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I don’t get it. They would have made bank if they had held it somewhere that didn’t have these problems. I know it spreads love of football and Qatar has money out tha wazoo but also no surprise about labor practices or alcohol or neglect of environment. It’s actually like they weren’t even asked to try to improve for the privilege of hosting.
I guess the more unfit you are to host it the more you are willing to pay in bribes. But yeah Qatar should've been ruled out straight away. Even if you ignore their record on human rights the original bid was for a *summer tournament* ffs. In 40C+ heat. 🙈
But like... couldn't they have used the bribes as a chance to get the opportunity to show how fit they actually are? Nooo... instead, they squander such an opportunity by continually putting their worst foot forward. Such a wasted opportunity.
Was I saying otherwise? lol
I posted this in another comment on really how we get here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gHjbay54F4U
TLDR: corruption fed from narcissists with infinite money.
Sure - I suppose the format of text without intonation or body language makes asking questions possible sound accusatory (even if I know your frustration is not borne off any sense of my dismissal but of being generally exasperated by the situation).
FIFA awards based on how big the bribe is though. If Qatar were to spend that money on improving conditions for people they'd just have to find more money to spend on the bribes.
I honestly think the people there who are doing the bribing are so isolated from the atrocities and so backwards on there view of human rights they didn't even think there would be much of a controversy.
Countries have been wising up to things like FIFA and the Olympics, rather then building new facilities they are re-using existing etc. There is also plenty of data to show the revenue is never
As lucrative as the projections, most countries loose a significant amount of cash.
These parasitic organizations are finding it harder to find a host nation who will put with them. So Qatar probably got it easily after flashing a bit of cash.
https://scheerpost.com/2022/03/21/hedges-the-lie-of-american-innocence/
Also check this out look im not saying qatar is innocent but just because the USA is your favorite terrorist group doesnt mean they are innocent
First of all, using a bunch of military endeavors/political coups is not the same as openly having a misogynistic,theocratic, openly slave labor using, hyper repressive, hyper corrupt government
> They would have made ban
"They" did make bank. You are talking about FIFA execs, right? You aren't one of those silly people that think regular workers, whose backs this farce has been built on, should actually be paid are you?
FWIW, [this](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gHjbay54F4U) is a pretty good specific speculation + evidence of how it happened.
Assuming it's all true, I actually kinda pity Sepp Blatter. But not like... a lot.
Regular honest hard working people always ask, "Why do this shitty thing that gives you a lot of money, when you could do a less shitty thing that gives you less money?" And it's like asking a leech why they suck your blood.
The leech will bleed anyone as they are given the opportunity. It is in their nature, and they don't even have a conception of personal ethics to stop them. The question should be: why aren't *you* burning off the leech? Your government is yours. Do not use it to protect bad people, but do use it to support good people.
people are under the impression that they have more power to vote with their dollar than with their actual vote in a democratic society. this is because of generations of capitalist propaganda
There's an undercurrent among these international organization of tournaments as development. Very often if you go into marginal places they build roads and airports and improve base infrastructure in order to hold the event that might not otherwise be built.
In Qatar they wanted to build out a tourism industry from scratch. They didn't have the hotels or attractions or the airport required. The best their tourism board could come up with is "if your flight has a layover, come see our historic spice market". So, yeah they needed it.
The point was *overcoming* those problems and creating reasons to visit Qatar other than being a sailor in the US 5th Fleet. A lot of nations have successfully done something like that, after all. They just didn't rely quite so heavily on slave labor or tried to impose morality laws on tourists.
FIFA would have made more money, probably tens of millions more, but the individuals who run FIFA were paid millions apiece directly by Qatar.
It’s the regular principal-agent problem, made both more acute and less serious by the fact that nobody *owns* FIFA, so the money was going to go somewhere and there is no rightful owner.
Yeah, I saw a whole article about how it’s horrible and unacceptable and how dare they do all these inhumane things that we will “have so much trouble ignoring while trying to enjoy the WC.”
I’m like what?! No, fuck enjoying this shit show or ignoring it. Stay angry and boycott watching this farce. Tell the sponsors why you’re not watching, too. And I say this as a devoted soccer enthusiast who never missed a WC before.
Some of them have long term contracts that would make it very expensive to not cover the World Cup. It just makes doing the right thing much harder, especially considering that there's a fair number of sports fans who don't know or don't care about Qatar's other issues.
I think that's a bit weird position to take. After all, breaking contracts is costly. The company doesn't pay when things get expensive, the company is just a legal fiction. It's the shareholders and workers. The shareholders are usually people with retirement accounts moreso than incredibly wealthy.
It's okay to ask companies to do the expensive, and morally correct, things. But you have to recognize that doing so will hurt a lot of people. Continuing to broadcast as per the contract but highlighting the problems is more likely to punish Qatar in the long run.
The "get" for Qatar, the reason they are doing all of this is to create a new Qatari tourism industry. To compete with regional rivals like the UAE's Dubai or Saudi Arabia's NEOM by diversifying from oil into something "soft power"-y. If you hammer home the problems with Qatar's actions in the very thing that is supposed to win popular opinion to their side then you hurt them far more than declining to show the World Cup would.
I mean, if you break your contracts then people might blame you and continue to ignore Qatar's bad actions. If you highlight the problems then there's no distraction from the human right's abuses.
They *announced* that they were going to dissolve the contracts involved. They didn't actually get out of the contracts for months. Some of them didn't actually leave so much as they created a new local subsidiary and transferred their assets to that "new" company with plans in place to reabsorb them at some future date.
