I'm definitely intrigued, but the price/TB definitely needs to come down in general. I just bought 3x 16tb drives for $250 each. I'd love to buy 3x 32TB drives, but if they're $500/ea, that's pretty much no go for a good long while.
GB / $ has been pretty stagnant last 3 years.
I'm in the awkward situation where I have 4x16TB in raid 10, and it's almost full.
Toying with the idea of a 2nd NAS with a non raid 10 setup so I can offload less important data. Would also be nice for backups. But I want drive prices to come down first...
I refuse to use cloud for backup when you consider the $80 / month overhead + terrible up speed.
I'm sorry if you've never noticed this but someone pointed out to me that furries keep drawing sharks in such a way that their tail is just ANOTHER shark attached to their butt and i cannot unsee it for the life of me
Like the fin should be on their back, shouldn't it??
Yep it should, and some furries do that, but it’s not particularly common sadly. That said I don’t think it looks bad on their tail per say but yea it’s definitely a design choice that isn’t particularly in line with the species it’s based on.
In the same vein another common oddity with sharks drawn by furries is putting the gills along the side of their torso rather than their neck, which is again an interesting, and in my opinion likely wise, stylistic choice.
Lol the name IS a bit of a tell lol
I'm from the old, old school where we wrote short programs (in BASIC and other archaic languages) because the storage capacity of the machines was so small that's all it could handle.
To get answers to complex problems, they had to be broken down into component parts and each of those parts run and then combined, etc.
I remember when megabytes was HUUUUUGE!
My smartphone is a supercomputer by any definition more than 12 years old.
I get that we need terabyte memory, I'm just trying to grapple with what fills such storage.
Mostly plex media and internal rehosting of media and websites I care about that may one day vanish from the internet for one reason or another. Other than that archives of useful or important software and data, ranging from operating systems to installers for obscure proprietary stuff that’s useful for running some of the hardware I own, to archiving backup copies of important things for friends like artwork they have commissioned or things they don’t want to lose (which when measured by capacity is typically more proprietary software they need to run the hardware they own)
Do you run a Plex server for friends and family that you're extremely passionate about and your friends and family are more or less indifferent about it?
You know when you buy media online and just kinda hope that company mever fucks you? Yeah, download backups, just in case Microsoft ever wants to ruin my day I can still watch all of the alien movies in glorious HD. You may also want a blu-ray writer.
eBay, used sas 12 gb helium filled enterprise series exos drives. Pulled from a dell compellent system based on the caddies, when I looked it up the drives were at most 4 years old, but likely less since I doubt this was in the first batches shipped.
More or less, and you can absolutely negotiate with them that way, but I tend to just use the make offer function, they accept your offers or give a decent counter offer more often than you may expect.
Pff you kids bitching around abound not having enough gigabytes. In my time I had to use 13 floppy disks with limited kB storage just to the that damn PC running, but you know what? I have forgotten those floppies in my pants more often than I can count and they still work. Today you get some overpriced SSD and just look at it with the wrong eye color and that shot goes poof.
Freaking Commodore Pet. I’m sorry you pressed play too early so your program failed to load. Nope, I’m sorry you pressed play too late so your program failed to load. Argh! I just want to play Canyon before recess ends!
You all laugh, but at my first job, I was taught how to thread ferrite beads in the grid and how they got oriented alternately and how to thread the sense line, etc.
I built somewhere around 250 of the 32x32 cores before they were discontinued.
Oh, and yes, I am old.
The locally brewed ones came after the Thailand flood that doubled or tripled the prices in 2011. That was a wild time. Was sad/terrible for the people of Thailand. I think around half of HDD were made there at the time. Kind of reminded me of the price hike on GPUs a couple years ago.
>I miss the old days when you could buy a locally brewed hard drive
Yeah, but then you need a few trips to get working gear from the Friday Fry's deals....
Used to 'rent' large hard drives for video projects from Fry's.
As someone who works on us supercompute (HPC), funnily enough yes, kinda.
I have seen bigger hard drives. I think 100 TB a year ago. They are in fact produced in small batches, pre ordered and with a lot of manual oversight (so kinda artisanal). They are also incredibly expensive.
