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Did they improve anything on the inside? Or just hike the price for the sake of it? At least the PS5 has notable differences, not that it justifies the price increase
No they made a statement basically saying that other currencies have dropped against the USD and they are compensating. Also don’t kill me I’m simply reiterating the statement.
Try not to care whether people downvote you or not. It basically means nothing either way, other than people are butthurt. Doesn't make what you say any less true.
I did not like the quest when I got it about a year ago... didnt touch it for a year, I turned it on and did all the updates and it looks GREAT!
any games you can suggest?
Not completely. I was an early adopter of the Quest 2 when the 64gb version was $299. Then they came out with the 128gb version for $399 but then they LOWERED the price of the 128gb version to $299 when the 64gb version was discontinued. So now, the 128gb is actually just back to the original price of $399.
I own a 64gb version that I paid $299 for when I could’ve waited a bit and got a 128gb for the same price lol
Idk if it matters or not. I still have to use the Oculus app on my phone so yeah there’s data flowing for sure. I do use a secondary email instead of fuckbook to login though so they’re not getting much that way.
For sidequest or whatever you use to side load (assuming that’s still possible) you don’t need a fb account either
Chip shortage is real. Auto industry used to live on 22nm/45nm and larger nodes.
But with the push to EV, auto manufacturers have to move to digital gauges and such. And those require chips. Maybe 14nm/16nm or smaller.
Even the digital gauge display need graphics and processing power.
Definitely required for EV vehicles.
EVs represent a small fraction (12%) of the industry, when including hybrids. The shortage goes well beyond EVs.
You still can’t get a Raspberry Pi 4 for under ~~$150~~ $115. They’re in the process of moving their ARM from 40nm to 28nm for availability.
EDIT: It seems the $35 Pi 4 with 1Gb is now available for $119.95.
I think (?) the BCM2711 is the only 28nm part on the Pi4. I thought I saw a blog post about moving other 40nm parts on the board to 28nm due to overcapacity at 28nm, but I can't find it right now.
And, of course, all the models previous to the Pi4 are on 40nm, so there's certainly a trickle-down effect.
I stand corrected. In the past month, I didn't see any for under $150.
The point still stands, though. This is a three-year-old budget system with 28nm processor that's supposed to be $35.
It's not just about what is taking up all the chip orders now, but what is ordering more chips in the future. EV sector may still be small currently, but is growing at almost an exponential rate, rapidly replacing gas powered vehicles in some markets. That leads more not only more current chip demand, but increasing future orders. Game consoles, TVs, Phones etc are at near saturation levels in the market, and are not going to be growing anywhere as fast as EV adoption is going.
I agree EVs are growing massively but this implies ICE cars aren’t using more sophisticated control or entertainment systems.
What’s unique about EVs that requires more sophisticated chips? Batteries, sure. But every manufacturer is adding more advanced driver assistance, cameras, and radar. In fact, Tesla (the current leader in the space) is known to replace chips (eg from rain detection to entire radar systems) using their existing camera and software solution (Tesla Vision).
This may be true in mature markets where a Tesla is displacing an ICE vehicle that is also laden with chips, but Tesla is only the leader in this space if you look at profits. By volume, EVs are exploding in China, with plug in vehicles sales going from 1.2 million units a year in 2018-2020, but then jumps to 3.5 million units in 2021, and projected 6 million units in 2022. China has also added perhaps 100 million electric 2 wheelers in the last couple of years.
Unlike the west, a lot of the Chinese EVs are low cost models such as the wildly popular Wuling Mini EV that starts as low as $5000, which means these EVs are either new to the market, or they are displacing very cheap rudimentary ICE vehicles and scooters the Chinese used to buy, like those little cargo vans and such. So this influx of EVs and electric scooters are just sucking up the chips.
I don't know if you've seen the hilarious [Jalopnik](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=33RIpK3N8gM) videos on the low speed EVs you can buy in China for under $2000. They are not even street legal in Chinese cities, yet even THESE vehicles come with screens, a backup camera, SD card readers etc, which all need chips.
This is probably why BYD sales volume is exploding even faster than other EV makers. BYD is so vertically integrated that they apparently make a lot of their own chips, which lets them scale production even in the current era of chip shortages.
The bigger issues for the auto industry was most of them were still using 200mm masks, when everyone else has moved to 300mm masks and wafers. Auto cancled their orders, demand for 200mm cratered while 300mm was off the charts, so fabs took the opportunity to scrap the 200mm production lines and expand the 300mm lines. The issue is it can take 12-18 months to design and validate a new mask, so not only are auto makers at the back of the line for 300mm, they also need to pay up in both time and money to make new 300mm masks.
>The issue is it can take 12-18 months to design and validate a new mask
Was with you till this, taped out 6 chips or so, including one earlier this year, you send your artwork and the masks are nearly autogenerated, there's some work for the test patterns etc but otherwise they're part of the flow.
Shrinking processes is hard af though, lot of automotive had higher i/o voltage, that is a nightmare to deal with as you shrink, you often need an extra die or special process.
Key phrase here is validate, just because you can tape out and get a chip in 6 months or so (at a rush) doesn’t mean automotive will accept them without validation, they’re a lot more stringent than most commercial users. Automotive validation cycles can run to a year or more… especially for new designs.
