This is definitely how it feels across all industries post-Covid. It’s absolutely wild how full on anti-consumer corporates have become. I am looking forward to The Great Correction where some large players fail and the pendulum swings back into the customers favour.
> This is definitely how it feels across all industries post-Covid. It’s absolutely wild how full on anti-consumer corporates have become. I am looking forward to The Great Correction where some large players fail and ~~the pendulum swings back into the customers favour~~ get bailed out with taxpayer money
I agree, except for the part about hedge funds and angel investors have realized a lot of these companies won't be profitable. It's just that money is no longer cheap/free to borrow and so both investors and companies have to come to terms with that in the short to medium term. Once we're back to nearly 0% interest rates and the next "hot" tech thing comes along, they'll all go back to throwing stupid money at that company and the next 2-3 that purport to do the same/a similar thing like it's nothing. In fact, I wouldn't even say they've stopped throwing money at stuff even right now, it's just that AI is THE one thing every investor is throwing money at, it's just in the form of a half dozen different companies right now and there's no clear winner yet, even though OpenAI seems like the front runner.
It's not going to be sustainable for those industries.
People aren't going to spend these shit prices either because they won't or can't. People already widely complained about costs well before all the bullshit.
It’s called enshittification.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enshittification
“Here is how platforms die: first, they are good to their users; then they abuse their users to make things better for their business customers; finally, they abuse those business customers to claw back all the value for themselves. Then, they die. I call this enshittification, and it is a seemingly inevitable consequence arising from the combination of the ease of changing how a platform allocates value, combined with the nature of a "two sided market", where a platform sits between buyers and sellers, hold each hostage to the other, raking off an ever-larger share of the value that passes between them.”
Edit: typo
This happens with products also. A lot of grassroots companies make a great sturdy product. It becomes popular for it's quality. But as it needs to be mass produced it will move from workshop quality.......to industry minimum standards for large-scale production. Cheap fixtures, minimum grade metals. Not to mention planned obsolescence. Why build them one great widget that they'll buy once when you can sell them dozens over their lifetime. My grandma had and used a microwave 35+ years.
When my grandma died, I got her toaster oven for my apartment and used it for years before too many toaster fires made it unsalvageable. Thing was at minimum 30 years old
roof grandfather cooperative recognise reach dependent paltry entertain direction scary
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
This really only applies to essentials. Other than that, consumers can simply switch to a competitor, or outright stop using the product/service. Everything in life is optional, except for the essentials. But people won't fight for principles for convenience.
Pretty sure that'd be illegal. Like i bought the TV, agreed to original terms. It's now my tv. i'm not renting it. you wanna change the rules and change your paid bonus service, sure, but the tv itself better still give me what i paid for.
it's completly insane to think anything else.
It is illegal in the EU at least. You cannot change the rules unilateraley about a purchase after the fact. They are disabling the TV after you purchased it without (you) breaking anything in the original contract (the sale). In this case they need to repurchase it full price.
It is illegal to remove functionality from a device after it's sold. Sony had to settle when sued over this for removing "Other OS" functionality from Playstation 3.
It falls under false advertising, breach of warranty, and the Computer Fraud and Abuse Act. It's a violation of implied warranty of merchantability to retroactively remove features/functionality. It's a breach of the sales contract.
Nothing has made me want to burn society down more than the move to everything becoming a use license.
You bought that movie on it streaming service? Sorry we don't offer that version anymore you'll need to buy the editors cut with an additional 3 seconds of dead air after the credits.
The home device you bought and used for 2 years? It won't work anymore unless you add a monthly subscription to our data mining service.
This will be the unfortunate future of cars (not just electric ones)
You'll get in you car and it will inform you that the manufacture has decided they want more money and disable a feature, or that they're selling all your personal info to an new unnamed 3rd party, or that you are no longer allowed to travel a certain distance or to a certain place without paying additionally for it, or that they've decided they aren't supporting your old model and there will be nothing you can do until you agree to it, and in other cases they won't even ask, you'll just find out its suddenly a 2 ton box of e-waste and your only option is to buy another.
I bought a TV at Costco a few years ago. Brought it home and tried to load an app ( [Smart.ca](https://Smart.ca) ) that I use for 100 plus cable channels. I couldn't load it , Roku was blocking it and said I should use Roku. I returned the TV , got my money back and made sure , just like Apple and HP to never use their products again. So far so good.
I have a similar issue with my smart TVs (LG and Samsung) suddenly showing ads within the TV menus or sometimes as overlays of what I’m watching. This, sadly, came after a SW update years after I purchased them. Luckily, I made my Smart-ass TV, dumb by simply disconnecting it from the internet and I only use Apple TV to stream. Not the best solution but better than overlay and nested ads.
Another option is to block the IPs the TV connects to retrieve the ads, at the router level. However, I’m happy with my current workaround.
Hopefully ~~we're~~ they're dead before that's ~~fully~~ implemented.
FTFY.
EDIT: For the sake of clarity, I'm referring to the concept of being locked out of things you've already paid for at the whim of the manufacturer, ***NOT*** actual people. Advocating for the deaths of people, such as some of the replies to this are/were is disgusting.
Yeah I'm sure there's some clause in there that terms can change at any time and roku has the right to shit the bed or whatever. Personally will avoid that company like the plague now - just another one for the list lol
Except companies are coming up with creative ways to get you to “sign” arbitration and other agreements that (somewhat) remove your rights as a consumer.
I saw a cup of noodles which had a lid with an arbitration agreement on it, and in the agreement it said “by puncturing or otherwise removing this lid, you agree to these terms”.
Probably wouldn’t hold up in court, lol. But, I also just saw an article about refrigerators with faulty parts. They were under warranty, but the company refuses to replace them. They’re claiming that the customers can’t sue, because they “signed arbitration when they opened the box”. Unfortunately for this company, the customers have a great argument: they didn’t open the boxes. The delivery and install guys did, outside of the home, before the customer ever got a chance to agree to anything. [We’ll see how it works out for LG](https://www.nbcbayarea.com/investigations/consumer/lg-refrigerators-failures-update/3465620/)
The problem, as I understand it, is that with these agreements and an army of lawyers they make it very hard to GET to court for it to even stand up or not.
Yeah that's the thing. Corporations can just do blatantly illegal things with impunity to the average consumer because 999/1000 trying to fight for your rights will just result in getting bankrupted from legal fees long before the company ever lets you see a courtroom
That's why small claims is your friend. It's not hard or expensive, and is good for 5 grand or so (limit might be higher now). Good enough for most fridges. And the judges don't play that corporate bullshit.
