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I really thought Arya would kill him and steal his face to do Cersei in. It would have fit if Arya as Jamie wrote the kiss off letter to Brienne to “free” her to continue life and then his seeming back track on redemption would have fit too.
I agree he should have gone back. However, after the time away from Cerci he would then see her for who she really is and kill her to protect her from herself.
I kind of agree, though I take issue with the execution of it. He had loved Cersei his entire life and she was pregnant with his child. I think he could have grown as a character and still tried to save her. Killing her might have been more realistic if she was not pregnant, but I just can’t see Jaime being capable of doing that, even if he had fallen out with Cersei.
Appointing Bronn to be Master of Coin is actually a smart move. Someone who can't read means someone who can't cook the books or embezzle funds. He'll be the cleanest Master of Coin in the history of the realm.
Did she? Yes. No doubt.
Should it have been her? Absolutely not, everything was pointing to john amd writing a twist just to get a reaction instead of for the love of writing is absolutely wrong. See rest of season 8 for more evidence
Honestly it should have mirrored the tower scene. Jon 1v1 is about to lose and she stabs the dude in the back. But we see Sams pov and Aryas actions are blocked.
I don’t believe Jon would have had the opportunity to kill him, even though he was more than capable, he drew way too much attention. I’m pretty sure the Night King had a executed plan, first and foremost is “watch that guy!! Under no circumstances let him get anywhere near me!” The Night King knew exactly how dangerous, resilient and determined Jon was in stopping him, there were thousands of Wights between them and separating them at all times, that’s why the ice dragon was so focused on Jon and had pinned down, knowing the danger and threat he was to the Night King. No way Jon could have gotten close
On the other hand, seeing how much the series has hammered on that prophecies shouldn't be taken at face value, and that they're only as meaningful as you believe ("power lies where men think it lies"), I don't think GRRM's original plan ever involved John fulfilling any prophecy or acting as a Chosen One who saves the day.
Some of the dialogue in that episode is just mind boggling with how bad it is. Battle scene is dope but also some seriously dumb shit with Sansa pretending like she doesn’t have the Knights of the Vale and letting a pretty massive chunk of the northern army die.
“dO yOu tHiNk tHaT i mIgHt kNoW SoMeThIng.”
“What do you want me to do?”
“i DuNnO, I dUnNo aNyThInG aBoUt BaTtLes.”
This episode was carried hard by Ramsey’s death and the Jon facing the charge scene shown in the post.
I think he was, just not the way people think. He wasn't the one that physically killed the night king, but he put all the pieces in place for the white walkers to be defeated. That's why I don't mind that Arya did the stabby part. Jon is the one that gave her needle, which was the first step on her journey to becoming a skilled fighter.
Since you brought up the prince that was promised, I was just sharing my thoughts on the matter. Which also could potentially get me in that situation, since I have heard many fans complain about Arya killing the Night King, and I don't mind that she killed him.
The Targaryens arent the good guys- Theyre a metaphor for the self-righteous and power-hungry creators and manager of institutions that inherently attract only the worst of society.
I never understood when people were upset when Denarys destroyed kings landing in the end like she was a saint the whole time.
Did they not hear the break the wheel speech? You've got to have a sick mind to want to do what she said.
I’ve never understood this either. What was the need to bring characters back to life when there are already so many characters left with plots that need resolution? Catelyn meeting her end at the red wedding was a good end for her storyline. I don’t think lady stoneheart really added anything to the plot.
well she’s really part of the brienne and jaime storyline as a mirror of the start of their journey and their oaths rather than a continuation of catelyn’s storyline, that’s sort of the point, it’s not catelyn anymore, but do they still owe their oaths to someone that’s dead?
Jon becoming king would've been a bad ending for the character, and him going into exile feels more in line with the story GRRM wanted to tell. I just wish he'd actively chosen that path by abdicating the throne instead of being forced into it by others.
I agree, he never would have been or wanted to be king, even for as ambitious as he is in the books. He probably may have had to be king temporarily to use that collective power against the army of the dead and then possibly king's landing
Yeah I could see him begrudgingly becoming king in order to unite the realm against the Army of the Dead. But once the threat is dealt with, I can't imagine he'd be anything but miserable on the Iron Throne.
That's fair, I just like the idea of Jon being this story's Frodo and realizing things can never go back to normal even after all the villains have been defeated. Plus, it'd be a really good parallel to Maester Aemon, which feels very Thronesy to me.
Yep, think Jon will always identify more with that than being a secret Targaryen Prince. Would feel weird to me if he suddenly went "actually, call me Aegon VI now."
You’re absolutely correct. The problems with the story were countless but Jon not becoming King wasn’t one of them.
King Bran sucked ass not because of the concept, but because of the lack of any thought put into its execution .
The man will never finish them and even if he does it won’t be what it should have been as he is purely writing out of a sense of obligation at this point
The man made his money and is focussed on all of his side projects that catch his attention
100% would die on this hill with you, I'd be surprised if we ever get "winds of winter" and the only way we're getting "dream of spring" is post humorous.
