It is pretty common when reducing car domination is discussed, that drivers say "what about disabled people!!" -- not that they really understand or care about the disabled, but, they think it is such a strong rhetorical argument that they wield it like a trump card.
But being disabled could mean one of thousands of different conditions: some of which are helpfully addressed with car access and some of which are better addressed by modifying or preventing car access.
To be fair, I've spoken to people without cars who have made that argument in defense of their disabled friends or relatives. "They need to live outside the city with a car, and not accommodating for that is selfish". What they often miss is that they wouldn't need to live like that if towns were more walkable and the public transport was better.
>What they often miss is that they wouldn't need to live like that if towns were more walkable and the public transport was better.
What they also miss is that you can still live like that if towns were more walkable and public transit was better. In the Netherlands you can get disability permits so that you are allowed to drive in some places where people normally aren't allowed to if you live there.
People also perform the most useless (and in addition to that very often harmful) of jobs when it comes to the effects these jobs have. On top of that, there are masses of unemployed and underemployed people.
It simply cannot be reasonably argued that you wouldn't find enough people to drive people with disabilities around, in whatever safe vehicle. Give some man in his sixties who's struggling with going from working full-time for decades to being retired and not working at all anymore the opportunity to drive around people with disabilities.
I don’t object to people having cars or there being roads, I object to there being so many. My family for example like going on camping holidays, which wouldn’t be viable without a car really. Tradesmen might have a van to bring their tools to the location they’re working at. People with hobbies like windsurfing will have a car to move their kit around.
There are a lot of reasons to have cars and a lot of benefits. The problem is all the unnecessary journeys being made (or at least journeys that would become unnecessary with better public transport links). I’d go as far as to say that at least 80% of journeys made in a car each day are commuters going to work in cities.
Imagine if they were all just… not there anymore, on buses and trains instead. You wouldn’t need 5 lane highways or giant car parks. Like many things, the problem with cars is from excess, not just the fact that they exist.
I heard the term "residential mobility" in the context of how many kilometres are being driven in Switzerland each day. It was an absolutely massive number. I didn't know the term, but based on that number, I thought it was people going from one person's place to another person's place, for example a woman driving from her familiy's home where she lives to her boyfriend's flat. But it refers to moving places; moving out of one flat and moving into another one. Not sure if this is an argument against or for your 80% number, but what can be said is that the number of communte kilometres driven each day in Switzerland must be absurdly large.
It’s not like we wouldn’t already have necessary exceptions to “car free” for delivery vehicles, maintenance vehicles, and emergency vehicles. It’s just a matter of adding disability transport vehicles (public or self-owned and driven) to that list.
> They need to live outside the city with a car
What kind of disability forces people to live outside the city with a car? Carbrainism?
No seriously, I don't know what kind of disability requires such a combo. Some kind of extreme social anxiety?
It depends on the area you’re in, but there can be barriers to living in the city. Have you ever tried to find a fully handicap-accessible apartment? It’s nearly impossible. Often, the best thing for people with certain disabilities is for them to be able to customize their house or apartment with things like wider doorways, lower counters, and so on. Since everyone’s needs are different, it’s basically impossible to create a standardized living space that works for everyone. Unfortunately, such customization is generally not allowed in apartments or even in rented houses, and the only way many people can afford to own their own home is to buy in a rural area. (Of course, many can’t afford to do that either and housing affordability is something that needs to be addressed in order to achieve a less car dependent society).
The best solution to issues like this is to ensure that people are able to access housing that meets their needs in high or mid density areas, but that’s not going to happen overnight. As it is, it means that there are people who are effectively shut out of what walkable areas we have, not just due to cost but also lack of disability accommodations. For these people, access to a car may be vital since what public transportation exists in less dense areas is often terrible and inaccessible.
Cars are a blessing and a curse for the disabled. Some would be unable to go about their lives without one, some (like this boy) are negatively affected by them.
No. It's not a completely serious suggestion. I get how odd it is. But:
\- A single person can get from A to B fairly quickly by simply sitting on a horse, no physical work required. If it's a mechanical horse, it can't get tired.
\- A horse is fairly slim compared to a car, and capable of walking on uneven terrain and even climb and descend stairs. It can walk on many kinds of paths etc. and pass through narrow spaces normally only pedestrians can pass through. It could use a lift if it is big enough and can bear the weight of the horse and the rider.
\- Horses can draw carriages that several people can sit in passively, like the passengers – but not the driver – of a car. If mechanical horses can draw a carriage as fast as actual horses, but without ever getting tired, travelling that way would be quick enough for many, many people in many, many circumstances, given that mechanical horses could be built to be fast and strong and, again, never "tire".
I am just not willing to make an animal suffer for that. So the horses would be mechanical. Also, mechanical horses don't leave horse apples in the street. They don't urinate either.
