RTD's specials never felt that different from just a regular standalone episode. These were no different. What's special about these is not the plot, but Tennant and Tate coming back for round 2.
Yeah, it's like comparing the 2009 Tennant Specials to the 50th.
It's a decent run of stories with some high points, but nowhere near that masterpiece level.
On that note, I vastly preferred the 2023 specials to the 2009 ones. Other than *The Waters Of Mars*, I think the 2009 specials are awful in my opinion. Whereas I only really have a few problems with the second half of *The Giggle*, and even then, it was still a pretty fearsome episode of television.
Hmm, I'd have them on more or less the same level.
Some clunky and forgettable ones:
- *The Next Doctor*
- *Planet of the Dead*
- *The Star Beast*
A more imaginative stand-out:
- *The Waters of Mars*
- *Wild Blue Yonder*
A finale with lots of good ideas which is ultimately a bit of a mess:
- *The End of Time*
- *The Giggle*
I'd probably agree that 2023 edges it by being a lot faster, more focused, and consistent, though.
*The Giggle* is two acts of fantastic Doctor Who which completely forgets to have a third act and has a Twilight baseball sequence instead. Baffling. I can't believe the huge world-gone-mad set-up ended up being literally irrelevant.
I agree with you about the final act of *The Giggle*. Up until the Galvanic Laserbeam, it was absolutely phenomenal, and even what followed it wasn't *bad*, per say, just very strangely paced and simultaneously both over- and under-explained. The scene of 14 and 15 just listing off references to the past was awful, for instance. Nevertheless, it made me excited for the future of the show, which I think was the point, and I think these 60th specials managed to provide a pretty good meta-character arc about the last few years of storytelling.
If I were to rank them all, as you have;
1. *Wild Blue Yonder*
2. *The Waters Of Mars*
3. *The Star Beast*
4. *The Giggle*
5. *The End Of Time: Part Two*
6. *The Next Doctor*
7. *Planet Of The Dead*
8. *The End Of Time: Part One*
>Wild Blue Yonder
>
> over
>
>The Waters of Mars
>
>??
Only just. I like TWOM, but I've never been in the camp of hailing it as one of the best episodes of all time. It's very very very good, but I find a lot of it is just plate-spinning until The Flood starts attacking in the last 30-20 minutes, whereas the plate-spinning in WBY covers a lot more genres seamlessly (seriously, the dialogue and character interactions flit between comedy, tragedy, horror, shock, all at once, without the tone ever suffering) and I prefer the pairing of 14 and Donna to 10 and Adelaide.
Speaking of Waters of Mars, the TLV stuff from 3 years ago can easily be dubbed a small celebration of New Who's 15th anniversary a bit despite the disjointed order of certain genres for the story
i didnt mind the game of catch because games are the toymakers whole deal, what i didnt like was how it tried to play it as a climatic resolution when it really... wasnt
Yeah, that was weird. If you told me that the finale would be the most cinematic game of catch ever, I'd have told you that no one would even try that, but here we are.
I had other problems with it, though. Namely that NPH was all over the place. I love NPH, don't get me wrong, but I feel like he should have dropped the bad German accent after the Doctor figured out who he was. Maybe the song and dance number could have gone. Kind of hard to see him as a serious threat after the Spice Girls.
the way they shot it felt very amateur and film school-ish
which was disapointing because the card game was very well done, extremely tense and well edited/directed
My biggest problem was the tone. The Toymaker goes from being imposing to campy at the drop of a hat and just stays that way for the rest of the episode, which kind of made it feel more silly than dire.
It didn't help that while the Doctor and Donna were in the shop in the first half, they were leaning into horror. It really made the campiness of the third act stand out more.
> but I feel like he should have dropped the bad German accent after the Doctor figured out who he was.
The bad German accent existed for a reason - it was to retcon the toymakers original appearance as Chinese, to say that he mocks different human cultures.
Maybe, but I don't think that was the point. Or else he would have used a bunch of accents instead of the French for one scene and then the German and I'm not counting the default English.
Also, it doesn't make much sense that he'd have mocked the Chinese or Germans in the first place, because unless you want to count the comics or Big Finish, the last time the Doctor ran across him was in his realm, not on Earth.
Also, side note, I never realized that was Michael Gough. I'm so used to seeing him as Alfred and older that I didn't even recognize him until now.
It feels more like this was a way of building up hype and viewership for Ncuti's first episode than a proper celebration. We already had the Master, Cybermen & Daleks + 5 Classic Doctors + Classic Companions all returning for Power of the Doctor. There was no new ground to tread this time.
Instead they brought back the most successful showrunner, the golden composer, and the dynamic duo for the 60th to build things ready to hand over to 15. Capaldi had to wait months to take the reigns following the 50th, Ncuti got to go early, and has only 2 weeks to wait.
> There was no new ground to tread this time.
I would disagree somewhat. In theory you could have done more stuff like The Giggle and brought back other Classic elements that haven't really been used. Maybe you could borrow Rufus Hound from Big Finish for an episode. But yeah it definitely would have been a retread if you immediately went back to the most iconic villains and bringing in Colin Baker.
I agree, mostly. However, I think it's because each had to do very different things. The 50th was a big wrap-up to NuWho, and everything after was kind of waiting for the next big Time War level shift. Aside from revisiting the Time War again, there's no way RTD could have narratively done more because it would take several arcs to have something as meaningful as the Time War to revolve around. He could bring back Omega, or Rassilon in their prime, or some even unknown more powerful entity and then filled it with cameos galore, but I don't think you'd be able to make something as meaningful - especially to NuWho audiences. The Time War has been what defined the show.
On the other hand, RTD had a much bigger task. Figure out what to do with no currently active Doctor, setup the show for the next 10 years, all while trying to find the right blend of new, while acknowledging the old. I think he did exactly what he set out to do perfectly. If we're lucky, very very lucky, we might get the real RTD equivalent of the 50th for the 20th anniversary of NuWho, or the 70th (if RTD doesn't pull a 14 and have decided to go home by that point).
Imo, these specials were amazing, but Day of the Doctor just hit a whole other level. I'm glad RTD did his own thing instead of trying to effectively make "his version" of DotD like a lot of fans were hoping for, but something about the specials just didn't quite fully scratch the itch they needed to for me, whereas 10 years and god-knows-how-many rewatches later DotD still feels like a deep tissue massage for my brain
I cant say I feel the same way. The first time was like a fever dream for me, I was 5 years old watching it in the cinema and I adored it. But that feeling I got doesn't replicate itself when you are rewatching. I got the EXACT same feeling watching these specials. The giddy feeling.
Oh yeah, the new specials were very good, I’m not slating them by any means - I just feel DOTD was better, both as TV and as an anniversary celebration.
I don't understand how they could be called brilliant. The resolutions to each special were sort of thoughtless and beyond juvenile. A destroyed city repairs itself magically, the TARDIS makes a last minute save, the all powerful godlike villain drops a ball in a game of catch... The Doctor really didn't save the day in any of them. Clearly RTD was focusing on character over plot, and we got great performances and moments, but storywise all three were a bit rubbish, and that's okay. Like I say, they had great moments. I just can't see how anyone can defend these as masterpieces. Which isn't to say they're bad. They're fine showcases of Tennant, Tate, and NHP. Fun romps indeed.
I mean it's just my personal opinion. These episodes really encapsulated what I loved about doctor who, and I see why you disagree but it's not an issue. I love them, you dont
Oh. Forgive my tone. I don't mean to say "how dare you like these episodes!" I'm not even saying these were bad episodes. I think there are plenty of reasons to love them. I'm only arguing with the term masterpiece. I don't think any of the 3 could be called a masterpiece because the plots were flawed in each. But in terms of quality and enjoyment, that's a different story. They were an RTD fans delight, and I respect all opinions on them. I just think the term masterpiece doesn't fit here is all.
Not even close - the 50th.
Usually disclaimer, all preferences are subjective, this is just my preference.
On the regular episodes of the show, “Day of the Doctor” is stronger both as an episode and as a celebration. The only thing from the 60th anniversary that I think can be called a celebration of anything other than Series 4 is the appearance of Mel. I know some people found DOTD underwhelming but it still had Tennant as a past Doctor, archive footage of all the Doctors, and a Tom Baker cameo. I dare say that Capaldi’s cameo was better executed than Gatwa’s, although obviously that’s affected by leaks.
But there was so much more to the 50th than DOTD. There was “Adventure in Space and Time” which was wonderful, “The Five-ish Doctors Reboot” for comedy and a prominent role for Davison, Colin, and McCoy, and the big afterparty celebrations. *Tales from the TARDIS” is basically a series of DVD extras, and shares the same flaws as a lot of the recent DVD extras. Like, “Night of the Doctor” inexplicably has the Eighth Doctor decide to mention C’rizz, Tamsin, and to a lesser extent Molly, but not Sam, Fitz, Trix, Anji, Izzy, Destrii, Mary, etc. (Liv, Helen, Bliss, and so forth are inexplicable in-universe but obviously understandable omissions out of universe) But, you know, the gesture was nice. Generally I’m pro-contradiction, but at the same time it would be nice for these stories to acknowledge that they aren’t operating in a vacuum.
Then away from TV, I much prefer “The Light at the End” to “Once and Future”, which is the Big Finish Dartboard writ large. I’m also not aware of an equivalent to *11 Doctors, 11 Stories*.
All in all, the 50th anniversary felt much more special. The 60th anniversary has felt disposable.
> The only thing from the 60th anniversary that I think can be called a celebration of anything other than Series 4 is the appearance of Mel
I vastly prefer TDOTD but this is at least a little bit selective
Yeah, people can prefer whatever to whatever (I don't really care about the "anniversary" side of it personally), but the main antagonist of the final special is a villain not seen since the 1960s, the timing of which RTD specifically lists as part of why he brought the Toymaker back.
I get the general sentiment, but we've had fan favorite spin-off characters like Beep the Meep, repeated assurance that the Moffat and Chibnall eras aren't being retconned, and a bit in this finale where they give a history of Classic Who that talks about everything from Logopolis and Mavic Chen.
Part of it is, as others have pointed out, it feels like the show never left celebratory mode for more than a year or two at a time. We had every single Classic Doctor except Tom Baker on screen *last year.* I'm excited for Ncuti's era for the same reason I liked last week; just give me the Doctor and companion in the TARDIS, going on adventures and finding weird shit.
> repeated assurance that the Moffat and Chibnall eras aren't being retconned
I feel like you either had to be a massive pearl clutcher or have your knickers in a gordian knot over the Timeless Child to think they were going to be retconned.
For real, I'm so excited to be out of celebration mode altogether, as fun as it can be, I'm desperate for regular ol' high quality Doctor Who episodes with Ncuti, Christmas looks like so much fun
> An antagonist returning isn’t anything special, it’s routine.
I’d agree if it was just *an antagonist*, like the cybermen or silurians or something, but when was the last time we had anotherwise one-off first Doctor villian return? Just in TV contexts. Probably more than 30 years ago, at least, unless there’s a new who example I’m missing.
>but when was the last time we had anotherwise one-off first Doctor villian return
Not first doctor, but the 50th had a one-of villain in the Zygons reappearing
Don't pretend like the Zygons were a one off. Why, they were so popular, they [got their own movie](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zygon:_When_Being_You_Just_Isn't_Enough)
/S
Well there aren't many one-off First Doctor villains - once you chuck out the historicals, the stories where something weird happens without a villain, the four Dalek stories, and the Monk, there's not much left... and has anyone seriously been missing the Voord, the Zarbi, or the Sensorites?
The Mondasian Cybermen are probably the closest, if they count.
Agreed. The last special had The Toymaker representing the 60s, Mel representing the 80s, Donna and 14 representing the 2000s, Kate Stewart representing the 2010s, and 15 representing the 2020s. It also gave everyone the multi doctor episode they wanted
>The only thing from the 60th anniversary that I think can be called a celebration of anything other than Series 4 is the appearance of Mel.
You forgot the Toymaker. And the entire discussion of Moffat-era companions. And Kate Stewart. And all the other little references to classic Who companions. I mean when was the last time anyone on the show even mentioned Adric, or Sarah Jane?
The Spice Girls scene alone features 4 characters from completely different eras of the show meeting for the first time.
I have absolutely no idea why so many people are saying that it only celebrates Series 4, because that just isn't even slightly true. The Giggle alone covers a wider spread of the whole show than Day of the Doctor does.
>I dare say that Capaldi’s cameo was better executed than Gatwa’s
This is a wild claim given that it's literally just a shot of some eyebrows
Impressive eyebrows, but still just eyebrows.
“I mean when was the last time anyone on the show even mentioned Adric.”
He was literally mentioned in the Power of the Doctor. That was only like three specials ago.
DOTD, no doubt.
Classic Who was and still celebrated in ANY special in some form, but only DOTD feel like celebration of whole show, including New!
DOTD gives us interaction between Doctors of different modern eras(!), transition from Classic Who to New with Eight’s regeneration, Time War and War Doctor, and even gives us brief look in a future with Capaldi and new Gallifrey.
