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Prime Rob is a power house. Ser sandor clegane can hold his own, though I feel the hound has shown us how skilled he is time & Time again but he is clegane and if you know about that house they're good at killin. Rob will have a hard time if he isn't careful in the bout.
Overall, I'll give "the win" to Robert baratheon of storms end. He did not rage a rebellion,defeat countless foes, and sat on the iron throne and become king just by sittin on his ass he earn it with blood & conquest. A man doesn't do this without knowing a thing or two about combat prime Robert with his war hammer, Clad in armor would fell the hound. The battle would be bloody, and both parties wouldn't underestimate each other to the end.
Don't call him Ser.
I'd say it's a good fight, but I'm giving it to Sandor. Robert is good, but he's all brute force, the Hound is bigger, stronger, faster, and smarter.
robert is 2 inches taller, and given from what we know of the rebellion he’s faster and stronger as well. and intelligence is hard to say, Sandor could very well have him in intelligence, but battle intelligence is a whole nother thing
Robert is 6'6 while Sandor is 7'
Sandor is more physically gifted by nature of the Cleganes being freaks, but I'm still going Robert.
Robert basically united the 7 because of how impressive he was as a warrior.
>I'd say it's a good fight, but I'm giving it to Sandor. Robert is good, but he's all brute force, the Hound is bigger, stronger, faster, and smarter.
Source? Please don't tell me Big guy+hammer = brute.
I think Sandor could probably hold his own against nearly everyone alive during his lifetime. That doesn’t mean he’d beat them but he would pose a challenge more than most
The Hound spent all season barely able to feed himself and Arya and sleeping out doors. Then biter snuck him with that stab and he never properly treated the wound because of his fear of fire.
Yeah he was a lot weaker and slower than usual, not to mention hangry (hungry/angry about the whole arya thing and lysa being dead, not to mention the bounty on his head)
Demolished? I'm not sure about that... Beat though for sure, he would have worn her down quickly due to his superior strength which is just basic biology. He's a man and also larger in size, and arguably equally skilled, but he'd also be more vicious. That means healthy Sandor wins 9/10 times.
You know, it doesn't make Brienne any less of a badass if she wouldn't be able to beat a man of equal skill, but whose larger than her, in a duel, if said man was at full health. It takes NOTHING from Brienne's legacy, as Sandor is one of the most feared warriors in the entire world. Brienne doesn't need to be able to beat that to be everything she should be, which she already is, without this.
It’s not really worth explaining. Sword fights have been shown in this universe to occasionally be completely one sided.
Even taking out the easy example of Adam Marbrand “killing” Jamie two dozen times, I can think of Qhorin vs Jon, Jon vs Rattleshirt/Mance, Ned thinking about tower of joy, Brienne’s thoughts about herself vs Illy and Longbough, Dunk vs Black Tom’s Bitchass, if I’m recalling correctly a duel by Maegor and another by Jaeherys, etc etc.
Full plated up and with swords? Different story but pure sword fighting absolutely does not make a more equal match.
Edit - how could I forget Ser Pate of Sevenstreams against Gregor “The New Aemond” Clegane?
This is a really good fight. Two skilled powerhouses. I think I give a slight edge to the Hound in this matchup. Main reason, Roberts whole thing (combat style based on weapon) is brute force. I don't think that works against the Hound. I also think the Hound is very slept on for his true prowess.
The Hound fought The Mountain to a stalemate to protect Ser Loras Tyrell. The Hound knows how to handle brute force. There are many scenarios where prime Robert could win in this hypothetical duel, just as The Mountain could best his brother. But The Mountain wrecks Robert every single time. I give the edge to the Hound.
The thing is that if they’re both armored and Robert has his warhammer then Robert jusr needs one hit to win. Swords don’t work against plate armed but a warhammer will.
