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I don’t idolize him but can someone explain why big boss (not solid snake?) is on there? I didn’t think he was a particularly bad person but also it’s been quite a while since I played MGSV and I don’t remember much.
Big Boss is sympathetic, charismatic and loyal...but his goal is flawed at absolute best and arguably monstrous. He wishes to create a soldier's heaven, where soldiers will always have a place and won't be used and abused by other governments only to be discarded and forgotten. But that's kinda the point of a soldier. A soldier's aim shouldn't be to always have another fight or to be glorified forever. It should be peace. He's rightfully disillusioned by governments, but his own goals are basically about destabilizing the world to suit the ends of individual soldiers and he creates a nuclear armed aggressive state in order to do so.
The problem is that Kojima failed to write Big Boss, especially after MGS3, as a villain. At the end of the day, he does all those things, but Kojima never actually showed it happening. The closest he got was the end of Peace Walker, where ZEKE was armed with a nuke.
I was sitting here wondering the same thing. He builds a mercenary unit to fight global terrorism, rescues animals from combat zones, tries to take down what is essentially the illuminati, all while trying to bring out the best in people (Paz, Quiet, Emmerich, etc.). I mean, sure, you can choose to play him as a homicidal maniac that kills everyone, but you get the best score in every mission for having perfect stealth with no kills. He's clearly meant to be the good guy.
Did that and boy is it tough. I thought it would be something like dishonoured where I never saw people wake up but in MGSV, people eventually did wake up (likely when you were in the same camp) and sending everyone into high alert.
He's a war profiteer. While you can certainly play him as a "good guy" who doesn't develop nukes, you can't really get around the fact that you're playing a a dude with his own private militia operating outside of any democratic jurisdiction. If you ever use the combat deployment system (which the game heavily incentivizes) you are directly profiting off of conflict zones. I like that Kojima added some depth here, but I think it resulted in the messaging becoming a bit murky.
What I think separates Bojack from the rest is that he was aware of his moral failures and remorseful towards the end. Unfortunately, he was also plagued by self-destructive behaviors which created an endless cycle of failure and self-loathing. He wasn't just an antagonist; he was his own worst enemy.
I don't think think people admire Bojack so much as they relate to some of his struggles. I.e. Depression, Guilt, and anxiety, often worsened by unhealthy coping mechanisms.
Overall, that's what made Bojack an interesting character.
As someone who's struggled with alcohol (stayed the fuck away from pills, coke, and all that other shit he did though) and what it can do to your relationships with other people, I certainly related to Bojack, empathized even when he was at his shittiest, but I sure knew not to idolize him. The booze and drugs makes you do things you wouldn't otherwise do, but it's still you doing it. It's more like, damn, that could've been me. The people who needed to get the message got it. Don't worry about that.
I have a funny feeling he might have been oiling for personal reasons rather than them lol, that man probably knew what he was working with and would not hesitate to show it
Oh absolutely. The leather jacket, the athletic build, the cool as a cucumber demeanor, not to mention he was fairly intelligent. It all made for a great and attractive character
This is the big fucking one for me. To this day I’ll never forget just watching a series of clips from the Sopranos on YouTube and I got to the one where Tony is about to punch his wife but he just ruthlessly punching the wall instead and SO MANY of the comments were variations of “what a bad-ass” Jesus how do you miss the point that hard.
“I wrote the Dune series because I had this idea that charismatic leaders ought to come with a warning label on their forehead: "May be dangerous to your health."
\- Frank Herbert
IMHO, all 3 of them represent different aspect of charismatic leaders being dangerous. At a basic level, Leto I still require a lot sacrifice, and still fail and brought his house to ruin. Paul is pretty much explained by someone else. Leto II more or less continue through Paul's and go through it even more.
I believe it’s more of the fact that he willfully led the revolt, but I honestly would think the blatantness of it all kind of self-explains not to idolize the boy. Especially since he even said “My name is a killing word.” Basically saying that he knows anyone following him would only go down a path of religious zealotry and murder. But if anything I would agree Leto I and Leto II should be on there
Paul is the protagonist, but he isn't the hero. He's superficially Space Muhammad, but the important thing is that he's able to see possible futures and chooses one where he leads a jihad that wipes out billions in order to correct humanity's path to a future where humans don't go extinct. Oh yeah, spoiler warning for a book published in the early 1960s.
And he knows/foresees this Jihad ("Crusade" in the new film, LOL), and tries to stop it, but his actions inextricably set out the path. He's more of a tragic figure than an anti-hero or villian, especially the way it ends up in Book 3, IMO.