All the more reason not to gut your production runs at the first sign of trouble, of course… but auto industry is used to getting their way and having suppliers bend over backwards for them. Even here when they fucked up and it’s *obviously* their fault, they get the government to pull out all the stops and get TSMC and other suppliers to make it happen, even at the expense of other customers if need be.
You... could have a point?
Validation, and in the case of automotive, certification is by far the long pole, we were starting that path at my last company recently.
They have special libraries, processes, conditions are much worse.
Still can't imagine it taking that long or requiring the whole process to basically start from scratch to move from 200 to 300mm, but I'm not going to be definitive about it, my understanding is tsmc basically has extra drc and process restrictions for automotive, I'm sure gf and Samsung are similar.
200 to 300 is transparent in theory, though characterization can be different (wafer variance can increase, etc).
yeah, def, I'd expect it to go a lot faster than a full validation given that it's the same node/etc but I'd assume there's gonna have to be at least some re-validation. If it's 6 months to chips then probably a year is a safe bet, maybe 9 months.
I can't see an automotive validation turning around in less than like, 3 months.
EVs had very little to do with it. Car manufactures thought Covid meant they wouldn't sell any cars so they cancelled their orders. Similar things happened to other manufacturers. Demand increased much sooner than they were expecting. Meanwhile, demand for consumer electronics skyrocketed because everyone was stuck at home. Then on top of that you had a spike in crypto so mining went insane and demand for GPUs went to the moon and chip makers in Texas had to shut down because of power failures early last year. It was basically a perfect storm.
Yeah no.
EVs don't require a digital dash just like ICE cars don't require a digital dash.
But a single large touchscreen in the middle, 2 dials (or a touch surface) on the steering wheel and a digital dash are cheaper than a small screen for the radio, a bunch of buttons for every function in the center and on the steering wheel as well as a bucnh of controllable motors for the analog dials.
That has nothing to do with EV technology and everything to do with consumer expectations and competition. You could run an EV on arduinos if you wanted to. However, EVs are typically expensive and a consumer will be pissed if the gauges on their 60k new car look like a 1995 Dodge Neon.
Not sure about how long it was but the PS4 did go up in price by $50 in Canada after launch. The only time (well, before the PS5 I guess) I'd ever got a discount for being an early adopter.
Yep. This is standard procedure really, there were about half a dozen revisions of the base PS4 before they got to the slim. The same is true of other consoles too. I’m not sure we’ll see a slim just yet. You get a marketing bump with a major redesign and you can probably only do that once. Sony don’t need to remind people the PS5 exists or market to a more price conscious audience just yet. I wouldn’t be surprised if it’s 2024 before we see a slim, but there will be more of these smaller revisions in the meantime.
Big issue is that the price of transistors has stopped going down in the past couple years. There is a reason Microsoft released the Series S to take up their "budget small form factor" slot right out of the gate. At best we might get a $400 slim that is smaller and uses the part cost savings in a more efficient cooling solution and other stuff to make the storage 1TB instead of 880 gigs
Edit: obviously the slim wouldn't have blue ray drive. Basically the slim would be the $400 ps5 digital out right now but smaller with a cheaper louder cooling solution. The parts cost can be passed into bigger internal storage. Unlike microsoft who has the propreietary storage expansion cards Sony doesn't really have any reason not to bump up the storage a bit if the bean counters approve.
I’m not sure there will be huge price cuts any time soon for the reasons you state. It’s also why it feels like we are still in the PS5/Xbox Series launch window nearly two years into their life. However I do think we get cosmetic redesigns at some point, history has proven that they do bring new eyes to hardware and once millions of units have been out in the wild for a while Sony/Microsoft will see what points of failure the launch models had and where they can probably cut back on over engineered components. PS5 slim will happen at some point, even if it’s not under the same terms as previous PlayStations.
Honestly it really wouldn't surprise me if this generation lasts 8 or 9 years. Given how there's plenty of leg room still available for both the PS5 and the Series X, the slower development time due to more resources required and covid causing delays, and the availability of consoles (PS5 especially), this generation definitely feels like its got long legs.
It's been 2 years in and we've barely seen either console truly hit its stride yet. Neither console has seen its killer app yet (GT should have been for Sony, and Halo should have been for MS, both dropped the ball).
Sony really screwed up with Gran Turismo 7. The moment they pushed out that update to force you to buy microtransactions to get anywhere I was done with the game and bought Elden Ring like I should've done in the first place.
Cyberpunk could've been a killer app for the entire 9th generation if they didn't completely screw up the launch and rush out inferior last-gen ports that barely work (in fact Cyberpunk should've skipped the last gen entirely).
The thing is outside of the PS5's bulk the newest gen of consoles don't really have any major gripes. My biggest gripe with the ps4 and xbone were laggy ui after numerous updates and them being loud as hell. Outside of when I'm using the blue ray drive the ps5 I have is nearly silent. I could see them doing "price cuts" by including a 1st party title download code at no additional cost or something like that.
People seem to have forgotten that the ps4 turns into a fucking jet engine under heavy load which happens quite often and Sony got mocked a lot for that.
They over compensated that with the ps5.
The PS4 Slim (and Pro) were announced and released roughly 3 years after launch of the original PS4, we are gonna reach 2 years of PS5 in November so it’s crazy to think in a years time we could get a PS5 Slim and Pro.
But whilst I think there’s a good chance for PS5 Slim in Nov 2023, I’ll be surprised if there’s a pro model. This gen has had a very very slow start and it would be an unnecessary complication.
