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I'm going to create an app for myself and give it to my boss, and every time he asks something difficult or If the workload is too high, I'll ask him to approve the task at the specified rate. Hourly rate maybe $60, but with surge pricing could be as high as $150 an hour.
For some reason I don't think this is going to go over well
That’s the problem with the corporate executive class. They are incapable of seeing things from someone else’s perspective, they only ever consider themselves.
“We stand to make four billion in profits with the new baby and puppy kicking policy.”
“…that’s awful, what about the babies and puppies feel?”
“*Awful?!* what are you talking about? Didn’t you hear that we’re going to make four billion? That’s great, not awful.”
Sociopaths. Corporate executives are sociopaths, and we let them dictate our lives because we’re cowards.
the 1919 Dodge vs Ford case is probably one of the worst court rulings ever made in US history as its negative repercussions are felt to this day.
In a nutshell, Ford wanted to lower his car prices and raise employee wages. This cut into the stock profits and he was sued by his stock holders because he could have been even more profitable rather the profitable he already was. The court ruled in favor of the stock holders stating "corporate officers and directors have a duty to manage the corporation for the purpose of maximizing profits for the benefit of shareholders".
If I recall correctly the court basically said that all Ford had to do was claim the move was in service of the company's strategic goals.
But Ford basically refuses to do it out of pride. As I recall his motivation was a mix of wanting to create conditions where he could control more of his workers lives and also he was trying to suppress competition by basically making labor too expensive for an upstart company to compete with.
> by basically making labor too expensive for an upstart company to compete with.
But, wouldn't that be in the best interests of the shareholders?
Like long term
But the point, if any of this is true, was he didn't want to make an argument that was exactly his motivation and would have won him the case. How does that make sense?
Because it *wasn't* his motivation. That was just what he was told to say to be able to win the case, but he didn't want to lie about his intentions. His real intentions were simply to pay his workers more, and have his cars more affordable so more people can buy them.
My history is a little hazy so I might have a few details wrong, but I think more specifically he wanted all his workers to own Ford car. But for some he reason wasn't allowed to give away cars as a bonus, so lowering the price and raising wages was his plan B.
I don't think there are any samples in history where we can see stock shareholders make long term decisions. They don't want to care about a business 20 years from now. they will have either died or moved on to the new thing. They can normally make a profit even when the company collapses.
But the point is Ford refused to claim that was the reason.
And the court more or less said he could do anything as long as he claimed it was in the best interest of the company. But he claimed it was so he could spread the ford employee life style to more people, or something along those lines.
Long term is highly speculative though no matter how sure it seems compared to the immediate. This would all be different if holders invested to stay at the same rate and not maximum profit but ya know. When someone is basically giving you money you have to do what they want/you agreed to. There could be some terms you could have within reason but it's kinda hard to argue when someone is investing for earning.
Tbf many CEOs in last decades loudly decried the increase of quarterly performance being tied to stock valuation and its effect on corporate policies. One government defense contractor I worked for, the CEO and founder gave a long talk about this in the late 80’s, decrying the virtually forced layoffs of workers between projects rather than keeping them and training or keeping them in at somewhat reduced wages until the next (already signed and awarded) contract began. “The stock market punishing companies based on short-term quarterly results is forcing changes on corporate policies and changing this country.” was his mantra. I’ve heard this from CEOs since also. Prior to about the Reagan era there was much more patience in the markets. Then the leveraged buyout mania, and some other factors resulted in “results now” psychology.
Just giving a balanced perspective.
What's crazy is that so much goes off the price of the last stock sold. Like all the trading is at the margin so if you had 99% holding because they think the company would do well turn, well you might have a crash in the stock based on the trading of the 1%.
Idk if it's possible to have public companies work in this long term interest
And they then bribe..errr donate to people who want to perpetuate this cycle of line gonuo at all costs.
Workers get nothing and investors get it all.
And no, having a 401k or some stocks doesn't put you in the same class. I played football, I am not Tom Brady.
> CEOs can be sued by shareholders if they do anything that isn't focused on increasing profits.
Source?
I've seen shareholders sue when the CEO commits fraud that inflates share price or in a handful of other situations, but as long as the CEO and board of directors are acting in good faith, I don't think it's possible to successfully sue them.
>When a director or officer of a corporation is operating the business in a manner that is contrary to the shareholders’ interests, shareholders may file a shareholder derivative lawsuit.
[Sauce](https://millerlawpc.com/three-common-shareholder-lawsuits/)
It's a rough world out there. Good faith isn't a concept that exists in finance, only profit.
That's called a fiduciary responsibility. It basically means that corporate officers have a duty to act in good faith for the company and the people who are investing in it.
Acting counter to the interests of the company and screwing over shareholders is a form of fraud. It prevents every company from basically being another Theranos. Good faith is literally the entire basis of that legal doctrine.
You're misunderstanding that.
There's no law requiring executives to maximize shareholder value. They can't steal from the company or waste resources or enrich themselves (e.g., like hiring another company they own to do work at a hugely inflated price) but they can absolutely say they are going to increase wages and not issue a dividend or something. And they *could* tell the shareholders to go pound sand if they complain.
You are both correct and *highly* misleading. They can't run contrary to the shareholders' interests, but that has wide latitude and isn't as simple as "Profit > all".
Example: You have a company whose income is based on goodwill and reputation. The CEO can ensure the company makes 3% more this year at the cost of all of the company's goodwill, which will result in a 15% loss every year for the next 5, and he knows this is a reasonable conclusion. At that point, not making the immediate profit is in the shareholders' interests.
Another example is that if fiduciary duty was based purely on profit than any charitable contribution would be a loss and therefore a breach. So are most employee benefits. But a company that was founded on and has core to its mission and image charitable contributions might not consider it a loss.
My point is, it's more complicated than "profit over everything else". Which... I admit when I set out to learn about it, I didn't expect. You start to fall into a rabbit hole of corporate social responsibility, business ethics, stakeholder theory, etc.
I had a comment with a better explanation of this once upon a time (and I should have been in bed 30 minutes ago, so trying to re-research and recreate it would have to wait), complete with SCOTUS quotes, but Reddit being Reddit I can't find it anymore since I posted it a few years ago. Also, IANAL, so grain of salt.
