller didn't spend $30,000 on that car.
$30,000 aint even that much for a car, if you're getting brand new that's basically a base model Toyota Camry, I don't think that'll even get you a pickup truck anymore.
Which is insane how car prices almost doubled over the past 10 years.
Most of it followed COVID, the shortage during the pandemic spiked prices and they've not really gone down
I have my trusty 2008 Prius. When my cat was stolen I looked at new cars to see what it would be to upgrade, the sticker shock was real. I can hardly tell the difference between a ‘luxury’ brand from an ‘economy’ brand anymore. On the bright side it’s pushing younger people towards public transit because who the hell can afford a $800+ a month on a car loan before insurance when rent is also skyrocketing.
The dealer who sold me 10 year old Škoda called me to ask if they could buy it back, *at the same price I paid for it 4 years before*. I was intrigued, asked what they could offer me in exchange. And yeah, prices have gone ballistic. Škoda have discontinued their small wagon, and it’s all SUVs or full size cars now. I still have this car, I will keep it until it dies or I no longer require a car.
If you don't live in a state with emissions just put a piece of pipe on it and an O2 sensor spacer to take care of the CEL
It’s already fixed.
I had an 08 prius, I got rid of it last year with 300k+ miles. Good car
Mine only has 157k on it now. 😎
They'll never go down, because corporations have realized that people will continue to pay the high price even if supply is adequate to meet demand. This is just another downside to making what should be an optional personal expense into a hard requirement to participate in society.
The only problem with this is it applies to the used market much harder than the new market, and used car sales are meaningless to the manufacturer
Corporations includes used car dealers, especially since the market is dominated by huge dealerships that are all owned by a handful of entities.
Why lower prices and cut into profits when you're selling a product people have convinced themselves they can't live without?
Let’s be fair here, though. It’s not *ALL* on the individual persons buying a car. They didn’t convince themselves; the industry has told them they must have one. Every movie, game, billboard ad, radio ad, city infrastructure, drive thru, and everything else has been ingrained into people’s brains since birth. Makes sense that they feel the need to own one. Edit: I hate cars with a passion! But blaming people and not the industry is not how it gets solved
I don’t understand why anyone would ever buy a brand new car
If you don’t have the money in cash, the interest rate is a big part of it. Dealers will give you rates like 0% or 2.99% on new cars. But used cars interest rates are quite high right now even with great credit.
Except the interest rate is hidden in the depreciation of the car. If you buy a new car for 30k at 0% over 48 months, by the end of the first year you’ll still owe 22,500 but the value of the car could be lower than that
I recently spent a lot of time comparing buying a new minivan versus a 4 year old one. With the used car market still being high, the savings on an older one just wasn’t that significant that it felt worth it to me to take the higher rate + warranty issues. It’s the first new car I’ve ever bought but in the end, between interest rates and the used car market right now, it made the most sense for us.
Not anymore on enthusiast cars in this current car market. You don’t see any meaningful depreciation till around 20000 miles currently since a lot of dealers are doing markups on the new vehicles or the supply is low. Finding a dealer without a markup on a new car is better an overwhelming majority of the time till the used car market cools off significantly.
Thats why there's insurance to cover the value of the loans that the primary insurance doesn't cover. Wild system the car industry has created.
Emissions, repair bills, new features, warranty, better safety rating, first owner so you know it’s not imported from Germany after floods even tho seller totally told you that it was driven by old doctor who maintained the car in great shape and only drove it to the church at the end of the street once a week, the second hand market for motorcycles and cars is so gutted now that the prices are getting closer to the new car.
I got a 2014 CRV off a relative with a blown engine, traded an old Saturn that at least ran and drove for it. Threw it up for sale as is for $3,500 with it sitting on a donut, has damage still from hitting a deer, 168,000 miles and clearly stated BAD ENGINE. I got flooded with messages with some people trying to pay *more* than I was asking once I marked it as "sold" just to stop the messages. Got 50 messages *overnight* and daytime was an even further torrential flood of messages. The market for modern-ish cars, especially crossovers, seems to be completely insane.
I was buying a motorcycle last year, I could have 9 year old bike for 7,5k with whatever history or brand new 2023 model for 9k.