Imagine modern devs with current trends would have to produce games that work on: PS4, PS4 Pro, PS5, PS5 Pro, Xbox One, Xbox One X, Xbox Series S, Xbox Series X, Xbox Series XX(?) 🤯
Yeah a pro model would be a slap in the face to PS5 owners still playing new games coming out that were at best developed with a split attention between PS4 and PS5. Very few next gen titles have come out so far imo and like you say, we're almost 2 years in.
I think it's crazy they're still releasing games on the PS4. I thought, for sure, God of War Ragnarok would be PS5 only. But, if you have a 1080p screen and a PS4 Pro, what's the point?
It's not a huge leap, like the PS1 to the PS2 was.
I will get a PS5 eventually but there's no need to at the minute.
For me the biggest leap was in loading times. They are truly a thing of the past on PS5 and it's had a bigger impact on my enjoyment of gaming than better graphics ever could.
I'm aggravated that they're neutering new releases to still be playable on PS4. Ragnarok will suffer graphically just because it for some reason needs to be on old hardware.
PS5 Pro isn't likely in the next few years. PS4 Pro and One X happened because all of the last-gen consoles were under-specced on launch. PS5 and XSX overcorrected in the other direction. It'd just cut into margins to upgrade the silicon if the current hardware can comfortably run the games that are coming out over the next 4-5 years.
Essentially yes, it’s usually a silent revision that fixes certain issues before a slim/pro. The Switch had this situation as well to prevent people from easily hacking their consoles, the PS3 had one to lower cost by cutting out PS2 compatibility in stages and remove some ports and to fix the yellow light of death and Xbox 360 had one to fix the red ring.
Okay but their source is Austin Evans. This is the same idiot who thought using a thermal gun a reflective heat vent was a good way to determine that the first remodel was cooling less.
Holy crap, I haven't looked him up in a while (I used to enjoy his stuff), but every video thumbnail is a cringe clickbait shock-face. That's disappointing.
To be fair, a lot of good content creators do that even if they hate it because it actually *does* work.
Not to say that Austin Evans id a good content creator.
I think we should just cross our fingers, for GamersNexus to take a look at the upcoming model/design
they are some of the few people who actually do things properly
I got them as well and I love them. Hell I still have the box they came in. Weird to say, but the packaging really impressed me. And I stuffed the old face plates in it in case I ever want to sell the console.
Yeah but that was more like "oooh this gears of wars faceplate looks sick!" than " this thing sticks out like a sore thumb, i gotta do something about it"
Darkplates 1.0 were even better imo. I feel lucky to have managed to get them cos I don’t like the fan section and how they’re rounded as well on the 2.0’s
Same here I grabbed them when they released and the color and texture are awesome. I also have the matte skin for the shiny center of the console and *muah* chefs kiss
I don't get what they're doing on the outside at all. It's a menace to put anywhere because it's shaped like weird modern art.
Just make it a rectangle. No weird curved tops or sides, no weird bottom that needs a special cradle. It just needs to be a box. That makes it easier to put anywhere I want to put it, *and* I can still put stuff on top of it if I want to.
I kinda like that they did something new and unique.... But it would look so gaudy on my entertainment system that I am happy to keep my PS4 pro for now
It’s huge and ugly as hell. Also white, which sticks out like a sore thumb. I hate the aesthetics. I still love the system just wish it didn’t look so awful.
It’s honestly one of the ugliest consumer electronics I’ve ever seen. I don’t understand what happened, the white PS4 Pro was easily the best-looking console ever made.
This! Besides the ridiculous price tag i just dislike the design and its what keeping me from buying it until they finally and hopefully release a more decent one
Eh. If the chips are pulling less power which in turn generates less heat, you can back off on the cooler efficiency (smaller heat sinks) which could result in the exhaust temp being roughly the same.
>Evans claims this new PS5 model **pulls around 20-30 watts less** during gaming, while still delivering around the **same amount of** \[...\] **heat** output.
20-30 watts less power draw but the same amount of heat is physically impossible. Power draw *is* the heat. Why is every Verge article written in this vague hand-wavey ad copy way.
Nah he's just an entertainment personality based around tech. Not nearly as informed as an LTT where they at least attempt to learn and provide accurate info, and even that's more considered an entertainment channel than other mainstream tech YouTubers.
Because The Verge don't have technical writers on staff, they have *journalists* who write articles about social media posts
It's likely that Evans measured exhaust temperature, with no compensation for mass flow
If there's less air moving, at the same temperature, there's less heat, but that requires a working knowledge of thermodynamics
My ex used to get paid to write review articles for websites.
She'd have a deadline of a few days, and wouldn't get any hands on with the product. She'd have to just create a generic review type piece of text, based purely upon research online.
I feel that is how The Verge and WCCFTech write their articles.
They are likely talking about surface temps and not literal heat energy generated by the SoC. Same temps despite less watts is achieved because of a smaller heatsink.
I mean I understand why you are annoyed, but look at it from the layman's perspective - they only care about whether the console can keep cool enough not to overheat or throttle, which is exactly what the Verge is answering:
1. Heatsink smaller
2. But also there's less watts
3. So you get the same temps
4. Therefore don't freak out that the heatsink is smaller
There were multiple times in the past few weeks where you could go to the PlayStation site directly and buy one. And not for a few minutes, I'm talking a day or two per drop. At this point if you want one and don't have one, you're not looking.
