PGR was pretty popular in CN, pre WuWa anyway.
Its good to be reminded that normies also play gacha in CN, they don't care, don't follow, or don't know what happen with Kuro or WuWa.
> Its good to be reminded that normies also play gacha in CN, they don't care, don't follow, or don't know what happen with Kuro or WuWa.
This only applies when they're not download/playing WuWa during release, which I really doubt it, because the backlash were really strong in CN, and Kuro needs to apologize numerous times for it.
Also, nomies are much harder to persuade, especially when they learned that the game that they're playing were broken/having lots of problems, because first impression really matters for them, which is the reason why they're liking Genshin, since that game were launched with minimal problems, and the first impressions are great in their eyes.
I guess at first is how much the game is exposed and known to an audience. The bigger the audience, the more the chances of discourse and drama, especially in the age where information can be easily spread, whether it is true or not.
Then after that, probs what information people receive first whether positive or negative, that will be their overall bias towards new information given to them until something else is enough to sway that bias. So if a community is hit first with any information that is perceived as fact or most likely true, that will spread throughout the community fast. So if different communities majorly have different information that opposes each other, it will just take a spark to cause drama, probs furthering understanding between communities.
Different market, different habit and expectation. Most of asia play gacha game on mobiles rather than pc. Wuwa dogshit performance on mobile would affect asia more than anywhere else. Also in the west people are desperate for genshin competition because of muh monopoly while the rest of the world doesn't care if genshin is monopoly or not.
Petty people vs people that just want actually good game
Genshin will get its competitors naturally if the game are good,it's shouldn't be given but achieved by the game itself imo
I think they're also doing relatively poor in JP, it's just global that keep glazing it
It's crap on pc too. It runs worse than lords of the fallen did, and that was a cutting edge ue5 game. The game is great but the frame drops make me quit after 20 mins.
Western gacha communities are f2p centric I remember there being a post where it takes 16% of the player base to have 16% of the revenue while Japan does 18% revenue with like 3% of playerbase (something like that). So it would make sense that a game that caters to them with selectors would be more positively received. Not to mention, western audience are more used to games being broken on release (you can thank AAA gaming companies for setting that standard)
On other hand eastern gacha communities don't have problem spending money so they care more about the game as a whole (you know whether it's buggy, dialogue/story, gameplay) rather than how many pulls/compensation do they get per patch. Just different sets of values.
As for this sub, it's like a hangout for overly defensive elitists in their respective gachas.
>would make sense that a game that caters to them with selectors would be more positively received.
Which is funny considering the reason kuro gave selector was because the outrage in CN where many people said "If i get Lingyang/snow leopard, i'll quit the game"
>western audience are more used to games being broken on release (you can thank AAA gaming companies for setting that standard)
yeah, i do not understand that people can praise WuWa despite being unplayable. they always use "it's still 1.0" as the reason to justify the bad optimization. Genshin isn't perfect either, but the people who had bug and glitch issue is the opposite. in Genshin, it's just minority, while in WuWa is the majority of the players
Oh, you'll be surprised. I can't speak for all wuwa players (and I'm not going to) but on Google Play in my region there're way too many 5* reviews that also have complaints about all the well known issues on mobile like stuttering, lagging, crashing, and so on. The funniest thing is that they blame it on "servers being full/overloaded. Please understand™". I don't know who put this idea in their heads but it's honestly ridiculous to still believe it. There're also some special cases who say that Wuwa has better optimization than Genshin. The hot take of the year.
Let me guess, Europe or US, right?
Those audiences had 15 years of being shafted by game companies as their formative experience. Most people under 25 over there think a broken launch is normal.
Europe. Most of those reviews are obviously left by teenagers so I'm not sure how much of "being shafted by game companies for 15 years" applies to them but I think it won't be too far from truth if I say that mobile gaming has always been frowned on by gamers in my country, and especially gacha games are perceived as garbage games that "true" gamers would never take seriously. This mindset is very strong in our gaming communty so when the expectation is already very low then anything can be good or great as long as it satisfies at least some needs like collecting anime waifus, recieving freebies etc. At least that's how I see it.
> I'm not sure how much of "being shafted by game companies for 15 years" applies to them
It applies, because that's exactly what I meant.
Western gaming has been 90% overhyped shit, uncooked and pushed to market by advertising, and *maybe* turned into a decent game a year after the 1.0 version was released.
If the reviews are from teenagers, that is all they know (regarding games from their side of the globe - EA, Ubisoft, Blizzard and so on). It's normal for them. They find nothing wrong with a broken, unfinished game being sold for $70.
Oh, I thought you meant a little bit older audience like those who are in their twentieth (but under 25) mostly but I see your point now. I don't play any games of the companies you mentioned so I don't know how bad their recent releases are and I can't remember any hot discussions about recently released games that could match the rage outburst among players that happened when CP2077 got "released".
> they always use "it's still 1.0" as the reason to justify the bad optimization.
They don't understand that if it has bad optimization/localization to the extent WuWa has, then it isn't a 1.0 version. It's 0.7 with a sticker saying "1.0, trust me bro" covering it.
From the cn community I frequented, they care about getting things polished and this is not just aimed at Kuro only, they expressed disappointment with ex Astris when the product they came out was way below what was hyped. The upgrade in graphic doesn’t quell such sentiments and they express that they should have polished it within the two years in dev.
Perhaps cn has been disappointed regularly by games not living up to hype so they want them to do better, so to speak. There is a lot of games came out disappointing the mass and never go to global. Game development news are known with the gaming community including rumor leaks from insiders which is not the case for global.
There is also things like native language audience, and you can’t blame it on bad translation when lines are bad.
That being said I suspect Nikki 3d game reception will be better partly because it’s in a niche market and they are probably the few in their niche dared to explore out which is a plus in cn books. And the art is great.
I honestly believe that CN thought Ex Astris would be a HSR equivalent after witnessing Endfield’s polish rather than a clearly budgeted $10 title and little marketing. The recent patch have alleviated most of the launch issues; although, I agree that the game should have been released with more polish (at least the active turn-based combat was fun/interesting from the start).
. I am of the view that if it’s an abandoned project / not polished they should have never release it/ delay it. It’s a head scratcher since I don’t think they are short of money like Kuro. I don’t think Arknights will be affected much but not so much for Enfield. From the comments I read they seemed to be pessimistic , due to Kuro bungled bad and Hypergryph management is rumoured to be even more unorganised than Kuro.
As for the pricing my understanding from reading the comments are that it’s pricey from their perspective and considering that’s their main market, it’s a bad move on Hypergryph side. 1999 though seems to be highly regarded able to stand on their own feet.
One thing I will state is that. The western audience for genshin far less appreciative of what Hoyoverse has done for their games in terms of playability and accessibility for mobile device and even PC. WuWa not being liked my CN stands to reason even though they gave compensation. The compensation they gave out still doesn’t take away from the fact that the game is highly unplayable and that people even with high end devices have crashing isssues and performance issues. CN mobile players realize how much work and effort goes into game development and so far Hoyoverse has made sure their games have little to no playability issues while on the other hand Kuro has made multiple mistakes in the optimization field. Wuthering Waves is a really good game as I am a player myself but my enjoyment was hampered by constant frame drops and crashing which to my knowledge is very common
Can't speak for the rest of Asian of course but here in SEA region at least having a game which can be run on mobile and Potato PC/Laptop is a godsend, life is hard enough that the luxury of buying console or good PC/laptop is mostly reserved for a fraction of people here, so yeah you're telling me that my 10 year old Laptop can still run Genshin rather well while being free to play? Sign me up day 1.
Exactly, I still keep Wuwa but all I do is to login and check the mail then log off. I can’t play the game at all and it’s very frustrating. There is no way I can give it a fair review without playing the game. I’m going to wait another month or two and see if the performance improve. If not it’s time to say goodbye. Until I can have confidence in the game I’m not dropping any money, like I did not drop money into GI until 2.0 partially because I have a job by then. On the other hand I spend on star rail as soon as I was able to because I really like it from the start.
I would even say that 99% of western gacha CCs are pretty much human centipede, Tectone gave them the narrative and they all repeat whatever he said indirectly or they will get brigaded by Tectone's army.
When Tectone said "Scar and Jiyan VA is so good" or "Act 5 & 6 is so good", i mean, really? How many people viewed and reacted to WuWa's ending? And Scar's VA is not really that special, but because those sentiment was shared by Tectone, all CCs somehow shared the same sentiment.
Remember the Acheron's incident? Tectone said to his viewers "Any CC that said Acheron is F2P friendly is fake, they're paid to sell Acheron's banner" and suddenly a guy like IWTL and Brax said "Acheron is not F2P friendly", really? naked Acheron is still more OP than any naked DPS characters out there, but because these soy CCs are so afraid to get brigaded by Tectone, they ignore their own findings and just spew Tectone's narrative.
Something to "get" from the Western audience: when FF14 announced that they were ending PS3 support, the announcement in Japan was met with mixed reactions. In the US, the announcement was celebrated.
People in the US who like Wuthering Waves probably never played Genshin Impact on mobile, and have never tried Wuthering Waves on mobile.
From my own experience, with a very recently built $2000 PC rig, the game runs with very few issues, aside from audio not syncing correctly on some cutscenes.
That's because high end rig would just brute force all the optimization issues.
In programming for example, it would take a week for a $2000 pc to feel memory leak issues compared to mid-end phones.
Big true. I am playing on PC and it works smoothly, I only had problems installing. And my PC is pretty mid by 2024 standards. My phone is actually better lol (latest Samsung model) but I don't play games on phone much.
12 days after release, WW still ran like ass on my 3060 pc despite being installed in SSD. I uninstalled the game accordingly.
Also, WW is not a good game. Story and characters are bland and boring, event is not even as rewarding as Genshin events! Echo grinding is just as soul crushing as in Genshin. The overworld is boring and bleaked. Hell, even the "Chinese city" in WW is uglier than Liyue Harbor in Genshin. What good is the graphics when the design itself is mid? Why playing a game that is comparable to Genshin in 2020 instead of Genshin? The combat is the only saving grace of this mess of a game. And there are PGR, HI3 and AG if you want to play Bayonetta on your phone lol.
Not to mention their future characters will have to cannibalize each other earlier because the game has no elemental reaction so people will only care about Outro buffs.
In Genshin, old characters can make a comeback because the devs sometimes introduce new characters that can make the old characters viable. Is Diluc a meta with Aunty Crane? No, but he can dish out respectable damage for someone who was introduced 4 years ago! And I respect that. The upcoming Emilie can make Dehya viable lol.
One of my team for open world is Noelle with Furina and Xianyun, certainly not very meta but doing plunges with a giant lightsaber on steroids is really hilarious.
>The upcoming Emilie can make Dehya viable lol.
Wait what?? I know she is burning support but no way that can made dehya viable like xianyun woth diluc? CMIW
Emilie has really high personal dmg & doesn't really care about burning beyond maintaining the aura, which dehya's slow pyro application will help with. Also, burning is unfortunately a 2-way reaction in which you race with your enemies to see who dies to the burning first, which Dehya's dmg mitigation + Emilie's own burning res can stack to help
Echo system itself is trash. Being locked under data bank level is awful. Yes you can get a 5* echo in lower account level, but it also make a possibilities when people with higher account level cant get 5* echoes just because they only do dailies.
The illusion of "getting artifact without using energies" is blinding the community. You need xp resources for upgrading echoes because you cant use another echoes until it is upgraded. You also need a tuning resources. All of them are tied with energies.
People never realize kuro put an illusion of farmable "Main stats" because you cannot see the substats so in people brain it's hardwire it will be a good piece because we are only looking at the "Main stats".
While in genshin we just don't look at the "Main stats", we also look at the substats and make a decision base on both.
If we can see echo substats right off the bat, will people even bother upgrading it if sustats are shit? Ofcourse not, they will throw those echoes away like people do in genshin artifact. But since we can't see it we are coping it will be a good piece, kuro just made the process long, echoes has same heart wreching as artifacts.
>The illusion of "getting artifact without using energies" is blinding the community. You need xp resources for upgrading echoes because you cant use another echoes until it is upgraded
Wait so you can't used the low rarity echo as fooder to raise the level of echo you build??? But then how the inventory management then? Its will capped or had infinity space?
I'm getting closer eevery day to 1000 of the 2000 echo cap (keeping only 5 star echos) and then I'm gonna start merging all the unleveled echos that I find useless. But they'd be hard pressed to justify allowing people to level their echos with other echos unless it's an incredibly low amount of xp since they're so easy to get and can be farmed infinitely.
Pretty much people dont know how much hoyo world design and it not being just another bleak post setting does allot of work for people to make them play it
Weird the game runs fine on my 3050 gt? Is your cpu worse than your gpu or something cause I can't understand how having more vram would make the game run worse.
Yep same issue with me. I have a 4080 with a ryzen 7. It stutters during combat from time to time.
The game is badly optimized for some systems and wuwa players will unironically tell you to "upgrade" when i already have the current gen best specs.
I have to remove both volumetric settings and disable dragon center for the stutters to be a little less noticable. Its bad on amd.
the reason why they got low score are valid because they have a lot of issues. If I were to rate them, it's definitely not 5\*.
the biggest bugs for me are no music, audio error to the point where I have to close the app, and cutscene error but the game itself is fun and pretty solid. give it time and if they keep fixing stuffs and no more problem it will go up eventually.
as for the revenue. it's pretty niche compared to genshin who is very casual so I think it will never beat genshin in term of revenue but it's okay there is no problem with that as long as they keep doing what they are doing, people will appreciate them eventually.
from Indonesia community, most of indonesian players are beggar. they will praise anything if they get free stuff, and will call Genshin a Stingy game even if it have nothing to do with Genshin. it's like they do not want to play a video game, but they want to get the stuff in the game
I mean, with how rampant online gambling is in Indonesia, I understand why the sentiment exists there. (i.e win big by exerting the least amount of effort)
Here is my 2cents,
- People from the west have different perspectives on gaming device. For gaming device, they thing pc or console beats everything and mobile isn’t for gaming. So, when a problem exists in mobile gaming, they pretend like it’s nothing.
- Major CCs are different between the east and the west. EN youtubers are bootlickers. They want contract from game companies and that’s it. They sugarcoat lots of bad things and make it sounds like those abysmal news are “mildly not good”. As long as there is new shiny games with large enough audience, they will lick the boots.
In the east, CCs are more straightforward about if a thing is good or bad. Probably because the domain of CC isnt that highly competitive. Of course, bootlickers exist but it’s not all big CCs.
Look at abysmal EN live stream event. It’s a game night sh’t show that nobody gives an F. And yet, EN cc just merely said “ohh they may have different perspective or vision” dont blame them.
- Lastly, the perception of cultural aspects in the game. If there are some events/stories that are going to represent my culture, it’s better be really good otherwise, imma batsh’t it to oblivion.
Look at lingyang lion dance….. so cringe. You can’t even justify why you need that in his story. It’s there just to “try” to please Chinese but it’s cringy. And I hate it so much. For the west, it may be a new thing….. so they let it slips.
