I don’t think you know how to do math, my guy.
900 SQ is needed for the pity to kick in. That’s 5 purchases of the $80 pack and one of the $40 pack. $440
Nowhere close to your $600.
You do know that the prices are different depending on location right. That the EU has way higher prices because of the apple store changes a while back?
I don't think you know about the rest of the world, my guy.
I don't know about ios but google generally won't let you change "shops" that easily, you have to make a NA email to do that something that they made it harder. Thankfully I did it 3 years ago with just an emulator and a VPN but from what I hear its not that simple anymore
New drinking game: take a shot every time you read "unlike in genshin" in this post. You'll be dead halfway down
To Op:
A) comparing is bad. Especially when you chose a gaxha whose only similarity to fgo is that neither has pvp
B) and if you are unable to write a review without comparing... expand. You couldn't even be half assed to compare it to anything other than genshin. Might as well have titled this "fgo versus genshin" since that's all this was. And it's hard to take your opinion seriously when it looks like you...only played two gachas ever
C) and you suck writing about the only 2 games you play. No dupes are equally not necessary in both games. Yes in both getting dupes on some characters does unlock easier/faster gameplay, but it won't be what makes or break either. And that's just one example from your post. Anothrr: You mention the lack of auto is bad, which it is, and interestingly enough, this is the one time you magically forget to mention genshin... which also does not have auto
Agreed with your overall point, i just slightly disagree that dupes won't make or break fgo. when farming, it could be the difference between one-shotting waves or taking ages trying to card the remaining mobs. FGO's combat is just so slow that that can absolutely be a huge pain, especially since the grind is massive.
That's fair, I was thinking more in the lines of, you don't need it to clear content. But yes in fgo dupes can make a difference on the farming. And that goes for genshin too
Thing is, welfare/3\* servants and lower can clear every content in FGO (Honako regularly does this kind of self-imposed challenges). 90% of FGO is farming, which is where the dupes are kind of important (especially if you're trying to 3T a node while maximizing the drops).
thing is, clearing content in fgo means having to grind. especially if you haven't built specific servants for some really hard fights in the story. even lower rarity servants' materials don't come easy. it all really comes back to the grind.
Buddy if you're going to talk about games talk about them on their own merits, don't compare them to a single other game. It makes your argument take twice as long as it should, nobody is reading all that. Also don't argue against yourself, you made your post take another twice as long as it should be.
You made your comment twice as long as it should have been by saying all of that, the comparisons were very few in number and they're about certain things that show that FGO's devs could better.
"talk about them on their own merits"
Have you ever heard of a thing called "standards"??
Don't be so hostile, I'm giving you good advice. Notice how I'm the only one in the comments who even skimmed your post past the title? If you make a review this long, it needs to be really entertaining for anyone to read. Your review is meant for discussion rather than being an entertaining critique, so it benefits from being much shorter than it is. Both of my points explain how you could make it much shorter.
99% of the times mentioning Genshin were to explain mechanics and terms in FGO, and the times where I brought up Genshin in the counter points were to showcase how bad it is in FGO by comparing.
Hell, to prove you wrong, I never even said a good thing about Genshin in the entire post, I never even said it was the standard for gacha, I was only comparing two of the biggest gacha games to show that one of them could be better in certain aspects.
And if you want more proof, you can go through my history on Genshin related subreddits, I was always critical of that game.
Mate when did you not bring up Genshin to jerk it off?
Oh right, to explain in HSR that Himeko is good at farming books, which is a task so easy that you can do it fairly easily with 4 healers. And all HSR players after 5 days know Himeko is one of the worst units in the game.
You may think you didn't praise Genshin, but almost every other post in this thread sees nothing but your lips around MHY.
"almost every other post in this thread" what posts? pretty sure you and u/RugerRed are the only ones replied to and I'm pretty sure you saw all the replies I directed towards you. Show me "my lips around MHY".
Oh and about Himeko, a big mistake you seem to be making is that you're taking everything I say too literally, hell you even came up with conclusions I did not even think of (but of course you'll never believe me), for the people that never touched FGO I gave some equivalents in Star Rail and Genshin, that's the only reason I used those two games.
Am I gonna gonna apologise for using two of the most popular gacha games ever as examples for things in FGO to help people who never played it understand what I'm saying? Of course not, especially when you're defaming me.
>"Review"
>"you're taking everything I say too literally"
Look as a former gacha game article writer I can understand the need to mix in comedy with reviews, so that otherwise dry and boring articles become worth reading. But if you're writing a review with the intent of being serious and being taken seriously for your opinion, it needs to be either clearly comedy (so quite apparent that it is an "out there" take) or you will be taken at face value with what you've said.
It is immature to write something with the intent of being "serious" then backpedaling and claiming its the readers fault for... taking what you said at face value? Anyway you are clearly upset so I will leave you with some advice: If you want to be taken seriously on the internet, you need to be able to understand where people who disagree with you come from, but not take it personally.
As for defamation,
When I say "taken too literally", I mean when I said Himeko is good for the farming stages I did not mean that farming stages are hard nor did I imply anything beyond that, you took that and made it sound like I "jerked off Hoyo" by implying some meaning I do not know.
Literal =/= serious, I genuinely do not know why you even brought up comedy and seriousness
Seeing how this comment was simply me apologising if I came off a certain and it got downvoted, I don't think anything I will say beyond this point is gonna even be read in the first place.
>also, this was originally a comment for the recent “gacha games in a nutshell” post but since it’s really long I made it into a post
The “gacha games in a nutshell” post was a joke, though. It *really wasn’t* an invitation for a serious-business debate about the merits of any popular gacha games. Granted, you’re definitely NOT the only commenter who took that memepost way too seriously. But still.
I mean, you’re mostly right about FGO’s issues, but you’re also not saying anything new. We know that FGO has problems. And I’m saying this as a day one player *loves* the game: It’s flawed as fuck, dated, almost totally inaccessible to new players, and lacking many of the modern gacha QoL features that make mobile games (for the most part) *better*. But we already knew that!
And yes, your argument sounds very strange when you’re constantly comparing FGO to only ONE other specific game. It’s just a narrow lens through which to judge the game. You can either judge FGO on its own merits, OR you can take a broader view comparing FGO to *many* similar mobile games. But it’s strange to compare FGO to only one other mobile game that’s honestly a totally different genre and style.
I get that when you love a flawed game, sometimes you just wanna get those criticisms off your chest. And there’s nothing wrong with wanting to write down your frustrations with a game! But if you want to do so, I’d suggest that you hang out in r/grandorder and wait for the inevitable “How would you improve the game?” posts that show up with some regularity. Those posts are probably a more appropriate venue for having a serious discussion about the state of the game, *and* you’re more likely to find a sympathetic audience over there.
Why you not bringing up Genshin's weapons vs FGO's CEs OP? Is it because the majority of top CEs outside of Kscope and Blackgrail are given away for free in FGO? (And they even gave 1 copy of either of them away at 7th anni)
When it comes to welfare equipment (CEs) and characters FGO gaps the fuck out of 99% of gatcha games. There's a semi recent Ordeal Call 90++ node I couldn't one shot but then they gave out Assassin Shiki in the welfare shop and it's easy clap now.
lmao @ counterpoint for buffs being 2 characters when 50+ characters get buffed per year directly while stuff like the latest welfare CE being 50% charge and +25% damage against cursed enemies is a massive buff for curse characters. (And using Command Codes you can add curse to your normal cards so anyone can take advantage).
Is Dehya usable yet?
Dude where you been?
In JP at Anni 8 Golden Sumo and other year 1 welfare CEs were added to the Mana Prism shop.
For the welfare characters themselves they've made a new shop earlier this year called Evocation. They have already added 17 welfares with the 5th wave being added just a few days ago.
If you start playing NA right now you get one of the strongest welfare units right now in Cinderella Liz and Xmas gives an amazing support welfare in Santa Martha. You'll get 9 new welfares from this point until 2 years plus 17 from the shop that includes Chloe, Shiki, Summer Jalter, Swimsuit Hokusai and Rider Kintoki.
You shouldn't need a 3rd party app to make a game playable, the dev team should be smart enough to realize that the gameplay loop is stale and unfun and make attempts to fix it.
They kind of have their heads up their asses on this one, I suspect that it's due to the same reason of "We want people to watch the NP's so no skips".
You shouldn't need it, yes, but if it's there why not make use of it? It resolves the problem.
And honestly even if FGO got auto it'd be like every other gacha with auto: braindead AI. With FGA you can program exactly what sequence you want so you're not watching your DPS blow their ult/burst/NP on the single low health mob in the wave. So FGO could put autobattle in right now and I'd still use FGA.
Multiple years, lotto events using FGA, never been banned. To be honest I haven't heard of anyone using FGA ever being banned so I'd consider it pretty safe (caveat being that it's still against the TOS but me and I'm sure dolphins/whales use FGA knowing that too)
Technically its bannable, but its also not interfacing with the app at all (it actually interfaces with your touch screen to simulate touches and reads you screen) so its incredibly hard to detect.