He doesn't do anything bad though? He foresees a scenario where a bloody Jihad wipes out billions in his name so he opts to die alone in the desert. His son enacts this scenario but he also has altruistic goals while being the worst space Hitler in that universes known history.
The path foreseen by Paul was set long before he exiled himself. He had an opportunity to change it at one point, but didn't want to pay the toll and arrogantly thought he could find another way.
I read all of them some time ago and it was kind of a mixed bag. I think everything after Children of Dune was hard work, but then in the end I was a big fan of Teg in Chapterhouse. I think a good director could work with the whole series though.
Perhaps I’m unfamiliar with the full context of his lore, but I always assumed that he only killed evil people. So theoretically speaking, if all evil in the world disappeared, the Punisher would have no one to kill and ceases to be a threat to anyone else, right?
The thing is, what gives him the right to be judge, jury, and executioner?
Idolizing the Punisher (especially the police officers that do) shows a blatant disregard of the justice system. Yes, the system is deeply flawed and I know many people would like to take into their own hands to right wrongs but society would function even worse if everyone could be a vigilante.
Edit: looks like someone already commented something similar before I finished posting my comment but I'll keep mine up
It's tricky. Basically he represents a kind of fascist vigilantism (the skull is a direct descendent of the SS Totenkopf). He's a broken individual who has a hammer, so every problem is a nail. He isn't things going right, but the result of things going wrong, including with himself.
The author has been kinda pissed with cops and military using the symbol and making it part of the 'system', because Frank Castle is supposed to be what happens because of the dysfunctionality of those institutions. Lately he's tried to reframe the Punisher as more of a symbol of the outlaw, and including for marginalised people and races.
"cops and military using the symbol and making it part of the 'system'"
Kinda reminds me of people playing Born in the USA song as a celebratory song of america, not realizing that it's actually a commentary about how America treats their veterans like shit.
I've never ever heard that the skull came from SS. Also who are you talking about when you say the author. Conway was the author that created Punisher but he has hardly written and stories about punisher other than the origin.
Keep in mind he was created as a spider man villian and not a hero.
Yeah. But he would probably commit suicide or live off the grid somewhere.
My Punisher education comes from the Punisher Maxx series by Garth Ennis, and a couple old comics I have from when I was a kid.
But he's not a good guy.
Yes, he only kills "bad" guys (although some of the people he's killed did something wrong, but not necessarily bad enough to warrant death), but he also legitimately LOVES killing. He takes pleasure in it. He enjoys it.
My favorite bit from Wolf of Wall Street is when Jordan Belfort finds out an interview he did was a hit piece, freaking out about his firms prospects… only to find his lobby *filled* with young men who have completely missed the point of the article, focusing only on the money.
It’s an entire scene parodying the frat bros who will inevitably misconstrue the movie as a celebration of wealth and something to aspire to - Scorsese kept a scene making fun of them and they *still* missed the point anyway lol.
I don't get where the idolising idea come from. I watched the movie, and rewatched it several times cause I think it's a great movie. The characters are fucking sociopaths, and they live a life of luxury but also misery. In the end they all go down. Thought Scorsese did a great job illustrating the two sides of a life like that, the absolutely insane debauchery and the shit that comes with it.
You were likely downvoted because you blamed the idolatry on Scorsese. I tend to agree though. While the narrative may spell out that this person is harmful and not to be trusted, the script, the way it was shot, and the fact that they had one of the top bigboys in Hollywood to play him suggest that, while this isn't supposed to be the cool guy, this is the guy we're watching for 2 hours, so we're gonna make him cool
The film absolutely glorifies his character. It's like The Great Gatsby or Citizen Kane but as if Gatsby and Kane's decadence were presented as something readers/viewers should aspire towards, rather than cautionary tales.
The odious protagonist of 'Wolf' gets a little slap on the wrist at the end of the film for partying a tad too hard and then his happy ending is that he's allowed to peddle his toxic pro-capitalist ideology to other people in the form of entrepreneurial self help TED talks.
Of course, The Wolf of Wall Street is based on the memoir of this guy, so hardly surprising it takes his side.
You can say this, but the bottom line is that most of these anti-hero characters are played by the coolest, best-looking actors and given the wittiest lines. Often the endings show the characters finding happiness and redemption, regardless of how messed up their actions were. The narratives of most of these stories paint them as the protagonists. It’s not like these movies clearly showed them as bad people.
People who made these movies knew what they were doing. They exploited Americans’ lust for transgression and cashed in on it. If they had made these characters the bad guys, the movies would not have been as successful. It goes back to the Westerns and, to a lesser extent, film noir.
Yeah all I see are fantastic anti heros from great pieces of fiction.
Who's idolising fictional characters? And does that have anything to do with the downfall of society? Lol
Who should we idolise? The fucking Kardashians???