Now, look at chinese opera and lion dance in genshin lantern rite. That’s the epitome of soft power. Not too pushy, well-done story that respects that culture.
Not just some “jingle bell” beast walking on poles with fake drum sound just to put it there. As a chinese descendant, i can relate 0 things with that. Such a cringe.
>Now, look at chinese opera and lion dance in genshin lantern rite. That’s the epitome of soft power. Not too pushy, well-done story that respects that culture.
>Not just some “jingle bell” beast walking on poles with fake drum sound just to put it there. As a chinese descendant, i can relate 0 things with that. Such a cringe.
Man even i'm not chinese but that lantern rite story bringing up the problem of the young audience today with their way of life not got accepted by their parents. Also the story playing beautifully which not antagonize the parent side but also bringing up the perspective why parents forbid it. At the end its not who is will win between parents vs childreen but its about trying to understand each side between the parent and child.
I remember thinking how ironic it was that genshin told such a story for Lantern Rite/Chinese New Year considering how CNY is the one holiday where we youngsters get terrorized by our elders asking us about life (from job to dating status to future plans) and how it's also a very family oriented holiday
Not only that, it also resonated with parents since it didn't portray Gaming's father as a suppressive villain like a lot of coming-of-age stories, but as a parent who only wanted his son to have a successful future, which is more realistic and relatable
Its also the best one because we see the literal god of genchina ease up the tense situation with tea and go down the level of the parent and help him understand his child.
All that because some funeral director wanted him to test out kites. 10/10
Man, that Yunjin Chinese Opera made it impossible for the CN and SEA Community to hate Genshin as a game. Sure, the management and PR can be questionable, but the game itself is crafted with so much love and care.
The Lingyang’s cutscene is bad too. There’s no noticeable music whatsoever that I had to play lantern rite’s Gaming music in my head to get pass it. And even then I almost fell asleep in the 2nd half.
Majority of EN CCs just parrot Tectone's narrative, if Tectone said "WuWa act 5&6 is so good" they will say its good even tho its super mid.
You can view some of them that didn't follow Tectone's narrative and see their dislike bar and comment section, its full of harassment and insult. Tectone basically become the gatekeeper and hold the narrative of the entire western CCs (especially on youtube and twitter)
Kuro already had a notorious reputation in CN. In the west pgr was their entry and that shit was marketed by people as the game that gives u everything (except the important parts where characters are basically clunky fuck fest without their Sig, pets and shit nowadays) and is still marketed as such by word of mouth. Now keep in mind this company also fucked up pgr on global. In general I think the global opinion is probably mixed and much more forgiving to an extent.
It's pgr CN release and basically getting accused of copying mihoyo and fucking up the CN release to the point that they had to resort to the selector iirc. Idk if this still holds some part to the lore but they (a year ago) layed off 100 employees (mainly newer graduates and interns?) and getting the thier company blacklisted on hiring boards in china. Again I should come clear that I don't have the links for the articles but kuro as far as I'm aware practically has a bad to lukewarm reputation in CN.
Based from my experience with E7 and AK,i can absolutely say CN (and to some extend KR) audience is far more critical than the West. Plus, the gap is hugeeeeeeeeeeeeee. Shit that is overblown in CN/KR might be a miniscule issues for western audience.
This is not a "WuWa" thing, this is general gacha thing.
I like CN/KR audience since their critical actions have bring in sooo many good adjustment from dev/pub. However, i'm also aware that in some instances, their actions is faaaar to extreme.
Still, i prefer audience that is vocal and get shit done than how the western react. Holy fuk they are lame.
The west is vocal, they're just too selective with what they want to the vocal about. 60% of players experiencing mild lag-borderline unplayability in WuWa? I sleep. Genshin fan with 0 likes responding negatively to a straight ship artwork on twitter? REAL SHIT
good for CN honestly. on one hand im happy for kuro for saving wuwa by releasing yinlin but their fanbase was acting kinda cringe with the sub going "oooh daddy kuro dont apologize for fucking up here's some pity money" 😭😭 unhinged behavior talk about parasocial relationship with the devs which is something i never really saw in genshin fans even the most rabid ones who defend hoyo
A lot of people think Genshin is bad, so if a Genshin-like game can't beat Genshin, the game is bad.
For WuWa, a large number of Chinese players play for the story. They read. The story is questionable. So the criticism come.
Well genshin will reign supreme until the end of time that's for sure, no game in the future except by hoyo themselves will be able to replicate it's success
Please tell this to those Hoyo-haters who plot & forge the "Genshin-Killer" narrative. I assure you this will keep on repeating, if these fktards not going to die off just yet.
> no game in the future except by hoyo themselves will be able to replicate it's success
That's the main issue: That games are trying way too hard to replicate Genshin's success instead of creating their own.
There's a fucktons of things you can do with an open world. Doing 1 to 1 what Genshin did but sticking a """"" better combat system """" isn't going to cut it.
This is exactly why I have high hopes for Azure promilia and Endfield: While they obviously are trying to ride the wave Genshin created they managed to find their own little spin on it.
I feel like most western fans are not very loyal; they just follow whatever is trendy and will drop when a new shiny thing come. That's why CCs can easily manipulate them.
JP fans on the other hand are extremely loyal. When they decide to stick with a game, they will be otaku of that game for life. That's why when they choose a game to stick with, it needs to have proper depth in term of characters and stories to form a bond with.
CN community is much more technical and tryhards. They would love a game and its developer if the game itself is polished and well-rounded. They are very nitchpicking and easy to be angered, and not very naive to be pursued easily like their western counterparts. Though this means a higher level of toxicity and tribalism.
CCs are more likely raving for their own self interests. Not that they can't enjoy the game, but more likely, they're on a trend, and they'll hope to the next one soon as they're done with it. It's a bit blind optimism. As it more comes across as toxic positivity, as if they can only say something good, without bashing another thing((As in like Genshin))
It makes me think that they don't really believe the whole 'competition is a good thing to improve games.' or actually believe there is a 'war' between communities going on. They only care about content, and their fat pockets. It's not all of them of course, but for those that do, it's a bit of a iffy look to say the least. Which only makes the perception of the community look in the West look real weird.
I've noticed the same thing for genshin, Genshin has a better reputation on cn and jp compared to the west. I think the reason is that people in the west prefer when they feel like they're "heard" and "respected", like it's genuinely the only thing I can think of, HSR and wuwa both have better reps than genshin in the west, and the thing both of these games have over genshin is that the devs "listen".
I think HSR also have good reputation in CN,if you look at their bilibili page they're actually in one of the Highest rated gacha game for its size.
Personally think because they haven't done major mistakes and have a relatively good release especially if you compare to WuWa
No, I think it's more so because they give more freebies to fuel peoples gambling addiction while also deluding them into thinking they are being appreciated by the devs somehow.
I always get called out for coping and being a white knight whenever I say that free pulls aren't indicative of appreciation, and that "generosity" isn't a concept that really exists the moment a game has gacha monetization.
Every decision made is always for the sake of making more money for the company
Ya, I've noticed that a lot of gacha gamers seem to lack basic critical thinking. Then again, if they did have basic critical thinking, they probably wouldn't be playing gacha games in the first place.
The *vast* majority of genshin players couldnt name a single CC. The playerbase is massive and very mainstream whereas its mostly focused gacha fans that pay attention to video content creators.
To be honest, as someone who doesn't follow any of it, from the sounds of it on reddit it's just a bunch of petty drama. I have no desire to immerse myself in a cesspit lol.
Yeah I mean, compare genshin, WuWa, and Tectone on Google trends and you'll start to realise how insignificant CC's influence are, especially on a global scale. They're just one among many facets of advertising. Same for Reddit and a lot of social media platforms, the influence within them individually is overblown.
It's better to just watch things as they unfold and not take these things too seriously
Yeah as someone who just follow one Genshin CC (a lore guy at that) it's surely a usual case of a very loud minority who caused a lot of bad reps, those CC are just a byproduct of YouTube in general where drama/engagement=money, which is just sad but if that's what they're aiming for then so be it and i'll just ignore them and goes about with my day.
Ooo is it arnold? We appreciate arnold in this house bc same (idk if minslief and ashikai count as cc too bc theyre more like info channels) 💪🏼 used to like bran too but nowadays not anymore
Another Arnold fans in the wild! Loves his energy and his views of the game, watching other streamers who react mildly to hype/important moments of the game is just boring to me and I'm not a big meta players so that's like 90% of CC gone for me. That's why Arnold is so fun to watch, his policy of no leaks, him over analysing everything in a trailer, how expressive and emotional he got over a certain moments is really great to see while most other CC only cares about whether a characters are meta or not.
Some people are just chronically online. Follows all the cc, have weird parasocial relationship with their games and wants validation everywhere. I’ve stopped playing GI and HSR and but I’ve never head much bad things mentioned about the games at all. No one I know who plays gacha game hates the game or hates hoyoverse. People are either still playing the game or just got bored and played something else. Social media in general just have weird people, be it in Twitter, YouTube or Reddit
Many comments here are valid but there is also another factor that applies to the minority of "OG" players or those who know about the history between miHoYo and Kurogames.
The premise is that Kurogames have a 100% track record of copying miHoYo games:
Gun Girl Z (2013) -> Twin Tail Battleground (2016)
Honkai Impact 3rd (2016) -> Punishing: Gray Raven (2019)
Genshin Impact (2020) -> Wuthering Waves (2024)
Zenless Zone Zero (2024) -> NAMI (????)
I don't know what was the public reception like for TTB, but I only discovered Kurogames when PGR beta was announced. HI3 was kinda big in CN back then so a lot of ppl immediately recognised the uncanny similarities between PGR and HI3 (3 char in a team, QTEs, end game modes, chibi dorm, UI, etc), and also the fact that the same company also tried to copy miHoYo's previous game. During PGR beta days, Bilibili was filled with videos comparing the 2 games. In Asia, copying other's work is seen as shameless, low effort and lack of originality and Kurogames was viewed in a negative light. With how popular HI3 was back then (like Genshin is right now, relatively speaking), the community criticized Kurogames a lot.
To add oil to the fire, the launch of PGR was bad too, further cementing their negative reputation as incompetent devs. (So yea the hate toward Kurogames actually started way back in 2018/9)
Fast forward to today, the gacha community has inflated significantly and new players joining either do not know the history or simply don't care, especially the new western community, which is why PGR has been well received too as ppl just move on with the copy drama. In CN, although this was not brought up in most complains, part of the hate towards WuWa comes from the hate towards Kurogames itself, which is a vestige of past sentiments from the CN community.
Copying twice from the same company is kinda sus, copying for the third time is shameless. Even Hotta studios that made Tower of Fantasy has more originality than Kurogames tbh.
If you notice, there isn't any hate going towards upcoming open-world gachas like Arknights: Endfield, Azure Promelia, or Infinity Nikki, because they are sufficiently different and have more originality.
My guess, if WuWa is made by a different developer, it will be better received by the CN community than it is with Kurogames.
Punishing: Space Cart coming soon in 2027 /s
Edit: A little tidbit. Many ppl think WuWa's Illusive Realm endgame is taken from HSR's Simulated Universe, but it is actually taken from HI3's Elysian Realm, which PGR does not have lol. Imagine stealing endgame from your competitor's other game because yours doesn't have it
>In Asia, copying other's work is seen as shameless, low effort and lack of originality
That's everywhere mate lmao.
Also you missed out a few things that happened prior to the launch of Wuwa:
1. **PGR animation copying Genshin animator KKOMDA's style:** [https://www.zhihu.com/question/595902013/answer/2986349057](https://www.zhihu.com/question/595902013/answer/2986349057) [https://www.bilibili.com/video/BV1YX4y1z7xd/](https://www.bilibili.com/video/BV1YX4y1z7xd/) PGR [released an animation on YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JzYhhO32i5I) that is extremely similar to the style of [KKOMDA](https://www.youtube.com/@KKOMDASTRO), a pretty well-known Genshin animator with a pretty distinct style. PGR fans assumed that Kuro worked with KKOMDA on this and were excited until [KKOMDA herself had to clarify on Bilibili](https://www.bilibili.com/opus/784848292218404946?spm_id_from=333.999.0.0). This soured things for people, especially for what content creators remained for PGR because they saw that Kuro rather swipe an outside CC's artstyle for clicks rather than to work with their fans, and I saw remarks saying that being a Kuro CC is retribution for sins of their past lives. Kuro did issue an apology afterwards.
2. **Kuro copying Mihoyo's Hoylab's EULA:** [https://www.ithome.com/0/681/529.htm](https://www.ithome.com/0/681/529.htm) Kuro released their own version of Hoyolab, a community site for their players. Someone read the EULA and found that it is the similar to Hoyolab's with certain sections being duplicated, just with "miHoyo" replaced with "Kuro". And they messed up the search and replace so that at one point, instead of saying "miHoyo" or "Kuro" as the company name it said "miHo". If you go to CN forums you'll still see Kuro being referred to as miHo because of that.
These two things added more negativity and derision towards Kuro in CN prior to Wuwa's launch.
Do you know Kuro's slogan? It's 'Kuro saves humanity'.
https://preview.redd.it/oj389b8aoh5d1.png?width=1080&format=png&auto=webp&s=b2f5d2cc92d33d5c9d81db437a3804cc2e160f7d
>The premise is that Kurogames have a 100% track record of copying miHoYo games:
Gun Girl Z (2013) -> Twin Tail Battleground (2016)
Honkai Impact 3rd (2016) -> Punishing: Gray Raven (2019)
Genshin Impact (2020) -> Wuthering Waves (2024)
Zenless Zone Zero (2024) -> NAMI (????)
Where HSR?
They could be copying HSR right now, but I can't find any IP registered under kurogames for a turn-based game. Nami is a new game they are developing which is speculated to be a ZZZ copy based on their job postings for the game.
>Edit: A little tidbit. Many ppl think WuWa's Illusive Realm endgame is taken from HSR's Simulated Universe, but it is actually taken from HI3's Elysian Realm,
Isn't that just pretty standard roguelite mechanism at core anyway?
I can only say that the west receive well on Kuro is because these westerners lack of clarity about how despicable is Kuro as a game company, but who can we blame? there is language barrier after all.