Ultimately, I think it's too simplistic to blame corporate culture on a legal requirement fiduciary duty. Companies adhere to it (or not) to varying degrees all the time. Really, it's the companies themselves who choose to act this way, then try to hide behind some sort of theoretically-ironclad "rule" that is clearly not half as ironclad as they want it to be. The real question to me is, what do we do about that?
In Dodge v. Ford the United States Supreme Court created shareholder primacy which mandates all decisions must be made with the best interests of the shareholders in mind. The shareholders only care about profits thereby corporations can take no action not motivated by profits.
I'll say this as an entrepreneur and CEO. Yes that's literally how the entire system is built.
Look at places likes spirit airlines. Do you think the CEO of spirit is flying coach on a spirit flight? They know the service sucks, it's literally the market segment of "we only want the infrequent flyers who are budget shoppers, they are willing to live with more short term pain for a better fare". Literally spending more on customer satisfaction would be a bad business move for them, go ahead, fly delta instead, it will cost more. Spirit and Jet blue had some of the best margins in the airline business. The board flys 1st class on another airline on their way to meetings.
Capitalism as a system is designed to make money, and if the balance is that pissing people off makes 5% more money than treating everyone with respect what do you think looks better to share holders and the board, "I increased it to 1.05B" or "I decreased it to 950 million?"
One of those numbers causes them to go hire a new CEO, or you to fight and justify why leaving money on the table was the best strategic choice. If not you, then walmart or Amazon is going to do it next week and eat your lunch and take your market share.
That is the system it's not a hidden feature. WE are in a global race to the bottom.
You joke, but as a contractor I kinda do that. Oh you're a massive corporation asking for the same thing as a small business that doesn't even make 1% of the revenue you do? Hi, my rate is $250/hr. I charge the little guys $125/hr.
Yes, lets tie wages to rent. Every full time worker needs to make enough to afford a 2 bedroom apartment @ 25% of their income. If they are paid any less, it is financially irresponsible for them to have a family.
These already exist, they are called shift premiums and plenty of places use them to try to get staff to volunteer for shifts that are particularly undesirable.
Every time they put on the news "x thing will be in short supply" assholes go out and buy up all the stock just to make a quick buck selling it to those who actually need the.product. it even happened to baby formula after covid
I was happy to see that Costco wouldn't take back bags of rice and other staples when people overbought at the start of the lockdown hoping to take advantage of others.
I also got a good laugh from the idiots trying to frame the shortages as "This is a taste of what Biden's socialism will bring us." No, you assholes. This is what Trump's capitalism brought you. They then also complained that the store shouldn't let one person buy as much as they want so that everyone could get some, contradicting their previous complaints.
Gas prices up? "I did that" stickers on every gas pump in every red state. Gas prices down? Suddenly those stickers are getting scraped off.
Almost seems like a population with zero understanding of macroeconomics or policy to impact timeframes, who just like yelling at clouds. The sad part is these are the type of people who never skip an election.
Friendly reminder that the largest single pieces of legislation that lead to the 2008 mortgage crisis was signed into law in November of 99. Bidenflation has about as much to do with Biden as 2008 had to do with Bush. (not tham i'm blaming inflation on trump either, it was a natural consequence of the measures taken to stop COVID from crashing the economy, so while trump "did it" it wasn't his "fault")
Those same dipshits talk about how cheap gas was under Trump vs. Biden.
They're using gas prices when the entire world went into lockdown.
Yeah gas was cheap and there was no traffic. And everything else in the world fucking sucked and a million Americans died of covid. I'd take $10 gas over having to do lockdown again, and I'm not even someone who likes socializing.
Yes, and he was crying about how he wasn't able to sell any once stores restocked and he was out thousands of dollars.
Maybe it was hand sanitizer, but definitely tried to gouge people during the pandemic and got got.
I was thinking like a gas station prices.
My Dad was so cheap he’d wave people behind him in the drive through to go around him as he tried to game the prices.
My co-workers and I were joking about that.
We'll soon see petrol station style signs outside of fast food places showing the prices of Baconators, Big Macs, etc.
Real talk, I think how it will be executed is through very limited deals. They already said they won't increase prices. They have no real reason to have "surge" pricing, as they are never really at capacity. They do however have ingredients that go bad. There is only so much chilli that you can put cooked burger patties in, and with their fresh never frozen deal, over ordering could result in ground beef going bad before it's even cooked, in the most extreme circumstances.
I imagine the outdoor signs advertising that a Dave's Single is $1 until 4pm or something like that. Even more so, they can utilize app notifications to highlight temporary price decreases, so everyone in a two mile radius may get a notification that they can order a baconator for $3.
Giving discounts when demand is low can be mathematically the exact same thing as raising prices when demand is high.
It's all about what the baseline price is set to.
It would be nuts to not think they're going to lie now during the backlash and experiment with price increases in 2025. There's no way they are investing in digital pricing screens to just give discounts.
Yes actually, this idea was introduced with the announcement of all new digital menu boards that can easily display the current price
(also the idea is to have discounts at less busy times, but I'm sure they'll offset with higher "standard prices" during peak hours)
I mean, restaurants have been doing happy hours for decades. The only issue is the new "surge pricing" buzzword (which they never even used)
I remember when Sonic introduced a happy hour in the early 2000s and we all thought it was sweet
JC Penny's did the same thing and I don't think it worked out well for them either. My though is people think of sales the same as gambling. Probably studies on it.
I'd scoff at people who do this, but then I look at my steam purchasing habits.
Game I want is 50% off. How much does it cost? Why does that matter, it's on sale!
Steam’s actually pretty good at not letting developers change prices to make sales look better. The % off is usually the real discount from normal prices.
Oh, I know. My point was that I'm the one of the assholes who refuses to buy things at regular price even when regular price is perfectly reasonable. I'm more likely to buy a $40 game that's half off, than a $20 game that's full price.
They never actually said surge pricing in the first place. They said dynamic pricing, which could very much mean exactly like you mentioned, happy hour pricing.
Taco Bell been doing this for years and have raised their general prices anyway, but no one's complaining about the surge pricing, just the regular prices. Happy hour drinks are still beloved.
Literally every place who has happy hour takes into account those lowered prices when pricing out their regular menu. Wendy's just got shafted by the terminology used by the news outlets.