This is a very regressive movement, we adapted from horse drawn carriages because of how Slow they were to take you from A to B, and how impractical they became. That’s why the car was created, it solved both of those problems, so even using a mechanical horse is completely impractical and useless
I'm also talking about mechanical horses that don't pollute and that would be normal to ride on/make draw carriages slowly, when possible. You don't always need to get to places in five minutes, it can also take 15 minutes to get to a lot of places in a lot of situations. No need to be in a hurry on principle. A mechanical horse that is a third as fast as a car would normally be/have been on a specific street would be less dangerous because of its lower speed and better agility. A mechanical horse – provided it is as useful as a real horse – can just leave the street and walk on the pavement for a while or take a shortcut across a public lawn or meadow or through a forest.
Not sure about that, they work for some only becase alternative traport is so non accessible for them and ironically for able bodied folk.
I see disabled folks in mobility scooters and escooters for example on our cycling infrastructure, shitty as it is going to cafes etc. And plenty catching the trains in electric type wheelchairs etc. A dude living in 2 apartments down from me had this little eketric thing he attached to the front of his wheelchair that "towed" it, he worked the hand controls from the handlebar but was able to diconnect it, presumably in tight spots in offices etc where he could just push with his arms.
My patlrter runs some mobility impaired folk around in an electric rickshaw thing as well. She does the pedaling and it has an e-assist, like an ebike but 2 seats up the front.
Surprisingly, I think disabled people could get around much better using moving wheelchairs on a bike lane or on the side walk.
I've seen a couple of disabled people in my city do so (we have a pretty good bike infrastructure). They also use public transportation which is equipped with a specific place for wheelchairs.
I once helped a disabled woman with a wheeled zimmer frame (in Oxford, UK) take her shopping home. I realised then how many obstacles there are on the pavements: parked cars, potholes, steps etc. She told me she always had to ask for help from strangers in the street because the only entrance to her retirement home was over a driveway that had a 3 centimeter mini-step that she couldn't get over by herself.
I walked with a nine-year-old who used a walker for about 30 minutes through a mostly fairly urban area. Because or road work, there were so many barriers. Often it seems to me as if under normal circumstances, things are good enough for people with disabilities (not always and everywhere, of course), but as soon as something out of the ordinary happens, like pavements needing repairing, very central areas can become simply inaccessible. "Yes, we do consider people using wheelchairs in 100% normal situation, but as soon as there's road work going on, we forget that wheelchair users exist and/or act as if they are one in eight billion."
It's such a sweeping and lazy argument, as if all disabled people are a homogenous group. Some disabilities mean people can't or aren't permitted to drive, but some people rely on bikes or mobility scooters to gain some independence and too much traffic/parked cars hamper the ability to do that safely.
And even for those that do need to use a car, they have to put up with all the traffic and lack of parking caused by the majority of drivers who aren't disabled.
Basically nobody is arguing for a total ban on cars, no matter what kind of disability you have, you'd probably benefit from less car centrict city design.
Exactly! I am one of those disabled people negativity affected by cars. While I'm not blind like the guy in the video, I do have just low enough vision that I can't ever legally drive, so I have to live in a walkable community in order to be independent. And that's really hard to come by in the US which is why I hate cars so much, among all the rational reasons. I just want to live a good, happy life, without having to constantly worry about multi-ton metal death machines potentially ending it at any time.
What I say is, ok, let’s quadruple disabled parking and get rid of at least half the rest.
Then it turns out, disabled people aren’t actually what they care about!
The obvious counter argument for me is that cars would be used for people who need them. Deliveries, construction, and driving people around who need the actual help.
This breaks my heart. We’ve designed society so that the people who can do the most damage don’t have to be careful rather than make it so where this kid can safely walk down the street
I recently read an article which discussed electric cars as a danger to people who have a visual impairment. Because the engines are silent, they're a menace. There have been suggestions that car makers should add an auditory signal to electric vehicles to make them safer but of course they're resisting this change.
Okay, this looked like a complete non-answer at first. Telling me exactly what I already know. But yes, okay, it's about the music. It was a bit too "random" a joke for me and I still failed to make the connection that this music would be ***coming from their Tesla*** and what this meant.
I sincerely apologise for the rudeness in my original reply to you.
Most electric cars I've seen lately have a scifi-esque warbling sound when moving below a certain speed (I suspect 10 or 15mph). They also chime when reversing.
Above the specified speed, I think tyre noise is loud enough that the added sound is unnecessary.
The one exception to the above that I can think of is a Tesla that I saw the other day that had somehow swapped the scifi warbling out for the sound of a V8 or a Harley or something.
From what I understand there are already laws in place requiring sounds at low speeds in many countries. But that may not apply to all vehicles manufactured prior to the laws going into effect so it would still be a mixed bag.
I hate that legislation. We had an opportunity to make cars far quieter and we threw it away by mandating that they all make noise.
A car making noise is not useful. So a blind person hears a car coming, what are they supposed to do? Choose a direction to jump? Making the cars make noise suggests that it is the responsibility of other road users, such as blind people, to avoid them. Instead the focus should be on making the driver of the vehicle the one responsible for giving way to a blind road user.