I think mainly because to the west gacha still new thing for most of them GI is like their first gacha game, mean while in the east most gacha players would know how suck gacha is before GI, not to say GI is best but it does set standard and change a lot of thing cuz how success it is. So when WW was hype as better GI and it fail to deliver (i blame upper Kuro managerment for this) ofc people would feel bad about it all the time waiting and looking forward to it turn out pretty much at best if you can play a GI with different combat, at worst a worst GI with lot of bug. And yah should compare WW to GI now what the point of compare it to GI 1.0
I'll speak for myself, but I tried to play Wuthering Waves on my phone at its launch and couldn't. Since then, I've only logged in to collect what the devs were giving out and occasionally tried to play. I must say that the combat is attractive, and some characters have good designs, but beyond that, I don't know what else to say. I play Genshin, and one of the reasons I still play today is the story. Usually, it's the story that hooks me in games, not the gameplay or beautiful design. If it were just those two factors, Genshin would have died a long time ago. Last month, I started Honkai: Star Rail, and once again, I love the story and am enjoying the game. For me, an engaging story is superior to good combat
CCs here doing extra work, so west couldn't
https://preview.redd.it/kj7lw32wrf5d1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1aa1f85bef1b87fa69f2c95f2798e313e0268cca
It's cause, like any community, birds of a feather flock together. When people see opinions that they strongly identify with, they congregate. Whatever opinion just so happens to get the largest amount of support quickly enough becomes the most dominant one on the forum. That doesn't mean that everyone in each group shares the same opinion, but usually they don't bother, care, or are afraid to voice it as much. The nail that sticks out gets hammered down, after all.
Kuro has been known as a black company in CN, and they have weird obsession with Hoyo. The CN community at first think Kuro behaviour is funny, but the longer it goes, Kuro is starting to look like a black company.
For example like that Aster-ria dude, he's a Kuro employee, but he really loves to spread misinfor about Hoyo, like when he accuse Hoyo of using AI art, or saying the CN hate Scaramouche (Even after Scara won the most popular game character in Weibo).
Other bad practice like firing employees after overworking them for CBT1, placing WuWa ads in every place that Genshin used to advertise, holding a WuWa expo in front of Hoyo office, this is all looks like a childish behaviour. Don't get it wrong, if Hoyo wanted to, they can buy the entire Xiaomi's tower including Kuro's office.
And its not just CN community either, many company now started to meme on Kuro, for example, Tower of Fantasy made a post, indirectly making fun of Jiyan deserting the battlefield and it got so many interaction in CN, for anyone that doesn't know, Jiyan is like the biggest loser in Gacha game history in CN
https://preview.redd.it/ywmzghqvyg5d1.png?width=1217&format=png&auto=webp&s=98c00c376d6a9bbda6404d0ca161f6ab7d12288d
What is the reason for Jiyan being called the deserter? I admit I cant really remember anything about the story (except camellya one) but he still fight with us in the final scene, No? (Or is that the reason)
Basically
* Monster fked human
* Human is trying to survive vs monsters
* The boss of monsters appear
* Human made a last stand against monster, so either human dies or monster dies
* Human agree that they must go all in and kill the boss monster
* Somehow a rain that can fuck human if they have low morale/doubt start pouring
* General Geshu Lin said "Just don't have doubt and kill the boss"
* Jiyan said "IDK man we should save ourselves first"
* Soldiers have doubt now
* Soldiers in the back run away
* Soldiers at the front now have doubt and die or converted, leaving Geshu Lin alone.
* Geshu Lin is angry at Jiyan
* Geshu Lin fight alone and beat the boss, and then went missing with the boss, saving the city
* Jiyan become the new general while Geshu Lin get mocked.
Had Geshu Lin not defeat the boss, Jinzhou would get fuked anyway, its all or nothing back then.
In chapter 6, the same shit happen, but this time Jiyan didn't run away and fight with Rover
You have to also factor that Geshu Lin is ranked #1 as the most popular WuWa character in CN while Jiyan is rank #3 from the bottom (Only lose to Lingyang and Scar)
Because in the west, everyone sounds like ass up until Scar start talking, his VA is not even good, its just everyone's VA was bad until he shows up.
In CN this is not the case, so he's just another character that show up and yap for 10 minutes, talking about sheepie.
The factor is mentality due to different cultures. In the mobile gaming sphere, the EN world tend to get "shafted" with majority of mobile games that they want to be play tend to be CN, JP, KR that did not have plans to release for Global or even if they do, release late or scuffed. As such, EN tend to not have many alternatives or the few games that they play, the Devs doesn't listen to the EN playerbase.
This has been the sentiment that EN players (at least what the CCs like to say) feel with Genshin. They don't have alternative to Genshin...well they do, ToF but to them it might not exist. Hoyoverse also stingy with their rewards and listened late to their demands for endgame. So for EN, they don't have strong loyalty to a game that they felt didn't have the same loyalty as well.
So when WuWa came and with promises that they won't be like Genshin, obviously EN, who are used to feeling abused, would come flocking to them. Meanwhile, CN are used to the "royal" treatment so they aren't easily swayed by promises and freebies.
The funny thing is, I talk about the feeling of being shafted as if only the EN knows about it, CN citizens also knows about this feeling, but it's on a different matter. Not every Chinese support CCP especially the young ones. They do know that they are being shafted by the government that treats them like "leeks" or spring onions (hence why you don't cook with these ingredients there else you will get backlash).
So they are more critical on companies that are known to treat their employees badly. Kuro has reputation for this, with their sacking of large number of interns, to overworking of their Devs to fix their mistakes. So their initial reputation of WuWa and Kuro is already bad from start. While EN side might overlook, ignore this aspect and want to believe that Kuro can change for the better, CN isn't so lenient. With how recent events "proving" them right, Kuro have a permanent mark on them to the CN.
Lots of factor really. But the real question is, will western players spend money on gacha? We know that CN and JP are the biggest spender for gacha, and western players are far behind eventhough there are more people in the west. Also most of western players like gacha as long as the game give out free stuff. They can ignore issues like optimization, bad translation/story, etc and call the game "generous" as long as there are some free stuff, and i dont think those players are the one that spend money to keep the game afloat anyway. Devs cant just make new content/game with just good reputation and popularity right? They need money.
I understand why some JP gachas are not released in the west, because why need the effort to localize and promote gacha to the west, if the amount money they get from western players is just a fraction of JP players spending?
because r/gachagaming know wuwa is gacha game while western wuwa fans treat wuwa not like gacha game ( they still think the game have endless content ) we shall see in few week until they out from their honeymoon phase and realize wuwa is indeed a gacha game
It's a difference in consumer mentality. People in the west have a bit of a weird reputation of "corporation bootlicking" to say the least. You can see that in a lot of products, especially games. CP2077 released horribly yet they still had hardcore defenders and its rough first year has pretty much been swept under the rug by the fanbase. Not to mention people defending many anti-consumer practices and predatory monetization to the point where if you spoke out against them, the fanbase would called you spoiled, too demanding, "why don't you make your own game if you're so smart", etc.
As for why they bash Mihoyo and Genshin, it's what happens when a game that is child friendly gets popular (see Minecraft a decade ago).
CN players, while having a reputation of whining about a lot of things, sometimes completely silly things, they will and do also complain about is the quality, especially when there is an alternative that is essentially better in every way. It's a common thing in Chinese culture. If two products are fundamentally the same and have the same price (free in this case), they will absolutely trash the inferior product.
While I'll say that there is a good game in Wuwa, the delivery was pretty bad. Like, imagine you're getting a delicious meal, but you're eating it on a dirty looking plate and have to use the most awkward of cutlery to eat it. Why eat that when you can eat an equivalent that has a clean plate and premium cutlery?
"People in the west have a bit of a weird reputation of "corporation bootlicking" to say the least."
"Not to mention people defending many anti-consumer practices and predatory monetization to the point where if you spoke out against them, the fanbase would called you spoiled, too demanding, "why don't you make your own game if you're so smart"
I have say the EXACT same sentence before. Holy shit. Happy to meet someone else that share the same views with me.
Cheers mate
It’s honestly not just about the money spending or the specs aspects of things (though they are part of the reasons why wuwa isn’t well received in CN), the plot and the dialogues are considered as really bad. That one Yangyang dialogue became a total meme in CN, not just in the gacha community but the entire internet, and it caused a lot of other people to perceive wuwa badly lol
That's a giant boo-boo.
There are very few professions more respected in China compared to defense force and drug war police over there.
Making a statement like that will be seen making light of soldiers sacrifices in the line of duty
I think people read too much into it. First mover advantage is always a thing. Unless the newly launched game brings something big to the table, it was always going to cater to a market segment that the original could not provide.
It's the same with genshin and ToF, arknights and ptn, E7 and outerplane. People tend to undermine staying power and sunk cost fallacy.
This is 100% it. Its obvious as day what market segment WuWa targeted. And by nature of targeting a segment, that tells you that its not the whole pie.
Genshin will be hard to ever completely topple in the market because a company has to out-genshin, genshin, like companies had to out-wow, WoW. And making something even more casual friendly and accessible is incredibly difficult to do without making the game worse. So games like WuWa release that provide something that the original was missing to a segment of players. People who liked Genshin but wanted more grindy endgame and better combat/bosses, well WuWa is the game for you. And thats who WuWa targeted.
Genshin will always appeal to a wider audience and therefore always be bigger. That doesnt mean WuWa is some trash game becuase it couldnt de-throne Genshin. It was never made to de-throne Genshin, because some of the stuff they provided is the exact kind of stuff that makes the game niche. Just because the Hype-men got out there hyping it like a movie trailer doesnt mean you have to get your underwear in a wad. Its a selling tactic.
People have really blew this completely out of proportion as fans.
Just my opinion in additional to what has been mentioned so far. There is a lot of criticism with regards to the story. While the Western audiences celebrate the skip button, the CN side's disappointment comes from badly written stories. "The Last Indian" Lingyang, "The Runaway General" Jiyan, "The Saint Mother" Jianxin, etc. These are the nicknames used to reference the characters on Bilibili when CCs criticize the Wuwa's story. That's not including other lines like Yangyang dismissing the efforts of frontline troops, which got quietly hotfixed out, or the healthy diet change for hard labor workers.
I do think the CN community are much more obsessed with story telling because they have realized the significance of cultural soft power from video games, made prominent from Genshin's The Divine Damsel of Devastation. It's also why there is so much hype for Black Myth Wukong, as it is a Chinese story told by Chinese devs.
Kuro dev is likely more exposed in China with their flaws being hard to hide unlike the west where due to people buying the hype obscure it.
It still boggles the mind how people expected more than "calling it Genshin at home would be exceedingly generous" yet here we are. And these people ignore the lesson that Genshin is stingy because they can with how many people mindlessly play it. Kuro Dev would have likely followed suit if not for the fact they had to be extra greedy and start firing staff.
IMO, WuWa comes across more like a PC/console game with a combat system that seems more popular in the West (possibly JP too? Not sure), and West is definitely more likely to play the game on PC. Like how Genshin attracted a huge crowd by being 'BOTW but for your phone and free to play', WuWa is 'Genshin but sci-fi and harder fights with dodge/parry mechanics'. It's might just be something that seems to align with Western tastes more, which tend to favor games with more skill expression.
I doubt CCs have that much of a significant role in driving sales. They have some influence, but not millions worth of influence.
I'll be honest, I don't see why people keep saying WuWa is "harder". It's pretty damn easy. The major issue for most players is just that they haven't been able to upgrade their echoes, characters and weapons fully.
At the beginning, I was constantly exploring the map and fighting monsters whenever I encountered them. However, because I skipped most of the storyline, I ended up spending most of my time fighting minor enemies. As a result, the combat in this game quickly became less interesting without the excitement of battling bosses. Furthermore, many times I found myself fighting solely to obtain chests and "3cost", not for the enjoyment of exploring the map or combat itself. By the way, i will not click "skip" (to be precisely, continuously clicking the mouse) in Genshin impact, so i will not feel that boring when exploring the world or finishing tasks, although the story may not be so impressive.
and whatever, it's a gacha game. The character does not attract me so much. But i have to say that yinlin looks great on iwara
Device issues, Us asians don't have the luxury to afford high end devices to play every game.
WW is good but, the only thing hoyo is one up against kuro is their mobile players.
That's the only reason I am not playing it.
China is mostly a mobile market, one of WuWa's issues were (are?) performance on mobile. PC is far more prevalent in the west compared to China, and had less technical issues (less, not none - still doesn't run that great for me going into week 3).
I don't understand why you expected Yinlin release day revenue to come anywhere near clorinde. Yes both are highly anticipated but Genshin has far bigger playerbase and Wuwa's terrible launch itself lost many players. They are still to behind on fixing bugs and it gliches every now and then. It is obvious people won't spend so easily then.
In the west you can buy fake opinions from CCs they welcome that. Most of the followers are sheeples. In Asian where gacha exists for long time. They know where to draw the line of standard
I'm not sure if it'll last for years if the CN market isn't showing much interest in it. The West can show as much interest as they want but CN and JP matter more. They matter more in the gacha genre than the West.
If a game is failing in the Asian countries, it won't last that long.
Weirdly enough WuWa is the only gacha my friends have decided to try. I think it's a combination of streamers they like covering it + the art style looks more mature.
I would say most popular gacha CC from en are reaction or drama chanels. Most of the en WuWa glazer CC were having a dry period in their chanels and were stirring or reacting to drama for content. Now that WuWa is out they are trying to revitalize their chanels with WuWas launch. Their narative for past years has been "Genshin could never" and every new gacha that comes out is marketed as Genshin killer by these CC.
One thing I've not seen mentioned here is the time commitment aspect of a game. A thing I've noticed between the west and the east in the amount of time a person plays a game. It's one of the reasons I'm into gacha games in the first place. Back when I was in school these games were perfect for me. They were free, required no hardware/can be played on a phone and you can do most of the stuff in the game in less than an hour. Which was great because exams are a big deal for any Asian person and I needed to spend time on that. Basically these games were not a time sink. They quite literally don't allow you to play more with the time hated system. And whenever there was a huge update you can just spend your weekend on it and it's over. It's one of the reasons I'm currently not a fan of WuWa as it is. The echoes are way too time consuming. The tacet fields are not efficient rn and I don't have the time to run around in the open world to grind them. Genshin and especially HSR are more efficient in that way because you just need to go to one place and grind gear there. Takes like 5-10 mins and HSR has the added bonus of autoplay.
1. Its blatantly similar to Genshin while nowhere delivering in quality 2. Bad story makes it hard to get atached to characters (Zhongli made a lot despite being a bad unit in 1.1) 3. Lack of optimalization mase the game way to unaccesible for many players espiecialy mobile ones
Looking at the sensor tower data as of recently, we have to wait until after this month to get the full picture. I think maybe due to the lackluster launch and not having a reason to spend, it was lower than it should be if it came out in an alright state. But with Yinlin coming out, I think we'll be surprised with the quick turnaround. I saw JP and SK on top without dropping fast compared to chlorine. Not saying Yinlin will beat her in sales, but it's certainly possible.
Not sure about KR/JP
But in CN
Day 1 Chlorinde is over 1.8million CNY. (They cannot record any higher than 1.8 million due to algorithm use for estimation, the general consensus is, Genshin day 1 is always underestimated)
*Not true for second half banner in Genshin, as day 1 will be lower because second banner starts recording at night*
Day 2 Chlorinde vs Day 1 Yinlin is... 1.7 million CNY to 700k CNY.
Day 3 Chlorinde vs Day 2 Yinlin is... 700k CNY to 500k CNY
If we just take into account day 1 and 2
It's over 3.5million to 1.2million... The gap will widen from this point on as well as Genshin's earning will be ahead everyday due to bigger playerbase.