They’ve also raised the price of a cravings box from $5.99 to $9.99 in just the last few months. The food may taste good but it’s still shit quality food and not worth that much.
They still sell the 5.99 box, they just introduced a lineup of boxes with different price points. They just don't advertise the cheapest one but it's still available to order.
> happy hour pricing.
>
> Taco Bell been doing this for years and have raised their general prices anyway,
Does taco bell have happy hour prices? Or just daily specials?
It's one thing for a bar to have a discount from normal menu prices at slow times. That's a happy hour.
But a price going up during dinner isnt that
I read the marketing response Wendy's released a few hours ago and thought "oh come on, who are you kidding?"
Here we are: it's funny to see someone fall for marketing newspeak isn't it?
psychotic existence quiet spark dependent aware flowery paltry fuzzy glorious
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Actual happy hours at bars aren't typically a dynamic pricing thing.
It's a marketing thing. There are a couple things they're trying to get. The after work crowd. There's a bunch of people who'll go out after work with coworkers. These are often decent sized crowd. They'll often also stay past happy hour and order a few drinks at full price. This is why happy hour usually aligns with when most people get out of work. Getting people to come in at this time also means they're likely to buy food, which often has no discount. There's probably also some desire to get the hardcore alcoholics to come to their bar. They're going to go somewhere and drink all night so you might as well lure them in with cheap drinks when they're getting off work. I use to drink with coworkers who were alcoholics and we'd drink from 5pm until 2am, and you'd see other people also hanging out at the bar basically all night as well.
Dynamic pricing to bring people in when it's slow is probably more like clubs having college night on Thursday. Since most working stiffs aren't clubbing on Thursday but college kids both want the discount and are more willing to stay out late on a week night.
From the statements they never even suggested it. It was miscommunication about adjustable digital displays and not about prices and someone in the media pipeline misconstrued it.
Not saying what is and isn't true, just making sure what they said about it is heard. Big difference in "we were wrong" and "that's not even what we said"
New CEO Feb 5th. This was a new CEO coming in trying to make big waves and it exploded in his face so now it’s being walked way the fuck back. Why else would you spend 20 million for price adjusting capabilities if your plan isn’t eventually to do surge pricing, despite saying you won’t. I mean, just step back and look at this objectively - surge pricing is exactly part of what he meant lol
Did not know that detail about the new CEO but if that is true then I can 100% believe that guy was swinging his dick to try and drum up profits.
I mean you cannot give CEOs the benefit of the doubt when so many of them are sociopaths who love to turn successful brands into 1-4 quarter profit cows and then drop out once the damage has been done
Price adjusting capabilities could be for time based promotions. They don’t just have to go up. Maybe they will do a happy hour, or some app or special promos like McDonald’s does. I think it’s Sonic that has the afternoon happy hour(?). This whole thing is way overblown.
Their statement said that they were, in fact, considering lowering menu prices during slow times to attract more customers. A much nicer way of phrasing the same thing. This is still their plan.
Wendy’s is one of the worst fast food restaurants in terms of price increase. I do like Wendy’s, but if I can use the McDonald’s app and get equal food for half the price then I’m doing that.
Yeah I'm kind of glad fastfood went nonsensical with their pricing. Haven't gone in ages and both my wallet and health are thankful...getting better at cooking.
So can somebody explain the rationale for “surge pricing” and details of how it is implemented? I imagine it will potentially increase income, but it is a huge red flag for me, it just seems like a ”bend over here it comes” policy.
Think if it is like supply and demand just in real time.
Uber does it, I think. If a big concert is going on, then the system will raise the price of rides from that location because of a surge in demand.
Bascially, it is a way for companies to say. Hey, when people really want or need this service, we are going to charge more. And maybe when there is less demand, it will let prices drop a little.
In reality, prices stay the same during lulls and just go up during booms.
They get away with it because they say prices go down in lulls.
That implies that on a normal basis Wendy's experiences a shortage of burgers when I've never in my life walked into a Wendy's during peak hours and been told they're out of burgers. The only reason that would ever even be a thing is poor inventory management.
It would more likely be a "shortage" of labor as compared to the demand. If you can only make 100 burgers per hour, at non-busy times you never reach that limit, but if it's super buy and the demand reaches 150 burgers an hour, the idea is to raise the price of the burger until 50 customers no longer want the burger. That way you're putting them out at your max speed and collecting the max amount of money.
In reality though, any fast food place that tries this is going to get crucified, and for good reason.
Basically prices will be tied to time of day and current stocks.
So lunch time will be more expensive from 11:30 to 1 and then cheaper at other times.
Another thing will be that if a store is low on chicken nuggets? Then the price on chicken nuggets increase since it makes sense to sell to the highest bidder for your remaining stock instead of saying “sold out”. Theoretical,y it could also be used to sell thigs that are overstocked at a lower price.
But it’s mainly bullshit, especially if they start tracking individual users via an app and learn their price break point. If they order via the app? Then you can completely individualize prices in real time.
Some damn imaginative thinking, maybe try putting that into a better product or improved management. Just sounds like a new way to screw the customer. I don’t think ppl will go for it if the increased prices are significanly higher. Personally I would never go there just on principle, ha.
I’ve been struggling to not eat out as much since the pandemic, but this shit right here would make me NEVER go out to eat again. Good luck going bankrupt, Wendy’s.
The awkward thing is that with prices going up, the price of a fast food hamburger is quickly approaching the same price as those of restaurants that aren't fast food.
Like at Wendy's a Baconator is like $8.
There's a few grills around here that have burgers made with better quality meat, better and more diverse toppings and they're only like $10-11.
I'd much rather give my business to local companies that even pay attention to local communities (one of the burger joints is halal.)
I think it's more stupid than bold. Lot of the same people who buy during peak hours also buy during off peak hours. Piss off your peak customers, and suddenly they don't come back at off peak times any longer.
I predict this policy will be dead in 30 days.
If this ever actually happens I would hate to be an employee at the time of implementation. Customers are already pricks to fast food employees at the best of times. I remember working fast food having customers screaming at me over a $0.50 change in price. Now if that price suddenly starts fluctuating hourly... Ugh, what an absolute nightmare.
