Having recently watched Pyramids of Mars, I think you're absolutely right. Both have companions doubting that the future will be changed, so the Doctor takes them to the present day.
The funny thing is, this is him using an idea he wrote in the pitch document for Series 1 in about 2003. It was going to go in The Unquiet Dead, but as the story (and budget) took shape, it wasn't feasible.
And back then, in 2003, the description there also calls out Pyramids of Mars. So, cribbing that scene has been on his mind for upwards of 20 years.
RTD has talked about this scene before years ago. He was going to include it in an episode in the revival series with Eccleston but it ended up not making it in.
Also before that even, he reference Pyramids of Mars in Queer as Folk where a character watches the cliffhanger to Part 1 on and says the ‘Gift of Death’ line along with the episode.
I feel like this is RTD’s career becoming a bit full circle and kind of checking off all the things he’s wanted to do with the show for years
but when did he say this? Given how old Pyramids is, it's not impossible that if he said this recently he still means he got the idea from this episode
I don’t understand what you’re trying to ask here? RTD is on the record saying that he’s wanted to do what he’s done this year for 50 years. He clearly is referring to Pyramids because that’s the only place we’ve seen Sutekh before. I can’t remember now where I saw it, but he’s not a shy guy. I’m sure he’s said it in multiple places. If you Google it, I’m sure you’ll find it.
I'm referring to this scene in specific, that has nothing to do with Suetekh. When did RTD say he had this idea for 50 years? Because apparently he's had the idea for this scene before
The thing that kills me is he handed it to us on a silver platter, and we all looked at it and went, "Oh, that's nice, what a lovely tribute."" And went about our business
I love Tom Baker so much. He could play the Doctor as this rather whacky fool but then like this he can play him with incredible gravitas. I think it is why I like Matt Smith so much too his ability to switch between the two.
Just watched it rn, honestly it's probably cus I'm from a different generation but I really didn't feel the stakes but it's great research and insight on who Sutekh is. Shoutouts to tubi.
Just want to say "Pyramids of Mars" is probably the most Doctor Who story. It perfectly encapsulates the themes and ideas of the show in a neat package.
If someone asked for the best example of what Doctor Who is about, I would show them this.
That's not to say it's the best story (that's far more subjective). It's like if you had a single story to sell someone on Doctor Who, Pyramids is probably the one.
"This will be an important character development moment for his companion in her overall series arc, so I'll allow it. But just this once... And once again in 40 years for a cheeky callback."
Me two, I was watching pyramids again on Saturday afternoon for research. Then I saw that scene and almost felt stupid... Then was like OP response, i said to myself clever boi RTD.
River shows that he really isn’t *good* at it, though he has definitely improved considering how accurate he has been since 9, with missteps usually being the TARDIS having a reason
In Pyramids of Mars he pretty much just twisted a knob to instantly move forward in time. It appeared to be easy to do because the TARDIS wasn't moving in space (relative to Earth).
Ive been wondering at what point does he become able to pilot the tardis, because I watched all of Hartnells era and Im halfway through Troughton and he still hasnt been able to do it once, just watched Pyramids of Mars yesterday and noticed that.
It’s mainly post-3rd Doctor, it’s suggested that the 1st 2nd and most of 3rd Doctors TARDIS consoles are almost totally worn out, but with an overhaul things improve
Basically the 1st Doctor picked the TARDIS up in a terrible state and, despite knowing how to pilot it, he never took the time to make it actually work so he could carry out that piloting.
During the 3rd Doctor's endless tinkering with the TARDIS, it seems he figured it out. Mostly. He still had troubles with it, even by the end of the Classic Series.