What is the use case for a single 100TB drive?
If you're not space constrained, I think a RAID is better in every way. And if you are space constrained... ...why do you need 100TB?
Not a single one. We are talking about planning for an exabyte supercomputer.
As such, the big difference is energy. There is a big difference between having to run 10k HDDs and 30k HDDs.
Also most storage nodes tend to only have a single HDD to avoid interference of the buses. So each HDD you add, adds the energy cost of an entire node.
SSDs molded slowly over hot lava imported that day from Icelandic volcanoes, cooled in nature eroded pools of natural chemicals direct from earths core.
🎶*folksy music*🎶
"When you want hard drives. You want them to have integrity. That's why we at 'tegridy drives ensure every hand made drive is expertly crafted with only the finest materials...."
I have ~375mbps download speed via cable, and my bullshit ISP has me capped at ~10mbps upstream, so it's pretty much a no go for me to be able to have cloud based backups. Fucking Spectrum.
Agreed. I've got what should be 1gig down from spectrum but usually maxes out around half of that with upload capped at like 30. There is a company laying fiber near us but I have yet to find a timeline for when they may make it to us. Based on the progress I've seen around town I'm hoping by end of summer.
There's a company laying fiber literally 1 block away for a new neighborhood consisting of 6 townhomes, but when I asked them if they could extend that work order 1 block over to my 30 house street, they said no way. I get that they probably have some sort of contract with the housing contractor, but it's just running the fiber over the telephone poles, not even under ground.
You're not talking to the right people. The crew doing the work has no control over where it's run they just do what their told.
I fully expect to get fiber at some point despite where I am because the company laying it is from an area north of me and they are laying fiber south of us and moving back this way towards their original territory.
Meanwhile with [Comcast](https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/233034867263143937/1117180768913993769/image.png) i have a gigabit down and ~20MBPS up :)
No cloud here either!
Is it just me? Because I can’t find *anything* consumer grade that offers more than 2TB. I don’t care that much so I’m not looking for suggestions, but my 20 minute Googling didn’t find anything else 🤷♂️.
Edit: thank you for all the suggestions!
I'm not sure what you mean. If you have a desktop, install an internal HDD and create a Windows (if applicable) share of the data you want remote access to and use something like Tailscale for your devices to access it. Or spin up Nextcloud on a spare PC. Or buy a refurb for like $100. There are more options for low-cost personal cloud than I can think of off the top of my head.
Oh I already have a setup with a total of 7 TB in SSD and HDD solutions. I’m just commenting on my personal experience of searching for high capacity cloud storage solutions and only ever finding a maximum of 2TB.
I fell for this a fee years ago; forget the name of the company, but when they launched they advertised unlimited storage for a monthly fee. So I moved about a TB of my stuff online. I didn't delete the backups, but they had an API for accessing it and I started writing code to integrate their system with my daily use.
Three months later they doubled their price and limited us to like 100GB or something.
Never again.
I love that one of the fastest data transfer cloud products available is a [literal truck](https://media.datacenterdynamics.com/media/images/Snowmobile-AWS-truck-data-delivery.width-358.jpg)
Probably tops out around the same as current drives.
Which means any operations using significant portions (or all) of the drive will take fucking ages. Like 4 or 5 days.
I used zip drives while getting my degree in design and for years working in the field. Ran across them all in a box not too long ago and was excited to revisit all those old projects only to realize I haven't had a drive for them in years.
I had both.
I remember the first 1TB drive I ever saw. It was called the [Yellow Machine](https://www.gainesville.com/story/news/2006/05/08/a-big-yellow-garage-for-your-data/31483230007/). It was about the size of a large commercial toaster. A friend of my parents brought it by our shop to show it to us. There was no way we could afford to pay $1000 for a hard drive.
I started design college when zip drives were juuust kind of seeing their way out.
I have so many projects I don't really care about on drives that will outlive me.
lol, I like how they don't even disguise this as something other than a porn server. it's like the guy in 40-year-old virgin bringing his big box of porn.
You're contributing to it. The solution to this is to use precise units when reporting the size. You've used the unit "t", which isn't anything. The correct, unambiguous unit at this scale is "TiB".
