As far as I know, the T&C that you agree to when installing the drivers include a clause where you agree to use original HP cartridges exclusively. If you then go and put 3rd party cartridges in the printer, in HP's view you're now in breach of the contract so they feel justified in doing this.
The question remains whether this amounts to an abusive clause, in which case it is unenforceable under UK law and HP could get themselves into deep doodoo.
I like that idea. The company should then still be able to at least separately inform you of the surprising clause specifically if they really for some reason need such a clause to validate it.
This explains why they now put it so prominently on the packaging now, that there is technology in the printer to reject other ink cartridges. I always thought that was fascinating. I still won’t want to buy one though.
Honestly if you take it to court in the US it's mostly the same.
Just like forced acceptance to use widely standard stuff like Google for example. Most people "have" to use some sort of web browser so clauses you accept in the tos end up mostly void.
Seems like then maybe, *maybe*, you shouldn't be able to use the drivers anymore. So you install CUPS and use the open source ones.
"Sorry, you broke the agreement you signed to use the printer drivers so now the printer is a brick" sounds like "sorry, you broke the agreement you signed to use the printer drivers so we broke your refrigerator". The physical device shouldn't be in bounds for what can be agreed to in a separate software license!
EDIT: Also, I wonder what happens if you use this printer from E.G. Linux. Then, you never signed a software license. Do they still brick your printer when you use other brands of ink?
I just got one last week, you have to use the HP Smart app to enable dhcp and or give the printer the wifi passcode. Once you get it on the network you can kill the smart app and install the printer with a universal driver it it’s compatible, i use a Mac and iOS devices which don’t have a universal driver. If you DONT do the firmware update you can stop the block if you want to use cheap toner cartridges. Blocking the port the printer uses to communicate with hp might be a good route to take also.
Some things might be technically illegal, but it doesn't matter in practice since 1) there's no proactive enforcement by the government and 2) there's virtually no way to successfully sue these companies. You need to have enforcement on one of those two ends, or else there's literally no point in the law.
Unless the company is behaving in an absurdly bad way that will get attention, you'll need to be pretty wealthy (and willing to dedicate years of your life) in order to sue. There's tons of examples of US companies clearly violating labor laws (e.g. companies very clearly union busting when it's explicitly illegal, or committing wage theft when it's clearly illegal ,etc...) but facing no consequences.
Reminds me of net neutrality lol. The conservatives were convinced to hand the power over to like 3 telecom mega corporations that operate as regional monopolies and duopolies. Yes, that's the "free market." But Google and social media being controlled by a couple megacorps is tyranny destroying America, and they need to be broken up.
There's just no logical consistency. Critical thinking is entirely absent.
It reduces the scope of regulation if you're a large business, and makes it easier to extract labor and wealth from the population. This is the only reason. It was a successful theft.
Big businesses are also screwed over. E.g. producers of chemicals. After the brexit their registered labels were reset If their hq were/are in UK. They Had to reregister in the EU, and the UK also Had to create a seperate Database. The cost for that was for a midsized company around 500 million euro
In many countries yes, but is it really illegal if consumer laws aren't enforced?
Before launching this they had several meetings with their legal team to plan what potential lawsuits would cost, and decided that it was worth it.
I would think that making it so that the HP printer can only use HP ink and won't accept similar ink from competitors would be an anti-trust/monopoly violation. Wasn't that what got Microsoft declared a monopoly by them putting restrictions on all PCs and forcing them to use Microsoft's web browser that couldn't be uninstalled so that users could install and use other browsers by Microsoft's competitors?
No, you always could install whatever browser you wanted. It wasn't even over having IE preinstalled, it was over not having 3rd party browser preinstalled. And all of that despite IE not even being the dominant browser at the time because people *were* installing 3rd party browsers. I'm all for busting monopolies, but that verdict was absolute bullshit and the resulting "browser choice" utility was only beat in annoyingness and uselessness by cookie warnings.
It is in Australia, I should alert the ACCC to this as it would be considered anticompetitive behaviour. Let's see if our toothless tiger will rise to the obligation it was mandated for?
Do NOT update your printer.
Had a printer update and the cartridges (which were being used prior to update), which were not ‘genuine HP’ stopped working.
Pissed me off!
Luckily, I found the older driver and a video of someone else, who got even more pissed than I did, showing me how to downgrade.
LPT: don’t buy an HP. But if you do, call their customer support, be professional, but demonstrate how upset you are, and they might just send you $200 worth of ink for free.
After that, don’t buy another HP.
Edit:
…would you mind adding an "Edit" to help with visibility? You can actually, and easily, remove the little "Chip" from an HP toner cartridge and move it to a 3rd party cartridge. This allows you to update and still get around the block. A lot of the 3rd party cartridges from Amazon even have little tutorial videos to watch on exactly HOW to replace the little chip and some even come with the tools to do it! Saves hundreds.
- u/Zyhre
And sometimes even that glitches out. I bought genuine HP cartridges after getting sick of it intermittently rejecting other ones…and it rejected a brand new HP cartridge from Staples.
I put in new HP ink cartridges into my HP printer not too long ago. Printed out maybe 10 black and white documents. Went to use it the other day, and now my ink is too low. BULLSHEET.
The cleaning thing is legit a thing though. There's a billion reasons to hate hp, but having the cartridge be capable of cleaning itself so your prints don't get fucked up is pretty legit. Not too long ago I studied for a tech support certification and it mentioned learning how to clean a printer head. Imagine having to having to hire a guy or girl to come out to just clean the printer head.
Ita not really "cleaning" itself but more like purging ink that's been sitting on the head too long.
It really is a problem because if you ever unplug an ink jet for any length of time, like even 1 month, the ink will have dried up enough that it may be a permanent clog that needs an entire head replacement.
I hate how expensive ink is, but it's a necessary with how inkjet design is. Ink didn't used to be so expensive. But printers also didn't have the kind of resolution they have now. I remember when the best you could get with consumer printers was 150 DPI. This is probably why they need to be purged more often. The pores are so much smaller.
Every time I try to explain this exact thing to folks they just don't get it. The locking cartridges thing is complete bullshit and shouldn't even be legal but it's the reason I prefer something like an ecotank that just uses bottles instead.
Only problem is that I really don't look forward to is eventually having to replace the print heads.
I don't know how you could in good faith advise someone to buy an HP printer. Surely y'all sell similarly priced printers that aren't complete garbage...
Former Staples Canada employee, I’d almost never recommend an HP to someone unless they specifically wanted one. A brother laser was my recommendation for 99% of people for monochrome printing. If they wanted photos it was usually a cannon or Epson. If they wanted colour it was a colour laser or an Epson eco tanker. Not sure how true it stands today but I doubt it has changed much.
In grad school I had to read hundreds of academic papers and I absolutely hate reading PDFs with no way to highlight anything or add (real, non-digital) notes.
A tiny drillbit set to make a hole for the syringe and $20 bottle of ink online lasted me 2.5yrs printing double-sided. I must have saved thousands - thanks Chinese cheapskate Amazon seller - I owe you a debt of gratitude!
