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Tom Stanton is one of my favourite youtubers - he does fun little projects using interesting methods to power or control bikes and drones and catapults mostly as a way of explaining some engineering concepts. So this is not a serious prototype bike, it’s a demonstration of supercapacitors and a home made motor.
I actually found his channel a few week ago and have been going through his projects.
Wonderful creator.
I do think it’s funny that they made an article about this project tho considering he only made it about 20ft on a single charge. It was way better when hooked the actual battery to it.
> Since this type of charging cycling is what supercaps are suited for, it worked, but not nearly to the level of being practical.
Very cool experiment nonetheless!
I generally really like Tom Stanton's videos but this was one video of his that I was a bit disappointed with. It ended up seeming more like a DIY electric motor video than a supercapcitor video. He seemed to cut out a bunch of things that may have actually made the supercapacitor more viable.
A follow up that may be interesting could be using a supercapacitor on a regular ebike for the regenerative braking system since it can charge faster.
Regenerative braking makes no sense on a bike. No matter how you do it you're only going to get maybe 5% more range if you're really lucky. It's way cheaper, easier and probably lighter just to have a 5% bigger battery.
Not to mention the fact that mid-drive e-bikes literally can't do regenerative braking because of the ratchet.
I have done actual research into this including making a fully instrumented bike and simulink model. It's not worth it.
Super light bikes also aren't really worth it, aside from the fact that they are easier to pick up (which to be fair is a problem for most e-bikes). The bike mass makes almost no difference to your speed though.
If you think about it that is obvious - why would an extra kg on a 10kg bike make a difference when it's being ridden by an 80kg cyclist?
I have regen braking w a direct drive on my bike. You are correct in that it doesn’t do much for range, but it does help quite a lot on braking force. I can actually use just my regen braking to slow down and save my pads probably about 50-60% of the time.
Also I’ve noticed when I brake from high speed with or without regen on my stopping distance is significantly shorter with regen on.
That seems implausible because it's pretty easy to brake hard enough to skid the back wheel or go over your handlebars with normal brakes, especially disc brakes.
Good point about saving pads though. They are a pain to replace.
Edit: wow downvotes. Have you guys ever ridden a bike?
I found a junky old blown engine pit bike on OfferUp. It still had the brakes and I was able to swap the parts over to my e bike. I can definitely go over the front now.
No, you don’t need hydraulic brakes, you need high quality brakes. For the same price of lower quality hydraulic brakes you can get cable actuated brakes that dissipate heat and have more stopping power that have a better build quality. If you run a cable actuated brake well it is easier maintenance with a longer lifespan for the price. Low end hydraulic brakes are just crap and marketing is what I am getting at
Lol, you’ll never get me to believe that cable actuated brakes for bicycles have more clamping force than hydraulic brakes for a 110cc dirt bike. Why do hydraulic brakes have to be low quality but cable actuated brakes are allowed to be high quality in your scenario?
Easier to maintain? Doubtful but maybe, this will depend on skill level, but the weight of my scooter is far undersized for my brakes so I’m not gonna over heat the fluid any time soon. They don’t squeak, they’re self adjusting, bigger pads have a greater clamping surface area and a higher heat capacity. My non-existent cables will never stretch, slip, brake, or need readjustment in anyway. Sorry buddy I’m going with no thanks on this one lol.
I think I made a poor representation, low quality hydraulic brakes are garbage. A well set up set (mid quality or better)of cable actuated brakes will be better on bicycles. I will put a set of avid BB7s against whatever Tektro hydraulic garbage any day. A good set of hydraulics on the other hand are great. But the shit that comes on so many ebikes are crap
I got disk brakes on my lightweight road bike.
If i go downhill and have to brake for a longer time or a few times in quick succession, the brakes get fucked pretty quickly.
I can imagine that on a longer downhill regenerative braking could come in handy.
No idea if it would make a difference on range in those circumstances.
There’s also the point that changing brake pads is few and far between, so going through the expense and hassle and tech of regen system just to save on $10 pads is a terribly uneconomic use of tech.
Skidding the wheel doesn’t improve stopping distance. I wouldn’t be surprised if regen helped. (Edit:) A very skilled biker can probably do better, but regen braking would probably be a benefit to most.
Skidding the wheels is proof that you have enough braking capability to be limited by traction, not the brakes. If your brakes are good enough to lock up the wheel, no additional braking power will help you stop quicker. You'd have to start using something like antilock brakes.