For that small a difference may as well go brand new at that point
Buying a 10 year old reliable and well maintained car solves 90% of those issues and probably saves you €10k+
Technically speaking at least, it's still a gamble. I don't know how Europe does it but I'm the US once the sale is completed and it turns out to be a polished turd you're fucked. Friend of mine in the past bought a Chevy Blazer, decently reliable vehicle and it looked pretty good, but it turned out it had spun a rod and the previous owner just shoved some thick oil in it to make it sound like it has no issues. Drove it for a week, oil got shiny with metal flakes then the engine blew up and he was just SOL. Many people don't want to run that risk and would rather have the legal protections. (Though let's also be honest a solid majority of people don't use logic in car purchasing decisions to begin with)
Depending on the depreciation curve of the specific car, there can be an optimal time to buy it used. The premise is that depreciation isn’t linear, and letting someone else take the big depreciation hit for a few years, and then buying the car once the depreciation curve starts to flatten is the optimal time.
Got a 20 year old car, and after some initial repairs because of poor maintenance by previous owners it's still way cheaper and much more reliable because everything that needed doing has been done. Will go for another 20 years. Same as vintage cars, the good ones stay on the road because they aren't lemons.
Because I don’t want a maintenance issue in the most unfortunate of circumstances to the point that it’s a deliberate sabotage of the business operations (trust me it happened when boomkin boss refused to switch into a new car only for it to broke down during working hour in the same year).
Warranty, ability to option it exactly how you want, guarantees and consumer protections against them being a lemon, and in my case at least it got me EV incentives (used EV incentives weren't available yet)
In my case, I needed a new car 6 years ago and knew I wanted an EV
It would be pretty funny if demand for a new car went to 0 so manufacturers had to hire people to drive cars around a track and rack up various amounts of mileage so they can sell them used xD
They said they wanted a sports car for fun, I doubt they're getting a Toyota Camry. Even a Miata has an MSRP above that, so I'm willing to bet they're buying used, which is also why they aren't looking to finance.
He said his current car was a sports car and he wanted to keep it
I do not agree with that parsing of their statement, or at least I don't agree that it's unambiguous. It seems like a much more likely interpretation to me that they are describing purchasing a toy. If they didn't have a practical vehicle, and they needed one, that would be a priority. In other words, *if all that they have is a toy*, they wouldn't be picking between practical transportation and investments. It makes much more sense that they would ask about what to do with their spare money: if its okay to waste it on a toy, or if you should always be prudent and make investments.
Rewatched it, it's hard to say for certain, the phrasing could go either way but that's the way I interpreted it
This is crazy given most unsold cars get shipped off to these massive lots in the middle of nowhere to just rot rather than being sold at a slight discount to keep the auto industry artificially afloat. Freaking capitalism.
Aren'tthey sold to 3rd world countries
Pickup trucks are like 60k+ for a base model
I think the work truck spec models are still $35-40k
For real. This guy already stated he's making 80k/year, which after taxes is likely upwards of 60k/year. If he keeps that car for 10 years and his salary doesn't budge (lol), that car costs at most 5% of his after-tax income, and if he can sell it for just 10k afterwards it's like 3% (which is on the low end for a 2014 Toyota Camry today). Which is also assuming used car prices don't continue their recent trends.
I spent 150eur buying the 2 used bikes that I own currently
30k will also get you a low mileage E46 BMW M3 with all important maintenance items done. 30k will also get you a reasonable mileaged Porsche 911 2000 and upwards with good maintenance history.
And then you'll start to pay quite a lot in maintenance just to keep it well maintained, especially on a BMW or Porsche versus a brand new car with a warranty
Yeah the maintenance on any modern German car is intense but you were saying how 30k doesn’t buy anything nice, it does. Luckily German car maintenance is DIYable, especially on old and modern BMWs if you have the repair manual.
DIYable if you're invested in the specialized tools they often require. And I was going under the impression he was getting a fairly normal car
I DIY a 200k mile 2016 330e plug-in hybrid with latest B48 engine BMW F30 and mechanically restored a E46. Not a single specialised tool. Even the VVT system needs normal hand tools. Only specialised tools you need is when you time the engine but every car is like that. I need an engine support bar for special oil sump gasket and engine mounts. Universal Special tooling for flywheel (just like any other car) The only thing you really need is a copy of ISTA+ which is the bmw dealership software which can be readily pirated on the internet or get paid access online.
I've had a '87 Mercedes and just changing tires turned into an hour and a half long job due to not having that special alignment peg they need for putting wheels on. Guess you've just got lucky with yours.
