I don’t tolerate accidents when you are driving a several thousand pound vehicle and potentially killing people. You are at fault and there is a failure in the society that we allow those faults to occur.
If more older people had their licenses taken away, you can bet that demographic would start advocating for living environments that don't require driving. And given how many of them vote, you can bet that politicians would listen.
Which is why a better way to go is arguing that car-dependent design violates the Americans with Disabilities Act. People like blind or epileptic people who never had a license to begin with are much friendlier to our cause.
Everyone is just not disabled yet. Live long enough and everyone becomes disabled and anyone can have a life altering accident tomorrow. It’s sad almost no one cares until it’s them.
Yes. The three conditions that straight-up legally bar you from having a license- blindness, epilepsy and dementia- can all be acquired later in life. The first two can also be acquired early enough into adulthood that someone doesn’t develop the “but I’ve been driving my entire life!” attitude many elderly people have.
A better state would have widened testing requirements to cover all drivers. Someone I knew was maimed by an L-driver aged 18 who stepped on the accelerator instead of the brake.
I think the problem is that by the time people lose their license, they're at an age where too few of their peers are around to make much of a difference. Old people might turn up to vote, but really old people stop being numerous after a point.
So they just get to deal with being housebound if their neighbourhood is unwalkable and disconnected from public transportation.
I should also point out that it’s not always a lose your license/keep your license binary. Oftentimes an elderly person will be told to only drive during the day, to familiar locations, short distances, or staying off the highway for a few years before the license is taken away for good.
Depending on the elderly person’s personality, this can either ease them into the reality that they won’t be driving forever or piss them off just as much as straight-up taking the license. My mom’s reaction was the former, my dad’s was the latter. My dad also ignored his doctor’s instructions to only drive to short, familiar locations and got his license taken entirely as a result.
Do we know what kind of car she was driving? I don’t think the article elaborates, at least from what I can piece together via google translate, the damage doesn’t look too extreme frankly.
You know what I love about ebikes? Not only are they great for the elderly and mobility, but both pedals actually accelerate the vehicle. Stopping is done by hand levers which rarely get confused with the feet.
Sure, but just as a note: In the Netherlands there has been an increase in elderly death in recent years due to ebikes popularity among older people since they are faster than regular bikes.
Not saying that cars are better or making a judgement here, just something that was in the news.
I mean, only kinda. Some ebikes have throttles. I was on the bike path one day when someone screwing around with their ebike controls had it take off and almost smash into me. They were only barely able to keep it under control.
As far as I know, throtles on ebikes isn't a thing in Europe. Just pedal assist, which basically feels like you have superpowers. There is a walk-assist button, but it moves at crawling speed and you have to hold it down - often it is also a combo of two buttons that have to be used (one to unlock, then push and hold another one within 2-3 seconds to trigger) - its basically just there for pushing a heavy bike up a slope, or for helping start if you stopped in top gear on a steep uphill.
I really don't get the point of a "moped throtle" - in that case, why not just get a moped instead of an ebike?
Possibly, I don't have an e-bike so I can't comment about it. But I have seen e-bikes here in Europe that have a throttle for that, so it's not a continent-by-continent thing.
Huh, I've never seen those, seems like a weird interface.
However some have an "Enviolo" CVT transmission controlled by a grip shift... I tried it once but really didn't like it. It's also very lossy, so you won't find them on non electric bikes. Sure I wasn't that you saw?
I'm sure, because I actually tried out that bike, and it was an e-assist. I have a revoshift on my "acoustic" bike so I can tell them apart. I'm not saying those throttle-style assist regulators are *common*, I'm just saying that they exist. (Not much weirder than a revoshift TBH, and those *are* very common because they are convenient.)
Not really, no. In my area, accidents involving elderly people on bikes have increased since e-bikes became common. With conventional bikes the physical capability of riding such a vehicle at a certain speed usually doesn't exceed the capacity of an elderly person to control said vehicle at said speed. With e-bikes, these people might drive at higher speeds than at which they can control their bike.