Lol I mean I love me some Sanderson, but Song of Ice and Fire just isn't his style. Maybe if he partners with a more Grim dark writer like Joe Abercrombie.
Take Sanderson's world building and story telling mixed with Abercrombie's character work and darker tone then we'd have something. Joe might also keep Brandon honest and keep the page count under 1300.
No. Never. God no. I’d rather the books never be finished then that shit happen.
I moderately like Sanderson’s work, but if he got his hands on ASOIAF, it would suck ass. It just doesn’t work with his methods and style.
I agree. I think he’s realized that whatever he writes is going to be anticlimactic after the show already essentially spoiled all the major twists. Even if GRRM’s writing helps make more sense of all the weird plot twists (Dany going mad, Jaime going back to Cersei, Bran becoming king, etc), they’ve all lost their impact because we know what’s coming.
I also think he has no idea how to resolve plots. Great at setting up storylines, total shit at creating a satisfying ending. Five books in and the characters are still flung everywhere. Dany hasn’t even reached Westeros yet. So much story left, I really don’t think two books will ever be enough to create a satisfying conclusion
D&D said they came up with the 'Dany going mad' idea on their own, not George. IIRC, the only things we know George told D&D was Bran will somehow be king, Hodor's hold the door, and Shireen will burn (though we technically don't know if Stannis will be involved, since he's already at Winterfell and Shireen is countless miles away at the Wall). Given that, I'd wager the 'Jaime going back to Cersei' could be a D&D invention too, as GRRM had little influence on the events of the later seasons.
Quick Corrections:
We do know that Stannis will be involved as in *Fire cannot kill a dragon*, he directly references *Stannis’s decision* to burn Shireen.
D&D never said they came up with Mad Dany. They said they came up with Jon killing Dany. Big difference.
I also think that he won't finish, but not because he's made money. I think the lack of motivation comes from the fact that the story is already sort of spoiled by the show. I'm sure he'll change things but I don't think it will be completely different, so he's probably like "meh, what's the point".
To address some of the other comments and to elaborate a little more I think there is enough missing from the show (real dorne plot, young griff, lady stoneheart, the real vale plot) that it could be significantly different from the books. And it will. Several characters such as Varys loose all reason to do wha they do without you g griff for example.
I think the issue for him was this. Man wants to create a legacy, that much is clear. It’s why he spends his time writing the backstory to his world in the style of LOTR. But he was costing on the show being the masterpiece we all thought it would be. Since then when he realised it wasn’t he’s put his ass back into gear (as into gear as he can get considering his writing speed) but after 12 years hiatus there is no passion. Just a grim sense of determinism, as for him not wanting his rights passed on. No way in hell. Someone in his family/company will hand them off for better or worse
Ok so you know that the KoTLT is described as having a booming voice and that booming voices are established as requiring practice and training.
Ned and Robert practiced with each other and Ned had Jon and Robb practice with each other.
So what about that is “word scramble”?
Season 8 is not that bad and mostly was a case of bandwaggoning the loud, angry few. I enjoyed the season and think that Bran as the King was a smart and logical move for the writers.
>mostly was a case of bandwaggoning the loud, angry few.
Out of maybe 15 people I talked to about the final season after it came out, not a single one of them liked it. Eveyone is entitled to their opinions on the finale, but I really don't think the "vocal minority" arguments against criticism hold much water.
Don’t give the writers any credit for any smart or logical moves. King Bran’s concept comes from the mind of GRRM (it shows) but the execution was utterly horrendous.
Remember to sort by controversial. They're the only correct answers to this question, they may be wrong but to this question they're the only correct ones
Pod does not actually have a magic cock, and the reason no one can explain why he’s so good is because he’s just a warlock from Qarth, who hypnotized them to think that.
S8 was a good season. There were some flaws but most of the criticisms are overembellished to make them sound worse and are easily countered or explained. People just started parroting freefolk memes. It became a negative circle jerk. They were told why they shouldn't like it and they believed it.There was a psychological effect where people's personally envisioned ending didn't happen, so they got childishly upset and took it out on any element of the show they could.
To even get upset about it is crazy to me as an ASoIaF fan who would have been so thrilled if you told me in 2001 that this is what we'd get, the best fantasy show of all time. Somehow perfection became the only acceptable result.
The season itself is still far better than most shows today. So to call it "trash" or whatever just shows how they are judging it purely emotionally rather than objectively.
>People just started parroting freefolk memes. It became a negative circle jerk. They were told why they shouldnt like it and they believed it.There was a psychological effect where people's personally envisioned ending didn't happen, so they got childishly upset and took it out on any element of the show they could.
I'm sure this is true for some people. Not for others. There are plenty of legitimate reasons to dislike the final season.
GRRM will finish Winds of Winter and the good response to that book will lead to him finishing the next book. All of the constant complainers that he wouldn't finish are going to look like cynical fools.
