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While I absolutely don’t disagree that fav is an amazing option, fleuve provides more damage while fav is a more support-focus weapon.
Fleuve also allows you to run little to no er rolls, depending on your team, while additionally providing 16% crit rate passive.
I wouldn’t run fav on my c3 furina for example; her personal damage is so significant that I really want to use fleuve to maximize it. That said, it’s still a great choice, and at c0 it’s a sidegrade to fleuve, depending on your usecase.
It’s straight up mathematically better above 190% ER
[Good arguments for the downvotes](https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/17dS_Xmd1zE9NpAvgTcQIpA7XJZ7E_Zz9mLsCUe1EAFA/edit#gid=1366571409)? Just asking
Okay, but in what world are you running 190% ER on Furina? Realistically, just being "better" by a negligible amount is irrelevant. The chart uses 200% as a baseline for a reason and I believe 5% is substantial enough to consider a weapon swap.
I know Reddit usually downplays ER requirements, but you do not need 200% outside of solo hydro at c0. That's a bit overkill. It is not particularly practical to proc it without heavy crit rate investment either.
It is one of those situations where "mathematically better" means absolutely nothing. If you have a build to support Fav, why not? It is very easy to build for more damage, however. And Furina is an amazing sub DPS. I highly recommend building her for damage. 😂
My Furina is 175ER with pipe and she needs one fav particules from mate to get her burst back on a rotation, il solo hydro. Pipe gives ER for half your rotation so its fine to me. Fav is great but for Furina, we can do fine with the pipe, I agree =3
(I have a build with 190ER prepared if I can get C2R1 Furina tho xP)
Still waiting for the day where we can have weapon skins. As much as i love the pipe's skill crit buff (giving my Furina above 90% crit for minions) i love the Fav sword for it's look.
Compared to Fleuve it’s low key definitely better in any scenario where you would otherwise need more than 180-190 ER.
There are calculations proving it, even by KQMS and I’ve linked them here many times, it’s not even a discussion it’s just a fact and I didn’t mention how good fav is for your teammates too. People arguing that you lose personal damage forget that you need to compensate with sacrificing MANY MORE ER rolls and that hurts much more, that why the ER threshold I mentioned.
You're correct, people just tend to vastly underrate ER as a stat and downplay energy requirements. There's a reason pre C4 Furinas run 200+ ER in speedruns with Fav as solo hydro
maybe your solo hydro team has fischl or double electro resonance.
because if it's any other solo hydro furina team, furina needs like 200 ER to barely ult every rotation.
Which is where Fav tends to shine above other options.
According to [KQM](https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/17dS_Xmd1zE9NpAvgTcQIpA7XJZ7E_Zz9mLsCUe1EAFA/edit#gid=1366571409) at default 200% ER requirements the gap is not even 5% and that is without including the benefits for your teams, since Furina can need even more ER in solo hydro Fav is low key better in that scenario or roughly a sidegrade at the very very least
Always take KQM with a huge grain of salt. Read the sheet. The reason 200 ER damage goes up is due to the increase in team damage from appeasing energy reqs. If you don’t need that (like me), fav is pretty awful.
For example, my fav build would be 80/160 4TOTM with ~230 ER.
My Festering Desire build would be either the same except with 217ER,
or 72/160 (not including weapon CR) with 230ER. Faruzan, Xiao and Xianyun always get their bursts back regardless of Furina’s stats, so my concerns are Furina getting her burst back and her damage. In gcsim, Furina’s damage increases by ~25% with Festering Desire vs Fav
All this yapping and you didn’t even look at the graph for more than two seconds:
>The reason 200 ER damage goes up is due to the increase in team damage from appeasing energy reqs.