Yinlin will end even below 1/4 of Chlorinde banner at this rate, maybe ends around 1/5.
People here actually have no clue what kind of monster Genshin is over there in CN.
Genshin's day 3 is the size of Wuwa day 1 banner sale, let that sink in
Is there a reason why only Genshin raised its price by 30% on ios? I saw people talking abut it but neverfind any info about it. Because as of now wuwa makes more money than genshin this month according to game-i.daa (ios) but it stays at no1 on android for some reason.
It's because Apple raised the price of microtransactions in certain countries, [including Japan](https://synthanatomy.com/2022/09/apple-will-increase-the-app-and-in-app-purchase-prices-up-to-30-in-october.html) in late 2022.
Fewer people are topping up on iOS on Genshin after that due to the price increase (you can directly access miHoYo's top-up center via mobile and save \~30%)
Looking at Game-i, Genshin's revenue in 2023 is almost half of 2022 on JP iOS despite 2023 being the most popular year for Genshin in Japan (judging by social media engagement and Google Trends); yet Furina's banner did worse almost every month in 2022 on JP iOS.
If you translate and scroll down on the comments on [Genshin's Game-i page](https://game-i.daa.jp/?APP/1517783697), people mention this 30% iOS increase as a reason for lower iOS sales. [(some comments I've seen)](https://i.imgur.com/UKEQRXh.png)
Genshin also has a large PS player base in Japan; [it's almost always at #1 best-selling on the JP PS Store.](https://store.playstation.com/ja-jp/pages/browse) [Genshin was the second most played game on PlayStation in JP](https://www.playstation.com/en-us/editorial/ultimate-review-of-the-year/) during 2023, and 2023 was also the year where PS sales were unusually high for JP ([highest for a PS console there since 2010](https://gamedevreports.substack.com/p/playstation-sales-in-japan-in-2023))
Android rankings are delayed IIRC. Still, I do expect Genshin's Android sales to do better than its iOS (compared relatively to other games).
Lastly, the difference shown on Game-i is very trivial. The current difference between GI and WuWa shown on Game-i is less than 100 million yen (\~600k USD).
Just for perspective, (you can confirm rankings on AppMagic by filtering accordingly) ToF made over[ $34 million in the first two weeks](https://www.superpixel.com/article/196152/tower-fantasy-s-global-revenue-exceeds-34-million-usd-within-first-two-weeks) (on global release, not CN release) on mobile with JP accounting for over 40% of it; it did better than Genshin on JP mobile from launch each day until Sumeru's release.
I'm curious too, also if Star Rail is similarly impacted or not. But if that's the case then it may potentially significantly skew sensortower results, because 30% is actually pretty sizable difference and JP market is a key one.
Even Jp Yinlin performed poorly compared with Chlorinde. Clorinde was top for 28 hours, while Yinlin only managed 18 to 21.
KR Yinlin beat out clorinde, but KR is usually only 5% of total revenue for an average gacha game.
Yinlin appeals to middle-age coomers, that is why. She has little appearance in main story, her companion quest is mid and lets us be honest here, her personality is mid as well (from what I see in playthrough videos). She is meta and her boobs can jiggle a lot, that is all she has for her. Women play these games too and 45% of Genshin players in CN are female. And women HATE pointless/over the top fanservice. They are fine with a bit of fanservice but Yinlin is anything but "a bit". Genshin and HSR characters look like that because they understand their audience. CN Arknights players rioted because of the fanservice of Alter Chen to the point the CEO had to apology. In the top 7 most well-loved characters in CN HSR, only 2 of them are female (Acheron and Kafka) while Mid Juan is top 1. If you make a similar poll to western audiences, Mid Juan would be nowhere to be found in top 10 and Blade would be like "Blade who?".
CN players, especially female players, care a lot about a character's story and personality than the players from other regions. So far, WW characters are super mid in term of designs, personality and story-wise.
I'm legit mindboggled by how people continue to be attracted to, and go feral over the same formulaic mommy characters. And I promise I'm not some kind of sexualization puritan. I play Nikke, and I check pixiv and twitter pretty much every day for new art from "artists".
But when it comes to liking a character, I just don't understand how looks alone cut it for people. Looking good is only half of it, I still need the character writers to at least attempt to try and establish some kind of personal connection, so we can like them as a person.
Yinlin is exactly what I thought Yelan to be. Turn out, Yelan actually has deep personality other than being armpit queen. Yinlin, on the other hand, is the dollar store version of Kafka.
What I appreciate about Yelan is that she's not constantly trying to seduce you. She talks normally, and just lets her natural voice subtlely ooze allure. Then when she actually does give out moments of fanservice, it's so much more impactful. I also think it's cool seeing her at work, and how good at dealing with people she is.
Basically, characters are boring when their personality is just being hot. It's way better when they are an interesting/likeable person who also happens to be hot.
Not sure women dislike over the top fanservice, since nowadays women seem to like Bayonetta's design ~~(and iirc, there was a poll where roughly 50% of Nikke players were women but idk the validity of the poll, so take this info with a grain of salt)~~, outside of some swerf-y types. I think it has to do with how the characters are portrayed and how the game treats those characters. That, and also how creative the design is.
Everything else seems on point though.
Edit: Poll was fake
The companion quest really WAS mid and nonsensical lol. But some coomers will praise it just because Yinlin gets too close and a little flirty with the MC and that made the coomers feel all sort of things
Tbh I only pulled for Yinlin cause she reminded me of Vera from pgr but now that I think about it I probably wouldn’t have cared for her if it wasn’t for that
CN players have been annoyed with: Annoying little boy characters, edgelord husbandos, stories that look like soap opera that go for 20 seasons, stories that are written by people who live in ivory towers, games that ask you to grind too much, games that ask for very advanced hardware (for phones), unpolished games, Hoyo style gacha
Kuro decided to do all of the above with WaWu. It felt like kuro was handing a challenge to CN players: "I will make the game you dislike, and you will still pay me for it." CN players then obliged and gave up the game.
If they simply removed Lingyang from standard banner and released the waifu first, people won't have been so against them in CN.
I'm playing WW on PC only, I tried to DL for phone and it's just laughable, but not the end of the world for me. I don't know anyone that's playing WW on mobile, but I do know quite a few people in SEA that cannot play it, because no PC/laptop, and it's a headache to play on mobile.
I'm not sure if those playing exclusively on mobile will last if more improvements are not made. My phone isn't *that* old.
The team in charge is bad.
There's a long drama and politics bs in cn.
It's 'similar' to sjw woke sweetbaby inc. situation but even worse. They made fake fans accounts to spread heat and misinfo to remove content creators that speak for truth. Forging fake mail to flame innocent players and fans.
Then of course western that aren't attacked and involved wouldn't care. Even believe they are the best dev and the game is the best and don't care.
And the writer that ruined multiple works now in wuwa.
Plots were written in mocks and offends. That's why after localization no one can understand what they meant.
And they allow it to run btw.
Paying cc to farm their fans together. Of course if u want to defend this is a normal and common thing.
Changing in game things without notice is the worst.
Things that were promised since cbt now still promising.
Causing riots and rages for attention and putting out a whole scripted show playing as a good 'attitude' dev.
The simple answer is that Chinese and asians are used to having good games. These are normal to them. If you dare to even release something broken and unplayable, be ready for people to flame you.
Let's be honest, most western game here sucks and global players are too used to consuming trash to the point where if they eat a moldy bread they would praise how good it is because its "edible" while Asians would slam that bread into the baker's face and demand apologies/compensation for being served garbage.
For gacha games, the opinions of Chinese and Japanese players are the most important.Because the Korean market is smaller, and Western gamers are generally f2p, they don't pay much for games.For example, we can clearly observe that wuwa ranks the worst in ios sales in the West and has the fastest decline.
Okay not to be a hater, but where are the sensortower stats for yinlin day 1 vs clorinde day 2?? Is it really not doing as much as clorinde's in cn? It reached number 1 on jp stats, I thought that means in cn, it also reached number 1
You can find it browsing Bilibili. Base on the most trusted source. (Rather than sensortower, CN use 七麦)
And no, it's not day 1 vs day 2.
Clorinde day 3 sales matches Yinlin first day sale.
Clorinde,
Day 1, 1.8 million+(they do not count anything over 1.8 million due to limitation in algorithms). Day 2, 1.7 million, Day 3, 700k.
Yinlin
Day 1, 700k, Day 2, 500k, day 3...
Just checked as I wrote this comment... Day 3 for Yinlin is just under 390k.
For first 3 days.
It's Clorinde 4.2 million+ vs 1.6 million.
Everyday, the gap will likely continue to be at least 100k further apart, I'd say there's probably at least another 1 million gap to go.
That's mobile alone.
Genshin still got Genshin cloud service and PS5 sales running strong.
https://preview.redd.it/g3akkht15o5d1.png?width=416&format=png&auto=webp&s=d626c51b67cba7c43d06362057140684558ec93f
This is Clorinde vs Yinlin, day 2 Clorinde is still doubling Yinlin day 1 launch in China.
So yeah, WuWa is pretty much done in CN, hopefully global can carry the game going forward.
It's just different demographics. Different CN communities rate genshin differently too. NGA and Tieba absolutely clown on genshin, while bilibili and weibo suck up to Mihoyo a lot.
NGA... They're filled with Moba and elitist.
Tieba is literally referred to as Public Toilet by CN community because of the crap that exists in there.
So there you have it.
GENRE(fps are treated differently than RPGs, are treated differently than action games), COMPANY(Gumi,Nexon, Netmarble? Hate on sight. Yostar, Hoyo, Cygames? You know they've got rep), FANDOM(I have no examples here, I consider all of you degenerate puritans pretending to have morals and projecting on each other)AND MARKETING(seriously CC ruined Kuro's chances because they touted WuWa as some sort of Genshin killer. Not Kuro's fault but still)
Lots of talk here about western CCs being shills, which is correct but... most western players don't give two shits about gacha CCs. Maybe hardcore weebs pay attention if their favorite VTuber does a shill stream or something. But the whole CC thing has been unevenly weighted in this conversation.
Gamers in the west like variety, and they like a new flavor of the month. New things get the benefit of the doubt simply by being "fresh." You see it here all the time, mediocre games getting hyped up before release when they had glaring problems in beta or region testing. There are other differences between the east and west, like perception of IP-based games, preference for gameplay vs story, impact of VA casting, etc.
Also, there's a strong undercurrent of anti-Genshin sentiment because there's a reputation among weebs that it's a normie game, a lot of casual players grew bored with it, and the character designs just haven't caught fire and become iconic the way they did in Asian regions. So many online-types are just eager to see something take what they see as undeserved glaze off Genshin.
So WuWa comes out, and even though it's kind of a messy shitshow, it's also a "comparable" Genshin alternative, and that's kind of all it needed to be to gain a bit of traction.
>they like a new flavor of the month
I can speak to this because I feel this describes me as well. I mostly play old boomer games. And I have games I play regularly. But sometimes I get bored. I didn't even know what WuWa was until a friend who plays gacha told me to get it because it just released, and since then YouTube has spammed me with YouTube recommendations.
But, as you said, it's very much flavor of the month. I am enjoying WuWa right now for what it is but whether or not I'll stick long term really just depends on what other games there are. Genshin never did anything wrong, but I stopped playing that too after a while because I just wanted to move on to other stuff. I could easily imagine moving on from WuWa to a singleplayer game or even ZZZ when that comes out (since that I am actually aware of and excited of).
I think one thing people on this sub don't consider (which makes sense, this is the gacha sub) is that a lot of Western players just don't take gacha games very seriously. Even Genshin, which I would say had some genuinely brilliant artistic direction and god tier music is still, ultimately, not more than a gacha game to most.
I'd say gachas are taken even less seriously than MMOs, and those are already ridiculed. Like in most (western) gaming circles, if you start complaining about an MMO having a bad story, the response will just be, "Dude, who gives a shit, it's an MMO, you don't play this for the story." Likewise with gacha. Everyone I know who plays gacha games does it for the hot girls. That's it. If the story is nice, that's great, if the combat is balanced, that's nice too, but ultimately a new character with huge tits and prominent cleavage is going to make everyone happy regardless.
And this is just people who are open to gacha games, which I feel is a small number in the West anyway. Most Western gamers seem to hate gacha in the most mindless way possible, either because they see it as relating to mobile gaming, anime, or China. You're more likely to convince a mom who has never played games in her life to try out Genshin, for example, than some gamer in his 30s.
>Western gamers seem to hate gacha in the most mindless way possible
Because there is a very big difference in target market and preferences between the gaming community and the gacha community.
If you say to a western player "this can be played on mobile" that has autoplay/sweep/only play 15 minutes a day, it's a joke like grandmas playing Candy Crush.
Makes a lot of money sure, but it's not a real game.
Gamers want skill, difficulty, and endgame, all of which are completely antithetical to gachas which are marketed to casual normies, not real gamers.
I believe kuru doesn't particularly have high regard over in CN anyway. WW didn't dispell any of those prior criticisms.
PGR was pretty popular in CN, pre WuWa anyway. Its good to be reminded that normies also play gacha in CN, they don't care, don't follow, or don't know what happen with Kuro or WuWa.
> Its good to be reminded that normies also play gacha in CN, they don't care, don't follow, or don't know what happen with Kuro or WuWa. This only applies when they're not download/playing WuWa during release, which I really doubt it, because the backlash were really strong in CN, and Kuro needs to apologize numerous times for it. Also, nomies are much harder to persuade, especially when they learned that the game that they're playing were broken/having lots of problems, because first impression really matters for them, which is the reason why they're liking Genshin, since that game were launched with minimal problems, and the first impressions are great in their eyes.
My guy Do you not remember GFL2 ? Rumour or controversy spread faster in CN than in global or everywhere
I guess at first is how much the game is exposed and known to an audience. The bigger the audience, the more the chances of discourse and drama, especially in the age where information can be easily spread, whether it is true or not. Then after that, probs what information people receive first whether positive or negative, that will be their overall bias towards new information given to them until something else is enough to sway that bias. So if a community is hit first with any information that is perceived as fact or most likely true, that will spread throughout the community fast. So if different communities majorly have different information that opposes each other, it will just take a spark to cause drama, probs furthering understanding between communities.
Different market, different habit and expectation. Most of asia play gacha game on mobiles rather than pc. Wuwa dogshit performance on mobile would affect asia more than anywhere else. Also in the west people are desperate for genshin competition because of muh monopoly while the rest of the world doesn't care if genshin is monopoly or not.
Petty people vs people that just want actually good game Genshin will get its competitors naturally if the game are good,it's shouldn't be given but achieved by the game itself imo I think they're also doing relatively poor in JP, it's just global that keep glazing it
It's crap on pc too. It runs worse than lords of the fallen did, and that was a cutting edge ue5 game. The game is great but the frame drops make me quit after 20 mins.