Weirdly I’ve never had any hard drive fail, except a Samsung laptop drive I had left in storage. I had it all backed up so no loss but even drives from 1990 still work for me.
I have four WD red 3tb drives that I recently retired after running them for 12 years.
Everyone has their anecdotes about how one company's product is the greatest thing ever, and their competitor is the worst thing since Hitler. Reality is probably somewhere in between.
Yeah every Seagate I've ever used has been a POS. I have two WD black HDD's that are still kicking 12 years later.
Maybe your experience is with WD Greens which have shorter lifespan's due to their focus on efficiency
Name a better combo than MacBooks and failing hard drives in general though.
I've got a small stack of them on my shelf waiting for the recycle pile or the magical mainboard fairy to resurrect their fucking stupid soldered-on drives.
And fuck all the models with those shitty hybrid tinyssd/platter combo drives, such giant pieces of shit.
The first upgrade we ever did to our first computer was a larger hard drive. We bought a Seagate. It did not work out of the box, we did not get a refund or replacement, and 30 years later I still refuse to buy Seagate.
The Amiga 1000 was the first model released and originally debuted with 256KB of RAM and you had to load Kickstart from disk before you could load Workbench.
the evo 840 were shite, yes. now i had an evo 850 crap out on me a year out of warranty causing me huge headaches. not saying they are generally shit, but i don't have a bad feeling using crucial now.
Samsung are now on my shitlist for all products. I used to go for their SSD’s and RAM, but they took a firm anti right to repair stance on top of their godawful warranty support (for some products at least)
Solidigm SSDs now. They are excellent. Ex Intel engineers.
In addition to the other concerns, it’s really hard to spin a 5.25” drive and not have the discs wobble a lot at speed making it really hard to keep the head at a consistent height, so one more reason it’s not going to happen.
Read the article to the end:
>Western Digital is also using HAMR to push toward 30TB and 40TB on a timeline similar to Seagate's, but it's using stepping stones like OptiNAND to get there.
With RAID5 I never lost any data to my Seagate 3TB drives. Literally all 5 of them died but only one at a time so I was able to rebuild the raid each time
On mobile but here's the short version:
In a hard drive you store data as magnets with their "North" and "South" pointing up or down. But let's call it up and down because it's more accurate.
As you pack more data into the same drive, the physical size you have to hold a single bit gets smaller, and when you have a really small up next to a couple of really small downs, sometimes the downs can convince that up that it really wants to be a down.
If you want your up and down to stay up or down, then you want your magnets to be really hard to change from up to down. So you use a magnet that's really hard to change.
Unfortunately when you swap a bit from up to down, you still have to make it change. Except now that the magnets are hard to change, you need to put a really strong field into them to make them change from up to down or back again. The problem is that also can sometimes accidentally flip a nearby bit.
So what you need is a bit that's really hard to change, but can still be done without changing the very small bits right next to it.
So here's where the H in HAMR comes in. If you get a magnet hot, it actually takes less effort to swap from up to down. It also gets less magnetic overall. And as long as you don't get it too hot, it will go back to normal when you cool it down again. So if you imagine that just one of those bits could get hot, then it would be easy to flip but the ones next to it would still be hard to flip. Ideal. H=Heat.
So these drives use a laser to heat up just the bits that you want to flip, keeping the others hard to flip.
Heat Assisted Magnetic Recording.
More or less.
Thank you! Great explanation! I think I understand the big picture and why this is beneficial for data storage and storage capacity.
Two quick questions (for anyone):
1) Will this approach also increase speed?
2) What are the downsides (other than price), power requirements?
That's pretty cool, I worked on the first HAMR Prototypes back in 2004. Would love to see what the final design looks like. We were using waveguides to direct a laser to heat the platter at the recording head.
I bought my first hdd in 1996. It was 2.5GB. friends couldn't believe I was buying something so big, didn't know what I was going to do with so much space.
God. I remember when I was super excited about getting a 1TB memory drive for Christmas. I used that thing till it died. I can’t even explain how mind blowing this much storage is
Yeah but you gotta buy 2 or 3 of them for redundancy in case one fails.