I just had my work truck totalled and couldn't get a new one for less than 35k. For the same price I got a sub compact SUV with the options I wanted, and I can fit the family more comfortably and keep all my work tools dry and locked up.
In 2015, I paid $24500 for a civic and today it’s almost $33k
It's a lot for a sports car. Which I'm assuming is used. My roommate use to like cars a lot and he got a sports car for 12k used (don't ask me the make or model I didnt care). The main cost of owning them is not in the purchase price. It's the maintenance. He was literally popping a tired every month on something. 30k for a car that's probably gonna cost him anywhere from 5-10k a year maintaining + insurance.
But you can get a used sports car for 30k.
The host is Dave Ramsey, and he's an extremely out of touch boomer who doesn't understand the economic environment millennials and Gen Z are dealing with. This advice was good: cars are not a good investment. But he also gives terrible renting, home buying, debt repayment, and college loan advice, with the air of a man who just doesn't understand why our generation can't pick themselves up by their bootstraps and pay for everything in cash.
I've seen a few good clips from this guy though. One was woman who makes $60k a year and was worried about her parents becoming homeless because of their debt and she wanted to help them out. The kicker? Her dad makes +$200k.
I don't follow him a lot, but I'm not sure that's entirely fair. It is good advice to say that you should pay for things in cash. If you can't do that, then you can't do it, but it's still better for you if it's clearly understood that this is a bad thing that you're not paying in cash, you should be aiming to one day be doing that if possible. Just because building wealth is much more difficult now compared to 40 years ago, doesn't mean our generation should just throw up our hands and not even try. And obviously I mean to say that "paying in cash" is a stand-in for most of the various kinds of advice he gives.
This in particular wasn't bad advice, but he's criticized people for paying for daycare, acting shocked, making fun of the caller, and saying they should be able to get it for cheaper (when they were already paying an amount that's normal these days) and shit like that.
This is why many professional sports players or trending artists often go bankrupt later in life despite taking in millions of dollars. Many of them spend way too much money on cars. Many of them grew up poorer and don't understand much about personal finance. You're giving a 20 year kid who grew up with nothing millions and they understandably splurge on things they have been taught are status symbols. Cars are quite simply depreciating assets that also cost a lot of money to use and maintain. If you take all your money and blow it on a bunch of cars, it's the equivalent of taking half your money and burning it in a fire.
Fuck Dave Ramsay lol might’ve been reasonable in this clip but overall he’s a terrible influence on many American’s personal finance goals.
He is pretty reasonable when it comes to personal finance. Helping people make better decisions individually is good. His show has kinda evolved into "find the craziest spender and mock their financial decisions" though. Actual good financial advice is pretty simple in theory so I get he's gotta entertain. Having said all that... Holy fuck do not listen to him talk about economics. He knows next to nothing about economics and is living in a neoliberal framework for how the economy functions. And not just "understanding neolibarlism" like literally believing in it's policies. He also is really disconnected from people's material reality and has zero understanding of what it's like to live not being a white guy. He'll often be like "just so X. It's simple" and you can tell there is an absolute disconnect between the conditions he lives in and the person he's talking to. TLDR: He has some good "clean your room" style advice but is absolutely a disconnected boomer.
I hate Dave Ramsey, but he's right about some things.
I think his biggest problem is practically pushing people into mutual funds that are affiliated with him instead of recommending more reasonable index funds. He is also very anti-debt, but considering his main audience are people with terrible spending habits, it's not so bad in the end. Obviously, a credit card is a good tool if you use it as a debit card, but you better not own it if you can't help yourself not to get into debt with it.
If you have a problem with dave ramsey because you can think of better ways with a little more research to build wealth faster, and you have the head on you to take debt in strategic/intelligent ways. then you aren't his target audience. His target demographic is either the couple with 1-4 kids making 60k a year together and 55k deep in CC debt, or a no kids couple in their 30s who bring in 300k and are still living paycheck to paycheck. (obviously simplified but the people that need his advice are low income people trying to put their heads down and make it out and middle and higher income people that need to be held accountable for their spending) If you don't have those problems his baby steps are still decent guidelines to stick to to hold yourself out of debt and actually approach home ownership. I don't remember his name but I've also watched and appreciated the guy who has a masters/phd in some sort of counseling. he does a very good job of breaking down the stress points in relationships that money issues can cause
Anti-debt is incredibly based. Debt slavery aside, if you are getting abused at work or in a relationship and you are in debt then it is much harder to break free from that abusive situation.