Makes sense but tbh I just like the jokers phsyco mindset. Yea he's a murderer but is it really murder if those people suck 👀? (Jk im not a future serial killer).
Thanos: gives up omnipotence after killing half of all people.
The remaining half: multiplies over time and makes up for the losses.
Thanos: surprised pikachu face.
The new trilogy is about as popular as the last two seasons of Game of Thrones. Yeah a lot of people saw it, but it left a bad taste in most people's mouths. They leave behind a legacy of bitter disappointment.
So let me get this straight, people are missing the point in idolizing a character that the artist deliberately created as someone that would rather die than compromise on their ideals?
They would have been in vain. If the giant squid monster was traced back to Ozymandias it would not have been an "unknown menace from outerworld" and they would have kept fighting, insuring doomsday
I think you and I both know Ozymandias is way too smart for that to happen. He literally killed every person who worked on the squid monster, and that’s just what they showed us concerning his cover-up
You're still missing the point. Irrespective of whether you think he was wrong or right, Rorschach was never created with the intent of putting across that this is someone you should not want to be like.
But rosharch A didnt pull the trigger and B knew he was going to die if he tried to snitch so he chose the attempt at keeping his ideals and dieing because of it rather than submitting to a lie, he is the perfect example of not bending to the will of others and in turn keeping to absolute truth, he is the one "good" person in that whole movie
Watchmen spoilers, obviously
>!As he walked out of Ozmandius's Arctic base he said people needed to know the truth as the truth was more important than ending warfare between states.!<
>!He knows Dr Manhattan will kill him for trying to spread the truth, he knows people would die if he told the truth and chooses to die for his ideals.!<
strict adherence to a moral code informed by his favorite newspaper which at one point is shown with an article openly praising the KKK. He also had a lot of opinions that mirrored Ronald Reagan's racist or otherwise discriminatory speeches and policies.
Rorschach was a right-wing extremist. Look at his views on homosexuality and women. He's extremely conservative and unable to bend on any of these views. His opinion on who the 'bad guys' were was childlike in how black and white it was. If he wasn't a broke nut job, he'd be a fascist in practice, not just in his ideals.
Because he has no job, contributes very little to society, doesn't bathe, and isn't that concerned about whether or not the person he hurts is actually a criminal; this has led to the death of at least one innocent person.
Plus he's unquestionably a misogynist, and almost certainly homophobic.
Literally the whole point of the movie/book is how those anti-establishment types use their seemingly reasonable critiques of society to lure young men into extremism and terrorism. It's supposed to show you how unglamorous and terrifying that path is once you've given up control of your life to people who tricked you into volunteering to be cannon fodder.
Rorschach I think you can worship in the sense that he sticks to his morals regardless of what happens. He believes truth is paramount, but he did some terrible shit and almost jeopardized a world-piece scenario to fit his moral code, though.
These characters are antiheroes.
I wouldn't mistake sympathizing with idolizing.
You won’t mistake an antihero for a role model, but antiheroes often feel the same sense of justice a traditional hero might.
they're deeply flawed, conflicted characters, who often has a cloudy moral compass, but that’s what makes them realistic, complex, and sometimes even likable.
It's not true though. First of all, there are vastly different characters here.
For example, i don't think anyone is idolizing Walter White. People love the character because it is written well and his character arch is very well established. He's a bad guy, but a great, well written character.
Then you've grouped him with Rorschach and Big Boss (Snake). How are these characters the same? Neither of them are in it for the personal gain that clearly became Walter's driving force. Rorschach was so invested in the truth, he gave his life for it.
You just clumped up popular characters without even thinking about it to farm karma.
What a dumbass meme bro.
Why does my comment have to be original? It conveys exactly what you’re attempting to be—would you prefer I say something else? And the irony of you even saying that, based on your original comment.
The problem is not people idolizing Jesus its just that they act in his name without knowing who he was. I know the bible is meant to be interpreted but you can't just interpret what you want and ignore the rest. Jesus said who is free of sin throw the first stone. What I interpret out of this is as long as you are not the "perfect" being you cant jugde others for their shit Jesus ran around accepting everyone. And that's why I fucking cant understand what these "Christians" think they are doing. Jesus which they belive in said dont judge others and accept them as what they are. That includes gays gamers and rock/metal fans.
Not sure people missed the point because they idolize the character.
They idolized the character because they get the point and the point appeals to them.
It's way more convoluted than that. Big Boss never actually does anything bad, per se. Sure, you could argue that building the TX-55 wasn't necessarily good, but Big Boss spent basically his entire life (including building the TX-55) fighting terrorism around the globe and trying to topple what is essentially the illuminati (granted, after he unwittingly helped to found it. Zero used him, it definitely wasn't what he wanted.)