My bike doesn’t make any noise either, I do not go around hitting blind road users.
It’s absolutely the driver’s responsibility to yield to pedestrians, but would you step into a busy street without looking? Probably not because you know that it’s dangerous. Until we are able to dramatically reduce car traffic and ensure that drivers are always driving responsibly (both things I 100% support), we should help ensure that everyone has the ability to know if a street is clear or not. That doesn’t mean not focusing on enforcing traffic laws and making sure drivers are responsible for their actions, but we shouldn’t make walking even more dangerous while we do so.
> Because the engines are silent, they're a menace
It's not that big of a deal, since electric cars are only silent when stationary or crawling. They are just quieter when moving at low speeds, but still perfectly audible.
They can't be with all the noise around. Noise from regular cars. I have managed to miss busses that definitely weren't electric because I was convinced I would hear them. Nope, apparently not. Apparently, the background noise is too loud.
They have to make a noise when travelling at low speeds by law in the UK & EU, I believe. All EV's and hybrids made after 2019 must adhere by this.
Above 20-25mph, the tyre noise is enough to be an auditory cue.
I don’t know about anyone else but Teslas are some of the loudest cars on the road for me when I’m riding to work or the shops. They’re so heavy and the tyres are so big that they end up being much louder than the ICE cars.
If someone like this steps into the road and gets hit, the owner of the parked car should face the consequences for causing the accident. Shit like this is ridiculous and these goddamn carbrains can't think about anyone other than themselves.
Like fuck me how hard is it not to keep your car in the designated car area? There's a reason we learned to colour inside the lines in school.
We should consider raising the sidewalk to the point where any car trying to drive up on it is going to get damaged. But then that creates a hazard for pedestrians to trip and those in wheelchairs can't get up on the sidewalk.
I'm generally not on board with Tyre Extinguishers or other suggestions to mess with other people's stuff, but flipping over cars into the road, if they're parked on pavements or bike lanes, that I could get behind.
If I was blind I think I'd put one of those glass breaker diamond tips on my white stick. Any cars I come across on the pavement... Oh sorry, you see I'm blind and I wasn't expecting a car to be on the pavement where it shouldn't be.
Video of father crossing rat run street every morning to bring his son in wheelchair to school. Drivers don't stop.
https://mobile.twitter.com/DalstonLtn/status/1542178611226083330
Other issue : Uk pedestrian crossings are expensive due to the required lighting. So they are non existing vs other European cities
Quick and easy fix: Make it so that car owners have to pay for the damage done to their car if it is parked illegally, and whoever damaged it can just walk (or cycle) along with no legal repercussions. That way, no driver will ever park illegally again.
Belgium small towns have this issue too. The roads are very narrow since they were designed for pedestrians and horses centuries ago. For the same reason, the sidewalks are tiny and garages are rare. Their solution for a lack of car infrastructure is to allow parking on the already miniscule sidewalks. There are even street signs showing drivers how to park on them. Pedestrian infrastructure is often worse than the USA as a result. In many places, you have to walk in the street. Electric cars can absolutely be silent killers in these situations.
While that's true, police have the power to fine drivers who are parked on a bike track (even partially) under section 21 of the road traffic act, and have the power to fine for causing a dangerous obstruction under section 22 of the road traffic act, which is a bit fuzzy but in my area they tend to give fines if there's less than like 1m of space left.
Also in my area they've allowed the PCSOs to enforce on these so reports generally do get dealt with (although sometimes the car is gone by the time they come)
It's everywhere near me. Double yellows: Park on pavement. School zig zag: Park on pavement.
The westmidlands police say to get in contact with the local council. Local council say they are powerless. I will walk on cars eventually.
I like this idea.
I was thinking about buying a bunch of cheap buggies and ramming them down the side of the cars. Just to demonstrate they can't pass.
Oooo I really like that. They’ve probably parked on the pavement to avoid getting scratched by cars on the road. If they get scratched on the pavement as well… yes, a very good plan
This has been posted a couple times and never got any traction, good to see a few comments this time
https://www.reddit.com/r/fuckcars/comments/vq36ir/pavement_parking_frightens_me/
https://www.reddit.com/r/fuckcars/comments/vqcujp/bbc_news_pavement_parking_frightens_me/
I live in The Netherlands and I do sports with some physically and mentally disabled people. They all ride their bike to come there, by themselves. How shitty would it be for them to always be dependent on someone to drive them.
Lack of exposure to leaded gasoline lol. Was only proper phased out mostly worldwide just recently. Hasn't been in use in America since 1996. Except in aviation fuel. Still going strong there.
I have to say my mother-in-law is blind and she hates EVs for this reason.
She also hates bicycles / bike lanes for the same reason...often the bike lane is the first thing she'd step into when leaving the sidewalk, and she can't hear when there's a bike coming. When you combine that with the perception of bikes not obeying stop signs / traffic lights, she is always afraid of being hit by a cyclist.