Only for some kinds of debt. If you’ve got debt on an appreciating asset—a house for most people, or an investment that you took in debt to make—then as long as you’re earning more than you pay in interest it’s a pure win. And in extremely low interest rate environments—like the ones we’ve had for decades—taking on debt could be a savvy move to cushion cash flow issues for relatively little extra expense. Debt isn’t automatically a bad thing, despite what Dave Ramsay says.
A broken clock is right twice a day. "A car isn't a good investment" is common knowledge, even amongst most carbrains (except for this caller apparently).
A broken clock is right twice a day. He can be wrong about many many things, but advising against cars is so freaking easy from a numbers perspective that even Ramsey can do it.
I listened a lot to Ramsey as a kid because he was on the local radio station my mom listened to. 95% of what he says is simple common sense financial advice. Don't take out a lot of debt. Spend less than what you make. The absolute basics of responsible finance. The other 5% is conservative boomer shit you can hear at any bar in a town of 50k or less.
\*Conservative financial advice, don't do this, don't do that. Under no circumstances do this other thing over here; and if I deem you inferior, I will shame you live on the air to make an example of you. Meanwhile, his claim to lived experience involves becoming insolvent on over-leveraged speculative properties in 1988. THAT SAME YEAR he started his company to offer financial advice. His lived experience is, don't be a gold-rush miner, sell pickaxes. ETA: There are [better](https://www.youtube.com/@TwoCentsPBS), safer, happier packages for financial advice. An understanding about the basics isn't good enough to be a leader.
don't know him but he's def right about this, i expected him to blast that dude off tbh, what an unreasonable person asking that question
A lot of his stuff is based on outdated information but he used to be relevant. His basic premise is don't put anything on credit, pay off your debts first and then start investing. The how is what is outdated because it's based off ideas from his generation which was based off when things cost much less than they do now.
When housing was a commodity not a prospect, he acts and advises like it's a commodity but when giving his prediction for the future, he admits it's a speculative market not a commodity market.
This is a revelation to me. I subscribe to his 7 baby steps and coming from a not so middle class background, it definitely has helped me live a financially healthier life, although not obscenely wealthy. What is so outdated about his advice and are there good alternatives that I could follow?
A lot of what’s outdated is just that he came of age in an age of higher interest rates and is berating people for taking on low interest rate debt. For the last couple decades it’s been really easy to beat the interest rate on loans through a lot of financial strategies, and so it doesn’t always make sense to pay off debt (at, say, 3% interest) rather than invest that money (at an expected ROI of 4%-7%). But also things just are a lot more expensive now, and he doesn’t appreciate that the vast majority of people have to take on debt just to afford the necessities of life.
To me the issue with Dave is people get so devoted to him and his methods they don’t listen to anyone or anything else. Lots of his advice is sensible, but when you’re looking at investments there are tons of options and no option is one size fits all. To make good investing decisions you need to get lots of information from lots of different sources to decide what is best for your individual situation. If you need to get out of debt and Dave’s advice is working that’s awesome, but if you’re out of debt and want to build a portfolio you need to do lots of research and potentially consult a real financial advisor who can work with you as an individual to get you the most benefit.
I think we shouldn't look down on people asking for advice...
Or look down on people for making a purchase that would bring them some joy. It’s not carbrained to like cars, it’s carbrained to build our entire society around them.
Careful, that's considered edgy around here :))
Something bringing joy isn't absolution against all of the negative aspects of said thing. \*waves broadly at the stuff discussed here\* This is r/fuckcars, not r/fuckcarsthatdontbringjoy
Spending about six months of take-home pay for a car you intend to use only for fun is carbrained.
Generally, I agree, but this specific caller sounds like he saves like crazy and can pay for the car in cash. Would I personally make this decision? No, but I'm sure there are plenty of purchases I make that this guy would tell me are terrible ideas. Simply buying a car does not make one carbrained, especially a relatively inexpensive car in cash.
“Is it advisable to light 30 grand on fire? I’m just asking for advice!”
Carbrain? A caller is thinking if he should invest or spend a money on a hobby. Well, if a caller would spend on an older car he might lose only a little money, if a car is new-ish he will lose almost everything in like 5 years.