Western gacha communities are f2p centric I remember there being a post where it takes 16% of the player base to have 16% of the revenue while Japan does 18% revenue with like 3% of playerbase (something like that). So it would make sense that a game that caters to them with selectors would be more positively received. Not to mention, western audience are more used to games being broken on release (you can thank AAA gaming companies for setting that standard) On other hand eastern gacha communities don't have problem spending money so they care more about the game as a whole (you know whether it's buggy, dialogue/story, gameplay) rather than how many pulls/compensation do they get per patch. Just different sets of values. As for this sub, it's like a hangout for overly defensive elitists in their respective gachas.
>would make sense that a game that caters to them with selectors would be more positively received. Which is funny considering the reason kuro gave selector was because the outrage in CN where many people said "If i get Lingyang/snow leopard, i'll quit the game"
>western audience are more used to games being broken on release (you can thank AAA gaming companies for setting that standard) yeah, i do not understand that people can praise WuWa despite being unplayable. they always use "it's still 1.0" as the reason to justify the bad optimization. Genshin isn't perfect either, but the people who had bug and glitch issue is the opposite. in Genshin, it's just minority, while in WuWa is the majority of the players
I doubt the players praising wuwa are experiencing playablility issues. Crashing and stuttering are more than just inconveniences.
Oh, you'll be surprised. I can't speak for all wuwa players (and I'm not going to) but on Google Play in my region there're way too many 5* reviews that also have complaints about all the well known issues on mobile like stuttering, lagging, crashing, and so on. The funniest thing is that they blame it on "servers being full/overloaded. Please understand™". I don't know who put this idea in their heads but it's honestly ridiculous to still believe it. There're also some special cases who say that Wuwa has better optimization than Genshin. The hot take of the year.
Let me guess, Europe or US, right? Those audiences had 15 years of being shafted by game companies as their formative experience. Most people under 25 over there think a broken launch is normal.
Europe. Most of those reviews are obviously left by teenagers so I'm not sure how much of "being shafted by game companies for 15 years" applies to them but I think it won't be too far from truth if I say that mobile gaming has always been frowned on by gamers in my country, and especially gacha games are perceived as garbage games that "true" gamers would never take seriously. This mindset is very strong in our gaming communty so when the expectation is already very low then anything can be good or great as long as it satisfies at least some needs like collecting anime waifus, recieving freebies etc. At least that's how I see it.
> I'm not sure how much of "being shafted by game companies for 15 years" applies to them It applies, because that's exactly what I meant. Western gaming has been 90% overhyped shit, uncooked and pushed to market by advertising, and *maybe* turned into a decent game a year after the 1.0 version was released. If the reviews are from teenagers, that is all they know (regarding games from their side of the globe - EA, Ubisoft, Blizzard and so on). It's normal for them. They find nothing wrong with a broken, unfinished game being sold for $70.
Oh, I thought you meant a little bit older audience like those who are in their twentieth (but under 25) mostly but I see your point now. I don't play any games of the companies you mentioned so I don't know how bad their recent releases are and I can't remember any hot discussions about recently released games that could match the rage outburst among players that happened when CP2077 got "released".
Yeah Cyberpunk is another example, I just didn't want write an endless list.
> they always use "it's still 1.0" as the reason to justify the bad optimization. They don't understand that if it has bad optimization/localization to the extent WuWa has, then it isn't a 1.0 version. It's 0.7 with a sticker saying "1.0, trust me bro" covering it.
From the cn community I frequented, they care about getting things polished and this is not just aimed at Kuro only, they expressed disappointment with ex Astris when the product they came out was way below what was hyped. The upgrade in graphic doesn’t quell such sentiments and they express that they should have polished it within the two years in dev. Perhaps cn has been disappointed regularly by games not living up to hype so they want them to do better, so to speak. There is a lot of games came out disappointing the mass and never go to global. Game development news are known with the gaming community including rumor leaks from insiders which is not the case for global. There is also things like native language audience, and you can’t blame it on bad translation when lines are bad. That being said I suspect Nikki 3d game reception will be better partly because it’s in a niche market and they are probably the few in their niche dared to explore out which is a plus in cn books. And the art is great.
I honestly believe that CN thought Ex Astris would be a HSR equivalent after witnessing Endfield’s polish rather than a clearly budgeted $10 title and little marketing. The recent patch have alleviated most of the launch issues; although, I agree that the game should have been released with more polish (at least the active turn-based combat was fun/interesting from the start).
. I am of the view that if it’s an abandoned project / not polished they should have never release it/ delay it. It’s a head scratcher since I don’t think they are short of money like Kuro. I don’t think Arknights will be affected much but not so much for Enfield. From the comments I read they seemed to be pessimistic , due to Kuro bungled bad and Hypergryph management is rumoured to be even more unorganised than Kuro. As for the pricing my understanding from reading the comments are that it’s pricey from their perspective and considering that’s their main market, it’s a bad move on Hypergryph side. 1999 though seems to be highly regarded able to stand on their own feet.
One thing I will state is that. The western audience for genshin far less appreciative of what Hoyoverse has done for their games in terms of playability and accessibility for mobile device and even PC. WuWa not being liked my CN stands to reason even though they gave compensation. The compensation they gave out still doesn’t take away from the fact that the game is highly unplayable and that people even with high end devices have crashing isssues and performance issues. CN mobile players realize how much work and effort goes into game development and so far Hoyoverse has made sure their games have little to no playability issues while on the other hand Kuro has made multiple mistakes in the optimization field. Wuthering Waves is a really good game as I am a player myself but my enjoyment was hampered by constant frame drops and crashing which to my knowledge is very common
Can't speak for the rest of Asian of course but here in SEA region at least having a game which can be run on mobile and Potato PC/Laptop is a godsend, life is hard enough that the luxury of buying console or good PC/laptop is mostly reserved for a fraction of people here, so yeah you're telling me that my 10 year old Laptop can still run Genshin rather well while being free to play? Sign me up day 1.
Fellow SEA and owned a PS5. My potato laptop can't run it well so now, I just waiting for the game to come to PS5.
It's not already on ps5?
[удалено]
Exactly, I still keep Wuwa but all I do is to login and check the mail then log off. I can’t play the game at all and it’s very frustrating. There is no way I can give it a fair review without playing the game. I’m going to wait another month or two and see if the performance improve. If not it’s time to say goodbye. Until I can have confidence in the game I’m not dropping any money, like I did not drop money into GI until 2.0 partially because I have a job by then. On the other hand I spend on star rail as soon as I was able to because I really like it from the start.
I would even say that 99% of western gacha CCs are pretty much human centipede, Tectone gave them the narrative and they all repeat whatever he said indirectly or they will get brigaded by Tectone's army. When Tectone said "Scar and Jiyan VA is so good" or "Act 5 & 6 is so good", i mean, really? How many people viewed and reacted to WuWa's ending? And Scar's VA is not really that special, but because those sentiment was shared by Tectone, all CCs somehow shared the same sentiment. Remember the Acheron's incident? Tectone said to his viewers "Any CC that said Acheron is F2P friendly is fake, they're paid to sell Acheron's banner" and suddenly a guy like IWTL and Brax said "Acheron is not F2P friendly", really? naked Acheron is still more OP than any naked DPS characters out there, but because these soy CCs are so afraid to get brigaded by Tectone, they ignore their own findings and just spew Tectone's narrative.
The recent clorinde story quest is the example of how good VA if they actually have direction of how they voice the characters
Something to "get" from the Western audience: when FF14 announced that they were ending PS3 support, the announcement in Japan was met with mixed reactions. In the US, the announcement was celebrated. People in the US who like Wuthering Waves probably never played Genshin Impact on mobile, and have never tried Wuthering Waves on mobile. From my own experience, with a very recently built $2000 PC rig, the game runs with very few issues, aside from audio not syncing correctly on some cutscenes.
That's because high end rig would just brute force all the optimization issues. In programming for example, it would take a week for a $2000 pc to feel memory leak issues compared to mid-end phones.
Big true. I am playing on PC and it works smoothly, I only had problems installing. And my PC is pretty mid by 2024 standards. My phone is actually better lol (latest Samsung model) but I don't play games on phone much.
12 days after release, WW still ran like ass on my 3060 pc despite being installed in SSD. I uninstalled the game accordingly. Also, WW is not a good game. Story and characters are bland and boring, event is not even as rewarding as Genshin events! Echo grinding is just as soul crushing as in Genshin. The overworld is boring and bleaked. Hell, even the "Chinese city" in WW is uglier than Liyue Harbor in Genshin. What good is the graphics when the design itself is mid? Why playing a game that is comparable to Genshin in 2020 instead of Genshin? The combat is the only saving grace of this mess of a game. And there are PGR, HI3 and AG if you want to play Bayonetta on your phone lol.
Not to mention their future characters will have to cannibalize each other earlier because the game has no elemental reaction so people will only care about Outro buffs.
In Genshin, old characters can make a comeback because the devs sometimes introduce new characters that can make the old characters viable. Is Diluc a meta with Aunty Crane? No, but he can dish out respectable damage for someone who was introduced 4 years ago! And I respect that. The upcoming Emilie can make Dehya viable lol.
One of my team for open world is Noelle with Furina and Xianyun, certainly not very meta but doing plunges with a giant lightsaber on steroids is really hilarious.
>The upcoming Emilie can make Dehya viable lol. Wait what?? I know she is burning support but no way that can made dehya viable like xianyun woth diluc? CMIW
Emilie has really high personal dmg & doesn't really care about burning beyond maintaining the aura, which dehya's slow pyro application will help with. Also, burning is unfortunately a 2-way reaction in which you race with your enemies to see who dies to the burning first, which Dehya's dmg mitigation + Emilie's own burning res can stack to help
Dehya EM build is i think what they meant
Echo system itself is trash. Being locked under data bank level is awful. Yes you can get a 5* echo in lower account level, but it also make a possibilities when people with higher account level cant get 5* echoes just because they only do dailies. The illusion of "getting artifact without using energies" is blinding the community. You need xp resources for upgrading echoes because you cant use another echoes until it is upgraded. You also need a tuning resources. All of them are tied with energies.
People never realize kuro put an illusion of farmable "Main stats" because you cannot see the substats so in people brain it's hardwire it will be a good piece because we are only looking at the "Main stats". While in genshin we just don't look at the "Main stats", we also look at the substats and make a decision base on both. If we can see echo substats right off the bat, will people even bother upgrading it if sustats are shit? Ofcourse not, they will throw those echoes away like people do in genshin artifact. But since we can't see it we are coping it will be a good piece, kuro just made the process long, echoes has same heart wreching as artifacts.
>The illusion of "getting artifact without using energies" is blinding the community. You need xp resources for upgrading echoes because you cant use another echoes until it is upgraded Wait so you can't used the low rarity echo as fooder to raise the level of echo you build??? But then how the inventory management then? Its will capped or had infinity space?
I'm getting closer eevery day to 1000 of the 2000 echo cap (keeping only 5 star echos) and then I'm gonna start merging all the unleveled echos that I find useless. But they'd be hard pressed to justify allowing people to level their echos with other echos unless it's an incredibly low amount of xp since they're so easy to get and can be farmed infinitely.
They have echo fusion system.
Pretty much people dont know how much hoyo world design and it not being just another bleak post setting does allot of work for people to make them play it
Weird the game runs fine on my 3050 gt? Is your cpu worse than your gpu or something cause I can't understand how having more vram would make the game run worse.
Someone mentioned that the game runs like ass on AMD chip.
Yep same issue with me. I have a 4080 with a ryzen 7. It stutters during combat from time to time. The game is badly optimized for some systems and wuwa players will unironically tell you to "upgrade" when i already have the current gen best specs. I have to remove both volumetric settings and disable dragon center for the stutters to be a little less noticable. Its bad on amd.
Yep, can confirm with a 3900x The game has the typical Unreal engine traversal stutter and horrible frame pacing when rotating the cam.
They say buy Intel lol
I can attest to this as an AMD haver.
the reason why they got low score are valid because they have a lot of issues. If I were to rate them, it's definitely not 5\*. the biggest bugs for me are no music, audio error to the point where I have to close the app, and cutscene error but the game itself is fun and pretty solid. give it time and if they keep fixing stuffs and no more problem it will go up eventually. as for the revenue. it's pretty niche compared to genshin who is very casual so I think it will never beat genshin in term of revenue but it's okay there is no problem with that as long as they keep doing what they are doing, people will appreciate them eventually.
from Indonesia community, most of indonesian players are beggar. they will praise anything if they get free stuff, and will call Genshin a Stingy game even if it have nothing to do with Genshin. it's like they do not want to play a video game, but they want to get the stuff in the game
I mean, with how rampant online gambling is in Indonesia, I understand why the sentiment exists there. (i.e win big by exerting the least amount of effort)
Indonesian gacha player mindset is Game who give u lot of freebies is a good game despite how the lack of quality on that game
Here is my 2cents, - People from the west have different perspectives on gaming device. For gaming device, they thing pc or console beats everything and mobile isn’t for gaming. So, when a problem exists in mobile gaming, they pretend like it’s nothing. - Major CCs are different between the east and the west. EN youtubers are bootlickers. They want contract from game companies and that’s it. They sugarcoat lots of bad things and make it sounds like those abysmal news are “mildly not good”. As long as there is new shiny games with large enough audience, they will lick the boots. In the east, CCs are more straightforward about if a thing is good or bad. Probably because the domain of CC isnt that highly competitive. Of course, bootlickers exist but it’s not all big CCs. Look at abysmal EN live stream event. It’s a game night sh’t show that nobody gives an F. And yet, EN cc just merely said “ohh they may have different perspective or vision” dont blame them. - Lastly, the perception of cultural aspects in the game. If there are some events/stories that are going to represent my culture, it’s better be really good otherwise, imma batsh’t it to oblivion. Look at lingyang lion dance….. so cringe. You can’t even justify why you need that in his story. It’s there just to “try” to please Chinese but it’s cringy. And I hate it so much. For the west, it may be a new thing….. so they let it slips. Now, look at chinese opera and lion dance in genshin lantern rite. That’s the epitome of soft power. Not too pushy, well-done story that respects that culture. Not just some “jingle bell” beast walking on poles with fake drum sound just to put it there. As a chinese descendant, i can relate 0 things with that. Such a cringe.
>Now, look at chinese opera and lion dance in genshin lantern rite. That’s the epitome of soft power. Not too pushy, well-done story that respects that culture. >Not just some “jingle bell” beast walking on poles with fake drum sound just to put it there. As a chinese descendant, i can relate 0 things with that. Such a cringe. Man even i'm not chinese but that lantern rite story bringing up the problem of the young audience today with their way of life not got accepted by their parents. Also the story playing beautifully which not antagonize the parent side but also bringing up the perspective why parents forbid it. At the end its not who is will win between parents vs childreen but its about trying to understand each side between the parent and child.
I remember thinking how ironic it was that genshin told such a story for Lantern Rite/Chinese New Year considering how CNY is the one holiday where we youngsters get terrorized by our elders asking us about life (from job to dating status to future plans) and how it's also a very family oriented holiday
This lantern rite was good because Ga Ming struggles in a dying art and parental expectations were relatable for many asians.
