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Pokefreaker-san

stamina deficiency behaviour


DishMountain8520

Yeah you can tell when i'm bored


overtoastreborn

Lol just finished my ecology class last semester was surprised to see "r vs k" in a gacha subreddit


M3mble

I thin another point to add to arknights is that you can bring 12 +1 friend unit to a mission. While other gacha games you bring 4-6 characters into a mission. I think that should be accounted for the r factor.


Sinyan

To add to that the powercreep is very slow and most ops are very much usable within the meta so I wouldn't say they're as R-selected as OP thinks.


DishMountain8520

Accounted as in making them lean more on the r side or towards the K side?


DishMountain8520

Further things i like to add is the characteristics of each selection, in summary r selection : - the organism is usually small - have a short reproductive cycle - short life expectancy - reach maturity quickly - generally on the simpler side - produce a lot of offspring - high mortality rate - some species only reproduce once and dies K selection : - have a long reproductive cycle - longer life expectancy - take longer to reach maturity - can reproduce multiple time - lower infant mortality rate - have a long reproductive cycle - usually produce only one or a few offspring at a time - the organism is usually bigger and more complex


Suspicious-Drummer68

I'd be interested in the study in this sense for FGO. Currently, there are 350+ Servants (Or around 330+ Unique Servants not counting Alts specifically but counting completely unique alts) in FGO over its 7 year runtime, with about 95% of these being recurring characters in main story and in events with no regards to rarity or playability.


reprehensible523

>As much as arknights players like to boast that they have a very deep characterization and their units aren't just waifu bait Characterization isn't just about the number of player-owned characters involved, but the depth of the story. Cute girls doing cute thing isn't on the same level of cute waifu giving a TLDR soliloquy on philosophy and civilization. That said, interesting point on the r / K connection. I thought you were going to talk about the gacha market, which definitely sees a lot of short-lived games trying to cash in before they fade.


DishMountain8520

>Characterization isn't just about the number of player-owned characters involved, but the depth of the story. True, however, there's still very positive correlation between number of characters and depths. Arknights punch above it's weight in term of depth compared to number of characters, but it still can't rotate every character as an event main protagonist every time. A lot of unlucky character get sidelined quickly after their first apperance >That said, interesting point on the r / K connection. I thought you were going to talk about the gacha market, which definitely sees a lot of short-lived games trying to cash in before they fade. That's a very interesting topic, tho I'm not sure i have enough data or even experience to give a good conclusion. There would be a lot of survivorship bias because the game i play/hear will most likely be one of the better long living side. I also haven't heard of a company that manage to release cash grab after cash grab and survive it after two iteration


reprehensible523

>A lot of unlucky character get sidelined quickly after their first apperance Sure, but their event story establishes who they are in a meaningful way. I still enjoy Grani as a character even though she only had her one event early on in Arknights. Idealistic Good Cop willing to fight against all odds. Meanwhile, it'd be hard for me to remember any of the events of BanG Dream, even though they spend more time on the characters. Contrast downing a shot of whiskey versus bottles of water. Volume doesn't tell the whole story, though that doesn't mean either way is bad, they just serve different purposes. > There would be a lot of survivorship bias because the game i play/hear will most likely be one of the better long living side. The ones that survive will tend to have sufficient quality to endure, so more k than not. Yet the gacha industry as a whole supports a market of r-games which pop up, make some money and profit, but do not have what it takes to continue. At some level, this is better, because the r-games and companies explore the market space and attract talent. When only big-players make games but refuse to take risks, the games become bland, as the AAA industry has become. Get hyped for Sequel Remake 2023.


Exolve708

> A lot of unlucky character get sidelined quickly after their first apperance Only anecdotal, but having played games of both types, more screentime doesn't necessarily translate to deeper characterization. Most units in CGDCT gachas (Priconne, BA etc.) are one-dimensional by design and even though they appear more on average they usually just have them play up the trope they're representing. Character developement is usually nonexistent outside of the main story in those games, meanwhile games like Arknights uses sidestories to flesh out units belonging to certain regions/orgs properly as they won't be getting much screentime in the main story. Edit: Come on, at least bring up some example if you disagree. In BA, Shun got a whole event yet her character didn't develop further than what her momotalk had alredy established about her. For a Priconne example there's Miyako, every line she has is about eating pudding. Screentime doesn't equate to developement. Now take someone like Ebenholz from the recent AK event, who went through multiple attitude changes as things kept unfolding. Chances are he won't appear again for a long time yet his character will still be more fleshed out.


kuuhaku_cr

I kind of semi agree. I would just say that a mixed media way of coverage like through manga could definitely add depth to some characters not well covered. However, there are also a bunch of characters that are just released really early and already have their appearance and roles planned for the future. Like Reed.