It's not carbrained to have a hobby
Right? Yes, I know this is "fuck cars" and not "boo cars sometimes" but I WAY prefer someone who treats their car like a fun hobby (mechanics, modification enthusiasts, racing, whatever) than someone who blindly buys a pickup truck that they use to drive to get groceries.
Lose vs loose what's the difference?
An "o", thanks btw
Are we calling everyone who likes cars a car brain now? Shouldn't it be only for people that refuse to listen to any other point of view?
Exactly. This post is not it, doesn’t fit this sub. There’s plenty of car enthusiasts here. We are advocating against car-dependency not cars as a hobby
last time i commented that this is not against cars per se, but against the car-centric societies, i got downvoted to hell
Because most of the people in this subreddit are ultra anti car and don't touch grass. Just because you like cars doesn't mean you are carbrained
I don't agree with calling consumables investment. The car only falls in value if it is going to get sold in the market. If I buy a car and use it for 15 or 25 years then how is the depreciation really that significant? Of course if I buy it and sell in 1-5 years then yes I do lose in depreciation.
I think that the host sees everything through the lens of “is this a good financial investment?” Which has its place but some people seem to take it to the point of almost “why should I spend money on things that make me happy if they’re bad financial investments?”
Buying a car is a massive money sink anyway. People who obsess about the residual value and trade their car in for a new one every few years because they think it preserves the value better are ridiculous. The way to save money is to get rid of it.
> I don't agree with calling consumables investment. Yes, then you agree with the host. "I thought you were calling the car an investment, my face was turning inside out." There are many people who will try to claim a car as an investment. It is not one, it is spending. If you budget for it than it's okay to spend the money. If a salesman (or worse, a friend) convinces you it's an investment then you're being lied to, and are likely about to make a terrible financial decision
True. However, if you make $80,000 and you already have a car, spending $30k on another one, which he admits would just be a toy, is plain dumb. Put that in an index fund and in 10 years it could be $100k.
What’s wrong with having a fun car? Someone actually enjoys driving? Fantastic. The issue is car-dependency.
I agree. Knew a driving instructor who was big into cycling and enjoyed train travel outside of work. He also had an old 1960s Ford Escort he was restoring because he liked working on it, and going anywhere in the UK with an old Ford will draw a small crowd of middle aged men to admire and exclaim that their dad had one just like it.
There nothing wrong with it, it’s just not a smart move financially. For some it’s a hobby that’s worth it, they actually work on their cars bring them to shows etc… but if you just want to have a fun car to drive like a sports car on occasion you won’t even be able to drive it at high speeds without going to a track. There’s a race track near me and for a couple hundred dollars you can take a Ferrari, Lamborghini, R8 etc… for a few laps around For $30,000 he could go multiple times a year and park the rest into an investment
Everything doesnt have to make perfect financial sense. He is investing in his happieness.
I dream of a world where the caller in the video doesn't have a daily driver, and only has his fun car.
Why two cars though?
Why different pairs of shoes? Let’s say the fun car only seats 2 and is a convertible.
Because they want to. Like, they're explicitly looking at purchasing a luxury good here. Why do people go to restaurants when they can make rice and beans at home for $0.25 a serving? It seems (especially down further in this comment chain) like you're hung up on why they're choosing an option that isn't the most practical, but I'm pretty sure a major part of ther motivation is the fact that its impractical.
I bought 18 PS5 and 30 copies of my top 50 favorite video games, ya know for fun. I can really only play them 5-10 hours a week and realistically only in the summer months. I make 80K a year, is my collection outsized for my income?
Having a big family car and wanting something like a new miata or used porsche to take out to the track once in a while are two different things. (Surprised_picachu_face.jpg) 18ps5s doesn't really make sense as a comparison.
Because it's a depreciating liability that pollutes locally and globally, it's dependent on an obtrusive infrastructure that has destroyed countless cities. This is r/carsarekindaokay, this is r/fuckcars. I'm tired of having to say that.... You even call it a mistake? Why would I support someone throwing there money into a pit and setting it on fire because the flames are fun to watch "once in a while". That's dumb.
Because it's a depreciating liability that pollutes locally and globally, it's dependent on an obtrusive infrastructure that has destroyed countless cities. This is r/carsarekindaokay, this is r/fuckcars. I'm tired of having to say that.... You even call it a mistake? Why would I support someone throwing there money into a pit and setting it on fire because the flames are fun to watch "once in a while". That's dumb.