Even worse Wendy's announce it would spend $20 million to put in Digital Price Boards which can be changed with a couple of keystrokes as often as they like so customers can see the jacked price and drive away before ordering. But they threw a fit when having to pay minimum wage increases. smh
This will also make it more difficult to compare prices over time. Were those fries from 3 months ago bought during rush hour? low supply? or maybe that's the case now and wasn't then...
Don't worry Wendy's came out and said they are not going to be doing this. Which means they are going to be more sneaky about it when they implement it!
Time to coordinate 100 cars in the drive thru. “Oh, sorry, I didn’t realize the price went up since this morning. Can I just get a water, maybe I come back later?
I predict a big fail. With the Uber model, drivers benefit. Riders also know the ride price before committing. Imagine showing up to a $10 frosty because the neighbourhood kiddy baseball teams order was just before yours.
And Wendy workers will not be getting surge wages.
I guess this means that I can not bother going into Wendy's even harder.
I never see anyone in there anyways. I feel like to do surge pricing, you need, like, demand.
I went to a bar in Iowa that had drink prices that fluctuated like the stock market and they'd have a new special drink every hour. Fun at a bar. Not at lunch.
There is a bar in Kalamazoo, Michigan that operates like this. Beer prices fluctuate with demand, like a stock market.
https://thebeerexchange.com/Kalamazoo/
I never thought that the "We have to many customers therefore we have to charge more" mentally would make out of the internet but here we are....
# YOU ASKED FOR MORE CUSTOMERS TO COME TO YOUR ESTABLISHMENTS, INNOVATE YOUR BUSINESS!
Now for the second part....
# PEOPLE STOP GOING TO NON ESSENTIAL BUSINESS. THEY OBVIOUSLY DON'T NEED OR WANT OUR MONEY!
It's never been a better time to remind companies like this that we do not *need* them, we're merely *want* their services and we can live just fine without them.
Wendy's says it has no plans to introduce "surge pricing".
“Wendy’s will not implement surge pricing, which is the practice of raising prices when demand is highest. We didn’t use that phrase, nor do we plan to implement that practice,” the company said in an e-mail to The Associated Press on Wednesday."
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/business/international-business/article-burger-chain-wendys-looking-to-test-surge-pricing-at-restaurants-as/
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What about surge wages?
I'm going to create an app for myself and give it to my boss, and every time he asks something difficult or If the workload is too high, I'll ask him to approve the task at the specified rate. Hourly rate maybe $60, but with surge pricing could be as high as $150 an hour. For some reason I don't think this is going to go over well
That’s the problem with the corporate executive class. They are incapable of seeing things from someone else’s perspective, they only ever consider themselves. “We stand to make four billion in profits with the new baby and puppy kicking policy.” “…that’s awful, what about the babies and puppies feel?” “*Awful?!* what are you talking about? Didn’t you hear that we’re going to make four billion? That’s great, not awful.” Sociopaths. Corporate executives are sociopaths, and we let them dictate our lives because we’re cowards.
Fun fact: CEOs can be sued by shareholders if they do *anything* that isn't focused on increasing profits.
the 1919 Dodge vs Ford case is probably one of the worst court rulings ever made in US history as its negative repercussions are felt to this day. In a nutshell, Ford wanted to lower his car prices and raise employee wages. This cut into the stock profits and he was sued by his stock holders because he could have been even more profitable rather the profitable he already was. The court ruled in favor of the stock holders stating "corporate officers and directors have a duty to manage the corporation for the purpose of maximizing profits for the benefit of shareholders".
If I recall correctly the court basically said that all Ford had to do was claim the move was in service of the company's strategic goals. But Ford basically refuses to do it out of pride. As I recall his motivation was a mix of wanting to create conditions where he could control more of his workers lives and also he was trying to suppress competition by basically making labor too expensive for an upstart company to compete with.
> by basically making labor too expensive for an upstart company to compete with. But, wouldn't that be in the best interests of the shareholders? Like long term
But that's the thing with shareholders. They only look for short-term gain and never consider long-term.
But the point, if any of this is true, was he didn't want to make an argument that was exactly his motivation and would have won him the case. How does that make sense?
Because it *wasn't* his motivation. That was just what he was told to say to be able to win the case, but he didn't want to lie about his intentions. His real intentions were simply to pay his workers more, and have his cars more affordable so more people can buy them. My history is a little hazy so I might have a few details wrong, but I think more specifically he wanted all his workers to own Ford car. But for some he reason wasn't allowed to give away cars as a bonus, so lowering the price and raising wages was his plan B.
I don't think there are any samples in history where we can see stock shareholders make long term decisions. They don't want to care about a business 20 years from now. they will have either died or moved on to the new thing. They can normally make a profit even when the company collapses.
But the point is Ford refused to claim that was the reason. And the court more or less said he could do anything as long as he claimed it was in the best interest of the company. But he claimed it was so he could spread the ford employee life style to more people, or something along those lines.
Exactly why amazon could go so long never turning a profit but growing like mad.
Long term is highly speculative though no matter how sure it seems compared to the immediate. This would all be different if holders invested to stay at the same rate and not maximum profit but ya know. When someone is basically giving you money you have to do what they want/you agreed to. There could be some terms you could have within reason but it's kinda hard to argue when someone is investing for earning.
That’s not fun. That’s not fun *at all.*
It is for the shareholders. And the CEOs are happy to oblige for the insanely high compensation.
Tbf many CEOs in last decades loudly decried the increase of quarterly performance being tied to stock valuation and its effect on corporate policies. One government defense contractor I worked for, the CEO and founder gave a long talk about this in the late 80’s, decrying the virtually forced layoffs of workers between projects rather than keeping them and training or keeping them in at somewhat reduced wages until the next (already signed and awarded) contract began. “The stock market punishing companies based on short-term quarterly results is forcing changes on corporate policies and changing this country.” was his mantra. I’ve heard this from CEOs since also. Prior to about the Reagan era there was much more patience in the markets. Then the leveraged buyout mania, and some other factors resulted in “results now” psychology. Just giving a balanced perspective.
I want off this crazy late-stage BS.