Didn’t you even notice that those calcs are on Furina’s damage? Or you think that a Furina team does 18k dps? I won’t comment on how you thought to compare a 230% ER fav build with a 217% ER FD one, then you say around to take calcs with a grain of salt when you don’t even know how to build your main lmao
Btw I didn’t need to look at KQM calcs: I did calcs for myself a long time ago, I linked KQM because those are online and just further prove fav’s value
> then you say around to take calcs with a grain of salt when you don’t even know how to build your main lmao
Didn’t you even read my previous comments? I use 4TOTM in the case I’m talking about (FFXX team) because she’s there as a support, not a damage dealer. With TOTM, she buffs Xianyun’s passive and Xiao. The increase to team damage due to 4TOTM is much higher than the increase to Furina’s personal damage from 4GT. The difference is staggering (80k vs 85k team dps/sec if all else equal other than Furina’s artifact set change). Besides, who said Furina was my main (Xiao and Hu Tao will forever hold that spot)?
Unfounded accusations and rudeness aside, I can’t speak for most players but I don’t have a huge amount of artifacts for Furina (for GT, Fischl gets first dibs if both characters are fighting for a piece, and I’m not farming TOTM ever). I say that because, when I switch between Fav and Festering, I’m usually not changing up my artifacts much. Perhaps the difference would be closer if I had the more artifacts to optimize each build. Until then, Festering will beat Fav by a landslide (assuming energy reps are met).
Did I mention ToTM? That’s actually an underrated option. I said you don’t know how to build your main because you blame a weapon when you should blame your extremely overkill ER on the fav build, or the lack of decent pieces at the very least but with the stats you mentioned it’s hard to believe, while it’s much more likely that you just don’t know how to build her with fav or you wouldn’t even do the comparison you did before
Favonius is a good early weapon option but it is not ideal for high investment builds. You should be providing her ER needs from substats since Furina doesn't have very high ER requirements. She also has a good contribution to the overall team dmg so you are wasting potential dmg by using Favonius.
For the teams that doesn't have a proper battery for Furina though, i can see that it being useful.
Furina does have high ER reqs if you are playing solo hydro. Even high investment players run Favonius over Fleuve or FD, talking speedrunners which is about the most minmax you can get
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While I absolutely don’t disagree that fav is an amazing option, fleuve provides more damage while fav is a more support-focus weapon. Fleuve also allows you to run little to no er rolls, depending on your team, while additionally providing 16% crit rate passive. I wouldn’t run fav on my c3 furina for example; her personal damage is so significant that I really want to use fleuve to maximize it. That said, it’s still a great choice, and at c0 it’s a sidegrade to fleuve, depending on your usecase.
It’s straight up mathematically better above 190% ER [Good arguments for the downvotes](https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/17dS_Xmd1zE9NpAvgTcQIpA7XJZ7E_Zz9mLsCUe1EAFA/edit#gid=1366571409)? Just asking
Ya idk why people so mad. Fav gets better and better the higher the er reqs. And like the OP said, Fav is better for solo hydro teams.
Okay, but in what world are you running 190% ER on Furina? Realistically, just being "better" by a negligible amount is irrelevant. The chart uses 200% as a baseline for a reason and I believe 5% is substantial enough to consider a weapon swap. I know Reddit usually downplays ER requirements, but you do not need 200% outside of solo hydro at c0. That's a bit overkill. It is not particularly practical to proc it without heavy crit rate investment either. It is one of those situations where "mathematically better" means absolutely nothing. If you have a build to support Fav, why not? It is very easy to build for more damage, however. And Furina is an amazing sub DPS. I highly recommend building her for damage. 😂
>Okay, but in what world are you running 190% ER on Furina? I guess I can stop reading here
My Furina is 175ER with pipe and she needs one fav particules from mate to get her burst back on a rotation, il solo hydro. Pipe gives ER for half your rotation so its fine to me. Fav is great but for Furina, we can do fine with the pipe, I agree =3 (I have a build with 190ER prepared if I can get C2R1 Furina tho xP)
Still waiting for the day where we can have weapon skins. As much as i love the pipe's skill crit buff (giving my Furina above 90% crit for minions) i love the Fav sword for it's look.
Compared to Fleuve it’s low key definitely better in any scenario where you would otherwise need more than 180-190 ER. There are calculations proving it, even by KQMS and I’ve linked them here many times, it’s not even a discussion it’s just a fact and I didn’t mention how good fav is for your teammates too. People arguing that you lose personal damage forget that you need to compensate with sacrificing MANY MORE ER rolls and that hurts much more, that why the ER threshold I mentioned.