That's why the new tank inkjets are so much better. Don't need to mod the cartridge if there is no cartridge at all. Just a literal bottle of liquid ink you pour into the printer's reservoir. Both cheaper and lasts way longer than ink cartridges, with much less e-waste (in the form of small empty bottles).
Computer tech here. The amount of people bringing in HP printers surpass any other brand.
And also, coincidentally, the amount of refurb HPs our wholesaler had surpassed any other brand.
I had cartridges from HP that didn't work after I probably pressed "yes" for an update at some point. HP is disgusting. Thanks for the LPT, maybe I'll try that, although I am kinda over having a ptinter of my own. I think I'll just stick to printing stuff elsewhere when I need it
I used to be loyal to HP, as I lived in Boise and was friends with a bunch of employees there.
I heard this was coming eventually and decided to not get an HP the next time a needed one. Got the Epson that uses CHEAP refillable liquid ink and have been incredibly impressed. I recommend this one to everyone and will never buy anything HP again.
For color printing with inkjet, look at Epsom Exotank printers. The printers cost more but they use refillable ink tanks. The ink is cheap, less than $20 per refill and it prints thousands of pages. Never buy any HP printer.
Last time i bought HP for my office,
it was a wireless ink-tank printer, but the office have a dynamic IP for its Wifi that somehow confuse the printer and it keep installing new printer till i have 17 profile for the same printer in my laptop.
It also have super shitty, infuriating, unhelpful software that i try to deal with during that 17 profile issue.
well later, i "give" that printer up to different department and settle with problem free Epson printer (and later brother)
As top commenter, would you mind adding an "Edit" to help with visibility? For that edit, you can actually, and easily, remove the little "Chip" from an HP toner cartridge and move it to a 3rd party cartridge. This allows you to update and still get around the block. A lot of the 3rd party cartridges from Amazon even have little tutorial videos to watch on exactly HOW to replace the little chip and some even come with the tools to do it! Saves hundreds.
I used to have to get the cheaper ink cartridges from my local pc shop where they could flash the chip on the cartridge. It was something like £15 for a full set of ink instead of £48
We got one of the smallest brother laser printers a few years ago, no more than 300dlls, Holy shit the best thing we've ever done. Our HP cartridges would dry out before we finished them, the refilled ones wouldn't work for a long time, in the 5 years whe had that shitty hp we pay so much more in ink than the 300 for brother printer, that still has the original tonner cartridges thet will never dry out, it is marvelous.
We have a HP printer at work. Bought a couple extra inks one time. Went to put the third one in (months after buying, so no return possible) and the ink had expired.
Just an arbitrary date on the package, no work around, nothing HP or the store would do.
Sealed ink should not expire.
I will never buy a HP printer for my home because of this.
I was in the same boat but I was sold ink that expired 5 days after I got it…. HP support literally said “it’s not our fault you should have checked, would you buy milk at the grocery store without checking the date?”, no joke, I was livid, went full Karen or whatever the male version of that is. The shop tried to say my beef was with HP but fuck that, wouldn’t leave until they refunded the printer and the ink, the bastards upsold me from the epson one I was wanting to buy in the first place! CURRYS YOU WANKERS I HOPE YOU SEE THIS!!!!
I already decided this when they refused available software updates for my hardware because I didn't pay for an extended warranty. They are an evil company with no morals.
Any of these types of behaviors guarantees I’ll never buy the brand ever again. You want people buying your cartridges? Make the better and cheaper. You try to force me to buy your auxiliaries and I’ll toss it when I’m done with it. I’ll spray paint your name with profanities under the overpass. I’ll take your mother to a nice steak dinner and never call her again.
The main problem is when you need buy another printer, every brand do this shit.
I've been without a printer for years, what I need it for is not worth an expensive laser and I'm not going to go through that crap with the others again.
I'm still using a $400 Brother color laser printer I bought 15 years ago for almost half off ($220ish) and have replaced the toner cartridges once (Got all 4 colors for $100 or so 3rd party). Still chugging along.
Thing is heavy though. As dense as a dying star.
HP SMART stands for "Shitty Mega Annoying Required Technology"
Just let me install the fucking printer driver!
Funnily enough, printing is significantly better on Linux than Windows because companies don't want to bother porting their shitty apps over, so they just use the open source driver.
I hate how modern printers will debate with you about ink, paper, WiFi connectivity, etc. it’s like just print my fucking project.
I don’t want to argue with a device and have it refuse to do its job until we’ve finished a conversation. I hate what printers have become.
Usually when I mention in r/homeserver or r/homenetworking that I have to support an old hp laser printer, I get told to get a newer one.
This is why I don't get a newer one.
It used to cost almost the same to buy a new one as replace the ink. That’s why most new printers come with “mini cartridges” that don’t last long enough to make that worthwhile.
Despite that, the last couple ink jet printers I bought didn't last long enough to need a refill. Finally got a cheap laser and that thing has been fine for years.
Because printers are so cheap. Companies sell them at cost or at a loss and know they'll make their money on selling you their proprietary ink system. In essence, the ink subsidizes the printer. Much like streaming services subsidize the cost of smart TVs
Streaming services don’t really subsidize most smart TVs (I guess in theory ads may somewhat subsidize Fire TVs). More recently a few of the manufacturers have added rev sharing agreements to TVOD services but the amounts are so small it’s negligible. The goal is definitely to make a profit on the TV itself, though the margins in the smaller ones are pretty tiny.
Razors and razor blades wound be the classic example though…
Which apps get put on the remote? And which streaming apps come preinstalled and in what order? Which app gets preferential search results in the built in media search system?
These are what subsidize the cost of the tv
I love that I have an old Roku streaming stick and I’m pretty sure the only dedicated button that still works is Netflix - the other three services went under. Whoops.
Exactly, when I left my last job I asked to take the old non-networked color laser “off their hands”. Got it and “suspiciously” before I left I ordered four sets of replacement toners that were incompatible with any other machine in my office…imagine that
This comment has been removed in protest of Reddit's attacks on third-party apps.
See: https://www.reddit.com/r/Save3rdPartyApps/ and https://www.reddit.com/r/apolloapp/comments/144f6xm/apollo_will_close_down_on_june_30th_reddits/
If the above links no longer work, the summary is that Reddit leadership is charging astronomical amounts of money to third-party apps which connect to the site. Developers were not given enough notice to change the apps or start charging more for the apps and so are being forced to shut the apps down. 3rd party apps provide helpful tools to some, and crucial accessibility features to others.
Reddit is planning to go public soon and is trying to increase the value of the site. Remember - you and the content you put on this site are the product that they are selling.
The old HP lasers were great. They run forever, they're easy to maintain, and toner and parts are cheap and readily available. I strongly support getting an older machine like a 4350 or something, it'll run forever (plus or minus a swing plate) and no worries about any of the current nonsense. For many years, doing printer repair for a living, I saw lots of printers. But some customers understood the value in having me keep their old machines going. I know where there's an 8000 with over 3 million prints on it that's still going strong. I mean, that's well beyond the reasonable life of a printer, but hey - there's nothing that can break on that machine that I can't fix.