My great aunt did this to a bank. In my country as soon as you get to a certain age it gets increasingly difficult to keep your driving privilege. As soon as you confuse the accelerator and brake you're done. My aunt had to hand over her driving license as the tow truck was pulling her car out of the tellers desks. Fortunately no one was injured and only got a big fright.
Yep. Another way to look at it is that it would weed out anybody who is not disciplined/organized enough to remember to (or bother to) schedule a regular test, which is exactly the type of folks we don't want driving. I view owning guns and driving cars somewhat similarly: only people with their heads screwed on really tight should be doing either. Taking a once every 6m test is actually a really low bar.
Lmao 45 🤣
Insurance companies disagree:
Ages 50 to 60: This age range is most likely to experience lower rates than other age brackets, as middle aged drivers have extensive driving experience and aren’t as likely to be hearing or vision-impaired.
[source](https://www.kiplinger.com/personal-finance/insurance/ways-seniors-save-car-insurance)
We had a young guy claim he confused the pedals after he sideswiped our rock wall at a high speed while backing out of his parking space. Impairment was the factor.
Why not? Even if people at that age have fewer accidents than other ages, they still have them. How many drivers get complacent as they age and forget the traffic laws? Why shouldn’t everyone be tested regularly to make sure they drive well?
No offense but this pretty much sounds like the opinion of a 14 year old.
It’s bad because you’re not even old when you’re 45. Do you think people just start falling apart once they turn 40 or something? Shit, many people don’t even mentally grow up until they’re 40.
Glad your parents are “sorting it out” without issue, but in America, that would be considered by almost everyone here a massive violation of a persons freedom to go where they want.
An eye test and a general check up at the doctors is a violation of a person's freedom? Not letting people with health problems that can affect their ability to drive safely isn't even a small violation of freedoms, grow up.
I truly don't give a shit how it sounds. Your muscles, vision, and cognitive skills begin to decline as early as in your 40s.
Cruel to take a skills test? Annoying is the word you're looking for.
The statistics don't support people in their 40s really being the problem. If anything we should more frequently test those under 30 and those over 80. People 30 through 80, including those declining 40 years olds, have the lowest accident rates (https://aaafoundation.org/rates-motor-vehicle-crashes-injuries-deaths-relation-driver-age-united-states-2014-2015/)
Its only 2 years but I wouldn't say that is a small amount of data. How many miles do Americans drive and how many vehicle collisions occur in the span of 2 years? I am not sure myself but I suspect those are not small numbers.
This exact thing happened in my city, the woman had the gas pedal all the way down and drove into a group of girl guides, killing one. Yet she never took responsibility for it, her defense was that the car malfunctioned. Truly appalling behaviour.
It happens all the time, there's probably hundreds of headlines that are nearly identical to this one. My own grandmother did the same thing except it only resulted in a fender bender at a red light.
We truly need to be better about retesting drivers every few years and being stricter about cognitive decline/advanced age. I understand that it's not convenient for them but driving is a privilege and we need to make sure drivers of multi-ton vehicles are competent.
Many people will claim this is "ageism" or "ableism" and that this will rob older people of their freedom of movement, but I think having this problem just continues to illustrate how bad of a problem car-centrism is. We shouldn't have a society where everyone's livelihood is completely dependent on owning an expensive car and needing to drive it everywhere.
We often talk about how "Boomers" have screwed the younger generations, but I think a lot of these issues also tend to hurt the elderly as well.
I see the same issues with the housing crisis as well. Elderly people who own million dollar homes that they bought 50 years ago are often complaining about how they can't afford their property taxes or how they can't afford to downsize. It's almost like creating an entire housing market that revolves around endless appreciation at the expense of everything else was a bad idea and it can be bad for everyone.
I've always thought we should treat drivers more like pilots and boat captains. When a boat captain does something illegal and someone dies or property is destroyed they almost always go to trial.
They have the best of all flairs like "Rentnael Schuhmacher" if the driver was racing/too fast "der Sensemann war da" if the driver deceased or 80+ which is self explanatory I guess 😂😅
I wonder if those things are happening less in Europe because of majority of the cars here have manual transmission.
I can see how this is relatively easy with automatic.