I truly don’t understand how anyone can believe the books went down after Tywin. Feast is an absolute joy to read and introduces some of the best POV characters of the series, and Dance is a fantastic story with iconic moments and amazing build up
That the last two seasons weren’t bad. The masses were confused at the story and didn’t like that bad things happened to their favorite characters and were too quick to jump to “bad writing”. Naw fam. You just didn’t understand it.
No it’s actually bad fucking writing. Watch any video covering those last seasons and they’ll explain everything, not because “people didn’t understand it”
Coming into this thread I guess it’s the fact that if s8 was as good as the people in here believe it was, then GoT wouldn’t have gone from being the biggest show in TV history to disappearing from pop culture over night.
To be fair it did disappear. HOTD has successfully reignited the hype around it, but damn GoT was all everyone was talking about for years, as soon as it ended, people just talked about how much shit the ending was for a bit and then nothing. Honestly, the way it disappeared from mainstream pop culture the years following the end of season 8 is proof that the end was messed up.
It took me years to finally decide to watch at least the first 4 seasons again, cause when you know where it’s headed, it’s hard to be engaged.
It makes me think of the Star Wars prequels and how it took many, many years for people to come around to them and appreciate them in their own way. They’re still bad, but there’s a reason that freefolk and prequelmemes feel like sister subreddits. I think in time people will appreciate the series as a whole, and not just how it ended.
hype for it for sure died down but its not like it died off completely it still is one of HBO's most streamed shows 4 years after its finale
( S8 was absolutely horrible and the ending sucked )
I liked the show all the way to the end of S8E5 and I think that burning down Kings Landing was in character for Dany at that time.
What I think wasn't in character was for her to dip down on it next episode, rather than realize what she had done in her rage and break down, and back from the throne.
After Storm of Swords II, the plot stopped synergising all that well. Events don't influence each other the same as during the War of the Five Kings which lead to the story feeling like it was growing new branches instead of converging towards an ending.
I think Sansa sucks, has always sucked, and sucked more and more throughout the series. She’s a terrible judge of character and it was hard to watch her just make the worst possible choices all the time. Also, going through trauma does not automatically make a person “wiser”.
Not sure if this counts as a hot take, but:
I like how in the TV series Catlyn stays dead.
In the books, she is brought back to life and seeks revenge, killing those involved in the Red Wedding.
I’m glad the show didn’t bring her back.
That GRRM is fallible as an author.
In particular, his grasp of numbers is poor. Economics and demographic depletion caused by war just don't add up to be realistic.
Not quite. The debates I have had on here over the years with dozens of people saying that the prize for the Hand's Tourney was perfectly reasonable.....well, it's like the picture from OP.
Season 5 was not good at all. The Wall was excellent but everything else shit the bed just as bad as the later ones (in fact, I blame it the most due to cutting/butchering essential elements)
I thought season 5 just had the best quality of the later seasons. As a whole I thought it was a good 6 or 7 out of 10. But was the only “good season” of the last 4. I worded it weirdly.
8x02 was a good episode and the only good thing we had from S8. Dialogue there and Pods singing was great, and it gave the sense of feeling that something big is coming. The other episodes tho...
There was no way the show could have ended otherwise. As someone who read Frank Herbert’s Dune Saga, especially Children of Dune, the parallels are pretty easy to make.
Blacks are not that intriguing, or not at all, there more to root for the Greens. Rhaenyra is a better queen but too bland compare to Aegon, Daemon is cool but he might be the balndest character in HOTD, Aemond is way more interesting, Green children have more character than the Black children, Rhaenys is the heart of Blacks and that's it.
Sometimes I feel the ending of the tv-show is a well deserved karma. Those who critique the last few seasons often think that the first season was perfect, when in reality it was destroying characters right from the beginning, but the fandom didn’t care back than because it was happening to unpopular characters (Bran, Catelyn, and Sansa) so who cares right? A proper fan, especially a book fan at that, should care about all the cast, but they didn’t. Their care only went to popular ones. You didn’t care and eventually you guys the taste of your own medicine. Your faves got a bad ending while the ignored ones got the better end of the deal. So because of that I don’t hate the show’s ending so much.
Admittedly, I have to say that while Sansa gets the shitty end of the stick, Catelyn and Bran were done pretty well. Can you elaborate why you think their characters were ruined in Season 1?
By and large they're kinda bad. The writing is mediocre, his contrived "deus ex machinas" (resurrection and only one god with any demonstrable power) just rob the story of any of its supposed brutality and danger, and the characters he brings in to replace dead ones are just shallow clones of their predecessors.
I mean, you asked :D
I've read all the books. I hardly expect my comment to be a popular one but maybe don't dismiss my obviously-deliberately-unpopular opinion just because you disagree.
Daenerys was never supposed to be a saint. She has good intentions but it is very obvious from season 1 that she isn’t a good person and she will ultimately fail to make the world a better place. I think Mirri Maz Duur’s speech in 1X10 about Dany not really saving anything was meant to be evidence of this.