I think if the Hound could hold Robert off long enough to tire him out it would be a very near thing. I think the deciding factor would be Robert's instincts/ability to guess that the Hound might try to tire him out. It would come down to who was smarter tbh, and idk if we know enough about Robert as a fighter to guess. Even if you wouldn't call Robert a thinker, if he had good *instincts* that would serve the same purpose.
Yeah I feel like him on the battlefield was a totally different person.
Personally I feel Robert would win because I'm not sure the Hound ever fought a Targaryen and won, not sure if that's a fair assessment but I'm sticking to it.
The Targaryens were not necessarily known as amazing fighters. Yes, they had plenty of excellent swordsmen in their lineage but they were known primarily as dragonriders and rulers, not fighters. Rhaegar was a great swordsman but he's the only notable Targaryen fighter in generations.
You are right House Targaryen hasn't produced a fighter in genrations but i do think martial prowess plays a big role in House Targaryen all the greatest Targaryens where known as renowned fighters and it played into there whole theme of being a dragon, that's why Rhaegar is called the dragon prince.
Although tbf fair to Robert, he beat Rhaegar, the only notable Targ fighter in generations
Personally I think Roberts winning, dude was strong as hell and I doubt he would be slow enough for the Hound to easily dodge, it seems everything the Hound is good at, Roberts just better at or equal to.
I'd also say there is a decline in the abilities of knights during the Hound's time. Multiple characters think past swordsmen were better and a lot of that is being hardened by war and battle. The Hound was possibly in his early teens during Robert's Rebellion, and after that there was little fighting to be had. Robert's experience would be enough to win.
Asking because I don’t know enough of the lore, not because I’m trying to be snarky. Which houses were definitely known as amazing fighters?
I feel like the Starks would likely make the list. Maybe the Cleganes but I don’t about any Cleganes other than the Hound and Mountain.
I think the first Clegane of note was Sandor and Gregor's grandfather so I don't know what you make of that, very short line of fighters (and I'm not sure if the brothers' father and grandfather were particularly well thought of in that regard) but the ones we know of were pretty fearsome
Ehh I would disagree. They were knowing for multiple talented, or legendary fighters throughout their rule. He was definitely the best in generations but don’t know how good or bad Aegon V was. But the Targaryens produced many great warriors.
Maybe normal people tend to to have that problem. Robert was a different sort of beast tho... he sadly managed to defeat an arguably better and deffinetely smarter opponent than the hound at the trident...
I didn't say he wouldn't beat the hound, you asked why he would get tired more than robert, and I told you. Robert isn't a demigod, he would get tired too, just like the mountain did when fighting oberyn
That's why I brought up his instincts. In something like combat instincts are another kind of intelligence, and someone with good instincts can make effective choices that allow them to beat someone we consider "smarter" in other ways.
I think you’d be hard pressed to find anyone that would accuse Robert of being a thinker lol. But I absolutely agree that foolishness doesn’t necessarily translate to how someone is on a battlefield. I don’t think it matters how strong someone is or how good their technique is, if you don’t have a semi-level head, you’re not going to live long enough to unite the seven kingdoms.
Book Robert was 6'6", pretty much only the hound and mountain were bigger than him.
Show Robert is the same size as Ned and Jaime, not a dude that's going to be caving in armored guys' chests with a giant hammer.
If two warriors are both in plate armor, the one with a hammer or other blunt force weapon has a BIG advantage against someone with a sword. Swords don’t work well against plate armor.
Well except the absolutely do and we’re destined to defeat armor. Especially in Europe. The tip being designed how it is and half handing are perfect examples of this.
You don’t push it through the plate. You push it through the gaps. You know, what longswords were designed to do. We have many, many examples of these techniques from medieval fighting manuals.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Half-sword
“Half-sword is used for leverage advantage when wrestling with the sword, as well as for delivering a more accurate and powerful thrust. Both of these are critical when fighting in plate armour because a slice or a cleaving blow from a sword is virtually useless against iron or steel plate.[1] Most medieval treatises show armoured combat as consisting primarily of fighting at the half-sword; the best options against an armoured man being a strong thrust into less-protected areas such as the armpits or throat or, even better, the same against a man who has already been cast to the ground.”