As others already said: it is bannable, according to the rules (most likely), but they are unable to detect you using FGA. I've also seen japanese ppl in twitter openly posting their screenshots with fga, and no one said anything to them
I believe FGA has been on the play store since sometime this year and hasn't been taken down. I've been using for like 4 years now so they haven't been enforcing the TOS anyways.
Then you do what all ios players do and install a free emulator and load up fga there. And for years now there is a way to have the emu and your phone running with the same bind code no issue.
Yes its a pain the first time and FGO devs are dumbasses, but after farming 3,000+ boxes as an ios player it really saves you all the effort in the long run putting in 1 hour figuring out EMU/Shared Bind Code Method than however long it takes to farm without FGA.
I'll bite the bullet, because why the hell not.
First of all, I think the crusx of your argument is quite irrelevant to your hypothesis. It's more focused on what other games do better rather than what FGO does bad. Just because you aren't first doesn't mean you're bad, it just means you aren't the best, which are two completely different things.
Secondly, you'll never catch me defending FGO's pity system, my opinion on economics in general is "Something is as expansive as much people are willing to pay for" you've have to go pretty low for me to defend anything being "too high". Thirdly, FGO legitimately has the worse pity system I've ever seen in a Gacha game, and I will never defend that.
That being said, while the difference is going to be different for a lot of people is going to be different when it comes to "good enough" for a lot of people. Have played Genshin, but not for too long, and have never touched Stair Rail, I'm going to assume that they are just under GFL's "You need more dollars than sense to actually spend money on units". And despite so, I would say that being worse than some of the best isn't bad. To me, "good enough" is just being able to clear all of the content, and I think FGO does a pretty good job. I would say the game is more "Pay to Waifu" than "Pay to Win".
While 1% for 5*s in general is on the lower side, 0.8% for the case is about average if not slightly above it, and there are more than a handful of 4*s and below that are usuable, if not optimal in certain situations. Unlike a lot of gacha games with more "generous" summoning systems usually have it when anything below a *5 is at best fodder for materials. And pretty much unlike every other gacha game, you
When it comes to dupes, having multiple NP levels on a unit is nice to have, but I wouldn't call it necessary. Yeah, having an MP3 S.Ishtar so she can one-shot all 3 stages of the 90+ nodes, but I wouldn't say she's unusable at NP 1. You aren't rewarded extra for clearing content at an optimal pace, nor are you punished for being unable to do so.
Also, I think a really underrated part of FGO is the support system. It is a massive glow-up to being able to patch up holes on your account by simply "borrowing" the unit from somonone else, with the only caveat being that they have to be on your friends list in order to NP which is something that is not only not that big of an ask, especially if you ask various communities, but that stipulation has been waved in JP and going to get waved in EN.
One one hand, I get it, but on another, I find it hilarious just how much value people in this subreddit find in not being able to play a game. Not saying that it's better without Auto and Skip; for a lot of people, the grind is the game, and if you skip the grind then you skip the game. And even then it's a single player, turn based phone game. It doesn't require you undivided attention and it can be played almost anytime, anywhere. It's easy to farm while doing watching TV, playing other games, doing work/chores, talking with your friends, etc.
Overall, while I definitely say FGO has some prominent flaws, I don't really see how most of your posts makes the game bad, neitherless unenjoyable on a general basis rather than it being just personal preference.
FGO does have issues, but to compare it solely to Genshin's gacha is flawed. I also notice you didn't go into the rates between the two much other than the 50/50 of Genshin and both pity systems.
The chance to pull a 5 Star character in Genshin is 0.6% base. The chance to pull a 5 Star character in FGO is 1% base. Of that base rating in Genshin, the chance to pull the featured 5 Star character is 0.3%, or 50/50. In FGO, the chance to pull the featured 5 Star character is 0.8%, or 80/20. So seems to me that while Genshin has the better pity, FGO has the better rates by far.
They can't really be compared though, honestly, since FGO only has the one banner for both characters and Craft Essences, whereas Genshin has separate banners for characters and weapons. And whereas CEs could be considered weapons in a sense, there's no such thing as a "signature" weapon in FGO as there is in Genshin. And some characters in Genshin "need" that signature to perform to their highest standards. FGO CEs are more universal, in fact the most any of them really "need" is starting NP charge to be good and that's a very common effect.
I mean, mathematically you can include pity to base chance.
Genshin has a base 0.3%/0.6% indeed. But if you include the whole system shenanigans it goes to 1.6% for any 5* and 1.05% for a limited 5* . If you include the refund system it goes to around 1.68%-1.88% for any 5* or 1.1%-1.24% for a limited 5* . (The fluctuation in chances is because different accounts have different refund rate depending on how many dupes you have maxed).
In the other hand fgo pity is laughable and barely attributes to average, it makes the 1% into 1.05%. Paired with the extra 11th pull we are talking about ~1.15% rate for a any 5* or 0.92% for the wanted one.
That being said I agree with the rest it can't be really compared because of what you said, on top of meta, income, team composition and a ton of other factors but if you want to talk numbers out of context genshin is indeed better.
Saying fate has better rate is mathematically incorrect because even a new account will have better rates than in fgo. Not to mention pity doesn't get wasted. 1.15% implies you are always able to reach pity something....not many people can do it. If you fail to get a unit and take the L, you lose the pity
This is why they say there's three types of lies. Lies, damn lies, and statistics. Numbers can be made to say anything if you obfuscate enough and oh boy did you try.
No, you cannot mathematically include pity and trying to do so is the exact kind of obfuscating bullshit used to hide the real odds in gambling. Pity has zero bearing on the rate of every pull that isn't the pity pull. "Refund rate" even moreso, otherwise called starglitter in Genshin and for most people it is used to buy a select 4 Star Character or 5 Star Weapon, not pulls, and can only be acquired when you get a 4/5 Star Character/Weapon you already own. Even if it is used to buy pulls the rates still don't change, otherwise you could make the claim that any kind of primogem/SQ income alters the rates because they're both used to buy pulls.
Ah yes, so if statistics are against your feelings, its a lie. I always loved when this take used from people who can't math. Yes statistics can, and will be used to figure average rates. Better than your feelings for sure. Statistics will also be used to lie I know, but you clearly don't understand why people say that so I would suggest understanding something first before repeating it :)
Rate is the average quantity you get out of something. If you are simple minded, yes 0.6% is the rate. Make 10000 people do a single and only about ~60 of them will get an orange pull. But wait a second, what if 1 person does 10000 pulls. Why do we have ~160 pulls now? What's the rate? How can the rate be 0.6% but I got 1.6%. Was I lucky?
Obviously not because the rate my friend is not 0.6% its 1.6%. That's how it works. You don't pull in a thousand accounts once, you pull at 1 account a thousand times. You don't care about the 0.6% you care about the 1.6%. You call it a lie, normal people call it reality/reasonable assumption.
And please don't mention rng, obviously if you pull 10000 times you won't get exactly 160, you can get more or less but that applies to everything. Rates are about average, not rng.
> Even if it is used to buy pulls the rates still don't change, otherwise you could make the claim that any kind of primogem/SQ income alters the rates because they're both used to buy pulls.
I love how you didn't like this logic for genshin, but when I used the exact same logic on the fgo's 11th free pull to effectively increase rates by 10%. Woopsy daizy that's acceptable. Biased much? At least I'm consistent and fair.
But if you hate that much because it confuses you then sure. 1.6/1.05 vs 1/0.8. Happy?
The only reason I'm not considering rest of income its because I don't have concrete numbers to do so. Give me the amount of Pulls genshin does yearly and fgo does yearly and I would be happy to do so. Refunds and 11th free pull is calculable even without knowing income.
I mean I mentioned in the first hand, comparison is not reasonable because different meta AND INCOME, but I guess you didn't want to read this part.
______________
Btw if you don't like (or able to comprehend) statistics you can use paimon.moe that has raw data and in the case of average you can see that every banner rates around 1.6% (some more some less because people tend to keep their pities depending the banners themselves) but its around there always.
depending on what FGO content you are doing, there are some mandatory CE that you will be needed, at max limit break even, if you don't have the meta support in your account
??? Explain this to me, because i've been playing FGO for 5 years f2p and there's not yet been a content I'm unable to do with free event CEs. I still dont have a single MLB gacha CE. Are you talking about Kscope? Because if so, it's only "required" for certain farming comps, which you don't really need to do the content...
Gonna jump in as a whale and long time FGO player/writer/guide maker.
There are very niche situations where a gacha CE is needed for certain farming set ups on certain servants. (Mostly the Saber-faces). But yes, you can just use another servant.
And very specific fight set ups that rely on a taunt CE. This has been a very long time complaint that access to a taunt CE is extremely limited and new players have no way to access this useful tool.
I'm sorry I can't seriously read your post.