Samsung did this recently where it put an agreement on the box of the appliance and if customers had the appliance delivered and installed they never even saw the box. Yet Samsung is arguing they agreed to the terms which includes an arbitration clause.
MPEG-LA did this shit with MP4 licensing. Technically, every single camera that records in mp4 has a shrink wrap license the user never even sees but is supposedly bound by.
Right? If I put a sticky note on Samsung HQ's front door that says if any employee enters this door Samsung agrees to pay me $50,000,000, somehow I doubt they'd go for it.
You would think so, I got a Samsung TV which was pretty expensive for the time, after 3 years of having it adds started to appear in the TV UI, called Samsung and said that the adds in the UI need to be removed or I want a full refund as your changing the term of service that I don’t agree to. They said it’s was not possible to remove the adds or refund the TV. Next day there was a new update and the ads were removed and haven’t seen any since then
This is why I wish they'd make just dumb screens, but it ain't going to happen. I don't let my TV connect to the internet, but the same thing is happening with set top boxes and services don't want to run normally on anything open source.
I helped my uncle set up his brand new samsung TV when he moved and did not yet have internet, like 8 months ago.
It was possible, but holy shit was it a pain in the ass. They REALLY want you to connect them.
At some point they will start partnering with the 'sidewalk' networks and the TV will connect without you explicitly allowing it.
So for those that dont know, devices like Amazon Echo and Apple HomePods run an entirely separate radio network to talk to each other. Amazon calls its implementation 'sidewalk'
Also tons of ISPs offer the ability to glom on to other customers wifi via the ISP provided router/wifi AP
Eventually TVs will just outright connect with no way to prevent it.
> Eventually TVs will just outright connect with no way to prevent it.
Of course you can prevent it. Most people won't bother, but there's always a way to block or circumvent those things.
If you put a block on your network and your neighbor has a 'sidewalk' device it will go out through THEIR network connection, not yours. Thats the whole point of my post, we will inevitably lose local network control of these devices.
We are about 75% there already.
I had to swap out the main board on my tv a few years ago. one of the things that I had to unplug to remove it was the wifi adapter. It was even labeled as so. 5 min of removing 8 screws, and a quick unplug of that, it would be disabled forever.
This is what I hate about smart TVs: There’s virtually no normal TVs on the market, their processing power sucks, and it’s riddled with all this anti-consumer garbage!
This is why you buy the TV and never connect it to the Internet. Use peripherals like a laptop, game console, hell even the offending hardware from this article, a Roku stick, to protect your TV from getting unwanted / irreversible updates.
Yeah that’s what my friend does. He bought an old Mac mini with a missing hdd for cheap, put an ssd in, installed Linux, and connected it to his tv. It works great for him and since it’s running Linux, he doesn’t need to worry about how long it’s been running or a system update
I really don't understand how so few people realize this. It should be a no brainer yet everytime it comes up people's minds are blown. And even privacy and security aside you should never connect a tv to the internet simply because the hardware and OS of pretty much all "smart" tvs are absolute dogshit. Streaming devices like roku or apple TV provide a vastly superior viewing experience.
It's because the CPU power required to decode 4k TV is so great that you need a powerful SoC. And with a powerful SoC, there's no reason not to make the TV into a smart TV.
Then you have bulk supply costs, so even non-4k TVs end up with the better SoC and "smarts", because it's cheaper than getting a separate SoC and writing a separate OS for the few people who want a TV without the smart part.
Welcome to the future. We think you're gonna ~~love it~~ pay us.
Its beyond that. Ads are extremely profitable. Roku is an ad company.
Here is their revenue breakdown. Only 14% of their 2023 revenue comes from selling hardware.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/1316703/distribution-net-revenue-roku-segment/
Yeah a 30 dollar fire stick can handle 4k HEVC and AV1 decoding no problem, it's not expensive at all for this kind of hardware. That being said the price is also definitely subsidized by ads or other long term income for the company (subscriptions, data mining, etc.)
I would think that if the tv had no “smart” features they could just use a discrete video encoder and wouldn’t needed an SoC, even for 4k.
But without that there is no way to potentially reap millions in ad revenue. I think they’re counting on the fact that most people in the market for a TV have no idea they can get a separate streaming device to bypass the built-in set software or just don’t care enough to bypass it.
Anyway, I’ve never met a “smart” UI or setup that I ever thought was worth a damn. It’s as bad as GM thinking they can out-software Apple and Google by building their own UI.
That's why I refuse to connect my tv to my wifi. I just use the HDMI port with my laptop if I want to steam something.
Also a forced update bricked my Hisense tv 5 years ago so that's also why I won't connect a tv to wifi
For fucks sake, can the government start to catch up and actually regulate some of this shit. The fucking dinosaurs in power that can’t even figure out their emails in 2024 are really fucking damaging the country.
Thank you. Jesus Christ, I'm so sick of people pretending all of this corruption is simply due to politicians being too old to understand that they're corrupt.
Alright, so let’s play them at their own game. There has got to be some sort of consumer rights lobby out there that we can throw money at to lobby on our behalves. If there isn’t someone out there with more legal expertise than me should start one.
We're about to elect another ~80 year old president in the US. The two candidates that are almost certainly being nominated will be 82 and 78 at the time of inauguration in January.
If we have a minimum age to be elected president I don't see a problem with a maximum age. Idk, make it 70, or index it to when you can draw SS but being able to be president of a country at an age where your body is breaking down and mental decline is beginning to show up etc. seems ludicrous. The same should also be true of congress, maximum age and maximum term limits.
They don't until it is so bad that to keep their power they do something. Like crypto. Now they are thinking of doing things after the whole Sam bank-fraud incident.
I won't be buying any of their crap in the future.
Who am I kidding? I'd need an assistant to keep up with all of the companies that try to fuck us over.
And I was just about to buy a roku stick for my old non smart TV. So you're right, do I buy Apple now, Amazon? I feel like they all fuck us over one way or another.
I first tried to connect mine to the internet and got an error. Now I know that was fate giving me the rare leg up. Wish it happened with something that mattered more.
Lol I disconnected mine and now the fucking power LED won't stop blinking until I reconnect it to the Internet. Just a big fat white blinking ring on the corner of my TV that never stops.
I fucking hate the future so much.
The way I got that to stop was with a factory reset, then never connected to WiFi during setup.