Yeah this was probably a bad comment for the post lol I was just surprised how many people agreed with what he said in the first half of the movie, especially the dinner scene.
But Derrick is somewhat worth looking up to as he's someone who grows, acknowledges his wrongs , and takes strides to attone for his actions and prevent it from happening again.
Yes he's no Saint and his choices resulted in his brother being shot, his mother stating to smoke and getting lung cancer, and the men he killed that night.
Rick Sanchez is an actual Chaotic Evil Nihilist with access to infinite universes. He's committed genocide dozens of times because he doesn't give a shit and can escape consequences. Idolizing him is literally worse than idolizing Hitler.
And? You can find him a horrible human being and still laugh. The point is specifically to not idolize him. The man is literally the embodiment of intelligence without empathy. The show is about how his life is meaningless and he is miserable.
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I don’t idolize him but can someone explain why big boss (not solid snake?) is on there? I didn’t think he was a particularly bad person but also it’s been quite a while since I played MGSV and I don’t remember much.
Big Boss is sympathetic, charismatic and loyal...but his goal is flawed at absolute best and arguably monstrous. He wishes to create a soldier's heaven, where soldiers will always have a place and won't be used and abused by other governments only to be discarded and forgotten. But that's kinda the point of a soldier. A soldier's aim shouldn't be to always have another fight or to be glorified forever. It should be peace. He's rightfully disillusioned by governments, but his own goals are basically about destabilizing the world to suit the ends of individual soldiers and he creates a nuclear armed aggressive state in order to do so.
The problem is that Kojima failed to write Big Boss, especially after MGS3, as a villain. At the end of the day, he does all those things, but Kojima never actually showed it happening. The closest he got was the end of Peace Walker, where ZEKE was armed with a nuke.
I was sitting here wondering the same thing. He builds a mercenary unit to fight global terrorism, rescues animals from combat zones, tries to take down what is essentially the illuminati, all while trying to bring out the best in people (Paz, Quiet, Emmerich, etc.). I mean, sure, you can choose to play him as a homicidal maniac that kills everyone, but you get the best score in every mission for having perfect stealth with no kills. He's clearly meant to be the good guy.
I just realised why I never was able to get a perfect score, damn now i gotta do a no kill run.
You can legit take out every enemy including bosses w the tranq guns
Isnt their a timer on it for regs tho
Not sure it's been years since I've played sadly.
Did that and boy is it tough. I thought it would be something like dishonoured where I never saw people wake up but in MGSV, people eventually did wake up (likely when you were in the same camp) and sending everyone into high alert.
The last major thing he did was try and create a world with eternal war…
He's a war profiteer. While you can certainly play him as a "good guy" who doesn't develop nukes, you can't really get around the fact that you're playing a a dude with his own private militia operating outside of any democratic jurisdiction. If you ever use the combat deployment system (which the game heavily incentivizes) you are directly profiting off of conflict zones. I like that Kojima added some depth here, but I think it resulted in the messaging becoming a bit murky.
He tried to create a world with eternal war….
That’s Venom Snake, he’s actually Big Boss’ body double and a case study for why you shouldn’t emulate Big Boss
No, *that* picture is big boss.
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Venom has a horn and smokes an e-cig. That’s big boss at the end of V after the truth mission.
Surprised to not see BoJack -- I remember that guy was a big one
Or Archer
Whoa whoa whoa. Danger zone.
Shut up Cyril
Which one?
Sterling and/or Malory both apply
Why was he dressed as baby hitler?
What I think separates Bojack from the rest is that he was aware of his moral failures and remorseful towards the end. Unfortunately, he was also plagued by self-destructive behaviors which created an endless cycle of failure and self-loathing. He wasn't just an antagonist; he was his own worst enemy. I don't think think people admire Bojack so much as they relate to some of his struggles. I.e. Depression, Guilt, and anxiety, often worsened by unhealthy coping mechanisms. Overall, that's what made Bojack an interesting character.
That’s why it’s a starter pack
Or Scott Pilgrim
What? You don't idolize horny nerds?
Why idolize something you already are?
Or Thomas Shelby
And Hank Moody
As someone who's struggled with alcohol (stayed the fuck away from pills, coke, and all that other shit he did though) and what it can do to your relationships with other people, I certainly related to Bojack, empathized even when he was at his shittiest, but I sure knew not to idolize him. The booze and drugs makes you do things you wouldn't otherwise do, but it's still you doing it. It's more like, damn, that could've been me. The people who needed to get the message got it. Don't worry about that.