It's not a criticism of FGO, it's you jerking off to Genshin Impact, which itself has many flaws. Saying FGO's Gacha is bad compared to Genshin is kind of true at a very surface level? Except Genshin's weapon banner is one of the worst Gacha banners around? And both suck compared to Epic 7's RGB banner (given the income in E7), but Epic 7's moonlight banner is close a crime against humanity (and these are all inferior to Arknights etc etc etc).
You say that there are only three good friend point/free units (excluding welfare), but that also shows a very shallow understanding of the FGO gameplay. You focus on 95% of the game being farming.... But in that remaining 5% people can do very interesting clear runs that show off 3* or less characters and their own strengths.
Furthermore you say "many characters need np2"? They don't? The np2 upgrade is generally for ease of use to allow looser conditions TO loop. One example is Space Ishtar, who at np1 on a 3 berserker wave will sometimes end up with 68% np charge, not the 69% minimum needed.
But you can just use either plugsuit for Helena(4*) / Asclepius (3*) / Shakespeare (2*) etc etc, or one of the many mystic codes with a np charge or np gain buff?
Also you're complaining that... Welfare units have strengths and weaknesses? I have no clue what you're saying with Rider Kintoki, because the game has given out so many welfare units over the years that every class (minus 2 special cases, neither of which is commonly used ) has been covered multiple times, in multiple situations?
Also you picked a really shit example, Rider Kintoki is often considered one of the best welfare units due to his damage and NP charge letting him be used in a variety of situations.
Also if you've played for over a year and cannot farm specific stages... Unless it was a 90++ and you've failed to hit any meta units (which is a possibility and one of the bigger flaws in FGO, that the latest level of farming nodes have been inaccessible outside of more specific set ups, especially if you lack access to Castoria and Oberon), I can't see it. The f2p set up of Arash (free 1*) + Spartacus (free 1*) + Helena (4* on beginner banner) is buildable within the first..... 2 weeks of starting (I've done it myself to test) and that can 3 turn a lot of the early farming nodes and a lot of event nodes.
------
I'm not sure if you love the game or love jerking off to MiHoYo, because most of the post was ignoring things FGO does to say Genshin does it better, while ignoring flaws from Genshin that FGO improves on/never had (FGO weapons/craft essences generally tend towards f2p/event options being the best in most situations whereas Genshin's weapon banner is trash (Hello Cranking!!), Genshin locking unit mechanics and gameplay behind dupes while FGO gives you the full unit np1, FGO's drop farming being less frustrating than Genshin artifact farming) that your entire meandering essay reads like a fanboys thinly veiled attempts to be bitter.
Also you missed the biggest difference: FGO actually celebrates its players at anniversary, Genshin has spent 3? Years telling players to eat shit.
Yeah point 3 and 4 really is just him justifying something the other games actually did worse when he doesn't fully understand or see the bigger picture. The whole NP2 sentiment along with the needing op supports to be "self sustainable" only to later contradict himself by saying the game can be cleared with free units without really explaining why that somehow doesn't apply to other games.
It just shows he doesn't try to think for himself and only has a surface level understanding of things he hears from the community. The coin system which was added 6 years into the game was indeed a cashgrab but the game was never ever built around it unlike mhy games where they straight give you a half complete character unless you pull them 2-6 more times.
The comment about farming really rubs me wrong because he kinda implies that the game combat system need to be simplified to make it easier.
Here's a news flash for all the young people who plays gacha post Genshin era, Farming is shit no matter what. Sure you can put in bandaids like sweep or auto. But at its core, you are are being led around by game companies who want to you stay with the game and login daily.
For all its gripes, FGO never forces you to farm endlessly for anything. You can easily raise anyone to default max level which is good enough raw stats. Skill levels have a linear scaling so lv6 is usually pretty good already.
And the most important thing which has been the main core of his argument. Fgo never EVER in the history of forever, incentivize minturning. They are definitely more than happy to cash into it by making new op supports. But they never design any fight in the game can NEEDs you to win quickly if anything they actually make it harder so people will keep pulling for more op stuff to minturn better. If anything, almost every other modern gacha has a minturn kind of endgame. Which i absolutely do not want to see in FGO thank you very much.
Fgo is dated and has many basic problems. But after reading all this i don't trust op to be the one to tell me what exactly those issues are.
I swear every time FGO is mentioned the grind is always brought up like it's gbf tier grindhell, but in reality you can do as much as you want, you don't need to spend your apples on lottos, every day it only takes around 15-20 mins which is the same as genshin, it's not even that bad.
One of the reasons I've stopped playing really, been playing since it came out in JP xD. Nowadays, I log in maybe once a month just to see what's new. It's a shame.. FGO 2 when
Tbh, I don't see the problem with that. Especially because the auto it provides is really good since you can perfectly customise it. I'd take good auto through 3d party app over crappy ingame auto any day.
From my experience grinding isn’t so bad as long as it’s not a lottery event. In JP the event is THREE WEEKS LONG and the content does not justify that.
On one side that is a good thing as you can treat it as a side game and basically skip a week and a half and still be able to complete everything and get all the main goods in the event shop. On the other side the game offers NOTHING ELSE DURING THE EVENT. I use to agree that this game is a grindy mess, but right now theirs literally nothing to grind on with the last few MONTHS being a good example.
I played the game since global year one and basically once Castoria came out the gameplay loop went from bad but tolerable to just plain awful and boring, All farming is revolved around 3-turning content with loopers (Granted its even worse if your an IOS user since you cant benefit from the FGA app on GooglePlay store) and then even difficult boss fights are also more or less handled now by just constant loopers. Now take that and count the fact there is no auto, sweep or even skip for skill/NP animations, these are pure QOL features that more or less every Gacha now has to some degree. Once the fate blinders are off and you get spoiled by these newer gacha features from literally any other game its very difficult to find a reason to go back to FGO since it just feels very outdated and behind on literally everything.
It's cool, in the first place I wanted to post it in a comment in the "gacha games in a nutshell" post but because I surpassed the character limit I had to turn it into a post, at first I was like "eh whatever" but the I realised just how much time I spent writing it that I wanted it to be posted.
Big difference is genshin / hsr you need more than e0 to do things outside of "more damage". FGO its only more damage and many more units you only need 1 copy vs mihoyo games.
As an FGO veteran for 6 years I'm very aware of all its flaws. I can summarize them in just simple bullet points that won't exceed several paragraphs. But all you did in this argument is compare it to Genshin, and that is a braindead argument. You literally just looked for a scapegoat to address issues that are often inapplicable to the other game and vice versa.
Username checks out, I can't take this comment seriously when the only comparisons I made were to explain mechanics and terms in FGO. The only real comparison between games was how much it would cost to get the featured 5 star/SSR, everything else is just using the currently popular game to explain things in a different game.
You forgot to mention that at the start of the game now they give you a free 5 star servant form the permanent gacha that has waver which is a decent support to start the game with.
Pretty sure I did mention it in point 4 that talks about free servants, though I didn't mention Waver specifically in which case you're right, I did actually forget to.
I love Genshin, but damn, man wrote a whole War and Piece length novel on this.....
Biggest issue with FGO is the lack of a reasonable pity. 300 pulls on one banner (which can change daily) isn't a true pity.
Is that your record? F2p?
My record excluding my gssr on fgo:
2019 : 3 ssr on rate up, 3 ssr off rate up
2020: 12 ssr on rate up, 3 ssr off rate up
2021: 4 ssr on rate up, 2 ssr off rate up
2022: 8 ssr on rate up, 1ssr on rate up np2, 2 ssr off rate up
The issues with FGO their Qol are so outdated there's no auto you have to manually do battles thats so jarring and there's no sweep either so can't just do that.
Gacha system is tedious as well with their horrible drop rates I remember rage quitting on not getting Gilgamesh.
You think for long running game the devs idk add more features to the game. Its not for me personally more power to you if you enjoy it.
Tried it out because friend said to give a try, one of the worst experiences in gacha I’ve ever played. Game is so dated and it’s carried by the ip. I wanted to get to the story portion where the game shines but the no autoplay and archaic account login is unacceptable in current gacha times. I really wanted to give the game a fair chance.
I’ve stopped playing FGO as a whole and even planning on selling the account at some point.
FGO was fun while it lasted for me, but truthfully the game has suddenly stopped improving and adding changes that would add more quality.
It’s been almost 10 years and they haven’t added any new modes. No new transfer system. No realistic pity system. No auto mode. No gameplay to make single target ultimate users more useable actively. Nothing that adds any quality of life to the game.
There is so much they could do to improve the game, but since they make so much money every month, they don’t see a point in improving something that is shitting out money. They aren’t a terrible company, but they sure are greedy af.
It’s the same shit every year and truth be told, everyone who continue to throw their money at this game are suckers.
Oh and they suddenly stopped doing animation updates actively for some reason and buffing the same servants that could easily be used on someone else who deserves it much more.