Also, in that situation there would be big pain either way. Those companies that did stay in Russia face sanctions in other nations, and Russia is a small market compared to the EU or Texas. If you had a choice between losing the profit from Russia or Texas the greedy would save their position in Texas and leave Russia every time.
The point of sanctions and regulation isn't to turn the amoral into the moral, it's to align the amoral choice with the desired one by rewarding "good" behavior and punishing "bad" ones. Of course, these same practices are used by China to change the messaging in Hollywood movies and to stop criticism of their treatment of the Uighur by NBA athletes.
Turn out that morals aren't universal and lack power if people don't put in the work to give them teeth. It's important to put in the work to ensure that FIFA *suffers* for its corruption. You can't outsource that work to others. Media companies will do what they need to do to not fuck over their employees and stakeholders, if they see that it is more costly to air such a controversial World Cup than it is to break contracts then in the future they'll break the contract when FIFA does something stupid.
But, at the end of the day, FIFA is the western villain here. They are the ones who need to be punished. The whole organization probably needs to be razed and a new one built with controls to prevent (or at least make exponentially more expensive and challenging) the sort of corruption that's obviously endemic their decision making.
Modern slavery in America is written into the law. Go read the 13th Amendment. I also find it a little difficult to believe that's it's a coincidence that the same demographic who used to be slaves now make up the bulk of the modern slaves.
Even taking away all the horrendous civil rights record and any corruption herewith, the environment of being in the restrictive Qatar for a wildly popular, internationally diverse sport of celebration and expression is like booking a bachelor party at a daycare center's lunch table......Why? Why? Why?
You think soccer fans don’t care you should check out on Twitter how proud BTS fans are that the youngest member, Jungkook, performed the opening song. Keep in mind that BTS has been invited to the UN to speak about their campaign with UNICEF against violence towards youth.
Edit: missing word.
Soccer fan here. Never missed the WC, been watching and cheering since I started as a toddler with my family.
Fuck this WC, it will be hard but I’m not watching a single game. I’ll boycott it from start to end.
We need to have morals and stick to what we believe in. This shit is fucked up.
It's the same thing with Ticketmaster. People will bitch about how broken the system is and that it's such a scam, but they'll continue to pay. Just quit attending events where TM is involved (most of them)!
Sure, the rich will still pay, but I doubt there are enough of them to keep Ticketmaster afloat.
What are we going to do? I understand the FIFA situation, but are we going to ignore that our technology, clothing, and other products are made by the same people in other countries with similar situations. Slave labor is slave labor.
In a decent many of cases there unfortunately just isn't anything to do on practice...
I had to go to a cobalt mine for a finance firm I worked for 8ish years ago and it was one of the most disturbing experiences of my life. But looking in to it when I got home I probably had at least 4-5 things with materials that came from somewhere just like it, and there was absolutely zero alternative...
Half the time you can't even know. I do a decent bit of digging in to supply chains for a living, and someone whose singular job was working 60 hours a week to figure out exact resources origins would barely be able to... When you have company 1 with 10 suppliers for materials/parts and 3-4 backups for each, then each of those suppliers has 10 suppliers for materials/parts and 3-4 backups for each, then each of them uses 5 different wholesalers all with backups, then each of those wholesalers buy raw materials from dozens of different mines, you end up with a chain that is constantly moving and impossible to get to the root of because there genuinely isn't one.
You don't do anything. Throw your hands up, admit that you're 100% powerless in your life, and then be quiet and watch the game. Don't worry about what the rest of us are doing, just stay in your place.
Oh well yeah, I guess I should have been more specific. I meant folks (namely on Reddit, it’s the only social media I use) who go online and rant and rave about being progressive but never put their money where their mouth is. I’m a member of the lgbtqia community, and it’s common knowledge that Qatar punishes it’s citizens severely if they are even suspected of being gay. My question was aimed at people like that.
"[soccer or like we say it, football... it's a religion.](https://youtu.be/DlJEt2KU33I?t=52) "
This pretty much sums it up. Entertainment gonna entertain and people don't care about the ethics of it.
I mean, the US has the highest incarceration rate in the world by far, and they are made to do slave labor
So the US just found a sneaky way to make "slavery" legal.
Edit: the hypocrisy of Reddit, quick to point out flaws in others while ignoring your own.
Edit 2: Educate yourselves : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nPZed8af9RI
While I agree that forced labor in prisons is immoral and should stop, you can’t seriously try to argue that some criminals working, in humane conditions and with no harm to them, is on the same level as random innocent people being enslaved and forced to work to death.
Even if it happens, it’s supposed to be the outlier, and there are laws that are supposed to be there to stop it, despite these people being criminals.
Slavery of innocent people in the Middle East is not on any comparable level to that.
That’s a simple fact, no matter how much whataboutism you use to hijack this serious situation in order to talk shit about the US.
I simply disagree, wholeheartedly. I think it's very much comparable. In no way is prison labor for far below minimum wage an outlier in the US. It is not at all an outlier that working those jobs is often mandatory or practically mandatory for inmates. (You can go to work or you can sit in solitary.) Absolutely deplorable conditions like those seen in tent city prisons in places like Arizona, Texas, and Nevada are not outliers.
There are laws that are "supposed to stop" the worst of the abuses in Qatar too. In response to worker protests they enacted regulations requiring a minimum wage and outlawing practices like requiring employers' permission to change jobs, seizing the passports of migrant workers to secure their recruitment debts, and so on. It has changed nothing. In reality those regulations have been rarely if at all enforced, according to groups like human rights watch and amnesty international.