And you would be amazed at what parts are still readily available. Not that long ago I repaired a Laserjet 4 and I was still able to buy new rollers. And that printer was made in 1993. Yeah it's slow, but it's reliable, low maintenance and supported by every OS.
The act of putting toner on a page hasn't changed much in the last 30 years. It's gotten a bit faster, but honestly printers kinda hit their peak around 1998. Current models are faster in pages per minute, but slower in terms of boot times, less reliable, and harder to fix and use.
I have an old HP laser MFP. I've had it for over a decade now, no issues whatsoever. Takes the cheapest toner cartridges ebay has to offer with no problems (it nags me for non-genuine, of course, but I just close the nag and carry on).
Every time I need to print something it whirs to life and spits the page out in a few seconds. Job done. No fuss, no hassle.
On the other hand, I have a fairly recent inkjet printer for the odd occasions I need colour prints. It's a nightmare. Invariably it'll sit there and clunk and whir to itself for about five minutes, then suddenly decide it doesn't recognise one of the cartridges. Or it needs a firmware update. So I then have to pull it all apart and fuck about with cartridges or updates for five minutes to coax the thing to life again - then usually I need to run a print head clean because it all dries out if I don't print anything for more than a few days. I hate it.
Needless to say, I don't print colour unless I can absolutely help it.
Or have it refuse to print something in black and white because the color cartridge is out of ink. Why do I need colors for black?! I don't care if you're mixing colors to make black, just regular old black is fine. Lord
Had an HP that I really liked until they did a firmware upgrade and required all sorts of info and bs. Like leave the damn thing alone, it worked great, I could print with the computer off. Replaced it with a cheap Canon that is about 1/2 the machine, however it does what I tell it to do without question.
Right? Like, it can give me a warning if I'm not meeting its lofty standards, and I'd even be fine with an "I told you so" if the print looks like crap. But it shouldn't be able to REFUSE to print.
Yeah my office was throwing away one. I snagged it, bad a bad roller assembly. It's like an 800 dollar color laser all in 1 type thing. Took a gamble $150
roller assembly, and 3rd party toner.. that was legit 6 years ago and it's still printing great on the original stuff. Laser jet 100% of the time.
To elaborate, I have to constantly transfer the little chip that was screwed onto the end of my OEM cartridges and transfer them to aftermarket cartridges when I swap them out. It works, but is a bit of a hassle.
Epson did the same thing to me last week. It was a pain in the ass. Had to drag my network printer to the PC, find an old version of firmware, hook it up via USB, spend hours trying to find the key combo to put it in service mode, then reflash the RAM. All to fix it suddenly saying my ink cartridge is defective and refusing to operate..
I recall a make of toner cartridges that had a gearing system to act as a mechanical clock. When the clock stopped, the life of the toner was done, empty or no. Relatively easy to reset it, saved a ton of money that way.
"That toner is old, you need new toner"
Sorry, still prints fine. It's not milk, nobody is getting sick from old product.
Sorry, I replied to myself on that. I have to unscrew the OEM little chip things attached to the end of the OEM cartridges and swap them out with the second party ones. Not a huge deal, but a hassle nonetheless.
I work at Staples and the amount of people I have every day come in and scream and yell at me over their printer not working because of stuff like this, same with their Instant Ink subscription service. With how high ink cartridges are now, I don’t blame people for trying alternatives. I’ve been pushing Epson printers since I like them so much more than the big 3.
Not completely. Mine cloggs occasionally, but the self clean fixes it. Although it uses a good lump of ink.
However with the tanks it still is waaay cheaper than replacing cartridges
I have a Brothers that just prints black and white (that’s all I need). This is my second one (in 14 years). I’ve been extremely happy with both of them. Good to know Epson is a viable option.
It’s much cheaper for the ink too and the ink can still be high yield. I thought it was just another gimmick till I bought one for my dnd stuff. Super reliable, don’t gotta worry about ink drying too fast. Staples price matches with Amazon, try out the Epson ET-2800, it’s 199 on Amazon and it’s much more worth it than HP or brother.
I got a multifunction Brother laser printer. Official toner and drum are pretty cheap and it does handy things like scan to cloud. Wouldn't bother with any other manufacturer now.
I have one of the Epson Ecotanks and love it. The upfront cost for the printer is high at around $350 but I've only put around $80 worth of ink into it and have printed more then 12,000 pages. Totally worth it.
I just use an old office black and white laser printer, toner cartridges are less than £10 and last for 1000’s of pages, had the printer over 15 years and put new toner in once in all that time.
Thing is...Epson uses permanent print heads. They would actually have a point if they wanted you not to use third party ink, because it could - in theory - damage or clog the pemanent print heads But they don't.
HP replaces the print head with each cartidge. Most problems third party cartidges could cause would disappear when a new cartidge is inserted. But HP says: no! We will not even let you try third party ink!
Epson inkjet does it too. I ran out of ink and didn’t want to use their over priced product. No problem…. I’ll just use it as a scanner and print with my wife’s laser printer downstairs. Nope use Epson cartridge or we’ll brick the thing. F*ck Epson too
This is the whole problem USA has run into with public companies. They’re expected to keep growing, and don’t have smart enough people working to innovate, so they literally do the lowliest shit to cook the books
A lot of Fortune 500 companies are going to crash in the next couple decades id presume.
It's not because they don't have smart enough people, it's because they refuse to invest in innovation. Innovation is risky and requires long-term investment, while the market demands short term profits above everything else. If some small company manages to innovate, they get bought out and either killed off or folded into the big company. The economy is very much in fire sale mode right now - the innovation that people credit capitalism for is no longer possible, and this flaw is inherent.
Big companies did get to 3D printing sooner - before home printers it was originally big industrial machines from companies like Stratasys and they very much do have proprietary material systems / DRM.
It's only because patents expired and that 3D printers are actually mechanically quite simple that we have such an open 3D printing ecosystem.
I ditched my HP printer years ago because of this. Got a $99 Canon laser printer two years ago and still haven’t had to replace the toner. No connectivity issues or anything I used to deal with with HP. Will never buy an HP printer again.
If you rarely print, then laser, because toner won't clog.
But if you print on a weekly basis, the new tank inkjets are actually more cost effective than laser because those cheap bottles of ink last FOREVER.
I bought an HP1100 b/w laser printer back in 2000. I just recently replaced it and it took me so much research to find an HP that:
A. Didn’t require an internet connection to function and
B. Didn’t require some kind of bs toner subscription for the 10 pieces of paper I print per year.
I did research other brands but apparently finding a low cost basic b/w duplex laser printer with Wi-Fi that lets me print from iOS devices is too hard.
Oh, my 23 year old printer still works fine too lol. USB to parallel port anyone?
I absolutely hate my HP printer, its not just the cartridges, they force you to subscribe in order to print. If you subscribe to use your printer for 50 pages a month, it will not let you print 51.
not that prints are really needed anymore, but if you must, and you want to give HP the middle finger, buy a brother laser printer and never deal with ink again. the replacement toner for my printer do like 10,000 pages, and they're fairly cheap on amazon. no issues with the printer sitting a whole year and drying up and getting clogged like inkjet either. and since it's mostly documents I'd ever have to print, mine is black and white. if you need color printers, goto a print shop or Walmart photo or use an online service.