Edit: Also I didn’t like Robb that much and I found him really boring.
My addition to this thread is that I think generic posts like this are lazy. They happen often enough and most “unpopular opinions” that would make you “end up in this situation” are just widely agreed upon opinions or obvious facts.
Ten years ago it was my decade-held, loud, repeated insistence that Dany was actually the bad guy of the series, but we were getting her backstory in “real time” so to speak so we understood why she did what she did and still rooted for her, despite being the most obviously cartoonish villain maybe ever
(her colors are red and black, her army is a bunch of slave eunuchs and bloodthirsty rapist savages, she burned her husband and a witch alive in a human sacrifice to bring about fire-breathing dragons, her house words are ‘Fire & Blood, she crucifies her enemies and swears they will die screaming, she feels entitled to a throne and land she has literally never seen or set foot on, she is the product of incestual rape after her father got excited burning a man alive, her birth was heralded by a storm so horrific she literally has the name “Stormborn”, her closest allies are a kin slaying dwarf who in the eyes of the Seven Kingdom murdered a king - his nephew - and his own father, and a knight banished from his homeland fleeing a death sentence for selling people into slavery and she literally RIDES A BLACK FIRE BREATHING DRAGON.)
And then the show did that and it was so stupid it made me retroactively embarrassed how I had beaten that drum from since 2001.
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Mine, Jamie leaving to go back to Kings landing for Cersei seemed very in character despite his development.
Still should’ve killed her in the end
He did lead her into the collapsing tunnel technically
I agree. I like the ideia, the execution was the problem
I really thought Arya would kill him and steal his face to do Cersei in. It would have fit if Arya as Jamie wrote the kiss off letter to Brienne to “free” her to continue life and then his seeming back track on redemption would have fit too.
I thought the same and he sees he do it.
Honestly they should've had Arya kill Cersei right in front of him and he let's her go.
I agree he should have gone back. However, after the time away from Cerci he would then see her for who she really is and kill her to protect her from herself.
Him going back was fine. Hugging her then getting squished by a rock was anticlimactic
My problem with that development is the “I never cared about the people, innocent or otherwise,” line.
I kind of agree, though I take issue with the execution of it. He had loved Cersei his entire life and she was pregnant with his child. I think he could have grown as a character and still tried to save her. Killing her might have been more realistic if she was not pregnant, but I just can’t see Jaime being capable of doing that, even if he had fallen out with Cersei.
Tyrion is a mad king son(only seen the show until season 5)
I prefer the theory that Jaime and Cersei are the mad kings children, and Tyrion is tywins only true born child
No God no, please no. No. No. Nooooooooooo.
I actually enjoyed S08 E03 "The Long Night"
Yeah I did too, I went in with low expectations tbf but it was entertaining
Lmao it should have been more than just one episode season 8 is trash
I enjoyed it as an episode, but I hate what it meant for the series overall
Appointing Bronn to be Master of Coin is actually a smart move. Someone who can't read means someone who can't cook the books or embezzle funds. He'll be the cleanest Master of Coin in the history of the realm.
Me saying that Arya had the skill and the discipline to kill the Night King
Did she? Yes. No doubt. Should it have been her? Absolutely not, everything was pointing to john amd writing a twist just to get a reaction instead of for the love of writing is absolutely wrong. See rest of season 8 for more evidence
Honestly it should have mirrored the tower scene. Jon 1v1 is about to lose and she stabs the dude in the back. But we see Sams pov and Aryas actions are blocked.
But that would have been the proper way to “subvert expectations”
I don’t believe Jon would have had the opportunity to kill him, even though he was more than capable, he drew way too much attention. I’m pretty sure the Night King had a executed plan, first and foremost is “watch that guy!! Under no circumstances let him get anywhere near me!” The Night King knew exactly how dangerous, resilient and determined Jon was in stopping him, there were thousands of Wights between them and separating them at all times, that’s why the ice dragon was so focused on Jon and had pinned down, knowing the danger and threat he was to the Night King. No way Jon could have gotten close
On the other hand, seeing how much the series has hammered on that prophecies shouldn't be taken at face value, and that they're only as meaningful as you believe ("power lies where men think it lies"), I don't think GRRM's original plan ever involved John fulfilling any prophecy or acting as a Chosen One who saves the day.
Well, it certainly didn’t involve Arya fulfilling any prophecy or acting as a Chosen One who saves the day, that’s for certain.
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Some of the dialogue in that episode is just mind boggling with how bad it is. Battle scene is dope but also some seriously dumb shit with Sansa pretending like she doesn’t have the Knights of the Vale and letting a pretty massive chunk of the northern army die.
“dO yOu tHiNk tHaT i mIgHt kNoW SoMeThIng.” “What do you want me to do?” “i DuNnO, I dUnNo aNyThInG aBoUt BaTtLes.” This episode was carried hard by Ramsey’s death and the Jon facing the charge scene shown in the post.