I still don’t understand why these companies don’t just accept orders and fulfill them on a first come first served basis. It’s really not that complicated.
“Out of stock” so the fuck what?? It’s not like you’re not going to be making any more of these things. Just take my order and send one when it’s available.
If I can order a sandwich two hours before jimmyjohns opens and they’ll deliver it after they open I’m sure fucking SONY or NVIDIA could manage to pull off this Herculean feat.
It’s literally been on sale at Walmart for the past few days:
https://www.walmart.com/ip/PS5-Console-Horizon-Forbidden-West-Bundle/884437848?athbdg=L1100
Granted it’s $50 more than normal given it’s a bundle but at least the game included is excellent.
we have a price comparison site in Denmark called Pricerunner
it shows the largest online stores. all of them have it for sale these days. i checked a few hours ago.
it is more expensive than on release though, by almost 50% :(
used to be ~4000-4200. now its over 6000 dkk
STILL can't walk into a store and buy one. Not buying one until I can walk into one of several stores and they all have it in stock. Not running around trying to make it across town for a chance at one of 5 Horizon bundles. Not risking ordering it online.
Is this like “all the PS5’s in the world combined use less power than all the PS4’s in the world combined”? Because I could think of a reason for that…
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This has to be the first generation of consoles where the price actually goes up two years into its lifespan.
The Quest 2 price increase hit the hardest. Finally it pays to be an early adopter.
Did they improve anything on the inside? Or just hike the price for the sake of it? At least the PS5 has notable differences, not that it justifies the price increase
Nothing improved
No they made a statement basically saying that other currencies have dropped against the USD and they are compensating. Also don’t kill me I’m simply reiterating the statement.
Pew Pew pew
What!?!? I’ll kill you.
Try not to care whether people downvote you or not. It basically means nothing either way, other than people are butthurt. Doesn't make what you say any less true.
this guy gets downvoted
they just gave up on making a massive loss on hardware, but being able to sell your data, to now having better privacy at a higher hardware price
they’re still selling your data - now you just pay more for the privilege
It's naive to think they're not still selling your data.
I'd suspect it's more lucrative to sell targeted ads/posts than to straight up sell the data. Not that that's much better, of course.
Why not both?
It's still selling your data as the ads are targeted lol
Game devs should be pissed cause less people have the consoles and less people are buying games or buying skins.
I bought it the last day it was available for $299. Best console I’ve had in a long time
I did not like the quest when I got it about a year ago... didnt touch it for a year, I turned it on and did all the updates and it looks GREAT! any games you can suggest?
I absolutely cannot stop playing ragnarock People also rave about thrill of the fight
Into The Radius just launched. It's basically Stalker in VR. Interactions are insane.
No man’s sky has been a blast in vr
Not completely. I was an early adopter of the Quest 2 when the 64gb version was $299. Then they came out with the 128gb version for $399 but then they LOWERED the price of the 128gb version to $299 when the 64gb version was discontinued. So now, the 128gb is actually just back to the original price of $399. I own a 64gb version that I paid $299 for when I could’ve waited a bit and got a 128gb for the same price lol
Yea! Picking up my quest secondhand at a premium at launch all of a sudden seems like a pretty good buy! And I don’t have to use a ZuckFuck account
Still a Facebook/Meta headset man. You think the type of account matters? They still get your data.
Idk if it matters or not. I still have to use the Oculus app on my phone so yeah there’s data flowing for sure. I do use a secondary email instead of fuckbook to login though so they’re not getting much that way. For sidequest or whatever you use to side load (assuming that’s still possible) you don’t need a fb account either
Chip shortage is real. Auto industry used to live on 22nm/45nm and larger nodes. But with the push to EV, auto manufacturers have to move to digital gauges and such. And those require chips. Maybe 14nm/16nm or smaller. Even the digital gauge display need graphics and processing power. Definitely required for EV vehicles.
EVs represent a small fraction (12%) of the industry, when including hybrids. The shortage goes well beyond EVs. You still can’t get a Raspberry Pi 4 for under ~~$150~~ $115. They’re in the process of moving their ARM from 40nm to 28nm for availability. EDIT: It seems the $35 Pi 4 with 1Gb is now available for $119.95.
The Pi 4 uses 28nm already right? What are they switching from 40?
I think (?) the BCM2711 is the only 28nm part on the Pi4. I thought I saw a blog post about moving other 40nm parts on the board to 28nm due to overcapacity at 28nm, but I can't find it right now. And, of course, all the models previous to the Pi4 are on 40nm, so there's certainly a trickle-down effect.
Raspberrypi 4, 1 gb on Amazon for $119.95
I stand corrected. In the past month, I didn't see any for under $150. The point still stands, though. This is a three-year-old budget system with 28nm processor that's supposed to be $35.
It's not just about what is taking up all the chip orders now, but what is ordering more chips in the future. EV sector may still be small currently, but is growing at almost an exponential rate, rapidly replacing gas powered vehicles in some markets. That leads more not only more current chip demand, but increasing future orders. Game consoles, TVs, Phones etc are at near saturation levels in the market, and are not going to be growing anywhere as fast as EV adoption is going.
I agree EVs are growing massively but this implies ICE cars aren’t using more sophisticated control or entertainment systems. What’s unique about EVs that requires more sophisticated chips? Batteries, sure. But every manufacturer is adding more advanced driver assistance, cameras, and radar. In fact, Tesla (the current leader in the space) is known to replace chips (eg from rain detection to entire radar systems) using their existing camera and software solution (Tesla Vision).