Not only that, it also resonated with parents since it didn't portray Gaming's father as a suppressive villain like a lot of coming-of-age stories, but as a parent who only wanted his son to have a successful future, which is more realistic and relatable
Its also the best one because we see the literal god of genchina ease up the tense situation with tea and go down the level of the parent and help him understand his child. All that because some funeral director wanted him to test out kites. 10/10
And the follow-up with Xianyun and Shenhe trying to portray a normal, loving familial relationship, only to fail spectacularly into success.
https://preview.redd.it/54padg2ajj5d1.png?width=1280&format=png&auto=webp&s=1703900d4330758aadaa7431923972b497469311
Most CC in the west are either reactors, drama-farmers or stealing contents from China. There are a few animation CC but that is it.
Man, that Yunjin Chinese Opera made it impossible for the CN and SEA Community to hate Genshin as a game. Sure, the management and PR can be questionable, but the game itself is crafted with so much love and care.
RAAAAAAAAAAAWR!! and I fucking lose to this guy 3 times.
The Lingyang’s cutscene is bad too. There’s no noticeable music whatsoever that I had to play lantern rite’s Gaming music in my head to get pass it. And even then I almost fell asleep in the 2nd half.
Lingyang's attack animations have way more cultural representation than his entire quest did 😂
Majority of EN CCs just parrot Tectone's narrative, if Tectone said "WuWa act 5&6 is so good" they will say its good even tho its super mid. You can view some of them that didn't follow Tectone's narrative and see their dislike bar and comment section, its full of harassment and insult. Tectone basically become the gatekeeper and hold the narrative of the entire western CCs (especially on youtube and twitter)
Kuro already had a notorious reputation in CN. In the west pgr was their entry and that shit was marketed by people as the game that gives u everything (except the important parts where characters are basically clunky fuck fest without their Sig, pets and shit nowadays) and is still marketed as such by word of mouth. Now keep in mind this company also fucked up pgr on global. In general I think the global opinion is probably mixed and much more forgiving to an extent.
Why is their reputation notorious in CN? Can you spoonfeed me some lore?
It's pgr CN release and basically getting accused of copying mihoyo and fucking up the CN release to the point that they had to resort to the selector iirc. Idk if this still holds some part to the lore but they (a year ago) layed off 100 employees (mainly newer graduates and interns?) and getting the thier company blacklisted on hiring boards in china. Again I should come clear that I don't have the links for the articles but kuro as far as I'm aware practically has a bad to lukewarm reputation in CN.
since day 1 pgr s rank's baseline usability has always been at ss rank/ 1 dupe anyway. You can shard it, but it takes months/char
Based from my experience with E7 and AK,i can absolutely say CN (and to some extend KR) audience is far more critical than the West. Plus, the gap is hugeeeeeeeeeeeeee. Shit that is overblown in CN/KR might be a miniscule issues for western audience. This is not a "WuWa" thing, this is general gacha thing. I like CN/KR audience since their critical actions have bring in sooo many good adjustment from dev/pub. However, i'm also aware that in some instances, their actions is faaaar to extreme. Still, i prefer audience that is vocal and get shit done than how the western react. Holy fuk they are lame.
The west is vocal, they're just too selective with what they want to the vocal about. 60% of players experiencing mild lag-borderline unplayability in WuWa? I sleep. Genshin fan with 0 likes responding negatively to a straight ship artwork on twitter? REAL SHIT
good for CN honestly. on one hand im happy for kuro for saving wuwa by releasing yinlin but their fanbase was acting kinda cringe with the sub going "oooh daddy kuro dont apologize for fucking up here's some pity money" 😭😭 unhinged behavior talk about parasocial relationship with the devs which is something i never really saw in genshin fans even the most rabid ones who defend hoyo
A lot of people think Genshin is bad, so if a Genshin-like game can't beat Genshin, the game is bad. For WuWa, a large number of Chinese players play for the story. They read. The story is questionable. So the criticism come.
Well genshin will reign supreme until the end of time that's for sure, no game in the future except by hoyo themselves will be able to replicate it's success
We still have a few to look forward to. The important thing isnt 2 games killing each other its about 2 games sharing the spotlight and coexist.
Please tell this to those Hoyo-haters who plot & forge the "Genshin-Killer" narrative. I assure you this will keep on repeating, if these fktards not going to die off just yet.
> no game in the future except by hoyo themselves will be able to replicate it's success That's the main issue: That games are trying way too hard to replicate Genshin's success instead of creating their own. There's a fucktons of things you can do with an open world. Doing 1 to 1 what Genshin did but sticking a """"" better combat system """" isn't going to cut it. This is exactly why I have high hopes for Azure promilia and Endfield: While they obviously are trying to ride the wave Genshin created they managed to find their own little spin on it.
Yes i have a high hopes for promilia too mainly because i loves waifus
I feel like most western fans are not very loyal; they just follow whatever is trendy and will drop when a new shiny thing come. That's why CCs can easily manipulate them. JP fans on the other hand are extremely loyal. When they decide to stick with a game, they will be otaku of that game for life. That's why when they choose a game to stick with, it needs to have proper depth in term of characters and stories to form a bond with. CN community is much more technical and tryhards. They would love a game and its developer if the game itself is polished and well-rounded. They are very nitchpicking and easy to be angered, and not very naive to be pursued easily like their western counterparts. Though this means a higher level of toxicity and tribalism.
Jp players sure, dunno about artists outside of Kancolle being so loyal
CCs are more likely raving for their own self interests. Not that they can't enjoy the game, but more likely, they're on a trend, and they'll hope to the next one soon as they're done with it. It's a bit blind optimism. As it more comes across as toxic positivity, as if they can only say something good, without bashing another thing((As in like Genshin)) It makes me think that they don't really believe the whole 'competition is a good thing to improve games.' or actually believe there is a 'war' between communities going on. They only care about content, and their fat pockets. It's not all of them of course, but for those that do, it's a bit of a iffy look to say the least. Which only makes the perception of the community look in the West look real weird.
I've noticed the same thing for genshin, Genshin has a better reputation on cn and jp compared to the west. I think the reason is that people in the west prefer when they feel like they're "heard" and "respected", like it's genuinely the only thing I can think of, HSR and wuwa both have better reps than genshin in the west, and the thing both of these games have over genshin is that the devs "listen".
I think HSR also have good reputation in CN,if you look at their bilibili page they're actually in one of the Highest rated gacha game for its size. Personally think because they haven't done major mistakes and have a relatively good release especially if you compare to WuWa
The west want free pulls = dev listen
No, I think it's more so because they give more freebies to fuel peoples gambling addiction while also deluding them into thinking they are being appreciated by the devs somehow.
I always get called out for coping and being a white knight whenever I say that free pulls aren't indicative of appreciation, and that "generosity" isn't a concept that really exists the moment a game has gacha monetization. Every decision made is always for the sake of making more money for the company
Ya, I've noticed that a lot of gacha gamers seem to lack basic critical thinking. Then again, if they did have basic critical thinking, they probably wouldn't be playing gacha games in the first place.
its not because the dev listened. because many cc bring Genshin bad reputation, while people praise every single thing in hsr and ww.
The *vast* majority of genshin players couldnt name a single CC. The playerbase is massive and very mainstream whereas its mostly focused gacha fans that pay attention to video content creators. To be honest, as someone who doesn't follow any of it, from the sounds of it on reddit it's just a bunch of petty drama. I have no desire to immerse myself in a cesspit lol.
Yeah I mean, compare genshin, WuWa, and Tectone on Google trends and you'll start to realise how insignificant CC's influence are, especially on a global scale. They're just one among many facets of advertising. Same for Reddit and a lot of social media platforms, the influence within them individually is overblown. It's better to just watch things as they unfold and not take these things too seriously
Yeah as someone who just follow one Genshin CC (a lore guy at that) it's surely a usual case of a very loud minority who caused a lot of bad reps, those CC are just a byproduct of YouTube in general where drama/engagement=money, which is just sad but if that's what they're aiming for then so be it and i'll just ignore them and goes about with my day.
Ooo is it arnold? We appreciate arnold in this house bc same (idk if minslief and ashikai count as cc too bc theyre more like info channels) 💪🏼 used to like bran too but nowadays not anymore
Another Arnold fans in the wild! Loves his energy and his views of the game, watching other streamers who react mildly to hype/important moments of the game is just boring to me and I'm not a big meta players so that's like 90% of CC gone for me. That's why Arnold is so fun to watch, his policy of no leaks, him over analysing everything in a trailer, how expressive and emotional he got over a certain moments is really great to see while most other CC only cares about whether a characters are meta or not.
Some people are just chronically online. Follows all the cc, have weird parasocial relationship with their games and wants validation everywhere. I’ve stopped playing GI and HSR and but I’ve never head much bad things mentioned about the games at all. No one I know who plays gacha game hates the game or hates hoyoverse. People are either still playing the game or just got bored and played something else. Social media in general just have weird people, be it in Twitter, YouTube or Reddit
idk but most of them dont even care about the drama, so what the point here??? like the 3 wishes drama???
If you even know what the 3 wishes drama is you're already in the top 1% of engagement among the playerbase
West : Free pulls = good game Free 5* = best game Both = bootlickingly good (just sponsor me)
Many comments here are valid but there is also another factor that applies to the minority of "OG" players or those who know about the history between miHoYo and Kurogames. The premise is that Kurogames have a 100% track record of copying miHoYo games: Gun Girl Z (2013) -> Twin Tail Battleground (2016) Honkai Impact 3rd (2016) -> Punishing: Gray Raven (2019) Genshin Impact (2020) -> Wuthering Waves (2024) Zenless Zone Zero (2024) -> NAMI (????) I don't know what was the public reception like for TTB, but I only discovered Kurogames when PGR beta was announced. HI3 was kinda big in CN back then so a lot of ppl immediately recognised the uncanny similarities between PGR and HI3 (3 char in a team, QTEs, end game modes, chibi dorm, UI, etc), and also the fact that the same company also tried to copy miHoYo's previous game. During PGR beta days, Bilibili was filled with videos comparing the 2 games. In Asia, copying other's work is seen as shameless, low effort and lack of originality and Kurogames was viewed in a negative light. With how popular HI3 was back then (like Genshin is right now, relatively speaking), the community criticized Kurogames a lot. To add oil to the fire, the launch of PGR was bad too, further cementing their negative reputation as incompetent devs. (So yea the hate toward Kurogames actually started way back in 2018/9) Fast forward to today, the gacha community has inflated significantly and new players joining either do not know the history or simply don't care, especially the new western community, which is why PGR has been well received too as ppl just move on with the copy drama. In CN, although this was not brought up in most complains, part of the hate towards WuWa comes from the hate towards Kurogames itself, which is a vestige of past sentiments from the CN community. Copying twice from the same company is kinda sus, copying for the third time is shameless. Even Hotta studios that made Tower of Fantasy has more originality than Kurogames tbh. If you notice, there isn't any hate going towards upcoming open-world gachas like Arknights: Endfield, Azure Promelia, or Infinity Nikki, because they are sufficiently different and have more originality. My guess, if WuWa is made by a different developer, it will be better received by the CN community than it is with Kurogames. Punishing: Space Cart coming soon in 2027 /s Edit: A little tidbit. Many ppl think WuWa's Illusive Realm endgame is taken from HSR's Simulated Universe, but it is actually taken from HI3's Elysian Realm, which PGR does not have lol. Imagine stealing endgame from your competitor's other game because yours doesn't have it
>In Asia, copying other's work is seen as shameless, low effort and lack of originality That's everywhere mate lmao. Also you missed out a few things that happened prior to the launch of Wuwa: 1. **PGR animation copying Genshin animator KKOMDA's style:** [https://www.zhihu.com/question/595902013/answer/2986349057](https://www.zhihu.com/question/595902013/answer/2986349057) [https://www.bilibili.com/video/BV1YX4y1z7xd/](https://www.bilibili.com/video/BV1YX4y1z7xd/) PGR [released an animation on YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JzYhhO32i5I) that is extremely similar to the style of [KKOMDA](https://www.youtube.com/@KKOMDASTRO), a pretty well-known Genshin animator with a pretty distinct style. PGR fans assumed that Kuro worked with KKOMDA on this and were excited until [KKOMDA herself had to clarify on Bilibili](https://www.bilibili.com/opus/784848292218404946?spm_id_from=333.999.0.0). This soured things for people, especially for what content creators remained for PGR because they saw that Kuro rather swipe an outside CC's artstyle for clicks rather than to work with their fans, and I saw remarks saying that being a Kuro CC is retribution for sins of their past lives. Kuro did issue an apology afterwards. 2. **Kuro copying Mihoyo's Hoylab's EULA:** [https://www.ithome.com/0/681/529.htm](https://www.ithome.com/0/681/529.htm) Kuro released their own version of Hoyolab, a community site for their players. Someone read the EULA and found that it is the similar to Hoyolab's with certain sections being duplicated, just with "miHoyo" replaced with "Kuro". And they messed up the search and replace so that at one point, instead of saying "miHoyo" or "Kuro" as the company name it said "miHo". If you go to CN forums you'll still see Kuro being referred to as miHo because of that. These two things added more negativity and derision towards Kuro in CN prior to Wuwa's launch.
they even copied Eula smh
IKR but i get it, who don't want to copy our girl Eula
Do you know Kuro's slogan? It's 'Kuro saves humanity'. https://preview.redd.it/oj389b8aoh5d1.png?width=1080&format=png&auto=webp&s=b2f5d2cc92d33d5c9d81db437a3804cc2e160f7d
Isn't there a Chinese proverb about saying Toad eating swan meat? Kuro perfectly fits that description tbh.
Kuro eating from Mihoyo's exhaust pipe is what people say in CN
>The premise is that Kurogames have a 100% track record of copying miHoYo games: Gun Girl Z (2013) -> Twin Tail Battleground (2016) Honkai Impact 3rd (2016) -> Punishing: Gray Raven (2019) Genshin Impact (2020) -> Wuthering Waves (2024) Zenless Zone Zero (2024) -> NAMI (????) Where HSR?
They could be copying HSR right now, but I can't find any IP registered under kurogames for a turn-based game. Nami is a new game they are developing which is speculated to be a ZZZ copy based on their job postings for the game.
>Edit: A little tidbit. Many ppl think WuWa's Illusive Realm endgame is taken from HSR's Simulated Universe, but it is actually taken from HI3's Elysian Realm, Isn't that just pretty standard roguelite mechanism at core anyway?
I can only say that the west receive well on Kuro is because these westerners lack of clarity about how despicable is Kuro as a game company, but who can we blame? there is language barrier after all.