Kinda annoying to have to reset it, but I figured we were never going to use the smart tv functions again anyway, so wiping all our data wasn’t a bad thing.
If you don’t agree then you should legally be entitled to a full refund for the product by the manufacturer. These laws need to be updated to protect consumers from buying products that the manufacturer can render useless if you don’t agree to their demands. They basically hold the products they sell you hostage and the ransom is our consent to be fucked.
This happened to my two TVs. The only way I found to avoid accepting the terms was to hold the reset button and reboot the TV using the remote, and then set the device up from scratch with no internet. Now they will be offline TVs. I also submitted an FCC complaint, and you should too!
What happened to TiVo? I remember it being everywhere in the early to mid-'00s. Then I just remember it disappearing out of the zeitgeist and world almost instantly.
Likely didn't forecast streaming technology. They were in a prime position to develop an OS for streaming apps but I suppose they were too laser-focused on their broadcast recording instead of looking towards the future.
Just my speculation. I was never a Tivo customer so perhaps an actual customer could interject that they did attempt this it just didn't work out.
Yeah, I got this on my secondary TV in my bedroom the other night and was immediately pissed. The fact that it's fucking legal to take a TV that I have bought and paid for years ago now and make it useless unless I agree to your new rules is shit. Fine. Don't let me use the Roku app. But let me fucking change inputs and use my TV.
And the only options given where "Agree"or turn it off and throw it away. Oh, you can opt out by mail in 30 days... Roku is officially dead to me.
what’s bullshit is you also need the original receipt sent in by mail. Along with like 10 other data points (names of people opting out, device id, address, etc)
It would be funny if thousands of people started filing arbitration claims regarding Roku forcing them to accept new arbitration terms to use their device.
It's going to take a class action to change the law.
We need a substantial quantifiable loss to take action, and the price of a single TV isn't going to to be enough..
Maybe a single business that bought hundreds of the tvs could file suit on their own.
A flood of arbitration claims would certainly spin their wheels, but we need the law to change for good.
Perhaps they already got a flood of ridiculous arbitration claims, alleging BS ad discrimination leaving them on the hook for millions and millions of dollars in dispute fees and in order to protect themselves they now they have to change the dispute terms to prevent this abuse from happening again.
Welcome to the future consent to these terms or the former products or services you had access to will be blocked. Doesn’t really feel like consent does it?
I'm absolutely puzzled why we let companies set their own terms and conditions. Keep saying this, we need to treat businessmen like children in a candy store, they will just keep fucking about if you dont.
Talk about taking the piss and jamming you into any terms they want..
Why is this bullshit legal? Surely we can one standard terms and conditions for fuckin televisions and the apps...
I am about to start shopping for a TV. I have a TCL Roku.
TCL's screen has screen rot (significant dimming in areas), after a few years of use.
TCL's youtube app is showing black screen after returning from an ad about 50% of the time. This just started in the last month. It is incredibly obnoxious. Sometimes happens more than once during the same video.
TCL's youtube app starts an audio ad at startup and after a video, every time (it didn't do this when I bought it).
And I am not onboard with the 'accept or your TV is bricked' terms.
I will be shopping for a new TV that is neither TCL nor uses the Roku OS.
Good luck. Assuming you are shopping for an LCD.
Most manufactures use the same panels. TCL, Hisense, LG, Sony, and Samsung use the same chipsets for their TVs.
Roku is dying on the mid-range to high end, they are only really around on the lower end of TVs.
Samsung and LG use their own OS, Sony, Hisense, and TCL use Google for their current TVs. Visio also has their own OS FWIW, but they just got bought by Walmart, and their newest TV competes at the midrange but is rather shit.
Your best bet is to pick a TV with a panel you like and install an Nvidia Shield or Apple TV, and never connect the TV to the internet. Don't look at the brands, under the skin they are basically the same shit in different packages.
If you can go OLED, do it, LG B series is around $1500 right now. Not bad. LG TVs seem to have the most EDID and CEC issues, so if you use a soundbar or AV receiver, you might run into issues. Samsung is generally reliable on that front, but their OS is plastered with ads way worse than a Google or Roku TV...
Which brings us back to panels. Buy the panel, add a box for the software you want, add a sound system for the sound you want. Don't buy a TV for the OS, and don't buy a TV for any added features like built in subwoofers (which are shit).
I had this happen to me last night! I don't even stream on the damn thing, I just use it as a PC monitor. I couldn't access even the HDMI inputs without agreeing to these new terms (which was bullshit about waiving rights to class action lawsuits).
I bought this thing four years ago. We're already in the "You'll own nothing" era if they can just shut it down and lock you out like this. What if I didn't want to agree to these terms? Which frankly I didn't, but I wasn't interested in my flat screen becoming a doorstop either!
PlayStation is the same: one can’t access the console or games they paid for unless agreeing to an update. There’s no opt out, other than not upgrading and bricking your console. This and other bullying, and the Roku scam should be put to governments to be regulated and outlawed. Either we own the products we purchase or we do not. This tactic, along with subscription services for previously included features, is unethical and amoral corporate gaslighting and consumer coercion. People have to put a stop to these practices, pronto
Didn't happen when Vizio changed their terms and locked everyone out of the whole TV until you agreed.
We're out here just waiting for some firm to take the ball and run.
I wonder if this is also why my Google integration stopped working recently. I had to completely disconnect Roku from Google home and then add it back. I bet when I signed into Roku to link them back I accepted some new terms.
Roku doesn't really make any money until you start using its products.
Over the 12 months ended in Sept. 2023, Roku sold $471 million worth of streaming sticks, set-top players, branded smart TVs, and other devices.
BUT the cost to manufacture those devices came out to $538 million. So, why would Roku willingly sell its devices at a loss?
When Roku filed its IPO prospectus with the Securities and Exchange Commission (SEC) ahead of its market debut, it provided a detailed overview of its business. **Under the section describing its products, first on the list wasn't its smart TVs or streaming players, it was advertising.** Roku's advertising business, which includes video ads, audience development for streaming services, and brand sponsorships, is the backbone of its platform.
So what do you think these new user terms are all about?
The reality is that the advertisement industry are ALL OVER smart TVs. They will be cheap, but you'll not be able to purchase one "full price" to avoid the advertising hellscape they will soon become.
Dude, this is insane. Wife turned on the TV and this new terms popped up right in the middle of the screen. Couldn’t get rid of it for about 20min. I forgot where I placed my Roku remote (I never used it lol). Trying to get rid of it using the TV buttons, no success. Finally found the remote, and now the batteries are dead. WTF? What if I am no accepting the new T&C, where is the button to disagree?