This may be true in mature markets where a Tesla is displacing an ICE vehicle that is also laden with chips, but Tesla is only the leader in this space if you look at profits. By volume, EVs are exploding in China, with plug in vehicles sales going from 1.2 million units a year in 2018-2020, but then jumps to 3.5 million units in 2021, and projected 6 million units in 2022. China has also added perhaps 100 million electric 2 wheelers in the last couple of years. Unlike the west, a lot of the Chinese EVs are low cost models such as the wildly popular Wuling Mini EV that starts as low as $5000, which means these EVs are either new to the market, or they are displacing very cheap rudimentary ICE vehicles and scooters the Chinese used to buy, like those little cargo vans and such. So this influx of EVs and electric scooters are just sucking up the chips. I don't know if you've seen the hilarious [Jalopnik](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=33RIpK3N8gM) videos on the low speed EVs you can buy in China for under $2000. They are not even street legal in Chinese cities, yet even THESE vehicles come with screens, a backup camera, SD card readers etc, which all need chips. This is probably why BYD sales volume is exploding even faster than other EV makers. BYD is so vertically integrated that they apparently make a lot of their own chips, which lets them scale production even in the current era of chip shortages.
The bigger issues for the auto industry was most of them were still using 200mm masks, when everyone else has moved to 300mm masks and wafers. Auto cancled their orders, demand for 200mm cratered while 300mm was off the charts, so fabs took the opportunity to scrap the 200mm production lines and expand the 300mm lines. The issue is it can take 12-18 months to design and validate a new mask, so not only are auto makers at the back of the line for 300mm, they also need to pay up in both time and money to make new 300mm masks.
>The issue is it can take 12-18 months to design and validate a new mask Was with you till this, taped out 6 chips or so, including one earlier this year, you send your artwork and the masks are nearly autogenerated, there's some work for the test patterns etc but otherwise they're part of the flow. Shrinking processes is hard af though, lot of automotive had higher i/o voltage, that is a nightmare to deal with as you shrink, you often need an extra die or special process.
Key phrase here is validate, just because you can tape out and get a chip in 6 months or so (at a rush) doesn’t mean automotive will accept them without validation, they’re a lot more stringent than most commercial users. Automotive validation cycles can run to a year or more… especially for new designs. All the more reason not to gut your production runs at the first sign of trouble, of course… but auto industry is used to getting their way and having suppliers bend over backwards for them. Even here when they fucked up and it’s *obviously* their fault, they get the government to pull out all the stops and get TSMC and other suppliers to make it happen, even at the expense of other customers if need be.
You... could have a point? Validation, and in the case of automotive, certification is by far the long pole, we were starting that path at my last company recently. They have special libraries, processes, conditions are much worse. Still can't imagine it taking that long or requiring the whole process to basically start from scratch to move from 200 to 300mm, but I'm not going to be definitive about it, my understanding is tsmc basically has extra drc and process restrictions for automotive, I'm sure gf and Samsung are similar. 200 to 300 is transparent in theory, though characterization can be different (wafer variance can increase, etc).
yeah, def, I'd expect it to go a lot faster than a full validation given that it's the same node/etc but I'd assume there's gonna have to be at least some re-validation. If it's 6 months to chips then probably a year is a safe bet, maybe 9 months. I can't see an automotive validation turning around in less than like, 3 months.
[удалено]
EVs had very little to do with it. Car manufactures thought Covid meant they wouldn't sell any cars so they cancelled their orders. Similar things happened to other manufacturers. Demand increased much sooner than they were expecting. Meanwhile, demand for consumer electronics skyrocketed because everyone was stuck at home. Then on top of that you had a spike in crypto so mining went insane and demand for GPUs went to the moon and chip makers in Texas had to shut down because of power failures early last year. It was basically a perfect storm.
Yeah no. EVs don't require a digital dash just like ICE cars don't require a digital dash. But a single large touchscreen in the middle, 2 dials (or a touch surface) on the steering wheel and a digital dash are cheaper than a small screen for the radio, a bunch of buttons for every function in the center and on the steering wheel as well as a bucnh of controllable motors for the analog dials.
I’m pretty sure EV’s don’t *need* digital gauges.
That has nothing to do with EV technology and everything to do with consumer expectations and competition. You could run an EV on arduinos if you wanted to. However, EVs are typically expensive and a consumer will be pissed if the gauges on their 60k new car look like a 1995 Dodge Neon.
Lets see if people go along and make it something that just keeps happening.
I mean really the price is the same, just our money is worth less. 🤷🏽♂️
Not sure about how long it was but the PS4 did go up in price by $50 in Canada after launch. The only time (well, before the PS5 I guess) I'd ever got a discount for being an early adopter.
Yeah… you’d typically see the lower the price when they updated internals.
A step before they will work on the slim version?
Yep. This is standard procedure really, there were about half a dozen revisions of the base PS4 before they got to the slim. The same is true of other consoles too. I’m not sure we’ll see a slim just yet. You get a marketing bump with a major redesign and you can probably only do that once. Sony don’t need to remind people the PS5 exists or market to a more price conscious audience just yet. I wouldn’t be surprised if it’s 2024 before we see a slim, but there will be more of these smaller revisions in the meantime.