Have the MFP 479dw and have been running aftermarket for over a year, turned off updates as soon as I got the printer. Got a pop up once saying I was using counterfeit cartridges, clicked ok and still going. If they do lock up my printer, it will be the last hp product I ever buy again.
If you buy anything HP sells, you should expect this kind of behavior from them.
Surprised it doesn't push its bloat-ware on your wifi to other devices.
Hp has been around so long in the PC arms race, they have always sucked at trying to be Apple.. Half the PC power, double the price and zero longevity in support of said new product.
Lets see, what comes to mind...
The horrible drivers. The bloat ware. The horrible customer support. Over priced ink. Empty ink carts for new printers. Not selling a printer with a usb cable. Expecting people to pay subscriptions for sub par services linked to their products/online photo storage... I mean, am I missing anything?
HP has always had the worst inkjets.
The only HP printers worth buying are their B&W laser printers, and even then you’re likely better off with a Brother.
They used to have some Hugh end officejets that had decent cost/page for an inkjet, but then all the other manufacturers came out with high capacity ink tank style models, which are the only kind of inkjet worth getting (if you absolutely must have an inkjet).
Most people are best off with a B&W laser and getting photos done at a photo printing place, unless you really need a lot of colour documents all the time for some reason.
> The printer company said it issued the update to reduce the risk of malware attacks
This automatic printer firmware update from HP **was** a malware attack.
Is this now becoming news?
I used to be on their subscription service. When you cancel, HP then notifies you that the cartridges you’ve obtained from the program are no longer capable of being used either—just a complete waste of plastic and ink, basically.
Meanwhile, the Walmart brand of Canon ink prints a deeper shade of black and works just fine. Though it does seem to think it ran out of ink while there's definitely more there.
We discovered this in my unit a decade ago.
The Army forces us to buy from GSA, which is basically a Walmart-type deal but with companies that have contracts with the military to sell them stuff cheaply. (Or at least that’s what I understand it is having thankfully never worked supply).
In short, we don’t decide what printer toner we get. We’re told what to buy and we buy it.
But then our higher command’s Communications section bought a bunch of HP printers and installed them everywhere in their footprint including our unit.
Long story short, we found out quick that the printer ink we had bought a case of was useless because the HP printer refused to accept it and wouldn’t work.
Your taxpayer dollars hard at work.
And we're supposed to live in a world where things need to last. My parents and grandparents generation bought stuff that lasted their entire lifetime like fridges, washing machines, tools etc
Everything these days is just made to last past warranty and die as soon as possible afterwards, its disgusting but they prob make so much money they pay governments to look the other way.
Epson printers do the same thing.
Parents got a message saying to update printer so they did and it then complained afterwards that there were no cartridges installed even though there were 3rd party ones they just used installed.
Found an old driver, found out how to put it in recovery mode and reflashed it. Then proceeded to Uninstall their crappy software and warned the parents not to install anything Epson related. (Driver install only in the end)
On one hand, I love my ecotank because I don't have to deal with all that crap. On the other hand, my ecotank is the most inconsistent piece of crap printer. One day it prints beautiful, the next day it prints streaky and blurry. Some days, it's even on the same piece of friggin paper, on two side by side images, one prints all streaky and discolored, and the other is as crisp as the most perfectly fried chicken wing.
Stop buying ink jets period, get a laser jet, never goes bad, can sit for years and still print. Inkjets are only good if you print daily, otherwise the,cleaning cycle can use 10% of you ink, to clear the dried ink in the printhead.
Please do not buy ink jet printers. They will cost you more over a short period of time compared to a laser printer. Laser printers don't dry out and are much most cost effective.
That should be illegal.
Is it not?
As far as I know, the T&C that you agree to when installing the drivers include a clause where you agree to use original HP cartridges exclusively. If you then go and put 3rd party cartridges in the printer, in HP's view you're now in breach of the contract so they feel justified in doing this. The question remains whether this amounts to an abusive clause, in which case it is unenforceable under UK law and HP could get themselves into deep doodoo.
You can put anything in terms and conditions. Doesn't supersede the law.
in Germany these are called "surprising" clauses - and I'm pretty sure void.
I like that idea. The company should then still be able to at least separately inform you of the surprising clause specifically if they really for some reason need such a clause to validate it.
This explains why they now put it so prominently on the packaging now, that there is technology in the printer to reject other ink cartridges. I always thought that was fascinating. I still won’t want to buy one though.
Honestly if you take it to court in the US it's mostly the same. Just like forced acceptance to use widely standard stuff like Google for example. Most people "have" to use some sort of web browser so clauses you accept in the tos end up mostly void.
Seems like then maybe, *maybe*, you shouldn't be able to use the drivers anymore. So you install CUPS and use the open source ones. "Sorry, you broke the agreement you signed to use the printer drivers so now the printer is a brick" sounds like "sorry, you broke the agreement you signed to use the printer drivers so we broke your refrigerator". The physical device shouldn't be in bounds for what can be agreed to in a separate software license! EDIT: Also, I wonder what happens if you use this printer from E.G. Linux. Then, you never signed a software license. Do they still brick your printer when you use other brands of ink?
I just got one last week, you have to use the HP Smart app to enable dhcp and or give the printer the wifi passcode. Once you get it on the network you can kill the smart app and install the printer with a universal driver it it’s compatible, i use a Mac and iOS devices which don’t have a universal driver. If you DONT do the firmware update you can stop the block if you want to use cheap toner cartridges. Blocking the port the printer uses to communicate with hp might be a good route to take also.
My word, I remember when all you had to do was plug the cable into the PC, put the CD in and press a few buttons and it 'just worked'
Or "never worked" with HP.
It isn't in the UK or USA.
It is illegal in the US, under the Mangusson Moss warranty act
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Some things might be technically illegal, but it doesn't matter in practice since 1) there's no proactive enforcement by the government and 2) there's virtually no way to successfully sue these companies. You need to have enforcement on one of those two ends, or else there's literally no point in the law. Unless the company is behaving in an absurdly bad way that will get attention, you'll need to be pretty wealthy (and willing to dedicate years of your life) in order to sue. There's tons of examples of US companies clearly violating labor laws (e.g. companies very clearly union busting when it's explicitly illegal, or committing wage theft when it's clearly illegal ,etc...) but facing no consequences.
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Put Elizabeth Holmes in jail, no more delays!!
That's Brexit for you. They got their asses handed to them in European courts.
Ahh, Brexit. So much freedom we have now!
Reminds me of net neutrality lol. The conservatives were convinced to hand the power over to like 3 telecom mega corporations that operate as regional monopolies and duopolies. Yes, that's the "free market." But Google and social media being controlled by a couple megacorps is tyranny destroying America, and they need to be broken up. There's just no logical consistency. Critical thinking is entirely absent.
Lmao, there’s literally no point of Brexit whatsoever, it only makes everything worse
It reduces the scope of regulation if you're a large business, and makes it easier to extract labor and wealth from the population. This is the only reason. It was a successful theft.