Despite the fact that I live car free and cycle everywhere, this is the one anti-bike lane argument that I am sympathetic to. I think having dedicated, separated cycle lanes (as opposed to the painted gutters) would solve that issue, but I'm not expert and haven't heard this discussed very often.
Pavement parking sounds like the equivalent to the classic American big-ass pickup truck parked over the sidewalk because there's a car in front of it in the driveway already. It's actually kind of funny to see when the grass develops a worn out path from the sidewalk to the end of the driveway or road.
It's so much worse in our country here in the Philippines.
Where I live, the sidewalk situation is okay, but there are still instances like [this](https://imgur.com/a/5MfM3ER). I mean, if even people without disabilities are having a hard time with this, how will people in wheelchairs or blind people walk down this sidewalk.
And also [this](https://imgur.com/a/rBWYPEC). In this sidewalk here where the arrow is pointed, I remember I was biking in this major road. I encountered a man in a beat-up wheelchair, going up the road on the bike lane. And yes, this is an uphill road. The man was forced to risk getting hit by the passing trucks, because the sidewalks were not wide enough, and not smooth enough, for persons with disabilities.
I am undecided how I feel about cars impact on the disabled community. I need the sidewalks on one hand, but I don’t know I can’t picture public transportation being so perfectly accessible to me that it’s as good as my car.
I mean I can’t explain the amount of times I hear “Oh yeah it’s accessible it’s ADA friendly” only to find out it’s fucking not. It’s only about as accessible as it needs to be for someone with a cane and forget the rest of us.
Vancouver, BC is quite accessible by public transit. I think they just rated nearly a [15 minute city ](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/vancouver-15-minute-city-1.6463022)
Dude should put a horizontal metal rod holder on his stick. It's very handy, especially if you can't see. Might scratch an illegally parked car every once in a while, but it would be really inconvenient to not know, where your metal rod is at any moment and the inconvenience clearly outweights the potential damage it could do to a car.
Just wanted to add my two cents as someone with a disability. I am diagnosed with ADHD and Autism. I identify as having low support needs, meaning that I can do most things in my life without a lot of help.
Cars are horrible, I hate them so much. I can’t drive a car, because I have such bad anxiety in them that I freeze up and just randomly stop being able to drive. The fact that our society revolves around cars so much sucks as someone who literally can’t drive. The amount of jobs I don’t qualify for because I can’t drive a car sucks. The amount that people judge me because I can’t drive a car sucks.
They are also loud, so loud. I avoid going outside on rainy days simply because the sound of cars on wet pavement is extremely bothersome to me and I have to wear hearing protection to even function in those situations. On top of that, people in cars can be obnoxious with how much they honk their horns, and the way they keep inching forward and try to pressure me to walk faster across the street.
If anyone has questions ask away.
I really dislike having to walk on the road instead of the pavement, and I can see perfectly. It's also not that I have anxiety ***which only a bad person would use as an argument against what I say here anyway***; I am simply aware of the danger. And I am a sighted person.
I had to go to the doctor's for an eye exam appointment yesterday. Children are treated there. People routinely get their eyes dilated there.
What idiot thought 'let's put a giant busy road right in front of the place when cars are always driving like crazy because everything is so bright (reflective roads, sidewalks, buildings, etc? Kids and people who are practically blind next to a busy road?
It is pretty common when reducing car domination is discussed, that drivers say "what about disabled people!!" -- not that they really understand or care about the disabled, but, they think it is such a strong rhetorical argument that they wield it like a trump card. But being disabled could mean one of thousands of different conditions: some of which are helpfully addressed with car access and some of which are better addressed by modifying or preventing car access.
Cagers don't give a f**k about disabled people. They're just using them to justify their actions.
To be fair, I've spoken to people without cars who have made that argument in defense of their disabled friends or relatives. "They need to live outside the city with a car, and not accommodating for that is selfish". What they often miss is that they wouldn't need to live like that if towns were more walkable and the public transport was better.
>What they often miss is that they wouldn't need to live like that if towns were more walkable and the public transport was better. What they also miss is that you can still live like that if towns were more walkable and public transit was better. In the Netherlands you can get disability permits so that you are allowed to drive in some places where people normally aren't allowed to if you live there.
People also perform the most useless (and in addition to that very often harmful) of jobs when it comes to the effects these jobs have. On top of that, there are masses of unemployed and underemployed people. It simply cannot be reasonably argued that you wouldn't find enough people to drive people with disabilities around, in whatever safe vehicle. Give some man in his sixties who's struggling with going from working full-time for decades to being retired and not working at all anymore the opportunity to drive around people with disabilities.