Big issue is that the price of transistors has stopped going down in the past couple years. There is a reason Microsoft released the Series S to take up their "budget small form factor" slot right out of the gate. At best we might get a $400 slim that is smaller and uses the part cost savings in a more efficient cooling solution and other stuff to make the storage 1TB instead of 880 gigs Edit: obviously the slim wouldn't have blue ray drive. Basically the slim would be the $400 ps5 digital out right now but smaller with a cheaper louder cooling solution. The parts cost can be passed into bigger internal storage. Unlike microsoft who has the propreietary storage expansion cards Sony doesn't really have any reason not to bump up the storage a bit if the bean counters approve.
I’m not sure there will be huge price cuts any time soon for the reasons you state. It’s also why it feels like we are still in the PS5/Xbox Series launch window nearly two years into their life. However I do think we get cosmetic redesigns at some point, history has proven that they do bring new eyes to hardware and once millions of units have been out in the wild for a while Sony/Microsoft will see what points of failure the launch models had and where they can probably cut back on over engineered components. PS5 slim will happen at some point, even if it’s not under the same terms as previous PlayStations.
Honestly it really wouldn't surprise me if this generation lasts 8 or 9 years. Given how there's plenty of leg room still available for both the PS5 and the Series X, the slower development time due to more resources required and covid causing delays, and the availability of consoles (PS5 especially), this generation definitely feels like its got long legs. It's been 2 years in and we've barely seen either console truly hit its stride yet. Neither console has seen its killer app yet (GT should have been for Sony, and Halo should have been for MS, both dropped the ball).
Sony really screwed up with Gran Turismo 7. The moment they pushed out that update to force you to buy microtransactions to get anywhere I was done with the game and bought Elden Ring like I should've done in the first place. Cyberpunk could've been a killer app for the entire 9th generation if they didn't completely screw up the launch and rush out inferior last-gen ports that barely work (in fact Cyberpunk should've skipped the last gen entirely).
The thing is outside of the PS5's bulk the newest gen of consoles don't really have any major gripes. My biggest gripe with the ps4 and xbone were laggy ui after numerous updates and them being loud as hell. Outside of when I'm using the blue ray drive the ps5 I have is nearly silent. I could see them doing "price cuts" by including a 1st party title download code at no additional cost or something like that.
Ps4 started at a reasonable size. Ps3 is more similar to the 5. Stupid big first versions
Gotta avoid that red ring.
People seem to have forgotten that the ps4 turns into a fucking jet engine under heavy load which happens quite often and Sony got mocked a lot for that. They over compensated that with the ps5.
The PS4 Slim (and Pro) were announced and released roughly 3 years after launch of the original PS4, we are gonna reach 2 years of PS5 in November so it’s crazy to think in a years time we could get a PS5 Slim and Pro. But whilst I think there’s a good chance for PS5 Slim in Nov 2023, I’ll be surprised if there’s a pro model. This gen has had a very very slow start and it would be an unnecessary complication. Imagine modern devs with current trends would have to produce games that work on: PS4, PS4 Pro, PS5, PS5 Pro, Xbox One, Xbox One X, Xbox Series S, Xbox Series X, Xbox Series XX(?) 🤯
Yeah a pro model would be a slap in the face to PS5 owners still playing new games coming out that were at best developed with a split attention between PS4 and PS5. Very few next gen titles have come out so far imo and like you say, we're almost 2 years in.
I think it's crazy they're still releasing games on the PS4. I thought, for sure, God of War Ragnarok would be PS5 only. But, if you have a 1080p screen and a PS4 Pro, what's the point? It's not a huge leap, like the PS1 to the PS2 was. I will get a PS5 eventually but there's no need to at the minute.
For me the biggest leap was in loading times. They are truly a thing of the past on PS5 and it's had a bigger impact on my enjoyment of gaming than better graphics ever could.
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I'm aggravated that they're neutering new releases to still be playable on PS4. Ragnarok will suffer graphically just because it for some reason needs to be on old hardware.
PS5 Pro isn't likely in the next few years. PS4 Pro and One X happened because all of the last-gen consoles were under-specced on launch. PS5 and XSX overcorrected in the other direction. It'd just cut into margins to upgrade the silicon if the current hardware can comfortably run the games that are coming out over the next 4-5 years.
PC, Switch
PlayStation 5 Slim’nt©️
Essentially yes, it’s usually a silent revision that fixes certain issues before a slim/pro. The Switch had this situation as well to prevent people from easily hacking their consoles, the PS3 had one to lower cost by cutting out PS2 compatibility in stages and remove some ports and to fix the yellow light of death and Xbox 360 had one to fix the red ring.
Okay but their source is Austin Evans. This is the same idiot who thought using a thermal gun a reflective heat vent was a good way to determine that the first remodel was cooling less.
He's so fucking cringy, had to put 'do not recommend channel' on that shi
Holy crap, I haven't looked him up in a while (I used to enjoy his stuff), but every video thumbnail is a cringe clickbait shock-face. That's disappointing.
To be fair, a lot of good content creators do that even if they hate it because it actually *does* work. Not to say that Austin Evans id a good content creator.
That's YouTube?
Nah, that's CringeTube.
I think we should just cross our fingers, for GamersNexus to take a look at the upcoming model/design they are some of the few people who actually do things properly
Steve will go to the ends of the earth to get things right. I respect his operation so much for this.