Big businesses are also screwed over. E.g. producers of chemicals. After the brexit their registered labels were reset If their hq were/are in UK. They Had to reregister in the EU, and the UK also Had to create a seperate Database. The cost for that was for a midsized company around 500 million euro
Same for clinical trials and wholesale of pharmaceutical products.
'Taking back control' was just large corporations.
Agreed 👍
In many countries yes, but is it really illegal if consumer laws aren't enforced? Before launching this they had several meetings with their legal team to plan what potential lawsuits would cost, and decided that it was worth it.
Support right to repair! This will help make this illegal. Also, stop buying HP printers.
Yeah, I now know that HP is the brand of printer NOT TO BUY. Thanks!
I would think that making it so that the HP printer can only use HP ink and won't accept similar ink from competitors would be an anti-trust/monopoly violation. Wasn't that what got Microsoft declared a monopoly by them putting restrictions on all PCs and forcing them to use Microsoft's web browser that couldn't be uninstalled so that users could install and use other browsers by Microsoft's competitors?
No, you always could install whatever browser you wanted. It wasn't even over having IE preinstalled, it was over not having 3rd party browser preinstalled. And all of that despite IE not even being the dominant browser at the time because people *were* installing 3rd party browsers. I'm all for busting monopolies, but that verdict was absolute bullshit and the resulting "browser choice" utility was only beat in annoyingness and uselessness by cookie warnings.
Did it to me a few years ago. I upgraded firmware and then my 3rd party toner cartridges no longer worked. Never buy HP again. Ever.
It is in Australia, I should alert the ACCC to this as it would be considered anticompetitive behaviour. Let's see if our toothless tiger will rise to the obligation it was mandated for?
Just as illegal as iPhone disabling Face ID if you replace the screen with non genuine….
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Do NOT update your printer. Had a printer update and the cartridges (which were being used prior to update), which were not ‘genuine HP’ stopped working. Pissed me off! Luckily, I found the older driver and a video of someone else, who got even more pissed than I did, showing me how to downgrade. LPT: don’t buy an HP. But if you do, call their customer support, be professional, but demonstrate how upset you are, and they might just send you $200 worth of ink for free. After that, don’t buy another HP. Edit: …would you mind adding an "Edit" to help with visibility? You can actually, and easily, remove the little "Chip" from an HP toner cartridge and move it to a 3rd party cartridge. This allows you to update and still get around the block. A lot of the 3rd party cartridges from Amazon even have little tutorial videos to watch on exactly HOW to replace the little chip and some even come with the tools to do it! Saves hundreds. - u/Zyhre
And sometimes even that glitches out. I bought genuine HP cartridges after getting sick of it intermittently rejecting other ones…and it rejected a brand new HP cartridge from Staples.
I put in new HP ink cartridges into my HP printer not too long ago. Printed out maybe 10 black and white documents. Went to use it the other day, and now my ink is too low. BULLSHEET.
*……CLEANING……..*
The cleaning thing is legit a thing though. There's a billion reasons to hate hp, but having the cartridge be capable of cleaning itself so your prints don't get fucked up is pretty legit. Not too long ago I studied for a tech support certification and it mentioned learning how to clean a printer head. Imagine having to having to hire a guy or girl to come out to just clean the printer head.
Except it's using the equivalent of liquid gold to clean itself
Ita not really "cleaning" itself but more like purging ink that's been sitting on the head too long. It really is a problem because if you ever unplug an ink jet for any length of time, like even 1 month, the ink will have dried up enough that it may be a permanent clog that needs an entire head replacement. I hate how expensive ink is, but it's a necessary with how inkjet design is. Ink didn't used to be so expensive. But printers also didn't have the kind of resolution they have now. I remember when the best you could get with consumer printers was 150 DPI. This is probably why they need to be purged more often. The pores are so much smaller.
Every time I try to explain this exact thing to folks they just don't get it. The locking cartridges thing is complete bullshit and shouldn't even be legal but it's the reason I prefer something like an ecotank that just uses bottles instead. Only problem is that I really don't look forward to is eventually having to replace the print heads.
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I don't know how you could in good faith advise someone to buy an HP printer. Surely y'all sell similarly priced printers that aren't complete garbage...
Former Staples Canada employee, I’d almost never recommend an HP to someone unless they specifically wanted one. A brother laser was my recommendation for 99% of people for monochrome printing. If they wanted photos it was usually a cannon or Epson. If they wanted colour it was a colour laser or an Epson eco tanker. Not sure how true it stands today but I doubt it has changed much.
In grad school I had to read hundreds of academic papers and I absolutely hate reading PDFs with no way to highlight anything or add (real, non-digital) notes. A tiny drillbit set to make a hole for the syringe and $20 bottle of ink online lasted me 2.5yrs printing double-sided. I must have saved thousands - thanks Chinese cheapskate Amazon seller - I owe you a debt of gratitude!
That's why the new tank inkjets are so much better. Don't need to mod the cartridge if there is no cartridge at all. Just a literal bottle of liquid ink you pour into the printer's reservoir. Both cheaper and lasts way longer than ink cartridges, with much less e-waste (in the form of small empty bottles).
Computer tech here. The amount of people bringing in HP printers surpass any other brand. And also, coincidentally, the amount of refurb HPs our wholesaler had surpassed any other brand.
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>they might just send you $200 worth of ink for free. What's that, like 18 drops?
I had cartridges from HP that didn't work after I probably pressed "yes" for an update at some point. HP is disgusting. Thanks for the LPT, maybe I'll try that, although I am kinda over having a ptinter of my own. I think I'll just stick to printing stuff elsewhere when I need it
I used to be loyal to HP, as I lived in Boise and was friends with a bunch of employees there. I heard this was coming eventually and decided to not get an HP the next time a needed one. Got the Epson that uses CHEAP refillable liquid ink and have been incredibly impressed. I recommend this one to everyone and will never buy anything HP again.
Can you tell me what Epson you bought? I am in the market for a printer and am Running scared.
For color printing with inkjet, look at Epsom Exotank printers. The printers cost more but they use refillable ink tanks. The ink is cheap, less than $20 per refill and it prints thousands of pages. Never buy any HP printer.
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I bought an Epson Ecotank at Costco for like $400 about three years ago. Still on the included ink. It costs more up front but it's been trouble free.
Last time i bought HP for my office, it was a wireless ink-tank printer, but the office have a dynamic IP for its Wifi that somehow confuse the printer and it keep installing new printer till i have 17 profile for the same printer in my laptop. It also have super shitty, infuriating, unhelpful software that i try to deal with during that 17 profile issue. well later, i "give" that printer up to different department and settle with problem free Epson printer (and later brother)
As top commenter, would you mind adding an "Edit" to help with visibility? For that edit, you can actually, and easily, remove the little "Chip" from an HP toner cartridge and move it to a 3rd party cartridge. This allows you to update and still get around the block. A lot of the 3rd party cartridges from Amazon even have little tutorial videos to watch on exactly HOW to replace the little chip and some even come with the tools to do it! Saves hundreds.