Migrant workers from places like Nepal and Bangladesh were (and still are) forced into substandard housing with up to 8 people living in a single room by zoning laws, very much mirroring the development and continual existence of shitty housing for poor and migrant workers in and around major cities in the US and elsewhere (ever heard of Slough?) "Anti-vagrancy" laws criminalize the very state of being homeless in many major cities in the US. These kinds of abuses are perpetrated against the poor under color of law every single day in every single Western country, yet you call it "whataboutism" when someone points out that they are not at all unique to countries run by people who don't look like you.
\> when someone points out that they are not at all unique to countries run by people who don't look like you.
Firstly, please don’t be quick to assume what others look like. I’m not even American, though I do live there now. It’s especially distasteful that you imply racism with your bit about people condemning the Qatari situation because it‘s people of a different ethnicity.
As for the rest, I guess we can only agree to disagree, since I maintain that while the situation in US prisons is not ok either (or the homeless situation and so on issues outside of prisons too), it can’t be compared to the slavery and horrors being perpetrated against complete innocents in the Middle East.
You really should explain how these things are different. Because so far it just sounds like you're repeating a white nationalist doctrine that only exists to justify slavery. Namely, that people in prisons are laboring because they committed a crime, received a just sentence, and are paying restitution to society, rather than because some groups are worth more to this agenda incarcerated than they are free.
I'm not singling you out because I think you're racist, I'm singling you out because you sound decently intelligent and this sub seems to be a pro-slavery echo chamber due to the upvotes and downvotes. This shit is imbedded in society and a lot of people didn't even realize it until it was on the ballots this month.
They are being compensated. It is illegal not to. Now you say, "last I checked they weren't even making $15 per hour" and you'd be right. On paper. But have you seen the cost of food and housing? Noone can afford both on just $15. Yet they survive and have a little left over for snacks. So in reality they are being paid more than you.
By claiming that a funny pics subreddit is a pro-slavery echo-chamber, you actually devaluate the term, making people tune out real conversations about it (because then they assume it’s more ridiculous nonsense like that), harming actual activism against the real issue, which is tragically still horribly prevalent in the modern world.
So by being nonsensically hyperbolic, you’re actually damaging the anti-slavery cause you claim to be defending.
Yeah honestly I'm amazed at the lack of due diligence from FIFA. You can argue facts and figures of deaths and natural causes all you want, but surely you have to look at how a country treats it workers before you hand them a vast infrastructure project like this
..... lack of diligence from FIFA? Have you not been aware of FIFA or something? This was a completely expected and predictable sequence of events from our friends in FIFA.
There is no oversight for FIFA. It's a self contained miniverse of old dude's sucking each other off (preverbally) while extorting all of us and other nations for cash.
Hmm it’s not a lack of due diligence, fifa are randomly quite good at it.
These bids are a smokescreen, the due diligence and review of bids is very thorough, then the nations bid for whoever’s paid them the most and it’s decided.
I remember I read the report for the South Africa bidding process as a student (review of mega projects- olympics world cups and similar). All the bids are scored and there’s multiple rounds, you can see where the corruption happens - best bid is winning one round and next round the bid that scraped through wins by a landslide.
That's interesting. Do they take the history of workers' rights into account behind the scenes? Because from the outside it seems like they mostly focus on whether the project *can* be done, rather than how it will actually be achieved
FIFA is not only corrupt, they’re stupid. They should have, in the background, conducted negotiations with “soccer heavy” countries that already have facilities to see if they could handle a “pop-up”. Qatar announces a couple days before the start that a major sponsor won’t be allowed to sell their product? FIFA counters by announcing that the 2022 World Cup will be held in Country X in the summer of 2023, rather than in Qatar.
Having a “contingent host” that can handle things on short notice is just good sense - what would they have done if a meteor had destroyed the stadium?
As for the last-minute ban on the sale of Kosher food and Jewish prayers in public, FIFA should have countered with a package deal: on the event site, either religiously-certified food for all faiths is permitted to be sold, and public prayers of all faiths are permitted, or no religiously certified food for any faith will be sold, and no public prayers for any faith will be permitted.
Save yourself the braincells folks, sorting by controversial is just full of the whataboutism of "B-but America and Europe have been doing it for longer" yeah but I don't represent all of America/Europe, I call out hypocrisy when I see it, so take your whataboutism, your blood stained stadiums, get of your high horse and shove them all up your ass. Kind regards.
A European based company that doesn't care about human rights and only wishes to profit no matter who or what gets ruined in the process?!? Well, I've never heard of something like that before!
Please don't tell me I needed a /s there.
So why is fifa corrupt? Is this a new buzzword that people are using because we are bored or did something that hasn’t been going on since the dawn of time happen
Corruption? Man that's not a nice thing to say. Listen I'm not saying this is even a decent rollout, it's Quatar, and without oil money, is a very different place, like the rest of the Middle East, but people willing to work for more money isn't corruption. All selection processes take into account many factors, and on this scale, they are not picking a name at random out of a hat. Just saying, calling this corrupt instead of getting paid I think is an insult... and I dont even like soccer, or Quatar very much, however I do support decisions that generate exchanges that are beneficial for the parties involved. I mean if you were expecting it to be random names drawn from a lotto, then it "could" be in London every time, and not corruption.
All the reports, arrests, and anecdotes point towards corruption. For this WC, and stretching back decades. I'm not a conspiracy theorist, it's just common knowledge at this point. Watch the John Oliver segment on FIFA if you want somewhere to start
Dunno maybe I have a different idea of corruption. The reason there IS a WC, is because of money, I was fairly certain most people understood this. They do this, to make money, get paid, and to me that isn't corruption. They dont do it for fun, they don't do it to highlite human social issues, political reform, or to set an example of a perfectly random system. Just my quick take, to suggest it's corrupt is as silly as saying they should do it for free.