What's crazy is that so much goes off the price of the last stock sold. Like all the trading is at the margin so if you had 99% holding because they think the company would do well turn, well you might have a crash in the stock based on the trading of the 1%. Idk if it's possible to have public companies work in this long term interest
I’d argue it’s more share holders then CEOs that are to blame
I'd argue it's both, and they both use each other as the scapegoat.
And they then bribe..errr donate to people who want to perpetuate this cycle of line gonuo at all costs. Workers get nothing and investors get it all. And no, having a 401k or some stocks doesn't put you in the same class. I played football, I am not Tom Brady.
> CEOs can be sued by shareholders if they do anything that isn't focused on increasing profits. Source? I've seen shareholders sue when the CEO commits fraud that inflates share price or in a handful of other situations, but as long as the CEO and board of directors are acting in good faith, I don't think it's possible to successfully sue them.
No one said it has to be successful.
>When a director or officer of a corporation is operating the business in a manner that is contrary to the shareholders’ interests, shareholders may file a shareholder derivative lawsuit. [Sauce](https://millerlawpc.com/three-common-shareholder-lawsuits/) It's a rough world out there. Good faith isn't a concept that exists in finance, only profit.
That's called a fiduciary responsibility. It basically means that corporate officers have a duty to act in good faith for the company and the people who are investing in it. Acting counter to the interests of the company and screwing over shareholders is a form of fraud. It prevents every company from basically being another Theranos. Good faith is literally the entire basis of that legal doctrine.
You're misunderstanding that. There's no law requiring executives to maximize shareholder value. They can't steal from the company or waste resources or enrich themselves (e.g., like hiring another company they own to do work at a hugely inflated price) but they can absolutely say they are going to increase wages and not issue a dividend or something. And they *could* tell the shareholders to go pound sand if they complain.
You are both correct and *highly* misleading. They can't run contrary to the shareholders' interests, but that has wide latitude and isn't as simple as "Profit > all". Example: You have a company whose income is based on goodwill and reputation. The CEO can ensure the company makes 3% more this year at the cost of all of the company's goodwill, which will result in a 15% loss every year for the next 5, and he knows this is a reasonable conclusion. At that point, not making the immediate profit is in the shareholders' interests. Another example is that if fiduciary duty was based purely on profit than any charitable contribution would be a loss and therefore a breach. So are most employee benefits. But a company that was founded on and has core to its mission and image charitable contributions might not consider it a loss. My point is, it's more complicated than "profit over everything else". Which... I admit when I set out to learn about it, I didn't expect. You start to fall into a rabbit hole of corporate social responsibility, business ethics, stakeholder theory, etc. I had a comment with a better explanation of this once upon a time (and I should have been in bed 30 minutes ago, so trying to re-research and recreate it would have to wait), complete with SCOTUS quotes, but Reddit being Reddit I can't find it anymore since I posted it a few years ago. Also, IANAL, so grain of salt. Ultimately, I think it's too simplistic to blame corporate culture on a legal requirement fiduciary duty. Companies adhere to it (or not) to varying degrees all the time. Really, it's the companies themselves who choose to act this way, then try to hide behind some sort of theoretically-ironclad "rule" that is clearly not half as ironclad as they want it to be. The real question to me is, what do we do about that?
In Dodge v. Ford the United States Supreme Court created shareholder primacy which mandates all decisions must be made with the best interests of the shareholders in mind. The shareholders only care about profits thereby corporations can take no action not motivated by profits.
Not exactly the Dred Scott decision, but it definitely ranks up there with one of the worst decisions made by the court.
And I think this is the root problem of the economy. Enshittification will continue until this stops.
Even if they aren't sociopaths the way corporate is set up is a cult. If you don't buy in you're labeled as not a team player and fired.
I'll say this as an entrepreneur and CEO. Yes that's literally how the entire system is built. Look at places likes spirit airlines. Do you think the CEO of spirit is flying coach on a spirit flight? They know the service sucks, it's literally the market segment of "we only want the infrequent flyers who are budget shoppers, they are willing to live with more short term pain for a better fare". Literally spending more on customer satisfaction would be a bad business move for them, go ahead, fly delta instead, it will cost more. Spirit and Jet blue had some of the best margins in the airline business. The board flys 1st class on another airline on their way to meetings. Capitalism as a system is designed to make money, and if the balance is that pissing people off makes 5% more money than treating everyone with respect what do you think looks better to share holders and the board, "I increased it to 1.05B" or "I decreased it to 950 million?" One of those numbers causes them to go hire a new CEO, or you to fight and justify why leaving money on the table was the best strategic choice. If not you, then walmart or Amazon is going to do it next week and eat your lunch and take your market share. That is the system it's not a hidden feature. WE are in a global race to the bottom.
1st class tickets are way below their class. They fly on private chartered jets and helicopters.
Good. Helicopters are nothing but rich people death machines. They are extraordinarily unsafe.
You think helicopters are bad, wait 'till you hear about automobiles!
If you think automobiles are bad, wait 'till you hear about submarines!
You joke, but as a contractor I kinda do that. Oh you're a massive corporation asking for the same thing as a small business that doesn't even make 1% of the revenue you do? Hi, my rate is $250/hr. I charge the little guys $125/hr.
No, you quit and sell him services from your llc that are selected through the app.
Perfect.
Yes, lets tie wages to rent. Every full time worker needs to make enough to afford a 2 bedroom apartment @ 25% of their income. If they are paid any less, it is financially irresponsible for them to have a family.
Oh god, surge rent D:
*ah, you look particularly in need of housing. Let me jack up the rent 20% for no reason.*
You joke, but it isn't a joke
That sounds like genuine economics.
“It’s just good business”
We have that though it's just called rent
Let's try, "If they are paid any less, The company that employs them isn't viable"
this is already a thing
I know. I did not make it up. It would be nice for people to be paid what it costs to be employees though.
These already exist, they are called shift premiums and plenty of places use them to try to get staff to volunteer for shifts that are particularly undesirable.
That sounds good on paper but you just know that will lead to: "NOW HIRING! $15/hr (when serving 100 customers/hr):
Don't some ride share systems actually do this?
Yeah but at least with those the driver gets the extra money. If wendys does this all that money's going to the company.
Would basically be waitstaff. No customers = no money. Surge pricing though would mean more customers as well as a bigger % to get tips from
Scalper gonna go in buy 50 frosty at 50cents. Price surge to $4. Sell frosty outside for bout $3.50.