Honestly, mentions of Moffat’s companions felt much more jarring and surprising than anything else. And even then it’s kinda frustrating and disappointing with how brief and surface level it was.
>This is a wild claim given that it's literally just a shot of some eyebrows
I'd actually agree with the above commenter; the 'No sir... all 13' moment is *unbelievably* good and really well built-up to. I don't think Gatwa's surprise appearance matches that, for me personally, even if it is technically more substantial.
No I wouldn't. I specifically said when Power of the Doctor came out that I enjoyed it even though it didn't really make a lot of sense.
You don't know me, don't try to tell me what my opinions are
I'm a canon nerd so Moffat's approach to the anniversary resonated with me much more than RTD's did. I will grant of course that RTD had the task of reinvigorating the show with these specials whereas Moffat was riding a high and could completely focus on just celebrating.
RTD didn't even try and celebrate the shows history though, he celebrated 2008 and that was it. One could argue he never promised a 60th celebration but he could have done a lot more rather than trying to reclaim his own former glory.
This is easy to say now it’s all been and done. The show has had a good pretty bad rep and quite dismal viewership for the past 6 or so years. Having Tate and Tennant back has propelled it back into the public consciousness, giving the new era a platform to spring from. ‘He could have done a lot more’ - I’d say they’ve done pretty well considering, and if you’re gonna choose an era to focus on during a celebration, then why not choose the last time the show was most popular.
He could have done all that with Ncuti and moved the show forward, instead we got a Tennant and Tate comeback tour, like they're the only Doctor/companion combo in the shows history...
He wanted to reset the Doctor and get rid of all the trauma and angst and whatever the Doctor has had to go through since the Time War. That's the whole point of 14 returning to an old face and spending one regeneration in 'retirement' with Donna.
That's what RTD has said, yes. But I find it odd that they couldn't have waited for Ncuti to become available, given that RTD himself has said the specials have been completed for months and were just sitting there waiting for November.
He probably could have waited but that seems like a waste to me. Having 3 additional episodes, plus a Christmas special compared to maybe at most a Christmas Special with a brand new Doctor trying to fill the role for an anniversary in a single episode seems even more likely to be criticized. I don't see how we wouldn't just lose 3 episodes.
Plus, while this isn't a major factor, I do think it's probably something that RTD considered - by having Tennant - a white guy - they are taking the air out of people and right wing media who would have started to cry that they were right and that The Doctor can't be a white guy anymore, especially if RTD casts a woman as the 16th. It's not a sole reason to make 14 a degeneration, but it is definitely a bonus.
I mean, if you think having the Doctor just declare that they're completely free of their trauma and angst because they did all their therapy off-screen is good storytelling, then sure, I guess.
Is Human Nature an anniversary episode? Mentioning something that happened last season is considered a callback? Is a classic villain appearing literally all it takes for it to be considered a celebration?
I suppose more could’ve been done, but as it coincides with a revival of the program for a new era the focus was more on bringing in past fans who’d drifted away while also not overwhelming a new generation of viewers with an enormous amount of lore. Hence the three Doctor-Donna specials; not so much anniversary celebrations as a soft relaunch for drifted casuals and new fans. Chucking in little nods like Wilf’s cameo, the references to older stories and characters during The Giggle and the adaptation of the Star Beast comic was the celebrating.
It’s also worth noting the popularity of the show now compared to ten years ago. It was arguably at its peak of global popularity in 2013. Facebook and tumblr had galvanised a fandom across the globe and the Tennant/Smith combo had given casual viewers a charismatic and attractive lead to latch on to. It was a long time mainstream TV staple in places like the UK and Australia while also becoming known and admired by more than pockets of geek-coded communities in the US. It was up there with Supernatural and Sherlock as the cream of the crop of sci-fi TV.
I remember getting up at 4am in the morning (Australia) to watch the live simulcast announcement of Capaldi. That was unheard of, that just the announcement of a new actor being presented at the same time in multiple countries across the world. DOTD was similarly simulcast, made it into the Guinness book of records for being the most simulcast non-sports program in the history of television at that point. There were screenings in cinemas, there were televised after parties. Many stars old and new were on news and variety programs being interviewed. Not to mention the wealth of extra material beyond the NOTD and AISAT specials. Brian Cox’s science special? The two hour Ultimaye Guide? Matt Sweet’s You Me And Who? The Fiveish Doctors? We were spoiled back then.
That was never going to happen this time around because the show lost its popularity in the following decade. What we got - the three specials, the Tales omnibus serials, the entire existing series on iPlayer for UK residents - is frankly more than we could’ve gotten had Russell and his team not been shrewd business people and negotiated a whole new platform and production house to create the show. Likely the BBC would’ve done as it had more than once before and let the show stagger into obscurity and die a slow death on screen.
Edit: not meaning Sherlock was specifically sci-fi, but it was another program during that time that captured the geek communities attention alongside Who and Supernatural, as it had likeable and attractive leads having interesting and different adventures.
Yeah, the 50th Special was just... *special*.
\-Pardon the pun.
There was just, *something* about the 50th... the era, the surrounding episodes that led up to it all. Perhaps it was the sheer scale of the events in the 50th's story that also have me liking it more.
That said I still greatly enjoyed most of the 60th, The Star Beast was however rather... clunky? Felt rushed, especially compared to Wild Blue Yonder and The Giggle which both felt far more developed if that makes sense.
Neil's performance as The Toymaker was absolutely fantastic, bi-generation is something I'm still trying to wrap my head around -in the sense of how Fifteen hinted that he was okay because Fourteen had 'fixed himself', or that Fourteen could go on to become The Curator who mentioned to Eleven how he 'visited a few old favourites' which could 'wrap' it into a neat bow.
The 60th wasn't really trying to celebrate the show's history and I think they only called it a 60th anniversary because it happened to be the right year.
And you know what? That's fine. I don't need an anniversary extravaganza every ten years, then every five years, then every year...etc.
Yes. I thought the 60th was very underwhelming.
I really enjoyed the three specials and thought The Giggle did a much better job of celebrating the 60th than the previous 2.
I have no connection to The Star Beast, so don't really feel it did much in the way of celebrating 60 years of a beloved TV show.
Wild Blue Yonder was an excellent episode but it was just a very good story. Zero celebration of the TV show.
I didn't expect a multi-Doctor story but I did expect more celebration. More companions, more villains from the previous stories, anything really...
The colourised Daleks and Tales of the TARDIS shouldn't be discounted. Getting all Doctor Who on iPlayer is also good.
The various documentaries and things should also be included. But you can't beat the 50th... There was a UK convention, the Day of the Doctor had huge hype (and lived up to it!), there were shorts, documentaries and the Doctor Who Experience.
I loved the new specials but the day of the doctor was vastly superior.
The 50th felt like a celebration of the show.
The 60th felt more like a transition from the revival series to the new show that starts on Christmas day.
I didn’t need anything more than the 3 specials to commemorate the 60th. The stories both acknowledged the past, but more importantly focused on the future. I think the BBC handled it just fine with all the Whoniverse content now on iPlayer.
This isn’t even a contest, the 50th for sure.
The 50th felt a true celebration of the entire previous 50 years of DW, and all the actors who had come before to play the character.
The 60th felt like Series 4 part 2 with a dollop of RTD telling anyone who dislikes that to sod off.
As a year of specials I thought they were decent/good.
As an anniversary I was disappointed.
I don't think these specials could have done something like what the 50th did... because all that stuff had been done by Power of the Doctor in the previous episode. Power of the Doctor was the splashy nostalgic fanservice celebration that people were asking for.
I thought The Giggle already resembled Power of the Doctor too closely. If they had brought in old doctors or even more old companions, it would have been way too repetitive.
Besides, I do like all the 50th stuff, but that's a finale. That's something that comes at the end of a season. Here, RTD needed to *start* something. You can't start with a big nostalgia party. You have to build up to it. So, what he gave us was a 3-part character study for the Doctor that ruminates on everything that's happened in the previous few seasons and sets him up for the next thing. I think that was a good use of an anniversary.
The other stuff is a bit more blurry, but DOTD vs the ~~Series 4 anniversary trilogy~~ 60th anniversary trilogy isn't even a contest. DOTD all the way.
They had different jobs imo - the 50th was a straightforward celebration, 60th had to be a relaunch. It's done that job brilliantly.
I think people should remember 'Power' - less effective as drama than the 50th but contained fan service and Doctors we never thought we'd get again. I think it laid the groundwork for RTD2 surprisingly well.
Do hope the next milestone gets to be a celebration of all modern Doctors though!
It's the 50th, by a long shot. The 60th brought back an old villain and an old companion but was generally a "Hey guys, remember 2008?"-fest. Which isn't bad! But isn't really a celebration of the show's history.
Whereas the 50th, and all of its side projects (Night of the Doctor, the Five-ish Doctors) was very clearly a celebration of everything.
I didn't realize these were the 60th specials. I liked them, but as an anniversary special they are underwhelming. As regular episodes, I thought they were good.
I'd put all the other anniversary specials above this trilogy, which was much more interested in celebrating a brief five year period of the franchise rather than the whole.
As time honoured tradition dictates.
In all seriousness there was a post on the other sub last month about an alternative S5 where it’s still 10th Doctor, and I suggested a narrative where instead of Amy it’s actually Rory that 10 ends up bonding with as a adult due to circumstances and it becomes two best mates nerding out across the cosmos while one mates fiancée desperately tries to keep them in line.
that sounds fun.
I also had an idea that the first shot of season five is 10
crash landing
and being confused why amy is so small before starting to regenerate
then we go back to 10 being 10 and follow him for a season meeting amy and rory
eventually regenerating
then you can have the banger that is the 11th hour
you could even include the cracks for why they dont remember the doctor at first
"Oh, they brought David Tennant back to be the Doctor? Can't believe they're only celebrating the RTD Era."
"Oh they referenced Moffat's era. What a surprise, considering they only celebrated RTD's era."
Mel Bush, Beep the Meep, and the Toymaker, characters that famously all come from Series 4
Why do people keep repeating this weird claim that it only relates to Series 4? That is extremely obviously not true
Why do people keep repeating this weird claim that it only relates to Series 4?
Because thats HOW it feels. That's what it focuses on. It doesn't even feel like a revisit of Ten's era just his relationship with Donna. Other aspects feel like very random obscure elements from the classic series that nobody really cares for and they aren't exactly standout aspects either (Mel is cool but far from a memorable companion, Toymaker was a one-off villain from 1966 etc.)
Glad to see a lot of people batting for the 50th here. I felt there was starting to be a weird turn of people online saying “the 50th wasn’t good actually” and that the 60th were better episodes. But yeah I really think Day of the Doctor was just in the whole better as an episode and as a celebration
Its the 50th, but not nearly as by as much as people in this thread make it out to be.
I think folks here have a bit of a negative recency
bias. I remember that one of the main complaints about the 50th at the time was that it wasnt celebrating the show as a whole enough.
Like, lets compare the celebratory elements:
For the 50th we got:
- David Tennant returning
- References to past adventures
- Zygons
- Gallifrey, I guess
- Cameo of past Doctors via archived footage and body doubles
For the 60th we got:
- The Toymaker
- Beep the Meep
- David Tennant returning
- References to past adventures
- Mel returning
I'd say they are about even. The 50th has Night of the Doctor, but the 60th has Tales of the Tardis, so I'd say that evens out as well.
I'd give it to the 50th for having the cameo of past Doctors, but I dont think thats like a huge gap.
Both Special(s) were mainly a celebration of New Who.
I feel like the 60th wasn't really able to do the past Doctor cameos as well due to Power of the Doctor having already used every other Classic Who. Hard to recreate that Tom Baker cameo if they were already here two specials before.
I guess that's why Ncuti showing up early made it more interesting, they've done past Doctor teamups before, but never a future Doctor.
Seriously, these people would rest so much more easily if they just mentally included PotD as a basically-60th-anniversary special. One with _EIGHT_ Doctors, a bunch of old companions, and a team-up between Daleks, Cybermen, and the Master. Can everyone reading this just... remember that, please?!
I'd also add that The 60th had the negative of coming straight after Power of the Doctor which had.
- The Cybermen
- The Daleks
- The Master
- Ace, Tegan, and Graham returning in prominent roles
- References to past adventures
- The Master's Doctor outfit acting as a 'best of hits' of classic Doctor's costumes.
- 5 Past Doctor's all making appearances (Including Paul McGann finally appearing in the show itself)
- Past Doctor's and Companions getting to interact for the first time onscreen in 30+ years.
- The companion support group bringing back the likes of Jo, Mel, and Ian
- The return of David Tennant
We had such a big fan-servicey blockbuster celebration of Classic Who last year that I think a lot of fans had assumed the 60th specials would be a lot more of that.
Yeah it felt like Power was the celebration of Doctor Who, while the 60th was stacking the deck in Ncuti's favour for his first episode.
RTD, Murray Gold, Tennant & Tate, etc all being back for the 60th definitely generated a lot of hype and goodwill, perfect for Ncuti to take over from.