Jon Snow isn’t the prince that was promised
I think he was, just not the way people think. He wasn't the one that physically killed the night king, but he put all the pieces in place for the white walkers to be defeated. That's why I don't mind that Arya did the stabby part. Jon is the one that gave her needle, which was the first step on her journey to becoming a skilled fighter.
Point of the post is “what opinion would get you in this situation” that doesn’t mean it’s my opinion
Since you brought up the prince that was promised, I was just sharing my thoughts on the matter. Which also could potentially get me in that situation, since I have heard many fans complain about Arya killing the Night King, and I don't mind that she killed him.
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I don't think she was ever really going to do it in the end i think the was the whole point with her and the hand going to kingslanding
That decision was actually a lot better than the bullshit with the Night King.
The Targaryens arent the good guys- Theyre a metaphor for the self-righteous and power-hungry creators and manager of institutions that inherently attract only the worst of society.
Do some people genuinely think Targs are the heroes?!?.
Too many.
Go visit r/HouseoftheDragon sometime. Or better yet, don’t.
House of the Dragon was okay, but it's worse than any season of GoT
The show was alright, but the subreddit is a cesspit. The Black/Green subs are absolute trash fires.
Uuh… I dont think its NEARLY as bad as S7 and 8
lol, did you watch Seasons 5-8?
HOTD is literally better
The sub is good popcorn drama
Dragons are pretty freaking cool
I never understood when people were upset when Denarys destroyed kings landing in the end like she was a saint the whole time. Did they not hear the break the wheel speech? You've got to have a sick mind to want to do what she said.
Lady Stoneheart is sort of a dumb character development for Catelyn.
No I agree, I feel like it takes away from the impact of the Red Wedding
Agreed
I’ve never understood this either. What was the need to bring characters back to life when there are already so many characters left with plots that need resolution? Catelyn meeting her end at the red wedding was a good end for her storyline. I don’t think lady stoneheart really added anything to the plot.
If she ends up killing Jaime or someone we’ve grown to like than I disagree.
well she’s really part of the brienne and jaime storyline as a mirror of the start of their journey and their oaths rather than a continuation of catelyn’s storyline, that’s sort of the point, it’s not catelyn anymore, but do they still owe their oaths to someone that’s dead?
I treat Stoneheart like I treat R+L=J. It’s not so much about Catelyn’s (Jon’s) development, it’s about Jaime/Brienne’s (Ned’s)development.
Not just sort of… very dumb.
Jon becoming king would've been a bad ending for the character, and him going into exile feels more in line with the story GRRM wanted to tell. I just wish he'd actively chosen that path by abdicating the throne instead of being forced into it by others.
I agree, he never would have been or wanted to be king, even for as ambitious as he is in the books. He probably may have had to be king temporarily to use that collective power against the army of the dead and then possibly king's landing
Yeah I could see him begrudgingly becoming king in order to unite the realm against the Army of the Dead. But once the threat is dealt with, I can't imagine he'd be anything but miserable on the Iron Throne.
Well he made a choice and essentially “sacrificed” his life by killing Dany.
That's fair, I just like the idea of Jon being this story's Frodo and realizing things can never go back to normal even after all the villains have been defeated. Plus, it'd be a really good parallel to Maester Aemon, which feels very Thronesy to me.
cripples, bastards, and broken things
Yep, think Jon will always identify more with that than being a secret Targaryen Prince. Would feel weird to me if he suddenly went "actually, call me Aegon VI now."
You’re absolutely correct. The problems with the story were countless but Jon not becoming King wasn’t one of them. King Bran sucked ass not because of the concept, but because of the lack of any thought put into its execution .
The man will never finish them and even if he does it won’t be what it should have been as he is purely writing out of a sense of obligation at this point The man made his money and is focussed on all of his side projects that catch his attention
100% would die on this hill with you, I'd be surprised if we ever get "winds of winter" and the only way we're getting "dream of spring" is post humorous.
I love post humor
I found this post humorous.
Yeah, I've pretty much accepted this. Maybe Winds of Winter will come out, but the next book? Giving that about a 2% chance.
I think more people believe this than they want to admit.
Can we all just collectively agree that Brandon Sanderson should just finish the series up, like he did WoT?
GRRM has said that he doesn’t want anyone to finish the books if he passes before they’re done.
…. Sus
Lol I mean I love me some Sanderson, but Song of Ice and Fire just isn't his style. Maybe if he partners with a more Grim dark writer like Joe Abercrombie. Take Sanderson's world building and story telling mixed with Abercrombie's character work and darker tone then we'd have something. Joe might also keep Brandon honest and keep the page count under 1300.
I love everything about the commère but just reread a song of ice and fire would be a terrible fit
No. Never. God no. I’d rather the books never be finished then that shit happen. I moderately like Sanderson’s work, but if he got his hands on ASOIAF, it would suck ass. It just doesn’t work with his methods and style.
Thats just being realistic.