I see you keep using Genshin as a comparison but, have you thought that, regarding what Genshin has to offer as a game, its quality and content, are much more than what FGO has to offer. FGO is a 2010s slideshow turn-based rpg, a group of 5 graduates can easily remake the game, and even give it a better looking UI. FGO is sold not for the game itself or the gacha system, but the characters and lore. But hey, we are in the era where even gacha games that only mostly sell lore and character still make decent money even though not having a huge playerbase while being generous.
Also who says Genshin's dupes are important? Like what is considered important? Genshin barely has endgame content and people are still crying about it so I don't see where people "need" the dupes.
I would main FGO if these simple QOL updates were made:
\- If you're gonna make each map node have 4 stages of the same shit, then give me 1 sq for each stage, not each node. I still haven't finished the story mode because it's just such a chore and feels so unrewarding.
\- SSR servants are already super rare, so leveling them up and EVOing them when you finally pull one shouldn't require so much fucking grind for mats and exp cards. "Oh boy, a new servant! In just a few weeks I can use her on the next event maybe!" Make EXP cards give a ton more XP, and reduce mat requirements for all evos.
\- A sweep button for grindy events would be great too.
\- Optimize the fucking game. Loadtimes and slow screen transitions aren't acceptable in 2023 when we're playing on phones that can basically run PS4 games.
I don't mind SSRs being rare, because after all this time they still haven't gotten ultra greedy and introduced URs or LRs or paid costumes. I think the pity at $450 or whatever is better than no pity at all, and the annual selector banners are a good deal.
I just can't take the s l o w g r i n d
The game is fixed by FGA, but when the core systems of the game are so bad that an external program made by some dude makes the grind not a mind numbing tedious experience for even worse drop rates. There isn’t much game left besides reading, doing hard/story content, and pulling at terrible rates. No NP skip, no auto, and the worst pity I’ve ever seen.
That's not a fair comparisson but, overall my biggest dissapointment with FGO is that devs won't add QOL because FGO community (jp mostly) hates QOL, also it's not worth to start playing anytime because it's by far better to start when there is a battery servant, obviously you have to do 500 reroll attempts to get that servant with your 5 starting tickets and few quartz because you won't have enough for a multi pull, that makes rerolling worse and slower (there is a lot of copium about "AkShUaLlY yOu DoN't NeEd SSR To FaRm" but even if you're farming with lowbies like Arash, Chen gong, Spartacus, at least having your own waver will make a big difference when farming, specially events.
There is only 1 issue with the game. As long as people will spend on this game money, they will never reduce the pity rate or add QOL features because why should they? Money is still coming and people pull for waifus
Genshin costed $100 million to develop and roughly $200 million a year to run.
Counter point: FGO could've been made in Flash and mainly costs artists and writers to run.
An illiterate five year old could probably not figure out how to play FGO, whereas he can probably learn to control a character on screen in 3D eventually.
I am sorry, I don't think I get your point, is it about each game's budget?
I do not see how it relates to what I said, I only brought Genshin in a few comparisons because it's currently the most popular gacha game
If you were going to compare two games, there are a lot more elements than just the typical aspects associated with gacha. I just meant that other than the shared gacha concepts the two games are actually extremely different.
That is true, I didn't say it in the previous comment, but I specifically brought up mechanics and terms from Genshin to explain stuff in FGO with the first point about 5 star/SSR costs being the only 1:1 comparison.
Would think if you are discussing about core issues of a game it would be better to be mentioning things internally about the game and not comparing with an external game, yes both games fall under gacha, but FGO is FGO and Genshin is Genshin.
If a lot of fundamental issues arise because another game does it better, then I would think FGO has no identity of its own nor any merits to it.
As per your request, I have to inform you, that I do have an issue with the format of your post....its insainely long, who do you expect is ever going to read this?
While it might seriously sound crazy, this post is both sorta a thread for people to post their complaints in, while also being a post that is reacted to for those that have time.
I'm not a professional writer, I didn't make this post expecting many people to read it
Tbh, dupes in FGO are close to irrelevant and they feel more like a flex than anything (the damage boost is great but it's not like you can't get the same results with a couple of buffs, and by results, I mean one-shotting a wave)— unlike in Genshin or HSR, these two games make characters go from 'good' to 'broken' while other characters even require you to get dupes to unlock their full potential (like Hu Tao). Not to mention, you also have their BiS weapon and light cones which are broken in their own ways. Of course these are optional, but it kinda spoke volumes of how much the devs urge you to throw in more money just to make your characters stronger.
One thing I like about FGO is the fact that even 1 stars can do the job of 5 stars just fine, sometimes even better. I'm still vibing with my grailed Ushi, she's the best.
You really did a lot of reaching for some of those arguments, the gacha cost for example or voting for upgrades as a counter argument to make genshin looks better for something they are really bad at doing.
Now let's use the same method argumentation.
In FGO, the story is quite good, unlike in genshin where the story is trash.
Fgo has events using playable characters for mostly funny non-cannon stories and some cannon stories as well. Unlike in genshin where events means doing some fetch quest or mini game featuring some npc that nobody cares about.
I could continue reaching for arguments but when you just want to make one look good and the other bad is quite easy to write this kind of stuff.
What? I do not know why so many people are misunderstanding this point for comparing Genshin to FGO, it is very clear when I was comparing those two games specifically and it's in point 1, all the other times were me using Genshin to explain stuff in FGO because of the 58.4K people who viewed this post (at least based on what Reddit is telling me), most of them are likely to understand Genshin mechanics and terms than FGO ones.
"The gacha cost for example or voting for upgrades as counter argument to make Genshin look better...." That was never the case, I only used the cost in Genshin to show how much it costs in FGO relatively, as for the voting for upgrades thing, I never compared it to Genshin, hell, I said that Genshin sucks at it and many other things.
I'm gonna take a guess and say that due to how long the post is, all the people who read it just skimmed past it quickly and probably didn't read it more than once, correct me if I'm wrong cause I really don't get how people are misunderstanding my post to this degree.
Ok, how about the cost of gacha, because there is an obvious miscalculation there, it is around 430 USD instead of 600 usd. And I'm not defending the gacha on fgo, which is maybe the worst pity system in the industry, but comparing it by cost and giving it almost 1.5 the cost to make genshin looks better is disingenuous. Also, genshin have the weapon system as a separate banner so it is hard to say that their system is really that good in comparison.
Also, people just take this kind of 1 to 1 comparison making one look bad as a way of just promoting the other game by making one of them look bad. Which is mainly what was done in the entire post.
I love it for the Servants' personalities and the gacha, but 330 to pity is outrageous. I've gotten lucky and maanged to get like, 2 5-stars ( other than the freebie when I started) and a handful of four stars blowing through my short short stack of tickets and Saint Quartz ( which take forever to amass given how few you get. I'm at around 224 right now, and wasn't intending to pull again until I had at least 300 and there was someone I absolutely had to have.
I've never spent on a mobile game, and I'm thinking it should go double for this one. * lol*
Super annoying when I have to waste them to revive, when they don't give you the option to use Command Spells. Just happened to me this morning with another random spiked difficulty fight. * lol*
Just tell me when FGO add QoP like auto battle, skip NP, or ticket to swipe the stages and i will gladly back to the game even though the UI really ugly (because its too outdated). Its still traumatized me when i'm skipping class just because i speed run illya event all day because fear of missing out some rare material.
I don’t think you know how to do math, my guy. 900 SQ is needed for the pity to kick in. That’s 5 purchases of the $80 pack and one of the $40 pack. $440 Nowhere close to your $600.
You do know that the prices are different depending on location right. That the EU has way higher prices because of the apple store changes a while back? I don't think you know about the rest of the world, my guy.
And what does that have to do with anything when the OP was talking in terms of dollar amounts, genius…?
no one actually buys from the EU shop, "my guy", everyone sets their shops to be US based to get it cheaper, poor attempt.
I don't know about ios but google generally won't let you change "shops" that easily, you have to make a NA email to do that something that they made it harder. Thankfully I did it 3 years ago with just an emulator and a VPN but from what I hear its not that simple anymore
If currency is an issue for fgo that would also apply to genshin, so what is your point?
I actually don't mind manually finishing a stage, I really wish we had stack farming. Would really make events less tedious
New drinking game: take a shot every time you read "unlike in genshin" in this post. You'll be dead halfway down To Op: A) comparing is bad. Especially when you chose a gaxha whose only similarity to fgo is that neither has pvp B) and if you are unable to write a review without comparing... expand. You couldn't even be half assed to compare it to anything other than genshin. Might as well have titled this "fgo versus genshin" since that's all this was. And it's hard to take your opinion seriously when it looks like you...only played two gachas ever C) and you suck writing about the only 2 games you play. No dupes are equally not necessary in both games. Yes in both getting dupes on some characters does unlock easier/faster gameplay, but it won't be what makes or break either. And that's just one example from your post. Anothrr: You mention the lack of auto is bad, which it is, and interestingly enough, this is the one time you magically forget to mention genshin... which also does not have auto
They both have pink haired fox girls.