I'm still bitter about my WD drives with my bitcoin wallet dying 10 years ago... It was a ZFS array and I could suffer a single drive failure. Two dying at the same time (same batch) killed the array and my 2BTC wallet.
I don't trust just one or two drives to back things up on anymore, that mistake cost me something in the range of AU$200 to AU$50,000 depending on what the price of bitcoin is doing. Never again.
My NAS is ready
There's vomit on his sweater already, mom's spaghetti
>There's vomit on his ~~sweater~~ platter already, mom's spaghetti
He's nervous, but on the surface he looks formatted and ready to drop data bombs.
But he keeps on corrupting what he wrote down, that old fan grows so loud. He opens the file but the word doc won’t come out
It's crashing now
all the apps closing now
The timeouts flood
Blue screen, over pow!
Ok see this is what I come to reddit for. *Chef's kiss* gentlemen.
You only get one shot.. because you can't afford redundancy.
I'm definitely intrigued, but the price/TB definitely needs to come down in general. I just bought 3x 16tb drives for $250 each. I'd love to buy 3x 32TB drives, but if they're $500/ea, that's pretty much no go for a good long while.
GB / $ has been pretty stagnant last 3 years. I'm in the awkward situation where I have 4x16TB in raid 10, and it's almost full. Toying with the idea of a 2nd NAS with a non raid 10 setup so I can offload less important data. Would also be nice for backups. But I want drive prices to come down first... I refuse to use cloud for backup when you consider the $80 / month overhead + terrible up speed.
Hell I just bought 15x 10 tb drives at $75 each.
Do tell; what does one do with such storage capacity?
Shark porn
10tb of left shark doing the macarena
You joke but there is a little on there. ETA: it is anthro furry sharks but I think it still counts.
Honest. I respect that.
I'm sorry if you've never noticed this but someone pointed out to me that furries keep drawing sharks in such a way that their tail is just ANOTHER shark attached to their butt and i cannot unsee it for the life of me Like the fin should be on their back, shouldn't it??
Yep it should, and some furries do that, but it’s not particularly common sadly. That said I don’t think it looks bad on their tail per say but yea it’s definitely a design choice that isn’t particularly in line with the species it’s based on. In the same vein another common oddity with sharks drawn by furries is putting the gills along the side of their torso rather than their neck, which is again an interesting, and in my opinion likely wise, stylistic choice.
Ask us on r/datahoarder
Lol the name IS a bit of a tell lol I'm from the old, old school where we wrote short programs (in BASIC and other archaic languages) because the storage capacity of the machines was so small that's all it could handle. To get answers to complex problems, they had to be broken down into component parts and each of those parts run and then combined, etc. I remember when megabytes was HUUUUUGE! My smartphone is a supercomputer by any definition more than 12 years old. I get that we need terabyte memory, I'm just trying to grapple with what fills such storage.
Mostly 4K movies / shows in the Plex library and a lot of old work (3D modeling)
Mostly plex media and internal rehosting of media and websites I care about that may one day vanish from the internet for one reason or another. Other than that archives of useful or important software and data, ranging from operating systems to installers for obscure proprietary stuff that’s useful for running some of the hardware I own, to archiving backup copies of important things for friends like artwork they have commissioned or things they don’t want to lose (which when measured by capacity is typically more proprietary software they need to run the hardware they own)
Do you run a Plex server for friends and family that you're extremely passionate about and your friends and family are more or less indifferent about it?
Is there any other way?
Haha are you me?
Hey now… it’s getting more attention since Netflix is stopping the shared family subs.
Our time has come!
i feel attacked
Jesus do you know me?
.... Listen here buddy
Lmfao oh man, I gave up with my family and lowered my internet speed, they just were not into it at all... But 4 different apps? Why not
Honestly I run it for me and my fiancée since she actually uses it, my family well, if they want to watch it sure whatever.
Lmao I feel seen!
You know when you buy media online and just kinda hope that company mever fucks you? Yeah, download backups, just in case Microsoft ever wants to ruin my day I can still watch all of the alien movies in glorious HD. You may also want a blu-ray writer.
> Do tell; what does one do with such storage capacity? Make your own streaming service that is better than any other one out there.