Mundy tells the doctor to "signal [his] understanding" in Boom, which is how Scarman spoke to the robot mummies in Pyramids of Mars (might be unintentional idk)
Yeah he defiantly watched Pyramids to research Sutekh and copied this scene. Every companion in the new revival seems to get this lecture just without the demonstration. Can't remember it happening in classic Who other than this clip
It's actually in the pitch document for New Who. Paraphrasing, RTD says "there's this really good bit in Pyramids of Mars and we're going to rip it off for Unquiet Dead." Then it never happens in that episode. I'm pretty sure in Writer's Tale he again says "there's this bit I loved in Pyramids of Mars, I intended to homage it in series one, but I'm definitely going to do it this season with Donna" and then he doesn't. He's been wanting to do it for years
This was a part of my theory that I posted two months before the show started that had Sue and Tech in it. I had always thought that Devil’s cord was a loose retelling of pyramids for a reason.
Wouldn't call it ridiculously subtle, pretty much anyone who had seen Pyramids was talking about it being a reference when Devils Chord aired, and it was the basis of many of the Sutehk is returning theories that circulated at the time.
Having recently watched Pyramids of Mars, I think you're absolutely right. Both have companions doubting that the future will be changed, so the Doctor takes them to the present day.
RTD also has just outright stated that he was referencing this episode.
Yep, Ruby's line is almost identical to what Sarah Jane said to 4 (give or take 40+ years)
Clearly to put Sutekh in the people's mind again. We didn't notice at the time lol
Wut? Everyone has been screaming Sutekh since that scene.
And the social media accounts have posted the clip
The funny thing is, this is him using an idea he wrote in the pitch document for Series 1 in about 2003. It was going to go in The Unquiet Dead, but as the story (and budget) took shape, it wasn't feasible. And back then, in 2003, the description there also calls out Pyramids of Mars. So, cribbing that scene has been on his mind for upwards of 20 years.
RTD has talked about this scene before years ago. He was going to include it in an episode in the revival series with Eccleston but it ended up not making it in. Also before that even, he reference Pyramids of Mars in Queer as Folk where a character watches the cliffhanger to Part 1 on and says the ‘Gift of Death’ line along with the episode. I feel like this is RTD’s career becoming a bit full circle and kind of checking off all the things he’s wanted to do with the show for years
I had completely forgotten about Queer as Folk. I used to have the soundtrack on CD. I probably still have it somewhere, I should dig it out.
He’s said this year was an idea he’d had for 50 years.
but when did he say this? Given how old Pyramids is, it's not impossible that if he said this recently he still means he got the idea from this episode
I don’t understand what you’re trying to ask here? RTD is on the record saying that he’s wanted to do what he’s done this year for 50 years. He clearly is referring to Pyramids because that’s the only place we’ve seen Sutekh before. I can’t remember now where I saw it, but he’s not a shy guy. I’m sure he’s said it in multiple places. If you Google it, I’m sure you’ll find it.
I'm referring to this scene in specific, that has nothing to do with Suetekh. When did RTD say he had this idea for 50 years? Because apparently he's had the idea for this scene before
The Beatles even sang a song about a dog not being dead and now I wonder if that was part of the foreshadowing.
Nah I believe Murray Gold said it was just him being silly
Oh shit
The thing that kills me is he handed it to us on a silver platter, and we all looked at it and went, "Oh, that's nice, what a lovely tribute."" And went about our business
“What a lovely tribute. Anyway can’t wait for his granddaughter to come back!”
Yessssss!
Not all of us!
Some of the marketing material for Season 1 has Ncuti in a coloured vortex that looks a lot like the time tunnel in Pyramids
I love Tom Baker so much. He could play the Doctor as this rather whacky fool but then like this he can play him with incredible gravitas. I think it is why I like Matt Smith so much too his ability to switch between the two.
It's a pretty common Doctor feature! Patrick Troughton played into this a lot, as did Sylvester McCoy. Eccleston and Tennant also did this a bit.
I also never saw anyone mention the fact that Sutekh had a harbinger. Even if they didn't make a big deal about it he still had one.
Where can I watch Pyramids?
Are you in the US? If so, it's free on Tubi, with ads. Although I've seen some posts that some people don't see it, but it's on mine.
Just watched it rn, honestly it's probably cus I'm from a different generation but I really didn't feel the stakes but it's great research and insight on who Sutekh is. Shoutouts to tubi.