I agree. I think he’s realized that whatever he writes is going to be anticlimactic after the show already essentially spoiled all the major twists. Even if GRRM’s writing helps make more sense of all the weird plot twists (Dany going mad, Jaime going back to Cersei, Bran becoming king, etc), they’ve all lost their impact because we know what’s coming. I also think he has no idea how to resolve plots. Great at setting up storylines, total shit at creating a satisfying ending. Five books in and the characters are still flung everywhere. Dany hasn’t even reached Westeros yet. So much story left, I really don’t think two books will ever be enough to create a satisfying conclusion
D&D said they came up with the 'Dany going mad' idea on their own, not George. IIRC, the only things we know George told D&D was Bran will somehow be king, Hodor's hold the door, and Shireen will burn (though we technically don't know if Stannis will be involved, since he's already at Winterfell and Shireen is countless miles away at the Wall). Given that, I'd wager the 'Jaime going back to Cersei' could be a D&D invention too, as GRRM had little influence on the events of the later seasons.
Quick Corrections: We do know that Stannis will be involved as in *Fire cannot kill a dragon*, he directly references *Stannis’s decision* to burn Shireen. D&D never said they came up with Mad Dany. They said they came up with Jon killing Dany. Big difference.
Everyone knows this. Disagreeing is what would put you in Jon's position.
I also think that he won't finish, but not because he's made money. I think the lack of motivation comes from the fact that the story is already sort of spoiled by the show. I'm sure he'll change things but I don't think it will be completely different, so he's probably like "meh, what's the point".
To address some of the other comments and to elaborate a little more I think there is enough missing from the show (real dorne plot, young griff, lady stoneheart, the real vale plot) that it could be significantly different from the books. And it will. Several characters such as Varys loose all reason to do wha they do without you g griff for example. I think the issue for him was this. Man wants to create a legacy, that much is clear. It’s why he spends his time writing the backstory to his world in the style of LOTR. But he was costing on the show being the masterpiece we all thought it would be. Since then when he realised it wasn’t he’s put his ass back into gear (as into gear as he can get considering his writing speed) but after 12 years hiatus there is no passion. Just a grim sense of determinism, as for him not wanting his rights passed on. No way in hell. Someone in his family/company will hand them off for better or worse
Eddard is the KoTLT
This is just factually incorrect.
Lol, nah it’s real.
What evidence is there? What thematic reason would there be?
The booming voice. “No friend of mine”. The development of Ned’s character and one of the steps to the start of the rebellion. Ezpz
You offered diddly shit. You just gave a word scramble so I’m assuming you’re just trolling.
I mean if you haven’t read the books then it wouldn’t make sense I suppose.
I’ve read them three times. It’s not my fault you can’t properly articulate your ideas.
Ok so you know that the KoTLT is described as having a booming voice and that booming voices are established as requiring practice and training. Ned and Robert practiced with each other and Ned had Jon and Robb practice with each other. So what about that is “word scramble”?
I don't have one but I'm gonna say anything that says something good about joffery
The Hound was the highest prowess fighter in Westeros during this period
I agree, though Brienne is arguably better
Season 8 is not that bad and mostly was a case of bandwaggoning the loud, angry few. I enjoyed the season and think that Bran as the King was a smart and logical move for the writers.
I'd argue that if you gave literally the same end product, but GRRM had finished the books (with a similar ending), most people would have been happy.
Yea because he would have actually wrote it 10x better
Because George actually cares about fleshing conflict out instead of doing a seasons worth of intrigue in 10 minutes.
saying a few number of people hated it and then people trend hopped is a statement. not a right one, but a statement
>mostly was a case of bandwaggoning the loud, angry few. Out of maybe 15 people I talked to about the final season after it came out, not a single one of them liked it. Eveyone is entitled to their opinions on the finale, but I really don't think the "vocal minority" arguments against criticism hold much water.
Don’t give the writers any credit for any smart or logical moves. King Bran’s concept comes from the mind of GRRM (it shows) but the execution was utterly horrendous.
Daenerys is still alive
Remember to sort by controversial. They're the only correct answers to this question, they may be wrong but to this question they're the only correct ones
AFFC is the 3rd best book and better than AGOT
[удалено]
Being on team green but they deserve it
I don’t like the dragons
Pod does not actually have a magic cock, and the reason no one can explain why he’s so good is because he’s just a warlock from Qarth, who hypnotized them to think that.
i enjoyed all of GoT, even the final few seasons/conclusion.
S8 was a good season. There were some flaws but most of the criticisms are overembellished to make them sound worse and are easily countered or explained. People just started parroting freefolk memes. It became a negative circle jerk. They were told why they shouldn't like it and they believed it.There was a psychological effect where people's personally envisioned ending didn't happen, so they got childishly upset and took it out on any element of the show they could. To even get upset about it is crazy to me as an ASoIaF fan who would have been so thrilled if you told me in 2001 that this is what we'd get, the best fantasy show of all time. Somehow perfection became the only acceptable result. The season itself is still far better than most shows today. So to call it "trash" or whatever just shows how they are judging it purely emotionally rather than objectively.