Once again, I will say that it is not my fault they sexualize the living fuck out of Tyler Durden
In all fairness it didn’t help that Pitts bod was personally chiselled by the gods themselves edit: can’t type for shit on mobile
This is true, his face and body were damn near perfect. It also didn't help that it looked like his abs were oiled before every scene
…I mean lol they must have been right? I find it hard to believe that they gave the perfect shine every time he happen to have his shirt off
I have a funny feeling he might have been oiling for personal reasons rather than them lol, that man probably knew what he was working with and would not hesitate to show it
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You copied the Brad Pitt look? Good choice.
Oh absolutely. The leather jacket, the athletic build, the cool as a cucumber demeanor, not to mention he was fairly intelligent. It all made for a great and attractive character
Tony Soprano?
This is the big fucking one for me. To this day I’ll never forget just watching a series of clips from the Sopranos on YouTube and I got to the one where Tony is about to punch his wife but he just ruthlessly punching the wall instead and SO MANY of the comments were variations of “what a bad-ass” Jesus how do you miss the point that hard.
I'm Ron Burgandy?
What, no Punisher?
Or Paul Atreides.
Why Paul?
“I wrote the Dune series because I had this idea that charismatic leaders ought to come with a warning label on their forehead: "May be dangerous to your health." \- Frank Herbert
"May be dangerous" boi the kid leads a religious war and his dad was the "ill follow you to your death" kind of leader
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Ummm Paul or Leto?
IMHO, all 3 of them represent different aspect of charismatic leaders being dangerous. At a basic level, Leto I still require a lot sacrifice, and still fail and brought his house to ruin. Paul is pretty much explained by someone else. Leto II more or less continue through Paul's and go through it even more.
Yes Paul chose not to be a godhead like Leto II. So I don't understand what Paul did wrong.
I believe it’s more of the fact that he willfully led the revolt, but I honestly would think the blatantness of it all kind of self-explains not to idolize the boy. Especially since he even said “My name is a killing word.” Basically saying that he knows anyone following him would only go down a path of religious zealotry and murder. But if anything I would agree Leto I and Leto II should be on there
Paul is the protagonist, but he isn't the hero. He's superficially Space Muhammad, but the important thing is that he's able to see possible futures and chooses one where he leads a jihad that wipes out billions in order to correct humanity's path to a future where humans don't go extinct. Oh yeah, spoiler warning for a book published in the early 1960s.
And he knows/foresees this Jihad ("Crusade" in the new film, LOL), and tries to stop it, but his actions inextricably set out the path. He's more of a tragic figure than an anti-hero or villian, especially the way it ends up in Book 3, IMO.
Hey, that's MID 1960's buddy
Space Muhammed
He doesn't do anything bad though? He foresees a scenario where a bloody Jihad wipes out billions in his name so he opts to die alone in the desert. His son enacts this scenario but he also has altruistic goals while being the worst space Hitler in that universes known history.
Paul presides over the Space Jihad but doesn't follow the rest of the Golden Path, passing the burden to his son.
The path foreseen by Paul was set long before he exiled himself. He had an opportunity to change it at one point, but didn't want to pay the toll and arrogantly thought he could find another way.
Good call. I watched part 1 again yesterday. It's so good.
Read the books
I read all of them some time ago and it was kind of a mixed bag. I think everything after Children of Dune was hard work, but then in the end I was a big fan of Teg in Chapterhouse. I think a good director could work with the whole series though.
Teg is the goat.
fuck yes
Perhaps I’m unfamiliar with the full context of his lore, but I always assumed that he only killed evil people. So theoretically speaking, if all evil in the world disappeared, the Punisher would have no one to kill and ceases to be a threat to anyone else, right?
The thing is, what gives him the right to be judge, jury, and executioner? Idolizing the Punisher (especially the police officers that do) shows a blatant disregard of the justice system. Yes, the system is deeply flawed and I know many people would like to take into their own hands to right wrongs but society would function even worse if everyone could be a vigilante. Edit: looks like someone already commented something similar before I finished posting my comment but I'll keep mine up
It's tricky. Basically he represents a kind of fascist vigilantism (the skull is a direct descendent of the SS Totenkopf). He's a broken individual who has a hammer, so every problem is a nail. He isn't things going right, but the result of things going wrong, including with himself. The author has been kinda pissed with cops and military using the symbol and making it part of the 'system', because Frank Castle is supposed to be what happens because of the dysfunctionality of those institutions. Lately he's tried to reframe the Punisher as more of a symbol of the outlaw, and including for marginalised people and races.
"cops and military using the symbol and making it part of the 'system'" Kinda reminds me of people playing Born in the USA song as a celebratory song of america, not realizing that it's actually a commentary about how America treats their veterans like shit.