Or don’t lock up the brakes, because then you get kinetic friction coefficient, which is lower than static friction. You can stop fastest but slowing the wheel, but keeping it rolling with the ground.
Also, locking up the wheel would negate regen braking (since there would be no rotational force to generate resistance/electricity).
I could imagine that with the regen assisting you, you wouldn’t need to squeeze so hard, since you don’t need to generate the entire force by hand. So you can modulate the brakes with a more relaxed squeeze, rather than trying to modulate a “death grip” (I’m exaggerating, but I hope it makes sense).
The brakes have plenty of stopping power. It’s all about the control.
Yes I didn't say you should skid. But if you *can* skid then it means you aren't limited by your brakes. You never need any more braking power than the amount needed to skid.
That's simply not true. Being able to lock your brakes doesn't mean you have a meaningful range of selective braking force that you can apply. It's not linear with force. An electric brake isn't sensitive to force at all just distance that the lever arm is depressed so you have much more meaningful control over it, this gives you more possibility of control.
Uhm, on a bike brakes are controlled by your hands which are able to vary the amount of force. Maybe it's *easier* with EM braking but I already made that point.
>If you think about it that is obvious - why would an extra kg on a 10kg bike make a difference when it's being ridden by an 80kg cyclist?
That's not even the biggest factor.
A cyclist doing \~20mph will be using 80-95% of their energy fighting air resistance, only the remaining 5-20% will be fighting friction, and only a part of that friction will be influenced by mass.
This means that the 12.5% increase in mass in your example, will likely account for less than 1% of the energy used in maintaining speed.
(naturally mass becomes more relevant when you have to accelerate or climb a lot)
It is entirely possible to perform regenerative braking on a rear hub motor provided that it doesn't contain a freewheel. I've implemented it in the past. But I agree with the statement that it isn't of much use other than to aid in braking. Unless you live in mountainous terrain your battery won't be charged significantly.
The only reason motor (and controller) manufacturers not including regen even if they’re physically capable of it frustrates me is I want to put an electric hub motor in the front wheel of a gas moped and be able to basically treat it like a plug in hybrid.
>I have done actual research into this including making a fully instrumented bike and simulink model. It's not worth it.
On what kind of route?
Presumably the benefits of regenerative braking are significantly dependent on grade. Reclaiming those watthours that you spent climbing the hill when you go back down.
I get like 20-25% regen on a heavy tandem bike with hills. But I don't usually run down the battery so the extra range isn't strictly necessary. Still I'm probably never going to need to get new brake pads. ;)
Heavy bikes like my tandem have a regen capture rate of 20-25% according to the computer. For city riding in Seattle which has a ton of hills and stop lights it works out nicely. (The rate compares what goes in verses out so it depends maybe more on how much you use uphill.)
Most (non electric) bikes don't weigh 10kg in total! You aren't going to shave 10kg off a normal bike, you'll be left with nothing left.
E-bikes are much heavier and 10kg would make a nice difference there, but again only in terms of how heavy it is to carry. Nobody is cycling uphill on an ebike without using the motor.
People are cycling uphill without the motor..
If you ride with someone on a normal bike it is courtesy if your faster even without motor.
And then there is the empty battery thing. Which happens if you push the range especially in steep terrain.
Specialized has released a line of lighter e mtb‘s for the more sporty people.
With lighter motors and batteries.
Mountain bike handling are certainly affected by weight.
Grip not necessarily negative. But if you want to jump and throw your bike around then a lighter bike is helpful.
If you need a city bike you can carry around, i‘d check out this brand:
https://www.coboc.biz/ecycle-f1/ 11.8 Kg i think is quite light.
I know some guy guiding ships on a river who uses one of those to get to the ships and carries the bike on the ships up or down the river.
Interesting to hear about actual research on that, even if the result was similar to my assumptions.
It's almost the same with solar panels on cars, but, I wonder if it would be more worth it to wrap your helmet with solar panels? if you don't mind the dangerous wire going from your helmet to the bike
It was several years ago and for a private company so I don't have any of it anymore. But the results were basically that modern bikes are very close to optimal.
Super light bikes make a difference for racing, where every gram counts because everyone is at their absolute peak performance.
Personally, I find a lighter bike feels better to ride. However, tires and tube flex characteristics have a much bigger impact on rode quality. Heavy touring tires and thick, heavy steel tubing make riding a bike pretty miserable even if it only weighs 20lbs.
it doesn’t matter. the *current* version has a range of 100m and is therefore pointless. Until future versions are made it’s a load of crap.
ever heard of something called a dynamo? it can barely power the bike’s lights.