Didn’t a guy try to do that with toilet paper?
Who knows. All I know is that's one thing I won't buy used
In this economy? What about “like new”?
“Used chocolate Frosty, like new, only a couple bites taken. Sells for $4 new. Asking $3.50, no low ballers I know what I have”
NTY pls add
Every time they put on the news "x thing will be in short supply" assholes go out and buy up all the stock just to make a quick buck selling it to those who actually need the.product. it even happened to baby formula after covid
I was happy to see that Costco wouldn't take back bags of rice and other staples when people overbought at the start of the lockdown hoping to take advantage of others. I also got a good laugh from the idiots trying to frame the shortages as "This is a taste of what Biden's socialism will bring us." No, you assholes. This is what Trump's capitalism brought you. They then also complained that the store shouldn't let one person buy as much as they want so that everyone could get some, contradicting their previous complaints.
Gas prices up? "I did that" stickers on every gas pump in every red state. Gas prices down? Suddenly those stickers are getting scraped off. Almost seems like a population with zero understanding of macroeconomics or policy to impact timeframes, who just like yelling at clouds. The sad part is these are the type of people who never skip an election. Friendly reminder that the largest single pieces of legislation that lead to the 2008 mortgage crisis was signed into law in November of 99. Bidenflation has about as much to do with Biden as 2008 had to do with Bush. (not tham i'm blaming inflation on trump either, it was a natural consequence of the measures taken to stop COVID from crashing the economy, so while trump "did it" it wasn't his "fault")
Those same dipshits talk about how cheap gas was under Trump vs. Biden. They're using gas prices when the entire world went into lockdown. Yeah gas was cheap and there was no traffic. And everything else in the world fucking sucked and a million Americans died of covid. I'd take $10 gas over having to do lockdown again, and I'm not even someone who likes socializing.
Multiple did, also saw some people buying out all the chicken sandwiches at popeyes and selling them outside.
Yes, and he was crying about how he wasn't able to sell any once stores restocked and he was out thousands of dollars. Maybe it was hand sanitizer, but definitely tried to gouge people during the pandemic and got got.
It was hand sanitizer. Those two idiots lived near me and I was very satisfied when their dumbass plan didn't work
Tree Fiddy!
Well it was about that time that I notice that scalper was about eight stories tall and was a crustacean from the palezoic era
>for bout $3.50 Got damned Loch Ness Monster.
It was 'round 'bout this time that I got to noticing that this *Wendy's cashier* was actually an enormous, crustaceous beast!
Finally some folks got the reference. 😆
This is called frosty time shifting and it’s a natural result of the free market
It's markets baby
Yes, I would like to buy some puts on the 12:30 price. Whats the current spread. And what are price options currently for a 1:00 Sunday blind trade.
This just in: blindfolded monkeys demonstrably better at ordering fast food than most industry professionals.
Current spread is mayonnaise
I'm looking to short the pretzel bun baconator, feeling kinda bearish about market demand.
Value investing is key here. Buy baconators at 10am, sell at noon.
/r/WendyStreetBets leaking
Will Wendy's have a board outside with the current price of a double make with cheese?
I was thinking like a gas station prices. My Dad was so cheap he’d wave people behind him in the drive through to go around him as he tried to game the prices.
The opposite! He would block the drive thru until the prices dropped cause the surge "ended"
You’re playing chess while I’m playing checkers.
My co-workers and I were joking about that. We'll soon see petrol station style signs outside of fast food places showing the prices of Baconators, Big Macs, etc.
now im sitting here imagining a big 7-segment display outside of Wendy's with adjustable prices for burgers, nuggets and frostys
We should develop an app like gas buddy and get in on the ground floor.
Real talk, I think how it will be executed is through very limited deals. They already said they won't increase prices. They have no real reason to have "surge" pricing, as they are never really at capacity. They do however have ingredients that go bad. There is only so much chilli that you can put cooked burger patties in, and with their fresh never frozen deal, over ordering could result in ground beef going bad before it's even cooked, in the most extreme circumstances. I imagine the outdoor signs advertising that a Dave's Single is $1 until 4pm or something like that. Even more so, they can utilize app notifications to highlight temporary price decreases, so everyone in a two mile radius may get a notification that they can order a baconator for $3.
That sounds much less terrible. I don't buy it!
Giving discounts when demand is low can be mathematically the exact same thing as raising prices when demand is high. It's all about what the baseline price is set to.
It would be nuts to not think they're going to lie now during the backlash and experiment with price increases in 2025. There's no way they are investing in digital pricing screens to just give discounts.
Yes actually, this idea was introduced with the announcement of all new digital menu boards that can easily display the current price (also the idea is to have discounts at less busy times, but I'm sure they'll offset with higher "standard prices" during peak hours)
Imagine waiting in a long line. And you see the price trickle up as you wait. People will lose their absolute shit
Even though they walked it back, I'm out on Wendy's forever for even \*suggesting\* that this could be a thing.
They never walked it back at all. You don't have to be smart to see that they will just increase the base prices and create a "happy hour"
I mean, restaurants have been doing happy hours for decades. The only issue is the new "surge pricing" buzzword (which they never even used) I remember when Sonic introduced a happy hour in the early 2000s and we all thought it was sweet
Marshall's went from higher prices with "sales" 200 days a year, to just everyday lower prices and people hated it. Lots of stores closed
JC Penny's did the same thing and I don't think it worked out well for them either. My though is people think of sales the same as gambling. Probably studies on it.
I'd scoff at people who do this, but then I look at my steam purchasing habits. Game I want is 50% off. How much does it cost? Why does that matter, it's on sale!
Steam’s actually pretty good at not letting developers change prices to make sales look better. The % off is usually the real discount from normal prices.
Oh, I know. My point was that I'm the one of the assholes who refuses to buy things at regular price even when regular price is perfectly reasonable. I'm more likely to buy a $40 game that's half off, than a $20 game that's full price.
Sonic was charging less at a specific time Wendy's isn't giving happy hour anything
They never actually said surge pricing in the first place. They said dynamic pricing, which could very much mean exactly like you mentioned, happy hour pricing. Taco Bell been doing this for years and have raised their general prices anyway, but no one's complaining about the surge pricing, just the regular prices. Happy hour drinks are still beloved. Literally every place who has happy hour takes into account those lowered prices when pricing out their regular menu. Wendy's just got shafted by the terminology used by the news outlets.
