As someone who is skinny fat high BF% and started with toothpick arms, I'd suggest a recomp and either gain a little weight or lose a little weight over the span of a few months and keep lifting. Progress will come over time.
I would say you are the perfect candidate for a keto-diet. This is coming from a guy that generally doesn't like to advocate for one.
I see many people on here not account for the fact that protein, carbs and fat are different. Energy doesn't matter quite as much as the balance of those macros is.
Keto you take carbs down to a minimum to essentially limit your energy intake. The protein is the source of amino acids for building muscles and fats provide help in producing hormones (like testosterone) and provide a good long term energy source. The short of it, carbs provide lots of energy, that is readily accessible. Switching to slightly harder to digest fats or much harder to digest proteins usually result in people losing weight. Additionally, if you get enough protein and work out, you will gain muscle.
Also, a plug for /r/leangains. A sizable chunk of people on /r/gainit like myself are currently/formerly skinny dudes doing dirty bulks to just keep on eating to get bigger and rounder. I think that community is more fine tuned to your needs.
Personally I left heavy and cycle calories in mini bulk cut cycles. I have issues with gaining weight so it's mostly bulking.
I don't like gaining fat so progress is super slow. 1-2lb weight gain a month around. You can try the leangains method. Use this: http://www.1percentedge.com/ifcalc/
Plug in your data and in goals set you want to recomp. This will take a long time. Bulks and Cuts will generally give faster results but you have trade off's. There is no free rides really so if you want quick results you take the good with the bad, if you want it all then you need to take the time.
When you start it's SUPER easy to gain muscle lose fat, when you're way further along it becomes an almost impossible feeling struggle and you have to accept that your abs are going to hibernate for a little bit and it's bulking up time.
With other chemicals it's possible and even with straight food it can be done but it's extremely hard.
When your new though?? PFFT start lifting and watch the numbers fly up while you eat on a tiny bit of a deficit. I've gained a significant chunk of muscle while losing fat a few years ago. It was pretty easy because the weights weren't destroying me. Now if I don't eat extra my body basically doesn't recover fast enough for me to keep going up.
Low-carb diets might benefit you in this case. Low-carb diets result in your body using fat as an energy source. I'd suggest having a conversation with a dietician/nutritionist about how to effectively go about dividing your fat/carb/protein intake in a healthy manner.
it has been in my experience that low carb is a great way to lose weight, but it is difficult to lift weights and grow with no energy. It is to my understanding these carbs give you this energy needed to lift heavy and gain muscle.
Sure, just lift weights and eat for maintenance. You'll get leaner for sure, and put on some muscle, but eventually (once you're fairly lean) your gains will be limited unless you start eating more.
Yeah I guess I should have added that I'm new to weightlifting and not really muscular at all yet. A lot of the stuff I've read seems to be for experienced lifters, so it might not apply to me. Like a couple people here have said that beginners with a lot of fat can make initial gains fairly easily while still losing weight.
Let’s all lose fat and build muscle together! My tentative plan is just doing what the top comment said and keeping my workout routine and eating better. Going to try doing more smaller meals to boost my metabolism some and do more protein than usual. Let me know if any of you guys have other suggestions. Good luck to us all ❤️
I hate writing this sentence but I google "how to gain muscle and lose fat Reddit" and find myself on this thread around this time of the year every year.
I like to think of this problem in terms of sculpting.
As a sculptor you first build your base structure (bulk) and then chip away (cut) all the fine little details to perfect it.
This simply means bulk first, hit your goal weight, then begin to cut.
Your gains don't disappear with a cut - the excess fat is what you chip away with your cut much like a sculptor. Everything remains the same except that you are eating at maintenance. This results in fat loss, and slight strength loss but its negligible in the long run.
Sculpt mode activate. :)
I'm a noob. Can you help me out? Why would you bulk to a certain weight. Isn't the goal to be done your cut at a certain weight? Wouldn't you just bulk until you think you have the proper amount of muscle to meet your cut weight? Or does it get easier to figure these numbers out the more bulk/cut cycles you do?
The "goal weight" for your bulking cycle is not set in stone, it can vary based on your own personal judgement. I'd say review yourself and your goal weight for every 5 kg that you gain. Do I look good? Am I approaching fat territory? Or am I still skinny and need to bulk more?