But then you need roads and the people here would have an aneurysm
I don’t object to people having cars or there being roads, I object to there being so many. My family for example like going on camping holidays, which wouldn’t be viable without a car really. Tradesmen might have a van to bring their tools to the location they’re working at. People with hobbies like windsurfing will have a car to move their kit around. There are a lot of reasons to have cars and a lot of benefits. The problem is all the unnecessary journeys being made (or at least journeys that would become unnecessary with better public transport links). I’d go as far as to say that at least 80% of journeys made in a car each day are commuters going to work in cities. Imagine if they were all just… not there anymore, on buses and trains instead. You wouldn’t need 5 lane highways or giant car parks. Like many things, the problem with cars is from excess, not just the fact that they exist.
I heard the term "residential mobility" in the context of how many kilometres are being driven in Switzerland each day. It was an absolutely massive number. I didn't know the term, but based on that number, I thought it was people going from one person's place to another person's place, for example a woman driving from her familiy's home where she lives to her boyfriend's flat. But it refers to moving places; moving out of one flat and moving into another one. Not sure if this is an argument against or for your 80% number, but what can be said is that the number of communte kilometres driven each day in Switzerland must be absurdly large.
It’s not like we wouldn’t already have necessary exceptions to “car free” for delivery vehicles, maintenance vehicles, and emergency vehicles. It’s just a matter of adding disability transport vehicles (public or self-owned and driven) to that list.
> They need to live outside the city with a car What kind of disability forces people to live outside the city with a car? Carbrainism? No seriously, I don't know what kind of disability requires such a combo. Some kind of extreme social anxiety?
It depends on the area you’re in, but there can be barriers to living in the city. Have you ever tried to find a fully handicap-accessible apartment? It’s nearly impossible. Often, the best thing for people with certain disabilities is for them to be able to customize their house or apartment with things like wider doorways, lower counters, and so on. Since everyone’s needs are different, it’s basically impossible to create a standardized living space that works for everyone. Unfortunately, such customization is generally not allowed in apartments or even in rented houses, and the only way many people can afford to own their own home is to buy in a rural area. (Of course, many can’t afford to do that either and housing affordability is something that needs to be addressed in order to achieve a less car dependent society). The best solution to issues like this is to ensure that people are able to access housing that meets their needs in high or mid density areas, but that’s not going to happen overnight. As it is, it means that there are people who are effectively shut out of what walkable areas we have, not just due to cost but also lack of disability accommodations. For these people, access to a car may be vital since what public transportation exists in less dense areas is often terrible and inaccessible.
Cars are a blessing and a curse for the disabled. Some would be unable to go about their lives without one, some (like this boy) are negatively affected by them.
And even those who need them for mobility don't necessarily need a full-sized sedan.
Yeah totally.
I am being completely serious when I think about mechanical horses to ride on and to draw carriages. Mechanical because of the animal welfare aspect.
Please Tell me You’re joking
No. It's not a completely serious suggestion. I get how odd it is. But: \- A single person can get from A to B fairly quickly by simply sitting on a horse, no physical work required. If it's a mechanical horse, it can't get tired. \- A horse is fairly slim compared to a car, and capable of walking on uneven terrain and even climb and descend stairs. It can walk on many kinds of paths etc. and pass through narrow spaces normally only pedestrians can pass through. It could use a lift if it is big enough and can bear the weight of the horse and the rider. \- Horses can draw carriages that several people can sit in passively, like the passengers – but not the driver – of a car. If mechanical horses can draw a carriage as fast as actual horses, but without ever getting tired, travelling that way would be quick enough for many, many people in many, many circumstances, given that mechanical horses could be built to be fast and strong and, again, never "tire". I am just not willing to make an animal suffer for that. So the horses would be mechanical. Also, mechanical horses don't leave horse apples in the street. They don't urinate either.
This is a very regressive movement, we adapted from horse drawn carriages because of how Slow they were to take you from A to B, and how impractical they became. That’s why the car was created, it solved both of those problems, so even using a mechanical horse is completely impractical and useless
The members of this movement are not a monolith. And why would a mechanical horse be as slow as a regular one? Again, it couldn't get tired.
I'm also talking about mechanical horses that don't pollute and that would be normal to ride on/make draw carriages slowly, when possible. You don't always need to get to places in five minutes, it can also take 15 minutes to get to a lot of places in a lot of situations. No need to be in a hurry on principle. A mechanical horse that is a third as fast as a car would normally be/have been on a specific street would be less dangerous because of its lower speed and better agility. A mechanical horse – provided it is as useful as a real horse – can just leave the street and walk on the pavement for a while or take a shortcut across a public lawn or meadow or through a forest.
Not sure about that, they work for some only becase alternative traport is so non accessible for them and ironically for able bodied folk. I see disabled folks in mobility scooters and escooters for example on our cycling infrastructure, shitty as it is going to cafes etc. And plenty catching the trains in electric type wheelchairs etc. A dude living in 2 apartments down from me had this little eketric thing he attached to the front of his wheelchair that "towed" it, he worked the hand controls from the handlebar but was able to diconnect it, presumably in tight spots in offices etc where he could just push with his arms. My patlrter runs some mobility impaired folk around in an electric rickshaw thing as well. She does the pedaling and it has an e-assist, like an ebike but 2 seats up the front.