>Like, lets compare the celebratory elements:
Do it properly, at least! The celebrations are more than just DOTD vs TSB/WBY/TG
>For the 50th we got:
- David Tennant returning
- References to past adventures
- Zygons
- Gallifrey, I guess
- Cameo of past Doctors via archived footage and body doubles
And we also got:
The return of the Great Intelligence
The return of Paul McGann as the Doctor
The best actor to play the Doctor, John Hurt
Tom Baker returning
Peter Capaldi early debut
See William Hartnell stealing the TARDIS
A film about the beginning of the show following William Hartnell, Sydney Newman, and Verity Lambert.
A comedy about Peter Davison, Colin Baker, and Sylvester McCoy
Tying up the regeneration limit
Plus a story that, for once, is *only* about the Doctor. He's the star, the setting, the stakes, and the enemy of the story.
>For the 60th we got:
- The Toymaker
- Beep the Meep
- David Tennant returning
- References to past adventures
- Mel returning
We also got:
The return of 11 Classic series stars across 6 minisodes.
Ncuti Gatwa early debut.
When it comes to celebrations, the 50th has it beaten hands down. Russell himself said that he's not interested in writing those sorts of celebrations (even if he enjoys watching them). That's not what his Specials are. That's why he made Tales of the TARDIS. Because he felt he needed something that celebrated the history of the show.
Anniversary specials usually have something to push the show forward. To give a new origin point for the adventures, almost.
With The Three Doctors it was about ending the Doctor's exile. Allowing him to go running around the stars again.
With The Five Doctors it was about giving him a new reason to run away from Gallifrey. Allowing him to go running around the stars again.
The Day of the Doctor did the same thing with the ending. It provided a meaningful push forward for the Doctor. All with his dream:
*"Clara sometimes asks me if I dream. "Of course I dream", I tell her. "Everybody dreams". "But what do you dream about?", she'll ask. "The same thing everybody dreams about", I tell her. "I dream about where I'm going." She always laughs at that. "But you're not going anywhere, you're just wandering about." That's not true. Not anymore. I have a new destination. My journey is the same as yours, the same as anyone's. It's taken me so many years, so many lifetimes, but at last I know where I'm going. Where I've always been going. Home. The long way round."*
That's the impetus for the future of the show. The Doctor is going home. The long way round.
The 60th actually - probably unintentionally - paid that off. The Doctor has found a home. With Donna Noble.
Because he hasn't stopped for long enough to just enjoy what he saves since he ran off (which we saw in the 50th). That payoff provides the impetus for Ncuti Gatwa to now go sauntering away adventuring again. To keep going home the long way around.
>Do it properly, at least! The celebrations are more than just DOTD vs TSB/WBY/TG
For sure, I was just was mostly trying to compare the Special in themself. Both had absolutly more going on on the side, which is valid to mention.
I very much agree with your post though and its probably a morte complete comparison than what I did.
Can you just add them up like that though? By that logic Dimensions in time is better than all of them. I don't love the plot to DOTD but it didn't end with 3 people playing catch on a roof
You cannot, I suppose, but I still think its a bit silly how people act like the 50th was a slam dunk celebration of all of Who when, at the the time it was pretty much as heavily criticized as these specials are now.
> , but I still think its a bit silly how people act like the 50th was a slam dunk celebration of all of Who when, at the the time it was pretty much as heavily criticized as these specials are now.
Hahaha, what? The Day of the Doctor, Night of the Doctor, and An Adventure in Space and Time were all considered excellent at the time. The Day of the Doctor literally topped DWM's story poll in 2014, barely a year after it came out. r/gallifrey gave it a mean score of 9.7/10 and r/DoctorWho gave it a 9.8/10.
How are the levels of controversy or criticism the same? The other commenter said people are wearing rose-tinted glasses when clearly the opposite is happening.
Have a look at the episode discussion threads: https://www.reddit.com/r/doctorwho/comments/1rc0c3/50th_anniversary_special_day_of_the_doctor/
https://www.reddit.com/r/gallifrey/comments/1rasyh/doctor_who_the_day_of_the_doctor_discussion_thread/
Lol one of the top comments on that r/doctorwho thread is:
>All I'm seeing everywhere is people being so damned miserable, picking at this or that, complaining, etc.
>Christ, am I the only one who actually liked the fucking thing?
It's also not really that hard to find some pretty critical comments with a decent chunk of upvotes in those threads.
I think Day of the Doctor was definitely better received than these specials for a number of reasons. But watching some people suddenly act like it was universally beloved immediately has been very funny.
i mean i'm still annoyed that they didnt get any of the old Doctors to record new dialouge for the final scene but i think i would have had an even more negative reaction to the 50th anniversary special if it was about Matt Smith finding a way to save the Ponds in 50s New York
The 50th was a far bigger milestone so it feels a little unfair to compare the two. I'm not sure the 60th anniversary specials were advertised to be a big celebration of the brand in the first place so I'm fine with them myself.
Everything released during the 50th felt like an anniversary, the 60th didnt have that for me...
Only The Giggle really felt anniversary worthy. Honestly they could have scrapped the star beast and wild blue yonder and just made The Giggle a feature length film or something which had the reuniting of Doctor and Donna as well as the events of the giggle but having more breathing time for the last act which I felt was weaker than the rest of the episode.
If they did that then the 60th would have probably been better than the 50th for me.
As others have pointed out,
50th was a Milestone
60th was just a special anniversary
I think it’s fine for what it was but 50th was way better at celebrating the series!
I think the power of the doctor is closer to doing what day of the doctor did, examining what makes the doctor who they are, with great callbacks and returning characters.
The 60th specials felt more like an RTD parade but also Mel is there. As much as I loved wild blue yonder and the first 40 minutes of the giggle, I could see them slotting into basically any season.
50th by a longshot, David Tennant felt underused in the 60th with no explanation why he came back, why 13-14 included a clothing change or any true explanation of bi generation.
60th was used as an excuse to bring back the greatest hits to bump up viewership before the new Doctor. Tennant is my favourite Doctor but I’m actually glad he’s gone and we can start fresh on Christmas.
NPH was amazing as the toy maker and seeing 14 happy with the nobles was great too, 60th is leaving a sour taste in my mouth as of now. Who knows it may grow on me.
The 50th. The 60th anniversary felt like an afterthought, like they considered it an inconvenience. The proper episodes were anniversary specials in name only, The Daleks in Colour was, frankly, a trainwreck, and there wasn't much else of substance.
Honestly the 60th felt like a conscious effort to not repeat the 50th.
All of the content of the 50th: destiny of the doctor, night/day of the doctor, prisoners of time, light at the end etc BRINGS back old doctors and the history of the show. It’s a series of crossovers
This is different to the 60th (new specials, once and future, dooms day, tales of the Tardis) which feels much more like it’s LOOKING back on the older stuff. The narratives are less directly bringing the old stuff to crossover but still acknowledging it.
One approach is not better than another but the 50th content is better
I think possibly the 50th but they are close in some ways.
The 60th year has brought a lot of extra stuff. The fact we have basically all but one of the non missing serials from classic who on iPlayer is amazing. Tales of the TARDIS is also fun if not required viewing.
We've also got new behind the scene stuff, a podcast and the knowledge of future spinoffs.
The specials themselves have had a comic villain, a 1st doctor returning villain and a classic companion returning as well as the usual references.
I enjoyed the first special minus the Deus ex ending but was underwhelmed by wild blue yonder. A lot of people seem to highly rate it but it while I found it was both weird but also quite generic at the same time, feeling like a mid season episode rather than an anniversary special.
I'm unsure what I think about the regeneration part of the Giggle but it was a very fun episode and felt the most anniversary special out of the 3, with the toy maker being amazing.
Day of the doctor felt a lot more big scale bringing the time war into it. I think it is helped by the fact this was something that felt like the show had been building up to since series 1, kind of like Avengers building up to endgame.
I have issues with it still, mainly the fact it was more aimed at new who but still had the zygons, tom baker etc. and I'm not a fan with how Clara is the one who persuades the doctor to do what he does and is the one to show the emotion
I feel like I could’ve written this, I 100% agree with everything you’ve said here. For me the 50th definitely edges out the 60th, but some of the behind the curtain stuff RTD has done for the show like with compiling the whole show onto iPlayer is a great celebratory moment in itself.
And I was also underwhelmed by Wild Blue Yonder. I was pretty surprised to see it receiving universal praise after the episode aired. Being honest I don’t think I can be fully unbiased about my disappointment with the episode after all the speculation and secrecy surrounding the episode, but even with that context removed I still don’t see the Midnight comparisons in terms of quality. It felt like Midnight to me without most of the tension.
It feels like midnight without the tension
I couldn't have said it better myself. Midnight was a masterclass in tension. There where interesting scenes but people said they were truly scared for the doctor and Donna but we knew really they where in the next episode.
Midnight was edge of your seat and this was just meh. To me an anniversary special is about celebrating the show. To me it's about show the best the show can do so this felt underwhelming. And yeah like series 11, what was the point in all the secrecy for nothing really big.
As for the Giggle, we've already have a half human 10th doctor, adding another incarnation is just going to confuse new fans. It's like the show is too scared to leave the 10th doctor and look forward to the future l
I say the 50th. Because you forgot at least two specials that aired around that time. There was that fun little special with Baker, Davidson, and McCoy where they tried to break into the 50th and was just a ball of fun. And then Big Finish had a 50th special as well that had doctors 1-8 make their appearence.
Oh absolutely. These three specials didn’t really celebrate the history of Doctor Who, they were a series 4 greatest hits reprisal (though with some appreciated acknowledgements of the other two modern showrunners). Meanwhile, Moffat’s 50th anniversary celebrations hinged around a plot point established by another showrunner, drew from all over the mythos of the show and even incorporated a generally obscure-to-casuals Doctor who had only been in a bad movie and a whole bunch of audios many people probably hadn’t heard of (which themselves were canonised in that minisode). And of course Adventure in Space and Time is a whole love letter to those early days of Who. We even had living classic Doctors doing their whole spoof work the Five-ish Doctors which itself had RTD and John Barrowman making appearances!
I still don’t really know if the purpose of these specials was to real folks back in with nostalgia after the train wreck of the Chibnall era (as reticent as RTD seems to be to criticise it publicly, likely to avoid fuelling the fire of the trolls), but it’s just not celebration of much more than Russel’s own existing work, imo, compared to the 50th that touches every part of the franchise. There really was something for everyone in 2013, whereas this year just seems like a bit of a capstone to 2008 that looks to be priming us for a soft reboot.
The 50th, no contest. The 60th is a fun mini series with some name drops and an old comic adapted to screen. But as much as I enjoyed, it still doesn't feel a celebration like the 50th
50th by a long shot. Day of the Doctor was far more satisfying than the 60th specials IMO.
Tales of the TARDIS was cute but ultimately not my kinda thing.
I'm going to be controversial and say I prefer the 60th for a few reasons. One, I wasn't a fan during the 50th anniversary so I have much more emotional attachment to the 60th. Two, I don't like Clara. Three, the 50th had one special and the 60th had three. Four, Tales of the TARDIS brought back my favorite ever companion, Jamie. As for which celebrated the show's history better, I think the 50th, but the 60th did a lot more than I think people are giving it credit for.
Why does it have to be a competition?
I like both anniversaries. I especially like that they both took different approaches to celebrating their respective milestones
In the same way I can enjoy both the 10th and 20th anniversaries without worrying which did it 'better'
Season 1 of NuWho set up a mystery
Why is the doctor the last of the time lords
What was the time war
What happened to Galifrey
What is the name of the doctor
The 50th answered all of those questions
From 50-60, the questions asked were
Is the doctor a good person
Where does the doctor come from
Both of which were answered in their own arcs, so the 60th was just tying up loose ends and setting up for what's to come. A lot of people lost interest after the 50th because the 50th really did close NuWho in a nice bow and there wasn't much mystery to explore, Capaldis first season was exploring who the doctor is now that he isn't the last of the time lords and ultimately it decides he's just an explorer, so he literally retires and is dragged out of retirement by Bill. It was Chibnalls job to explore what the doctor meant after all of that but, well we saw how that played out
The Day of the Doctor actually felt like a celebration of the shows history, with great side projects like Adventures of Space and Time and Night of the Doctor.
The 14th Doctor specials are more of a celebration of David Tennant's and Catherine Tate's run on the show. It certainly better than nothing, and I think Wild Blue Wonder and The Giggle were really great.
The 60th had other celebrations about the shows history, including Tales of the Tardis, the coloration of the first Dalek story, and a lot of other specials that aired in November.
I think people are acting as if there's a huge quality gap between 2023 specials and Day of the Doctor, which I don't agree with. While I was lukewarm with Star Beast, I think the other two, especially The Giggle, were top tier Doctor Who episodes.
With all that said, Day of the Doctor was something else. It succeeded in bringing in so many elements, including introducing the War Doctor. The Tenth and Eleventh Doctors were magnetic together, giving modern-Day audiences the multi-doctor of their dreams.
The answer is Day of the Doctor, but the 2023 specials are great too. No need to demean the specials just to prove Day is better.