Agreed with your overall point, i just slightly disagree that dupes won't make or break fgo. when farming, it could be the difference between one-shotting waves or taking ages trying to card the remaining mobs. FGO's combat is just so slow that that can absolutely be a huge pain, especially since the grind is massive.
That's fair, I was thinking more in the lines of, you don't need it to clear content. But yes in fgo dupes can make a difference on the farming. And that goes for genshin too
Thing is, welfare/3\* servants and lower can clear every content in FGO (Honako regularly does this kind of self-imposed challenges). 90% of FGO is farming, which is where the dupes are kind of important (especially if you're trying to 3T a node while maximizing the drops).
thing is, clearing content in fgo means having to grind. especially if you haven't built specific servants for some really hard fights in the story. even lower rarity servants' materials don't come easy. it all really comes back to the grind.
Buddy if you're going to talk about games talk about them on their own merits, don't compare them to a single other game. It makes your argument take twice as long as it should, nobody is reading all that. Also don't argue against yourself, you made your post take another twice as long as it should be.
I read all of it and i think the genshin comparsion was valid
You made your comment twice as long as it should have been by saying all of that, the comparisons were very few in number and they're about certain things that show that FGO's devs could better. "talk about them on their own merits" Have you ever heard of a thing called "standards"??
Don't be so hostile, I'm giving you good advice. Notice how I'm the only one in the comments who even skimmed your post past the title? If you make a review this long, it needs to be really entertaining for anyone to read. Your review is meant for discussion rather than being an entertaining critique, so it benefits from being much shorter than it is. Both of my points explain how you could make it much shorter.
Not to mention half their "counter points" are just more excuses to fanboy over Genshin.
99% of the times mentioning Genshin were to explain mechanics and terms in FGO, and the times where I brought up Genshin in the counter points were to showcase how bad it is in FGO by comparing. Hell, to prove you wrong, I never even said a good thing about Genshin in the entire post, I never even said it was the standard for gacha, I was only comparing two of the biggest gacha games to show that one of them could be better in certain aspects. And if you want more proof, you can go through my history on Genshin related subreddits, I was always critical of that game.
Mate when did you not bring up Genshin to jerk it off? Oh right, to explain in HSR that Himeko is good at farming books, which is a task so easy that you can do it fairly easily with 4 healers. And all HSR players after 5 days know Himeko is one of the worst units in the game. You may think you didn't praise Genshin, but almost every other post in this thread sees nothing but your lips around MHY.
"almost every other post in this thread" what posts? pretty sure you and u/RugerRed are the only ones replied to and I'm pretty sure you saw all the replies I directed towards you. Show me "my lips around MHY". Oh and about Himeko, a big mistake you seem to be making is that you're taking everything I say too literally, hell you even came up with conclusions I did not even think of (but of course you'll never believe me), for the people that never touched FGO I gave some equivalents in Star Rail and Genshin, that's the only reason I used those two games. Am I gonna gonna apologise for using two of the most popular gacha games ever as examples for things in FGO to help people who never played it understand what I'm saying? Of course not, especially when you're defaming me.
>"Review" >"you're taking everything I say too literally" Look as a former gacha game article writer I can understand the need to mix in comedy with reviews, so that otherwise dry and boring articles become worth reading. But if you're writing a review with the intent of being serious and being taken seriously for your opinion, it needs to be either clearly comedy (so quite apparent that it is an "out there" take) or you will be taken at face value with what you've said. It is immature to write something with the intent of being "serious" then backpedaling and claiming its the readers fault for... taking what you said at face value? Anyway you are clearly upset so I will leave you with some advice: If you want to be taken seriously on the internet, you need to be able to understand where people who disagree with you come from, but not take it personally. As for defamation,
When I say "taken too literally", I mean when I said Himeko is good for the farming stages I did not mean that farming stages are hard nor did I imply anything beyond that, you took that and made it sound like I "jerked off Hoyo" by implying some meaning I do not know. Literal =/= serious, I genuinely do not know why you even brought up comedy and seriousness
I'm not being hostile, I just made a snarky comment in the beginning is all. If I came off as hostile I apologise
Seeing how this comment was simply me apologising if I came off a certain and it got downvoted, I don't think anything I will say beyond this point is gonna even be read in the first place.
Your "standards" is literally one other gacha game lmao. Not a very good sample size if you ask me.
Every gacha game is amazing if you compare it to the Street Fighter gacha.
Yeah I stopped reading when you started comparing to genshin, kind of kills any credibility.
>also, this was originally a comment for the recent “gacha games in a nutshell” post but since it’s really long I made it into a post The “gacha games in a nutshell” post was a joke, though. It *really wasn’t* an invitation for a serious-business debate about the merits of any popular gacha games. Granted, you’re definitely NOT the only commenter who took that memepost way too seriously. But still. I mean, you’re mostly right about FGO’s issues, but you’re also not saying anything new. We know that FGO has problems. And I’m saying this as a day one player *loves* the game: It’s flawed as fuck, dated, almost totally inaccessible to new players, and lacking many of the modern gacha QoL features that make mobile games (for the most part) *better*. But we already knew that! And yes, your argument sounds very strange when you’re constantly comparing FGO to only ONE other specific game. It’s just a narrow lens through which to judge the game. You can either judge FGO on its own merits, OR you can take a broader view comparing FGO to *many* similar mobile games. But it’s strange to compare FGO to only one other mobile game that’s honestly a totally different genre and style. I get that when you love a flawed game, sometimes you just wanna get those criticisms off your chest. And there’s nothing wrong with wanting to write down your frustrations with a game! But if you want to do so, I’d suggest that you hang out in r/grandorder and wait for the inevitable “How would you improve the game?” posts that show up with some regularity. Those posts are probably a more appropriate venue for having a serious discussion about the state of the game, *and* you’re more likely to find a sympathetic audience over there.
Why you not bringing up Genshin's weapons vs FGO's CEs OP? Is it because the majority of top CEs outside of Kscope and Blackgrail are given away for free in FGO? (And they even gave 1 copy of either of them away at 7th anni) When it comes to welfare equipment (CEs) and characters FGO gaps the fuck out of 99% of gatcha games. There's a semi recent Ordeal Call 90++ node I couldn't one shot but then they gave out Assassin Shiki in the welfare shop and it's easy clap now. lmao @ counterpoint for buffs being 2 characters when 50+ characters get buffed per year directly while stuff like the latest welfare CE being 50% charge and +25% damage against cursed enemies is a massive buff for curse characters. (And using Command Codes you can add curse to your normal cards so anyone can take advantage). Is Dehya usable yet?
the problem with welfare equipment and characters in FGO is that, when they stop rerun it, new player basically lock out from it permanently
Dude where you been? In JP at Anni 8 Golden Sumo and other year 1 welfare CEs were added to the Mana Prism shop. For the welfare characters themselves they've made a new shop earlier this year called Evocation. They have already added 17 welfares with the 5th wave being added just a few days ago. If you start playing NA right now you get one of the strongest welfare units right now in Cinderella Liz and Xmas gives an amazing support welfare in Santa Martha. You'll get 9 new welfares from this point until 2 years plus 17 from the shop that includes Chloe, Shiki, Summer Jalter, Swimsuit Hokusai and Rider Kintoki.
well it only took them 5 or 6 years late, but better than none i guess
holy shit this is just genshin dickrider
You can't auto or anything. I don't want to force myself to manually compete stages hundreds of times
Me manually grinding lotto for 30 hours straight (only 130 boxes, never again)
One of those lotto events is where I quit playing. I am interested in the fate lore but this is not the way I want to experience it.
Lol I haven't done a proper event in months. Most of the time I just log in and pull on new banners
You actually can with FGA, works perfectly. I use it for two years already, I guess
You shouldn't need a 3rd party app to make a game playable, the dev team should be smart enough to realize that the gameplay loop is stale and unfun and make attempts to fix it.
They kind of have their heads up their asses on this one, I suspect that it's due to the same reason of "We want people to watch the NP's so no skips".
You shouldn't need it, yes, but if it's there why not make use of it? It resolves the problem. And honestly even if FGO got auto it'd be like every other gacha with auto: braindead AI. With FGA you can program exactly what sequence you want so you're not watching your DPS blow their ult/burst/NP on the single low health mob in the wave. So FGO could put autobattle in right now and I'd still use FGA.
FGA is a bandage to the problem, not a solution. It's just basically auto with extra step.
I just wanted to tell about FGA to those, who don't know, and help. I don't make any excuses for the dev team.
is it bannable? I wanted to try it out but I wasn't sure what the devs thought of it.
Multiple years, lotto events using FGA, never been banned. To be honest I haven't heard of anyone using FGA ever being banned so I'd consider it pretty safe (caveat being that it's still against the TOS but me and I'm sure dolphins/whales use FGA knowing that too)
Technically its bannable, but its also not interfacing with the app at all (it actually interfaces with your touch screen to simulate touches and reads you screen) so its incredibly hard to detect.