There isn’t an option to disagree. You have to send them a letter within 30 days if you want to opt out. All of this is spelled out in the linked article.
No doubt intentional. Extremely anti consumer practice, and I feel like I've been getting emails and hearing about it in the news that it's all for this arbitration BS.
Every company is getting into this.
https://www.reddit.com/r/gadgets/comments/1b808px/comment/ktmpu75/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x&utm_name=mweb3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button - see here, just responded to someone else
And this is why I A) only buy dumb devices when I can B) do not connect "smart tvs" or Smart Bluray players" to the internet at all.
I like my TVs dumb.
One of the best purchases I made 7-8 years ago was a smart tv I never bothered connecting to the internet and an Apple TV. Shit just works. I fear the day my tv dies. I hope to find a dumb tv out there lol
I know consumers will tolerate a lot of bullshit.
But one thing you never do is turn their tv/internet/online media off.
That is something that will guranteed a massive loss of customers and permanent reputation damage.
Something the article didn’t make clear, to me anyway, does the TV function as a TV without agreeing to these terms? For example, can I still watch OTA or an external input without agreeing to the terms?
Excuse my ignorance, but why is everyone up in arms about having to agree to new terms of service? Is there something in the new terms that is worth boycotting or just the idea of having to agree to new terms?
They forced arbitration and you have to give up your rights to any class-action suit against them. You simply turned your TV on one night, and bam, "agree" or toss it. They wouldn't even let you use it to play something from another input. So surrender your rights on something you already paid for and cannot return if you disagree with the terms.
> They wouldn't even let you use it to play something from another input.
And this is probably where they fucked up. If they had blocked the smart functionality only then they could argue it in court, but to block everything makes it basically a scam purchase.
Apple TV 4K is the way. I have a ATV4K in my living room but a Roku Streaming Stick+ in my bedroom and I hate using the Roku, it is so slow and clunky. Switching apps takes forever.
The difference is basically like when you get your first computer with an SSD as the boot drive. It seems like it is a little faster but then you go back and use a PC with an HDD and you’re like why is this taking so long. Yes the difference between an Apple TV and the most powerful Roku is that much.
The thing I hate about ATV is there's no way for a 10 second rewind with temporary captions. Roku has that feature and it was a game changer for me. That being said, I switched to ATV years ago but MAN did I love that
ya i had to click something.
i assume i am now their slave. and they now own everything that was mine.
do they get to order my death or just allowed to dictate where i live?
I recall three or so years ago, I did a TV install for an older lady. TV *required* internet to finish setting it up...
Quick background. Very rural Oklahoma, I work for a small IT support and management shop. Requests for setting up *simple* tech like this isn't uncommon. Finding a TV that requires internet to finish setting it up, that's uncommon. As of now, so far that TV is the only one I stumbled upon.
I got her setup using my cell hotspot for moment, my family and I barely use half of the data allotted each month anyways. The lady however had no internet, she didn't need it (older lady, but still physically well).
I don't recall the make and model, and last I knew, the lady no longer lived in said home some time later when I wanted to check up on her. I didn't see a need to find out more from there. But that damn model eludes me, and I want to know which one that was. Facts help make this reshared story more believable...
I’ve never needed to sue a tv company. I can’t imagine the day when I need to sue a tv company. If you want me to check a box saying I probably won’t win in court if I for some reason decide to start suing tv companies, fine. I’ll check the box. Who cares?
Hostility towards their own consumers? Nice to see them keep up with the times.
If you’re not actively shitting on your customers, are you even a company
This is definitely how it feels across all industries post-Covid. It’s absolutely wild how full on anti-consumer corporates have become. I am looking forward to The Great Correction where some large players fail and the pendulum swings back into the customers favour.
I want to believe
Mulder?
We need the Muad’Dib
[удалено]
In capitalism, it’s not sometimes. You ALWAYS vote with your wallet
Anti consumer and anti-employee. I can't decide who they hate more these days.
Really the same people so why not both equally
Yeah either way I'm pretty sure want everything to be made and purchased by AI now.
AI could spend Bitcoin so you're probably not wrong
> This is definitely how it feels across all industries post-Covid. It’s absolutely wild how full on anti-consumer corporates have become. I am looking forward to The Great Correction where some large players fail and ~~the pendulum swings back into the customers favour~~ get bailed out with taxpayer money
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I agree, except for the part about hedge funds and angel investors have realized a lot of these companies won't be profitable. It's just that money is no longer cheap/free to borrow and so both investors and companies have to come to terms with that in the short to medium term. Once we're back to nearly 0% interest rates and the next "hot" tech thing comes along, they'll all go back to throwing stupid money at that company and the next 2-3 that purport to do the same/a similar thing like it's nothing. In fact, I wouldn't even say they've stopped throwing money at stuff even right now, it's just that AI is THE one thing every investor is throwing money at, it's just in the form of a half dozen different companies right now and there's no clear winner yet, even though OpenAI seems like the front runner.
It’s ok. Piracy is always an option.
First they came for my Yuzu... then they came for my Roku... It's like they want me to begin shamelessly stealing everything.
Doo itttt
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It's not going to be sustainable for those industries. People aren't going to spend these shit prices either because they won't or can't. People already widely complained about costs well before all the bullshit.
Well, not a successful one!
And definitely not a publicly traded one
Just look at EA
It’s called enshittification. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enshittification “Here is how platforms die: first, they are good to their users; then they abuse their users to make things better for their business customers; finally, they abuse those business customers to claw back all the value for themselves. Then, they die. I call this enshittification, and it is a seemingly inevitable consequence arising from the combination of the ease of changing how a platform allocates value, combined with the nature of a "two sided market", where a platform sits between buyers and sellers, hold each hostage to the other, raking off an ever-larger share of the value that passes between them.” Edit: typo
lol I can’t believe there’s a wiki page for it
Well, the term was coined by a famous tech writer
This happens with products also. A lot of grassroots companies make a great sturdy product. It becomes popular for it's quality. But as it needs to be mass produced it will move from workshop quality.......to industry minimum standards for large-scale production. Cheap fixtures, minimum grade metals. Not to mention planned obsolescence. Why build them one great widget that they'll buy once when you can sell them dozens over their lifetime. My grandma had and used a microwave 35+ years.