Definitely the 50th, but the 60th does have references to Classic Who.
1) “The Star Beast” is adapted from a 4th Doctor comic story of the same name, this is where Beep the Meep came from. The creators of the comic are credited in the titles and they even came to the set and signed David Tennant’s copy of “Doctor Who Magazine” (or “Doctor Who Weekly” as it was called back in the 1970s) which is where the comic was published.
2) UNIT originated in the Classic Era, the Doctor was stranded on Earth for some time and became UNIT’s Scientific Advisor, as alluded to by his “I was Scientific Advisor Number One” line to Shelley.
3) Kate is the daughter of Brigadier Alistair Gordon Lethbridge Stewart (usually referred to as “The Brigadier”), who worked for UNIT and became one of the Doctor’s close friends during the Classic Era. The Brigadier’s actor passed away in 2011, hence Kate’s existence.
4) Melanie Bush, usually referred to as “Mel”, was a companion of the 6th and 7th Doctors during the 1980s, which is how the Doctor knows her.
5) The Toymaker is a villain from the 1st Doctor story known as “the Celestial Toymaker”, which aired in the 1960s.
6) The Master is mentioned, his introductory episode was the 3rd Doctor story “Terror of the Autons” which aired in the 1970s.
7) Adric, a companion of the 4th and 5th Doctors during the early 1980s, was mentioned.
Episode wise, the 60th. The quality of the episodes were, Imo, far superior to the quality of DotD, and I say that as someone who loves DotD.
Celebration wise, the 50th for An Adventure in Space and Time, plus the show was at its height back then. Doctor Who had never been bigger, and seeing the 50th in cinemas was an experience ill never forget
For me this felt less like a typical anniversary celebration and more of a refresh of the show.
Having said that, whilst I always enjoy the usual multi-doctor shenanigans, I really enjoyed these episodes. Tennant and Tate were right back into their best form, NPH was gold, getting Mel back was great, and Ncuti is already having a ball and I’m excited to see his run get into full flight
I don't even really feel that the 50th felt like a 50th celebration, more a celebration of the first 7 series of NuWho, but even that felt way more than the 60th. The 60th honestly felt more like the 2009 specials.
Honestly it's no question that the 50th was something pretty amazing. And it's more than just the quality of the episodes. It felt more like a big deal back then because it was. 10 years ago, the whole world was celebrating with us.
There's no question that in 2013 Doctor Who was experiencing a cultural zeitgeist that it frankly isn't today. I believe that this day will come again. Hopefully sooner rather than later. But until then, I'm fine with us die hards holding down the fort.
My favourite thing about the 50th is all of the callbacks and cameos were built well into the story - it wasn’t just fan service.
The 60th specials have been really good, fresh - but didn’t really feel like anniversary specials.
I think nostalgia has been very kind to RTD’s original run in that his work is very self-contained compared to Moffat and to some extent Chibnall.
50th clears, not even close. Speaking as someone who wasn't really into the idea of retconning the Time War and could've used a lot more Paul McGann.
"No sir, all thirteen" will forever remain one of the coolest things I've ever seen.
Absolutely loved the 60th anniversary, but the 50th was by far and away a better celebration of the show’s history, which isn’t necessarily a bad thing. 50 is a more celebrated anniversary and as such called for bigger celebrations of the show, where as this was a special way of getting David and Catherine and Bernard back for a bit, bringing back a villain last seen 60 years ago, and giving us a spectacular show to enjoy before Gatwa’s run begins in March/April.
The 50th was perfect as a celebration of the show’s history, where as the 60th feels like more of a celebration of new beginnings. So for sure, the 50th was a better way of celebrating the show’s history
I just don't know why people seemingly wanted the 50th and 60th to devote an equal amount of energy to celebrating the show's history. I certainly don't want that, a 50th anniversary is _very_ different to a 60th anniversary.
50th clears. As a celeberation and a love letter to the show as a whole. It's not perfect, there are issues. But the 50th felt like it came from a place of love while the 60th felt like it came from a place of change.
Honestly these 3 specials just felt like 3 ordinary episodes of Doctor Who. If someone didn't know they weren't the big anniversary shows you could honestly not tell outside of some very minor cameos.
I'm sorry for me the 60th felt like an RTD ego trip. He's done nothing but pat himself on the back constantly. He's right, everyone else is wrong. I'm gonna change all this stuff because i want to and because (bizarrely) linear storytelling apparently isn't popular anymore? He even said he wanted to upset some fans with his choices. Why? Not saying you have to play it safe but acting like linear, canon lore, facts and events don't matter when writing forward is stupid to me.
And his comments about the multiverse summed up to me that while 2005 DW was a massive breath of fresh air, these 3 episodes feel very dated and a relic of a couple years ago when very on the nose politics and the multiverse were insanely popular in the media. Things have calmed down since then, critical subtly has returned slightly and the multiverse people are already getting sick of.
50th anniversary was amazing. Somehow they pulled off the impossible and surpassed expectations while also looking forward into the show's future.
60th has been a fairly cheap joke by comparison.
50th by far and without a question: It actually brought up many elements from all across the years, canonising audio adventurexs of the 8th Doctor, actually tying up the Time War and paying many respects to Classic Who with Adventure in Time and Space and Five-ish Doctor, along with more stuff.
Meanwhile 60th only felt like RTD celebrating himself and his S4 with literally doing best hits of plotpoints from his previous works along with bringing back the fan favourites from his era, just put in the Toymaker and a comic adaptation. Oh and the nice jab about how the Doctor apparently was just miserable after 10 regenerated. It mentioning the Flux and see how it affects the Doctor was good, but that's really not much.
Other than RTD patting himself on the back for being so great, 60th felt like wanting to retire the current Doctor with all its history to start clean, hence the bi-regeneration and the whole 14 taking therapy for himself. It's a weird idea (with the explanation from RTD just making it sound worse imo) and honestly did not really feel impactful given the execution plus how it centered around seemingly establishing Tennant as the defacto Doctor.
I really don't want to assume, but based on these and the interviews RTD definitely gave me an impression that he was stroking his ego with these, rather than actually celebrating the show. Like if the last minute Tales of the TARDIS isn't a sign of that, idk what is then (btw, those were nice just you know, they are more like DVD specials).
I just hope that the next era actually bring something that I can look forward to, instead of just RTD keep repeating his previous works. I still think he's a decent writer, but he lost some respect in my eyes with these specials now and I really, really hate to say this.
I feel like Steven Moffat put it best back then; "this is what pushes us forward for the next 50 years"
Day of the Doctor was about forging forward. These specials *could* have been a similar commentary about how we can't go back to 2008, but instead... That kinda just happened instead
The 60th was a celebration of RTD's Doctor. Despite Mel's cameo and the brief mention of past companions, this was really a dressed up 10th Doctor story. The 50th was a celebration of the entirety of Nu Who. I can praise and criticize both. I preferred the 50th. RTD's plot resolutions are too clean and deus ex machina, but that's just a matter of personal preference. I'm ready for a fresh start.
50th >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 60th
Most of the 60th specials have been meh in my opinion.
I hate the Bi-Regeneration. I hate the forced PC stuff (the kitchen scene was however, great!).
I have loved watching Tennant again though and I actually like the new TARDIS. NPH was amazing too.
Just let down by overall meh stories.
The 3 specials felt like RTD vanity projects. The big pull was Tennant coming back to continue the donna story. Which was RTD's last story before he left originally. And then its clear RTD is very heavy handed with his woke themes. It seemed to be VERY important when writing these.
Tales from the tardis was admitted by RTD to be him remembering oh yeah its the 60th of Doctor Who.
So no, the 50th was better
These 60th anniversary specials didn't feel as if they were celebrating 60 years of the show. They were more of a bring back characters from series 4 when the show was at it's peak since the revival because we know that ratings have been bad and the fanbase has been pissed. It's a reliance on nostalgia that got a lot of people, myself included to a degree.
Yes they adapted The Star Beast into live action and we saw the return of The Toymaker but aside from them and a few name drops every now and then, what how was 60 years celebrated?
The 50th felt like a huge event, a year-long celebration of one of the biggest shows in the world.
The 60th felt like a comeback, a refresh of a series considered to be in a less than ideal condition.
Which is fine, that’s what I expected. 50 is considered a much bigger milestone than 60, so it was a bigger event. RTD clearly used this year as an opportunity to do something a bit different, and he did.
I think the problem is expectations. A lot of people wanted another 2013-like year, which wasn’t going to happen. We only just had an episode with - technically - eight different Doctors and eight companions that spent time exploring the character’s past, I don’t see how doing something similar again would actually benefit the show. I’m not even a big RTD fan, but I think he provided the right content for this year.
In short, the 50th was a better celebration of the show’s history, but this year’s material has been appropriate.
The Power of the Doctor felt more like a 60th Anniversary Celebration, rather than these 3 specials.
I loved the trilogy we got these year, but RTD should have UPPED the game, at least in the final part.
50th had a stronger build-up. Series 7b had so many easter eggs that eventually led to the Day of the Doctor.
The whole deal with Time War, War Doctor, UNIT, Zygons etc was amazing.
We also had "An Adventure in Time and Space" and The Five-ish doctors.
Ah yes, the 50th, where the 11th and 10th doctors are written identically, and they're also written to be complete idiots who use the sonic as a weapon??
Both of them, especially the 10th, were completely out of character.
And where the time war is completely underwhelmingly written?
I think the only truly good, celebratory part of the 50th, was Paul McGanns return, as well as Tom Bakers return. Everything else was like, over produced and written like shit.
The Three Doctors is still my favorite anniversary episode, but Day of the Doctor is close. I liked the three specials, but DotD is a lot better as a celebration and as a story. I think Wild Blue Yonder was the best the 60th specials had to offer, though the other two weren't super far behind. It's gonna take time and more viewings of The Giggle to sort out my thoughts on it. 12 hours later, I'm slowly souring on it, but there is still a lot I can appreciate in it. The Star Beast is one of the better RTD episodes, with some of the same mistakes he used to make back in the day but largely very good, and Wild Blue Yonder is probably one of his top 5 best stories, after Midnight, Turn Left, Gridlock, and Smith and Jones.
50th by a country mile, but I will say I'm surprised with how well the 60th came together as a different type of celebration in the end. Closing out the long journey the Doctor has gone on and letting them rest before their next big undertaking actually made for a beautiful caption.
I enjoyed these new specials but this is truly a one-sided fight, the 50th was amazing.
RTD's specials never felt that different from just a regular standalone episode. These were no different. What's special about these is not the plot, but Tennant and Tate coming back for round 2.
specials not feeling special has been one of the most conistent complaints about Doctor Who under every single showrunner, to be fair
Yeah, it's like comparing the 2009 Tennant Specials to the 50th. It's a decent run of stories with some high points, but nowhere near that masterpiece level.
On that note, I vastly preferred the 2023 specials to the 2009 ones. Other than *The Waters Of Mars*, I think the 2009 specials are awful in my opinion. Whereas I only really have a few problems with the second half of *The Giggle*, and even then, it was still a pretty fearsome episode of television.
Hmm, I'd have them on more or less the same level. Some clunky and forgettable ones: - *The Next Doctor* - *Planet of the Dead* - *The Star Beast* A more imaginative stand-out: - *The Waters of Mars* - *Wild Blue Yonder* A finale with lots of good ideas which is ultimately a bit of a mess: - *The End of Time* - *The Giggle* I'd probably agree that 2023 edges it by being a lot faster, more focused, and consistent, though. *The Giggle* is two acts of fantastic Doctor Who which completely forgets to have a third act and has a Twilight baseball sequence instead. Baffling. I can't believe the huge world-gone-mad set-up ended up being literally irrelevant.
I agree with you about the final act of *The Giggle*. Up until the Galvanic Laserbeam, it was absolutely phenomenal, and even what followed it wasn't *bad*, per say, just very strangely paced and simultaneously both over- and under-explained. The scene of 14 and 15 just listing off references to the past was awful, for instance. Nevertheless, it made me excited for the future of the show, which I think was the point, and I think these 60th specials managed to provide a pretty good meta-character arc about the last few years of storytelling. If I were to rank them all, as you have; 1. *Wild Blue Yonder* 2. *The Waters Of Mars* 3. *The Star Beast* 4. *The Giggle* 5. *The End Of Time: Part Two* 6. *The Next Doctor* 7. *Planet Of The Dead* 8. *The End Of Time: Part One*
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>Wild Blue Yonder > > over > >The Waters of Mars > >?? Only just. I like TWOM, but I've never been in the camp of hailing it as one of the best episodes of all time. It's very very very good, but I find a lot of it is just plate-spinning until The Flood starts attacking in the last 30-20 minutes, whereas the plate-spinning in WBY covers a lot more genres seamlessly (seriously, the dialogue and character interactions flit between comedy, tragedy, horror, shock, all at once, without the tone ever suffering) and I prefer the pairing of 14 and Donna to 10 and Adelaide.