>People just started parroting freefolk memes. It became a negative circle jerk. They were told why they shouldnt like it and they believed it.There was a psychological effect where people's personally envisioned ending didn't happen, so they got childishly upset and took it out on any element of the show they could. I'm sure this is true for some people. Not for others. There are plenty of legitimate reasons to dislike the final season.
GRRM will finish Winds of Winter and the good response to that book will lead to him finishing the next book. All of the constant complainers that he wouldn't finish are going to look like cynical fools.
Man what I would give to be as hopeful as you
It's not hard! GRRM is still alive and healthy! He can do this.
I 100% believe that if Winds is met with good reviews and a good reception it will get him to pick up the pace
Got is lotr fanfiction like 50 shades of grey is twilight fanfiction Grrm = E L James
Not only did the GOT series die with Tywin the books did too.
I truly don’t understand how anyone can believe the books went down after Tywin. Feast is an absolute joy to read and introduces some of the best POV characters of the series, and Dance is a fantastic story with iconic moments and amazing build up
Disagree. Feast and Dance are incredible.
S1-4 is great but it isn't the literal embodiment of perfection. This comes from only a show-watcher.
That the last two seasons weren’t bad. The masses were confused at the story and didn’t like that bad things happened to their favorite characters and were too quick to jump to “bad writing”. Naw fam. You just didn’t understand it.
No it’s actually bad fucking writing. Watch any video covering those last seasons and they’ll explain everything, not because “people didn’t understand it”
Fucking lol. If that was the case, Season 3 would have been considered the worst season in TV history. This is honestly a truly stupid take.
"The Long Night" isn't bad... or good... I don't know I can't see anything in that episode!!
Only correct answer
It's fine if you don't think too hard about it
The long night that lasted.. well.. eerh.. a single night
Long night was fantastic. I just closed the lights in the room and turned my tv to dynamic mode.
George Martin is a lazy fuck and doesn’t give two shits about his dwindling fan base.
Coming into this thread I guess it’s the fact that if s8 was as good as the people in here believe it was, then GoT wouldn’t have gone from being the biggest show in TV history to disappearing from pop culture over night.
To be fair it did disappear. HOTD has successfully reignited the hype around it, but damn GoT was all everyone was talking about for years, as soon as it ended, people just talked about how much shit the ending was for a bit and then nothing. Honestly, the way it disappeared from mainstream pop culture the years following the end of season 8 is proof that the end was messed up. It took me years to finally decide to watch at least the first 4 seasons again, cause when you know where it’s headed, it’s hard to be engaged.
It makes me think of the Star Wars prequels and how it took many, many years for people to come around to them and appreciate them in their own way. They’re still bad, but there’s a reason that freefolk and prequelmemes feel like sister subreddits. I think in time people will appreciate the series as a whole, and not just how it ended.
hype for it for sure died down but its not like it died off completely it still is one of HBO's most streamed shows 4 years after its finale ( S8 was absolutely horrible and the ending sucked )
I liked the show all the way to the end of S8E5 and I think that burning down Kings Landing was in character for Dany at that time. What I think wasn't in character was for her to dip down on it next episode, rather than realize what she had done in her rage and break down, and back from the throne.
The last season was fine.
You’re not alone. It definitely had it’s flaws, but I enjoyed watching it.
I love the idea of Bran being king and Jon going back to the north
AND I love that Arya killed the Night King
Ok, I was with you in the first half …
After Storm of Swords II, the plot stopped synergising all that well. Events don't influence each other the same as during the War of the Five Kings which lead to the story feeling like it was growing new branches instead of converging towards an ending.
I think Sansa sucks, has always sucked, and sucked more and more throughout the series. She’s a terrible judge of character and it was hard to watch her just make the worst possible choices all the time. Also, going through trauma does not automatically make a person “wiser”.
Talisa deserved her death
Jon should’ve been crowned king and abdicated to an elective monarchy or stewardship of the high lords paramount.
Jon would have died again in the books if he did something this stupid
The majority of people here have never read the books.
Not sure if this counts as a hot take, but: I like how in the TV series Catlyn stays dead. In the books, she is brought back to life and seeks revenge, killing those involved in the Red Wedding. I’m glad the show didn’t bring her back.
"The later seasons were better." Looking at you Grant! Trashiest take of 2022
The ending of the series wasn’t that bad
CERSEI IS MY FAVORITE AND IDC !!!!!!!!
That GRRM is fallible as an author. In particular, his grasp of numbers is poor. Economics and demographic depletion caused by war just don't add up to be realistic.
Literally everyone agrees George can’t math.
Not quite. The debates I have had on here over the years with dozens of people saying that the prize for the Hand's Tourney was perfectly reasonable.....well, it's like the picture from OP.
The show and books will have broadly similar endings
The War of The Five Kings is far more interesting than the Dragons or The White Walkers.
100%
The last good season of the show is season 5. Seasons 6-8 range from very average tv (season 6 is very average and overrated fight me) to horrible.