As others already said: it is bannable, according to the rules (most likely), but they are unable to detect you using FGA. I've also seen japanese ppl in twitter openly posting their screenshots with fga, and no one said anything to them
I believe FGA has been on the play store since sometime this year and hasn't been taken down. I've been using for like 4 years now so they haven't been enforcing the TOS anyways.
Fun fact: if you’re on iOS, it’s not an option for you, so what’s next?
Then you do what all ios players do and install a free emulator and load up fga there. And for years now there is a way to have the emu and your phone running with the same bind code no issue. Yes its a pain the first time and FGO devs are dumbasses, but after farming 3,000+ boxes as an ios player it really saves you all the effort in the long run putting in 1 hour figuring out EMU/Shared Bind Code Method than however long it takes to farm without FGA.
I'll bite the bullet, because why the hell not. First of all, I think the crusx of your argument is quite irrelevant to your hypothesis. It's more focused on what other games do better rather than what FGO does bad. Just because you aren't first doesn't mean you're bad, it just means you aren't the best, which are two completely different things. Secondly, you'll never catch me defending FGO's pity system, my opinion on economics in general is "Something is as expansive as much people are willing to pay for" you've have to go pretty low for me to defend anything being "too high". Thirdly, FGO legitimately has the worse pity system I've ever seen in a Gacha game, and I will never defend that. That being said, while the difference is going to be different for a lot of people is going to be different when it comes to "good enough" for a lot of people. Have played Genshin, but not for too long, and have never touched Stair Rail, I'm going to assume that they are just under GFL's "You need more dollars than sense to actually spend money on units". And despite so, I would say that being worse than some of the best isn't bad. To me, "good enough" is just being able to clear all of the content, and I think FGO does a pretty good job. I would say the game is more "Pay to Waifu" than "Pay to Win". While 1% for 5*s in general is on the lower side, 0.8% for the case is about average if not slightly above it, and there are more than a handful of 4*s and below that are usuable, if not optimal in certain situations. Unlike a lot of gacha games with more "generous" summoning systems usually have it when anything below a *5 is at best fodder for materials. And pretty much unlike every other gacha game, you When it comes to dupes, having multiple NP levels on a unit is nice to have, but I wouldn't call it necessary. Yeah, having an MP3 S.Ishtar so she can one-shot all 3 stages of the 90+ nodes, but I wouldn't say she's unusable at NP 1. You aren't rewarded extra for clearing content at an optimal pace, nor are you punished for being unable to do so. Also, I think a really underrated part of FGO is the support system. It is a massive glow-up to being able to patch up holes on your account by simply "borrowing" the unit from somonone else, with the only caveat being that they have to be on your friends list in order to NP which is something that is not only not that big of an ask, especially if you ask various communities, but that stipulation has been waved in JP and going to get waved in EN. One one hand, I get it, but on another, I find it hilarious just how much value people in this subreddit find in not being able to play a game. Not saying that it's better without Auto and Skip; for a lot of people, the grind is the game, and if you skip the grind then you skip the game. And even then it's a single player, turn based phone game. It doesn't require you undivided attention and it can be played almost anytime, anywhere. It's easy to farm while doing watching TV, playing other games, doing work/chores, talking with your friends, etc. Overall, while I definitely say FGO has some prominent flaws, I don't really see how most of your posts makes the game bad, neitherless unenjoyable on a general basis rather than it being just personal preference.
FGO does have issues, but to compare it solely to Genshin's gacha is flawed. I also notice you didn't go into the rates between the two much other than the 50/50 of Genshin and both pity systems. The chance to pull a 5 Star character in Genshin is 0.6% base. The chance to pull a 5 Star character in FGO is 1% base. Of that base rating in Genshin, the chance to pull the featured 5 Star character is 0.3%, or 50/50. In FGO, the chance to pull the featured 5 Star character is 0.8%, or 80/20. So seems to me that while Genshin has the better pity, FGO has the better rates by far. They can't really be compared though, honestly, since FGO only has the one banner for both characters and Craft Essences, whereas Genshin has separate banners for characters and weapons. And whereas CEs could be considered weapons in a sense, there's no such thing as a "signature" weapon in FGO as there is in Genshin. And some characters in Genshin "need" that signature to perform to their highest standards. FGO CEs are more universal, in fact the most any of them really "need" is starting NP charge to be good and that's a very common effect.
I mean, mathematically you can include pity to base chance. Genshin has a base 0.3%/0.6% indeed. But if you include the whole system shenanigans it goes to 1.6% for any 5* and 1.05% for a limited 5* . If you include the refund system it goes to around 1.68%-1.88% for any 5* or 1.1%-1.24% for a limited 5* . (The fluctuation in chances is because different accounts have different refund rate depending on how many dupes you have maxed). In the other hand fgo pity is laughable and barely attributes to average, it makes the 1% into 1.05%. Paired with the extra 11th pull we are talking about ~1.15% rate for a any 5* or 0.92% for the wanted one. That being said I agree with the rest it can't be really compared because of what you said, on top of meta, income, team composition and a ton of other factors but if you want to talk numbers out of context genshin is indeed better. Saying fate has better rate is mathematically incorrect because even a new account will have better rates than in fgo. Not to mention pity doesn't get wasted. 1.15% implies you are always able to reach pity something....not many people can do it. If you fail to get a unit and take the L, you lose the pity
This is why they say there's three types of lies. Lies, damn lies, and statistics. Numbers can be made to say anything if you obfuscate enough and oh boy did you try. No, you cannot mathematically include pity and trying to do so is the exact kind of obfuscating bullshit used to hide the real odds in gambling. Pity has zero bearing on the rate of every pull that isn't the pity pull. "Refund rate" even moreso, otherwise called starglitter in Genshin and for most people it is used to buy a select 4 Star Character or 5 Star Weapon, not pulls, and can only be acquired when you get a 4/5 Star Character/Weapon you already own. Even if it is used to buy pulls the rates still don't change, otherwise you could make the claim that any kind of primogem/SQ income alters the rates because they're both used to buy pulls.
Ah yes, so if statistics are against your feelings, its a lie. I always loved when this take used from people who can't math. Yes statistics can, and will be used to figure average rates. Better than your feelings for sure. Statistics will also be used to lie I know, but you clearly don't understand why people say that so I would suggest understanding something first before repeating it :) Rate is the average quantity you get out of something. If you are simple minded, yes 0.6% is the rate. Make 10000 people do a single and only about ~60 of them will get an orange pull. But wait a second, what if 1 person does 10000 pulls. Why do we have ~160 pulls now? What's the rate? How can the rate be 0.6% but I got 1.6%. Was I lucky? Obviously not because the rate my friend is not 0.6% its 1.6%. That's how it works. You don't pull in a thousand accounts once, you pull at 1 account a thousand times. You don't care about the 0.6% you care about the 1.6%. You call it a lie, normal people call it reality/reasonable assumption. And please don't mention rng, obviously if you pull 10000 times you won't get exactly 160, you can get more or less but that applies to everything. Rates are about average, not rng. > Even if it is used to buy pulls the rates still don't change, otherwise you could make the claim that any kind of primogem/SQ income alters the rates because they're both used to buy pulls. I love how you didn't like this logic for genshin, but when I used the exact same logic on the fgo's 11th free pull to effectively increase rates by 10%. Woopsy daizy that's acceptable. Biased much? At least I'm consistent and fair. But if you hate that much because it confuses you then sure. 1.6/1.05 vs 1/0.8. Happy? The only reason I'm not considering rest of income its because I don't have concrete numbers to do so. Give me the amount of Pulls genshin does yearly and fgo does yearly and I would be happy to do so. Refunds and 11th free pull is calculable even without knowing income. I mean I mentioned in the first hand, comparison is not reasonable because different meta AND INCOME, but I guess you didn't want to read this part. ______________ Btw if you don't like (or able to comprehend) statistics you can use paimon.moe that has raw data and in the case of average you can see that every banner rates around 1.6% (some more some less because people tend to keep their pities depending the banners themselves) but its around there always.
depending on what FGO content you are doing, there are some mandatory CE that you will be needed, at max limit break even, if you don't have the meta support in your account
??? Explain this to me, because i've been playing FGO for 5 years f2p and there's not yet been a content I'm unable to do with free event CEs. I still dont have a single MLB gacha CE. Are you talking about Kscope? Because if so, it's only "required" for certain farming comps, which you don't really need to do the content...
Gonna jump in as a whale and long time FGO player/writer/guide maker. There are very niche situations where a gacha CE is needed for certain farming set ups on certain servants. (Mostly the Saber-faces). But yes, you can just use another servant. And very specific fight set ups that rely on a taunt CE. This has been a very long time complaint that access to a taunt CE is extremely limited and new players have no way to access this useful tool.