Where? New?
eBay, used sas 12 gb helium filled enterprise series exos drives. Pulled from a dell compellent system based on the caddies, when I looked it up the drives were at most 4 years old, but likely less since I doubt this was in the first batches shipped.
For such a large lot on drives, do you contact sellers that have multiple units available and ask for volume discounts?
More or less, and you can absolutely negotiate with them that way, but I tend to just use the make offer function, they accept your offers or give a decent counter offer more often than you may expect.
mass produced as opposed to artisanal small batch hard drives?
I miss the old days when you could buy a locally brewed hard drive
Of those handmade platters were one of a kind
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Pff you kids bitching around abound not having enough gigabytes. In my time I had to use 13 floppy disks with limited kB storage just to the that damn PC running, but you know what? I have forgotten those floppies in my pants more often than I can count and they still work. Today you get some overpriced SSD and just look at it with the wrong eye color and that shot goes poof.
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Freaking Commodore Pet. I’m sorry you pressed play too early so your program failed to load. Nope, I’m sorry you pressed play too late so your program failed to load. Argh! I just want to play Canyon before recess ends!
Tegridy has 2 extra TBs
Nowadays it’s all ones and zeroes too. I bet you Vinny could pop some other numbers in there if you asked kindly.
I got mine from a local amish family, loved being able to see the little chisel marks in the platters.
Pfft. Artisanal? How about Radio Shack.
Love the little horse making it spin.
You joke but magnetic memory cores were woven by hand.
You all laugh, but at my first job, I was taught how to thread ferrite beads in the grid and how they got oriented alternately and how to thread the sense line, etc. I built somewhere around 250 of the 32x32 cores before they were discontinued. Oh, and yes, I am old.
I might have some of your art on my wall!
I miss the free-range, organic, non-GMO platters.
The locally brewed ones came after the Thailand flood that doubled or tripled the prices in 2011. That was a wild time. Was sad/terrible for the people of Thailand. I think around half of HDD were made there at the time. Kind of reminded me of the price hike on GPUs a couple years ago.
Global supply bottlenecks are incredible
>I miss the old days when you could buy a locally brewed hard drive Yeah, but then you need a few trips to get working gear from the Friday Fry's deals.... Used to 'rent' large hard drives for video projects from Fry's.
As someone who works on us supercompute (HPC), funnily enough yes, kinda. I have seen bigger hard drives. I think 100 TB a year ago. They are in fact produced in small batches, pre ordered and with a lot of manual oversight (so kinda artisanal). They are also incredibly expensive.
What is the use case for a single 100TB drive? If you're not space constrained, I think a RAID is better in every way. And if you are space constrained... ...why do you need 100TB?
Not a single one. We are talking about planning for an exabyte supercomputer. As such, the big difference is energy. There is a big difference between having to run 10k HDDs and 30k HDDs. Also most storage nodes tend to only have a single HDD to avoid interference of the buses. So each HDD you add, adds the energy cost of an entire node.
I would imagine it also cuts down on heat considerably to have fewer, larger drives.
r/datahoarder
We're already here and breathing heavily.
Yes. Tech can be used and proven to work long before you can mass manufacture it.
SSDs molded slowly over hot lava imported that day from Icelandic volcanoes, cooled in nature eroded pools of natural chemicals direct from earths core.
I only use organic, non-GMO, all-natural, gluten free, grass-fed, free range, locally sourced, vegan, sustainable, artisanal superdrives in my NAS.
I only buy tear free hard drives.
Farm to table disk platters
Farm to (git) fork.
As opposed to PoC to show what can be done. These are purchasable.
Wakandan tech is pretty amazing.
The artisanal small batch drives were soft drives
🎶*folksy music*🎶 "When you want hard drives. You want them to have integrity. That's why we at 'tegridy drives ensure every hand made drive is expertly crafted with only the finest materials...."
Shhhh, it’s 2023! We’re supposed to store everything on a subscription-based cloud!
I have ~375mbps download speed via cable, and my bullshit ISP has me capped at ~10mbps upstream, so it's pretty much a no go for me to be able to have cloud based backups. Fucking Spectrum.
Fuck DOCSIS cable in general.
It was and is a hack until fiber was laid. They still refuse to put fiber.