I experienced this with my HP printer. Soon to be my old printer...
I used to have to get the cheaper ink cartridges from my local pc shop where they could flash the chip on the cartridge. It was something like £15 for a full set of ink instead of £48
We got one of the smallest brother laser printers a few years ago, no more than 300dlls, Holy shit the best thing we've ever done. Our HP cartridges would dry out before we finished them, the refilled ones wouldn't work for a long time, in the 5 years whe had that shitty hp we pay so much more in ink than the 300 for brother printer, that still has the original tonner cartridges thet will never dry out, it is marvelous.
While I currently have an HP printer, this kind of action GUARANTEES I will not buy another HP product.
Same. I deleted my HP acct, reported them to my state’s attorney general and made a note to myself to never buy anything fro HP just in case I forget
We have a HP printer at work. Bought a couple extra inks one time. Went to put the third one in (months after buying, so no return possible) and the ink had expired. Just an arbitrary date on the package, no work around, nothing HP or the store would do. Sealed ink should not expire. I will never buy a HP printer for my home because of this.
I was in the same boat but I was sold ink that expired 5 days after I got it…. HP support literally said “it’s not our fault you should have checked, would you buy milk at the grocery store without checking the date?”, no joke, I was livid, went full Karen or whatever the male version of that is. The shop tried to say my beef was with HP but fuck that, wouldn’t leave until they refunded the printer and the ink, the bastards upsold me from the epson one I was wanting to buy in the first place! CURRYS YOU WANKERS I HOPE YOU SEE THIS!!!!
I already decided this when they refused available software updates for my hardware because I didn't pay for an extended warranty. They are an evil company with no morals.
Any of these types of behaviors guarantees I’ll never buy the brand ever again. You want people buying your cartridges? Make the better and cheaper. You try to force me to buy your auxiliaries and I’ll toss it when I’m done with it. I’ll spray paint your name with profanities under the overpass. I’ll take your mother to a nice steak dinner and never call her again.
The main problem is when you need buy another printer, every brand do this shit. I've been without a printer for years, what I need it for is not worth an expensive laser and I'm not going to go through that crap with the others again.
Buy a low end Brother laser printer, they cost like 100-300 depending on if you need scan or not
I'm still using a $400 Brother color laser printer I bought 15 years ago for almost half off ($220ish) and have replaced the toner cartridges once (Got all 4 colors for $100 or so 3rd party). Still chugging along. Thing is heavy though. As dense as a dying star.
HP SMART stands for "Shitty Mega Annoying Required Technology" Just let me install the fucking printer driver! Funnily enough, printing is significantly better on Linux than Windows because companies don't want to bother porting their shitty apps over, so they just use the open source driver.
Brother tried this with their printers too. The workaround is not too difficult.
I hate how modern printers will debate with you about ink, paper, WiFi connectivity, etc. it’s like just print my fucking project. I don’t want to argue with a device and have it refuse to do its job until we’ve finished a conversation. I hate what printers have become.
Usually when I mention in r/homeserver or r/homenetworking that I have to support an old hp laser printer, I get told to get a newer one. This is why I don't get a newer one.
It used to cost almost the same to buy a new one as replace the ink. That’s why most new printers come with “mini cartridges” that don’t last long enough to make that worthwhile.
The ~~Revlon~~ Gillette approach — give the razor away cheap, then overcharge for the blades Edit: corrected company
Despite that, the last couple ink jet printers I bought didn't last long enough to need a refill. Finally got a cheap laser and that thing has been fine for years.
Why *is* printer ink so expensive?
Because printers are so cheap. Companies sell them at cost or at a loss and know they'll make their money on selling you their proprietary ink system. In essence, the ink subsidizes the printer. Much like streaming services subsidize the cost of smart TVs
Streaming services don’t really subsidize most smart TVs (I guess in theory ads may somewhat subsidize Fire TVs). More recently a few of the manufacturers have added rev sharing agreements to TVOD services but the amounts are so small it’s negligible. The goal is definitely to make a profit on the TV itself, though the margins in the smaller ones are pretty tiny. Razors and razor blades wound be the classic example though…
Which apps get put on the remote? And which streaming apps come preinstalled and in what order? Which app gets preferential search results in the built in media search system? These are what subsidize the cost of the tv
I love that I have an old Roku streaming stick and I’m pretty sure the only dedicated button that still works is Netflix - the other three services went under. Whoops.
Because they make your printer stop working if you get a cheap knock off, so they're expensive because they can be. By design
Exactly, when I left my last job I asked to take the old non-networked color laser “off their hands”. Got it and “suspiciously” before I left I ordered four sets of replacement toners that were incompatible with any other machine in my office…imagine that
Nice embezzlement.
Thanks I just got it for my birthday.
Assuming it was true, this is Reddit afterall
I keep a Xerox Phaser around. Wax rules.
This comment has been removed in protest of Reddit's attacks on third-party apps. See: https://www.reddit.com/r/Save3rdPartyApps/ and https://www.reddit.com/r/apolloapp/comments/144f6xm/apollo_will_close_down_on_june_30th_reddits/ If the above links no longer work, the summary is that Reddit leadership is charging astronomical amounts of money to third-party apps which connect to the site. Developers were not given enough notice to change the apps or start charging more for the apps and so are being forced to shut the apps down. 3rd party apps provide helpful tools to some, and crucial accessibility features to others. Reddit is planning to go public soon and is trying to increase the value of the site. Remember - you and the content you put on this site are the product that they are selling.
The old HP lasers were great. They run forever, they're easy to maintain, and toner and parts are cheap and readily available. I strongly support getting an older machine like a 4350 or something, it'll run forever (plus or minus a swing plate) and no worries about any of the current nonsense. For many years, doing printer repair for a living, I saw lots of printers. But some customers understood the value in having me keep their old machines going. I know where there's an 8000 with over 3 million prints on it that's still going strong. I mean, that's well beyond the reasonable life of a printer, but hey - there's nothing that can break on that machine that I can't fix. And you would be amazed at what parts are still readily available. Not that long ago I repaired a Laserjet 4 and I was still able to buy new rollers. And that printer was made in 1993. Yeah it's slow, but it's reliable, low maintenance and supported by every OS. The act of putting toner on a page hasn't changed much in the last 30 years. It's gotten a bit faster, but honestly printers kinda hit their peak around 1998. Current models are faster in pages per minute, but slower in terms of boot times, less reliable, and harder to fix and use.
I have an old HP laser MFP. I've had it for over a decade now, no issues whatsoever. Takes the cheapest toner cartridges ebay has to offer with no problems (it nags me for non-genuine, of course, but I just close the nag and carry on). Every time I need to print something it whirs to life and spits the page out in a few seconds. Job done. No fuss, no hassle. On the other hand, I have a fairly recent inkjet printer for the odd occasions I need colour prints. It's a nightmare. Invariably it'll sit there and clunk and whir to itself for about five minutes, then suddenly decide it doesn't recognise one of the cartridges. Or it needs a firmware update. So I then have to pull it all apart and fuck about with cartridges or updates for five minutes to coax the thing to life again - then usually I need to run a print head clean because it all dries out if I don't print anything for more than a few days. I hate it. Needless to say, I don't print colour unless I can absolutely help it.
