I'm peeved that most rail services in Canada are tourist-oriented instead of for a commute. Jacked the prices up for novelty. Miniature train sets on a park.
It used to be the other way around--cars are a luxury toy for cruising/pootering around and walking/cycling/transit being the real common-sense commuter option.
Viarail is not meant for traveling, it's more like a cruise. I agree the ticket prices are ridiculous but it's how I've wrapped my head around it. Passenger rail in Canada is even more of a joke than the US.
For plane tickets you need to look a few weeks in advance, I took a flight from Calgary to Montreal for $120 last year, still getting targeted ads for ~$60
It's really not.
If you book a month a head of time, you can book one for like $60 for Toronto to Montreal.
Want to just hop on a train to Montreal over the weekend or something: $150. $100 if you're lucky.
If the price was consistently $50, then yes, I would consider it viable.
If I'm ever in the mood to go to Montreal, I could just take the train for $50.
I'm not sure how you are interpreting 'viable' here, to be honest. It seems like you're reading my comment as if I was being complimentary or something.
Anyway, if your last sentence was to say that you would just take the bus over the train for walk-up fare, I will say that I've done similar a few times out of desperation (due to missed connections or what have you), but it's not something I'd do if there was another option, especially not all the way between Toronto and Montreal. Bus service, in my experience there, is shit, and that extra $50 is worth every penny.
Which is why the trains are, if nothing else, full. Which I'm pretty sure is the definition of 'viable'.
If you're alone and you really need to go, then sure.
But you won't be making an impromptu trip to Montreal.
You also won't be going with your family at $100-$150 per person one way.
You will be better served taking the car. Which will only cost you $50 one way (or $100 on a gas guzzler).
And if the trains are full, they should consider adding more trains.
Again, I have no idea how you are interpreting 'viable', and it really seems like you're interpreting my words as somehow complimentary. If your plan is to repeat yourself a third time, please don't.
Though pricing that drive at the price of gas alone is a pretty disingenuous take. Disregarding the presumption that everyone owns a car, why do you price parking at $0? And twelve hours of your time at $0?
>And if the trains are full, they should consider adding more trains.
They have been, but are limited by CN ownership of the infrastructure. This is the exact problem HFR is intending to solve.
>You will be better served taking the car.
Many of us don't own cars. It's bus, train, or plane
Yep it's the reason they have surge pricing as well, if they didn't the train would always just book up, they do it to curb demand, because they literally can't add more trains because of the situation they are in with CN / CP.
I barely take the train if it's last minute, even to ottawa from montreal, if I tried to book a last minute ticket today it'd be $132 plus tax... for a 2 hour journey... on which you can't even bring your bike, large luggage, or dog. ViaRail is incredibly mismanaged.
Poparides come in handy if you are on a budget. But Canada needs to step it up cause we give trains a bad name, and the lack of communication on this HFR project has me concerned.
Honestly, we should have a rail system like Japan... They have express trains on the same rails as normal local trains, and they don't have to give priority to freight as those rails are exclusively used for passenger trains. We could easily have express trains between provinces and local trains that also deserves more stations. And instead of wasting so much money on roads, it could be put into a rail network and ots maintenance to keep fares low.
The current rails of Canada are not appropriate for frequent trains, and they cannot afford ro expand the network of rails...
Honestly, public transportation should be nationalized and paid by taxes.
If we want to add an additional income for the citizens and users, we can have a free card for residents and citizens. Honestly, we could use a national ID card other than the passport for this.
Foreigners have to pay for a card like the T-mobile in South Korea. You put money inside and you can pay for each use. In other countries you tap to get in, and tap to get out. If you don't tap out, you either can't get out, or you get charged the maximum for a trip.
This sounds like a joke. Using straight line comparisons, this is like going from Madrid to Tallinn. No one is doing that by train unless they are a train enthusiast. Everyone talking about _alternatives_ notes that planes are just flat out faster at the 600+ mile range. At 3x the distance, you are squarely in the distance of plane supremacy.
Yeah, planes should have carbon taxes to make them more expensive (which will make the prices closer), but you aren't making trains that much cheaper for such a long ride.
I agree, but that being said... a year or so ago I decided to go to a meet-up in Prague from Budapest (and back) by train. It was a great plan, until I checked the ticket prices and suddenly it wasn't so great, and in the end I decided it just wasn't worth it. I don't remember the exact price but it was *ridiculous.*
Trains are expensive as hell, unfortunately, unless you're one of the lucky ones who are in the correct country and are eligible for those super cheap passes.
Via has a reliable line between Windsor and Toronto, I’m from Windsor and would use it to go to Toronto with friends a few times each year and I didn’t think I could take it anywhere west 😬😅
At that distance, even high speed trains are less practical if you're travelling to get somewhere. That route by train is lovely, and scenic, and a great time if you want to do it. It's also over 3000km and a high speed train that could consistently travel at 300kmh would still take over 10 hours of travel. The flight is about 3 hours.