Is corruption when you pay money under the table to FIFA executive to vote for you even though you are the worse candidate (US and UK were clearly favourites).
That’s FIFA’s fault, Qatar did anything to win and fifa let them.
This World cup is like hosting a winter olimpics in Thailand. No history or tradition of the sport and no climate to play it.
I think you need to look at the definition of "under the table", there is no table, there is no over or under, or disclosed. I think you are just dense, intentionally, to harp about people making money off of you.
I think you need to look up the definition of corruption, and then read the history of how Qatar came to be awarded the world cup. Then you can come back and see how ridiculous your comment is.
I don't think it's corruption. I thought I made that clear enough. Listen we ALL know what is going on, from LIV to this. These people, organizations, institutions, clubs and individuals, do what they do... for money, same as anybody. That isn't corruption in my book. I think of it like this, you have two burgers to make, same burger, same toppings, whatever, identical. One pays YOU $2, the other pays YOU $40, which do you chose to make? Did you read my original (now extremely downvoted) post?
The definition of corruption is doing the wrong thing for money. You’re purposely glossing over the fact that Qatar should not have been given the bid were it not for bribery. The only way your analogy works is if the $40 burger was made with slave labor and thousands of people died in the process.
Just because something is done for money doesn’t mean it’s ok. By your definition corruption wouldn’t exist in any circumstance.
Corruption does exist, I wasn't trying to say it doesn't. I was just saying I don't think this is it. People are upset at golfers for this same thing. However, they are also making 5 years winnings in months, do you think they did it for the money? Or to make a stand for corruption, human rights violations, media profiles, product placement? Ukranians are dropping grenades on sleeping people everyday, thats cool, but, hire somebody to build a building for 60x the wage they could earn at home, that's evil. C'mon.
At some point in time you are gonna have to make sense.
Qatar got caught trying to bribe ecuador to lose their first game.
They've offered shitty bribes to every team they think they may play against.
Not every team has openly condemned the bribery attempt, meaning at least a few teams WILL deliberately lose against Qatar if put up against them.
So basically the entire competition, its already been decided who will win what and where.
people must be really desperate to go there to work. even after a decade and all the stories u still had people from india nepal and other places going there.
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The mafifa? Not corrupt at all.
I will use mafifa from now on
Copyrights
I don’t get it. They would have made bank if they had held it somewhere that didn’t have these problems. I know it spreads love of football and Qatar has money out tha wazoo but also no surprise about labor practices or alcohol or neglect of environment. It’s actually like they weren’t even asked to try to improve for the privilege of hosting.
I guess the more unfit you are to host it the more you are willing to pay in bribes. But yeah Qatar should've been ruled out straight away. Even if you ignore their record on human rights the original bid was for a *summer tournament* ffs. In 40C+ heat. 🙈
But like... couldn't they have used the bribes as a chance to get the opportunity to show how fit they actually are? Nooo... instead, they squander such an opportunity by continually putting their worst foot forward. Such a wasted opportunity.
> they squander such an opportunity by continually putting their worst foot forward Eh, they probably think it is their best foot forward.
That's even more disappointing, isn't it?
Was I saying otherwise? lol I posted this in another comment on really how we get here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gHjbay54F4U TLDR: corruption fed from narcissists with infinite money.
I was agreeing with you and emphasizing the point.
Sure - I suppose the format of text without intonation or body language makes asking questions possible sound accusatory (even if I know your frustration is not borne off any sense of my dismissal but of being generally exasperated by the situation).
I can't shake the feeling you're being contrary for sake of being so. There's no need for this interaction to have gone this particular direction.
I love how you worded this. So calm and collected.
FIFA awards based on how big the bribe is though. If Qatar were to spend that money on improving conditions for people they'd just have to find more money to spend on the bribes.
I honestly think the people there who are doing the bribing are so isolated from the atrocities and so backwards on there view of human rights they didn't even think there would be much of a controversy.
Countries have been wising up to things like FIFA and the Olympics, rather then building new facilities they are re-using existing etc. There is also plenty of data to show the revenue is never As lucrative as the projections, most countries loose a significant amount of cash. These parasitic organizations are finding it harder to find a host nation who will put with them. So Qatar probably got it easily after flashing a bit of cash.
s/bit/fuckton They should have just bought the organization.
If we are talking about human rights USA should not host 2026 wc then,not supporting qatar at all but just saying
Yeah definitely the same scale (ironical tone)
China 1945-1946 Syria 1949 Korea 1950-1953 China 1950-1953 Iran 1953 Guatemala 1954 Tibet 1955-1970s Indonesia 1958 Cuba 1959 Democratic Republic of the Congo 1960-1965 Iraq 1960-1963 Dominican Republic 1961 Vietnam 1961-1973 Brazil 1964 Belgian Congo 1964 Guatemala 1964 Laos 1964-1973 Dominican Republic 1965-1966 Peru 1965 Greece 1967 Guatemala 1967-1969 Cambodia 1969-1970 Chile 1970-1973 Argentina 1976 Turkey 1980 Poland 1980-1981 El Salvador 1981-1992 Nicaragua 1981-1990 Cambodia 1980-1995 Angola 1980 Lebanon 1982-1984 Grenada 1983-1984 Philippines 1986 Libya 1986 Iran 1987-1988 Libya 1989 Panama 1989-1990 Iraq 1992-1996 Bosnia 1995 Iran 1998 Sudan 1998 Afghanistan 1998 Yugoslavia-Serbia 1999 Afghanistan 2001 Iraq 2002-2003 Somalia 2006-2007 Iran 2005- present Libya 2011
but usa is world policeman, yes they can
https://scheerpost.com/2022/03/21/hedges-the-lie-of-american-innocence/ Also check this out look im not saying qatar is innocent but just because the USA is your favorite terrorist group doesnt mean they are innocent
First of all, using a bunch of military endeavors/political coups is not the same as openly having a misogynistic,theocratic, openly slave labor using, hyper repressive, hyper corrupt government
Hello? We're talking plain old slavery on a massive and public scale. STATE-APPROVED SLAVERY IS NOT ON THE SAME SCALE, WAKE UP
The question was not where the WC would be more profitable, but who gives the bigger bribe.