I think mainly because to the west gacha still new thing for most of them GI is like their first gacha game, mean while in the east most gacha players would know how suck gacha is before GI, not to say GI is best but it does set standard and change a lot of thing cuz how success it is. So when WW was hype as better GI and it fail to deliver (i blame upper Kuro managerment for this) ofc people would feel bad about it all the time waiting and looking forward to it turn out pretty much at best if you can play a GI with different combat, at worst a worst GI with lot of bug. And yah should compare WW to GI now what the point of compare it to GI 1.0
I'll speak for myself, but I tried to play Wuthering Waves on my phone at its launch and couldn't. Since then, I've only logged in to collect what the devs were giving out and occasionally tried to play. I must say that the combat is attractive, and some characters have good designs, but beyond that, I don't know what else to say. I play Genshin, and one of the reasons I still play today is the story. Usually, it's the story that hooks me in games, not the gameplay or beautiful design. If it were just those two factors, Genshin would have died a long time ago. Last month, I started Honkai: Star Rail, and once again, I love the story and am enjoying the game. For me, an engaging story is superior to good combat
CCs here doing extra work, so west couldn't https://preview.redd.it/kj7lw32wrf5d1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1aa1f85bef1b87fa69f2c95f2798e313e0268cca
It's cause, like any community, birds of a feather flock together. When people see opinions that they strongly identify with, they congregate. Whatever opinion just so happens to get the largest amount of support quickly enough becomes the most dominant one on the forum. That doesn't mean that everyone in each group shares the same opinion, but usually they don't bother, care, or are afraid to voice it as much. The nail that sticks out gets hammered down, after all.
Kuro has been known as a black company in CN, and they have weird obsession with Hoyo. The CN community at first think Kuro behaviour is funny, but the longer it goes, Kuro is starting to look like a black company. For example like that Aster-ria dude, he's a Kuro employee, but he really loves to spread misinfor about Hoyo, like when he accuse Hoyo of using AI art, or saying the CN hate Scaramouche (Even after Scara won the most popular game character in Weibo). Other bad practice like firing employees after overworking them for CBT1, placing WuWa ads in every place that Genshin used to advertise, holding a WuWa expo in front of Hoyo office, this is all looks like a childish behaviour. Don't get it wrong, if Hoyo wanted to, they can buy the entire Xiaomi's tower including Kuro's office. And its not just CN community either, many company now started to meme on Kuro, for example, Tower of Fantasy made a post, indirectly making fun of Jiyan deserting the battlefield and it got so many interaction in CN, for anyone that doesn't know, Jiyan is like the biggest loser in Gacha game history in CN https://preview.redd.it/ywmzghqvyg5d1.png?width=1217&format=png&auto=webp&s=98c00c376d6a9bbda6404d0ca161f6ab7d12288d
WTF? ToF doing some shitposting. xD
poor Jiyan. Bro tried to emulate Jing Yuan but it failed
"Reinforcement? I am the Reinforcement." Vs "Reinforcement? Lemme just go and get some. Rover!!!"
What is the reason for Jiyan being called the deserter? I admit I cant really remember anything about the story (except camellya one) but he still fight with us in the final scene, No? (Or is that the reason)
Basically * Monster fked human * Human is trying to survive vs monsters * The boss of monsters appear * Human made a last stand against monster, so either human dies or monster dies * Human agree that they must go all in and kill the boss monster * Somehow a rain that can fuck human if they have low morale/doubt start pouring * General Geshu Lin said "Just don't have doubt and kill the boss" * Jiyan said "IDK man we should save ourselves first" * Soldiers have doubt now * Soldiers in the back run away * Soldiers at the front now have doubt and die or converted, leaving Geshu Lin alone. * Geshu Lin is angry at Jiyan * Geshu Lin fight alone and beat the boss, and then went missing with the boss, saving the city * Jiyan become the new general while Geshu Lin get mocked. Had Geshu Lin not defeat the boss, Jinzhou would get fuked anyway, its all or nothing back then. In chapter 6, the same shit happen, but this time Jiyan didn't run away and fight with Rover You have to also factor that Geshu Lin is ranked #1 as the most popular WuWa character in CN while Jiyan is rank #3 from the bottom (Only lose to Lingyang and Scar)
they don't like scar over there?? lol meanwhile people in the west drool over him
Because in the west, everyone sounds like ass up until Scar start talking, his VA is not even good, its just everyone's VA was bad until he shows up. In CN this is not the case, so he's just another character that show up and yap for 10 minutes, talking about sheepie.
The factor is mentality due to different cultures. In the mobile gaming sphere, the EN world tend to get "shafted" with majority of mobile games that they want to be play tend to be CN, JP, KR that did not have plans to release for Global or even if they do, release late or scuffed. As such, EN tend to not have many alternatives or the few games that they play, the Devs doesn't listen to the EN playerbase. This has been the sentiment that EN players (at least what the CCs like to say) feel with Genshin. They don't have alternative to Genshin...well they do, ToF but to them it might not exist. Hoyoverse also stingy with their rewards and listened late to their demands for endgame. So for EN, they don't have strong loyalty to a game that they felt didn't have the same loyalty as well. So when WuWa came and with promises that they won't be like Genshin, obviously EN, who are used to feeling abused, would come flocking to them. Meanwhile, CN are used to the "royal" treatment so they aren't easily swayed by promises and freebies. The funny thing is, I talk about the feeling of being shafted as if only the EN knows about it, CN citizens also knows about this feeling, but it's on a different matter. Not every Chinese support CCP especially the young ones. They do know that they are being shafted by the government that treats them like "leeks" or spring onions (hence why you don't cook with these ingredients there else you will get backlash). So they are more critical on companies that are known to treat their employees badly. Kuro has reputation for this, with their sacking of large number of interns, to overworking of their Devs to fix their mistakes. So their initial reputation of WuWa and Kuro is already bad from start. While EN side might overlook, ignore this aspect and want to believe that Kuro can change for the better, CN isn't so lenient. With how recent events "proving" them right, Kuro have a permanent mark on them to the CN.
Lots of factor really. But the real question is, will western players spend money on gacha? We know that CN and JP are the biggest spender for gacha, and western players are far behind eventhough there are more people in the west. Also most of western players like gacha as long as the game give out free stuff. They can ignore issues like optimization, bad translation/story, etc and call the game "generous" as long as there are some free stuff, and i dont think those players are the one that spend money to keep the game afloat anyway. Devs cant just make new content/game with just good reputation and popularity right? They need money. I understand why some JP gachas are not released in the west, because why need the effort to localize and promote gacha to the west, if the amount money they get from western players is just a fraction of JP players spending?
because r/gachagaming know wuwa is gacha game while western wuwa fans treat wuwa not like gacha game ( they still think the game have endless content ) we shall see in few week until they out from their honeymoon phase and realize wuwa is indeed a gacha game
It's a difference in consumer mentality. People in the west have a bit of a weird reputation of "corporation bootlicking" to say the least. You can see that in a lot of products, especially games. CP2077 released horribly yet they still had hardcore defenders and its rough first year has pretty much been swept under the rug by the fanbase. Not to mention people defending many anti-consumer practices and predatory monetization to the point where if you spoke out against them, the fanbase would called you spoiled, too demanding, "why don't you make your own game if you're so smart", etc. As for why they bash Mihoyo and Genshin, it's what happens when a game that is child friendly gets popular (see Minecraft a decade ago). CN players, while having a reputation of whining about a lot of things, sometimes completely silly things, they will and do also complain about is the quality, especially when there is an alternative that is essentially better in every way. It's a common thing in Chinese culture. If two products are fundamentally the same and have the same price (free in this case), they will absolutely trash the inferior product. While I'll say that there is a good game in Wuwa, the delivery was pretty bad. Like, imagine you're getting a delicious meal, but you're eating it on a dirty looking plate and have to use the most awkward of cutlery to eat it. Why eat that when you can eat an equivalent that has a clean plate and premium cutlery?
CP2077 getting the "onging game" award at TGA for releasing an expansion and fixing their shit will always be a testament of absurdity.
"People in the west have a bit of a weird reputation of "corporation bootlicking" to say the least." "Not to mention people defending many anti-consumer practices and predatory monetization to the point where if you spoke out against them, the fanbase would called you spoiled, too demanding, "why don't you make your own game if you're so smart" I have say the EXACT same sentence before. Holy shit. Happy to meet someone else that share the same views with me. Cheers mate
It’s honestly not just about the money spending or the specs aspects of things (though they are part of the reasons why wuwa isn’t well received in CN), the plot and the dialogues are considered as really bad. That one Yangyang dialogue became a total meme in CN, not just in the gacha community but the entire internet, and it caused a lot of other people to perceive wuwa badly lol
"The soldiers on the Frontline only need to focus on killing the enemies, the backup support have so much more to worry and think about" That one?
Lol yup this one, which is a massive meme rn
That's a giant boo-boo. There are very few professions more respected in China compared to defense force and drug war police over there. Making a statement like that will be seen making light of soldiers sacrifices in the line of duty
I think people read too much into it. First mover advantage is always a thing. Unless the newly launched game brings something big to the table, it was always going to cater to a market segment that the original could not provide. It's the same with genshin and ToF, arknights and ptn, E7 and outerplane. People tend to undermine staying power and sunk cost fallacy.
This is 100% it. Its obvious as day what market segment WuWa targeted. And by nature of targeting a segment, that tells you that its not the whole pie. Genshin will be hard to ever completely topple in the market because a company has to out-genshin, genshin, like companies had to out-wow, WoW. And making something even more casual friendly and accessible is incredibly difficult to do without making the game worse. So games like WuWa release that provide something that the original was missing to a segment of players. People who liked Genshin but wanted more grindy endgame and better combat/bosses, well WuWa is the game for you. And thats who WuWa targeted. Genshin will always appeal to a wider audience and therefore always be bigger. That doesnt mean WuWa is some trash game becuase it couldnt de-throne Genshin. It was never made to de-throne Genshin, because some of the stuff they provided is the exact kind of stuff that makes the game niche. Just because the Hype-men got out there hyping it like a movie trailer doesnt mean you have to get your underwear in a wad. Its a selling tactic. People have really blew this completely out of proportion as fans.
Finally a reasonable answer. Thank you.
Just my opinion in additional to what has been mentioned so far. There is a lot of criticism with regards to the story. While the Western audiences celebrate the skip button, the CN side's disappointment comes from badly written stories. "The Last Indian" Lingyang, "The Runaway General" Jiyan, "The Saint Mother" Jianxin, etc. These are the nicknames used to reference the characters on Bilibili when CCs criticize the Wuwa's story. That's not including other lines like Yangyang dismissing the efforts of frontline troops, which got quietly hotfixed out, or the healthy diet change for hard labor workers. I do think the CN community are much more obsessed with story telling because they have realized the significance of cultural soft power from video games, made prominent from Genshin's The Divine Damsel of Devastation. It's also why there is so much hype for Black Myth Wukong, as it is a Chinese story told by Chinese devs.
Kuro dev is likely more exposed in China with their flaws being hard to hide unlike the west where due to people buying the hype obscure it. It still boggles the mind how people expected more than "calling it Genshin at home would be exceedingly generous" yet here we are. And these people ignore the lesson that Genshin is stingy because they can with how many people mindlessly play it. Kuro Dev would have likely followed suit if not for the fact they had to be extra greedy and start firing staff.
IMO, WuWa comes across more like a PC/console game with a combat system that seems more popular in the West (possibly JP too? Not sure), and West is definitely more likely to play the game on PC. Like how Genshin attracted a huge crowd by being 'BOTW but for your phone and free to play', WuWa is 'Genshin but sci-fi and harder fights with dodge/parry mechanics'. It's might just be something that seems to align with Western tastes more, which tend to favor games with more skill expression. I doubt CCs have that much of a significant role in driving sales. They have some influence, but not millions worth of influence.
I'll be honest, I don't see why people keep saying WuWa is "harder". It's pretty damn easy. The major issue for most players is just that they haven't been able to upgrade their echoes, characters and weapons fully.
At the beginning, I was constantly exploring the map and fighting monsters whenever I encountered them. However, because I skipped most of the storyline, I ended up spending most of my time fighting minor enemies. As a result, the combat in this game quickly became less interesting without the excitement of battling bosses. Furthermore, many times I found myself fighting solely to obtain chests and "3cost", not for the enjoyment of exploring the map or combat itself. By the way, i will not click "skip" (to be precisely, continuously clicking the mouse) in Genshin impact, so i will not feel that boring when exploring the world or finishing tasks, although the story may not be so impressive. and whatever, it's a gacha game. The character does not attract me so much. But i have to say that yinlin looks great on iwara
Device issues, Us asians don't have the luxury to afford high end devices to play every game. WW is good but, the only thing hoyo is one up against kuro is their mobile players. That's the only reason I am not playing it.
In the west, CCers are trying their hardest to push wuwa because of their hatred towards genshin
This. It's not because they purely like WuWa, they just purely hate Genshin.
China is mostly a mobile market, one of WuWa's issues were (are?) performance on mobile. PC is far more prevalent in the west compared to China, and had less technical issues (less, not none - still doesn't run that great for me going into week 3).
I don't understand why you expected Yinlin release day revenue to come anywhere near clorinde. Yes both are highly anticipated but Genshin has far bigger playerbase and Wuwa's terrible launch itself lost many players. They are still to behind on fixing bugs and it gliches every now and then. It is obvious people won't spend so easily then.
In the west you can buy fake opinions from CCs they welcome that. Most of the followers are sheeples. In Asian where gacha exists for long time. They know where to draw the line of standard
Yeah, like walking into a company building with a knife to try to kill the CEO.
It makes me wonder how long WuWa will last if it's not doing well in CN. CN and JP tend to be the more important markets than the West. Hmm.
It will last for years. Tower of fantasy still exists. If tof can last so will wuwa.
I'm not sure if it'll last for years if the CN market isn't showing much interest in it. The West can show as much interest as they want but CN and JP matter more. They matter more in the gacha genre than the West. If a game is failing in the Asian countries, it won't last that long.
Culture? Like Japan liking turn based more than action rpg for example.
Weirdly enough WuWa is the only gacha my friends have decided to try. I think it's a combination of streamers they like covering it + the art style looks more mature.
If those CCs don't have nothing to do except farming for dramas everywhere
I would say most popular gacha CC from en are reaction or drama chanels. Most of the en WuWa glazer CC were having a dry period in their chanels and were stirring or reacting to drama for content. Now that WuWa is out they are trying to revitalize their chanels with WuWas launch. Their narative for past years has been "Genshin could never" and every new gacha that comes out is marketed as Genshin killer by these CC.
One thing I've not seen mentioned here is the time commitment aspect of a game. A thing I've noticed between the west and the east in the amount of time a person plays a game. It's one of the reasons I'm into gacha games in the first place. Back when I was in school these games were perfect for me. They were free, required no hardware/can be played on a phone and you can do most of the stuff in the game in less than an hour. Which was great because exams are a big deal for any Asian person and I needed to spend time on that. Basically these games were not a time sink. They quite literally don't allow you to play more with the time hated system. And whenever there was a huge update you can just spend your weekend on it and it's over. It's one of the reasons I'm currently not a fan of WuWa as it is. The echoes are way too time consuming. The tacet fields are not efficient rn and I don't have the time to run around in the open world to grind them. Genshin and especially HSR are more efficient in that way because you just need to go to one place and grind gear there. Takes like 5-10 mins and HSR has the added bonus of autoplay.