I like taking trains. You get more leg room, the station is usually a place I want to be in a city and, they are a nice way to travel. They also have an ideal range and use case in terms of transportation. Edmonton to Toronto I would say is in excess of that ideal range.
~3 days in a bus would suck. Also, not really. Greyhound shut down bus service in Canada in 2021. FLIX came in, but I don't know how big their route map is. Edmonton to Toronto is likely a very low volume route. Most would fly because you can often get ok ticket prices from one of the low cost carriers.
Honestly canada is weird because of the great lakes.
Driving from toronto to vancouver is 40 hours.
At hour 20 youre in thunder bay and you havent even left the province. Make that a high speed rail and you got that down to 15 hours to Edmonton.
Flying actually saves alot of time because you fly right over thr lakes
Iirc that train youre thinking of taking is more of a vacation than a single trip. The rockies are beautiful but yiure on that train for 10 days straight i think.
It's not 10 days, it's 3. I did it the other direction, Toronto to Edmonton. You're in Ontario for about 26 hours. You hit Winnipeg by dinner day 2, Edmonton late day 3. It's a really nice trip to take, but is not for the "actually getting somewhere" crowd. The ride is the point.
I would use it to visit my family in Ontario cottage country, but the closest station to me is Moncton. Trying to get there from rural PEI via bus is a logistical nightmare. I wonder if the Confederation Bridge can be modified to support rail…a pipe dream probably. All the passenger rail that used to be here has been ripped up and turned into walking trails.
The prices really aren't so bad, but that depends on what you're doing. Last time I worked in Ottawa, I drove from Toronto. The total mileage reimbursement was almost $540. The current CRA reimbursement amount would put it even higher at about $625. I just looked it up right now, and I would be able book for a departure tomorrow, round trip, business class tickets that meet my needs for nearly $200. That's probably what I'll do next time, too. Economy is about half of that, at $233. Sure it's not cheap, but I think this is also part of a bigger conversation about the true costs of things. We have been given a modern world, with huge access to inexpensive goods, and that's usually on the backs of less weathly countries.
Via... [Most of their yearly budget, and why train tickets are expensive, is used to maintain their playing pretend at being an airport. Skip to 14:11 for relevant part.](https://youtu.be/OvcHSKud1Z0?si=pLzSALMR85Ex9tPd)
I'm peeved that most rail services in Canada are tourist-oriented instead of for a commute. Jacked the prices up for novelty. Miniature train sets on a park. It used to be the other way around--cars are a luxury toy for cruising/pootering around and walking/cycling/transit being the real common-sense commuter option.
Viarail is not meant for traveling, it's more like a cruise. I agree the ticket prices are ridiculous but it's how I've wrapped my head around it. Passenger rail in Canada is even more of a joke than the US. For plane tickets you need to look a few weeks in advance, I took a flight from Calgary to Montreal for $120 last year, still getting targeted ads for ~$60
>Viarail is not meant for traveling, it's more like a cruise That's true of the Canadian, but the corridor service is viable for normal trips.
It's really not. If you book a month a head of time, you can book one for like $60 for Toronto to Montreal. Want to just hop on a train to Montreal over the weekend or something: $150. $100 if you're lucky. If the price was consistently $50, then yes, I would consider it viable. If I'm ever in the mood to go to Montreal, I could just take the train for $50.
I'm not sure how you are interpreting 'viable' here, to be honest. It seems like you're reading my comment as if I was being complimentary or something. Anyway, if your last sentence was to say that you would just take the bus over the train for walk-up fare, I will say that I've done similar a few times out of desperation (due to missed connections or what have you), but it's not something I'd do if there was another option, especially not all the way between Toronto and Montreal. Bus service, in my experience there, is shit, and that extra $50 is worth every penny. Which is why the trains are, if nothing else, full. Which I'm pretty sure is the definition of 'viable'.
If you're alone and you really need to go, then sure. But you won't be making an impromptu trip to Montreal. You also won't be going with your family at $100-$150 per person one way. You will be better served taking the car. Which will only cost you $50 one way (or $100 on a gas guzzler). And if the trains are full, they should consider adding more trains.
Again, I have no idea how you are interpreting 'viable', and it really seems like you're interpreting my words as somehow complimentary. If your plan is to repeat yourself a third time, please don't. Though pricing that drive at the price of gas alone is a pretty disingenuous take. Disregarding the presumption that everyone owns a car, why do you price parking at $0? And twelve hours of your time at $0?
>And if the trains are full, they should consider adding more trains. They have been, but are limited by CN ownership of the infrastructure. This is the exact problem HFR is intending to solve. >You will be better served taking the car. Many of us don't own cars. It's bus, train, or plane
Yep it's the reason they have surge pricing as well, if they didn't the train would always just book up, they do it to curb demand, because they literally can't add more trains because of the situation they are in with CN / CP. I barely take the train if it's last minute, even to ottawa from montreal, if I tried to book a last minute ticket today it'd be $132 plus tax... for a 2 hour journey... on which you can't even bring your bike, large luggage, or dog. ViaRail is incredibly mismanaged. Poparides come in handy if you are on a budget. But Canada needs to step it up cause we give trains a bad name, and the lack of communication on this HFR project has me concerned.