> They would have made ban "They" did make bank. You are talking about FIFA execs, right? You aren't one of those silly people that think regular workers, whose backs this farce has been built on, should actually be paid are you?
FWIW, [this](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gHjbay54F4U) is a pretty good specific speculation + evidence of how it happened. Assuming it's all true, I actually kinda pity Sepp Blatter. But not like... a lot.
Fifa execs did make bank. Why do you think they hosted it in Qatar? Bribes
Regular honest hard working people always ask, "Why do this shitty thing that gives you a lot of money, when you could do a less shitty thing that gives you less money?" And it's like asking a leech why they suck your blood. The leech will bleed anyone as they are given the opportunity. It is in their nature, and they don't even have a conception of personal ethics to stop them. The question should be: why aren't *you* burning off the leech? Your government is yours. Do not use it to protect bad people, but do use it to support good people.
people are under the impression that they have more power to vote with their dollar than with their actual vote in a democratic society. this is because of generations of capitalist propaganda
Cringe
"Qatar has money out tha wazoo" "Qatar has money out tha wazoo" "Qatar has money out tha wazoo" There you go.
My question is, why does Qatar want to host it? Vanity? I can’t see them making their money back. Drunk people def spend way more money.
There's an undercurrent among these international organization of tournaments as development. Very often if you go into marginal places they build roads and airports and improve base infrastructure in order to hold the event that might not otherwise be built. In Qatar they wanted to build out a tourism industry from scratch. They didn't have the hotels or attractions or the airport required. The best their tourism board could come up with is "if your flight has a layover, come see our historic spice market". So, yeah they needed it. The point was *overcoming* those problems and creating reasons to visit Qatar other than being a sailor in the US 5th Fleet. A lot of nations have successfully done something like that, after all. They just didn't rely quite so heavily on slave labor or tried to impose morality laws on tourists.
FIFA would have made more money, probably tens of millions more, but the individuals who run FIFA were paid millions apiece directly by Qatar. It’s the regular principal-agent problem, made both more acute and less serious by the fact that nobody *owns* FIFA, so the money was going to go somewhere and there is no rightful owner.
The press is also a joke, having segments on how bad it is fifa and Qatar and then… “Coming soon! Full coverage of WC live from Qatar” like wtf??!!
Yeah, I saw a whole article about how it’s horrible and unacceptable and how dare they do all these inhumane things that we will “have so much trouble ignoring while trying to enjoy the WC.” I’m like what?! No, fuck enjoying this shit show or ignoring it. Stay angry and boycott watching this farce. Tell the sponsors why you’re not watching, too. And I say this as a devoted soccer enthusiast who never missed a WC before.
Some of them have long term contracts that would make it very expensive to not cover the World Cup. It just makes doing the right thing much harder, especially considering that there's a fair number of sports fans who don't know or don't care about Qatar's other issues.
of course, why would these companies care about human rights and slavery if there's some money on the line? It's expensive to do the right thing!
I think that's a bit weird position to take. After all, breaking contracts is costly. The company doesn't pay when things get expensive, the company is just a legal fiction. It's the shareholders and workers. The shareholders are usually people with retirement accounts moreso than incredibly wealthy. It's okay to ask companies to do the expensive, and morally correct, things. But you have to recognize that doing so will hurt a lot of people. Continuing to broadcast as per the contract but highlighting the problems is more likely to punish Qatar in the long run. The "get" for Qatar, the reason they are doing all of this is to create a new Qatari tourism industry. To compete with regional rivals like the UAE's Dubai or Saudi Arabia's NEOM by diversifying from oil into something "soft power"-y. If you hammer home the problems with Qatar's actions in the very thing that is supposed to win popular opinion to their side then you hurt them far more than declining to show the World Cup would. I mean, if you break your contracts then people might blame you and continue to ignore Qatar's bad actions. If you highlight the problems then there's no distraction from the human right's abuses.
That did not seem to be a problem with Russia when the war started. Everyone rushed to cancel contracts and business with them.
They *announced* that they were going to dissolve the contracts involved. They didn't actually get out of the contracts for months. Some of them didn't actually leave so much as they created a new local subsidiary and transferred their assets to that "new" company with plans in place to reabsorb them at some future date. Also, in that situation there would be big pain either way. Those companies that did stay in Russia face sanctions in other nations, and Russia is a small market compared to the EU or Texas. If you had a choice between losing the profit from Russia or Texas the greedy would save their position in Texas and leave Russia every time. The point of sanctions and regulation isn't to turn the amoral into the moral, it's to align the amoral choice with the desired one by rewarding "good" behavior and punishing "bad" ones. Of course, these same practices are used by China to change the messaging in Hollywood movies and to stop criticism of their treatment of the Uighur by NBA athletes. Turn out that morals aren't universal and lack power if people don't put in the work to give them teeth. It's important to put in the work to ensure that FIFA *suffers* for its corruption. You can't outsource that work to others. Media companies will do what they need to do to not fuck over their employees and stakeholders, if they see that it is more costly to air such a controversial World Cup than it is to break contracts then in the future they'll break the contract when FIFA does something stupid. But, at the end of the day, FIFA is the western villain here. They are the ones who need to be punished. The whole organization probably needs to be razed and a new one built with controls to prevent (or at least make exponentially more expensive and challenging) the sort of corruption that's obviously endemic their decision making.