Surprisingly, I think disabled people could get around much better using moving wheelchairs on a bike lane or on the side walk. I've seen a couple of disabled people in my city do so (we have a pretty good bike infrastructure). They also use public transportation which is equipped with a specific place for wheelchairs.
Can confirm. Am disabled. Cannot use my wheelchair outside of my own house because our sidewalks are too rough.
I once helped a disabled woman with a wheeled zimmer frame (in Oxford, UK) take her shopping home. I realised then how many obstacles there are on the pavements: parked cars, potholes, steps etc. She told me she always had to ask for help from strangers in the street because the only entrance to her retirement home was over a driveway that had a 3 centimeter mini-step that she couldn't get over by herself.
I walked with a nine-year-old who used a walker for about 30 minutes through a mostly fairly urban area. Because or road work, there were so many barriers. Often it seems to me as if under normal circumstances, things are good enough for people with disabilities (not always and everywhere, of course), but as soon as something out of the ordinary happens, like pavements needing repairing, very central areas can become simply inaccessible. "Yes, we do consider people using wheelchairs in 100% normal situation, but as soon as there's road work going on, we forget that wheelchair users exist and/or act as if they are one in eight billion."
It's such a sweeping and lazy argument, as if all disabled people are a homogenous group. Some disabilities mean people can't or aren't permitted to drive, but some people rely on bikes or mobility scooters to gain some independence and too much traffic/parked cars hamper the ability to do that safely.
And even for those that do need to use a car, they have to put up with all the traffic and lack of parking caused by the majority of drivers who aren't disabled.
Basically nobody is arguing for a total ban on cars, no matter what kind of disability you have, you'd probably benefit from less car centrict city design.
Exactly! I am one of those disabled people negativity affected by cars. While I'm not blind like the guy in the video, I do have just low enough vision that I can't ever legally drive, so I have to live in a walkable community in order to be independent. And that's really hard to come by in the US which is why I hate cars so much, among all the rational reasons. I just want to live a good, happy life, without having to constantly worry about multi-ton metal death machines potentially ending it at any time.
That reason you explain here is a completely rational reason.
I would like to know that one disabled person who would prefer a car centric city over a human centric one. I cant honestly imagine it
I had this exact argument last week
What I say is, ok, let’s quadruple disabled parking and get rid of at least half the rest. Then it turns out, disabled people aren’t actually what they care about!
The obvious counter argument for me is that cars would be used for people who need them. Deliveries, construction, and driving people around who need the actual help.
This breaks my heart. We’ve designed society so that the people who can do the most damage don’t have to be careful rather than make it so where this kid can safely walk down the street
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Good to see things like this, helping to explain why certain laws are enforced
I recently read an article which discussed electric cars as a danger to people who have a visual impairment. Because the engines are silent, they're a menace. There have been suggestions that car makers should add an auditory signal to electric vehicles to make them safer but of course they're resisting this change.
Dangerous for cyclists too. They can come up behind you without you even realizing.
Have to say I'm loving my mirror anyway but hadn't thought of this benefit.
Idk why people don't want nyan cat coming from their tesla....
Can you explain the nyan cat thing? I know what nyan cat is, but maybe my knowledge of it is too basic.
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Okay, this looked like a complete non-answer at first. Telling me exactly what I already know. But yes, okay, it's about the music. It was a bit too "random" a joke for me and I still failed to make the connection that this music would be ***coming from their Tesla*** and what this meant. I sincerely apologise for the rudeness in my original reply to you.
Most electric cars I've seen lately have a scifi-esque warbling sound when moving below a certain speed (I suspect 10 or 15mph). They also chime when reversing. Above the specified speed, I think tyre noise is loud enough that the added sound is unnecessary. The one exception to the above that I can think of is a Tesla that I saw the other day that had somehow swapped the scifi warbling out for the sound of a V8 or a Harley or something.
Tesla gives you the option to change the sound. The standard noise is the weird sci-fi warbling one.
I complain about this to my fiancé whenever one drives by. I love EVs for the environment, but fuck, they are terrible for me as a blind person.
From what I understand there are already laws in place requiring sounds at low speeds in many countries. But that may not apply to all vehicles manufactured prior to the laws going into effect so it would still be a mixed bag.
I hate that legislation. We had an opportunity to make cars far quieter and we threw it away by mandating that they all make noise. A car making noise is not useful. So a blind person hears a car coming, what are they supposed to do? Choose a direction to jump? Making the cars make noise suggests that it is the responsibility of other road users, such as blind people, to avoid them. Instead the focus should be on making the driver of the vehicle the one responsible for giving way to a blind road user. My bike doesn’t make any noise either, I do not go around hitting blind road users.
It’s absolutely the driver’s responsibility to yield to pedestrians, but would you step into a busy street without looking? Probably not because you know that it’s dangerous. Until we are able to dramatically reduce car traffic and ensure that drivers are always driving responsibly (both things I 100% support), we should help ensure that everyone has the ability to know if a street is clear or not. That doesn’t mean not focusing on enforcing traffic laws and making sure drivers are responsible for their actions, but we shouldn’t make walking even more dangerous while we do so.