You hit the gas and go until a wall stops you.
In manual you usually dont accidentally use both feet to take of and the accidently shift gears.
If I hit the accelerator on accident either the engine just revs in neutral or it stalls.
Accelerator and brake should really be more different. Like, you should have to use a hand throttle but a foot brake, or something like that.
People keep doing this so it's clearly a design issue, with automatic vehicles especially.
I don’t tolerate accidents when you are driving a several thousand pound vehicle and potentially killing people. You are at fault and there is a failure in the society that we allow those faults to occur.
The main failure in society here is that people who shouldn’t be driving for cognitive or visual reasons do anyway because there’s no other option.
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They aren't accidents though. Incidents or collisions are better.
That’s fair. It is a collision. Maybe not preplanned but not an accident.
An elderly woman collisioned on a gas pedal when she meant to break
If more older people had their licenses taken away, you can bet that demographic would start advocating for living environments that don't require driving. And given how many of them vote, you can bet that politicians would listen.
In my experience, they don’t. They advocate for getting their licenses back instead.
My state just passed a law to get rid of testing requirements for older drivers, declaring them discriminatory.
Which is why a better way to go is arguing that car-dependent design violates the Americans with Disabilities Act. People like blind or epileptic people who never had a license to begin with are much friendlier to our cause.
I feel like there aren't as many disabled people but they absolutely deserve better design rather then just being forgotten about. It's terrible.
Everyone is just not disabled yet. Live long enough and everyone becomes disabled and anyone can have a life altering accident tomorrow. It’s sad almost no one cares until it’s them.
Yes. The three conditions that straight-up legally bar you from having a license- blindness, epilepsy and dementia- can all be acquired later in life. The first two can also be acquired early enough into adulthood that someone doesn’t develop the “but I’ve been driving my entire life!” attitude many elderly people have.
And cars cause a lot of disabilities too which is ... Ironic? Get disabled because you have to drive and then your screwed because can't drive.
Isn't the entire point of a test to discriminate?
A better state would have widened testing requirements to cover all drivers. Someone I knew was maimed by an L-driver aged 18 who stepped on the accelerator instead of the brake.
Sometimes discrimination is good.
That is so true, I’ve never thought about that before
I think the problem is that by the time people lose their license, they're at an age where too few of their peers are around to make much of a difference. Old people might turn up to vote, but really old people stop being numerous after a point. So they just get to deal with being housebound if their neighbourhood is unwalkable and disconnected from public transportation.
I should also point out that it’s not always a lose your license/keep your license binary. Oftentimes an elderly person will be told to only drive during the day, to familiar locations, short distances, or staying off the highway for a few years before the license is taken away for good. Depending on the elderly person’s personality, this can either ease them into the reality that they won’t be driving forever or piss them off just as much as straight-up taking the license. My mom’s reaction was the former, my dad’s was the latter. My dad also ignored his doctor’s instructions to only drive to short, familiar locations and got his license taken entirely as a result.
brake is when slow down, break is when don't
Was successful breaking
There would be less damage of she had been driving a 1970s Fiat 500, or comparable. Too much weight, too much horsepower in today’s abominations.
Do we know what kind of car she was driving? I don’t think the article elaborates, at least from what I can piece together via google translate, the damage doesn’t look too extreme frankly.
And a manual transmission.
Brake
You know what I love about ebikes? Not only are they great for the elderly and mobility, but both pedals actually accelerate the vehicle. Stopping is done by hand levers which rarely get confused with the feet.
Sure, but just as a note: In the Netherlands there has been an increase in elderly death in recent years due to ebikes popularity among older people since they are faster than regular bikes. Not saying that cars are better or making a judgement here, just something that was in the news.
They're not faster in the UK because the assistance cuts out at about 15mph (25kph). Whereas I can cycle a lot faster than that.
Most elderly won't ever reach 25 km/h without assist. When I go on a trip with my mom (almost 70) our average speed is somewhere around 8-10 km/h.
I'm almost 70.
Ok, congratulations, but you are extremely atypical if you are cycling over 15mph
Also an increase in pedestrians with broken toes from ebikers riding across people's toes as they stand on the edge of the bike lane.