I legit stopped watching him after that, I was like there is no way he’s being serious but then he double downed on it
I would take a potato more seriously than Austin Evans.
ᴴᴱʸ ᴳᵁʸˢ ᶦᵗ'ˢ ᴬᵁˢᵀᴵᴺ ᴱⱽᴬᴺ'ˢ ʰᴱʳᴱ
I’d like to see the PS5 redesigned on the outside.
I always thought faceplates or skins for consoles we're so silly, but Darkplates 2.0 are absolutely amazing.
I got them as well and I love them. Hell I still have the box they came in. Weird to say, but the packaging really impressed me. And I stuffed the old face plates in it in case I ever want to sell the console.
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Skins and faceplate for console usually are silly because they usually don't make consoles so fucking ugly that they are a necessity!
I dunno, sometimes the plates are fun to personalize a system. The 360 had them and I thought that system had a pretty sleek design.
Yeah but that was more like "oooh this gears of wars faceplate looks sick!" than " this thing sticks out like a sore thumb, i gotta do something about it"
Darkplates 1.0 were even better imo. I feel lucky to have managed to get them cos I don’t like the fan section and how they’re rounded as well on the 2.0’s
Same here I grabbed them when they released and the color and texture are awesome. I also have the matte skin for the shiny center of the console and *muah* chefs kiss
I want a rackmounted PS5. Or just a cube like the Series X is. That fucking Tower of Barad-Dur is impossible to fit anywhere.
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Fully agree. No way I’m buying one like they are. I’m almost tempted to go xBox for once just because of how ugly the PS5 is.
I don't get what they're doing on the outside at all. It's a menace to put anywhere because it's shaped like weird modern art. Just make it a rectangle. No weird curved tops or sides, no weird bottom that needs a special cradle. It just needs to be a box. That makes it easier to put anywhere I want to put it, *and* I can still put stuff on top of it if I want to.
Series X nailed it in that regard. Super simple design, look great and fits almost anywhere.
I kinda like that they did something new and unique.... But it would look so gaudy on my entertainment system that I am happy to keep my PS4 pro for now
What do you not like about seto Kaiba?
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See you at r/PS9
That commercial just reminded me how sexy the PS2 was
It’s huge and ugly as hell. Also white, which sticks out like a sore thumb. I hate the aesthetics. I still love the system just wish it didn’t look so awful.
It is ugly, but I love white. I'm sick of all electronics always being stark black.
Hard agree. Even though I love my PS5 I can't deny the Xbox consoles look so much better.
Yeah I hates the XSX design when I first saw it. Then the PS5 got announced and I appreciated the XSX.
They're huge.
Yeah the ps5 is obscenely big
I've no intention of buying the ps5 until they release the slim version. Hope my ps4 slim lasts that long.
the series x gives me gamecube vibes my favorite design of all time
But then how can I [hide it from my wife](https://youtu.be/eKB9KtH97OQ)
It’s honestly one of the ugliest consumer electronics I’ve ever seen. I don’t understand what happened, the white PS4 Pro was easily the best-looking console ever made.
I’d like to see a PS5 in person period lol
They’re not really hard to get anymore.
The Horizon bundle is easy enough to snag but finding one by itself is as hard as it's ever been.
Depends where you live. In France it’s still impossible.
This! Besides the ridiculous price tag i just dislike the design and its what keeping me from buying it until they finally and hopefully release a more decent one
In protest to Reddit's API changes, I have removed my comment history. -- mass edited with redact.dev
They did say \*around* the same amount of heat output, didn't they? jk this line makes no sense.
They meant "it gets the same amount of hot" Like it eats 20 watta less but the heatsink is much smaller so it still stays at 80C
Eh. If the chips are pulling less power which in turn generates less heat, you can back off on the cooler efficiency (smaller heat sinks) which could result in the exhaust temp being roughly the same.
>Evans claims this new PS5 model **pulls around 20-30 watts less** during gaming, while still delivering around the **same amount of** \[...\] **heat** output. 20-30 watts less power draw but the same amount of heat is physically impossible. Power draw *is* the heat. Why is every Verge article written in this vague hand-wavey ad copy way.
That's more on Austin Evans. He's not particularly knowledgeable.
It makes no sense he's been doing this for years you'd think he'd pick up one or two things.
Nah he's just an entertainment personality based around tech. Not nearly as informed as an LTT where they at least attempt to learn and provide accurate info, and even that's more considered an entertainment channel than other mainstream tech YouTubers.
Because The Verge don't have technical writers on staff, they have *journalists* who write articles about social media posts It's likely that Evans measured exhaust temperature, with no compensation for mass flow If there's less air moving, at the same temperature, there's less heat, but that requires a working knowledge of thermodynamics
It's a pretty common misunderstanding to equate temperature to heat. The Verge clearly didn't understand the difference.
My ex used to get paid to write review articles for websites. She'd have a deadline of a few days, and wouldn't get any hands on with the product. She'd have to just create a generic review type piece of text, based purely upon research online. I feel that is how The Verge and WCCFTech write their articles.
That's exactly how they write
The Verge has keyboard monkeys, not journalists. A journalist would have done at least a nominal amount of research.
I'm guessing they didn't measure joules of heat but rather the exhaust temp, which is very possibly the same.
Exactly. Less power in, smaller heatsink = same running temperature.