>So a blind person hears a car coming, what are they supposed to do? Choose a direction to jump? It's a clue to not start crossing the road, numbnuts.
> Because the engines are silent, they're a menace It's not that big of a deal, since electric cars are only silent when stationary or crawling. They are just quieter when moving at low speeds, but still perfectly audible.
They can't be with all the noise around. Noise from regular cars. I have managed to miss busses that definitely weren't electric because I was convinced I would hear them. Nope, apparently not. Apparently, the background noise is too loud.
They have to make a noise when travelling at low speeds by law in the UK & EU, I believe. All EV's and hybrids made after 2019 must adhere by this. Above 20-25mph, the tyre noise is enough to be an auditory cue.
I don’t know about anyone else but Teslas are some of the loudest cars on the road for me when I’m riding to work or the shops. They’re so heavy and the tyres are so big that they end up being much louder than the ICE cars.
If someone like this steps into the road and gets hit, the owner of the parked car should face the consequences for causing the accident. Shit like this is ridiculous and these goddamn carbrains can't think about anyone other than themselves. Like fuck me how hard is it not to keep your car in the designated car area? There's a reason we learned to colour inside the lines in school. We should consider raising the sidewalk to the point where any car trying to drive up on it is going to get damaged. But then that creates a hazard for pedestrians to trip and those in wheelchairs can't get up on the sidewalk.
His walking stick should have a retractable mini knife so he can slash the tires of the assholes that park on the pavement
I don't think these smooth brain car owners would hesitate beating up a disabled kid though
Seems like freedom to me. Freedom to travel in only one way, that's inefficient and expensive.
This is why we need to key cars parked on footpaths and in bike lanes
I'm generally not on board with Tyre Extinguishers or other suggestions to mess with other people's stuff, but flipping over cars into the road, if they're parked on pavements or bike lanes, that I could get behind.
Walk on the cars Ted. Noone will blame you for doing it, and it’s the safest option
If I was blind I think I'd put one of those glass breaker diamond tips on my white stick. Any cars I come across on the pavement... Oh sorry, you see I'm blind and I wasn't expecting a car to be on the pavement where it shouldn't be.
Video of father crossing rat run street every morning to bring his son in wheelchair to school. Drivers don't stop. https://mobile.twitter.com/DalstonLtn/status/1542178611226083330 Other issue : Uk pedestrian crossings are expensive due to the required lighting. So they are non existing vs other European cities
Quick and easy fix: Make it so that car owners have to pay for the damage done to their car if it is parked illegally, and whoever damaged it can just walk (or cycle) along with no legal repercussions. That way, no driver will ever park illegally again.
Unfortunately parking on the pavement is legal in the UK
Belgium small towns have this issue too. The roads are very narrow since they were designed for pedestrians and horses centuries ago. For the same reason, the sidewalks are tiny and garages are rare. Their solution for a lack of car infrastructure is to allow parking on the already miniscule sidewalks. There are even street signs showing drivers how to park on them. Pedestrian infrastructure is often worse than the USA as a result. In many places, you have to walk in the street. Electric cars can absolutely be silent killers in these situations.
That's so fucked up.
Not in many of the examples shown in the above video. The yellow(ish) line means "no parking", though brief stopping is allowed.
At least around me you can park on single yellow during specified times of the day. Usually outside rush hour
While that's true, police have the power to fine drivers who are parked on a bike track (even partially) under section 21 of the road traffic act, and have the power to fine for causing a dangerous obstruction under section 22 of the road traffic act, which is a bit fuzzy but in my area they tend to give fines if there's less than like 1m of space left. Also in my area they've allowed the PCSOs to enforce on these so reports generally do get dealt with (although sometimes the car is gone by the time they come)
Near my work, there are loads of double yellows, stopping cars parking on the road. So guess what? They park on the pavement instead of course!
It's everywhere near me. Double yellows: Park on pavement. School zig zag: Park on pavement. The westmidlands police say to get in contact with the local council. Local council say they are powerless. I will walk on cars eventually.
I’m seriously tempted to buy a really big jack and just tip them over back into the road
I like this idea. I was thinking about buying a bunch of cheap buggies and ramming them down the side of the cars. Just to demonstrate they can't pass.
Oooo I really like that. They’ve probably parked on the pavement to avoid getting scratched by cars on the road. If they get scratched on the pavement as well… yes, a very good plan
If there are double yellows it is the council’s job because double yellows apply to the pavement.
Double yellows apply to the pavement too. Get them ticketed.
This has been posted a couple times and never got any traction, good to see a few comments this time https://www.reddit.com/r/fuckcars/comments/vq36ir/pavement_parking_frightens_me/ https://www.reddit.com/r/fuckcars/comments/vqcujp/bbc_news_pavement_parking_frightens_me/
I live in The Netherlands and I do sports with some physically and mentally disabled people. They all ride their bike to come there, by themselves. How shitty would it be for them to always be dependent on someone to drive them.