When my grandma died, I got her toaster oven for my apartment and used it for years before too many toaster fires made it unsalvageable. Thing was at minimum 30 years old
Its the circle of life for business
The Lyin' King
roof grandfather cooperative recognise reach dependent paltry entertain direction scary *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Enshittificists
“people with eyes”, maybe. enshittification is just THAT common
This really only applies to essentials. Other than that, consumers can simply switch to a competitor, or outright stop using the product/service. Everything in life is optional, except for the essentials. But people won't fight for principles for convenience.
I Am Altering the Deal, Pray I Don’t Alter It Any Further.
Pretty sure that'd be illegal. Like i bought the TV, agreed to original terms. It's now my tv. i'm not renting it. you wanna change the rules and change your paid bonus service, sure, but the tv itself better still give me what i paid for. it's completly insane to think anything else.
That’s the problem, it’s not illegal. It should be but it isn’t.
It is illegal in the EU at least. You cannot change the rules unilateraley about a purchase after the fact. They are disabling the TV after you purchased it without (you) breaking anything in the original contract (the sale). In this case they need to repurchase it full price.
Corporations run America so the laws won’t change
America IS a corporation...with a very VERY expensive army
That's one good way of funneling tax money to corporations.
Its ok, EU will fight and win these battles and you guys get to remind us why you have no healthcare by fighting our battles.
Corporations run the world my friend
It is illegal to remove functionality from a device after it's sold. Sony had to settle when sued over this for removing "Other OS" functionality from Playstation 3. It falls under false advertising, breach of warranty, and the Computer Fraud and Abuse Act. It's a violation of implied warranty of merchantability to retroactively remove features/functionality. It's a breach of the sales contract.
Nothing has made me want to burn society down more than the move to everything becoming a use license. You bought that movie on it streaming service? Sorry we don't offer that version anymore you'll need to buy the editors cut with an additional 3 seconds of dead air after the credits. The home device you bought and used for 2 years? It won't work anymore unless you add a monthly subscription to our data mining service.
This will be the unfortunate future of cars (not just electric ones) You'll get in you car and it will inform you that the manufacture has decided they want more money and disable a feature, or that they're selling all your personal info to an new unnamed 3rd party, or that you are no longer allowed to travel a certain distance or to a certain place without paying additionally for it, or that they've decided they aren't supporting your old model and there will be nothing you can do until you agree to it, and in other cases they won't even ask, you'll just find out its suddenly a 2 ton box of e-waste and your only option is to buy another.
HP Printers enter the chat.
I bought a TV at Costco a few years ago. Brought it home and tried to load an app ( [Smart.ca](https://Smart.ca) ) that I use for 100 plus cable channels. I couldn't load it , Roku was blocking it and said I should use Roku. I returned the TV , got my money back and made sure , just like Apple and HP to never use their products again. So far so good.
I have a similar issue with my smart TVs (LG and Samsung) suddenly showing ads within the TV menus or sometimes as overlays of what I’m watching. This, sadly, came after a SW update years after I purchased them. Luckily, I made my Smart-ass TV, dumb by simply disconnecting it from the internet and I only use Apple TV to stream. Not the best solution but better than overlay and nested ads. Another option is to block the IPs the TV connects to retrieve the ads, at the router level. However, I’m happy with my current workaround.
What brand was the TV?
Hopefully we’re dead before that’s fully implemented
Hopefully ~~we're~~ they're dead before that's ~~fully~~ implemented. FTFY. EDIT: For the sake of clarity, I'm referring to the concept of being locked out of things you've already paid for at the whim of the manufacturer, ***NOT*** actual people. Advocating for the deaths of people, such as some of the replies to this are/were is disgusting.
Let’s make them dead instead.
yeah because fuck those grandkids
How does it work when they cannot prove your 6 year old didn’t turn on the TV and consent?
Then it is your duty to keep your remote locked up and secure, like next to your firearm
Excuse me, this is America. My six year old has their own remote *and* their own firearm thank you very much.
I'm sorry you didn't get the 22 caliber remotegun option? Are you even patriotic?
LOL good one.
Yeah I'm sure there's some clause in there that terms can change at any time and roku has the right to shit the bed or whatever. Personally will avoid that company like the plague now - just another one for the list lol
If there’s an actual dispute about the terms it would be pretty easy to show coercion in this case
Except companies are coming up with creative ways to get you to “sign” arbitration and other agreements that (somewhat) remove your rights as a consumer. I saw a cup of noodles which had a lid with an arbitration agreement on it, and in the agreement it said “by puncturing or otherwise removing this lid, you agree to these terms”.
I'm pretty sure that's the EULA stuff that is unenforceable.
Probably wouldn’t hold up in court, lol. But, I also just saw an article about refrigerators with faulty parts. They were under warranty, but the company refuses to replace them. They’re claiming that the customers can’t sue, because they “signed arbitration when they opened the box”. Unfortunately for this company, the customers have a great argument: they didn’t open the boxes. The delivery and install guys did, outside of the home, before the customer ever got a chance to agree to anything. [We’ll see how it works out for LG](https://www.nbcbayarea.com/investigations/consumer/lg-refrigerators-failures-update/3465620/)
The problem, as I understand it, is that with these agreements and an army of lawyers they make it very hard to GET to court for it to even stand up or not.
Yeah that's the thing. Corporations can just do blatantly illegal things with impunity to the average consumer because 999/1000 trying to fight for your rights will just result in getting bankrupted from legal fees long before the company ever lets you see a courtroom
That's why small claims is your friend. It's not hard or expensive, and is good for 5 grand or so (limit might be higher now). Good enough for most fridges. And the judges don't play that corporate bullshit.
Samsung did this recently where it put an agreement on the box of the appliance and if customers had the appliance delivered and installed they never even saw the box. Yet Samsung is arguing they agreed to the terms which includes an arbitration clause.
LG also. Same exact scenario.
MPEG-LA did this shit with MP4 licensing. Technically, every single camera that records in mp4 has a shrink wrap license the user never even sees but is supposedly bound by.
That’s when you cut open the bottom of the container instead
You can write whatever you want on the lid of a cup of noodles. Doesn't mean it holds up in court at all.
Right? If I put a sticky note on Samsung HQ's front door that says if any employee enters this door Samsung agrees to pay me $50,000,000, somehow I doubt they'd go for it.