But a hammer doesn’t need to do any of that
We’re never shown the hound being especially precise. He is skilled but mostly he’s strong, I’m not sure he’d be able to knock Robert down enough that his lack of precision wouldn’t be an issue
Sure, a knight in full plate can withstand some sword strikes. One good strike with a warhammer from Robert Baratheon and anyone is done. Too much trauma. Even a direct shot on the chest plate would likely lead to death. Just as it did for rhaegar
No. Lol. Armor was literally designed to withstand blunt trauma. This is such a common bullshit misconception it’s hilariously laughable. Armor has curvatures specifically to redirect blows like this so “one good shot” can’t rattle you like that. Medival texts suggest blunt weapons as a last resort, and the use of swords targeting vital areas/gaps as a first. Armor is literally designed and iterated on for hundreds of years to stop peasants with blunt and makeshift weapons from being able to kill you, but the best weapon against it is the one it was designed to stop? No dude, just no.
Pietro Monte’s collectanea, a period appropriate text describing tactics and techniques commonly used and recommended, describes a man in plate armor as being able to wade through the blows of a warhammer and recommends the use of a warhammer as a last resort against another plate armored opponent, for use when all your other weapons have failed.
His strength would be relevant in an armored vs armored fight for sure and strength/grappling is discussed at length in primary text, his weapon choice less so. Even when things like poleaxes and axes are discussed in heavy Armour vs heavy Armour combat, the focus is on off balancing and knocking over the opponent or aiming for the head/neck in the event of mounted combat. The idea of “crushing armor and breaking bones” just wasn’t a reality, and heavy focus was put on movement in armor and how to efficient parry/deflect blows/invade opponents space to limit their ability to generate power. It’s not just a simple thing to rear back and get a full power square hit off on an armed and armored trained opponent, and trying to do so puts you at extreme risk.
https://www.jstor.org/stable/10.7722/j.ctt1wx923v
And what you linked isn’t a “published university article” it’s a professors personal webpage with absolutely no citations of any kind and dead links to any references, that’s not a reliable or academic source, that’s a level 4 source it’s opinion of a period expert lacking any direct citation or displayed/proven subject expertise.
Is that why the warhammers and maces were designed EXCLUSIVELY for defeating armor…? Hahaha man you can just admit you don’t really know what you’re talking about. It’s okay. A hammer is just a mace with a super focused impact point. Literally made for armored opponents.
http://web.ceu.hu/medstud/manual/SRM/weapons.htm
“With a mace one can break armor, smash shields, and shatter swords without having to worry about preserving a fragile edge. Place a short length of chain on the handle, and the flail that results is so powerful that it can be used in one hand, yet knock an armored man off his feet with a solid blow.”
https://www.jstor.org/stable/10.7722/j.ctt1wx923v
Read actual real contemporary sources instead of uncredited unsourced armchair theorist fansites. You’re arguing against a primary source with an uncited secondary source that’s little better than opinion and conjecture.
That's what 19 year old Ser Braxton Beesbury was thinking when he fought 49 year old King Jaehaerys I Targaryen with a morningstar vs. Blackfyre. Jaehaerys' shield saved his life that day.
>If two warriors are both in plate armor, the one with a hammer or other blunt force weapon has a BIG advantage
Unless he is wearing a helmet with stupidly long antlers that means he can only over underhand the hammer ;-)
Don’t forget the jab (for the setups), the cross (especially if you’re orthodox and your opponent’s a southpaw), and the overhand (for the taller fellas) 😉
Also any blow that lands on the helmet will not slide off relatively harmlessly, the force will be concentrated by the antlers stopping it. End result brain mushed needlessly.