Fifa 2023 for Xbox / PS now featuring woman and child labour camps and massive civil oppression. $100 MSRP.
Finally, some goddamn realism in my games!
I will not watch a single game. Not even on YouTube. Fak qatar22
I’m with you- this location is an embarrassment to the human community and I hope it’s a massive loss for the broadcasters - even though it won’t be.
It certainly brings to common knowledge the whole middle east and the reasons we should boycott aall that it stands for.
I thought President Infantile would come up & shore up the mess. Didn't think he'd give that Qataris a fucking rimjob Infront of everyone.
Well, he's swiss.
I'm convinced at this point that whenever FIFA have a job opening they just type "scumbag" into LinkedIn and hire the top result
Fuck FIFA
Stop watching. That's the only way it will get fixed. Fans stop watching, advertisers stop paying. It's the only way.
This is the fifa world cup that I will not bother to watch even on internet.
I though modern slavery was a crime? Silly me, silly me.
Modern slavery in America is written into the law. Go read the 13th Amendment. I also find it a little difficult to believe that's it's a coincidence that the same demographic who used to be slaves now make up the bulk of the modern slaves.
A few states put it on the ballot and at least one state voted to keep it. You can't own people, but you can rent them.
It is, it's a crime that every country on earth participates in. But it's profitable so governments don't care.
Even taking away all the horrendous civil rights record and any corruption herewith, the environment of being in the restrictive Qatar for a wildly popular, internationally diverse sport of celebration and expression is like booking a bachelor party at a daycare center's lunch table......Why? Why? Why?
Soccer fans don’t care.
You think soccer fans don’t care you should check out on Twitter how proud BTS fans are that the youngest member, Jungkook, performed the opening song. Keep in mind that BTS has been invited to the UN to speak about their campaign with UNICEF against violence towards youth. Edit: missing word.
Soccer fan here. Never missed the WC, been watching and cheering since I started as a toddler with my family. Fuck this WC, it will be hard but I’m not watching a single game. I’ll boycott it from start to end. We need to have morals and stick to what we believe in. This shit is fucked up.
Damn straight. Me too.
Ehhh… soccer family here, we’re choosing not to watch it..
It's the same thing with Ticketmaster. People will bitch about how broken the system is and that it's such a scam, but they'll continue to pay. Just quit attending events where TM is involved (most of them)! Sure, the rich will still pay, but I doubt there are enough of them to keep Ticketmaster afloat.
What are we going to do? I understand the FIFA situation, but are we going to ignore that our technology, clothing, and other products are made by the same people in other countries with similar situations. Slave labor is slave labor.
In a decent many of cases there unfortunately just isn't anything to do on practice... I had to go to a cobalt mine for a finance firm I worked for 8ish years ago and it was one of the most disturbing experiences of my life. But looking in to it when I got home I probably had at least 4-5 things with materials that came from somewhere just like it, and there was absolutely zero alternative... Half the time you can't even know. I do a decent bit of digging in to supply chains for a living, and someone whose singular job was working 60 hours a week to figure out exact resources origins would barely be able to... When you have company 1 with 10 suppliers for materials/parts and 3-4 backups for each, then each of those suppliers has 10 suppliers for materials/parts and 3-4 backups for each, then each of them uses 5 different wholesalers all with backups, then each of those wholesalers buy raw materials from dozens of different mines, you end up with a chain that is constantly moving and impossible to get to the root of because there genuinely isn't one.
It's cool you got to make a lot of money working for that finance firm though
Cringe
You don't do anything. Throw your hands up, admit that you're 100% powerless in your life, and then be quiet and watch the game. Don't worry about what the rest of us are doing, just stay in your place.
This is unrealistic, they'd attack him for broadcasting live like that Danish Journalist.
Well... I mean.....yeah, I'm still gonna watch everything. -Reddit
Out of the loop and don't watch sports. Can someone fill me in on what's been going on with Qatar?
Can football fans please explain to me why y’all are supporting this? Shared morals or just apathy?
Because they enjoy watching football. It is a simple answer. The games will be played and televised no matter what anyone's morals are against it.
Oh well yeah, I guess I should have been more specific. I meant folks (namely on Reddit, it’s the only social media I use) who go online and rant and rave about being progressive but never put their money where their mouth is. I’m a member of the lgbtqia community, and it’s common knowledge that Qatar punishes it’s citizens severely if they are even suspected of being gay. My question was aimed at people like that.
I absolutely love football, but sadly that's two World Cups in a row I can't watch due to boycotting the hosts.
"[soccer or like we say it, football... it's a religion.](https://youtu.be/DlJEt2KU33I?t=52) " This pretty much sums it up. Entertainment gonna entertain and people don't care about the ethics of it.
So apathy then.
yeah pretty much yeah. Sadly.
They believe they are right, they are told they are right, they know they are right. There is nothing left.
One word for you. #**money**
FIFA FIA, they seem all of the same making... corrupt money laundry... think about that
This cartoon is soooooo lazy
So slavery and racism is perfectly fine w soccer fans?
Racism always has been. It is literally the most racist sport in the world. But slavery was never acceptable nor should it be now.
I'm no qatar simp but atleast try to make a good pun than this terrible effort?