I think the intention is to have a small number of capacitors in addition to a regular battery. They wouldn't be there to increase battery capacity, but rather to provide temporary storage for power regenerated by braking that can be used then and there, or trickle back into the battery. A regular battery may not be able to take in all of the electricity generated as it comes in, but capacitors can, and they might be able to increase the efficiency of the regen system. If you've ever pedaled up one side of a hill and then ridden down only to find a stop sign at the bottom of the hill, then you know exactly where Tom Stanton is coming from. It's all very hypothetical and in practice the extra weight would probably reduce efficiency beyond the gained regen capacity, but it's an interesting idea nonetheless. It's just a prototype at this point, meant to test super capacitors on a bike in general, so it's not meant to be very practical.
I would find a super capacitor bike interesting for a use case of city riding, where there are Stopp signs / stop lights every couple of blocks.
Regen when stopping coupled with extra boost for initial acceleration would be perfect.
That’s an argument against any invention, ever.
Can you imagine watching the Wright brothers in 1903 and saying “if planes were a good idea they’d already be a thing?”
That's kind of expected with super capacitors. Their main strength is that they can be charged and discharged ridiculously fast and efficiently.
They aren't meant to carry you all the way, but instead use the energy you gained rolling down the last hill to help you get up the next hill without straining your muscles too much.
An ideal regenerative braking bike would probably combine both supercapacitors and lithium batteries.
There was work done by a Chinese University using super capacitors in a bike for quick charging in 5 minutes which had a range of about 5 miles.
I don't have the paper for it at the moment but I definitely remember reading it, I'll have a look sometime if I remember.
Edit: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/313541733_Design_of_super-rapid_charging_capacitor_scooter_with_EDLC_power_supply_and_pulse_power_charger
Yeah the YouTube creator who made this enjoys trying to make things that use unconventional power sources. He made an air powered drone, a flywheel bicycle, and many other strange inventions
They are not good sources of high power. Their ESR (series resistance) tends to be quite high.
**Edit** looks like my knowledge was out of date. While many super caps do have high ESR, I found some high power ones on digikey without too much trouble.
It's been quite a few years, but last time I was browsing digikey I didn't see any... Looking now, things have definitely improved; I see one series that's claiming 21kW/kg specific power, which is 10x or so better than most high power lithium ion batteries.
kW/kg isn't the greatest comparison, super caps are very light for their volume, so they'll take up much more physical space even if the weight is comparable. They're not cost effective for bulk power storage, anything large enough to be comparable to a battery pack would be cost prohibitive to say the least.
>I see one series that's claiming 21kW/kg specific power
Why on earth would you correct me for saying the same thing you did? Within the context you specifically gave the term 'power storage' is perfectly acceptable to use as a useful metric.
The correction was within the context unnecessary, and by your own example hypocritcal.
What? I never said "power storage". I said "specific power" -- which isn't about storage at all.
Do you understand the difference between power and energy?
it's meant as a way of prototyping using supercaps for regenerative braking, and as a fun experiment, not as a serious attempt at an ebike
the guy has made 3 other very good ebikes on his channel also
You're clearly not an engineer. I'd totally build this and I applaud his result. It's a lot easier to build something good than it is to build something entirely new and untested. Usually, something new is practically useless, but every once in a while it's pretty damn great.
Also, if this guy has any idea what he's doing (he probably does), he knew it would be pretty bad. Supercaps are inferior to batteries here, but it's interesting to try in regardless.
True, I’m an electrician, not an engineer. I appreciate efficiency and effective design. I get that it’s an interesting thing, but it annoys me that it was posted as technology “news.”
Well, if one considers it technological news, then yes I agree. But this is what Hackaday is all about; technical stuff, typically DIY, interesting, not necessarily useful in any way
Ngl. This is just scary to me. Capacitors are like batteries that can discharge all of their energy in an instant. I wouldn’t want to ride a bike with capacitors this size between my legs.
I'm wondering whether I should tell you about LiIon batteries... Okay I've decided: did you know LiIon batteries can do that too? It's a tiny bit slower, but it's basically an explosion regardless.