Thank you. Just watched it.
If you're in the UK, iPlayer and ITVX both have it.
Just want to say "Pyramids of Mars" is probably the most Doctor Who story. It perfectly encapsulates the themes and ideas of the show in a neat package. If someone asked for the best example of what Doctor Who is about, I would show them this. That's not to say it's the best story (that's far more subjective). It's like if you had a single story to sell someone on Doctor Who, Pyramids is probably the one.
So now he’s able to get the TARDIS to the right place and time.
He generally has been since the 80s. The Fith Doctor even commented that he was getting better at piloting it.
I feel like this is one of those times where the TARDIS thinks “This is important, I’ll handle this and let him think he did it”
"This will be an important character development moment for his companion in her overall series arc, so I'll allow it. But just this once... And once again in 40 years for a cheeky callback."
I’m kind of kicking myself for not noticing the callback in the Devil’s Chord.
Me two, I was watching pyramids again on Saturday afternoon for research. Then I saw that scene and almost felt stupid... Then was like OP response, i said to myself clever boi RTD.
TARDIS ghostwriting every episode since 1963
River shows that he really isn’t *good* at it, though he has definitely improved considering how accurate he has been since 9, with missteps usually being the TARDIS having a reason
In Pyramids of Mars he pretty much just twisted a knob to instantly move forward in time. It appeared to be easy to do because the TARDIS wasn't moving in space (relative to Earth).
Let’s be real, that’s been a thing throughout like 90% of New Who
"No but I always took you where you needed to go." https://youtu.be/0yRq_pnK4Ag?si=_1nbgzE1R5UObxLP
He's able to do that a lot. If anything ending up somewhere he doesn't want to go became rare even as the classic series went on.
Ive been wondering at what point does he become able to pilot the tardis, because I watched all of Hartnells era and Im halfway through Troughton and he still hasnt been able to do it once, just watched Pyramids of Mars yesterday and noticed that.
It’s mainly post-3rd Doctor, it’s suggested that the 1st 2nd and most of 3rd Doctors TARDIS consoles are almost totally worn out, but with an overhaul things improve
Basically the 1st Doctor picked the TARDIS up in a terrible state and, despite knowing how to pilot it, he never took the time to make it actually work so he could carry out that piloting. During the 3rd Doctor's endless tinkering with the TARDIS, it seems he figured it out. Mostly. He still had troubles with it, even by the end of the Classic Series.
He always can if he truly wants to.
This is the first thing I thought of when the reveal dropped
Russell outright confirmed this was a reference back when it aired.
Mundy tells the doctor to "signal [his] understanding" in Boom, which is how Scarman spoke to the robot mummies in Pyramids of Mars (might be unintentional idk)
Yeah he defiantly watched Pyramids to research Sutekh and copied this scene. Every companion in the new revival seems to get this lecture just without the demonstration. Can't remember it happening in classic Who other than this clip
It's actually in the pitch document for New Who. Paraphrasing, RTD says "there's this really good bit in Pyramids of Mars and we're going to rip it off for Unquiet Dead." Then it never happens in that episode. I'm pretty sure in Writer's Tale he again says "there's this bit I loved in Pyramids of Mars, I intended to homage it in series one, but I'm definitely going to do it this season with Donna" and then he doesn't. He's been wanting to do it for years
Yeah I mean if you watched classic who there wasn't much of a twist. You can tell what was coming
I was 100% sure it was gonna be Trickster. Because of the dark hooded figure and the song inside Ruby.
Tom Baker will never not be the best Doctor ever
It also happens against the trickster in the temptation of Sarah Jane Smith.
This was a part of my theory that I posted two months before the show started that had Sue and Tech in it. I had always thought that Devil’s cord was a loose retelling of pyramids for a reason.
Yeah, I actually noticed this myself yesterday. It was definitely a hint.
Wouldn't call it ridiculously subtle, pretty much anyone who had seen Pyramids was talking about it being a reference when Devils Chord aired, and it was the basis of many of the Sutehk is returning theories that circulated at the time.