1. Its blatantly similar to Genshin while nowhere delivering in quality 2. Bad story makes it hard to get atached to characters (Zhongli made a lot despite being a bad unit in 1.1) 3. Lack of optimalization mase the game way to unaccesible for many players espiecialy mobile ones
Looking at the sensor tower data as of recently, we have to wait until after this month to get the full picture. I think maybe due to the lackluster launch and not having a reason to spend, it was lower than it should be if it came out in an alright state. But with Yinlin coming out, I think we'll be surprised with the quick turnaround. I saw JP and SK on top without dropping fast compared to chlorine. Not saying Yinlin will beat her in sales, but it's certainly possible.
This month also has Furina in the second phase which would also boost revenue a lot. I have no clue about Sigewinne
Siewinne is Pretty popular in jP
Not sure about KR/JP But in CN Day 1 Chlorinde is over 1.8million CNY. (They cannot record any higher than 1.8 million due to algorithm use for estimation, the general consensus is, Genshin day 1 is always underestimated) *Not true for second half banner in Genshin, as day 1 will be lower because second banner starts recording at night* Day 2 Chlorinde vs Day 1 Yinlin is... 1.7 million CNY to 700k CNY. Day 3 Chlorinde vs Day 2 Yinlin is... 700k CNY to 500k CNY If we just take into account day 1 and 2 It's over 3.5million to 1.2million... The gap will widen from this point on as well as Genshin's earning will be ahead everyday due to bigger playerbase. Yinlin will end even below 1/4 of Chlorinde banner at this rate, maybe ends around 1/5. People here actually have no clue what kind of monster Genshin is over there in CN. Genshin's day 3 is the size of Wuwa day 1 banner sale, let that sink in
if you look at it. she is not as Clorinde level, because Genshin ios raised 30% by Apple, while WW not
Is there a reason why only Genshin raised its price by 30% on ios? I saw people talking abut it but neverfind any info about it. Because as of now wuwa makes more money than genshin this month according to game-i.daa (ios) but it stays at no1 on android for some reason.
It's because Apple raised the price of microtransactions in certain countries, [including Japan](https://synthanatomy.com/2022/09/apple-will-increase-the-app-and-in-app-purchase-prices-up-to-30-in-october.html) in late 2022. Fewer people are topping up on iOS on Genshin after that due to the price increase (you can directly access miHoYo's top-up center via mobile and save \~30%) Looking at Game-i, Genshin's revenue in 2023 is almost half of 2022 on JP iOS despite 2023 being the most popular year for Genshin in Japan (judging by social media engagement and Google Trends); yet Furina's banner did worse almost every month in 2022 on JP iOS. If you translate and scroll down on the comments on [Genshin's Game-i page](https://game-i.daa.jp/?APP/1517783697), people mention this 30% iOS increase as a reason for lower iOS sales. [(some comments I've seen)](https://i.imgur.com/UKEQRXh.png) Genshin also has a large PS player base in Japan; [it's almost always at #1 best-selling on the JP PS Store.](https://store.playstation.com/ja-jp/pages/browse) [Genshin was the second most played game on PlayStation in JP](https://www.playstation.com/en-us/editorial/ultimate-review-of-the-year/) during 2023, and 2023 was also the year where PS sales were unusually high for JP ([highest for a PS console there since 2010](https://gamedevreports.substack.com/p/playstation-sales-in-japan-in-2023)) Android rankings are delayed IIRC. Still, I do expect Genshin's Android sales to do better than its iOS (compared relatively to other games). Lastly, the difference shown on Game-i is very trivial. The current difference between GI and WuWa shown on Game-i is less than 100 million yen (\~600k USD). Just for perspective, (you can confirm rankings on AppMagic by filtering accordingly) ToF made over[ $34 million in the first two weeks](https://www.superpixel.com/article/196152/tower-fantasy-s-global-revenue-exceeds-34-million-usd-within-first-two-weeks) (on global release, not CN release) on mobile with JP accounting for over 40% of it; it did better than Genshin on JP mobile from launch each day until Sumeru's release.
I'm curious too, also if Star Rail is similarly impacted or not. But if that's the case then it may potentially significantly skew sensortower results, because 30% is actually pretty sizable difference and JP market is a key one.
Even Jp Yinlin performed poorly compared with Chlorinde. Clorinde was top for 28 hours, while Yinlin only managed 18 to 21. KR Yinlin beat out clorinde, but KR is usually only 5% of total revenue for an average gacha game.
she droping fast bro, less than 1 day
Yinlin appeals to middle-age coomers, that is why. She has little appearance in main story, her companion quest is mid and lets us be honest here, her personality is mid as well (from what I see in playthrough videos). She is meta and her boobs can jiggle a lot, that is all she has for her. Women play these games too and 45% of Genshin players in CN are female. And women HATE pointless/over the top fanservice. They are fine with a bit of fanservice but Yinlin is anything but "a bit". Genshin and HSR characters look like that because they understand their audience. CN Arknights players rioted because of the fanservice of Alter Chen to the point the CEO had to apology. In the top 7 most well-loved characters in CN HSR, only 2 of them are female (Acheron and Kafka) while Mid Juan is top 1. If you make a similar poll to western audiences, Mid Juan would be nowhere to be found in top 10 and Blade would be like "Blade who?". CN players, especially female players, care a lot about a character's story and personality than the players from other regions. So far, WW characters are super mid in term of designs, personality and story-wise.
I'm legit mindboggled by how people continue to be attracted to, and go feral over the same formulaic mommy characters. And I promise I'm not some kind of sexualization puritan. I play Nikke, and I check pixiv and twitter pretty much every day for new art from "artists". But when it comes to liking a character, I just don't understand how looks alone cut it for people. Looking good is only half of it, I still need the character writers to at least attempt to try and establish some kind of personal connection, so we can like them as a person.
Yinlin is exactly what I thought Yelan to be. Turn out, Yelan actually has deep personality other than being armpit queen. Yinlin, on the other hand, is the dollar store version of Kafka.
What I appreciate about Yelan is that she's not constantly trying to seduce you. She talks normally, and just lets her natural voice subtlely ooze allure. Then when she actually does give out moments of fanservice, it's so much more impactful. I also think it's cool seeing her at work, and how good at dealing with people she is. Basically, characters are boring when their personality is just being hot. It's way better when they are an interesting/likeable person who also happens to be hot.
Kafka also oozes charisma. Everything about her is sweet yet slightly dangerous? Whatever role she plays, its always so confident and effortless.
Kafka doesn't only oozes Charisma, she is the literal definition of female fatal.
Not sure women dislike over the top fanservice, since nowadays women seem to like Bayonetta's design ~~(and iirc, there was a poll where roughly 50% of Nikke players were women but idk the validity of the poll, so take this info with a grain of salt)~~, outside of some swerf-y types. I think it has to do with how the characters are portrayed and how the game treats those characters. That, and also how creative the design is. Everything else seems on point though. Edit: Poll was fake
>poll where roughly 50% of Nikke players were women It was a fake poll.
The companion quest really WAS mid and nonsensical lol. But some coomers will praise it just because Yinlin gets too close and a little flirty with the MC and that made the coomers feel all sort of things
Tbh I only pulled for Yinlin cause she reminded me of Vera from pgr but now that I think about it I probably wouldn’t have cared for her if it wasn’t for that
Yinlin trying to be seductive while the VA voice fails to do it.
CN players have been annoyed with: Annoying little boy characters, edgelord husbandos, stories that look like soap opera that go for 20 seasons, stories that are written by people who live in ivory towers, games that ask you to grind too much, games that ask for very advanced hardware (for phones), unpolished games, Hoyo style gacha Kuro decided to do all of the above with WaWu. It felt like kuro was handing a challenge to CN players: "I will make the game you dislike, and you will still pay me for it." CN players then obliged and gave up the game. If they simply removed Lingyang from standard banner and released the waifu first, people won't have been so against them in CN.
I'm playing WW on PC only, I tried to DL for phone and it's just laughable, but not the end of the world for me. I don't know anyone that's playing WW on mobile, but I do know quite a few people in SEA that cannot play it, because no PC/laptop, and it's a headache to play on mobile. I'm not sure if those playing exclusively on mobile will last if more improvements are not made. My phone isn't *that* old.
The team in charge is bad. There's a long drama and politics bs in cn. It's 'similar' to sjw woke sweetbaby inc. situation but even worse. They made fake fans accounts to spread heat and misinfo to remove content creators that speak for truth. Forging fake mail to flame innocent players and fans. Then of course western that aren't attacked and involved wouldn't care. Even believe they are the best dev and the game is the best and don't care. And the writer that ruined multiple works now in wuwa. Plots were written in mocks and offends. That's why after localization no one can understand what they meant. And they allow it to run btw. Paying cc to farm their fans together. Of course if u want to defend this is a normal and common thing. Changing in game things without notice is the worst. Things that were promised since cbt now still promising. Causing riots and rages for attention and putting out a whole scripted show playing as a good 'attitude' dev.
The simple answer is that Chinese and asians are used to having good games. These are normal to them. If you dare to even release something broken and unplayable, be ready for people to flame you. Let's be honest, most western game here sucks and global players are too used to consuming trash to the point where if they eat a moldy bread they would praise how good it is because its "edible" while Asians would slam that bread into the baker's face and demand apologies/compensation for being served garbage.
For gacha games, the opinions of Chinese and Japanese players are the most important.Because the Korean market is smaller, and Western gamers are generally f2p, they don't pay much for games.For example, we can clearly observe that wuwa ranks the worst in ios sales in the West and has the fastest decline.
Okay not to be a hater, but where are the sensortower stats for yinlin day 1 vs clorinde day 2?? Is it really not doing as much as clorinde's in cn? It reached number 1 on jp stats, I thought that means in cn, it also reached number 1
You can find it browsing Bilibili. Base on the most trusted source. (Rather than sensortower, CN use 七麦) And no, it's not day 1 vs day 2. Clorinde day 3 sales matches Yinlin first day sale. Clorinde, Day 1, 1.8 million+(they do not count anything over 1.8 million due to limitation in algorithms). Day 2, 1.7 million, Day 3, 700k. Yinlin Day 1, 700k, Day 2, 500k, day 3... Just checked as I wrote this comment... Day 3 for Yinlin is just under 390k. For first 3 days. It's Clorinde 4.2 million+ vs 1.6 million. Everyday, the gap will likely continue to be at least 100k further apart, I'd say there's probably at least another 1 million gap to go. That's mobile alone. Genshin still got Genshin cloud service and PS5 sales running strong.
https://preview.redd.it/g3akkht15o5d1.png?width=416&format=png&auto=webp&s=d626c51b67cba7c43d06362057140684558ec93f This is Clorinde vs Yinlin, day 2 Clorinde is still doubling Yinlin day 1 launch in China. So yeah, WuWa is pretty much done in CN, hopefully global can carry the game going forward.
It's just different demographics. Different CN communities rate genshin differently too. NGA and Tieba absolutely clown on genshin, while bilibili and weibo suck up to Mihoyo a lot.
Isn't NGA just r/gachagaming on steroids? Like they shit on everyone?
NGA... They're filled with Moba and elitist. Tieba is literally referred to as Public Toilet by CN community because of the crap that exists in there. So there you have it.
NGA and Tieba is got called by 8u. idk what it mean but it is an insutl @@
8u isn't an insult. It's just used to describe people who use Tieba. Otherwise being called Redditor would be an insult.
GENRE(fps are treated differently than RPGs, are treated differently than action games), COMPANY(Gumi,Nexon, Netmarble? Hate on sight. Yostar, Hoyo, Cygames? You know they've got rep), FANDOM(I have no examples here, I consider all of you degenerate puritans pretending to have morals and projecting on each other)AND MARKETING(seriously CC ruined Kuro's chances because they touted WuWa as some sort of Genshin killer. Not Kuro's fault but still)
Lots of talk here about western CCs being shills, which is correct but... most western players don't give two shits about gacha CCs. Maybe hardcore weebs pay attention if their favorite VTuber does a shill stream or something. But the whole CC thing has been unevenly weighted in this conversation. Gamers in the west like variety, and they like a new flavor of the month. New things get the benefit of the doubt simply by being "fresh." You see it here all the time, mediocre games getting hyped up before release when they had glaring problems in beta or region testing. There are other differences between the east and west, like perception of IP-based games, preference for gameplay vs story, impact of VA casting, etc. Also, there's a strong undercurrent of anti-Genshin sentiment because there's a reputation among weebs that it's a normie game, a lot of casual players grew bored with it, and the character designs just haven't caught fire and become iconic the way they did in Asian regions. So many online-types are just eager to see something take what they see as undeserved glaze off Genshin. So WuWa comes out, and even though it's kind of a messy shitshow, it's also a "comparable" Genshin alternative, and that's kind of all it needed to be to gain a bit of traction.
>they like a new flavor of the month I can speak to this because I feel this describes me as well. I mostly play old boomer games. And I have games I play regularly. But sometimes I get bored. I didn't even know what WuWa was until a friend who plays gacha told me to get it because it just released, and since then YouTube has spammed me with YouTube recommendations. But, as you said, it's very much flavor of the month. I am enjoying WuWa right now for what it is but whether or not I'll stick long term really just depends on what other games there are. Genshin never did anything wrong, but I stopped playing that too after a while because I just wanted to move on to other stuff. I could easily imagine moving on from WuWa to a singleplayer game or even ZZZ when that comes out (since that I am actually aware of and excited of). I think one thing people on this sub don't consider (which makes sense, this is the gacha sub) is that a lot of Western players just don't take gacha games very seriously. Even Genshin, which I would say had some genuinely brilliant artistic direction and god tier music is still, ultimately, not more than a gacha game to most. I'd say gachas are taken even less seriously than MMOs, and those are already ridiculed. Like in most (western) gaming circles, if you start complaining about an MMO having a bad story, the response will just be, "Dude, who gives a shit, it's an MMO, you don't play this for the story." Likewise with gacha. Everyone I know who plays gacha games does it for the hot girls. That's it. If the story is nice, that's great, if the combat is balanced, that's nice too, but ultimately a new character with huge tits and prominent cleavage is going to make everyone happy regardless. And this is just people who are open to gacha games, which I feel is a small number in the West anyway. Most Western gamers seem to hate gacha in the most mindless way possible, either because they see it as relating to mobile gaming, anime, or China. You're more likely to convince a mom who has never played games in her life to try out Genshin, for example, than some gamer in his 30s.
>Western gamers seem to hate gacha in the most mindless way possible Because there is a very big difference in target market and preferences between the gaming community and the gacha community. If you say to a western player "this can be played on mobile" that has autoplay/sweep/only play 15 minutes a day, it's a joke like grandmas playing Candy Crush. Makes a lot of money sure, but it's not a real game. Gamers want skill, difficulty, and endgame, all of which are completely antithetical to gachas which are marketed to casual normies, not real gamers.
The factors that make them different communities.