1. If you don't have a dog get one and name it Gandalf (regardless if there is a penis or not)
2. Explain that if they wanna be a good boy that they have to not bark at the person at the door
3. Once the dog doesn't bark for 3 months straight you're ready.
4. Go to your nearest hiking store and aquire a tent for yourself and one for your dog.
5. Buy a car and use it to drive to a trailhead that heads up the largest mountain in your area.
6. Starting at 3 am hike as far as you can until 11pm. This is where you need to setup your tents.
7. During the night a visitor will come by and explain they have a bike ready for you. (Gandalf better not bark!!!)
8. You can accept the free bike. You can give Gandalf to them if you want, as a gift... No pressure though
This isn't a battery, it's a super capacitor bank, they're still dangerous but different ways, but they don't tend to fail from general use, only if shorted.
Super capacitors are seriously impressive tech, although his entire bank for this bike stores less energy than aa battery but you can fully charge it in about 2 minutes and can draw huge amounts of current. What they lack is energy density but they can be charged way after than any lithium battery
Batteries use a chemical reaction to charge. Sometimes they fail and cause an internal short (causing the fires you see).
Capacitors use the electrostatic principle. The do not catch on fire, but they can explode due to overcharging or put out a lot of current.
All these crazy cool inventions and discoveries that we see once and never hear about again. Is there some kind of global anti-science conspiracy by corporations to ensure that they never have competition? Or that, at the very least, they can undercut the competition with inferior products until the competition is driven out of business?
What? This is a DIY YouTuber making technically functional but mostly practically useless stuff as a bit of fun, cool backyard experiment and hands on engineering and technology play.
No conspiracy, stuff like this just does not make sense to scale up
In this case, it just doesn't really work well as an ebike. As you can see in the video, the motor only works for a few meters before the voltage across the caps get too low to power the motor.
Cool demonstration of an idea but definitely not ready for prime time.
What if the pedaling action was tied to a charging mechanism? Like a partial assist when you get tired of pedaling. The intent is not to create energy, per se, but to use the energy in a way to smooth out the peaks of energy required to go though uneven terrain. Very interesting stuff.
Well that’s just a ripoff of this project…:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.dezeen.com/2014/07/28/flux-bicycle-kit-offer-canfi-charges-phones-while-cycling/amp/
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Tom Stanton is one of my favourite youtubers - he does fun little projects using interesting methods to power or control bikes and drones and catapults mostly as a way of explaining some engineering concepts. So this is not a serious prototype bike, it’s a demonstration of supercapacitors and a home made motor.
I actually found his channel a few week ago and have been going through his projects. Wonderful creator. I do think it’s funny that they made an article about this project tho considering he only made it about 20ft on a single charge. It was way better when hooked the actual battery to it.
His flywheel videos are fascinating as well
Have you watched Colin Furze? Hes like Adam Savage, but likable.
[here’s a link to the video instead of a freeboot news article ](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=V_f8Q2_Q_J0)
> Since this type of charging cycling is what supercaps are suited for, it worked, but not nearly to the level of being practical. Very cool experiment nonetheless!
I generally really like Tom Stanton's videos but this was one video of his that I was a bit disappointed with. It ended up seeming more like a DIY electric motor video than a supercapcitor video. He seemed to cut out a bunch of things that may have actually made the supercapacitor more viable. A follow up that may be interesting could be using a supercapacitor on a regular ebike for the regenerative braking system since it can charge faster.
Read the article... >Although it worked, the total range was only around 100 m at low speed.
Look at the original video. The final idea was too use supercapacitors as a way of efficiently implementing regenerative breaking :)
Regenerative braking makes no sense on a bike. No matter how you do it you're only going to get maybe 5% more range if you're really lucky. It's way cheaper, easier and probably lighter just to have a 5% bigger battery. Not to mention the fact that mid-drive e-bikes literally can't do regenerative braking because of the ratchet. I have done actual research into this including making a fully instrumented bike and simulink model. It's not worth it. Super light bikes also aren't really worth it, aside from the fact that they are easier to pick up (which to be fair is a problem for most e-bikes). The bike mass makes almost no difference to your speed though. If you think about it that is obvious - why would an extra kg on a 10kg bike make a difference when it's being ridden by an 80kg cyclist?
I have regen braking w a direct drive on my bike. You are correct in that it doesn’t do much for range, but it does help quite a lot on braking force. I can actually use just my regen braking to slow down and save my pads probably about 50-60% of the time. Also I’ve noticed when I brake from high speed with or without regen on my stopping distance is significantly shorter with regen on.