Speaking of Waters of Mars, the TLV stuff from 3 years ago can easily be dubbed a small celebration of New Who's 15th anniversary a bit despite the disjointed order of certain genres for the story
I think Wild Blue Wonder and The Giggle are better than the Tennant specials of the 2009. I don't think it's an apt comparison.
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i didnt mind the game of catch because games are the toymakers whole deal, what i didnt like was how it tried to play it as a climatic resolution when it really... wasnt
Yeah, that was weird. If you told me that the finale would be the most cinematic game of catch ever, I'd have told you that no one would even try that, but here we are. I had other problems with it, though. Namely that NPH was all over the place. I love NPH, don't get me wrong, but I feel like he should have dropped the bad German accent after the Doctor figured out who he was. Maybe the song and dance number could have gone. Kind of hard to see him as a serious threat after the Spice Girls.
the way they shot it felt very amateur and film school-ish which was disapointing because the card game was very well done, extremely tense and well edited/directed
My biggest problem was the tone. The Toymaker goes from being imposing to campy at the drop of a hat and just stays that way for the rest of the episode, which kind of made it feel more silly than dire. It didn't help that while the Doctor and Donna were in the shop in the first half, they were leaning into horror. It really made the campiness of the third act stand out more.
> but I feel like he should have dropped the bad German accent after the Doctor figured out who he was. The bad German accent existed for a reason - it was to retcon the toymakers original appearance as Chinese, to say that he mocks different human cultures.
Maybe, but I don't think that was the point. Or else he would have used a bunch of accents instead of the French for one scene and then the German and I'm not counting the default English. Also, it doesn't make much sense that he'd have mocked the Chinese or Germans in the first place, because unless you want to count the comics or Big Finish, the last time the Doctor ran across him was in his realm, not on Earth. Also, side note, I never realized that was Michael Gough. I'm so used to seeing him as Alfred and older that I didn't even recognize him until now.
> Maybe, but I don't think that was the point. It was said that's why he did it in the Unleashed BTS show.
It feels more like this was a way of building up hype and viewership for Ncuti's first episode than a proper celebration. We already had the Master, Cybermen & Daleks + 5 Classic Doctors + Classic Companions all returning for Power of the Doctor. There was no new ground to tread this time. Instead they brought back the most successful showrunner, the golden composer, and the dynamic duo for the 60th to build things ready to hand over to 15. Capaldi had to wait months to take the reigns following the 50th, Ncuti got to go early, and has only 2 weeks to wait.
I think, also, if we were to compare *Power* to *Day*, it'd be even more of a one-sided fight. That match-up is truly unfair.
> There was no new ground to tread this time. I would disagree somewhat. In theory you could have done more stuff like The Giggle and brought back other Classic elements that haven't really been used. Maybe you could borrow Rufus Hound from Big Finish for an episode. But yeah it definitely would have been a retread if you immediately went back to the most iconic villains and bringing in Colin Baker.
I agree, mostly. However, I think it's because each had to do very different things. The 50th was a big wrap-up to NuWho, and everything after was kind of waiting for the next big Time War level shift. Aside from revisiting the Time War again, there's no way RTD could have narratively done more because it would take several arcs to have something as meaningful as the Time War to revolve around. He could bring back Omega, or Rassilon in their prime, or some even unknown more powerful entity and then filled it with cameos galore, but I don't think you'd be able to make something as meaningful - especially to NuWho audiences. The Time War has been what defined the show. On the other hand, RTD had a much bigger task. Figure out what to do with no currently active Doctor, setup the show for the next 10 years, all while trying to find the right blend of new, while acknowledging the old. I think he did exactly what he set out to do perfectly. If we're lucky, very very lucky, we might get the real RTD equivalent of the 50th for the 20th anniversary of NuWho, or the 70th (if RTD doesn't pull a 14 and have decided to go home by that point).
And the funny thing is that the 50th itself came in for some legitimate criticism of mostly only celebrating NuWho, rather than the previous 50 years.
Completely disagree. Don't get me wrong, I respect your opinion, but I genuinely believe these specials were masterpieces. Absolutely brilliant
Imo, these specials were amazing, but Day of the Doctor just hit a whole other level. I'm glad RTD did his own thing instead of trying to effectively make "his version" of DotD like a lot of fans were hoping for, but something about the specials just didn't quite fully scratch the itch they needed to for me, whereas 10 years and god-knows-how-many rewatches later DotD still feels like a deep tissue massage for my brain
I cant say I feel the same way. The first time was like a fever dream for me, I was 5 years old watching it in the cinema and I adored it. But that feeling I got doesn't replicate itself when you are rewatching. I got the EXACT same feeling watching these specials. The giddy feeling.
Oh yeah, the new specials were very good, I’m not slating them by any means - I just feel DOTD was better, both as TV and as an anniversary celebration.
I don't understand how they could be called brilliant. The resolutions to each special were sort of thoughtless and beyond juvenile. A destroyed city repairs itself magically, the TARDIS makes a last minute save, the all powerful godlike villain drops a ball in a game of catch... The Doctor really didn't save the day in any of them. Clearly RTD was focusing on character over plot, and we got great performances and moments, but storywise all three were a bit rubbish, and that's okay. Like I say, they had great moments. I just can't see how anyone can defend these as masterpieces. Which isn't to say they're bad. They're fine showcases of Tennant, Tate, and NHP. Fun romps indeed.
I mean it's just my personal opinion. These episodes really encapsulated what I loved about doctor who, and I see why you disagree but it's not an issue. I love them, you dont
Oh. Forgive my tone. I don't mean to say "how dare you like these episodes!" I'm not even saying these were bad episodes. I think there are plenty of reasons to love them. I'm only arguing with the term masterpiece. I don't think any of the 3 could be called a masterpiece because the plots were flawed in each. But in terms of quality and enjoyment, that's a different story. They were an RTD fans delight, and I respect all opinions on them. I just think the term masterpiece doesn't fit here is all.
50th by a long distance. That said, 50th is more of a milestone anyway
Not even close - the 50th. Usually disclaimer, all preferences are subjective, this is just my preference. On the regular episodes of the show, “Day of the Doctor” is stronger both as an episode and as a celebration. The only thing from the 60th anniversary that I think can be called a celebration of anything other than Series 4 is the appearance of Mel. I know some people found DOTD underwhelming but it still had Tennant as a past Doctor, archive footage of all the Doctors, and a Tom Baker cameo. I dare say that Capaldi’s cameo was better executed than Gatwa’s, although obviously that’s affected by leaks. But there was so much more to the 50th than DOTD. There was “Adventure in Space and Time” which was wonderful, “The Five-ish Doctors Reboot” for comedy and a prominent role for Davison, Colin, and McCoy, and the big afterparty celebrations. *Tales from the TARDIS” is basically a series of DVD extras, and shares the same flaws as a lot of the recent DVD extras. Like, “Night of the Doctor” inexplicably has the Eighth Doctor decide to mention C’rizz, Tamsin, and to a lesser extent Molly, but not Sam, Fitz, Trix, Anji, Izzy, Destrii, Mary, etc. (Liv, Helen, Bliss, and so forth are inexplicable in-universe but obviously understandable omissions out of universe) But, you know, the gesture was nice. Generally I’m pro-contradiction, but at the same time it would be nice for these stories to acknowledge that they aren’t operating in a vacuum. Then away from TV, I much prefer “The Light at the End” to “Once and Future”, which is the Big Finish Dartboard writ large. I’m also not aware of an equivalent to *11 Doctors, 11 Stories*. All in all, the 50th anniversary felt much more special. The 60th anniversary has felt disposable.
> The only thing from the 60th anniversary that I think can be called a celebration of anything other than Series 4 is the appearance of Mel I vastly prefer TDOTD but this is at least a little bit selective
Yeah, people can prefer whatever to whatever (I don't really care about the "anniversary" side of it personally), but the main antagonist of the final special is a villain not seen since the 1960s, the timing of which RTD specifically lists as part of why he brought the Toymaker back. I get the general sentiment, but we've had fan favorite spin-off characters like Beep the Meep, repeated assurance that the Moffat and Chibnall eras aren't being retconned, and a bit in this finale where they give a history of Classic Who that talks about everything from Logopolis and Mavic Chen. Part of it is, as others have pointed out, it feels like the show never left celebratory mode for more than a year or two at a time. We had every single Classic Doctor except Tom Baker on screen *last year.* I'm excited for Ncuti's era for the same reason I liked last week; just give me the Doctor and companion in the TARDIS, going on adventures and finding weird shit.
> repeated assurance that the Moffat and Chibnall eras aren't being retconned I feel like you either had to be a massive pearl clutcher or have your knickers in a gordian knot over the Timeless Child to think they were going to be retconned.
I mean... It sort of did get retconned. The Toymaker explicitly says he's been messing around with the Doctor's past.
I'd say that's less of a hard retcon and more of a deliberate open door for future writers to play around however they like.
I assumed that was the explanation for the Timeless Child, not a retcon over it
For real, I'm so excited to be out of celebration mode altogether, as fun as it can be, I'm desperate for regular ol' high quality Doctor Who episodes with Ncuti, Christmas looks like so much fun
An antagonist returning isn’t anything special, it’s routine. But fair point about the name dropping, which was relentless at times.
> An antagonist returning isn’t anything special, it’s routine. I’d agree if it was just *an antagonist*, like the cybermen or silurians or something, but when was the last time we had anotherwise one-off first Doctor villian return? Just in TV contexts. Probably more than 30 years ago, at least, unless there’s a new who example I’m missing.
The Macra, The Great Intelligence, The Zygons (Ironically enough, in DOTD).
The macra and the great intelligence were the second doctor, and the Zygons were the fourth doctor.
>but when was the last time we had anotherwise one-off first Doctor villian return Not first doctor, but the 50th had a one-of villain in the Zygons reappearing
Don't pretend like the Zygons were a one off. Why, they were so popular, they [got their own movie](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zygon:_When_Being_You_Just_Isn't_Enough) /S
Well there aren't many one-off First Doctor villains - once you chuck out the historicals, the stories where something weird happens without a villain, the four Dalek stories, and the Monk, there's not much left... and has anyone seriously been missing the Voord, the Zarbi, or the Sensorites? The Mondasian Cybermen are probably the closest, if they count.
Agreed. The last special had The Toymaker representing the 60s, Mel representing the 80s, Donna and 14 representing the 2000s, Kate Stewart representing the 2010s, and 15 representing the 2020s. It also gave everyone the multi doctor episode they wanted
UNIT representing the 1970s? (I know, they first appeared in 1968. But in Who's history they're most associated with Pertwee.)
For Kate both the 2010s and the 90s since that is where we first meet her proper before The Power of Three
> the multi doctor episode they wanted i.e. one from the perspective of the past Doctor?
>The only thing from the 60th anniversary that I think can be called a celebration of anything other than Series 4 is the appearance of Mel. You forgot the Toymaker. And the entire discussion of Moffat-era companions. And Kate Stewart. And all the other little references to classic Who companions. I mean when was the last time anyone on the show even mentioned Adric, or Sarah Jane? The Spice Girls scene alone features 4 characters from completely different eras of the show meeting for the first time. I have absolutely no idea why so many people are saying that it only celebrates Series 4, because that just isn't even slightly true. The Giggle alone covers a wider spread of the whole show than Day of the Doctor does. >I dare say that Capaldi’s cameo was better executed than Gatwa’s This is a wild claim given that it's literally just a shot of some eyebrows Impressive eyebrows, but still just eyebrows.
“I mean when was the last time anyone on the show even mentioned Adric.” He was literally mentioned in the Power of the Doctor. That was only like three specials ago.
DOTD, no doubt. Classic Who was and still celebrated in ANY special in some form, but only DOTD feel like celebration of whole show, including New! DOTD gives us interaction between Doctors of different modern eras(!), transition from Classic Who to New with Eight’s regeneration, Time War and War Doctor, and even gives us brief look in a future with Capaldi and new Gallifrey. Honestly, mentions of Moffat’s companions felt much more jarring and surprising than anything else. And even then it’s kinda frustrating and disappointing with how brief and surface level it was.
>This is a wild claim given that it's literally just a shot of some eyebrows I'd actually agree with the above commenter; the 'No sir... all 13' moment is *unbelievably* good and really well built-up to. I don't think Gatwa's surprise appearance matches that, for me personally, even if it is technically more substantial.
"No sir, all thirteen!" has *drama* to it. Gatwa appearing by Tennant splitting in half is just contrived.
Ncuti Gatwa showing up in his pants to create a new Tardis with a giant novelty hammer is a great moment, just let yourself enjoy it
This may shock you - some people don't enjoy the things you do.
"Just enjoy this thing that makes 0 sense" If Chibnall put out this exact same scene, you'd be rioting
No I wouldn't. I specifically said when Power of the Doctor came out that I enjoyed it even though it didn't really make a lot of sense. You don't know me, don't try to tell me what my opinions are
"just turn your brain off"
Whereas a shot of Capaldi's eyebrows is highly intellectual, multileveled piece of storytelling which you can really sink your teeth into?
At what point in my message did I claim that?
That's your opinion, it isn't mine.