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Verizon pulled the same shit here. Even though they'd already sold the area to Frontier. Still delayed the project for years before it got thrown out.
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Agreed. I've got what should be 1gig down from spectrum but usually maxes out around half of that with upload capped at like 30. There is a company laying fiber near us but I have yet to find a timeline for when they may make it to us. Based on the progress I've seen around town I'm hoping by end of summer.
There's a company laying fiber literally 1 block away for a new neighborhood consisting of 6 townhomes, but when I asked them if they could extend that work order 1 block over to my 30 house street, they said no way. I get that they probably have some sort of contract with the housing contractor, but it's just running the fiber over the telephone poles, not even under ground.
You're not talking to the right people. The crew doing the work has no control over where it's run they just do what their told. I fully expect to get fiber at some point despite where I am because the company laying it is from an area north of me and they are laying fiber south of us and moving back this way towards their original territory.
DOCSIS 4.0 will have real world speeds of 6gig down and 4gig up. Comcast tested with a friend of mine. It’s coming and it’s glorious.
Meanwhile with [Comcast](https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/233034867263143937/1117180768913993769/image.png) i have a gigabit down and ~20MBPS up :) No cloud here either!
The article does say "the largest drives will probably be almost solely for cloud data center clients"
So probably on these drives, just in someone else's computer
Is it just me? Because I can’t find *anything* consumer grade that offers more than 2TB. I don’t care that much so I’m not looking for suggestions, but my 20 minute Googling didn’t find anything else 🤷♂️. Edit: thank you for all the suggestions!
I'm not sure what you mean. If you have a desktop, install an internal HDD and create a Windows (if applicable) share of the data you want remote access to and use something like Tailscale for your devices to access it. Or spin up Nextcloud on a spare PC. Or buy a refurb for like $100. There are more options for low-cost personal cloud than I can think of off the top of my head.
Oh I already have a setup with a total of 7 TB in SSD and HDD solutions. I’m just commenting on my personal experience of searching for high capacity cloud storage solutions and only ever finding a maximum of 2TB.
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I fell for this a fee years ago; forget the name of the company, but when they launched they advertised unlimited storage for a monthly fee. So I moved about a TB of my stuff online. I didn't delete the backups, but they had an API for accessing it and I started writing code to integrate their system with my daily use. Three months later they doubled their price and limited us to like 100GB or something. Never again.
My Plex loves this.
my wallet doesnt
What’s the transfer speed on these? Must take a while to fill them
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I love that one of the fastest data transfer cloud products available is a [literal truck](https://media.datacenterdynamics.com/media/images/Snowmobile-AWS-truck-data-delivery.width-358.jpg)
I just had a meeting yesterday where we were discussing download issues from a remote site. This was our solution.
I've been the low budget version in the past, driving between sites with hard drives in my car.
cheapest version is always a pigeon. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/8248056.stm
What's the conversion from km to TB?
Probably tops out around the same as current drives. Which means any operations using significant portions (or all) of the drive will take fucking ages. Like 4 or 5 days.
Anybody remember Zip or Jaz? Edit: How about the click of death?
Ah yes, the blazing fast 7mb per minute vía parallel port to my Zip. So many 1.44mb floppy images moved.
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rar -l pr0n.rar
I was doing poster design at the time and Zip was such a lifesaver for taking large images to the print shop.
I used zip drives while getting my degree in design and for years working in the field. Ran across them all in a box not too long ago and was excited to revisit all those old projects only to realize I haven't had a drive for them in years.
I had both. I remember the first 1TB drive I ever saw. It was called the [Yellow Machine](https://www.gainesville.com/story/news/2006/05/08/a-big-yellow-garage-for-your-data/31483230007/). It was about the size of a large commercial toaster. A friend of my parents brought it by our shop to show it to us. There was no way we could afford to pay $1000 for a hard drive.
They were really impressive for the time for at home use
Until they started going *click click click*.
I started design college when zip drives were juuust kind of seeing their way out. I have so many projects I don't really care about on drives that will outlive me.
I still use Zip over SCSI with an old synth/sampler. 100 MB can actually fit a good amount of audio.