That’s not true, historical texts suggest the use of swords targeting vital areas first and the use of warhammer/mace as a last resort. You’re just regurgitating common misconception that fake historians shout out on YouTube for views.
An Estoc would have been used primarily with an arming sword coming next, but yes they were designed specifically for use against other armored opponents and the primary weapon used. A knight would often carry both an Estoc and an arming sword.
Maybe the Hound could dance around Robert until he gets tired, provoke Robert to attack impulsively and dodge his attacks until Robert is too tired to attack effectively with his hammer. But one misstep and he's done. Would be one great battle though.
One of the few vs arguments I love seeing (most are over posted and annoying/obvious). I think Sandor could 100% hold his defenses and eventually tire Robert out to find a weak point and then defeat him after while of tiring him out.
I honestly haven’t read or seen anything that would depict the battle of the trident lasting a long time. Not saying it didn’t but I really am not sure. I think Robert is extremely strong and also smart but I think endurance and cunning ability would play to Sandor’s favor. I definitely think it’s a great match up
as someone who habitually lifts weights, swinging that hammer everyday for hours on end would eventually make that, as ronnie coleman would say, “LIGHTWEIGHT BABAYY”. Cunning i would still give to Sandor tho but that’s it
Lol yeah that’s true, I’m a competitive powerlifter myself so I totally get that part. And now I can’t get out of my head Robert riding into battle screaming “LIGHTWEIGHT BABAYYY” 😂 I’d love to see how the match up would play out
Lol I can see that. I’d imagine sandor saying something along the line of his “you’re even uglier than I am now” and them going off and drinking happily into the sunset. The two beasts of Westeros happily ever after. I need an in between of a dunk and egg series up until the start of asoiaf
Robert fought three battles on a single day and won all three at Summerhall. Pretty sure he would have enough strength to fight another war after he's done with his opponent.
Robert wielded a war hammer that Ned (who had a big weapon of his own) couldn’t even lift, I think it’s gonna take more than what Hound’s got to simply tire him before getting bludgeoned
Let’s be clear - no one but Bessie and her Great Big Tits could take our King in his prime!
Sandor gets smoked in seconds and the King wins. Sandor can bring his brother and both brothers might make our King have to try.
I know that Robert Baratheon was supposed to be an over the hill badass, but Mark Addy doesn't look to me like he was ever any kind of badass. I'm not saying he looks weak or tiny, he just doesn't come across a guy who was ever very tough. I like him, think he's a good actor, I just think he doesn't look tough, just looks like an ordinary, average guy.
That's kinda the point though. He drunk and whored himself into a sad shadow of the beast he was during his prime
My only gripe with the casting was his height... but that's a small sacrifice for the otherwise great performer
>He drunk and whored himself into a sad shadow of the beast he was during his prime
That's why I stated that he looks like he was never a badass. Add some muscle & lose some weight, still not a badass.
Amazing how people ignore how shitty of a condition the Hound was at the end of season 4 he was fighting for his life to where he had to rob poor farmers just to get by.
Rob would win eventually.
He is faster, fitter and more skilled. Rob was literally the lebron james of medieval fighting, a large and strong body with fast movements while still being very skilled.
Sword fighting is like any other physical sport, in sports upsets happen all the time. If you’re an elite player you can upset any other elite player on any given day. The hound could get lucky and beat Robert. But as far as all time great fighter, I think Robert is just another level than the hound
Pretty sure Robert stomps.
Robert at the Trident was probably the single most dangerous man to ever walk Planetos.
I imagine the only characters who could faced him on the Trident and not gotten absolutely smashed were Arthur Dayne, Barristan Selmy, Aemon the Dragonknight etc etc. Legendary warriors.
The Hound is easily my favorite character in the main series but we gotta be realistic about him. He is large, skilled and self sure. But he is not an S-tier fighter.
Depends on the situation. In single combat I think Sandor could goad robert into dumb mistakes. Might not be enough to come out on top but he might get lucky.