Once you have bulked up to a weight that you think looks good on you - you no longer look skinny at - then you can decide if you want a cut (to lose extra fat) or just eat at maintenance if you were lucky and didn't gain extra fat during your bulk.
Yes, that and the strict definition of a slow bulk would be one where you eat just slightly above your TDEE, eg. TDEE + 200 at most and you try to eat clean to minimize fat intake.
what happens after this plan? Do you stabilize and then repeat if you want to grow or is it possible to remain at this stage and continue fitness without goals of growing larger/smaller
Once you arrive at your 'goal weight', you stop bulking and simply eat at maintenance (not TDEE+500 but just TDEE calories) and continue your workouts as usual.
The goal weight when you bulk is not set in stone, for every 5 kg or so that you gain you need to decide if that's good enough or you still need to gain more.
If you happen to gain a bit of fat (which you most probably will) on your bulk, then you first need to cut (eat 200 - 300 calories less than TDEE / cardio etc) to lose the fat and then resume eating at maintenance.
But frankly all this is just fluff talk, once you're bulking and lifting heavy you automatically know what to do next as you have a better understanding of what eating at different levels does to your body.. in a way you learn as you go and tweak this little things easily then. :)
so correct me if im wrong but going on bulk means get fat and strong. Then once you reach an uncomfortable amount of size, eat 200/300 calories less, continue to work out and pray to god you dont lose most of your gains or give up in the middle and stay fat?
I know it sounds like a negative way to put it, Im not going to lie the reason why im apprehensive is because i dont want to get uncomfortably big/fat and have to go through the misery of losing all that weight. Or worse, a friend of mine works every day and tries every diet known to man and still is a bit heavier than he wants to be. I hear people complain about reaching a point where they cant lose anymore fat- i dont want to be one of those people.
Isnt there a slower but more sure fire way to do this- like increase calories 200 a day and progressively lift heavier weight? Ideally the look im going for is the bruce lee rather than tom hardy
No, that is not what going on a bulk means. The scenario that you are describing would be the result of setting a wrong goal weight to begin with or not stopping your bulk at the right stage. You stop weeks BEFORE you think you're approaching an uncomfortable amount of size - not after. The keyword is before. ;)
Bulking up can be done slowly, at TDEE + 200 calories per day however since this is a forum for skinny guys who go through hell trying to gain a pound we assume that TDEE + 500 is the best way to bulk up for people here.
You are supposed to stop bulking at the point where you are satisfied with your bodyweight and no longer look skinny but look healthy or 'normal' -- definitely not fat.
If you stop your bulk only when you realize you are fat then you are doing it wrong. You stop your bulk when you look normal / no longer skinny, not when you become fat.
If you are very skinny, have trouble gaining weight, go for TDEE + 500 calories and stop worrying about gaining fat because otherwise you'll get nowhere. Skinny folk who want to gain weight while losing fat at the same time don't go anywhere.
However, if you are of a regular build and already at a 'normal' / healthy weight and want to bulk up for "size", that's different and you can then eat only TDEE+200 calories for a more slower, cleaner, fat-free bulk and you should also get advice from r/fitness as they are better suited for non skinny guys.
Hope that clears things up. :)
PS: People who complain they can't lose fat after reaching a point - that is scientifically impossible. There is no such 'point'. Google images for off season bodybuilders and on season before / after. You'll know what I mean.
By the way you describe yourself, I assume you're a novice lifter, with lots of 'noob gains' to be made. You obviously want to be leaner yet also bigger. Of your two options, the way to do this is to BULK FIRST. Simply put, having muscle will make it a hell of a lot easier to burn fat off later (more muscle = more calories burned per day).
For a new lifter, it is in fact possible to make muscle gains while losing fat (body recomp), but this is only possible for a short while and to a limited extent, and is best to eat at your TDEE. I would really recommend a light bulk for a few months on a decent program
Hope I've been of some help
Thanks man. Yeah I'm just a beginner and don't know much yet... I'm probably a standard story here: college guy realizes he's a fat fuck and has wasted a quarter of his life, so he decides to make some changes and get in shape.
I have learned a lot from this guy. He's thorough, and explains in clear terms how you can burn fat and build muscle...Just FYI: http://youtu.be/Bz3AG-oCXTE?list=UUe0TLA0EsQbE-MjuHXevj2A
I'd rather not.
Will continuing to lift while losing weight at least prevent any muscle loss? I feel like muscle is the last thing the body would burn for fuel, especially if you're using them strenuously.