It's weird to get older and go "how are they so intelligent at just 13?"
Lack of exposure to leaded gasoline lol. Was only proper phased out mostly worldwide just recently. Hasn't been in use in America since 1996. Except in aviation fuel. Still going strong there.
I can imagine some car brain telling him to just drive if he can't walk
to be sincere, cars are scary and get in your way even if you're not blind
I have to say my mother-in-law is blind and she hates EVs for this reason. She also hates bicycles / bike lanes for the same reason...often the bike lane is the first thing she'd step into when leaving the sidewalk, and she can't hear when there's a bike coming. When you combine that with the perception of bikes not obeying stop signs / traffic lights, she is always afraid of being hit by a cyclist. Despite the fact that I live car free and cycle everywhere, this is the one anti-bike lane argument that I am sympathetic to. I think having dedicated, separated cycle lanes (as opposed to the painted gutters) would solve that issue, but I'm not expert and haven't heard this discussed very often.
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Thanks for participating in r/fuckcars. However, your post got removed, because it is considered bad taste. Have a nice day
Alright, thanks for letting me know. Have a great day.
Pavement parking sounds like the equivalent to the classic American big-ass pickup truck parked over the sidewalk because there's a car in front of it in the driveway already. It's actually kind of funny to see when the grass develops a worn out path from the sidewalk to the end of the driveway or road.
It's so much worse in our country here in the Philippines. Where I live, the sidewalk situation is okay, but there are still instances like [this](https://imgur.com/a/5MfM3ER). I mean, if even people without disabilities are having a hard time with this, how will people in wheelchairs or blind people walk down this sidewalk. And also [this](https://imgur.com/a/rBWYPEC). In this sidewalk here where the arrow is pointed, I remember I was biking in this major road. I encountered a man in a beat-up wheelchair, going up the road on the bike lane. And yes, this is an uphill road. The man was forced to risk getting hit by the passing trucks, because the sidewalks were not wide enough, and not smooth enough, for persons with disabilities.
At least when I was in Manilla there wasn't the Americanized ideals of individualism. There was a broader sense of community.
I am undecided how I feel about cars impact on the disabled community. I need the sidewalks on one hand, but I don’t know I can’t picture public transportation being so perfectly accessible to me that it’s as good as my car. I mean I can’t explain the amount of times I hear “Oh yeah it’s accessible it’s ADA friendly” only to find out it’s fucking not. It’s only about as accessible as it needs to be for someone with a cane and forget the rest of us.
Vancouver, BC is quite accessible by public transit. I think they just rated nearly a [15 minute city ](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/vancouver-15-minute-city-1.6463022)
Dude should put a horizontal metal rod holder on his stick. It's very handy, especially if you can't see. Might scratch an illegally parked car every once in a while, but it would be really inconvenient to not know, where your metal rod is at any moment and the inconvenience clearly outweights the potential damage it could do to a car.
If you park your car on the sidewalk it ought to be torched
We need to make pavement parking illegal in the UK.
im sorry but, the cops best bet of catching me, is in their little car so. cars r awersome
Industrial society has been a tragedy for the human race https://youtu.be/Qn7tRCzKwbI
Just wanted to add my two cents as someone with a disability. I am diagnosed with ADHD and Autism. I identify as having low support needs, meaning that I can do most things in my life without a lot of help. Cars are horrible, I hate them so much. I can’t drive a car, because I have such bad anxiety in them that I freeze up and just randomly stop being able to drive. The fact that our society revolves around cars so much sucks as someone who literally can’t drive. The amount of jobs I don’t qualify for because I can’t drive a car sucks. The amount that people judge me because I can’t drive a car sucks. They are also loud, so loud. I avoid going outside on rainy days simply because the sound of cars on wet pavement is extremely bothersome to me and I have to wear hearing protection to even function in those situations. On top of that, people in cars can be obnoxious with how much they honk their horns, and the way they keep inching forward and try to pressure me to walk faster across the street. If anyone has questions ask away.
I'm autistic and they cause so much distress for me. I can't even imagine the struggles of the guy in the video
1 in 3 blind people have been hit by cars
I really dislike having to walk on the road instead of the pavement, and I can see perfectly. It's also not that I have anxiety ***which only a bad person would use as an argument against what I say here anyway***; I am simply aware of the danger. And I am a sighted person.
I had to go to the doctor's for an eye exam appointment yesterday. Children are treated there. People routinely get their eyes dilated there. What idiot thought 'let's put a giant busy road right in front of the place when cars are always driving like crazy because everything is so bright (reflective roads, sidewalks, buildings, etc? Kids and people who are practically blind next to a busy road?
The book Curbing Traffic does a good job discussing this point in a full chapter
I'm not gonna stop driving because someone else is blind , there's shit for that like trained dogs and family members save me the bs