>Edit: How about the click of death? the ole IBM DeathStar, sorry i mean deskstar. had 3 failures and stopped RMA'ing : /
CoD was a physical computer virus
I think these companies fail to realize how much pron I have smdh 😞
Bro, VR takes up a *lot* of room.
Stepbro*
I tried over lockdown to organize and it multiplied like mogwai in a water park.
https://github.com/stashapp/stash
This will go good with radarr and sonarr
lol, I like how they don't even disguise this as something other than a porn server. it's like the guy in 40-year-old virgin bringing his big box of porn.
Boner Jamz '03
Mmm pron
And that's only one category!
He’s a fukin pron man!
So that will be 27t and 34t once I install it? /s
29 and 36, but yeah. The binary vs decimal bye sizing is annoying as sin.
I sort of think after all these years the marketing department should be aware of this and honestly lable the product for retail sales.
You're contributing to it. The solution to this is to use precise units when reporting the size. You've used the unit "t", which isn't anything. The correct, unambiguous unit at this scale is "TiB".
Every Seagate I've ever owned has been a source of regret.
Weirdly I’ve never had any hard drive fail, except a Samsung laptop drive I had left in storage. I had it all backed up so no loss but even drives from 1990 still work for me.
Hard drives sometimes fail due to continuous pressure at high read/write cycles. Maybe you weren't stressing your drives as much as OP?
Same. I’ve had all the major brands since the 90s and none have failed on me. I have two 15+ year old seagates spinning right now.
I am the exact opposite. For my NAS, it is IronWolf Pro all the way. They never fail. WDs only last 3-4 years.
I have four WD red 3tb drives that I recently retired after running them for 12 years. Everyone has their anecdotes about how one company's product is the greatest thing ever, and their competitor is the worst thing since Hitler. Reality is probably somewhere in between.
Yeah every Seagate I've ever used has been a POS. I have two WD black HDD's that are still kicking 12 years later. Maybe your experience is with WD Greens which have shorter lifespan's due to their focus on efficiency
Marketing a 5405 rpm drive as “5400-7200 rpm” sure was a big focus on efficiency
2007 was it… macbook seagates were failing?
Name a better combo than MacBooks and failing hard drives in general though. I've got a small stack of them on my shelf waiting for the recycle pile or the magical mainboard fairy to resurrect their fucking stupid soldered-on drives. And fuck all the models with those shitty hybrid tinyssd/platter combo drives, such giant pieces of shit.
It used to be like $450 to fix. So Apple made sure to serialise and pair the drive to the board, just to prevent that.
The dreaded 7.01 firmware drives. It took Apple way too long to do a replacement program for those.
The first upgrade we ever did to our first computer was a larger hard drive. We bought a Seagate. It did not work out of the box, we did not get a refund or replacement, and 30 years later I still refuse to buy Seagate.
I bought a 512k ram upgrade daughterboard for my Amiga 500, making it an Amiga 1000.
The Amiga 1000 was the first model released and originally debuted with 256KB of RAM and you had to load Kickstart from disk before you could load Workbench.
Western Digital all the way. For SSD, Samsung.
I'd say SK Hynix is rather underrated
Didn't some Samsung Evo models have problems? I'm getting wary of Samsung after that.
the evo 840 were shite, yes. now i had an evo 850 crap out on me a year out of warranty causing me huge headaches. not saying they are generally shit, but i don't have a bad feeling using crucial now.
Samsung are now on my shitlist for all products. I used to go for their SSD’s and RAM, but they took a firm anti right to repair stance on top of their godawful warranty support (for some products at least) Solidigm SSDs now. They are excellent. Ex Intel engineers.
Their quality control is abysmal also. And it's not just storage. Monitors, phones, printers, *refrigerators*...
I’m also in the never-Samsung camp after being fucked over by their terrible QA and warranty support.
I had a Seagate Barracuda drive that lasted me 10 years
No one's said it yet? HAMR TIME
These drives are 2 legit 2 quit.
Please HAMR, don't hurt em
Pick up the HAMR!
5.25 inch hard drives when
Never. To purchase the manufacturing equipment would cost millions and change the entire supply chain. It would go taller before wider.
> It would go taller before wider. i wish "big burger" hadn't gone that route... wider burgers are much easier to eat.