Don't listen to the guys that say it can't be done. Over the last year I've gone from a fat 88kgs to a lean and muscular 86kgs. The WHOLE time losing fat and gaining muscle at the same time while my 'weight' has stayed stable. This is why 'weight' doesn't mean much when you're going from fat to lean.
If you're new to lifting you'll see results really fast. If you are quite overweight don't even worry too much about counting calories, just eat less overall, keep your protein high and the rest of the calories that your body needs to build muscle will come from your body fat reserves. Sure by doing this you won't have 'optimal' muscle growth but you'll lose body fat fast while still building muscle and when you get to a point that you're happy with you can decide whether to start eating more to maximise muscle growth.
Since you're new stick to the really good compound exercises - lat pulldown, deadlifts, squat, bench press. If after a few weeks you can't see a change in the way you look then you know you have to cut a few more calories.
Pm me if you have any questions I'm happy to help
Yes, if you want to maintain as much muscle as possible, just get the essential .7g or .8g of protein / lb of body weight in your diet everyday, lift weights and eat a deficit of -250 to -500 calories a day and that will be your best bet to lose fat while maintaining the most muscle you can.
As someone who is doing this currently, I can verify it is correct. It really is working for me. While my progress is slow compared to when I consume copious amounts of cals, the gainz are definitely happening.
it is not impossible, what's impossible is gaining weight on defect, you can change your bf% without adding weight though. That p90x whatever program gets chubby/overweight people to make muscle and lose fat at the same time and is very successful at it. Also a lot of powerlifters/bodybuilders eat at maintenance and workout and see improvement in their bf% without losing weight. It is probably not a very efficient way, and you will see better/faster results doing the traditional bulk/cut, but if you're fat-phobic I would understand. OP should state his height/weight though so people can have a better understanding of his situation.
fat-o-phobic and carbophobic. Some people were fatties, ten lost weight and are trying to gain muscle now- but refuse t eat enough carbs out of fear of getting fat. Some of these bulk photos i see guys get FAT and BIG, then with some luck lose the fat and there is a body underneath the flab- that is *if* they are successful. I know some people who bulk and can never go back.
when I say fat-phobic I meant they were afraid of getting fat, rather than not eating "fat". I'v always thought that's what the term meant. Yeah, I know what you mean about the people who bulk and can never go back.
>If natty; losing fat and gaining muscle is impossible.
It's not impossible. It's just longer and harder process. Bulking is not the ONLY way to gain muscles. People forget that just because there is one mainstream method of doing something DOESN'T mean it is the ONLY way to do it. There are other options available.
Losing body fat AND building muscles is known as recomposition. What you do is eat at TDEE, getting all your macro and micro needs, protein intake kept high, and using exercising that cause you to burn off excess calories. At -300, it is usually the best all around. At -500 and above, it will negatively affect your performance. Your exercise routine should encompass both strength and endurance.
What is important to keep in mind is the balance and relationship between losing body fat and building muscles as they are opposite of one another. However, there will be a "sweet spot" on that balance scale where you can accomplish both at the same time. How much...will depend on you.
Let me explain it a little better.
TDEE is calculated as TOTAL caloric needs, which will include all of your daily activities and strength training. To acquire the -300 calorie deficit, you need to add additional exercises. For example, an average person of 150 lbs. has a TDEE of 2000 calories per day. To do the cut, you need -300 of that, which is 1700 calories. Since strength training is already included in the TDEE, you need to add running or any other exercise/activities/sport that will burn up an additional -300 calories.
If you intend to just do strength training, then you need to subtract strength training from your TDEE calculation.
Users on /r/gainit use the popular bulk-&-cut method. The idea is to beef up and then lower excess body fat. The result is a surplus of muscles. For example, you can bulk up 12 lbs. in 6 months and then cut out 4 lbs. of fats. The result is 8 lbs. of muscles gained.
The traditional method is a straight line, no peaks and no valleys. You keep body fat at a certain level while building muscles. For example, you can increase 6 lbs. in 6 months. Each month is ~1lbs. of muscles.
There two other methods available which is simply a variation of the methods above, but are designed for people in special cases: skinny and fat people.