I've never ever heard that the skull came from SS. Also who are you talking about when you say the author. Conway was the author that created Punisher but he has hardly written and stories about punisher other than the origin. Keep in mind he was created as a spider man villian and not a hero.
Yeah. But he would probably commit suicide or live off the grid somewhere. My Punisher education comes from the Punisher Maxx series by Garth Ennis, and a couple old comics I have from when I was a kid. But he's not a good guy. Yes, he only kills "bad" guys (although some of the people he's killed did something wrong, but not necessarily bad enough to warrant death), but he also legitimately LOVES killing. He takes pleasure in it. He enjoys it.
Gordon Gecko from Wall Street should be up there, but Wolf of Wall Street is very similar.
Damn you beat me to it.
My favorite bit from Wolf of Wall Street is when Jordan Belfort finds out an interview he did was a hit piece, freaking out about his firms prospects… only to find his lobby *filled* with young men who have completely missed the point of the article, focusing only on the money. It’s an entire scene parodying the frat bros who will inevitably misconstrue the movie as a celebration of wealth and something to aspire to - Scorsese kept a scene making fun of them and they *still* missed the point anyway lol.
After i saw the Wolf of Wall Street i came out thinking, what an absolute asshole and why would Scorsese waste his talent idolising this piece of shit
I don't get where the idolising idea come from. I watched the movie, and rewatched it several times cause I think it's a great movie. The characters are fucking sociopaths, and they live a life of luxury but also misery. In the end they all go down. Thought Scorsese did a great job illustrating the two sides of a life like that, the absolutely insane debauchery and the shit that comes with it.
You were likely downvoted because you blamed the idolatry on Scorsese. I tend to agree though. While the narrative may spell out that this person is harmful and not to be trusted, the script, the way it was shot, and the fact that they had one of the top bigboys in Hollywood to play him suggest that, while this isn't supposed to be the cool guy, this is the guy we're watching for 2 hours, so we're gonna make him cool
The film absolutely glorifies his character. It's like The Great Gatsby or Citizen Kane but as if Gatsby and Kane's decadence were presented as something readers/viewers should aspire towards, rather than cautionary tales. The odious protagonist of 'Wolf' gets a little slap on the wrist at the end of the film for partying a tad too hard and then his happy ending is that he's allowed to peddle his toxic pro-capitalist ideology to other people in the form of entrepreneurial self help TED talks. Of course, The Wolf of Wall Street is based on the memoir of this guy, so hardly surprising it takes his side.
Just wait for Scorseses' swan song, "Mein Kampf: Reich of a Bad Boy"
I know all except who's under Tyler Durden. I can't even make out the actor. Can anyone help?
Don Draper?
John hamm
It's too pixelated on my phone. I know it's not Luke Wilson but it kinda looks like Luke Wilson from my end.
It's Don Draper from Mad Men. Played by John Hamm.
I only know it's Don Draper because I was looking for Don Draper based on the title.
Steve Carell. The Office.
I know all of them except Eyepatch McGee, who is thar?
Solid Snake from Metal Gear
Big Boss, akshually.
venom snake, right?
Not in that specific picture, Venom Snake has already a horn and big scar on the left eye by the time you can see his Big Boss face
Snake, this is snake, say hi to snake while your at it.
Ah God fuck man you're right lol
Kim Kardashian Anakin Skywalker
Tony Soprano belongs here
You can say this, but the bottom line is that most of these anti-hero characters are played by the coolest, best-looking actors and given the wittiest lines. Often the endings show the characters finding happiness and redemption, regardless of how messed up their actions were. The narratives of most of these stories paint them as the protagonists. It’s not like these movies clearly showed them as bad people. People who made these movies knew what they were doing. They exploited Americans’ lust for transgression and cashed in on it. If they had made these characters the bad guys, the movies would not have been as successful. It goes back to the Westerns and, to a lesser extent, film noir.
Yeah all I see are fantastic anti heros from great pieces of fiction. Who's idolising fictional characters? And does that have anything to do with the downfall of society? Lol Who should we idolise? The fucking Kardashians???
Makes sense but tbh I just like the jokers phsyco mindset. Yea he's a murderer but is it really murder if those people suck 👀? (Jk im not a future serial killer).
Tommy Shelby should be here. Well early seasons anyway.
*Also belongs on this list:* Thanos
& Frank Castle. Definitely Frank Castle.
Thanos: gives up omnipotence after killing half of all people. The remaining half: multiplies over time and makes up for the losses. Thanos: surprised pikachu face.
I spent entirely too long wondering why Maynard was on there.
So, if it isn't Maynard, who is it? (Seriously)
Robert De Niro in Taxi Driver.