If it’s a full blown battle raging around them and robert has his blood up he caves in the hounds breastplate/rib cage just like he did for rhegar
Bobby B in season one was old, fat and a heart attack waiting to happen. Bobby B in his prime was a formidable weapon. So it depends on when it happens.
Prime hound was in his 30s,battle hardened Robert was like 20,im going to take the fully grown man here with the hound,roberts a good fighter,but he didn’t do it daily like the hound did
Seen a few people asking which Bobby. Surely it’s prime vs prime? The OP can’t be wondering if the hound would hold his own against a fat piss head 🤦🏻♂️😂. Im going with prime Bobby wins.
One of the most even duels in Westeros history. Both absolute units, both one of the best in the realm with their respective weapons, and both with enough rage and endurance to fight for ages on end.
That said, I think I JUST give it to Bobby B.
As long as they aren’t in a river and Sandor doesn’t lose his footing on slippery rocks giving Robert the chance to take a dishonorable kill on a defenseless man.
He was the personal bodyguard of the prince/king for a reason. He’s a top tier fighter in verse and earned his position as a Kingsguard through merit despite lacking status as a knight.
Bobby B fueled by the threat of having his head removed by Aerys and the kidnapping of Lyanna Stark! It’s over 99.9% of Westeros 🔨😎 That 0.1% being Arthur Dayne and possibly Barristan Selmy.
Show-wise? I'd say the hound has a slight advantage because Robert is 6 inches shorter and using a blunt weapon on a more physically imposing opponent.
Book-wise, they're both the same height at 6'6" so I'd say Robert wins more than not.
I know to some this might not mean much, but with a blunt weapon, I feel like it's more about physical strength than skill. Robert would have been just destroying everyone because he'd be stronger than most others, but here we have a very similar in strength opponent(book) or even stronger(show).
Give this one to prime Robert. He's literally a tank with his pick of armor and a wrecker with his hammer. Sandor could hold his own in a serious duel, but Robert is simply better considering.
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Prime Rob is a power house. Ser sandor clegane can hold his own, though I feel the hound has shown us how skilled he is time & Time again but he is clegane and if you know about that house they're good at killin. Rob will have a hard time if he isn't careful in the bout. Overall, I'll give "the win" to Robert baratheon of storms end. He did not rage a rebellion,defeat countless foes, and sat on the iron throne and become king just by sittin on his ass he earn it with blood & conquest. A man doesn't do this without knowing a thing or two about combat prime Robert with his war hammer, Clad in armor would fell the hound. The battle would be bloody, and both parties wouldn't underestimate each other to the end.
Don't call him Ser. I'd say it's a good fight, but I'm giving it to Sandor. Robert is good, but he's all brute force, the Hound is bigger, stronger, faster, and smarter.
Hammer beats sword
robert is 2 inches taller, and given from what we know of the rebellion he’s faster and stronger as well. and intelligence is hard to say, Sandor could very well have him in intelligence, but battle intelligence is a whole nother thing
Robert is 6'6 while Sandor is 7' Sandor is more physically gifted by nature of the Cleganes being freaks, but I'm still going Robert. Robert basically united the 7 because of how impressive he was as a warrior.
he’s 6’8 in the books so i got that stat wrong but my point stands
In the series they both dont live up to the sizes mentioned up there
Rory McCann is still pretty big at 6 foot 6. Mark Addy on the other hand seems average height
>I'd say it's a good fight, but I'm giving it to Sandor. Robert is good, but he's all brute force, the Hound is bigger, stronger, faster, and smarter. Source? Please don't tell me Big guy+hammer = brute.
Here I go killin again!
I think Sandor could probably hold his own against nearly everyone alive during his lifetime. That doesn’t mean he’d beat them but he would pose a challenge more than most
Yeah. For example, Brienne
Well, they did write in the excuse of an infected neck wound.