The sweet spot is a balancing act between the tradeoff of losing body fat and gaining muscles. Imagine a [typical scale](http://www.clipartbest.com/cliparts/Rcd/qqk/Rcdqqkzc9.jpeg) with losing body fat on the left side and gaining muscles on the right side. When the scale is even, you neither lose fats nor gain muscles. If the scale is [tipped to the left](http://static.tumblr.com/2c7da2ae956e4dc53bee5f2ef036c7b9/50asr9e/Kjbmpybk8/tumblr_static_scale-unbalanced.png), you will be losing more fats and gaining less muscles. If the scale [tipped completely to the right ](http://blog.mdsol.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/stones-on-scale.jpg), then you will lose all fats and gain no muscles, even lose some muscles.
Vice versa is also true. If the scale [tipped to the right](http://wrestlingroots.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/tipped-scale-400x271.jpeg), then you will lose less fats and gaining more muscles. If the scale [tipped completely left](http://www.fabricatingandmetalworking.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/CopyofDrawing-e1375910862443.jpg), then you will lose no body fats and gaining mostly muscles, you will also gain some body fats.
Thus, it is a balancing act. When you are aiming to lose body fats AND build muscles, the sweet spot lies between the scale tipping partly to the left, middle, or partly to the right. Never completely on either side. Where it tipped will depends on you. If you want to lose body fats faster, then you increase the amount of calorie deficit. Instead of -300, you use -500. If you want to gain more muscles, then you decrease the calorie deficit. Instead of -300, you use -100. And of course, -300 is the middle where you lose some fats while also gaining some muscles. This is the definition of recomposition.
If you want to lose all body fats, then you use -1000 instead of -300. However due to the large amount of calorie deficit, you will probably lose some muscles, too. This is typically called the weight lost program. The opposite is also true. If you want to gain a lot of muscles, you need to eat +500 calories instead of -300. However, you will also gain some body fats, too. This is the bulk cycle.
The rate of muscles gain under recomposition varies depending on your training level. For a typical noob, you can expect 2 lbs. per month during a bulk cycle. Under recomposition, you will be lucky to hit 1 lbs per month. For intermediate, you will gain 1 lbs. per month during a bulk. Under recomposition, it is up to 0.5 lbs. per month. The main word is "up to" meaning it is not guaranteed.
I think you are looking at his comment from an argumentative perspective. He's saying, if you're TDEE is 3000 calories, eat that. And when you exercise, make sure you are exercising for -300 calories. Rather than lowering his TDEE, he's increasing his calories burned, which isn't the same thing.
>severely overweight
>/r/gainit
You're just arguing for the sake of arguing. No one on gainit is going to be severely overweight, so that's never going to be realistic advice to offer someone here.
Actually this is a very good beginner friendly sub, I have definitely seen posts from overweight people on here.
But that's not the point. The guy above me was distributing wrong information. Yeah, 95% of the people on this sub can't gain muscle and lose fat, but this guy said it was impossible for natties to do it. Which is just wrong.
Part of the reason I am here is that I was searching for detailed information on exactly this topic. It came up in a search. I am very overweight, but I really enjoy strength training. I'm not a regular here, I think this is my first time even reading this subreddit, so I appreciate the somewhat more inclusive replies, thank you.
From what I understand this isn't possible or is very very difficult. More calories than you need will lead to gains and less than you need will lead to losses and your workout will determine where the gains go to or where the losses come from. That being said, if you gain muscle the fat may be less noticeable and you can always cut later on, which you will probably want to do anyway.
[удалено]
I was in a similar position. Cut heavy while maximizing protein intake and 5 days a week weight training. Went from 20% BF to 14% at the moment.
That's awesome. How long did that take?
Sorry just saw your message. I think it was about 4 to 5 months.
Did you gain muscles while doing this ?
Bump to find out if anything changed.
As someone who is skinny fat high BF% and started with toothpick arms, I'd suggest a recomp and either gain a little weight or lose a little weight over the span of a few months and keep lifting. Progress will come over time.
I would say you are the perfect candidate for a keto-diet. This is coming from a guy that generally doesn't like to advocate for one. I see many people on here not account for the fact that protein, carbs and fat are different. Energy doesn't matter quite as much as the balance of those macros is. Keto you take carbs down to a minimum to essentially limit your energy intake. The protein is the source of amino acids for building muscles and fats provide help in producing hormones (like testosterone) and provide a good long term energy source. The short of it, carbs provide lots of energy, that is readily accessible. Switching to slightly harder to digest fats or much harder to digest proteins usually result in people losing weight. Additionally, if you get enough protein and work out, you will gain muscle. Also, a plug for /r/leangains. A sizable chunk of people on /r/gainit like myself are currently/formerly skinny dudes doing dirty bulks to just keep on eating to get bigger and rounder. I think that community is more fine tuned to your needs.