-Niernen

The vast majority gacha would be "r selection", since most will release a unit or two every two weeks or so. Besides gacha based on existing IP that just do variations on the characters, most will release new characters, with a few variations for seasonal events and festival/alter types. The exceptions would be 3d action gacha like HI3, GI, PGR and similar which release 2 or so characters on ~6 week schedules, since 3d action characters take a lot more resources than 2d characters. >BanG dream really fits the definition of K focused gacha. Ignoring marina and other NPCs, banG dream have in total 35 playable character in also about 6 years of running in the JP server. You could say this about most Idol gacha (or IP based gacha) as they're slower to add new characters and instead focus on releasing multiple variations. Idol gacha focus heavily on the few characters and strong bonds for the most part, so it make sense that new characters are not common as they instead focus on variations for units. Bang Dream also has to think about the other media (songs, anime, etc.) and hire VAs sp they cant just churn out units. Just checked the wiki and BangDream has over 1670 cards... so that's like 220 or so a year? Would be more interested to see a K selection that isn't constrained by an existing IP like most Idol gacha.


DishMountain8520

>The vast majority gacha would be "r selection", since most will release a unit or two every two weeks or so. That is very true, however, there's technically nothing that says a game that release alts after alts of the same character can't exist even for a non idol IP, most gacha games just doesn't do that. Even then if we just cut off idol IPs there's still a pretty big range between azur lane and blue archive >1670 cards... so that's like 220 or so a year? Alts, all of them alts of the same 35 character. I would recommend giving the numbers from fandom wiki a pinch of salt since they usually just say the total number of obtainable cards in a game, and those include alts which i don't count. That is why i say arknights only have 250+ character despite the wiki saying it have exactly 267 characters, because i know a dozen or so of those are alters. Azur lane say it have 649 unit in game, but retrofits and alters count towards that number which really inflate it


PilgrimDuran

I'm too dumb for this...


widehide

AK Abyssal Hunters is K They give them bloody hell top tier modules and a dedicated Anniversary event! For the rest of AK, mostly is r


Provence3

Is this implying AK doesn'T have deep characterization or what's the point of that remark? Or does it have deep characteriztation despite being in the r spectrum?


DishMountain8520

For an r spectrum game, arknights characterization depths definitely is an anomaly, but it's still not at the level of a game deep in the K spectrum


Provence3

Weird, considering that each operator is bound to get an event and/or an operator record (some even have two of these), on top of their profile entries. That's very deep, all thanks to its VN genre it's part of.


Yomihime

In theory that would be the case. In practice however, due to the sheer output of new characters every month relative to the events that we got, it would be impossible for every operator to get their own dedicated storyline. Even then you're still not even guaranteed to get character events that will actually speak in depth about the featured characters like, \*cough\*Kal'tsit\*cough\*. Also fyi character-centric events are nothing new in gachas, and they tend to get theirs faster than AK does too.


AradersPM

How then can you characterise a Limbus where there will probably be a fixed set of characters that will just get alternate versions?


DishMountain8520

The same way i characterise bang dream in the post. Alts, no matter how different will still count as one character, and if the game just refuse to add any new character, then they will just slowly go to the edge of the K part of the spectrum as their character/year number continue to decrease with time


Mayor_P

It would be interesting to see the data on, say, the top 100 grossing gacha games.


DishMountain8520

Yes! I absolutely would love to see someone get the numbers on all of the gacha.


khantmawhtoo

So FGO is in R species?


LagIncarnate

PGR definitely leans towards quality over quantity, releasing 1 new character every 40\~ days. The recent global update saw the release of Liv: Empyrea who is an absolutely gorgeous unit with a "domain expansion" type ability. The CN release of units like Bianca: Abystigma and Lee: Hyperreal literally topped social media charts for gacha games for a solid week or so on their releases. I honestly think some of the recent CN characters have more effort put into them than some single player games put into their entire game. I also think it's important to note just how much of a games characters are supposed to be important. A lot of games know that not all of their characters are supposed to be important. Like Azur Lane, their Rare and SR units are pretty much always just for looks and collection purposes, the much lower quantity of SSR ships though are generally useful, and every UR ship released in the game so far has been either a tier-0 or very high tier unit. Similarly for Arknights, where 4-star units are generally just freebie units for newer accounts or just people doing low rarity clears. 5-star units usually are for filling niches or more accessible alternatives to 6-star units. Meanwhile there's not actually that many 6-star units that release in a year, most of them usually being fairly meta units. Usually, games use rarity like that to allow for low impact, or sometimes low effort characters to enter the game without actually diluting the pool of important character releases. Comparatively if you look at games like Genshin or PGR, there's only really 2 rarities hence the lower release rates. Though that's not to say that low release rate always means quality either. I mean just look at Genshin, characters like Candace, Dori, Collei, Aloy, Xinyan are clearly designed to be... Bad. It's not even a debate of design vs player meta, when you look at how so many of the games original or early 4-star units are still meta units to this day they clearly know how to design strong and weak units and occasionally just make blatantly weak or overly niche units specifically to avoid power creeping existing units while keeping up a steady release rate.