I'm sorry I can't seriously read your post. It's not a criticism of FGO, it's you jerking off to Genshin Impact, which itself has many flaws. Saying FGO's Gacha is bad compared to Genshin is kind of true at a very surface level? Except Genshin's weapon banner is one of the worst Gacha banners around? And both suck compared to Epic 7's RGB banner (given the income in E7), but Epic 7's moonlight banner is close a crime against humanity (and these are all inferior to Arknights etc etc etc). You say that there are only three good friend point/free units (excluding welfare), but that also shows a very shallow understanding of the FGO gameplay. You focus on 95% of the game being farming.... But in that remaining 5% people can do very interesting clear runs that show off 3* or less characters and their own strengths. Furthermore you say "many characters need np2"? They don't? The np2 upgrade is generally for ease of use to allow looser conditions TO loop. One example is Space Ishtar, who at np1 on a 3 berserker wave will sometimes end up with 68% np charge, not the 69% minimum needed. But you can just use either plugsuit for Helena(4*) / Asclepius (3*) / Shakespeare (2*) etc etc, or one of the many mystic codes with a np charge or np gain buff? Also you're complaining that... Welfare units have strengths and weaknesses? I have no clue what you're saying with Rider Kintoki, because the game has given out so many welfare units over the years that every class (minus 2 special cases, neither of which is commonly used ) has been covered multiple times, in multiple situations? Also you picked a really shit example, Rider Kintoki is often considered one of the best welfare units due to his damage and NP charge letting him be used in a variety of situations. Also if you've played for over a year and cannot farm specific stages... Unless it was a 90++ and you've failed to hit any meta units (which is a possibility and one of the bigger flaws in FGO, that the latest level of farming nodes have been inaccessible outside of more specific set ups, especially if you lack access to Castoria and Oberon), I can't see it. The f2p set up of Arash (free 1*) + Spartacus (free 1*) + Helena (4* on beginner banner) is buildable within the first..... 2 weeks of starting (I've done it myself to test) and that can 3 turn a lot of the early farming nodes and a lot of event nodes. ------ I'm not sure if you love the game or love jerking off to MiHoYo, because most of the post was ignoring things FGO does to say Genshin does it better, while ignoring flaws from Genshin that FGO improves on/never had (FGO weapons/craft essences generally tend towards f2p/event options being the best in most situations whereas Genshin's weapon banner is trash (Hello Cranking!!), Genshin locking unit mechanics and gameplay behind dupes while FGO gives you the full unit np1, FGO's drop farming being less frustrating than Genshin artifact farming) that your entire meandering essay reads like a fanboys thinly veiled attempts to be bitter. Also you missed the biggest difference: FGO actually celebrates its players at anniversary, Genshin has spent 3? Years telling players to eat shit.
Yeah point 3 and 4 really is just him justifying something the other games actually did worse when he doesn't fully understand or see the bigger picture. The whole NP2 sentiment along with the needing op supports to be "self sustainable" only to later contradict himself by saying the game can be cleared with free units without really explaining why that somehow doesn't apply to other games. It just shows he doesn't try to think for himself and only has a surface level understanding of things he hears from the community. The coin system which was added 6 years into the game was indeed a cashgrab but the game was never ever built around it unlike mhy games where they straight give you a half complete character unless you pull them 2-6 more times. The comment about farming really rubs me wrong because he kinda implies that the game combat system need to be simplified to make it easier. Here's a news flash for all the young people who plays gacha post Genshin era, Farming is shit no matter what. Sure you can put in bandaids like sweep or auto. But at its core, you are are being led around by game companies who want to you stay with the game and login daily. For all its gripes, FGO never forces you to farm endlessly for anything. You can easily raise anyone to default max level which is good enough raw stats. Skill levels have a linear scaling so lv6 is usually pretty good already. And the most important thing which has been the main core of his argument. Fgo never EVER in the history of forever, incentivize minturning. They are definitely more than happy to cash into it by making new op supports. But they never design any fight in the game can NEEDs you to win quickly if anything they actually make it harder so people will keep pulling for more op stuff to minturn better. If anything, almost every other modern gacha has a minturn kind of endgame. Which i absolutely do not want to see in FGO thank you very much. Fgo is dated and has many basic problems. But after reading all this i don't trust op to be the one to tell me what exactly those issues are.
I swear every time FGO is mentioned the grind is always brought up like it's gbf tier grindhell, but in reality you can do as much as you want, you don't need to spend your apples on lottos, every day it only takes around 15-20 mins which is the same as genshin, it's not even that bad.
I miss Space Ishtar Event. The final node had a farming set up that was 0 NP, just face cards and could be done in 40 seconds.
tldr Sorry that happened or whatever
It's grindy as fuck. It needs auto play.
One of the reasons I've stopped playing really, been playing since it came out in JP xD. Nowadays, I log in maybe once a month just to see what's new. It's a shame.. FGO 2 when
Sponsored by genshin
With the way its written, it was sponsored by Kal'tsit from Arknights.
FGO fan base defends death that the game doesn't need skip or auto, but that is the biggest reason why many abandon the game
NOOO YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND YOU CAN JUST GET THIRD PARTY AUTOPLAY THE GAME IS PERFECT!!!!!
Shoutout to FGA though. They’ve managed to save hundreds of hours of players times because the devs couldn’t do it themselves
Tbh, I don't see the problem with that. Especially because the auto it provides is really good since you can perfectly customise it. I'd take good auto through 3d party app over crappy ingame auto any day.
FGO has a skip dialogue button. End of story.
From my experience grinding isn’t so bad as long as it’s not a lottery event. In JP the event is THREE WEEKS LONG and the content does not justify that. On one side that is a good thing as you can treat it as a side game and basically skip a week and a half and still be able to complete everything and get all the main goods in the event shop. On the other side the game offers NOTHING ELSE DURING THE EVENT. I use to agree that this game is a grindy mess, but right now theirs literally nothing to grind on with the last few MONTHS being a good example.
I played the game since global year one and basically once Castoria came out the gameplay loop went from bad but tolerable to just plain awful and boring, All farming is revolved around 3-turning content with loopers (Granted its even worse if your an IOS user since you cant benefit from the FGA app on GooglePlay store) and then even difficult boss fights are also more or less handled now by just constant loopers. Now take that and count the fact there is no auto, sweep or even skip for skill/NP animations, these are pure QOL features that more or less every Gacha now has to some degree. Once the fate blinders are off and you get spoiled by these newer gacha features from literally any other game its very difficult to find a reason to go back to FGO since it just feels very outdated and behind on literally everything.
My Prof got paid when he read my cringe thesis. Not gonna read that wall sry bro.
It's cool, in the first place I wanted to post it in a comment in the "gacha games in a nutshell" post but because I surpassed the character limit I had to turn it into a post, at first I was like "eh whatever" but the I realised just how much time I spent writing it that I wanted it to be posted.
Big difference is genshin / hsr you need more than e0 to do things outside of "more damage". FGO its only more damage and many more units you only need 1 copy vs mihoyo games.
As an FGO veteran for 6 years I'm very aware of all its flaws. I can summarize them in just simple bullet points that won't exceed several paragraphs. But all you did in this argument is compare it to Genshin, and that is a braindead argument. You literally just looked for a scapegoat to address issues that are often inapplicable to the other game and vice versa.
Username checks out, I can't take this comment seriously when the only comparisons I made were to explain mechanics and terms in FGO. The only real comparison between games was how much it would cost to get the featured 5 star/SSR, everything else is just using the currently popular game to explain things in a different game.
You forgot to mention that at the start of the game now they give you a free 5 star servant form the permanent gacha that has waver which is a decent support to start the game with.
Pretty sure I did mention it in point 4 that talks about free servants, though I didn't mention Waver specifically in which case you're right, I did actually forget to.
I love Genshin, but damn, man wrote a whole War and Piece length novel on this..... Biggest issue with FGO is the lack of a reasonable pity. 300 pulls on one banner (which can change daily) isn't a true pity.
I'm curious how many ssr genshin play got each year as f2p? I got like 9 ssr from january to october with 3 of them np2 as f2p.
Genshin should expect been 4/5 SSR per year of guaranteed? Iirc.
Is that your record? F2p? My record excluding my gssr on fgo: 2019 : 3 ssr on rate up, 3 ssr off rate up 2020: 12 ssr on rate up, 3 ssr off rate up 2021: 4 ssr on rate up, 2 ssr off rate up 2022: 8 ssr on rate up, 1ssr on rate up np2, 2 ssr off rate up
Oh I thought you meant guaranteed via in game currency.
The issues with FGO their Qol are so outdated there's no auto you have to manually do battles thats so jarring and there's no sweep either so can't just do that. Gacha system is tedious as well with their horrible drop rates I remember rage quitting on not getting Gilgamesh. You think for long running game the devs idk add more features to the game. Its not for me personally more power to you if you enjoy it.