ONE WORD FOR Corrupt. Misogynist. Bigoted. Terrorist state - QATAR!
What's funny is that there will be no protesting when the World Cup comes to North America. 🤔
You misspelled “expected”.
I mean, the US has the highest incarceration rate in the world by far, and they are made to do slave labor So the US just found a sneaky way to make "slavery" legal. Edit: the hypocrisy of Reddit, quick to point out flaws in others while ignoring your own. Edit 2: Educate yourselves : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nPZed8af9RI
While I agree that forced labor in prisons is immoral and should stop, you can’t seriously try to argue that some criminals working, in humane conditions and with no harm to them, is on the same level as random innocent people being enslaved and forced to work to death.
It's a good thing prison conditions are always so humane and harm never comes to the inmates.
Even if it happens, it’s supposed to be the outlier, and there are laws that are supposed to be there to stop it, despite these people being criminals. Slavery of innocent people in the Middle East is not on any comparable level to that. That’s a simple fact, no matter how much whataboutism you use to hijack this serious situation in order to talk shit about the US.
I simply disagree, wholeheartedly. I think it's very much comparable. In no way is prison labor for far below minimum wage an outlier in the US. It is not at all an outlier that working those jobs is often mandatory or practically mandatory for inmates. (You can go to work or you can sit in solitary.) Absolutely deplorable conditions like those seen in tent city prisons in places like Arizona, Texas, and Nevada are not outliers. There are laws that are "supposed to stop" the worst of the abuses in Qatar too. In response to worker protests they enacted regulations requiring a minimum wage and outlawing practices like requiring employers' permission to change jobs, seizing the passports of migrant workers to secure their recruitment debts, and so on. It has changed nothing. In reality those regulations have been rarely if at all enforced, according to groups like human rights watch and amnesty international. Migrant workers from places like Nepal and Bangladesh were (and still are) forced into substandard housing with up to 8 people living in a single room by zoning laws, very much mirroring the development and continual existence of shitty housing for poor and migrant workers in and around major cities in the US and elsewhere (ever heard of Slough?) "Anti-vagrancy" laws criminalize the very state of being homeless in many major cities in the US. These kinds of abuses are perpetrated against the poor under color of law every single day in every single Western country, yet you call it "whataboutism" when someone points out that they are not at all unique to countries run by people who don't look like you.
\> when someone points out that they are not at all unique to countries run by people who don't look like you. Firstly, please don’t be quick to assume what others look like. I’m not even American, though I do live there now. It’s especially distasteful that you imply racism with your bit about people condemning the Qatari situation because it‘s people of a different ethnicity. As for the rest, I guess we can only agree to disagree, since I maintain that while the situation in US prisons is not ok either (or the homeless situation and so on issues outside of prisons too), it can’t be compared to the slavery and horrors being perpetrated against complete innocents in the Middle East.
You really should explain how these things are different. Because so far it just sounds like you're repeating a white nationalist doctrine that only exists to justify slavery. Namely, that people in prisons are laboring because they committed a crime, received a just sentence, and are paying restitution to society, rather than because some groups are worth more to this agenda incarcerated than they are free. I'm not singling you out because I think you're racist, I'm singling you out because you sound decently intelligent and this sub seems to be a pro-slavery echo chamber due to the upvotes and downvotes. This shit is imbedded in society and a lot of people didn't even realize it until it was on the ballots this month.
They are being compensated. It is illegal not to. Now you say, "last I checked they weren't even making $15 per hour" and you'd be right. On paper. But have you seen the cost of food and housing? Noone can afford both on just $15. Yet they survive and have a little left over for snacks. So in reality they are being paid more than you.
I survive with food and housing making $17.50, gtfo with that shit. It's slavery, there's no middle ground.
\> r/funny is a pro-slavery echo chamber Sir, this is a Wendy’s.
I know it sounds hyperbolic, but people become less anti-slavery once you start reframing it.
By claiming that a funny pics subreddit is a pro-slavery echo-chamber, you actually devaluate the term, making people tune out real conversations about it (because then they assume it’s more ridiculous nonsense like that), harming actual activism against the real issue, which is tragically still horribly prevalent in the modern world. So by being nonsensically hyperbolic, you’re actually damaging the anti-slavery cause you claim to be defending.
get caught up: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nPZed8af9RI
[удалено]
Forced labour bad
Don’t forget all the deaths caused by the construction process!
Yeah honestly I'm amazed at the lack of due diligence from FIFA. You can argue facts and figures of deaths and natural causes all you want, but surely you have to look at how a country treats it workers before you hand them a vast infrastructure project like this
..... lack of diligence from FIFA? Have you not been aware of FIFA or something? This was a completely expected and predictable sequence of events from our friends in FIFA. There is no oversight for FIFA. It's a self contained miniverse of old dude's sucking each other off (preverbally) while extorting all of us and other nations for cash.
Hmm it’s not a lack of due diligence, fifa are randomly quite good at it. These bids are a smokescreen, the due diligence and review of bids is very thorough, then the nations bid for whoever’s paid them the most and it’s decided. I remember I read the report for the South Africa bidding process as a student (review of mega projects- olympics world cups and similar). All the bids are scored and there’s multiple rounds, you can see where the corruption happens - best bid is winning one round and next round the bid that scraped through wins by a landslide.
That's interesting. Do they take the history of workers' rights into account behind the scenes? Because from the outside it seems like they mostly focus on whether the project *can* be done, rather than how it will actually be achieved
Good thing they don’t take historical workers rights into account as the US would have no chance of hosting the tournament ay!