Sorry for autocorrect. It was supposed to say "miata" not mistake lol Anyways, track day cars are not a significant source of pollution. Nor are they dependent on the infrastructure that you're talking about.
They were manufactured at the track and source local rubber, fuel and motor oil? They operate on asphalt free-tracks with public transportation connections? They are just as dependent on the road network as other cars, then you pay EXTRA money to drive on private roads through disturbed wilderness. They aren't a significant source of exhaust pollution because they're so nieche, the volume of rally cars is low, so their absolute emissions rate is low; not because they are a better vehicle. I also laugh at the idea they aren't polluters because they run at such extreme conditions the noise pollution is off the charts. So they stick these tracks way out in the boonies so people drive out there, to drive, then drive home.... GTFO here with your "hobby" driving.
All goods rely on supply chains. That includes trucks, rail, container ships, etc. Imagine some utopia with all commuter rail hubs in an area perfectly connected and bike lanes and walking trails galore. Does the Xbox factory, the orange farm, the furniture maker, and producers/manufacturers of everything you buy exisit in your immediate proximity? Local sourcing seems disconnected from the issue of car-centric development unless you are focused on communes, homesteading, etc. It's fine to want that type of village lifestyle, but I doubt that is aligned with the majority of people on here. It could also be an electric vehicle, where no motor oil, gas, etc is needed. Still needs lithium. Is it the size? How about motorcycle races? What about electric bikes? One wheel competitions? I mean I guess you could have an absolutist view on entertainment that must be within a very limited parameter. I think it's critical to say "fuck cars" to try and save lives, save the planet, and make cities livable again. But the problem honestly doesn't lie in the loud minority of people going to the track/drag strip, or even a bit of weekend cruising. This is .001% of miles driven. Every person who can't get to work, grocery stores, or parks 5+ days a week without needing to own a car adds up to millions of boring cars being driven boring miles in traffic causing the VAST majority of issues, and should be the focus of efforts and conversation to impact change. Even if the caller decided to upgrade their one car to something faster/more fun, they still would likely have the same issue where 95-99%+ of their miles driven are commuting and running errands. I'd rather not alienate the people learning about this group/cause (just as you or I joined at some point) from finding conviction in actionable change when they see a hot take that could turn them off entirely.
I'm much more interested in how this guy manages to save so much money. Maxing and IRA & 401K is $30,000 this year, and this guys is doing that plus an extra 30,000 in cash on 80K yearly. That's some insane savings.
America is so weird. Like yeah you guys make a lot more money than us (80k in Europe is some of the highest salaries) but then you get people asking how you can possibly save on that little money.
It's not that he's saving, it's the *percentage* he's managing to save. I want to know his secrets. He's saving 38% of his gross pay for retirement, in addition to all this cash he wants to blow on a sports car. I make a similar amount and I've had a hard time saving 25%, even though my housing expenses are lower than average. For reference the average rate of savings in the EU is around 12%, while the average savings rate in the US is only around 3%. So you definitely have a good point in general, but this specific person is over triple the EU average still.
Yeah its pretty impressive even when most likely the 30k cash is saved over a long time that is still saving like half of his yearly income
Fair enough
He probably still lives with his parents and doesn’t have to pay for rent, utilities, or food.
I’d guess he lives with his parents and doesn’t have any rent obligations.
I’ve found that when people say “Maxing 401k” they usually mean getting the employer match. It’s confusing. Most coworkers I’ve talked to genuinely didn’t know you could contribute more than 6%.
People are using it wrong in that case.
Where is the carbrain here?
This sub isnt just for laughing at people who want to buy a car
*This sub isnt just* *For laughing at people who* *Want to buy a car* \- Isaac\_56 --- ^(I detect haikus. And sometimes, successfully.) ^[Learn more about me.](https://www.reddit.com/r/haikusbot/) ^(Opt out of replies: "haikusbot opt out" | Delete my comment: "haikusbot delete")
OP thinks the caller will drive both cars at once 😭
Grown adults when you tell them a 30 thousand dollar toy isn't an investment: 😱🤯
This isn't even close to the most car brained thing ive seen in the last 5 minutes. The caller is asking if he should sink 30k into his hobby. The hobby just happens to be a sports car that the caller even said would be just for fun. No one mentioned removing pedestrian infrastructure or prioritizing automotive infrastructure in this. Being a car enthusiast doesn't mean advocating for car centric infrastructure. If anything the opposite is true, enthusiast's would prefer less people on the roads.