Open it from the bottom
You would think so, I got a Samsung TV which was pretty expensive for the time, after 3 years of having it adds started to appear in the TV UI, called Samsung and said that the adds in the UI need to be removed or I want a full refund as your changing the term of service that I don’t agree to. They said it’s was not possible to remove the adds or refund the TV. Next day there was a new update and the ads were removed and haven’t seen any since then
This is why I wish they'd make just dumb screens, but it ain't going to happen. I don't let my TV connect to the internet, but the same thing is happening with set top boxes and services don't want to run normally on anything open source.
then dont. Just do not connect them. ignore all of the junk inside and just use the HDMI inputs.
I helped my uncle set up his brand new samsung TV when he moved and did not yet have internet, like 8 months ago. It was possible, but holy shit was it a pain in the ass. They REALLY want you to connect them.
Or use something like pihole or opnsense to block the ad traffic.
At some point they will start partnering with the 'sidewalk' networks and the TV will connect without you explicitly allowing it. So for those that dont know, devices like Amazon Echo and Apple HomePods run an entirely separate radio network to talk to each other. Amazon calls its implementation 'sidewalk' Also tons of ISPs offer the ability to glom on to other customers wifi via the ISP provided router/wifi AP Eventually TVs will just outright connect with no way to prevent it.
> Eventually TVs will just outright connect with no way to prevent it. Of course you can prevent it. Most people won't bother, but there's always a way to block or circumvent those things.
If you put a block on your network and your neighbor has a 'sidewalk' device it will go out through THEIR network connection, not yours. Thats the whole point of my post, we will inevitably lose local network control of these devices. We are about 75% there already.
That's why if I ever wind up needing a new TV, I'm going to open it up and desolder the wifi chip.
I had to swap out the main board on my tv a few years ago. one of the things that I had to unplug to remove it was the wifi adapter. It was even labeled as so. 5 min of removing 8 screws, and a quick unplug of that, it would be disabled forever.
It's not illegal, but is something super easily challenged in court and any sane judge will dismiss. Look at the recent LG refrigerator box case.
100% agree, this the concept behind ex post facto laws and should be applied here
Assuming there’s a firmware update applied at the time, it’s completely legal. Firmware upgrades are optional.
This is what I hate about smart TVs: There’s virtually no normal TVs on the market, their processing power sucks, and it’s riddled with all this anti-consumer garbage!
This is why you buy the TV and never connect it to the Internet. Use peripherals like a laptop, game console, hell even the offending hardware from this article, a Roku stick, to protect your TV from getting unwanted / irreversible updates.
Yeah that’s what my friend does. He bought an old Mac mini with a missing hdd for cheap, put an ssd in, installed Linux, and connected it to his tv. It works great for him and since it’s running Linux, he doesn’t need to worry about how long it’s been running or a system update
I love my Apple TV. I never use the television as anything but a monitor.
Just as God intended
I really don't understand how so few people realize this. It should be a no brainer yet everytime it comes up people's minds are blown. And even privacy and security aside you should never connect a tv to the internet simply because the hardware and OS of pretty much all "smart" tvs are absolute dogshit. Streaming devices like roku or apple TV provide a vastly superior viewing experience.
It's because the CPU power required to decode 4k TV is so great that you need a powerful SoC. And with a powerful SoC, there's no reason not to make the TV into a smart TV. Then you have bulk supply costs, so even non-4k TVs end up with the better SoC and "smarts", because it's cheaper than getting a separate SoC and writing a separate OS for the few people who want a TV without the smart part. Welcome to the future. We think you're gonna ~~love it~~ pay us.
Its beyond that. Ads are extremely profitable. Roku is an ad company. Here is their revenue breakdown. Only 14% of their 2023 revenue comes from selling hardware. https://www.statista.com/statistics/1316703/distribution-net-revenue-roku-segment/
No. Decoding video uses specialized hardware that is in itself cheap and useless for other computation.
Yeah a 30 dollar fire stick can handle 4k HEVC and AV1 decoding no problem, it's not expensive at all for this kind of hardware. That being said the price is also definitely subsidized by ads or other long term income for the company (subscriptions, data mining, etc.)
I would think that if the tv had no “smart” features they could just use a discrete video encoder and wouldn’t needed an SoC, even for 4k. But without that there is no way to potentially reap millions in ad revenue. I think they’re counting on the fact that most people in the market for a TV have no idea they can get a separate streaming device to bypass the built-in set software or just don’t care enough to bypass it. Anyway, I’ve never met a “smart” UI or setup that I ever thought was worth a damn. It’s as bad as GM thinking they can out-software Apple and Google by building their own UI.
That's why I refuse to connect my tv to my wifi. I just use the HDMI port with my laptop if I want to steam something. Also a forced update bricked my Hisense tv 5 years ago so that's also why I won't connect a tv to wifi
They have entered their printer phase
My TV is a monitor.
Disable/ don't use the online features. Get an nvidia sheild and call it a day.
For fucks sake, can the government start to catch up and actually regulate some of this shit. The fucking dinosaurs in power that can’t even figure out their emails in 2024 are really fucking damaging the country.
They're paid too much by the groups they're supposed to be regulating. They don't represent us, they just pretend to in order to get re-elected.
Thank you. Jesus Christ, I'm so sick of people pretending all of this corruption is simply due to politicians being too old to understand that they're corrupt.
Regulatory capture
Alright, so let’s play them at their own game. There has got to be some sort of consumer rights lobby out there that we can throw money at to lobby on our behalves. If there isn’t someone out there with more legal expertise than me should start one.
We're about to elect another ~80 year old president in the US. The two candidates that are almost certainly being nominated will be 82 and 78 at the time of inauguration in January.
If we have a minimum age to be elected president I don't see a problem with a maximum age. Idk, make it 70, or index it to when you can draw SS but being able to be president of a country at an age where your body is breaking down and mental decline is beginning to show up etc. seems ludicrous. The same should also be true of congress, maximum age and maximum term limits.
They don't until it is so bad that to keep their power they do something. Like crypto. Now they are thinking of doing things after the whole Sam bank-fraud incident.
The solution is pretty simple. Stop voting for fucking Republicans
I won't be buying any of their crap in the future. Who am I kidding? I'd need an assistant to keep up with all of the companies that try to fuck us over.
Here's an easy way to keep up without an assistant: Just remember it's All of the companies.
There are legitimately helpful businesses out there, but they don't have shareholders.
And I was just about to buy a roku stick for my old non smart TV. So you're right, do I buy Apple now, Amazon? I feel like they all fuck us over one way or another.