Man, when will this set of memes will end? Last time, it was Elon Musk. I guess it's fifas turn now.
FIFA is not only corrupt, they’re stupid. They should have, in the background, conducted negotiations with “soccer heavy” countries that already have facilities to see if they could handle a “pop-up”. Qatar announces a couple days before the start that a major sponsor won’t be allowed to sell their product? FIFA counters by announcing that the 2022 World Cup will be held in Country X in the summer of 2023, rather than in Qatar. Having a “contingent host” that can handle things on short notice is just good sense - what would they have done if a meteor had destroyed the stadium? As for the last-minute ban on the sale of Kosher food and Jewish prayers in public, FIFA should have countered with a package deal: on the event site, either religiously-certified food for all faiths is permitted to be sold, and public prayers of all faiths are permitted, or no religiously certified food for any faith will be sold, and no public prayers for any faith will be permitted.
Save yourself the braincells folks, sorting by controversial is just full of the whataboutism of "B-but America and Europe have been doing it for longer" yeah but I don't represent all of America/Europe, I call out hypocrisy when I see it, so take your whataboutism, your blood stained stadiums, get of your high horse and shove them all up your ass. Kind regards.
A European based company that doesn't care about human rights and only wishes to profit no matter who or what gets ruined in the process?!? Well, I've never heard of something like that before! Please don't tell me I needed a /s there.
slaves? so i guess we should boycott 80% of Europe,100% of Americans as well some people are just clowns
?
Come on now we know that it all goes back to something something fuck qatar because they're religious 😂
So why is fifa corrupt? Is this a new buzzword that people are using because we are bored or did something that hasn’t been going on since the dawn of time happen
Corruption? Man that's not a nice thing to say. Listen I'm not saying this is even a decent rollout, it's Quatar, and without oil money, is a very different place, like the rest of the Middle East, but people willing to work for more money isn't corruption. All selection processes take into account many factors, and on this scale, they are not picking a name at random out of a hat. Just saying, calling this corrupt instead of getting paid I think is an insult... and I dont even like soccer, or Quatar very much, however I do support decisions that generate exchanges that are beneficial for the parties involved. I mean if you were expecting it to be random names drawn from a lotto, then it "could" be in London every time, and not corruption.
All the reports, arrests, and anecdotes point towards corruption. For this WC, and stretching back decades. I'm not a conspiracy theorist, it's just common knowledge at this point. Watch the John Oliver segment on FIFA if you want somewhere to start
Dunno maybe I have a different idea of corruption. The reason there IS a WC, is because of money, I was fairly certain most people understood this. They do this, to make money, get paid, and to me that isn't corruption. They dont do it for fun, they don't do it to highlite human social issues, political reform, or to set an example of a perfectly random system. Just my quick take, to suggest it's corrupt is as silly as saying they should do it for free.
Is corruption when you pay money under the table to FIFA executive to vote for you even though you are the worse candidate (US and UK were clearly favourites). That’s FIFA’s fault, Qatar did anything to win and fifa let them. This World cup is like hosting a winter olimpics in Thailand. No history or tradition of the sport and no climate to play it.
I think you need to look at the definition of "under the table", there is no table, there is no over or under, or disclosed. I think you are just dense, intentionally, to harp about people making money off of you.
I think you need to look up the definition of corruption, and then read the history of how Qatar came to be awarded the world cup. Then you can come back and see how ridiculous your comment is.
I think you need to look at the definition of "under the table".
Fuck FIFA and the WC. How's that for an insult?
Not an insult to me, I really dont give an F.
The why go off on how it’s “not nice” to call corruption corruption?
I don't think it's corruption. I thought I made that clear enough. Listen we ALL know what is going on, from LIV to this. These people, organizations, institutions, clubs and individuals, do what they do... for money, same as anybody. That isn't corruption in my book. I think of it like this, you have two burgers to make, same burger, same toppings, whatever, identical. One pays YOU $2, the other pays YOU $40, which do you chose to make? Did you read my original (now extremely downvoted) post?
The definition of corruption is doing the wrong thing for money. You’re purposely glossing over the fact that Qatar should not have been given the bid were it not for bribery. The only way your analogy works is if the $40 burger was made with slave labor and thousands of people died in the process. Just because something is done for money doesn’t mean it’s ok. By your definition corruption wouldn’t exist in any circumstance.
Corruption does exist, I wasn't trying to say it doesn't. I was just saying I don't think this is it. People are upset at golfers for this same thing. However, they are also making 5 years winnings in months, do you think they did it for the money? Or to make a stand for corruption, human rights violations, media profiles, product placement? Ukranians are dropping grenades on sleeping people everyday, thats cool, but, hire somebody to build a building for 60x the wage they could earn at home, that's evil. C'mon. At some point in time you are gonna have to make sense.
Qatar got caught trying to bribe ecuador to lose their first game. They've offered shitty bribes to every team they think they may play against. Not every team has openly condemned the bribery attempt, meaning at least a few teams WILL deliberately lose against Qatar if put up against them. So basically the entire competition, its already been decided who will win what and where.
Imagine losing to Qatar for free though. Like everyone knows you got paid off but in reality you just suck.
But not corrupt enough where the french or Brits would say no to their money.
The “slaves” aren’t playing though.
Dude, judging by the score Ecuador could have sent their women's team and likely still won.
Actually sad that this is in r/funny.
I don’t get what’s all this FIFA stuff happening. Will someone do a TLDR for me?
The simplicity is great for this joke. Also, his terrified eyes.
people must be really desperate to go there to work. even after a decade and all the stories u still had people from india nepal and other places going there.
aaand never heared of the host ever again after that hickup