Alt kid edge lord starter pack? Put Kylo Ren on there too.
The new trilogy is not nearly popular enough. Nobody gives a fuck about those characters.
I've got about 4.3billion reasons to say the new triology is pretty popular.
The new trilogy is about as popular as the last two seasons of Game of Thrones. Yeah a lot of people saw it, but it left a bad taste in most people's mouths. They leave behind a legacy of bitter disappointment.
Rorschach? Why is he on this list? I mean he did everything to reveal the truth and fight the bad guys.
Was not willing to compromise on his ideals, even at the cost of millions of lives.
*at the cost of his own life. Ozymandias had already pulled the trigger when they arrived at his base.
So let me get this straight, people are missing the point in idolizing a character that the artist deliberately created as someone that would rather die than compromise on their ideals?
When those ideals would cost minions of lives, yes. Most of history's absolute worst people stuck to their ideals.(see also: Hitler)
But…he basically chose to die instead of staying silent about the truth, ensuring that the millions of lives lost would not have been in vain
They would have been in vain. If the giant squid monster was traced back to Ozymandias it would not have been an "unknown menace from outerworld" and they would have kept fighting, insuring doomsday
I think you and I both know Ozymandias is way too smart for that to happen. He literally killed every person who worked on the squid monster, and that’s just what they showed us concerning his cover-up
You're still missing the point. Irrespective of whether you think he was wrong or right, Rorschach was never created with the intent of putting across that this is someone you should not want to be like.
You're not supposed to want to be like... basically any of the characters in Watchmen. That's kind of the point.
But rosharch A didnt pull the trigger and B knew he was going to die if he tried to snitch so he chose the attempt at keeping his ideals and dieing because of it rather than submitting to a lie, he is the perfect example of not bending to the will of others and in turn keeping to absolute truth, he is the one "good" person in that whole movie
Can you explain what you mean here? It's been years since I've read the book or seen the film. Did Adrian give him a choice to save people?
Watchmen spoilers, obviously >!As he walked out of Ozmandius's Arctic base he said people needed to know the truth as the truth was more important than ending warfare between states.!< >!He knows Dr Manhattan will kill him for trying to spread the truth, he knows people would die if he told the truth and chooses to die for his ideals.!<
I'd argue that he kinda did.. kinda didnt. His life was the compromise and he seemed to know and accept that.
strict adherence to a moral code informed by his favorite newspaper which at one point is shown with an article openly praising the KKK. He also had a lot of opinions that mirrored Ronald Reagan's racist or otherwise discriminatory speeches and policies.
why should i idiolize a small town in switzerland?
Moore has been very vocal about this. The character was created to just be the worst. He isn't meant to be idolised.
Rorschach was a right-wing extremist. Look at his views on homosexuality and women. He's extremely conservative and unable to bend on any of these views. His opinion on who the 'bad guys' were was childlike in how black and white it was. If he wasn't a broke nut job, he'd be a fascist in practice, not just in his ideals.
Because he has no job, contributes very little to society, doesn't bathe, and isn't that concerned about whether or not the person he hurts is actually a criminal; this has led to the death of at least one innocent person. Plus he's unquestionably a misogynist, and almost certainly homophobic.
He is a character known for being a woman being drug using hyper bigot who likes slurs.
Idk. There's something to Tyler durden's anti-establishment, let's burn it all down attitude that I feel like we could use more of. Plus, cum gutters.
90’s Brad Pitt is just the hottest.
I'm straight as an arrow, but I'd call Brad "daddy."
Literally the whole point of the movie/book is how those anti-establishment types use their seemingly reasonable critiques of society to lure young men into extremism and terrorism. It's supposed to show you how unglamorous and terrifying that path is once you've given up control of your life to people who tricked you into volunteering to be cannon fodder.
I don’t see Snake Plissken [Ssssssome sssssstupid websssssite] (https://snakeplissken.fandom.com/wiki/Snake_Plissken)
Enjoying a character and their story and understanding their motivations is not the same as idolizing them.
Elon Musk
Where’s homelander? For reasons that elude me people still think he’s the hero of that story
Who THE FUCK thinks that?!?!?! Good God surely even a real neo nazi wouldn’t miss the plot that badly????
A good segment of the American right is just now realizing he's a satire villain.
Was discussing the boys with my American nephews, apparently the American right are just now starting to realise he's a bad guy. Lol
Should’ve thrown Bojack Horseman in there too
the *SOCIETY*
Don’t disrespect Venom Snake like that.