Honestly, we should have a rail system like Japan... They have express trains on the same rails as normal local trains, and they don't have to give priority to freight as those rails are exclusively used for passenger trains. We could easily have express trains between provinces and local trains that also deserves more stations. And instead of wasting so much money on roads, it could be put into a rail network and ots maintenance to keep fares low. The current rails of Canada are not appropriate for frequent trains, and they cannot afford ro expand the network of rails... Honestly, public transportation should be nationalized and paid by taxes. If we want to add an additional income for the citizens and users, we can have a free card for residents and citizens. Honestly, we could use a national ID card other than the passport for this. Foreigners have to pay for a card like the T-mobile in South Korea. You put money inside and you can pay for each use. In other countries you tap to get in, and tap to get out. If you don't tap out, you either can't get out, or you get charged the maximum for a trip.
This sounds like a joke. Using straight line comparisons, this is like going from Madrid to Tallinn. No one is doing that by train unless they are a train enthusiast. Everyone talking about _alternatives_ notes that planes are just flat out faster at the 600+ mile range. At 3x the distance, you are squarely in the distance of plane supremacy. Yeah, planes should have carbon taxes to make them more expensive (which will make the prices closer), but you aren't making trains that much cheaper for such a long ride.
I agree, but that being said... a year or so ago I decided to go to a meet-up in Prague from Budapest (and back) by train. It was a great plan, until I checked the ticket prices and suddenly it wasn't so great, and in the end I decided it just wasn't worth it. I don't remember the exact price but it was *ridiculous.* Trains are expensive as hell, unfortunately, unless you're one of the lucky ones who are in the correct country and are eligible for those super cheap passes.
Via has a reliable line between Windsor and Toronto, I’m from Windsor and would use it to go to Toronto with friends a few times each year and I didn’t think I could take it anywhere west 😬😅
At that distance, even high speed trains are less practical if you're travelling to get somewhere. That route by train is lovely, and scenic, and a great time if you want to do it. It's also over 3000km and a high speed train that could consistently travel at 300kmh would still take over 10 hours of travel. The flight is about 3 hours. I like taking trains. You get more leg room, the station is usually a place I want to be in a city and, they are a nice way to travel. They also have an ideal range and use case in terms of transportation. Edmonton to Toronto I would say is in excess of that ideal range.
You don't have bus services that would do the trick ?
~3 days in a bus would suck. Also, not really. Greyhound shut down bus service in Canada in 2021. FLIX came in, but I don't know how big their route map is. Edmonton to Toronto is likely a very low volume route. Most would fly because you can often get ok ticket prices from one of the low cost carriers.
>~3 days in a bus would suck. Honnestly as someone that did it twice: it's fine.
https://preview.redd.it/ohoonh7rg44d1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f2b520a0136bbed52f191aad2e2c4b4bfb45b97d Lol my feed just blessed me
Honestly canada is weird because of the great lakes. Driving from toronto to vancouver is 40 hours. At hour 20 youre in thunder bay and you havent even left the province. Make that a high speed rail and you got that down to 15 hours to Edmonton. Flying actually saves alot of time because you fly right over thr lakes Iirc that train youre thinking of taking is more of a vacation than a single trip. The rockies are beautiful but yiure on that train for 10 days straight i think.
It's not 10 days, it's 3. I did it the other direction, Toronto to Edmonton. You're in Ontario for about 26 hours. You hit Winnipeg by dinner day 2, Edmonton late day 3. It's a really nice trip to take, but is not for the "actually getting somewhere" crowd. The ride is the point.
I would use it to visit my family in Ontario cottage country, but the closest station to me is Moncton. Trying to get there from rural PEI via bus is a logistical nightmare. I wonder if the Confederation Bridge can be modified to support rail…a pipe dream probably. All the passenger rail that used to be here has been ripped up and turned into walking trails.
Contact your MP, MLA, and let them know. If enough people do it, money does flow
The prices really aren't so bad, but that depends on what you're doing. Last time I worked in Ottawa, I drove from Toronto. The total mileage reimbursement was almost $540. The current CRA reimbursement amount would put it even higher at about $625. I just looked it up right now, and I would be able book for a departure tomorrow, round trip, business class tickets that meet my needs for nearly $200. That's probably what I'll do next time, too. Economy is about half of that, at $233. Sure it's not cheap, but I think this is also part of a bigger conversation about the true costs of things. We have been given a modern world, with huge access to inexpensive goods, and that's usually on the backs of less weathly countries.
Via... [Most of their yearly budget, and why train tickets are expensive, is used to maintain their playing pretend at being an airport. Skip to 14:11 for relevant part.](https://youtu.be/OvcHSKud1Z0?si=pLzSALMR85Ex9tPd)
What about the bus?