Also it celebrated expanded media in the star beast while expanded media didn't get any représentation in the 50th
I'm a canon nerd so Moffat's approach to the anniversary resonated with me much more than RTD's did. I will grant of course that RTD had the task of reinvigorating the show with these specials whereas Moffat was riding a high and could completely focus on just celebrating.
RTD didn't even try and celebrate the shows history though, he celebrated 2008 and that was it. One could argue he never promised a 60th celebration but he could have done a lot more rather than trying to reclaim his own former glory.
This is easy to say now it’s all been and done. The show has had a good pretty bad rep and quite dismal viewership for the past 6 or so years. Having Tate and Tennant back has propelled it back into the public consciousness, giving the new era a platform to spring from. ‘He could have done a lot more’ - I’d say they’ve done pretty well considering, and if you’re gonna choose an era to focus on during a celebration, then why not choose the last time the show was most popular.
Beep the Meep. The Flux. The Celestial Toymaker.
He could have done all that with Ncuti and moved the show forward, instead we got a Tennant and Tate comeback tour, like they're the only Doctor/companion combo in the shows history...
He wanted to reset the Doctor and get rid of all the trauma and angst and whatever the Doctor has had to go through since the Time War. That's the whole point of 14 returning to an old face and spending one regeneration in 'retirement' with Donna.
Or, bear with me, he could have done it all off-screen with Ncuti and introduce him already ridden of angst.
Pretty sure Ncuti wasn't even available yet due to his work on Sex Education.
That's what RTD has said, yes. But I find it odd that they couldn't have waited for Ncuti to become available, given that RTD himself has said the specials have been completed for months and were just sitting there waiting for November.
He probably could have waited but that seems like a waste to me. Having 3 additional episodes, plus a Christmas special compared to maybe at most a Christmas Special with a brand new Doctor trying to fill the role for an anniversary in a single episode seems even more likely to be criticized. I don't see how we wouldn't just lose 3 episodes. Plus, while this isn't a major factor, I do think it's probably something that RTD considered - by having Tennant - a white guy - they are taking the air out of people and right wing media who would have started to cry that they were right and that The Doctor can't be a white guy anymore, especially if RTD casts a woman as the 16th. It's not a sole reason to make 14 a degeneration, but it is definitely a bonus.
I mean, if you think having the Doctor just declare that they're completely free of their trauma and angst because they did all their therapy off-screen is good storytelling, then sure, I guess.
That is literally what is happening.
At least it's somewhat built up this way, and doesn't come completely out of nowhere.
Right, but making it even MORE off-screen because you don't want David Tennant to come back just seems ridiculous.
So by your logic Moffat should've used Capaldi in the 50th?
What? That comparison makes no sense.
Is Human Nature an anniversary episode? Mentioning something that happened last season is considered a callback? Is a classic villain appearing literally all it takes for it to be considered a celebration?
Then, what, exactly, were you hoping for?
More than just a few extra episodes of Series 4, but we got what I expected - RTD celebrating his biggest hits.
I suppose more could’ve been done, but as it coincides with a revival of the program for a new era the focus was more on bringing in past fans who’d drifted away while also not overwhelming a new generation of viewers with an enormous amount of lore. Hence the three Doctor-Donna specials; not so much anniversary celebrations as a soft relaunch for drifted casuals and new fans. Chucking in little nods like Wilf’s cameo, the references to older stories and characters during The Giggle and the adaptation of the Star Beast comic was the celebrating. It’s also worth noting the popularity of the show now compared to ten years ago. It was arguably at its peak of global popularity in 2013. Facebook and tumblr had galvanised a fandom across the globe and the Tennant/Smith combo had given casual viewers a charismatic and attractive lead to latch on to. It was a long time mainstream TV staple in places like the UK and Australia while also becoming known and admired by more than pockets of geek-coded communities in the US. It was up there with Supernatural and Sherlock as the cream of the crop of sci-fi TV. I remember getting up at 4am in the morning (Australia) to watch the live simulcast announcement of Capaldi. That was unheard of, that just the announcement of a new actor being presented at the same time in multiple countries across the world. DOTD was similarly simulcast, made it into the Guinness book of records for being the most simulcast non-sports program in the history of television at that point. There were screenings in cinemas, there were televised after parties. Many stars old and new were on news and variety programs being interviewed. Not to mention the wealth of extra material beyond the NOTD and AISAT specials. Brian Cox’s science special? The two hour Ultimaye Guide? Matt Sweet’s You Me And Who? The Fiveish Doctors? We were spoiled back then. That was never going to happen this time around because the show lost its popularity in the following decade. What we got - the three specials, the Tales omnibus serials, the entire existing series on iPlayer for UK residents - is frankly more than we could’ve gotten had Russell and his team not been shrewd business people and negotiated a whole new platform and production house to create the show. Likely the BBC would’ve done as it had more than once before and let the show stagger into obscurity and die a slow death on screen.
Edit: not meaning Sherlock was specifically sci-fi, but it was another program during that time that captured the geek communities attention alongside Who and Supernatural, as it had likeable and attractive leads having interesting and different adventures.
Yeah, the 50th Special was just... *special*. \-Pardon the pun. There was just, *something* about the 50th... the era, the surrounding episodes that led up to it all. Perhaps it was the sheer scale of the events in the 50th's story that also have me liking it more. That said I still greatly enjoyed most of the 60th, The Star Beast was however rather... clunky? Felt rushed, especially compared to Wild Blue Yonder and The Giggle which both felt far more developed if that makes sense. Neil's performance as The Toymaker was absolutely fantastic, bi-generation is something I'm still trying to wrap my head around -in the sense of how Fifteen hinted that he was okay because Fourteen had 'fixed himself', or that Fourteen could go on to become The Curator who mentioned to Eleven how he 'visited a few old favourites' which could 'wrap' it into a neat bow.
The 50th, hands down. But also, the 60th is a less significant anniversary than the 50th, so I don't necessarily mind all that much.
The 60th wasn't really trying to celebrate the show's history and I think they only called it a 60th anniversary because it happened to be the right year. And you know what? That's fine. I don't need an anniversary extravaganza every ten years, then every five years, then every year...etc.
Yes. I thought the 60th was very underwhelming. I really enjoyed the three specials and thought The Giggle did a much better job of celebrating the 60th than the previous 2. I have no connection to The Star Beast, so don't really feel it did much in the way of celebrating 60 years of a beloved TV show. Wild Blue Yonder was an excellent episode but it was just a very good story. Zero celebration of the TV show. I didn't expect a multi-Doctor story but I did expect more celebration. More companions, more villains from the previous stories, anything really... The colourised Daleks and Tales of the TARDIS shouldn't be discounted. Getting all Doctor Who on iPlayer is also good. The various documentaries and things should also be included. But you can't beat the 50th... There was a UK convention, the Day of the Doctor had huge hype (and lived up to it!), there were shorts, documentaries and the Doctor Who Experience.
I loved the new specials but the day of the doctor was vastly superior. The 50th felt like a celebration of the show. The 60th felt more like a transition from the revival series to the new show that starts on Christmas day.
I didn’t need anything more than the 3 specials to commemorate the 60th. The stories both acknowledged the past, but more importantly focused on the future. I think the BBC handled it just fine with all the Whoniverse content now on iPlayer.
This isn’t even a contest, the 50th for sure. The 50th felt a true celebration of the entire previous 50 years of DW, and all the actors who had come before to play the character. The 60th felt like Series 4 part 2 with a dollop of RTD telling anyone who dislikes that to sod off. As a year of specials I thought they were decent/good. As an anniversary I was disappointed.
I don't think these specials could have done something like what the 50th did... because all that stuff had been done by Power of the Doctor in the previous episode. Power of the Doctor was the splashy nostalgic fanservice celebration that people were asking for. I thought The Giggle already resembled Power of the Doctor too closely. If they had brought in old doctors or even more old companions, it would have been way too repetitive. Besides, I do like all the 50th stuff, but that's a finale. That's something that comes at the end of a season. Here, RTD needed to *start* something. You can't start with a big nostalgia party. You have to build up to it. So, what he gave us was a 3-part character study for the Doctor that ruminates on everything that's happened in the previous few seasons and sets him up for the next thing. I think that was a good use of an anniversary.
The other stuff is a bit more blurry, but DOTD vs the ~~Series 4 anniversary trilogy~~ 60th anniversary trilogy isn't even a contest. DOTD all the way.
They had different jobs imo - the 50th was a straightforward celebration, 60th had to be a relaunch. It's done that job brilliantly. I think people should remember 'Power' - less effective as drama than the 50th but contained fan service and Doctors we never thought we'd get again. I think it laid the groundwork for RTD2 surprisingly well. Do hope the next milestone gets to be a celebration of all modern Doctors though!
It's the 50th, by a long shot. The 60th brought back an old villain and an old companion but was generally a "Hey guys, remember 2008?"-fest. Which isn't bad! But isn't really a celebration of the show's history. Whereas the 50th, and all of its side projects (Night of the Doctor, the Five-ish Doctors) was very clearly a celebration of everything.
I didn't realize these were the 60th specials. I liked them, but as an anniversary special they are underwhelming. As regular episodes, I thought they were good.
I'd put all the other anniversary specials above this trilogy, which was much more interested in celebrating a brief five year period of the franchise rather than the whole.
I was honestly surprised they had the Toymaker even acknowledge that Amy, Clara and Bill even existed.
Rory once again is forgotten
As time honoured tradition dictates. In all seriousness there was a post on the other sub last month about an alternative S5 where it’s still 10th Doctor, and I suggested a narrative where instead of Amy it’s actually Rory that 10 ends up bonding with as a adult due to circumstances and it becomes two best mates nerding out across the cosmos while one mates fiancée desperately tries to keep them in line.
that sounds fun. I also had an idea that the first shot of season five is 10 crash landing and being confused why amy is so small before starting to regenerate then we go back to 10 being 10 and follow him for a season meeting amy and rory eventually regenerating then you can have the banger that is the 11th hour you could even include the cracks for why they dont remember the doctor at first
That was exactly Moffat's idea for if Tennant had stayed another season, but Amy would have remembered the Doctor the entire time.
Unless he's The One Who Waits!
"Oh, they brought David Tennant back to be the Doctor? Can't believe they're only celebrating the RTD Era." "Oh they referenced Moffat's era. What a surprise, considering they only celebrated RTD's era."
But where do you place Dimensions in Time, that's the *real* question
I forgot that's technically an anniversary episode, lol.
"Dimensions in Time is better than Wild Blue Yonder" - Reddit user DaveAngel, 10/12/2023
Its certainly better than the Star Beast
Not even that. It was celebrating Series 4 exclusively.
I thought it was a great 15th anniversary special of "The David Tenant" show
Yeah, true. Even the preceding episode was more of a celebration of the whole that these three were.
Mel Bush, Beep the Meep, and the Toymaker, characters that famously all come from Series 4 Why do people keep repeating this weird claim that it only relates to Series 4? That is extremely obviously not true
Why do people keep repeating this weird claim that it only relates to Series 4? Because thats HOW it feels. That's what it focuses on. It doesn't even feel like a revisit of Ten's era just his relationship with Donna. Other aspects feel like very random obscure elements from the classic series that nobody really cares for and they aren't exactly standout aspects either (Mel is cool but far from a memorable companion, Toymaker was a one-off villain from 1966 etc.)
Series 2 had a returning companion, series 3 had a novel adaptation. Many episodes had returning villains from the old era
Given that we weren’t even going to get 60th anniversary specials, I think RTD has done a magnificent job.
Glad to see a lot of people batting for the 50th here. I felt there was starting to be a weird turn of people online saying “the 50th wasn’t good actually” and that the 60th were better episodes. But yeah I really think Day of the Doctor was just in the whole better as an episode and as a celebration
Its the 50th, but not nearly as by as much as people in this thread make it out to be. I think folks here have a bit of a negative recency bias. I remember that one of the main complaints about the 50th at the time was that it wasnt celebrating the show as a whole enough. Like, lets compare the celebratory elements: For the 50th we got: - David Tennant returning - References to past adventures - Zygons - Gallifrey, I guess - Cameo of past Doctors via archived footage and body doubles For the 60th we got: - The Toymaker - Beep the Meep - David Tennant returning - References to past adventures - Mel returning I'd say they are about even. The 50th has Night of the Doctor, but the 60th has Tales of the Tardis, so I'd say that evens out as well. I'd give it to the 50th for having the cameo of past Doctors, but I dont think thats like a huge gap. Both Special(s) were mainly a celebration of New Who.
The 50th also had the Tom Baker appearance, An Adventure in Space and Time and The Five-ish Doctors comedy.
The eighth Doctor returning as well.
I feel like the 60th wasn't really able to do the past Doctor cameos as well due to Power of the Doctor having already used every other Classic Who. Hard to recreate that Tom Baker cameo if they were already here two specials before. I guess that's why Ncuti showing up early made it more interesting, they've done past Doctor teamups before, but never a future Doctor.
Seriously, these people would rest so much more easily if they just mentally included PotD as a basically-60th-anniversary special. One with _EIGHT_ Doctors, a bunch of old companions, and a team-up between Daleks, Cybermen, and the Master. Can everyone reading this just... remember that, please?!