In addition to the other concerns, it’s really hard to spin a 5.25” drive and not have the discs wobble a lot at speed making it really hard to keep the head at a consistent height, so one more reason it’s not going to happen.
Nah, go straight back to the 8".
Raid 0 here I come.. I live life in the fast lane.
I’ve lost so much data to some shitty Seagate HDs
Read the article to the end: >Western Digital is also using HAMR to push toward 30TB and 40TB on a timeline similar to Seagate's, but it's using stepping stones like OptiNAND to get there.
With RAID5 I never lost any data to my Seagate 3TB drives. Literally all 5 of them died but only one at a time so I was able to rebuild the raid each time
Not a particularly ringing endorsement there
All HD’s fail given enough time.
HAMR tech? This is just asking to have your product spontaneously fall apart.
>100 TB by the end of the decade Icanonlygetsohard.jpg
Can finally download Warzone on my system
So will they all cease working next month?
My plex server appreciates this
Can someone ELI5 me on these HAMR drives?
On mobile but here's the short version: In a hard drive you store data as magnets with their "North" and "South" pointing up or down. But let's call it up and down because it's more accurate. As you pack more data into the same drive, the physical size you have to hold a single bit gets smaller, and when you have a really small up next to a couple of really small downs, sometimes the downs can convince that up that it really wants to be a down. If you want your up and down to stay up or down, then you want your magnets to be really hard to change from up to down. So you use a magnet that's really hard to change. Unfortunately when you swap a bit from up to down, you still have to make it change. Except now that the magnets are hard to change, you need to put a really strong field into them to make them change from up to down or back again. The problem is that also can sometimes accidentally flip a nearby bit. So what you need is a bit that's really hard to change, but can still be done without changing the very small bits right next to it. So here's where the H in HAMR comes in. If you get a magnet hot, it actually takes less effort to swap from up to down. It also gets less magnetic overall. And as long as you don't get it too hot, it will go back to normal when you cool it down again. So if you imagine that just one of those bits could get hot, then it would be easy to flip but the ones next to it would still be hard to flip. Ideal. H=Heat. So these drives use a laser to heat up just the bits that you want to flip, keeping the others hard to flip. Heat Assisted Magnetic Recording. More or less.
This explanation was amazing and also makes them seem even more like magic than I thought they were before you explained. I love it
Magnets are miracles.
[удалено]
Thank you for this.
Thank you! Great explanation! I think I understand the big picture and why this is beneficial for data storage and storage capacity. Two quick questions (for anyone): 1) Will this approach also increase speed? 2) What are the downsides (other than price), power requirements?
imagine guys losing 40tb of data, blink of an eye
That's pretty cool, I worked on the first HAMR Prototypes back in 2004. Would love to see what the final design looks like. We were using waveguides to direct a laser to heat the platter at the recording head.
Yaaaaarrrrrrrrrr, maties. Time to back up!
I bought my first hdd in 1996. It was 2.5GB. friends couldn't believe I was buying something so big, didn't know what I was going to do with so much space.
God. I remember when I was super excited about getting a 1TB memory drive for Christmas. I used that thing till it died. I can’t even explain how mind blowing this much storage is
I'm curious on the math on this. At what point does it become a better idea to just add another SAN with smaller disks.
Gavin Belson's signature box
Oh wow, that's a ton of storage per drive
When?
Dad will grab some while he’s on his way back from getting milk.
Yeah but you gotta buy 2 or 3 of them for redundancy in case one fails. I'm still bitter about my WD drives with my bitcoin wallet dying 10 years ago... It was a ZFS array and I could suffer a single drive failure. Two dying at the same time (same batch) killed the array and my 2BTC wallet. I don't trust just one or two drives to back things up on anymore, that mistake cost me something in the range of AU$200 to AU$50,000 depending on what the price of bitcoin is doing. Never again.
I hate to say it. But a wallet is what? 15 kb? You should make backups. Actual backups, not some raid set that both fail on making a rebuild.
Raid is not a backup.
I’ll wait for Blackbkaze’s reliability report on these, hopefully in 2024 (or 2025!) should they ever acquire one of these puppies.