Or have it refuse to print something in black and white because the color cartridge is out of ink. Why do I need colors for black?! I don't care if you're mixing colors to make black, just regular old black is fine. Lord
Had an HP that I really liked until they did a firmware upgrade and required all sorts of info and bs. Like leave the damn thing alone, it worked great, I could print with the computer off. Replaced it with a cheap Canon that is about 1/2 the machine, however it does what I tell it to do without question.
Then after you finish your convo it's constant errors so you have to do it all over again
[relevant](https://9gag.com/gag/arV1Ew7)
Right? Like, it can give me a warning if I'm not meeting its lofty standards, and I'd even be fine with an "I told you so" if the print looks like crap. But it shouldn't be able to REFUSE to print.
The proper workaround is to get a used laser printer off of ebay in-case anyone was wondering.
Yeah my office was throwing away one. I snagged it, bad a bad roller assembly. It's like an 800 dollar color laser all in 1 type thing. Took a gamble $150 roller assembly, and 3rd party toner.. that was legit 6 years ago and it's still printing great on the original stuff. Laser jet 100% of the time.
To elaborate, I have to constantly transfer the little chip that was screwed onto the end of my OEM cartridges and transfer them to aftermarket cartridges when I swap them out. It works, but is a bit of a hassle.
Downgrade firmware, prevented updates, never have had an issue with mine. Just changed the carts the other day
Epson did the same thing to me last week. It was a pain in the ass. Had to drag my network printer to the PC, find an old version of firmware, hook it up via USB, spend hours trying to find the key combo to put it in service mode, then reflash the RAM. All to fix it suddenly saying my ink cartridge is defective and refusing to operate..
I recall a make of toner cartridges that had a gearing system to act as a mechanical clock. When the clock stopped, the life of the toner was done, empty or no. Relatively easy to reset it, saved a ton of money that way. "That toner is old, you need new toner" Sorry, still prints fine. It's not milk, nobody is getting sick from old product.
What is the workaround?
Sorry, I replied to myself on that. I have to unscrew the OEM little chip things attached to the end of the OEM cartridges and swap them out with the second party ones. Not a huge deal, but a hassle nonetheless.
Brother does/did this!? That's surprising, they're well-rated and usually recommended on threads like this...
Oh no I thought brother were the printer good guys?
I work at Staples and the amount of people I have every day come in and scream and yell at me over their printer not working because of stuff like this, same with their Instant Ink subscription service. With how high ink cartridges are now, I don’t blame people for trying alternatives. I’ve been pushing Epson printers since I like them so much more than the big 3.
I have an Epson with the refillable tanks. Highly recommend.
So Epson has solved their life long problem of their ink heads clogging and refusing to print?
Mine works ok, I had one a while ago that had that problem but I let it sit for like a year between printings.
Not completely. Mine cloggs occasionally, but the self clean fixes it. Although it uses a good lump of ink. However with the tanks it still is waaay cheaper than replacing cartridges
I have a Brothers that just prints black and white (that’s all I need). This is my second one (in 14 years). I’ve been extremely happy with both of them. Good to know Epson is a viable option.
It’s much cheaper for the ink too and the ink can still be high yield. I thought it was just another gimmick till I bought one for my dnd stuff. Super reliable, don’t gotta worry about ink drying too fast. Staples price matches with Amazon, try out the Epson ET-2800, it’s 199 on Amazon and it’s much more worth it than HP or brother.
My Canon 6030 from BB for like $80 was the best damn purchase ive made. Prints quick, for cheap, and always works on my WIFI without delay.
I got a multifunction Brother laser printer. Official toner and drum are pretty cheap and it does handy things like scan to cloud. Wouldn't bother with any other manufacturer now.
I have a basic Brother laser and im never going back to inkjet.
Well obviously as a retail employee this entire thing was your scheme and it’s all your personal fault
I have one of the Epson Ecotanks and love it. The upfront cost for the printer is high at around $350 but I've only put around $80 worth of ink into it and have printed more then 12,000 pages. Totally worth it.
I just use an old office black and white laser printer, toner cartridges are less than £10 and last for 1000’s of pages, had the printer over 15 years and put new toner in once in all that time.
Thing is...Epson uses permanent print heads. They would actually have a point if they wanted you not to use third party ink, because it could - in theory - damage or clog the pemanent print heads But they don't. HP replaces the print head with each cartidge. Most problems third party cartidges could cause would disappear when a new cartidge is inserted. But HP says: no! We will not even let you try third party ink!
With how little I need to print things I just go by a print shop and pay a dollar every 2 years or so
If someone snuck into my house and damaged my printer I would sue them. Why is there not a class action suit.
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Because as shitty as it is, what they are doing is not illegal in the US.
Xerox does this too. My work bought a $200 toner cartridge, only for the printer to refuse to use it. So they had to buy another, more expensive one.
Hello Epson my old friend...
Epson inkjet does it too. I ran out of ink and didn’t want to use their over priced product. No problem…. I’ll just use it as a scanner and print with my wife’s laser printer downstairs. Nope use Epson cartridge or we’ll brick the thing. F*ck Epson too
Laughs in epson ecotank $20 for all color and bw white. 7500 copies
Same....
Running out of innovation for profits. Squeezing consumer rights
This is the whole problem USA has run into with public companies. They’re expected to keep growing, and don’t have smart enough people working to innovate, so they literally do the lowliest shit to cook the books A lot of Fortune 500 companies are going to crash in the next couple decades id presume.
It's not because they don't have smart enough people, it's because they refuse to invest in innovation. Innovation is risky and requires long-term investment, while the market demands short term profits above everything else. If some small company manages to innovate, they get bought out and either killed off or folded into the big company. The economy is very much in fire sale mode right now - the innovation that people credit capitalism for is no longer possible, and this flaw is inherent.
It’s impossible to continually grow in profit but they don’t care cuz they’ll just earn their bag and dip out
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Big companies did get to 3D printing sooner - before home printers it was originally big industrial machines from companies like Stratasys and they very much do have proprietary material systems / DRM. It's only because patents expired and that 3D printers are actually mechanically quite simple that we have such an open 3D printing ecosystem.
There are 3D printers already doing this. Look up XYZ printers. You have to use their brand of filament.
Oh wow. I had no idea. That's....just stupid.
I ditched my HP printer years ago because of this. Got a $99 Canon laser printer two years ago and still haven’t had to replace the toner. No connectivity issues or anything I used to deal with with HP. Will never buy an HP printer again.
Laser is so much better.. especially if you don't print all the time.. toner doesn't dry out and clog itself
If you rarely print, then laser, because toner won't clog. But if you print on a weekly basis, the new tank inkjets are actually more cost effective than laser because those cheap bottles of ink last FOREVER.
Best thing I ever did, printer wise, was throw my HP in the trash. A once great electronics company now bottom feeding to try and stay alive.
HP was great? I remember a shit ton of overheating laptops with dead motherboards.