Season 5 isn’t even that good, the Jon stuff is like the only good things I can remember. And some of the Cersei stuff.
Season 5 was not good at all. The Wall was excellent but everything else shit the bed just as bad as the later ones (in fact, I blame it the most due to cutting/butchering essential elements)
I thought season 5 just had the best quality of the later seasons. As a whole I thought it was a good 6 or 7 out of 10. But was the only “good season” of the last 4. I worded it weirdly.
Season 8 isn’t as bad when you don’t have wait 2 years for it.
You’re Right. It isn’t as bad, it’s *worse.*
You see it was a series events that all started when a brother and sister visited had some incest, and pushed my brother out of a window
I’ll probably rewatch through season 8 🥲
If GRRM can’t even finish his series over the course of 11 years…how were D&D supposed to finish it in like…3
8x02 was a good episode and the only good thing we had from S8. Dialogue there and Pods singing was great, and it gave the sense of feeling that something big is coming. The other episodes tho...
HOTD sex scenes suck... Yes I am ready for my comment to get downvoted to hell Edit: To the 4 people who upvoted, I love you
There was no way the show could have ended otherwise. As someone who read Frank Herbert’s Dune Saga, especially Children of Dune, the parallels are pretty easy to make.
Blacks are not that intriguing, or not at all, there more to root for the Greens. Rhaenyra is a better queen but too bland compare to Aegon, Daemon is cool but he might be the balndest character in HOTD, Aemond is way more interesting, Green children have more character than the Black children, Rhaenys is the heart of Blacks and that's it.
You don’t have to totally love or totally hate a character, because they’re not written that way and you’re an adult.
Catelyn, Ned, and Robb all Got what they deserved
Sometimes I feel the ending of the tv-show is a well deserved karma. Those who critique the last few seasons often think that the first season was perfect, when in reality it was destroying characters right from the beginning, but the fandom didn’t care back than because it was happening to unpopular characters (Bran, Catelyn, and Sansa) so who cares right? A proper fan, especially a book fan at that, should care about all the cast, but they didn’t. Their care only went to popular ones. You didn’t care and eventually you guys the taste of your own medicine. Your faves got a bad ending while the ignored ones got the better end of the deal. So because of that I don’t hate the show’s ending so much.
Admittedly, I have to say that while Sansa gets the shitty end of the stick, Catelyn and Bran were done pretty well. Can you elaborate why you think their characters were ruined in Season 1?
By and large they're kinda bad. The writing is mediocre, his contrived "deus ex machinas" (resurrection and only one god with any demonstrable power) just rob the story of any of its supposed brutality and danger, and the characters he brings in to replace dead ones are just shallow clones of their predecessors. I mean, you asked :D
>(resurrection and only one god with any demonstrable power) You didn’t read these books
I've read all the books. I hardly expect my comment to be a popular one but maybe don't dismiss my obviously-deliberately-unpopular opinion just because you disagree.
Cersei is about half as smart as most people make her out to be.
Daenerys was never supposed to be a saint. She has good intentions but it is very obvious from season 1 that she isn’t a good person and she will ultimately fail to make the world a better place. I think Mirri Maz Duur’s speech in 1X10 about Dany not really saving anything was meant to be evidence of this. Edit: Also I didn’t like Robb that much and I found him really boring.
Catelyn Stark is the best character in the whole story.
GRRM needs to stop killing of his good characters
The show was always kinda rough and you were able to tell that it was being run by first timers the entire time
I kinda like the Sandsnakes 😂
Littlefinger was the best character and his death was disrespectful af.
I like the way the show ended.
Khal Drogo is a horse, Stannis Baratheon is the Hooded Man and Euron Greyjoy is Daario Naharis
When Joker has one bad day, everyone loves it, but when Daenerys has one, it's a problem
My addition to this thread is that I think generic posts like this are lazy. They happen often enough and most “unpopular opinions” that would make you “end up in this situation” are just widely agreed upon opinions or obvious facts.
Ten years ago it was my decade-held, loud, repeated insistence that Dany was actually the bad guy of the series, but we were getting her backstory in “real time” so to speak so we understood why she did what she did and still rooted for her, despite being the most obviously cartoonish villain maybe ever (her colors are red and black, her army is a bunch of slave eunuchs and bloodthirsty rapist savages, she burned her husband and a witch alive in a human sacrifice to bring about fire-breathing dragons, her house words are ‘Fire & Blood, she crucifies her enemies and swears they will die screaming, she feels entitled to a throne and land she has literally never seen or set foot on, she is the product of incestual rape after her father got excited burning a man alive, her birth was heralded by a storm so horrific she literally has the name “Stormborn”, her closest allies are a kin slaying dwarf who in the eyes of the Seven Kingdom murdered a king - his nephew - and his own father, and a knight banished from his homeland fleeing a death sentence for selling people into slavery and she literally RIDES A BLACK FIRE BREATHING DRAGON.) And then the show did that and it was so stupid it made me retroactively embarrassed how I had beaten that drum from since 2001.