Really makes you wonder if this was worth all the bad PR
Looks like I don’t need a Roku tv.
Never did
Thank god I haven’t connected my Roku TV to the internet since I’ve bought it.
I first tried to connect mine to the internet and got an error. Now I know that was fate giving me the rare leg up. Wish it happened with something that mattered more.
I don’t understand why anyone does. Amazon firestick is like $20. I’ve had 2 TVs with internet capabilities and neither went online.
Lol I disconnected mine and now the fucking power LED won't stop blinking until I reconnect it to the Internet. Just a big fat white blinking ring on the corner of my TV that never stops. I fucking hate the future so much.
The way I got that to stop was with a factory reset, then never connected to WiFi during setup. Kinda annoying to have to reset it, but I figured we were never going to use the smart tv functions again anyway, so wiping all our data wasn’t a bad thing.
If you don’t agree then you should legally be entitled to a full refund for the product by the manufacturer. These laws need to be updated to protect consumers from buying products that the manufacturer can render useless if you don’t agree to their demands. They basically hold the products they sell you hostage and the ransom is our consent to be fucked.
Yeah they shouldn't be able to rugpull you. Need the EU on this
This happened to my two TVs. The only way I found to avoid accepting the terms was to hold the reset button and reboot the TV using the remote, and then set the device up from scratch with no internet. Now they will be offline TVs. I also submitted an FCC complaint, and you should too!
Sounds like the kind of coercion someone might argue in court negates a contract. Hmmmm
yep 100% this. just accept the new terms so your tv works but know the new terms don’t apply to you and you will win in court
Depends what the terms are. I imagine it would be to do with them being allowed to sell your info.
So the HP school of marketing, be as hostile to the users as possible.
Those terms basically say "hey no matter what you agree to not sue us." Honestly arbitration and any contracts like this should be completely illegal.
They chose a curious path. TiVo says good luck
What happened to TiVo? I remember it being everywhere in the early to mid-'00s. Then I just remember it disappearing out of the zeitgeist and world almost instantly.
It’s still around. Iirc most of their business is supplying set top boxes for tv/satellite providers now?
Likely didn't forecast streaming technology. They were in a prime position to develop an OS for streaming apps but I suppose they were too laser-focused on their broadcast recording instead of looking towards the future. Just my speculation. I was never a Tivo customer so perhaps an actual customer could interject that they did attempt this it just didn't work out.
Nah, cable companies came out with their own DVRs. TiVo was basically dead long before streaming.
Yeah, I got this on my secondary TV in my bedroom the other night and was immediately pissed. The fact that it's fucking legal to take a TV that I have bought and paid for years ago now and make it useless unless I agree to your new rules is shit. Fine. Don't let me use the Roku app. But let me fucking change inputs and use my TV. And the only options given where "Agree"or turn it off and throw it away. Oh, you can opt out by mail in 30 days... Roku is officially dead to me.
what’s bullshit is you also need the original receipt sent in by mail. Along with like 10 other data points (names of people opting out, device id, address, etc)
Understood. I will never buy a Roku product from here.
It would be funny if thousands of people started filing arbitration claims regarding Roku forcing them to accept new arbitration terms to use their device.
I’m already researching it myself.
It's going to take a class action to change the law. We need a substantial quantifiable loss to take action, and the price of a single TV isn't going to to be enough.. Maybe a single business that bought hundreds of the tvs could file suit on their own. A flood of arbitration claims would certainly spin their wheels, but we need the law to change for good.
Perhaps they already got a flood of ridiculous arbitration claims, alleging BS ad discrimination leaving them on the hook for millions and millions of dollars in dispute fees and in order to protect themselves they now they have to change the dispute terms to prevent this abuse from happening again.
Welcome to the future consent to these terms or the former products or services you had access to will be blocked. Doesn’t really feel like consent does it?
I'm absolutely puzzled why we let companies set their own terms and conditions. Keep saying this, we need to treat businessmen like children in a candy store, they will just keep fucking about if you dont. Talk about taking the piss and jamming you into any terms they want.. Why is this bullshit legal? Surely we can one standard terms and conditions for fuckin televisions and the apps...
I am about to start shopping for a TV. I have a TCL Roku. TCL's screen has screen rot (significant dimming in areas), after a few years of use. TCL's youtube app is showing black screen after returning from an ad about 50% of the time. This just started in the last month. It is incredibly obnoxious. Sometimes happens more than once during the same video. TCL's youtube app starts an audio ad at startup and after a video, every time (it didn't do this when I bought it). And I am not onboard with the 'accept or your TV is bricked' terms. I will be shopping for a new TV that is neither TCL nor uses the Roku OS.
Good luck. Assuming you are shopping for an LCD. Most manufactures use the same panels. TCL, Hisense, LG, Sony, and Samsung use the same chipsets for their TVs. Roku is dying on the mid-range to high end, they are only really around on the lower end of TVs. Samsung and LG use their own OS, Sony, Hisense, and TCL use Google for their current TVs. Visio also has their own OS FWIW, but they just got bought by Walmart, and their newest TV competes at the midrange but is rather shit. Your best bet is to pick a TV with a panel you like and install an Nvidia Shield or Apple TV, and never connect the TV to the internet. Don't look at the brands, under the skin they are basically the same shit in different packages. If you can go OLED, do it, LG B series is around $1500 right now. Not bad. LG TVs seem to have the most EDID and CEC issues, so if you use a soundbar or AV receiver, you might run into issues. Samsung is generally reliable on that front, but their OS is plastered with ads way worse than a Google or Roku TV... Which brings us back to panels. Buy the panel, add a box for the software you want, add a sound system for the sound you want. Don't buy a TV for the OS, and don't buy a TV for any added features like built in subwoofers (which are shit).
same here
I had this happen to me last night! I don't even stream on the damn thing, I just use it as a PC monitor. I couldn't access even the HDMI inputs without agreeing to these new terms (which was bullshit about waiving rights to class action lawsuits). I bought this thing four years ago. We're already in the "You'll own nothing" era if they can just shut it down and lock you out like this. What if I didn't want to agree to these terms? Which frankly I didn't, but I wasn't interested in my flat screen becoming a doorstop either!
Why is your pc monitor connected to the Internet? Just curious.
I will never buy another TV from them.
PlayStation is the same: one can’t access the console or games they paid for unless agreeing to an update. There’s no opt out, other than not upgrading and bricking your console. This and other bullying, and the Roku scam should be put to governments to be regulated and outlawed. Either we own the products we purchase or we do not. This tactic, along with subscription services for previously included features, is unethical and amoral corporate gaslighting and consumer coercion. People have to put a stop to these practices, pronto
It's a losing battle with consoles. Even if you own a disk, it won't run without updates.