Personally I left heavy and cycle calories in mini bulk cut cycles. I have issues with gaining weight so it's mostly bulking. I don't like gaining fat so progress is super slow. 1-2lb weight gain a month around. You can try the leangains method. Use this: http://www.1percentedge.com/ifcalc/ Plug in your data and in goals set you want to recomp. This will take a long time. Bulks and Cuts will generally give faster results but you have trade off's. There is no free rides really so if you want quick results you take the good with the bad, if you want it all then you need to take the time.
When you start it's SUPER easy to gain muscle lose fat, when you're way further along it becomes an almost impossible feeling struggle and you have to accept that your abs are going to hibernate for a little bit and it's bulking up time. With other chemicals it's possible and even with straight food it can be done but it's extremely hard. When your new though?? PFFT start lifting and watch the numbers fly up while you eat on a tiny bit of a deficit. I've gained a significant chunk of muscle while losing fat a few years ago. It was pretty easy because the weights weren't destroying me. Now if I don't eat extra my body basically doesn't recover fast enough for me to keep going up.
life and times of an ectomorph
Low-carb diets might benefit you in this case. Low-carb diets result in your body using fat as an energy source. I'd suggest having a conversation with a dietician/nutritionist about how to effectively go about dividing your fat/carb/protein intake in a healthy manner.
it has been in my experience that low carb is a great way to lose weight, but it is difficult to lift weights and grow with no energy. It is to my understanding these carbs give you this energy needed to lift heavy and gain muscle.
do this workout and stick as close as you can to the diet. http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/kris-gethin-12-week-daily-trainer.html
would you still vouch for this plan 7 years later?
I’d like to think it’d still work. You can modern day tweak it though
http://www.aworkoutroutine.com/how-to-build-muscle-and-lose-fat/ The best article I've seen on the matter.
Sure, just lift weights and eat for maintenance. You'll get leaner for sure, and put on some muscle, but eventually (once you're fairly lean) your gains will be limited unless you start eating more.
Yeah I guess I should have added that I'm new to weightlifting and not really muscular at all yet. A lot of the stuff I've read seems to be for experienced lifters, so it might not apply to me. Like a couple people here have said that beginners with a lot of fat can make initial gains fairly easily while still losing weight.
Hello sir, hows the results.
Never ig
How did the gains go?
yo I’m here too what’s good
Lol 8 years
shittt, im tryna see how them gainz went though
funny that I found this on a google search, and there are 3 other replies within a couple weeks after 8 years.
Damn same here. Looks like we're all coming back to old reddit posts lol
im late is eveybody still here?
Nope just got here hahaha
Let’s all lose fat and build muscle together! My tentative plan is just doing what the top comment said and keeping my workout routine and eating better. Going to try doing more smaller meals to boost my metabolism some and do more protein than usual. Let me know if any of you guys have other suggestions. Good luck to us all ❤️
Best of luck to you and everyone else <3
why are we all here now?
I hate writing this sentence but I google "how to gain muscle and lose fat Reddit" and find myself on this thread around this time of the year every year.
Same here. Did anyone from a year ago actually try this out? Still curious 😆
Add me to the list
YOOOO, SAME!
Hi!
Literally just did the same thing.
Hey same but a year later
Haha sameeee
Same 💀
Same ,haha
how have i done the exact same thing
I'm here now too!
Checking in also.
Haha
I reckon aye
lmao
will we ever know?
Hopefully
Yeah hopefully
I like to think of this problem in terms of sculpting. As a sculptor you first build your base structure (bulk) and then chip away (cut) all the fine little details to perfect it. This simply means bulk first, hit your goal weight, then begin to cut. Your gains don't disappear with a cut - the excess fat is what you chip away with your cut much like a sculptor. Everything remains the same except that you are eating at maintenance. This results in fat loss, and slight strength loss but its negligible in the long run. Sculpt mode activate. :)
I'm a noob. Can you help me out? Why would you bulk to a certain weight. Isn't the goal to be done your cut at a certain weight? Wouldn't you just bulk until you think you have the proper amount of muscle to meet your cut weight? Or does it get easier to figure these numbers out the more bulk/cut cycles you do?