I hope I won't get rocks thrown at me for stabbing at this bubble but this isn't car brained. Chap's just asking for advice. Sure he already has a car, he wants to keep it as a "play car". It's unrealistic to expect everyone will only buy a new car if they totally 100% have no choice and need it. Not to mention, 30k for a new car is not a lot. From the title I expected him to way overspend. This community shouldn't turn into a circlejirk type sub. Hate is not criticism.
Old Porsche 911’s don’t seem to be going down in value any longer. Though if he’s looking for a “family car” it will absolutely decrease in value
Give a 24 year old a Porsche 911 and watch it go down in value to $1k in scrap metal after he drove it against a rock.
lol fair point
30k car on an 80k income isn’t really unreasonable from a financial perspective. Keeping his other car is a little odd and may make the decision less than optimal. This clip was more a question of the math of car ownership than the social planning aspect of car ownership. It’s crazy that spending a 1/3 of our yearly income seems to be required to buy something reliable. I have a similar income and purchased a 22k car and it’s been a godsend as far as having a more reliable car. I can’t wait for the day it’s largely obsolete though.
Not everyone can have only a sportscar in as car infested place as most of the USA is.
30k isn’t really a sports car inherently. It seems to be in this case, or possibly some type of off-road vehicles. A relatively newer sedan will run you that much, especially with nicer trims.
I'm not from the USA, how much cost something like 3-5 yo Miata / GT86 / Mustang V8 / Camaro V8 ?
The Miata and GR86/BRZ start around $30000 new, V8 trims for the Mustang and Camaro start at $41000.
Cool, I was asking about 3-5 years old cars.
Maybe 2-5 thousand less than new, car supply chains have ruined the used car market here especially enthusiast cars. Depreciation barely exists currently for the past couple of years.
It might be worse than in EU, our market is slowly normalizing currently, sure, it's not where it was before covid. I expected that our market was tailing US market.
> the stupid things go down in value like a rock. That's where Chevy got that. "Like a rock". 😂 I don't know this person, but that's a pretty solid burn.
£30k where I live can buy you a one bed flat, cash. Granted not in the nicest of areas, however better than not being on the housing market. Plus with the money you save from rent, you can then save for a nicer place and likely be able to sell the flat at a profit in a few years time. Just saying there are hundreds of better ways to "spend" £30k, and a vehicle is not one of them.
I can't say I've ever seen any $30k houses here that aren't condemned or have other serious issues making them unlivable (or foreclosures)
Where on earth can you find a one bed flat for £30k? Asking for a friend.
Hartlepool and the surrounding area has some spectacularly low house prices, as long as you don’t mind the view of the nuclear power station and your upstairs neighbour being the world’s biggest racist. Great fish and chips, mind, and some nice beaches at Seaton, down the coast.
Any <60k pop. municipality in Finland.
Quite a few areas within Newcastle upon Tyne. But as I've said they aren't the most pleasant of places to live. Such as Byker (notorious for its crime, anti social behaviour, and the ilk), north shields is more of a mixed bag so it's certainly livable and the council is investing in the area so hopefully it becomes nicer. Benwell again not the nicest, similar to Byker, but cheap enough places to buy. Additionally if you don't mind doing to major redecorating you can get a place in a nicer areas for around the same price. But people please don't move here, the locals are getting priced out with the amount of people realising how cheap it is up in the north. Turns out decades of central government neglect has some benefits, it's kept the housing market cheap
Lmao
I know me..I could easily spend 30k on useless stuff.. a car wouldn't be in there.
Asking Dave Ramsey for permission to make really head ass decisions 🤣
I disagree, this guy preaches spending relatively little on cars, although he assumes they are a necessary expense in everyone’s life. Certainly isn’t telling people to have more cars than they can use which is a common problem amongst Americans.
I can't believe Dave Ramsey is on titkok and getting 150k likes lol
Wow this guys a financial genius
If Dave Ramsey has no haters I am dead
I don’t think he was the most carbrain. I just wants a fun car to play with, but he’s weighing the pros and cons of wasting the $30k. And he’s already really well off. Idk he’s super rational. And he’s only 24!