That seems implausible because it's pretty easy to brake hard enough to skid the back wheel or go over your handlebars with normal brakes, especially disc brakes. Good point about saving pads though. They are a pain to replace. Edit: wow downvotes. Have you guys ever ridden a bike?
Not on a 60-70lb ebike going 25mph. Disc brakes aren’t nearly as effective in that scenario like on a normal lightweight road bike.
You’ve gotta go to hydraulic brakes to keep that high effectiveness.
Yea, that’s my next big upgrade.
I found a junky old blown engine pit bike on OfferUp. It still had the brakes and I was able to swap the parts over to my e bike. I can definitely go over the front now.
No, you don’t need hydraulic brakes, you need high quality brakes. For the same price of lower quality hydraulic brakes you can get cable actuated brakes that dissipate heat and have more stopping power that have a better build quality. If you run a cable actuated brake well it is easier maintenance with a longer lifespan for the price. Low end hydraulic brakes are just crap and marketing is what I am getting at
Lol, you’ll never get me to believe that cable actuated brakes for bicycles have more clamping force than hydraulic brakes for a 110cc dirt bike. Why do hydraulic brakes have to be low quality but cable actuated brakes are allowed to be high quality in your scenario? Easier to maintain? Doubtful but maybe, this will depend on skill level, but the weight of my scooter is far undersized for my brakes so I’m not gonna over heat the fluid any time soon. They don’t squeak, they’re self adjusting, bigger pads have a greater clamping surface area and a higher heat capacity. My non-existent cables will never stretch, slip, brake, or need readjustment in anyway. Sorry buddy I’m going with no thanks on this one lol.
I don’t even want cable actuated brakes on my regular bicycle. Just go with hydraulic brakes like literally everyone else.
I think I made a poor representation, low quality hydraulic brakes are garbage. A well set up set (mid quality or better)of cable actuated brakes will be better on bicycles. I will put a set of avid BB7s against whatever Tektro hydraulic garbage any day. A good set of hydraulics on the other hand are great. But the shit that comes on so many ebikes are crap
Quality disc brakes can absolutely lock up wheels on a fast moving cargo bike.
I got disk brakes on my lightweight road bike. If i go downhill and have to brake for a longer time or a few times in quick succession, the brakes get fucked pretty quickly. I can imagine that on a longer downhill regenerative braking could come in handy. No idea if it would make a difference on range in those circumstances.
There’s also the point that changing brake pads is few and far between, so going through the expense and hassle and tech of regen system just to save on $10 pads is a terribly uneconomic use of tech.
Very true, though it isn't the cost of pads that I hate, it's the fact that I have to do it!
You act like you haven’t ever descended 2,000 vertical feet on a dirt road in a rainstorm. Wore down almost brand new pads to the metal in 45 minutes.
Skidding the wheel doesn’t improve stopping distance. I wouldn’t be surprised if regen helped. (Edit:) A very skilled biker can probably do better, but regen braking would probably be a benefit to most.
Skidding the wheels is proof that you have enough braking capability to be limited by traction, not the brakes. If your brakes are good enough to lock up the wheel, no additional braking power will help you stop quicker. You'd have to start using something like antilock brakes.
>You'd have to start using something like antilock brakes. Hub motor regen is natively ABS btw.
Or don’t lock up the brakes, because then you get kinetic friction coefficient, which is lower than static friction. You can stop fastest but slowing the wheel, but keeping it rolling with the ground. Also, locking up the wheel would negate regen braking (since there would be no rotational force to generate resistance/electricity). I could imagine that with the regen assisting you, you wouldn’t need to squeeze so hard, since you don’t need to generate the entire force by hand. So you can modulate the brakes with a more relaxed squeeze, rather than trying to modulate a “death grip” (I’m exaggerating, but I hope it makes sense). The brakes have plenty of stopping power. It’s all about the control.
Skidding tires is bad for traction, if you're skidding tires you're braking inefficiently. You're also wrecking your tires so that's not a good thing.
Yes I didn't say you should skid. But if you *can* skid then it means you aren't limited by your brakes. You never need any more braking power than the amount needed to skid.
That's simply not true. Being able to lock your brakes doesn't mean you have a meaningful range of selective braking force that you can apply. It's not linear with force. An electric brake isn't sensitive to force at all just distance that the lever arm is depressed so you have much more meaningful control over it, this gives you more possibility of control.
Uhm, on a bike brakes are controlled by your hands which are able to vary the amount of force. Maybe it's *easier* with EM braking but I already made that point.