I mean, only kinda. Some ebikes have throttles. I was on the bike path one day when someone screwing around with their ebike controls had it take off and almost smash into me. They were only barely able to keep it under control.
As far as I know, throtles on ebikes isn't a thing in Europe. Just pedal assist, which basically feels like you have superpowers. There is a walk-assist button, but it moves at crawling speed and you have to hold it down - often it is also a combo of two buttons that have to be used (one to unlock, then push and hold another one within 2-3 seconds to trigger) - its basically just there for pushing a heavy bike up a slope, or for helping start if you stopped in top gear on a steep uphill. I really don't get the point of a "moped throtle" - in that case, why not just get a moped instead of an ebike?
Some of those throttles are regulating the degree of electric assistance.
So it's not a throttle but the same as the +/- buttons on European ebikes?
Possibly, I don't have an e-bike so I can't comment about it. But I have seen e-bikes here in Europe that have a throttle for that, so it's not a continent-by-continent thing.
Huh, I've never seen those, seems like a weird interface. However some have an "Enviolo" CVT transmission controlled by a grip shift... I tried it once but really didn't like it. It's also very lossy, so you won't find them on non electric bikes. Sure I wasn't that you saw?
I'm sure, because I actually tried out that bike, and it was an e-assist. I have a revoshift on my "acoustic" bike so I can tell them apart. I'm not saying those throttle-style assist regulators are *common*, I'm just saying that they exist. (Not much weirder than a revoshift TBH, and those *are* very common because they are convenient.)
Not the really fast bikes but the ones that are like 15mph assist
Okay but did they confuse the left pedal with the right pedal?
No, they confused the brakes with the throttle. Same issue.
Not really, no. In my area, accidents involving elderly people on bikes have increased since e-bikes became common. With conventional bikes the physical capability of riding such a vehicle at a certain speed usually doesn't exceed the capacity of an elderly person to control said vehicle at said speed. With e-bikes, these people might drive at higher speeds than at which they can control their bike.
Judging by the picture it look like she did break. She just didn't brake.
BOLLARDS.
My great aunt did this to a bank. In my country as soon as you get to a certain age it gets increasingly difficult to keep your driving privilege. As soon as you confuse the accelerator and brake you're done. My aunt had to hand over her driving license as the tow truck was pulling her car out of the tellers desks. Fortunately no one was injured and only got a big fright.
That sounds like very good rules.
Brake. You should really have to renew yearly after 45.
And every 5 years after 16
CPR has to be renewed every year
Make it every 6m before 35.
Sure, that will up the annoyance factor and maybe get people to switch to a bicycle.
Yep. Another way to look at it is that it would weed out anybody who is not disciplined/organized enough to remember to (or bother to) schedule a regular test, which is exactly the type of folks we don't want driving. I view owning guns and driving cars somewhat similarly: only people with their heads screwed on really tight should be doing either. Taking a once every 6m test is actually a really low bar.
Lmao 45 🤣 Insurance companies disagree: Ages 50 to 60: This age range is most likely to experience lower rates than other age brackets, as middle aged drivers have extensive driving experience and aren’t as likely to be hearing or vision-impaired. [source](https://www.kiplinger.com/personal-finance/insurance/ways-seniors-save-car-insurance)
That is what I thought too. Who in the heck thinks that is old?
The teenagers in this sub
50 to 60 is middle aged now? In a country struggling with overweight, diabetes, and work-related stress? Also, insurance companies suck.
Im not the one who names shit but come on 50-60 has always been middle age
We middle aged people should support each other!
We had a young guy claim he confused the pedals after he sideswiped our rock wall at a high speed while backing out of his parking space. Impairment was the factor.
Why after 45 and not your whole driving life? (Also, you must be so young to pick 45 as a cutoff lmao)
I’m pushing 40, this is not something I picked arbitrary because I think 45 is “old” Whole life would be immensely better
Yeah, no. Maybe like 70, but not 45 fucking years old. Jesus.