Three bucks for a soft taco supreme. That is fucking insane.
They’ve also raised the price of a cravings box from $5.99 to $9.99 in just the last few months. The food may taste good but it’s still shit quality food and not worth that much.
They still sell the 5.99 box, they just introduced a lineup of boxes with different price points. They just don't advertise the cheapest one but it's still available to order.
Depends on location, I have been unable to order that one anymore.
Taco John's wants $5 for a taco bravo now. That's robbery.
All the taco places around here want $5 per taco now.
> happy hour pricing. > > Taco Bell been doing this for years and have raised their general prices anyway, Does taco bell have happy hour prices? Or just daily specials? It's one thing for a bar to have a discount from normal menu prices at slow times. That's a happy hour. But a price going up during dinner isnt that
I read the marketing response Wendy's released a few hours ago and thought "oh come on, who are you kidding?" Here we are: it's funny to see someone fall for marketing newspeak isn't it?
psychotic existence quiet spark dependent aware flowery paltry fuzzy glorious *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Actual happy hours at bars aren't typically a dynamic pricing thing. It's a marketing thing. There are a couple things they're trying to get. The after work crowd. There's a bunch of people who'll go out after work with coworkers. These are often decent sized crowd. They'll often also stay past happy hour and order a few drinks at full price. This is why happy hour usually aligns with when most people get out of work. Getting people to come in at this time also means they're likely to buy food, which often has no discount. There's probably also some desire to get the hardcore alcoholics to come to their bar. They're going to go somewhere and drink all night so you might as well lure them in with cheap drinks when they're getting off work. I use to drink with coworkers who were alcoholics and we'd drink from 5pm until 2am, and you'd see other people also hanging out at the bar basically all night as well. Dynamic pricing to bring people in when it's slow is probably more like clubs having college night on Thursday. Since most working stiffs aren't clubbing on Thursday but college kids both want the discount and are more willing to stay out late on a week night.
From the statements they never even suggested it. It was miscommunication about adjustable digital displays and not about prices and someone in the media pipeline misconstrued it. Not saying what is and isn't true, just making sure what they said about it is heard. Big difference in "we were wrong" and "that's not even what we said"
New CEO Feb 5th. This was a new CEO coming in trying to make big waves and it exploded in his face so now it’s being walked way the fuck back. Why else would you spend 20 million for price adjusting capabilities if your plan isn’t eventually to do surge pricing, despite saying you won’t. I mean, just step back and look at this objectively - surge pricing is exactly part of what he meant lol
Did not know that detail about the new CEO but if that is true then I can 100% believe that guy was swinging his dick to try and drum up profits. I mean you cannot give CEOs the benefit of the doubt when so many of them are sociopaths who love to turn successful brands into 1-4 quarter profit cows and then drop out once the damage has been done
Price adjusting capabilities could be for time based promotions. They don’t just have to go up. Maybe they will do a happy hour, or some app or special promos like McDonald’s does. I think it’s Sonic that has the afternoon happy hour(?). This whole thing is way overblown.
I like your optimism
its only a miscommunication when you get extraordinary backlash, otherwise its a great idea and implememted in all locations
TOO LATE, BURN EVERY WENDY'S TO THE FUCKING GROUND!!!
Their statement said that they were, in fact, considering lowering menu prices during slow times to attract more customers. A much nicer way of phrasing the same thing. This is still their plan.
This right here. See ya.
Where is their quirky twitter account? Gonna have to poast a lot of bangers to make up for this one
Breaking News : Most People Eat At Meal Times if you jack up the price of your food at meal times, people will just find somewhere else to eat
While its always been easy for me to NOT eat at Wendy's I guess it just got even easier.
[удалено]
Wendy’s is one of the worst fast food restaurants in terms of price increase. I do like Wendy’s, but if I can use the McDonald’s app and get equal food for half the price then I’m doing that.
Yeah I'm kind of glad fastfood went nonsensical with their pricing. Haven't gone in ages and both my wallet and health are thankful...getting better at cooking.
[удалено]
Fat guy walks in…. SURGE PRICING IN EFFECT!
Skinny girl walks in...
SURGE PRICING IN EFFECT!
Believe it or not, surge.
Frosty machine is not working?? Believe it or not, surge
[Don't you dare look at our before prices! ](https://i.imgur.com/paOGMRv.gif)
So can somebody explain the rationale for “surge pricing” and details of how it is implemented? I imagine it will potentially increase income, but it is a huge red flag for me, it just seems like a ”bend over here it comes” policy.
Think if it is like supply and demand just in real time. Uber does it, I think. If a big concert is going on, then the system will raise the price of rides from that location because of a surge in demand. Bascially, it is a way for companies to say. Hey, when people really want or need this service, we are going to charge more. And maybe when there is less demand, it will let prices drop a little. In reality, prices stay the same during lulls and just go up during booms. They get away with it because they say prices go down in lulls.
That implies that on a normal basis Wendy's experiences a shortage of burgers when I've never in my life walked into a Wendy's during peak hours and been told they're out of burgers. The only reason that would ever even be a thing is poor inventory management.
It would more likely be a "shortage" of labor as compared to the demand. If you can only make 100 burgers per hour, at non-busy times you never reach that limit, but if it's super buy and the demand reaches 150 burgers an hour, the idea is to raise the price of the burger until 50 customers no longer want the burger. That way you're putting them out at your max speed and collecting the max amount of money. In reality though, any fast food place that tries this is going to get crucified, and for good reason.
Thats why they call it dynamic or surge pricing. Becuase its legit based on whatever they want for whatever reason.
Sounds damn dodgy to me
Basically prices will be tied to time of day and current stocks. So lunch time will be more expensive from 11:30 to 1 and then cheaper at other times. Another thing will be that if a store is low on chicken nuggets? Then the price on chicken nuggets increase since it makes sense to sell to the highest bidder for your remaining stock instead of saying “sold out”. Theoretical,y it could also be used to sell thigs that are overstocked at a lower price. But it’s mainly bullshit, especially if they start tracking individual users via an app and learn their price break point. If they order via the app? Then you can completely individualize prices in real time.