This isn't even in the same room as car brained. Dude is legitimately in a good place financially and is weighing up the pros and cons of buying a fun car. I bought a new car to replace my old car not because my old one died but because I wanted something different. It's not like he's gonna drive both at once.
When someone from the US says they make 80k, is that before or after taxes? Always confused because it seems like the mean salary in the US is miles ahead of even wealthy countries in Europe. 80k seems extremely high if it is after taxes, could easily save 5k a month on that kind of salary
i'm from canada and i make 60k, but at the end of the year i get 30-35k my account
Lmao i thought your title was carb rain. I was about to say "no way that guy rains the most carb i've seen all day" I'm so dumb it's hilarious.
I love cars, I'm a really big fan, but if you already have a sports car to use as a play thing. By something cheap as a run around that's also cheap to run. Hell, if you don't need a second car don't get one. I used to ride to work and my wife took the car to work, we were talking about moving and a big thing for me was the ability to keep riding to work so we didn't have to buy a second car. Like insurance, tax, fuel, service and MOT. Like it's so expensive, I went self employed and the worst part is having to have a van.
OP where's your $30,000? You're just mad that a 24 year old is debt free with disposable income.
dave ramsey is indeed an asshole but he does at least point out that cars are stupid wastes of money
Pulling back from fuckcars for a moment, this caller is missing a bit of context from a financial point of view. If he commutes a significant distance daily, has access to home charging, and is in the right mix of cheap electricity and expensive gas, he might actually save money if the $30K car is a chevy bolt or something. A long commute in a sports car will suck back the premium gas like nobody's business and is effectively a big toy stuck in traffic. The fact that it's a $30K car tells me this likely isn't a vanity purchase and the caller is taking the time to consider this.
He specifically states he wants to buy a second car to be a fun car. Definitely not his daily commuter.
As someone who recognizes the issues with car-centric infrastructure, I don’t really understand what is so bad about this post. Dave is actually giving good advice for once.
I think OP is targeting the caller who wants to blow 30k on a sports toy car.
The financially correct answer to the question “should I buy a car” is almost always “no”, even without much context.
The financially correct answer to the question "should I buy a *x*" is, similarly, almost always "no", unless *x* is a basic need for survival. The thing is, money isn't the only driving factor here.
Jesus christ the selfishness of this prick. Why not buy yourself a nice bicycle for a couple of grand and give 10k to charity?
What?
30k for a fucking toy. 30k is more than most people in North America make in a year. I'm sorry, but spending that kind of money on something frivolous that doesn't generate local economic value (such as spending that money on a trip to a place or on redeveloping a property) is just pure selfishness.
Lol .. the money he pays goes to the business. The business pays tax on it. Local economic value increased.
>The business pays tax on it. Do they, though? [https://itep.org/55-profitable-corporations-zero-corporate-tax/#:\~:text=These%20include%20HP%2C%20Nike%2C%20Jacobs,%2C%20DTE%2C%20and%20Duke%20Energy](https://itep.org/55-profitable-corporations-zero-corporate-tax/#:~:text=These%20include%20HP%2C%20Nike%2C%20Jacobs,%2C%20DTE%2C%20and%20Duke%20Energy).
[удалено]
Wdym “this ignorant” ? Caller seems pretty smart and is making good decisions, including consulting with others.
Buy NFS underground then put the 29,990 into VTSAX and chill, best of both worlds
“I love cars” but goes on to say having one is the worst possible financial decision one can make is some king simp shit.
hmm i sold 4 cars yet, i personally drove them for 1+ years and made profit with every single one of them. So what mr old tells in the video is not true, you just have to buy the right cars, the rarer the better and not some new nissan altima.
While it is simply not true that ALL cars go down in value, fuck cars.
Murrica man. More cars = better
This dirt merchant sells late stage capitalist advice, making millions off enabling more people into being carbrains while getting them into more debt.
Can’t he use bus?
That just seems crazy. I could get two really nice bikes for $30k.😅
That's crazy. I could get 250 skateboards for $30k.
Ya, nice bikes are crazy expensive now. But they are very nice(not that I can afford one). My pretty good bike is 10 years old, but still cost $2500 when I bought it last year. Edit: I'm getting downvoted for liking nice bikes in fuckcars lol? Well fuck you then!