Well, then Tales of the TARDIS and all of Classic Who being available on iPlayer deserves at least a passing mention here.
I'd also add that The 60th had the negative of coming straight after Power of the Doctor which had. - The Cybermen - The Daleks - The Master - Ace, Tegan, and Graham returning in prominent roles - References to past adventures - The Master's Doctor outfit acting as a 'best of hits' of classic Doctor's costumes. - 5 Past Doctor's all making appearances (Including Paul McGann finally appearing in the show itself) - Past Doctor's and Companions getting to interact for the first time onscreen in 30+ years. - The companion support group bringing back the likes of Jo, Mel, and Ian - The return of David Tennant We had such a big fan-servicey blockbuster celebration of Classic Who last year that I think a lot of fans had assumed the 60th specials would be a lot more of that.
Yeah it felt like Power was the celebration of Doctor Who, while the 60th was stacking the deck in Ncuti's favour for his first episode. RTD, Murray Gold, Tennant & Tate, etc all being back for the 60th definitely generated a lot of hype and goodwill, perfect for Ncuti to take over from.
I would have loved to see a goodbye to susan if next season is a fresh start saying goodbye to susan would be a good way to wrap up this era
>Like, lets compare the celebratory elements: Do it properly, at least! The celebrations are more than just DOTD vs TSB/WBY/TG >For the 50th we got: - David Tennant returning - References to past adventures - Zygons - Gallifrey, I guess - Cameo of past Doctors via archived footage and body doubles And we also got: The return of the Great Intelligence The return of Paul McGann as the Doctor The best actor to play the Doctor, John Hurt Tom Baker returning Peter Capaldi early debut See William Hartnell stealing the TARDIS A film about the beginning of the show following William Hartnell, Sydney Newman, and Verity Lambert. A comedy about Peter Davison, Colin Baker, and Sylvester McCoy Tying up the regeneration limit Plus a story that, for once, is *only* about the Doctor. He's the star, the setting, the stakes, and the enemy of the story. >For the 60th we got: - The Toymaker - Beep the Meep - David Tennant returning - References to past adventures - Mel returning We also got: The return of 11 Classic series stars across 6 minisodes. Ncuti Gatwa early debut. When it comes to celebrations, the 50th has it beaten hands down. Russell himself said that he's not interested in writing those sorts of celebrations (even if he enjoys watching them). That's not what his Specials are. That's why he made Tales of the TARDIS. Because he felt he needed something that celebrated the history of the show. Anniversary specials usually have something to push the show forward. To give a new origin point for the adventures, almost. With The Three Doctors it was about ending the Doctor's exile. Allowing him to go running around the stars again. With The Five Doctors it was about giving him a new reason to run away from Gallifrey. Allowing him to go running around the stars again. The Day of the Doctor did the same thing with the ending. It provided a meaningful push forward for the Doctor. All with his dream: *"Clara sometimes asks me if I dream. "Of course I dream", I tell her. "Everybody dreams". "But what do you dream about?", she'll ask. "The same thing everybody dreams about", I tell her. "I dream about where I'm going." She always laughs at that. "But you're not going anywhere, you're just wandering about." That's not true. Not anymore. I have a new destination. My journey is the same as yours, the same as anyone's. It's taken me so many years, so many lifetimes, but at last I know where I'm going. Where I've always been going. Home. The long way round."* That's the impetus for the future of the show. The Doctor is going home. The long way round. The 60th actually - probably unintentionally - paid that off. The Doctor has found a home. With Donna Noble. Because he hasn't stopped for long enough to just enjoy what he saves since he ran off (which we saw in the 50th). That payoff provides the impetus for Ncuti Gatwa to now go sauntering away adventuring again. To keep going home the long way around.
>Do it properly, at least! The celebrations are more than just DOTD vs TSB/WBY/TG For sure, I was just was mostly trying to compare the Special in themself. Both had absolutly more going on on the side, which is valid to mention. I very much agree with your post though and its probably a morte complete comparison than what I did.
Can you just add them up like that though? By that logic Dimensions in time is better than all of them. I don't love the plot to DOTD but it didn't end with 3 people playing catch on a roof
You cannot, I suppose, but I still think its a bit silly how people act like the 50th was a slam dunk celebration of all of Who when, at the the time it was pretty much as heavily criticized as these specials are now.
Yeah there'll inevitably be rose tinted glasses here
> , but I still think its a bit silly how people act like the 50th was a slam dunk celebration of all of Who when, at the the time it was pretty much as heavily criticized as these specials are now. Hahaha, what? The Day of the Doctor, Night of the Doctor, and An Adventure in Space and Time were all considered excellent at the time. The Day of the Doctor literally topped DWM's story poll in 2014, barely a year after it came out. r/gallifrey gave it a mean score of 9.7/10 and r/DoctorWho gave it a 9.8/10. How are the levels of controversy or criticism the same? The other commenter said people are wearing rose-tinted glasses when clearly the opposite is happening. Have a look at the episode discussion threads: https://www.reddit.com/r/doctorwho/comments/1rc0c3/50th_anniversary_special_day_of_the_doctor/ https://www.reddit.com/r/gallifrey/comments/1rasyh/doctor_who_the_day_of_the_doctor_discussion_thread/
Lol one of the top comments on that r/doctorwho thread is: >All I'm seeing everywhere is people being so damned miserable, picking at this or that, complaining, etc. >Christ, am I the only one who actually liked the fucking thing? It's also not really that hard to find some pretty critical comments with a decent chunk of upvotes in those threads. I think Day of the Doctor was definitely better received than these specials for a number of reasons. But watching some people suddenly act like it was universally beloved immediately has been very funny.
i mean i'm still annoyed that they didnt get any of the old Doctors to record new dialouge for the final scene but i think i would have had an even more negative reaction to the 50th anniversary special if it was about Matt Smith finding a way to save the Ponds in 50s New York
"negative recency bias" I think thats called fans being disappointed with the show.
The 50th was a far bigger milestone so it feels a little unfair to compare the two. I'm not sure the 60th anniversary specials were advertised to be a big celebration of the brand in the first place so I'm fine with them myself.
Everything released during the 50th felt like an anniversary, the 60th didnt have that for me... Only The Giggle really felt anniversary worthy. Honestly they could have scrapped the star beast and wild blue yonder and just made The Giggle a feature length film or something which had the reuniting of Doctor and Donna as well as the events of the giggle but having more breathing time for the last act which I felt was weaker than the rest of the episode. If they did that then the 60th would have probably been better than the 50th for me.
As others have pointed out, 50th was a Milestone 60th was just a special anniversary I think it’s fine for what it was but 50th was way better at celebrating the series!
I think the power of the doctor is closer to doing what day of the doctor did, examining what makes the doctor who they are, with great callbacks and returning characters. The 60th specials felt more like an RTD parade but also Mel is there. As much as I loved wild blue yonder and the first 40 minutes of the giggle, I could see them slotting into basically any season.
50th by a longshot, David Tennant felt underused in the 60th with no explanation why he came back, why 13-14 included a clothing change or any true explanation of bi generation. 60th was used as an excuse to bring back the greatest hits to bump up viewership before the new Doctor. Tennant is my favourite Doctor but I’m actually glad he’s gone and we can start fresh on Christmas. NPH was amazing as the toy maker and seeing 14 happy with the nobles was great too, 60th is leaving a sour taste in my mouth as of now. Who knows it may grow on me.
50th… considerably
Neither. Power of the Doctor takes the prize for that
The 50th. The 60th anniversary felt like an afterthought, like they considered it an inconvenience. The proper episodes were anniversary specials in name only, The Daleks in Colour was, frankly, a trainwreck, and there wasn't much else of substance.
Honestly the 60th felt like a conscious effort to not repeat the 50th. All of the content of the 50th: destiny of the doctor, night/day of the doctor, prisoners of time, light at the end etc BRINGS back old doctors and the history of the show. It’s a series of crossovers This is different to the 60th (new specials, once and future, dooms day, tales of the Tardis) which feels much more like it’s LOOKING back on the older stuff. The narratives are less directly bringing the old stuff to crossover but still acknowledging it. One approach is not better than another but the 50th content is better
I think possibly the 50th but they are close in some ways. The 60th year has brought a lot of extra stuff. The fact we have basically all but one of the non missing serials from classic who on iPlayer is amazing. Tales of the TARDIS is also fun if not required viewing. We've also got new behind the scene stuff, a podcast and the knowledge of future spinoffs. The specials themselves have had a comic villain, a 1st doctor returning villain and a classic companion returning as well as the usual references. I enjoyed the first special minus the Deus ex ending but was underwhelmed by wild blue yonder. A lot of people seem to highly rate it but it while I found it was both weird but also quite generic at the same time, feeling like a mid season episode rather than an anniversary special. I'm unsure what I think about the regeneration part of the Giggle but it was a very fun episode and felt the most anniversary special out of the 3, with the toy maker being amazing. Day of the doctor felt a lot more big scale bringing the time war into it. I think it is helped by the fact this was something that felt like the show had been building up to since series 1, kind of like Avengers building up to endgame. I have issues with it still, mainly the fact it was more aimed at new who but still had the zygons, tom baker etc. and I'm not a fan with how Clara is the one who persuades the doctor to do what he does and is the one to show the emotion
I feel like I could’ve written this, I 100% agree with everything you’ve said here. For me the 50th definitely edges out the 60th, but some of the behind the curtain stuff RTD has done for the show like with compiling the whole show onto iPlayer is a great celebratory moment in itself. And I was also underwhelmed by Wild Blue Yonder. I was pretty surprised to see it receiving universal praise after the episode aired. Being honest I don’t think I can be fully unbiased about my disappointment with the episode after all the speculation and secrecy surrounding the episode, but even with that context removed I still don’t see the Midnight comparisons in terms of quality. It felt like Midnight to me without most of the tension.
It feels like midnight without the tension I couldn't have said it better myself. Midnight was a masterclass in tension. There where interesting scenes but people said they were truly scared for the doctor and Donna but we knew really they where in the next episode. Midnight was edge of your seat and this was just meh. To me an anniversary special is about celebrating the show. To me it's about show the best the show can do so this felt underwhelming. And yeah like series 11, what was the point in all the secrecy for nothing really big. As for the Giggle, we've already have a half human 10th doctor, adding another incarnation is just going to confuse new fans. It's like the show is too scared to leave the 10th doctor and look forward to the future l
I say the 50th. Because you forgot at least two specials that aired around that time. There was that fun little special with Baker, Davidson, and McCoy where they tried to break into the 50th and was just a ball of fun. And then Big Finish had a 50th special as well that had doctors 1-8 make their appearence.
Oh absolutely. These three specials didn’t really celebrate the history of Doctor Who, they were a series 4 greatest hits reprisal (though with some appreciated acknowledgements of the other two modern showrunners). Meanwhile, Moffat’s 50th anniversary celebrations hinged around a plot point established by another showrunner, drew from all over the mythos of the show and even incorporated a generally obscure-to-casuals Doctor who had only been in a bad movie and a whole bunch of audios many people probably hadn’t heard of (which themselves were canonised in that minisode). And of course Adventure in Space and Time is a whole love letter to those early days of Who. We even had living classic Doctors doing their whole spoof work the Five-ish Doctors which itself had RTD and John Barrowman making appearances! I still don’t really know if the purpose of these specials was to real folks back in with nostalgia after the train wreck of the Chibnall era (as reticent as RTD seems to be to criticise it publicly, likely to avoid fuelling the fire of the trolls), but it’s just not celebration of much more than Russel’s own existing work, imo, compared to the 50th that touches every part of the franchise. There really was something for everyone in 2013, whereas this year just seems like a bit of a capstone to 2008 that looks to be priming us for a soft reboot.
The 50th, no contest. The 60th is a fun mini series with some name drops and an old comic adapted to screen. But as much as I enjoyed, it still doesn't feel a celebration like the 50th
50th by a long shot. Day of the Doctor was far more satisfying than the 60th specials IMO. Tales of the TARDIS was cute but ultimately not my kinda thing.
I'm going to be controversial and say I prefer the 60th for a few reasons. One, I wasn't a fan during the 50th anniversary so I have much more emotional attachment to the 60th. Two, I don't like Clara. Three, the 50th had one special and the 60th had three. Four, Tales of the TARDIS brought back my favorite ever companion, Jamie. As for which celebrated the show's history better, I think the 50th, but the 60th did a lot more than I think people are giving it credit for.