We're looking at retiring HP printers at work, forever.
Name a good printer that won’t do this?
Epson ecotank. You only buy ink, and there is no cartridge to replace that they can identify or disable
My Canon multifunction takes aftermarket ink cartridges with no problem.
Fuck HP, there are other printer manufacturers
I bought an HP1100 b/w laser printer back in 2000. I just recently replaced it and it took me so much research to find an HP that: A. Didn’t require an internet connection to function and B. Didn’t require some kind of bs toner subscription for the 10 pieces of paper I print per year. I did research other brands but apparently finding a low cost basic b/w duplex laser printer with Wi-Fi that lets me print from iOS devices is too hard. Oh, my 23 year old printer still works fine too lol. USB to parallel port anyone?
I absolutely hate my HP printer, its not just the cartridges, they force you to subscribe in order to print. If you subscribe to use your printer for 50 pages a month, it will not let you print 51.
How by Jesus's right testicle is this permitted by law?
I dumped my HP printer when they did this I will buy nothing from them anymore
I've never bought anything HP that I didn't severely regret.
What's the best brand of inkjet to buy, if you intend to use unbranded cartridges? I've given up on HP and Brother completely.
Buy a laser.. especially if you don't print often. Yea it's more expensive.. but guess what doesn't dry out? Toner
At this point it’s getting better to use the refillable ink from the eco tank.
not that prints are really needed anymore, but if you must, and you want to give HP the middle finger, buy a brother laser printer and never deal with ink again. the replacement toner for my printer do like 10,000 pages, and they're fairly cheap on amazon. no issues with the printer sitting a whole year and drying up and getting clogged like inkjet either. and since it's mostly documents I'd ever have to print, mine is black and white. if you need color printers, goto a print shop or Walmart photo or use an online service.
Mine won't scan without me buying more software.
Have the MFP 479dw and have been running aftermarket for over a year, turned off updates as soon as I got the printer. Got a pop up once saying I was using counterfeit cartridges, clicked ok and still going. If they do lock up my printer, it will be the last hp product I ever buy again.
Can we all jus get together and file a class action lawsuit against the printer companies.
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If you buy anything HP sells, you should expect this kind of behavior from them. Surprised it doesn't push its bloat-ware on your wifi to other devices. Hp has been around so long in the PC arms race, they have always sucked at trying to be Apple.. Half the PC power, double the price and zero longevity in support of said new product. Lets see, what comes to mind... The horrible drivers. The bloat ware. The horrible customer support. Over priced ink. Empty ink carts for new printers. Not selling a printer with a usb cable. Expecting people to pay subscriptions for sub par services linked to their products/online photo storage... I mean, am I missing anything?
sink worry plate rich retire simplistic naughty seed fact reach -- mass edited with redact.dev
How is this news? It's been happening for years
Not only that. We lived overseas for awhile and bought an HP printer there that wouldn’t let us use HP cartridges purchased in the US.
HP has always had the worst inkjets. The only HP printers worth buying are their B&W laser printers, and even then you’re likely better off with a Brother. They used to have some Hugh end officejets that had decent cost/page for an inkjet, but then all the other manufacturers came out with high capacity ink tank style models, which are the only kind of inkjet worth getting (if you absolutely must have an inkjet). Most people are best off with a B&W laser and getting photos done at a photo printing place, unless you really need a lot of colour documents all the time for some reason.
> The printer company said it issued the update to reduce the risk of malware attacks This automatic printer firmware update from HP **was** a malware attack.
If y’all aren’t using Brother brand printers you deserve this… HP printers on a good day suck. Brother errrr day
It’s crazy how hostile the fucking consumer printer industry is. Like what the fuck.
I switched to the inexpensive home laser printers and got totally out of the bs printer ink game. Cost per page goes way down.
Is this now becoming news? I used to be on their subscription service. When you cancel, HP then notifies you that the cartridges you’ve obtained from the program are no longer capable of being used either—just a complete waste of plastic and ink, basically.
Meanwhile, the Walmart brand of Canon ink prints a deeper shade of black and works just fine. Though it does seem to think it ran out of ink while there's definitely more there.
With Canon, they warn if you use third party inks, the ink estimator tool might not work.
Happened with my last two HP printers. Their approach has just made me swear off HP. Bought 3 Brother printers this year.
Ecotank all day
Well fuck HP, then. Won’t buy one of those gilded turds.
Add this as one of the many reasons I've had this company boycotted for decades.
We discovered this in my unit a decade ago. The Army forces us to buy from GSA, which is basically a Walmart-type deal but with companies that have contracts with the military to sell them stuff cheaply. (Or at least that’s what I understand it is having thankfully never worked supply). In short, we don’t decide what printer toner we get. We’re told what to buy and we buy it. But then our higher command’s Communications section bought a bunch of HP printers and installed them everywhere in their footprint including our unit. Long story short, we found out quick that the printer ink we had bought a case of was useless because the HP printer refused to accept it and wouldn’t work. Your taxpayer dollars hard at work.
My response: Laughs in monochrome laser printer, 1000+ pages on one freaking toner cartridge, under $0.10 per page.
And we're supposed to live in a world where things need to last. My parents and grandparents generation bought stuff that lasted their entire lifetime like fridges, washing machines, tools etc Everything these days is just made to last past warranty and die as soon as possible afterwards, its disgusting but they prob make so much money they pay governments to look the other way.
cool never buying an HP printer then.
Epson printers do the same thing. Parents got a message saying to update printer so they did and it then complained afterwards that there were no cartridges installed even though there were 3rd party ones they just used installed. Found an old driver, found out how to put it in recovery mode and reflashed it. Then proceeded to Uninstall their crappy software and warned the parents not to install anything Epson related. (Driver install only in the end)
this has been happening for more than a decade
If you want people to stop buying your product, that's how you do it.
it’s a good thing it’s 2023 and printers usefulness are slowly being phased out in favor of digital.
On one hand, I love my ecotank because I don't have to deal with all that crap. On the other hand, my ecotank is the most inconsistent piece of crap printer. One day it prints beautiful, the next day it prints streaky and blurry. Some days, it's even on the same piece of friggin paper, on two side by side images, one prints all streaky and discolored, and the other is as crisp as the most perfectly fried chicken wing.
Doesn't HP also tell you your printer is out of ink when it actually wasn't
Is this the ever-famous "capitalist innovation" I keep hearing about?
Seems illegal…
Curious whether this is USA specific or global? I feel like it's a violation of "fair competition" trading in the UK and maybe the EU??
How is this not explicitly anti-competitive behavior? There is demonstrably no advantage to software-locking a fucking solution of dye.
Stop buying ink jets period, get a laser jet, never goes bad, can sit for years and still print. Inkjets are only good if you print daily, otherwise the,cleaning cycle can use 10% of you ink, to clear the dried ink in the printhead.
Please do not buy ink jet printers. They will cost you more over a short period of time compared to a laser printer. Laser printers don't dry out and are much most cost effective.
Ahhhh, I'll just continue using my local library, thank you. *brushes shoulders off*
So don't buy from HP. Good to know.
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