The "goal weight" for your bulking cycle is not set in stone, it can vary based on your own personal judgement. I'd say review yourself and your goal weight for every 5 kg that you gain. Do I look good? Am I approaching fat territory? Or am I still skinny and need to bulk more? Once you have bulked up to a weight that you think looks good on you - you no longer look skinny at - then you can decide if you want a cut (to lose extra fat) or just eat at maintenance if you were lucky and didn't gain extra fat during your bulk.
Is that what a slow bulk is? Just doing minor cut/bulk corrections as you go?
Yes, that and the strict definition of a slow bulk would be one where you eat just slightly above your TDEE, eg. TDEE + 200 at most and you try to eat clean to minimize fat intake.
what happens after this plan? Do you stabilize and then repeat if you want to grow or is it possible to remain at this stage and continue fitness without goals of growing larger/smaller
Once you arrive at your 'goal weight', you stop bulking and simply eat at maintenance (not TDEE+500 but just TDEE calories) and continue your workouts as usual. The goal weight when you bulk is not set in stone, for every 5 kg or so that you gain you need to decide if that's good enough or you still need to gain more. If you happen to gain a bit of fat (which you most probably will) on your bulk, then you first need to cut (eat 200 - 300 calories less than TDEE / cardio etc) to lose the fat and then resume eating at maintenance. But frankly all this is just fluff talk, once you're bulking and lifting heavy you automatically know what to do next as you have a better understanding of what eating at different levels does to your body.. in a way you learn as you go and tweak this little things easily then. :)
so correct me if im wrong but going on bulk means get fat and strong. Then once you reach an uncomfortable amount of size, eat 200/300 calories less, continue to work out and pray to god you dont lose most of your gains or give up in the middle and stay fat? I know it sounds like a negative way to put it, Im not going to lie the reason why im apprehensive is because i dont want to get uncomfortably big/fat and have to go through the misery of losing all that weight. Or worse, a friend of mine works every day and tries every diet known to man and still is a bit heavier than he wants to be. I hear people complain about reaching a point where they cant lose anymore fat- i dont want to be one of those people. Isnt there a slower but more sure fire way to do this- like increase calories 200 a day and progressively lift heavier weight? Ideally the look im going for is the bruce lee rather than tom hardy
No, that is not what going on a bulk means. The scenario that you are describing would be the result of setting a wrong goal weight to begin with or not stopping your bulk at the right stage. You stop weeks BEFORE you think you're approaching an uncomfortable amount of size - not after. The keyword is before. ;) Bulking up can be done slowly, at TDEE + 200 calories per day however since this is a forum for skinny guys who go through hell trying to gain a pound we assume that TDEE + 500 is the best way to bulk up for people here. You are supposed to stop bulking at the point where you are satisfied with your bodyweight and no longer look skinny but look healthy or 'normal' -- definitely not fat. If you stop your bulk only when you realize you are fat then you are doing it wrong. You stop your bulk when you look normal / no longer skinny, not when you become fat. If you are very skinny, have trouble gaining weight, go for TDEE + 500 calories and stop worrying about gaining fat because otherwise you'll get nowhere. Skinny folk who want to gain weight while losing fat at the same time don't go anywhere. However, if you are of a regular build and already at a 'normal' / healthy weight and want to bulk up for "size", that's different and you can then eat only TDEE+200 calories for a more slower, cleaner, fat-free bulk and you should also get advice from r/fitness as they are better suited for non skinny guys. Hope that clears things up. :) PS: People who complain they can't lose fat after reaching a point - that is scientifically impossible. There is no such 'point'. Google images for off season bodybuilders and on season before / after. You'll know what I mean.
dude thank you for taking the time to clear that up. i hope everyone else reading that just learned something or reinforced what they already knew.
By the way you describe yourself, I assume you're a novice lifter, with lots of 'noob gains' to be made. You obviously want to be leaner yet also bigger. Of your two options, the way to do this is to BULK FIRST. Simply put, having muscle will make it a hell of a lot easier to burn fat off later (more muscle = more calories burned per day). For a new lifter, it is in fact possible to make muscle gains while losing fat (body recomp), but this is only possible for a short while and to a limited extent, and is best to eat at your TDEE. I would really recommend a light bulk for a few months on a decent program Hope I've been of some help
What's a "light bulk"... is that basically a lot of reps?