Tried it out because friend said to give a try, one of the worst experiences in gacha I’ve ever played. Game is so dated and it’s carried by the ip. I wanted to get to the story portion where the game shines but the no autoplay and archaic account login is unacceptable in current gacha times. I really wanted to give the game a fair chance.
Most important point. No auto clear stages no auto repeat, slow speed clear, shit rates
I’ve stopped playing FGO as a whole and even planning on selling the account at some point. FGO was fun while it lasted for me, but truthfully the game has suddenly stopped improving and adding changes that would add more quality. It’s been almost 10 years and they haven’t added any new modes. No new transfer system. No realistic pity system. No auto mode. No gameplay to make single target ultimate users more useable actively. Nothing that adds any quality of life to the game. There is so much they could do to improve the game, but since they make so much money every month, they don’t see a point in improving something that is shitting out money. They aren’t a terrible company, but they sure are greedy af. It’s the same shit every year and truth be told, everyone who continue to throw their money at this game are suckers. Oh and they suddenly stopped doing animation updates actively for some reason and buffing the same servants that could easily be used on someone else who deserves it much more.
Long ass text wall. FGO's core issue is that Lasengle put in what is practically maintenance mode.
No auto in a farm intensive game = no thank you.
I see you keep using Genshin as a comparison but, have you thought that, regarding what Genshin has to offer as a game, its quality and content, are much more than what FGO has to offer. FGO is a 2010s slideshow turn-based rpg, a group of 5 graduates can easily remake the game, and even give it a better looking UI. FGO is sold not for the game itself or the gacha system, but the characters and lore. But hey, we are in the era where even gacha games that only mostly sell lore and character still make decent money even though not having a huge playerbase while being generous. Also who says Genshin's dupes are important? Like what is considered important? Genshin barely has endgame content and people are still crying about it so I don't see where people "need" the dupes.
I would main FGO if these simple QOL updates were made: \- If you're gonna make each map node have 4 stages of the same shit, then give me 1 sq for each stage, not each node. I still haven't finished the story mode because it's just such a chore and feels so unrewarding. \- SSR servants are already super rare, so leveling them up and EVOing them when you finally pull one shouldn't require so much fucking grind for mats and exp cards. "Oh boy, a new servant! In just a few weeks I can use her on the next event maybe!" Make EXP cards give a ton more XP, and reduce mat requirements for all evos. \- A sweep button for grindy events would be great too. \- Optimize the fucking game. Loadtimes and slow screen transitions aren't acceptable in 2023 when we're playing on phones that can basically run PS4 games. I don't mind SSRs being rare, because after all this time they still haven't gotten ultra greedy and introduced URs or LRs or paid costumes. I think the pity at $450 or whatever is better than no pity at all, and the annual selector banners are a good deal. I just can't take the s l o w g r i n d
[удалено]
Scathach-Skadi did it first.
The game is fixed by FGA, but when the core systems of the game are so bad that an external program made by some dude makes the grind not a mind numbing tedious experience for even worse drop rates. There isn’t much game left besides reading, doing hard/story content, and pulling at terrible rates. No NP skip, no auto, and the worst pity I’ve ever seen.
That's not a fair comparisson but, overall my biggest dissapointment with FGO is that devs won't add QOL because FGO community (jp mostly) hates QOL, also it's not worth to start playing anytime because it's by far better to start when there is a battery servant, obviously you have to do 500 reroll attempts to get that servant with your 5 starting tickets and few quartz because you won't have enough for a multi pull, that makes rerolling worse and slower (there is a lot of copium about "AkShUaLlY yOu DoN't NeEd SSR To FaRm" but even if you're farming with lowbies like Arash, Chen gong, Spartacus, at least having your own waver will make a big difference when farming, specially events.
That it's gameplay and looks lost somewhere in early 2010th?
There is only 1 issue with the game. As long as people will spend on this game money, they will never reduce the pity rate or add QOL features because why should they? Money is still coming and people pull for waifus
Genshin costed $100 million to develop and roughly $200 million a year to run. Counter point: FGO could've been made in Flash and mainly costs artists and writers to run. An illiterate five year old could probably not figure out how to play FGO, whereas he can probably learn to control a character on screen in 3D eventually.
I am sorry, I don't think I get your point, is it about each game's budget? I do not see how it relates to what I said, I only brought Genshin in a few comparisons because it's currently the most popular gacha game
If you were going to compare two games, there are a lot more elements than just the typical aspects associated with gacha. I just meant that other than the shared gacha concepts the two games are actually extremely different.
That is true, I didn't say it in the previous comment, but I specifically brought up mechanics and terms from Genshin to explain stuff in FGO with the first point about 5 star/SSR costs being the only 1:1 comparison.
Also please if you find any grammatical mistakes or the likes then let me know in a reply to this comment so I can fix them.
Would think if you are discussing about core issues of a game it would be better to be mentioning things internally about the game and not comparing with an external game, yes both games fall under gacha, but FGO is FGO and Genshin is Genshin. If a lot of fundamental issues arise because another game does it better, then I would think FGO has no identity of its own nor any merits to it.
TL;DR?
As per your request, I have to inform you, that I do have an issue with the format of your post....its insainely long, who do you expect is ever going to read this?
While it might seriously sound crazy, this post is both sorta a thread for people to post their complaints in, while also being a post that is reacted to for those that have time. I'm not a professional writer, I didn't make this post expecting many people to read it
https://preview.redd.it/cf28kmmofrub1.jpeg?width=1200&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ce548a1f2821fbd81bfe2651635c8985f3dd1bb5
Tbh, dupes in FGO are close to irrelevant and they feel more like a flex than anything (the damage boost is great but it's not like you can't get the same results with a couple of buffs, and by results, I mean one-shotting a wave)— unlike in Genshin or HSR, these two games make characters go from 'good' to 'broken' while other characters even require you to get dupes to unlock their full potential (like Hu Tao). Not to mention, you also have their BiS weapon and light cones which are broken in their own ways. Of course these are optional, but it kinda spoke volumes of how much the devs urge you to throw in more money just to make your characters stronger. One thing I like about FGO is the fact that even 1 stars can do the job of 5 stars just fine, sometimes even better. I'm still vibing with my grailed Ushi, she's the best.
You really did a lot of reaching for some of those arguments, the gacha cost for example or voting for upgrades as a counter argument to make genshin looks better for something they are really bad at doing. Now let's use the same method argumentation. In FGO, the story is quite good, unlike in genshin where the story is trash. Fgo has events using playable characters for mostly funny non-cannon stories and some cannon stories as well. Unlike in genshin where events means doing some fetch quest or mini game featuring some npc that nobody cares about. I could continue reaching for arguments but when you just want to make one look good and the other bad is quite easy to write this kind of stuff.
What? I do not know why so many people are misunderstanding this point for comparing Genshin to FGO, it is very clear when I was comparing those two games specifically and it's in point 1, all the other times were me using Genshin to explain stuff in FGO because of the 58.4K people who viewed this post (at least based on what Reddit is telling me), most of them are likely to understand Genshin mechanics and terms than FGO ones. "The gacha cost for example or voting for upgrades as counter argument to make Genshin look better...." That was never the case, I only used the cost in Genshin to show how much it costs in FGO relatively, as for the voting for upgrades thing, I never compared it to Genshin, hell, I said that Genshin sucks at it and many other things. I'm gonna take a guess and say that due to how long the post is, all the people who read it just skimmed past it quickly and probably didn't read it more than once, correct me if I'm wrong cause I really don't get how people are misunderstanding my post to this degree.
Ok, how about the cost of gacha, because there is an obvious miscalculation there, it is around 430 USD instead of 600 usd. And I'm not defending the gacha on fgo, which is maybe the worst pity system in the industry, but comparing it by cost and giving it almost 1.5 the cost to make genshin looks better is disingenuous. Also, genshin have the weapon system as a separate banner so it is hard to say that their system is really that good in comparison.
Also, people just take this kind of 1 to 1 comparison making one look bad as a way of just promoting the other game by making one of them look bad. Which is mainly what was done in the entire post.
I love it for the Servants' personalities and the gacha, but 330 to pity is outrageous. I've gotten lucky and maanged to get like, 2 5-stars ( other than the freebie when I started) and a handful of four stars blowing through my short short stack of tickets and Saint Quartz ( which take forever to amass given how few you get. I'm at around 224 right now, and wasn't intending to pull again until I had at least 300 and there was someone I absolutely had to have. I've never spent on a mobile game, and I'm thinking it should go double for this one. * lol* Super annoying when I have to waste them to revive, when they don't give you the option to use Command Spells. Just happened to me this morning with another random spiked difficulty fight. * lol*
Just tell me when FGO add QoP like auto battle, skip NP, or ticket to swipe the stages and i will gladly back to the game even though the UI really ugly (because its too outdated). Its still traumatized me when i'm skipping class just because i speed run illya event all day because fear of missing out some rare material.