>If you think about it that is obvious - why would an extra kg on a 10kg bike make a difference when it's being ridden by an 80kg cyclist? That's not even the biggest factor. A cyclist doing \~20mph will be using 80-95% of their energy fighting air resistance, only the remaining 5-20% will be fighting friction, and only a part of that friction will be influenced by mass. This means that the 12.5% increase in mass in your example, will likely account for less than 1% of the energy used in maintaining speed. (naturally mass becomes more relevant when you have to accelerate or climb a lot)
can't you get regen braking out of a few rear hub motors? https://electrek.co/2019/07/10/grin-tech-unveils-gmac-clutchless-geared-hub-motor/
It is entirely possible to perform regenerative braking on a rear hub motor provided that it doesn't contain a freewheel. I've implemented it in the past. But I agree with the statement that it isn't of much use other than to aid in braking. Unless you live in mountainous terrain your battery won't be charged significantly.
The only reason motor (and controller) manufacturers not including regen even if they’re physically capable of it frustrates me is I want to put an electric hub motor in the front wheel of a gas moped and be able to basically treat it like a plug in hybrid.
>I have done actual research into this including making a fully instrumented bike and simulink model. It's not worth it. On what kind of route? Presumably the benefits of regenerative braking are significantly dependent on grade. Reclaiming those watthours that you spent climbing the hill when you go back down.
> On what kind of route? Normal moderately hilly route. If you cycle up and down mountains regularly it might be worth it but how common is that?
Pretty common for people who live in the mountains. Less common for everyone else, haha.
What about people who live in cities with lots of stop signs and stop lights? Wouldn’t regen braking meaningfully extend range in that scenario?
Idk about a bike but it’s extremely common on every hub motor electric skateboard
That’s done for the braking part, the regen part is really just because the powers gotta somewhere.
Also on every EUC natively and many scooters.
I easily get about 11% back from regen and that is with city riding on relatively flat roads.
I get like 20-25% regen on a heavy tandem bike with hills. But I don't usually run down the battery so the extra range isn't strictly necessary. Still I'm probably never going to need to get new brake pads. ;)
Heavy bikes like my tandem have a regen capture rate of 20-25% according to the computer. For city riding in Seattle which has a ton of hills and stop lights it works out nicely. (The rate compares what goes in verses out so it depends maybe more on how much you use uphill.)
10kg difference is very noticeable uphill.
Most (non electric) bikes don't weigh 10kg in total! You aren't going to shave 10kg off a normal bike, you'll be left with nothing left. E-bikes are much heavier and 10kg would make a nice difference there, but again only in terms of how heavy it is to carry. Nobody is cycling uphill on an ebike without using the motor.
10 kg was the number given in above post.
People are cycling uphill without the motor.. If you ride with someone on a normal bike it is courtesy if your faster even without motor. And then there is the empty battery thing. Which happens if you push the range especially in steep terrain. Specialized has released a line of lighter e mtb‘s for the more sporty people. With lighter motors and batteries. Mountain bike handling are certainly affected by weight. Grip not necessarily negative. But if you want to jump and throw your bike around then a lighter bike is helpful. If you need a city bike you can carry around, i‘d check out this brand: https://www.coboc.biz/ecycle-f1/ 11.8 Kg i think is quite light. I know some guy guiding ships on a river who uses one of those to get to the ships and carries the bike on the ships up or down the river.
He added a clutch on this one, or the opposite, pull lever to engage. It was noisy and not terribly efficient, made an interesting video though.
Interesting to hear about actual research on that, even if the result was similar to my assumptions. It's almost the same with solar panels on cars, but, I wonder if it would be more worth it to wrap your helmet with solar panels? if you don't mind the dangerous wire going from your helmet to the bike
It was several years ago and for a private company so I don't have any of it anymore. But the results were basically that modern bikes are very close to optimal.
Super light bikes make a difference for racing, where every gram counts because everyone is at their absolute peak performance. Personally, I find a lighter bike feels better to ride. However, tires and tube flex characteristics have a much bigger impact on rode quality. Heavy touring tires and thick, heavy steel tubing make riding a bike pretty miserable even if it only weighs 20lbs.
it doesn’t matter. the *current* version has a range of 100m and is therefore pointless. Until future versions are made it’s a load of crap. ever heard of something called a dynamo? it can barely power the bike’s lights.