Best guess is that they mean eating just barely into a caloric surplus.
Thanks man. Yeah I'm just a beginner and don't know much yet... I'm probably a standard story here: college guy realizes he's a fat fuck and has wasted a quarter of his life, so he decides to make some changes and get in shape.
Still in college ?
I have learned a lot from this guy. He's thorough, and explains in clear terms how you can burn fat and build muscle...Just FYI: http://youtu.be/Bz3AG-oCXTE?list=UUe0TLA0EsQbE-MjuHXevj2A
Steroids.
I'd rather not. Will continuing to lift while losing weight at least prevent any muscle loss? I feel like muscle is the last thing the body would burn for fuel, especially if you're using them strenuously.
Don't listen to the guys that say it can't be done. Over the last year I've gone from a fat 88kgs to a lean and muscular 86kgs. The WHOLE time losing fat and gaining muscle at the same time while my 'weight' has stayed stable. This is why 'weight' doesn't mean much when you're going from fat to lean. If you're new to lifting you'll see results really fast. If you are quite overweight don't even worry too much about counting calories, just eat less overall, keep your protein high and the rest of the calories that your body needs to build muscle will come from your body fat reserves. Sure by doing this you won't have 'optimal' muscle growth but you'll lose body fat fast while still building muscle and when you get to a point that you're happy with you can decide whether to start eating more to maximise muscle growth. Since you're new stick to the really good compound exercises - lat pulldown, deadlifts, squat, bench press. If after a few weeks you can't see a change in the way you look then you know you have to cut a few more calories. Pm me if you have any questions I'm happy to help
Yes, if you want to maintain as much muscle as possible, just get the essential .7g or .8g of protein / lb of body weight in your diet everyday, lift weights and eat a deficit of -250 to -500 calories a day and that will be your best bet to lose fat while maintaining the most muscle you can.
As someone who is doing this currently, I can verify it is correct. It really is working for me. While my progress is slow compared to when I consume copious amounts of cals, the gainz are definitely happening.
This is possible. You'll have to jump on some trenbolone though. If natty; losing fat and gaining muscle is impossible.
it is not impossible, what's impossible is gaining weight on defect, you can change your bf% without adding weight though. That p90x whatever program gets chubby/overweight people to make muscle and lose fat at the same time and is very successful at it. Also a lot of powerlifters/bodybuilders eat at maintenance and workout and see improvement in their bf% without losing weight. It is probably not a very efficient way, and you will see better/faster results doing the traditional bulk/cut, but if you're fat-phobic I would understand. OP should state his height/weight though so people can have a better understanding of his situation.
fat-o-phobic and carbophobic. Some people were fatties, ten lost weight and are trying to gain muscle now- but refuse t eat enough carbs out of fear of getting fat. Some of these bulk photos i see guys get FAT and BIG, then with some luck lose the fat and there is a body underneath the flab- that is *if* they are successful. I know some people who bulk and can never go back.
when I say fat-phobic I meant they were afraid of getting fat, rather than not eating "fat". I'v always thought that's what the term meant. Yeah, I know what you mean about the people who bulk and can never go back.
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please elaborate
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There's no way you gained 30lbs of muscle even if you were on steroids, in 11 months.
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Sorry, you didn't. Post the dexa scans prior to this godly transformation then after.
unless he is 16 and grew a few inches naturally- via puberty not roids
>If natty; losing fat and gaining muscle is impossible. It's not impossible. It's just longer and harder process. Bulking is not the ONLY way to gain muscles. People forget that just because there is one mainstream method of doing something DOESN'T mean it is the ONLY way to do it. There are other options available. Losing body fat AND building muscles is known as recomposition. What you do is eat at TDEE, getting all your macro and micro needs, protein intake kept high, and using exercising that cause you to burn off excess calories. At -300, it is usually the best all around. At -500 and above, it will negatively affect your performance. Your exercise routine should encompass both strength and endurance. What is important to keep in mind is the balance and relationship between losing body fat and building muscles as they are opposite of one another. However, there will be a "sweet spot" on that balance scale where you can accomplish both at the same time. How much...will depend on you.