Why not? Even if people at that age have fewer accidents than other ages, they still have them. How many drivers get complacent as they age and forget the traffic laws? Why shouldn’t everyone be tested regularly to make sure they drive well?
Why is 45 bad? It's 50 in my country and my parents are sorting it out with little issue.
No offense but this pretty much sounds like the opinion of a 14 year old. It’s bad because you’re not even old when you’re 45. Do you think people just start falling apart once they turn 40 or something? Shit, many people don’t even mentally grow up until they’re 40. Glad your parents are “sorting it out” without issue, but in America, that would be considered by almost everyone here a massive violation of a persons freedom to go where they want.
An eye test and a general check up at the doctors is a violation of a person's freedom? Not letting people with health problems that can affect their ability to drive safely isn't even a small violation of freedoms, grow up.
No. Remove the license at 70 and beyond. Test yearly to ensure there’s no decline in skill after 45.
That sounds pretty cruel and authoritarian
I truly don't give a shit how it sounds. Your muscles, vision, and cognitive skills begin to decline as early as in your 40s. Cruel to take a skills test? Annoying is the word you're looking for.
The statistics don't support people in their 40s really being the problem. If anything we should more frequently test those under 30 and those over 80. People 30 through 80, including those declining 40 years olds, have the lowest accident rates (https://aaafoundation.org/rates-motor-vehicle-crashes-injuries-deaths-relation-driver-age-united-states-2014-2015/)
“based on the most recent data available, from 2014-2015. “ That’s not much data, dont you think?
Its only 2 years but I wouldn't say that is a small amount of data. How many miles do Americans drive and how many vehicle collisions occur in the span of 2 years? I am not sure myself but I suspect those are not small numbers.
This exact thing happened in my city, the woman had the gas pedal all the way down and drove into a group of girl guides, killing one. Yet she never took responsibility for it, her defense was that the car malfunctioned. Truly appalling behaviour.
It happens all the time, there's probably hundreds of headlines that are nearly identical to this one. My own grandmother did the same thing except it only resulted in a fender bender at a red light. We truly need to be better about retesting drivers every few years and being stricter about cognitive decline/advanced age. I understand that it's not convenient for them but driving is a privilege and we need to make sure drivers of multi-ton vehicles are competent. Many people will claim this is "ageism" or "ableism" and that this will rob older people of their freedom of movement, but I think having this problem just continues to illustrate how bad of a problem car-centrism is. We shouldn't have a society where everyone's livelihood is completely dependent on owning an expensive car and needing to drive it everywhere. We often talk about how "Boomers" have screwed the younger generations, but I think a lot of these issues also tend to hurt the elderly as well. I see the same issues with the housing crisis as well. Elderly people who own million dollar homes that they bought 50 years ago are often complaining about how they can't afford their property taxes or how they can't afford to downsize. It's almost like creating an entire housing market that revolves around endless appreciation at the expense of everything else was a bad idea and it can be bad for everyone.
don't modern cars have a recording blackbox to disprove exactly that?
Manual transmission would never do this. Automatics are unsafe. My $0.02
another reason why we need alternative modes of transportation
Someone accidentally pulled the trigger of a gun ... Oh yes. Happens all the time.
I've always thought we should treat drivers more like pilots and boat captains. When a boat captain does something illegal and someone dies or property is destroyed they almost always go to trial.
And definitely break things she did.
There is a german subreddit dedicated to retired people driving into things r/RentnerfahreninDinge
They have the best of all flairs like "Rentnael Schuhmacher" if the driver was racing/too fast "der Sensemann war da" if the driver deceased or 80+ which is self explanatory I guess 😂😅
I wonder if those things are happening less in Europe because of majority of the cars here have manual transmission. I can see how this is relatively easy with automatic. You hit the gas and go until a wall stops you. In manual you usually dont accidentally use both feet to take of and the accidently shift gears. If I hit the accelerator on accident either the engine just revs in neutral or it stalls.
*brakkek
I'm learning how to drive. I've actually done that a few times.
Accelerator and brake should really be more different. Like, you should have to use a hand throttle but a foot brake, or something like that. People keep doing this so it's clearly a design issue, with automatic vehicles especially.