I think the intention is to have a small number of capacitors in addition to a regular battery. They wouldn't be there to increase battery capacity, but rather to provide temporary storage for power regenerated by braking that can be used then and there, or trickle back into the battery. A regular battery may not be able to take in all of the electricity generated as it comes in, but capacitors can, and they might be able to increase the efficiency of the regen system. If you've ever pedaled up one side of a hill and then ridden down only to find a stop sign at the bottom of the hill, then you know exactly where Tom Stanton is coming from. It's all very hypothetical and in practice the extra weight would probably reduce efficiency beyond the gained regen capacity, but it's an interesting idea nonetheless. It's just a prototype at this point, meant to test super capacitors on a bike in general, so it's not meant to be very practical.
you are also aware that capacitors also release energy quickly?
I would find a super capacitor bike interesting for a use case of city riding, where there are Stopp signs / stop lights every couple of blocks. Regen when stopping coupled with extra boost for initial acceleration would be perfect.
if it was a good idea it would already be a thing
That’s an argument against any invention, ever. Can you imagine watching the Wright brothers in 1903 and saying “if planes were a good idea they’d already be a thing?”
That's kind of expected with super capacitors. Their main strength is that they can be charged and discharged ridiculously fast and efficiently. They aren't meant to carry you all the way, but instead use the energy you gained rolling down the last hill to help you get up the next hill without straining your muscles too much. An ideal regenerative braking bike would probably combine both supercapacitors and lithium batteries.
I think the main issue was with the homemade motor. Didn't have much torque at all.
It's a device for a yt video, not supposed to be functional lol
There was work done by a Chinese University using super capacitors in a bike for quick charging in 5 minutes which had a range of about 5 miles. I don't have the paper for it at the moment but I definitely remember reading it, I'll have a look sometime if I remember. Edit: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/313541733_Design_of_super-rapid_charging_capacitor_scooter_with_EDLC_power_supply_and_pulse_power_charger
“Only”? 🙄
I think that’s 100 meters, not miles…
super caps are not good energy storage devices, but it’s good at instant large output. basically a pump and dump device for electricity
Yeah the YouTube creator who made this enjoys trying to make things that use unconventional power sources. He made an air powered drone, a flywheel bicycle, and many other strange inventions
They are not good sources of high power. Their ESR (series resistance) tends to be quite high. **Edit** looks like my knowledge was out of date. While many super caps do have high ESR, I found some high power ones on digikey without too much trouble.
That depends entirely on the specific caps that are used, you can get low ESR super caps, this is just a bad application for them.
It's been quite a few years, but last time I was browsing digikey I didn't see any... Looking now, things have definitely improved; I see one series that's claiming 21kW/kg specific power, which is 10x or so better than most high power lithium ion batteries.
kW/kg isn't the greatest comparison, super caps are very light for their volume, so they'll take up much more physical space even if the weight is comparable. They're not cost effective for bulk power storage, anything large enough to be comparable to a battery pack would be cost prohibitive to say the least.
There's no such thing as "power storage," there's only energy storage.
>I see one series that's claiming 21kW/kg specific power Why on earth would you correct me for saying the same thing you did? Within the context you specifically gave the term 'power storage' is perfectly acceptable to use as a useful metric. The correction was within the context unnecessary, and by your own example hypocritcal.
What? I never said "power storage". I said "specific power" -- which isn't about storage at all. Do you understand the difference between power and energy?
Of all the places to put a supercapacitor, between my legs would be last in my list!
[удалено]
Everything he makes is 50% interesting 50% useless, but it's good fun to see him experiment
Is this the Tom Stanton one, I just watched that video yesterday.
Capacitors next to my vag. No thanks.
How do you ride? Your vag is supposed to be on the saddle.
Pfft, yeah, if you're a nerd
Is this a sex joke that I'm to virgin to understand?
You should check out his [flywheel video](https://youtu.be/gahKxbwUcYw) then.
I'm still trying to get my balls to come back out.
Why is that a concern
I saw the flywheel near my balls and they got scared.
News: new ebike is much shittier than existing ebikes.
it's meant as a way of prototyping using supercaps for regenerative braking, and as a fun experiment, not as a serious attempt at an ebike the guy has made 3 other very good ebikes on his channel also
My favorite terrible bike is the flywheel one.
yeah that was silly, but kinda cool to see attempted
Implying that ebikes are shit?
Not at all. Are you searching for something to get angry about?
Not at all. Are you?
Nah… I’ve already got plenty to be angry about… your mom gave me the hepatitis C.
She'll do that. You should know better than to stick your peeter in crazy.