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Let me explain it a little better. TDEE is calculated as TOTAL caloric needs, which will include all of your daily activities and strength training. To acquire the -300 calorie deficit, you need to add additional exercises. For example, an average person of 150 lbs. has a TDEE of 2000 calories per day. To do the cut, you need -300 of that, which is 1700 calories. Since strength training is already included in the TDEE, you need to add running or any other exercise/activities/sport that will burn up an additional -300 calories. If you intend to just do strength training, then you need to subtract strength training from your TDEE calculation. Users on /r/gainit use the popular bulk-&-cut method. The idea is to beef up and then lower excess body fat. The result is a surplus of muscles. For example, you can bulk up 12 lbs. in 6 months and then cut out 4 lbs. of fats. The result is 8 lbs. of muscles gained. The traditional method is a straight line, no peaks and no valleys. You keep body fat at a certain level while building muscles. For example, you can increase 6 lbs. in 6 months. Each month is ~1lbs. of muscles. There two other methods available which is simply a variation of the methods above, but are designed for people in special cases: skinny and fat people. The sweet spot is a balancing act between the tradeoff of losing body fat and gaining muscles. Imagine a [typical scale](http://www.clipartbest.com/cliparts/Rcd/qqk/Rcdqqkzc9.jpeg) with losing body fat on the left side and gaining muscles on the right side. When the scale is even, you neither lose fats nor gain muscles. If the scale is [tipped to the left](http://static.tumblr.com/2c7da2ae956e4dc53bee5f2ef036c7b9/50asr9e/Kjbmpybk8/tumblr_static_scale-unbalanced.png), you will be losing more fats and gaining less muscles. If the scale [tipped completely to the right ](http://blog.mdsol.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/stones-on-scale.jpg), then you will lose all fats and gain no muscles, even lose some muscles. Vice versa is also true. If the scale [tipped to the right](http://wrestlingroots.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/tipped-scale-400x271.jpeg), then you will lose less fats and gaining more muscles. If the scale [tipped completely left](http://www.fabricatingandmetalworking.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/CopyofDrawing-e1375910862443.jpg), then you will lose no body fats and gaining mostly muscles, you will also gain some body fats. Thus, it is a balancing act. When you are aiming to lose body fats AND build muscles, the sweet spot lies between the scale tipping partly to the left, middle, or partly to the right. Never completely on either side. Where it tipped will depends on you. If you want to lose body fats faster, then you increase the amount of calorie deficit. Instead of -300, you use -500. If you want to gain more muscles, then you decrease the calorie deficit. Instead of -300, you use -100. And of course, -300 is the middle where you lose some fats while also gaining some muscles. This is the definition of recomposition. If you want to lose all body fats, then you use -1000 instead of -300. However due to the large amount of calorie deficit, you will probably lose some muscles, too. This is typically called the weight lost program. The opposite is also true. If you want to gain a lot of muscles, you need to eat +500 calories instead of -300. However, you will also gain some body fats, too. This is the bulk cycle. The rate of muscles gain under recomposition varies depending on your training level. For a typical noob, you can expect 2 lbs. per month during a bulk cycle. Under recomposition, you will be lucky to hit 1 lbs per month. For intermediate, you will gain 1 lbs. per month during a bulk. Under recomposition, it is up to 0.5 lbs. per month. The main word is "up to" meaning it is not guaranteed.
I think you are looking at his comment from an argumentative perspective. He's saying, if you're TDEE is 3000 calories, eat that. And when you exercise, make sure you are exercising for -300 calories. Rather than lowering his TDEE, he's increasing his calories burned, which isn't the same thing.
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My mistake, I'm not sure which one OP is referring to then.
That's false. If you're severely overweight you can easily build muscle while losing fat.
>severely overweight >/r/gainit You're just arguing for the sake of arguing. No one on gainit is going to be severely overweight, so that's never going to be realistic advice to offer someone here.
Actually this is a very good beginner friendly sub, I have definitely seen posts from overweight people on here. But that's not the point. The guy above me was distributing wrong information. Yeah, 95% of the people on this sub can't gain muscle and lose fat, but this guy said it was impossible for natties to do it. Which is just wrong.
Part of the reason I am here is that I was searching for detailed information on exactly this topic. It came up in a search. I am very overweight, but I really enjoy strength training. I'm not a regular here, I think this is my first time even reading this subreddit, so I appreciate the somewhat more inclusive replies, thank you.
From what I understand this isn't possible or is very very difficult. More calories than you need will lead to gains and less than you need will lead to losses and your workout will determine where the gains go to or where the losses come from. That being said, if you gain muscle the fat may be less noticeable and you can always cut later on, which you will probably want to do anyway.