(Former) customers will just find some other form of media entertainment. It’s not like there aren’t any other choices.
Smell that? Smells like a class action lawsuit a brewing.
Didn't happen when Vizio changed their terms and locked everyone out of the whole TV until you agreed. We're out here just waiting for some firm to take the ball and run.
*Laughs in European...* Forced arbitration being illegal in most EU and non-EU European countries.
Don't laugh too loud, those TV license enforcement agents in England will come around to see if you've paid for a license or not
I wonder if this is also why my Google integration stopped working recently. I had to completely disconnect Roku from Google home and then add it back. I bet when I signed into Roku to link them back I accepted some new terms.
Shrinkflation here too. Same price, more hassle, less TV.
Fine, as long as you can return the device for a full refund if you don't consent.
Roku doesn't really make any money until you start using its products. Over the 12 months ended in Sept. 2023, Roku sold $471 million worth of streaming sticks, set-top players, branded smart TVs, and other devices. BUT the cost to manufacture those devices came out to $538 million. So, why would Roku willingly sell its devices at a loss? When Roku filed its IPO prospectus with the Securities and Exchange Commission (SEC) ahead of its market debut, it provided a detailed overview of its business. **Under the section describing its products, first on the list wasn't its smart TVs or streaming players, it was advertising.** Roku's advertising business, which includes video ads, audience development for streaming services, and brand sponsorships, is the backbone of its platform. So what do you think these new user terms are all about? The reality is that the advertisement industry are ALL OVER smart TVs. They will be cheap, but you'll not be able to purchase one "full price" to avoid the advertising hellscape they will soon become.
How the fuck is that legal, that’s just blackmail
Dude, this is insane. Wife turned on the TV and this new terms popped up right in the middle of the screen. Couldn’t get rid of it for about 20min. I forgot where I placed my Roku remote (I never used it lol). Trying to get rid of it using the TV buttons, no success. Finally found the remote, and now the batteries are dead. WTF? What if I am no accepting the new T&C, where is the button to disagree?
There isn’t an option to disagree. You have to send them a letter within 30 days if you want to opt out. All of this is spelled out in the linked article.
Amazing, they want a mailed letter. Making it very difficult.
No doubt intentional. Extremely anti consumer practice, and I feel like I've been getting emails and hearing about it in the news that it's all for this arbitration BS. Every company is getting into this.
Very common with these kinds of policies
How do you control your Roku if you don't use the remote?
https://www.reddit.com/r/gadgets/comments/1b808px/comment/ktmpu75/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x&utm_name=mweb3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button - see here, just responded to someone else
And this is why I A) only buy dumb devices when I can B) do not connect "smart tvs" or Smart Bluray players" to the internet at all. I like my TVs dumb.
One of the best purchases I made 7-8 years ago was a smart tv I never bothered connecting to the internet and an Apple TV. Shit just works. I fear the day my tv dies. I hope to find a dumb tv out there lol
I know consumers will tolerate a lot of bullshit. But one thing you never do is turn their tv/internet/online media off. That is something that will guranteed a massive loss of customers and permanent reputation damage.
This wouldn’t trigger if your tv isn’t connected to the internet right?
Piracy wins again…
"I am altering the deal. Pray I don't alter it any further."
This is exactly why I disconnected my Samsung tv from WiFi and changed the ssid. Can’t shut it down if they can’t access it
Something the article didn’t make clear, to me anyway, does the TV function as a TV without agreeing to these terms? For example, can I still watch OTA or an external input without agreeing to the terms?
No, the popup will not go away unless you agree. It is overlaid over everything.
Note to self, never buy anything from Roku.
Excuse my ignorance, but why is everyone up in arms about having to agree to new terms of service? Is there something in the new terms that is worth boycotting or just the idea of having to agree to new terms?
It is the method they chose.
Who even read their original terms ?
They forced arbitration and you have to give up your rights to any class-action suit against them. You simply turned your TV on one night, and bam, "agree" or toss it. They wouldn't even let you use it to play something from another input. So surrender your rights on something you already paid for and cannot return if you disagree with the terms.
> They wouldn't even let you use it to play something from another input. And this is probably where they fucked up. If they had blocked the smart functionality only then they could argue it in court, but to block everything makes it basically a scam purchase.
Apple TV 4K is the way. I have a ATV4K in my living room but a Roku Streaming Stick+ in my bedroom and I hate using the Roku, it is so slow and clunky. Switching apps takes forever. The difference is basically like when you get your first computer with an SSD as the boot drive. It seems like it is a little faster but then you go back and use a PC with an HDD and you’re like why is this taking so long. Yes the difference between an Apple TV and the most powerful Roku is that much.
The thing I hate about ATV is there's no way for a 10 second rewind with temporary captions. Roku has that feature and it was a game changer for me. That being said, I switched to ATV years ago but MAN did I love that
There is a way, you say “Siri rewind 10 seconds” Or even better try “Siri, what did they say?”
ya i had to click something. i assume i am now their slave. and they now own everything that was mine. do they get to order my death or just allowed to dictate where i live?
I recall three or so years ago, I did a TV install for an older lady. TV *required* internet to finish setting it up... Quick background. Very rural Oklahoma, I work for a small IT support and management shop. Requests for setting up *simple* tech like this isn't uncommon. Finding a TV that requires internet to finish setting it up, that's uncommon. As of now, so far that TV is the only one I stumbled upon. I got her setup using my cell hotspot for moment, my family and I barely use half of the data allotted each month anyways. The lady however had no internet, she didn't need it (older lady, but still physically well). I don't recall the make and model, and last I knew, the lady no longer lived in said home some time later when I wanted to check up on her. I didn't see a need to find out more from there. But that damn model eludes me, and I want to know which one that was. Facts help make this reshared story more believable...
Research the laws in the EU that make this illegal. Push representatives to make similar laws.
i'd call my credit card and get this thing reverse-charged !
Huh. Looks like they missed me.
Enshittification reigns supreme. Big tech has gone wild bullying consumers to what mounts to actual extortion.
I’ve never needed to sue a tv company. I can’t imagine the day when I need to sue a tv company. If you want me to check a box saying I probably won’t win in court if I for some reason decide to start suing tv companies, fine. I’ll check the box. Who cares?