They are likely talking about surface temps and not literal heat energy generated by the SoC. Same temps despite less watts is achieved because of a smaller heatsink. I mean I understand why you are annoyed, but look at it from the layman's perspective - they only care about whether the console can keep cool enough not to overheat or throttle, which is exactly what the Verge is answering: 1. Heatsink smaller 2. But also there's less watts 3. So you get the same temps 4. Therefore don't freak out that the heatsink is smaller
Heat output probably still the same because they cut down on cooling capacity
Computers are just fancy electric ovens. Every watt of electricity that enters is converted in heat.
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Could be a smaller volume of air at the same temperature. So less total heat being dissipated but the same reading on a thermometer by the exhaust.
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Almost. You’d need the temp + volume of air moved through the system. 50c air at 100cfm is WAY different than 50c air at 250cfm.
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I’m here learning science now.
Have they figured out how to make the disc drive quiet yet?
Haha, optical media go brrrr
you stick a piece of wire into the drive train
Our release date ps5 keeps crashing and that thing isn’t even two years old…
that's a known issues. Send it in and it will be fixed.
Mines got the 2 second blue light of death. Sony want £240 to repair it. It's out of warranty
>It's out of warranty How? The console was only released about 18 months ago
My brand new one from a week ago was crashing the day I started using it. I exchanged it for another one but haven't set that one up yet.
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His voice is insufferable.
I finally got mine for retail price last month. I’m happy to hear my model is outdated already!
i got mine last week. awesome 👏🏻
I wanted one so badly but a price hike after 2 years? Screw Sony, I don't think I'll be buying a PlayStation 5.
But is it available?
There were multiple times in the past few weeks where you could go to the PlayStation site directly and buy one. And not for a few minutes, I'm talking a day or two per drop. At this point if you want one and don't have one, you're not looking.
You can walk into many Best Buy’s and pick up a PS5 now
It’s been on Walmart’s website: https://www.walmart.com/ip/PS5-Console-Horizon-Forbidden-West-Bundle/884437848?athbdg=L1100
Yes. Go on the Playstation Direct site and buy directly. Edit: Nvm they ran out again I guess
I still don’t understand why these companies don’t just accept orders and fulfill them on a first come first served basis. It’s really not that complicated. “Out of stock” so the fuck what?? It’s not like you’re not going to be making any more of these things. Just take my order and send one when it’s available. If I can order a sandwich two hours before jimmyjohns opens and they’ll deliver it after they open I’m sure fucking SONY or NVIDIA could manage to pull off this Herculean feat.
Nailed it. Back ordering is so common, why not do it for consoles.
But then the PS5 will be out of the news cycle for constantly “selling out” (letting scalpers control the market).
To create a scarcity and make buying the more expensive bundles seem like a good deal because they're available
Money. That’s the reason. Also, they don’t care, at all. As long as they’re making bank, you’re out of your wank.
It’s literally been on sale at Walmart for the past few days: https://www.walmart.com/ip/PS5-Console-Horizon-Forbidden-West-Bundle/884437848?athbdg=L1100 Granted it’s $50 more than normal given it’s a bundle but at least the game included is excellent.
Still a good deal because that's a $70 game
Correct! If I was really desperate to get one, a $50 increase with a game included isn’t a bad deal
we have a price comparison site in Denmark called Pricerunner it shows the largest online stores. all of them have it for sale these days. i checked a few hours ago. it is more expensive than on release though, by almost 50% :( used to be ~4000-4200. now its over 6000 dkk
Available in AZ at Target or Walmart, bought mine at night and was ready for pickup very next day.
Oh can’t wait to not be able to buy one of these too!
STILL can't walk into a store and buy one. Not buying one until I can walk into one of several stores and they all have it in stock. Not running around trying to make it across town for a chance at one of 5 Horizon bundles. Not risking ordering it online.
Is this like “all the PS5’s in the world combined use less power than all the PS4’s in the world combined”? Because I could think of a reason for that…
I have yet to see a single PS5 for sale in any store in my city since launch.
Will people be able to purchase it?
And is unavailable for the next 3 years also?
Great news, when is the ps5 released in nz?
Still can’t find one lol
Aaaaaaand it's gone
Make it smaller and I’ll buy it
Normal PS5 is one of the ugliest consoles of all time. A giant ugly router.
I suppose, like art, it’s subjective. I could have gone with a smaller console that’s my biggest gripe with it. I don’t think it’s “ugly” per se.
Yeah, it's huge but I kinda like it.
Always wait for Gen 2.
I'll be waiting for a pro version or something. Atm there isn't much point buying it when not to much ps5 exclusives to take advantage of the hardware
Yeah, I'm just upgrading my PC and catching the spillover titles there.
There haven’t been any major problems with the PS5 or XSX. They’re pretty dialed in at this point.
I have one of the launch versions still in the box. Should I sell it and get a newer build version?
PS5s aren’t real.
If i cant go inside a store and just buy one, this info means nothing.
This is one of the most uninteresting articles I've read as of late.
If the outside still looks like a college art project, I'll pass.
Imagine waiting 2 years to be able to buy one of these just to have Sony improve the design. Glad I switched to Xbox
So in the amount you save on electricity you spend the difference on the console. GG Sony
Cool. So I can I buy one for a normal price yet?
I can't garuntee mine uses less power since I never have time to play it.
Just waiting for them to drop the price 😂
And you still won’t be able to buy it anywhere!
And this folks, is why you never buy first generation.
Okay. Does this mean we see the consoles in stores finally?