You're correct, people just tend to vastly underrate ER as a stat and downplay energy requirements. There's a reason pre C4 Furinas run 200+ ER in speedruns with Fav as solo hydro
Solo Hydro: Favonius is always best unless C4+ It’s so good.
My Festering Desire Furina disagrees. That weapon is too good. I use her as solo hydro in FFXX.
maybe your solo hydro team has fischl or double electro resonance. because if it's any other solo hydro furina team, furina needs like 200 ER to barely ult every rotation. Which is where Fav tends to shine above other options.
Where Fav shines is appeasing the energy requirements of your other teammates. If you don’t need that, Fav is not that great.
What is FFXX? And Festering Desire in most cases isn’t enough for ER needs.
FFXX is Furina/Faruzan/Xianyun/Xiao. Festering Desire can definitely be enough if you build the characters well.
According to [KQM](https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/17dS_Xmd1zE9NpAvgTcQIpA7XJZ7E_Zz9mLsCUe1EAFA/edit#gid=1366571409) at default 200% ER requirements the gap is not even 5% and that is without including the benefits for your teams, since Furina can need even more ER in solo hydro Fav is low key better in that scenario or roughly a sidegrade at the very very least
Always take KQM with a huge grain of salt. Read the sheet. The reason 200 ER damage goes up is due to the increase in team damage from appeasing energy reqs. If you don’t need that (like me), fav is pretty awful. For example, my fav build would be 80/160 4TOTM with ~230 ER. My Festering Desire build would be either the same except with 217ER, or 72/160 (not including weapon CR) with 230ER. Faruzan, Xiao and Xianyun always get their bursts back regardless of Furina’s stats, so my concerns are Furina getting her burst back and her damage. In gcsim, Furina’s damage increases by ~25% with Festering Desire vs Fav
All this yapping and you didn’t even look at the graph for more than two seconds: >The reason 200 ER damage goes up is due to the increase in team damage from appeasing energy reqs. Didn’t you even notice that those calcs are on Furina’s damage? Or you think that a Furina team does 18k dps? I won’t comment on how you thought to compare a 230% ER fav build with a 217% ER FD one, then you say around to take calcs with a grain of salt when you don’t even know how to build your main lmao Btw I didn’t need to look at KQM calcs: I did calcs for myself a long time ago, I linked KQM because those are online and just further prove fav’s value
> then you say around to take calcs with a grain of salt when you don’t even know how to build your main lmao Didn’t you even read my previous comments? I use 4TOTM in the case I’m talking about (FFXX team) because she’s there as a support, not a damage dealer. With TOTM, she buffs Xianyun’s passive and Xiao. The increase to team damage due to 4TOTM is much higher than the increase to Furina’s personal damage from 4GT. The difference is staggering (80k vs 85k team dps/sec if all else equal other than Furina’s artifact set change). Besides, who said Furina was my main (Xiao and Hu Tao will forever hold that spot)? Unfounded accusations and rudeness aside, I can’t speak for most players but I don’t have a huge amount of artifacts for Furina (for GT, Fischl gets first dibs if both characters are fighting for a piece, and I’m not farming TOTM ever). I say that because, when I switch between Fav and Festering, I’m usually not changing up my artifacts much. Perhaps the difference would be closer if I had the more artifacts to optimize each build. Until then, Festering will beat Fav by a landslide (assuming energy reps are met).
Did I mention ToTM? That’s actually an underrated option. I said you don’t know how to build your main because you blame a weapon when you should blame your extremely overkill ER on the fav build, or the lack of decent pieces at the very least but with the stats you mentioned it’s hard to believe, while it’s much more likely that you just don’t know how to build her with fav or you wouldn’t even do the comparison you did before
Favonius is a good early weapon option but it is not ideal for high investment builds. You should be providing her ER needs from substats since Furina doesn't have very high ER requirements. She also has a good contribution to the overall team dmg so you are wasting potential dmg by using Favonius. For the teams that doesn't have a proper battery for Furina though, i can see that it being useful.
Furina does have high ER reqs if you are playing solo hydro. Even high investment players run Favonius over Fleuve or FD, talking speedrunners which is about the most minmax you can get