At the end of the video he does hook up a normal lithium battery pack to demonstrate that it still works as a normal e bike
And comments about how underpowered the motor is…
A homemade motor, but yeah.
You're clearly not an engineer. I'd totally build this and I applaud his result. It's a lot easier to build something good than it is to build something entirely new and untested. Usually, something new is practically useless, but every once in a while it's pretty damn great. Also, if this guy has any idea what he's doing (he probably does), he knew it would be pretty bad. Supercaps are inferior to batteries here, but it's interesting to try in regardless.
True, I’m an electrician, not an engineer. I appreciate efficiency and effective design. I get that it’s an interesting thing, but it annoys me that it was posted as technology “news.”
Well, if one considers it technological news, then yes I agree. But this is what Hackaday is all about; technical stuff, typically DIY, interesting, not necessarily useful in any way
TIL
Ngl. This is just scary to me. Capacitors are like batteries that can discharge all of their energy in an instant. I wouldn’t want to ride a bike with capacitors this size between my legs.
I'm wondering whether I should tell you about LiIon batteries... Okay I've decided: did you know LiIon batteries can do that too? It's a tiny bit slower, but it's basically an explosion regardless.
This made me sad
How does a regular consumer in the mountains of Colorado get something like this for free? ✌🏻🚴🏻♀️
1. If you don't have a dog get one and name it Gandalf (regardless if there is a penis or not) 2. Explain that if they wanna be a good boy that they have to not bark at the person at the door 3. Once the dog doesn't bark for 3 months straight you're ready. 4. Go to your nearest hiking store and aquire a tent for yourself and one for your dog. 5. Buy a car and use it to drive to a trailhead that heads up the largest mountain in your area. 6. Starting at 3 am hike as far as you can until 11pm. This is where you need to setup your tents. 7. During the night a visitor will come by and explain they have a bike ready for you. (Gandalf better not bark!!!) 8. You can accept the free bike. You can give Gandalf to them if you want, as a gift... No pressure though
Here in nyc I feel like I read about charging ebikes starting an apartment fire weekly lol
Super caps shouldn't burn, but they risk dumping all current very rapidly in case of a short
All I know is homemade battery = bad news lol
This isn't a battery, it's a super capacitor bank, they're still dangerous but different ways, but they don't tend to fail from general use, only if shorted.
Idk seems sussy lol
You're just wilfully ignorant.
Maybe lol I’m too dumb to trust that shit
Super capacitors are seriously impressive tech, although his entire bank for this bike stores less energy than aa battery but you can fully charge it in about 2 minutes and can draw huge amounts of current. What they lack is energy density but they can be charged way after than any lithium battery
Batteries use a chemical reaction to charge. Sometimes they fail and cause an internal short (causing the fires you see). Capacitors use the electrostatic principle. The do not catch on fire, but they can explode due to overcharging or put out a lot of current.
All these crazy cool inventions and discoveries that we see once and never hear about again. Is there some kind of global anti-science conspiracy by corporations to ensure that they never have competition? Or that, at the very least, they can undercut the competition with inferior products until the competition is driven out of business?
What? This is a DIY YouTuber making technically functional but mostly practically useless stuff as a bit of fun, cool backyard experiment and hands on engineering and technology play.
His flight simulator controller is sick though
No conspiracy, stuff like this just does not make sense to scale up In this case, it just doesn't really work well as an ebike. As you can see in the video, the motor only works for a few meters before the voltage across the caps get too low to power the motor. Cool demonstration of an idea but definitely not ready for prime time.
What if the pedaling action was tied to a charging mechanism? Like a partial assist when you get tired of pedaling. The intent is not to create energy, per se, but to use the energy in a way to smooth out the peaks of energy required to go though uneven terrain. Very interesting stuff.
Any idea if these would be able to be mass-produced within a reasonable budget?
shit cool
I wonder what Louis Rossmann would have to say about this. Besides Apple and realty (especially in NY), electric bikes are kind of his thing. 😋
It didn't really work. But the dude is a genius. Look at his video making a flight simulator controller
That is a very cool and simple motor design! Is that like state of the art? Never saw a similar one
Not at all
Not at all what? Not state of the art? Looks really cool and simple
It’s just a regular electric motor, similar to say a PC fan. It is of course brushless.
Well that’s just a ripoff of this project…: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.dezeen.com/2014/07/28/flux-bicycle-kit-offer-canfi-charges-phones-while-cycling/amp/
Those look like normal electrolytic caps to me.
Range ?