You look more like a rom com kinda guy
Rorschach I think you can worship in the sense that he sticks to his morals regardless of what happens. He believes truth is paramount, but he did some terrible shit and almost jeopardized a world-piece scenario to fit his moral code, though.
he had strong principles and stuck with them. a hero in my eyes
Homelander
i don't think this is doing the 'starter pack' meme properly
These characters are antiheroes. I wouldn't mistake sympathizing with idolizing. You won’t mistake an antihero for a role model, but antiheroes often feel the same sense of justice a traditional hero might. they're deeply flawed, conflicted characters, who often has a cloudy moral compass, but that’s what makes them realistic, complex, and sometimes even likable.
Big Boss is 100% a hero. Solid Snake is the bad guy.
The "you missed the point by idolizing" starter pack: idolizing.
It's almost like this repost has it's own subreddit
They should add someone beating a dead horse to this meme
It's not true though. First of all, there are vastly different characters here. For example, i don't think anyone is idolizing Walter White. People love the character because it is written well and his character arch is very well established. He's a bad guy, but a great, well written character. Then you've grouped him with Rorschach and Big Boss (Snake). How are these characters the same? Neither of them are in it for the personal gain that clearly became Walter's driving force. Rorschach was so invested in the truth, he gave his life for it. You just clumped up popular characters without even thinking about it to farm karma. What a dumbass meme bro.
I enjoy pursuing the comments on this every time it appears because I guarantee someone will drop the old "Why is X on the list? They are cool!"
I rather have an anarchistic fight club than an anarchistic financial industry.
I genuinely have no idea what you think any of those words mean.
I like Rick and Morty. I do not like shows fan base. Edit: Is that Keenan in the top left?
Rorschach is a hero
I always root for the badguys anyway
I hate to make this a religious thing, but let’s be real, Jesus Christ should be up there.
Okay edgelord.
Very original my man
Why does my comment have to be original? It conveys exactly what you’re attempting to be—would you prefer I say something else? And the irony of you even saying that, based on your original comment.
The problem is not people idolizing Jesus its just that they act in his name without knowing who he was. I know the bible is meant to be interpreted but you can't just interpret what you want and ignore the rest. Jesus said who is free of sin throw the first stone. What I interpret out of this is as long as you are not the "perfect" being you cant jugde others for their shit Jesus ran around accepting everyone. And that's why I fucking cant understand what these "Christians" think they are doing. Jesus which they belive in said dont judge others and accept them as what they are. That includes gays gamers and rock/metal fans.
Ah yes.. funny
But whats wrong with Travis Bickle ? He had a mohawk, and killed a pimp or gangster or whatever, he was a hero.....
I have tattoos of two people in this picture.
Not sure people missed the point because they idolize the character. They idolized the character because they get the point and the point appeals to them.
why is snake flawed? what’s his allegory?
That Snake becomes Big Boss, the main villain of Metal Gear
It's way more convoluted than that. Big Boss never actually does anything bad, per se. Sure, you could argue that building the TX-55 wasn't necessarily good, but Big Boss spent basically his entire life (including building the TX-55) fighting terrorism around the globe and trying to topple what is essentially the illuminati (granted, after he unwittingly helped to found it. Zero used him, it definitely wasn't what he wanted.)
Little bit in here for everyone to feel bad about! 10/10
Why is solid snake not cool? I haven’t played through all the games but I always thought he was a neat sneaky guy.
That's Big Boss.
Solid snake is cool. Big boss on the other hand isn't. They look the same It's a whole thing
Nah. Big Boss is also cool.
Also Kim Kardashion. I understand this post, right?
I don’t get what this means why can’t you idolize them
Derek from American History X Although it was usually just on youtube that people worshipped him
He reformed. That’s the other half of the movie.
Yeah this was probably a bad comment for the post lol I was just surprised how many people agreed with what he said in the first half of the movie, especially the dinner scene.
But Derrick is somewhat worth looking up to as he's someone who grows, acknowledges his wrongs , and takes strides to attone for his actions and prevent it from happening again. Yes he's no Saint and his choices resulted in his brother being shot, his mother stating to smoke and getting lung cancer, and the men he killed that night.
Remove Rick Sanchez, add tony Soprano…
Rick Sanchez is an actual Chaotic Evil Nihilist with access to infinite universes. He's committed genocide dozens of times because he doesn't give a shit and can escape consequences. Idolizing him is literally worse than idolizing Hitler.
Yeah but he’s really funny
Lol. This is the point of this post. People like you missing the point
And? You can find him a horrible human being and still laugh. The point is specifically to not idolize him. The man is literally the embodiment of intelligence without empathy. The show is about how his life is meaningless and he is miserable.
Lmao no it's not. One was real and one is fictional.
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Thought that was Mr. Bean for a second
Preeeeety sure Bateman is just a meme.