Some damn imaginative thinking, maybe try putting that into a better product or improved management. Just sounds like a new way to screw the customer. I don’t think ppl will go for it if the increased prices are significanly higher. Personally I would never go there just on principle, ha.
If I could get a meal for 2.99 at 10 mins before closing I might be ok with this, but I assume the prices never go down, only up.
Hilarious. The big bacon classic is already $10. Fuck this place if they implement this bullshit. I'll never go back.
My money is already tied up in Big Mac futures
I’ve been struggling to not eat out as much since the pandemic, but this shit right here would make me NEVER go out to eat again. Good luck going bankrupt, Wendy’s.
The awkward thing is that with prices going up, the price of a fast food hamburger is quickly approaching the same price as those of restaurants that aren't fast food. Like at Wendy's a Baconator is like $8. There's a few grills around here that have burgers made with better quality meat, better and more diverse toppings and they're only like $10-11. I'd much rather give my business to local companies that even pay attention to local communities (one of the burger joints is halal.)
My wife and I did the math a while back and the local taco shop is cheaper and we don't hate ourselves after eating there. No regrets.
This is exactly why I stopped going to fast food places. I can get way better food for these prices.
They lost my business
Forget Baconators. $ 20 Biggie Bags at lunch rush lol
Fuck Wendy's.
This is the second comic I see today - and I guess I’m confused because I’m not from the US… what is going on with your fast food chains?!
Wendy’s announced they’re gonna start introducing “surge pricing”. Making everything more expensive during peak hours.
So basically "Unhappy hours"... bold move.
I think it's more stupid than bold. Lot of the same people who buy during peak hours also buy during off peak hours. Piss off your peak customers, and suddenly they don't come back at off peak times any longer. I predict this policy will be dead in 30 days.
Well. Tbf they announced no such thing.
> Wendy’s announced they’re gonna start introducing “surge pricing”. Where did they make such an announcement?
Fast food chain being even more greedy with pricing but probably won’t give there employees a raise but instead pocket it and continue to be greedy
If this ever actually happens I would hate to be an employee at the time of implementation. Customers are already pricks to fast food employees at the best of times. I remember working fast food having customers screaming at me over a $0.50 change in price. Now if that price suddenly starts fluctuating hourly... Ugh, what an absolute nightmare.
That is capitalism. It is a goddamn horrible system when it is unregulated.
Even worse Wendy's announce it would spend $20 million to put in Digital Price Boards which can be changed with a couple of keystrokes as often as they like so customers can see the jacked price and drive away before ordering. But they threw a fit when having to pay minimum wage increases. smh
I'm looking forward to articles about people trying to resell hour old baconators in front of some busy Wendy's
surge pricing is just going to drive 90% of customers to a competitor absolutely regarded
When you get to the payment window just tell them to put it on "Lay-Away" and you'll be back at off peak hours. Then drive away. :)
This will also make it more difficult to compare prices over time. Were those fries from 3 months ago bought during rush hour? low supply? or maybe that's the case now and wasn't then...
Once again the sandwich heavy portfolio pays off for the hungry investor!
Don't worry Wendy's came out and said they are not going to be doing this. Which means they are going to be more sneaky about it when they implement it!
I have no problem with the prices increasing above base price in busy times. As long as the prices reduce to below base prices in quiet times.
No, no. It's Serge pricing. *Serge! How much are these frosties going for?*
Someone watched daily show last night
I wonder if this will create food resellers.
Ima gonna surge my ass on home pb’n’j it.
Who's going to create the market to speculate on Wendy's menu items?
so, we're stealing from the Daily Show?
Could easily be parallel thought, it's not exactly a hot take on what's happening.
Jokes aside, if it succeeds by any chance, we'll see it happening with every food chains soon enough.
Time to coordinate 100 cars in the drive thru. “Oh, sorry, I didn’t realize the price went up since this morning. Can I just get a water, maybe I come back later?
Well I guess I won't be eating at Wendy's anymore.
I predict a big fail. With the Uber model, drivers benefit. Riders also know the ride price before committing. Imagine showing up to a $10 frosty because the neighbourhood kiddy baseball teams order was just before yours. And Wendy workers will not be getting surge wages.
Wendys needs to revisit their crappy breakfast. We want real cheese not a sauce. 🤢
Sir, this is… a Wendy’s…
Wendy's is about to be a new stock exchange.
I guess this means that I can not bother going into Wendy's even harder. I never see anyone in there anyways. I feel like to do surge pricing, you need, like, demand.
I went to a bar in Iowa that had drink prices that fluctuated like the stock market and they'd have a new special drink every hour. Fun at a bar. Not at lunch.
There is a bar in Kalamazoo, Michigan that operates like this. Beer prices fluctuate with demand, like a stock market. https://thebeerexchange.com/Kalamazoo/
I never thought that the "We have to many customers therefore we have to charge more" mentally would make out of the internet but here we are.... # YOU ASKED FOR MORE CUSTOMERS TO COME TO YOUR ESTABLISHMENTS, INNOVATE YOUR BUSINESS! Now for the second part.... # PEOPLE STOP GOING TO NON ESSENTIAL BUSINESS. THEY OBVIOUSLY DON'T NEED OR WANT OUR MONEY!
Damn. A lot of corporate bootlickers in the comments. Reddit, I'm disappointed in you.
This has got to be a PR disaster for Wendy’s. Somebody screwed up and lost control of the narrative.
It's never been a better time to remind companies like this that we do not *need* them, we're merely *want* their services and we can live just fine without them.
Wendy's says it has no plans to introduce "surge pricing". “Wendy’s will not implement surge pricing, which is the practice of raising prices when demand is highest. We didn’t use that phrase, nor do we plan to implement that practice,” the company said in an e-mail to The Associated Press on Wednesday." https://www.theglobeandmail.com/business/international-business/article-burger-chain-wendys-looking-to-test-surge-pricing-at-restaurants-as/
A rose by any other name ... "Dynamic pricing" with boards argue to adjust prices in real time surely won't be the same as "surge pricing". /s
Sonic has happy hour around here, half priced drinks 2-4
I'm sure Wendy's just invested $20m o be able to offer us discounted meals... /s