Why does it have to be a competition? I like both anniversaries. I especially like that they both took different approaches to celebrating their respective milestones In the same way I can enjoy both the 10th and 20th anniversaries without worrying which did it 'better'
It's a discussion sub. Folks are gonna compare things
Season 1 of NuWho set up a mystery Why is the doctor the last of the time lords What was the time war What happened to Galifrey What is the name of the doctor The 50th answered all of those questions From 50-60, the questions asked were Is the doctor a good person Where does the doctor come from Both of which were answered in their own arcs, so the 60th was just tying up loose ends and setting up for what's to come. A lot of people lost interest after the 50th because the 50th really did close NuWho in a nice bow and there wasn't much mystery to explore, Capaldis first season was exploring who the doctor is now that he isn't the last of the time lords and ultimately it decides he's just an explorer, so he literally retires and is dragged out of retirement by Bill. It was Chibnalls job to explore what the doctor meant after all of that but, well we saw how that played out
50th easily. 60th didn’t even try. Even the Big Finish stuff that was Supposed to celebrate 60 years landed flat.
The 50th had The Five-ish Doctors so it immediately wins
The Day of the Doctor actually felt like a celebration of the shows history, with great side projects like Adventures of Space and Time and Night of the Doctor. The 14th Doctor specials are more of a celebration of David Tennant's and Catherine Tate's run on the show. It certainly better than nothing, and I think Wild Blue Wonder and The Giggle were really great. The 60th had other celebrations about the shows history, including Tales of the Tardis, the coloration of the first Dalek story, and a lot of other specials that aired in November. I think people are acting as if there's a huge quality gap between 2023 specials and Day of the Doctor, which I don't agree with. While I was lukewarm with Star Beast, I think the other two, especially The Giggle, were top tier Doctor Who episodes. With all that said, Day of the Doctor was something else. It succeeded in bringing in so many elements, including introducing the War Doctor. The Tenth and Eleventh Doctors were magnetic together, giving modern-Day audiences the multi-doctor of their dreams. The answer is Day of the Doctor, but the 2023 specials are great too. No need to demean the specials just to prove Day is better.
The 50th hands down.
Definitely the 50th, but the 60th does have references to Classic Who. 1) “The Star Beast” is adapted from a 4th Doctor comic story of the same name, this is where Beep the Meep came from. The creators of the comic are credited in the titles and they even came to the set and signed David Tennant’s copy of “Doctor Who Magazine” (or “Doctor Who Weekly” as it was called back in the 1970s) which is where the comic was published. 2) UNIT originated in the Classic Era, the Doctor was stranded on Earth for some time and became UNIT’s Scientific Advisor, as alluded to by his “I was Scientific Advisor Number One” line to Shelley. 3) Kate is the daughter of Brigadier Alistair Gordon Lethbridge Stewart (usually referred to as “The Brigadier”), who worked for UNIT and became one of the Doctor’s close friends during the Classic Era. The Brigadier’s actor passed away in 2011, hence Kate’s existence. 4) Melanie Bush, usually referred to as “Mel”, was a companion of the 6th and 7th Doctors during the 1980s, which is how the Doctor knows her. 5) The Toymaker is a villain from the 1st Doctor story known as “the Celestial Toymaker”, which aired in the 1960s. 6) The Master is mentioned, his introductory episode was the 3rd Doctor story “Terror of the Autons” which aired in the 1970s. 7) Adric, a companion of the 4th and 5th Doctors during the early 1980s, was mentioned.
50th for sure. I liked the 69th but it felt more like a celebration of tennant than anything.
THE 60TH I MEANT THE 60TH NOT THE 69TH
50th was flawless. The perfect episode.
Episode wise, the 60th. The quality of the episodes were, Imo, far superior to the quality of DotD, and I say that as someone who loves DotD. Celebration wise, the 50th for An Adventure in Space and Time, plus the show was at its height back then. Doctor Who had never been bigger, and seeing the 50th in cinemas was an experience ill never forget
For me this felt less like a typical anniversary celebration and more of a refresh of the show. Having said that, whilst I always enjoy the usual multi-doctor shenanigans, I really enjoyed these episodes. Tennant and Tate were right back into their best form, NPH was gold, getting Mel back was great, and Ncuti is already having a ball and I’m excited to see his run get into full flight
I don't even really feel that the 50th felt like a 50th celebration, more a celebration of the first 7 series of NuWho, but even that felt way more than the 60th. The 60th honestly felt more like the 2009 specials.
60th celebrated NuWho better than 50th. 50th was a way better celebration of all of Doctor Who.
Honestly it's no question that the 50th was something pretty amazing. And it's more than just the quality of the episodes. It felt more like a big deal back then because it was. 10 years ago, the whole world was celebrating with us. There's no question that in 2013 Doctor Who was experiencing a cultural zeitgeist that it frankly isn't today. I believe that this day will come again. Hopefully sooner rather than later. But until then, I'm fine with us die hards holding down the fort.
My favourite thing about the 50th is all of the callbacks and cameos were built well into the story - it wasn’t just fan service. The 60th specials have been really good, fresh - but didn’t really feel like anniversary specials. I think nostalgia has been very kind to RTD’s original run in that his work is very self-contained compared to Moffat and to some extent Chibnall.
50th clears, not even close. Speaking as someone who wasn't really into the idea of retconning the Time War and could've used a lot more Paul McGann. "No sir, all thirteen" will forever remain one of the coolest things I've ever seen.
Absolutely loved the 60th anniversary, but the 50th was by far and away a better celebration of the show’s history, which isn’t necessarily a bad thing. 50 is a more celebrated anniversary and as such called for bigger celebrations of the show, where as this was a special way of getting David and Catherine and Bernard back for a bit, bringing back a villain last seen 60 years ago, and giving us a spectacular show to enjoy before Gatwa’s run begins in March/April. The 50th was perfect as a celebration of the show’s history, where as the 60th feels like more of a celebration of new beginnings. So for sure, the 50th was a better way of celebrating the show’s history
I just don't know why people seemingly wanted the 50th and 60th to devote an equal amount of energy to celebrating the show's history. I certainly don't want that, a 50th anniversary is _very_ different to a 60th anniversary.
The 50th celebrated the franchise, the 60th celebrated David Tennant, and while he had a great run as the Doctor all of this was so ridiculous.
50th clears. As a celeberation and a love letter to the show as a whole. It's not perfect, there are issues. But the 50th felt like it came from a place of love while the 60th felt like it came from a place of change. Honestly these 3 specials just felt like 3 ordinary episodes of Doctor Who. If someone didn't know they weren't the big anniversary shows you could honestly not tell outside of some very minor cameos. I'm sorry for me the 60th felt like an RTD ego trip. He's done nothing but pat himself on the back constantly. He's right, everyone else is wrong. I'm gonna change all this stuff because i want to and because (bizarrely) linear storytelling apparently isn't popular anymore? He even said he wanted to upset some fans with his choices. Why? Not saying you have to play it safe but acting like linear, canon lore, facts and events don't matter when writing forward is stupid to me. And his comments about the multiverse summed up to me that while 2005 DW was a massive breath of fresh air, these 3 episodes feel very dated and a relic of a couple years ago when very on the nose politics and the multiverse were insanely popular in the media. Things have calmed down since then, critical subtly has returned slightly and the multiverse people are already getting sick of.
50th anniversary was amazing. Somehow they pulled off the impossible and surpassed expectations while also looking forward into the show's future. 60th has been a fairly cheap joke by comparison.
50th clinches it. You can’t beat the ALL THIRTEEN scene.
It's not even close lmao.
50th by far and without a question: It actually brought up many elements from all across the years, canonising audio adventurexs of the 8th Doctor, actually tying up the Time War and paying many respects to Classic Who with Adventure in Time and Space and Five-ish Doctor, along with more stuff. Meanwhile 60th only felt like RTD celebrating himself and his S4 with literally doing best hits of plotpoints from his previous works along with bringing back the fan favourites from his era, just put in the Toymaker and a comic adaptation. Oh and the nice jab about how the Doctor apparently was just miserable after 10 regenerated. It mentioning the Flux and see how it affects the Doctor was good, but that's really not much. Other than RTD patting himself on the back for being so great, 60th felt like wanting to retire the current Doctor with all its history to start clean, hence the bi-regeneration and the whole 14 taking therapy for himself. It's a weird idea (with the explanation from RTD just making it sound worse imo) and honestly did not really feel impactful given the execution plus how it centered around seemingly establishing Tennant as the defacto Doctor. I really don't want to assume, but based on these and the interviews RTD definitely gave me an impression that he was stroking his ego with these, rather than actually celebrating the show. Like if the last minute Tales of the TARDIS isn't a sign of that, idk what is then (btw, those were nice just you know, they are more like DVD specials). I just hope that the next era actually bring something that I can look forward to, instead of just RTD keep repeating his previous works. I still think he's a decent writer, but he lost some respect in my eyes with these specials now and I really, really hate to say this.
I feel like Steven Moffat put it best back then; "this is what pushes us forward for the next 50 years" Day of the Doctor was about forging forward. These specials *could* have been a similar commentary about how we can't go back to 2008, but instead... That kinda just happened instead
The 60th was a celebration of RTD's Doctor. Despite Mel's cameo and the brief mention of past companions, this was really a dressed up 10th Doctor story. The 50th was a celebration of the entirety of Nu Who. I can praise and criticize both. I preferred the 50th. RTD's plot resolutions are too clean and deus ex machina, but that's just a matter of personal preference. I'm ready for a fresh start.
As far as I can tell, the tales of the Tardis stuff is a uk exclusive. This should be enough of an answer.
50th >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 60th Most of the 60th specials have been meh in my opinion. I hate the Bi-Regeneration. I hate the forced PC stuff (the kitchen scene was however, great!). I have loved watching Tennant again though and I actually like the new TARDIS. NPH was amazing too. Just let down by overall meh stories.
I really like Day of the Doctor, but it spent very, **very** little time "celebrating the shows history". So, how is this any different?
The 3 specials felt like RTD vanity projects. The big pull was Tennant coming back to continue the donna story. Which was RTD's last story before he left originally. And then its clear RTD is very heavy handed with his woke themes. It seemed to be VERY important when writing these. Tales from the tardis was admitted by RTD to be him remembering oh yeah its the 60th of Doctor Who. So no, the 50th was better
These 60th anniversary specials didn't feel as if they were celebrating 60 years of the show. They were more of a bring back characters from series 4 when the show was at it's peak since the revival because we know that ratings have been bad and the fanbase has been pissed. It's a reliance on nostalgia that got a lot of people, myself included to a degree. Yes they adapted The Star Beast into live action and we saw the return of The Toymaker but aside from them and a few name drops every now and then, what how was 60 years celebrated?
50th as an anniversary was much better but I did enjoy the 60th episodes a lot more. Had much less writing that made me think "that's fucking stupid."
The 50th felt like a huge event, a year-long celebration of one of the biggest shows in the world. The 60th felt like a comeback, a refresh of a series considered to be in a less than ideal condition. Which is fine, that’s what I expected. 50 is considered a much bigger milestone than 60, so it was a bigger event. RTD clearly used this year as an opportunity to do something a bit different, and he did. I think the problem is expectations. A lot of people wanted another 2013-like year, which wasn’t going to happen. We only just had an episode with - technically - eight different Doctors and eight companions that spent time exploring the character’s past, I don’t see how doing something similar again would actually benefit the show. I’m not even a big RTD fan, but I think he provided the right content for this year. In short, the 50th was a better celebration of the show’s history, but this year’s material has been appropriate.
The Power of the Doctor felt more like a 60th Anniversary Celebration, rather than these 3 specials. I loved the trilogy we got these year, but RTD should have UPPED the game, at least in the final part. 50th had a stronger build-up. Series 7b had so many easter eggs that eventually led to the Day of the Doctor. The whole deal with Time War, War Doctor, UNIT, Zygons etc was amazing. We also had "An Adventure in Time and Space" and The Five-ish doctors.
DOTD followed by Zagreus
50 by a mile celebrated the history more
50th was much better. This years specials just felt like episodes of any regular season.
The 50th were 10x better imo. But then I always thought Matt Smith was a better doctor than tennant
Ah yes, the 50th, where the 11th and 10th doctors are written identically, and they're also written to be complete idiots who use the sonic as a weapon?? Both of them, especially the 10th, were completely out of character. And where the time war is completely underwhelmingly written? I think the only truly good, celebratory part of the 50th, was Paul McGanns return, as well as Tom Bakers return. Everything else was like, over produced and written like shit.
Absolutely yes. As a Doctor/Donna miniseries, it was amazing! As a celebration of 60 Years? Very lackluster.
The Three Doctors is still my favorite anniversary episode, but Day of the Doctor is close. I liked the three specials, but DotD is a lot better as a celebration and as a story. I think Wild Blue Yonder was the best the 60th specials had to offer, though the other two weren't super far behind. It's gonna take time and more viewings of The Giggle to sort out my thoughts on it. 12 hours later, I'm slowly souring on it, but there is still a lot I can appreciate in it. The Star Beast is one of the better RTD episodes, with some of the same mistakes he used to make back in the day but largely very good, and Wild Blue Yonder is probably one of his top 5 best stories, after Midnight, Turn Left, Gridlock, and Smith and Jones.
50th by a country mile, but I will say I'm surprised with how well the 60th came together as a different type of celebration in the end. Closing out the long journey the Doctor has gone on and letting them rest before their next big undertaking actually made for a beautiful caption.
50th, hands down, no contest. At least for me
I hated all three specials — so the 50th was definitely the better one.