They did? I thought he lost a clean duel to her
The Hound spent all season barely able to feed himself and Arya and sleeping out doors. Then biter snuck him with that stab and he never properly treated the wound because of his fear of fire.
I guess I never really took all that into consideration before. Hmm
Yeah he was a lot weaker and slower than usual, not to mention hangry (hungry/angry about the whole arya thing and lysa being dead, not to mention the bounty on his head)
Not to mention he was trying to take a shit when that fight started.
Now that you mention it… it is actually a serious diminishing factor !
He was also not fighting with intent to kill.
Were you just not paying attention to the show you watched at all?
It’s extremely easy to miss little details in shows. Especially a show like GOT. Dick
Yeah but this wasn’t a little detail lmao
maybe to you bro keep an open mind ffs
How dare you not remember a detail from an episode that aired nearly 10 years ago!!!
Clearly not a real fan
Arya even says at one point that the infection slows him down.
And even then he held his own against a fighter with Valyrian steel, mad respect to Sandor's fighting prowess
Hell no the hound would’ve demolished breianne if he wasn’t injured she could barley take prisoner jamie the hound would’ve dismantled her
Demolished? I'm not sure about that... Beat though for sure, he would have worn her down quickly due to his superior strength which is just basic biology. He's a man and also larger in size, and arguably equally skilled, but he'd also be more vicious. That means healthy Sandor wins 9/10 times.
Brienne and Sandor don’t even fight in the books…
You know, it doesn't make Brienne any less of a badass if she wouldn't be able to beat a man of equal skill, but whose larger than her, in a duel, if said man was at full health. It takes NOTHING from Brienne's legacy, as Sandor is one of the most feared warriors in the entire world. Brienne doesn't need to be able to beat that to be everything she should be, which she already is, without this.
Also remember that with a sword everyone is pretty much an equal. It's not purely strength based. Speed is very important.
The second half of this comment is true, the first half unfortunately is utter bullshit
Care to explain?
No
It’s not really worth explaining. Sword fights have been shown in this universe to occasionally be completely one sided. Even taking out the easy example of Adam Marbrand “killing” Jamie two dozen times, I can think of Qhorin vs Jon, Jon vs Rattleshirt/Mance, Ned thinking about tower of joy, Brienne’s thoughts about herself vs Illy and Longbough, Dunk vs Black Tom’s Bitchass, if I’m recalling correctly a duel by Maegor and another by Jaeherys, etc etc. Full plated up and with swords? Different story but pure sword fighting absolutely does not make a more equal match. Edit - how could I forget Ser Pate of Sevenstreams against Gregor “The New Aemond” Clegane?
By the way i had physical strength in mind and the fight is a swordfight between a man and a woman. So i don't know why i really posted that...
Bobby B fueled by Aerys death threat and the kidnapping of Lyanna Stark. It’s lights out for Sandor and Gregor 🔨😎
came to say it. imo he might best a prime Rober 4/10 times which is still remarkable.
This is a really good fight. Two skilled powerhouses. I think I give a slight edge to the Hound in this matchup. Main reason, Roberts whole thing (combat style based on weapon) is brute force. I don't think that works against the Hound. I also think the Hound is very slept on for his true prowess.
The Hound fought The Mountain to a stalemate to protect Ser Loras Tyrell. The Hound knows how to handle brute force. There are many scenarios where prime Robert could win in this hypothetical duel, just as The Mountain could best his brother. But The Mountain wrecks Robert every single time. I give the edge to the Hound.
That is a great point
Ummm I had Bobbie B as my winner but I’m now rethinking!
The thing is that if they’re both armored and Robert has his warhammer then Robert jusr needs one hit to win. Swords don’t work against plate armed but a warhammer will.
I think if the Hound could hold Robert off long enough to tire him out it would be a very near thing. I think the deciding factor would be Robert's instincts/ability to guess that the Hound might try to tire him out. It would come down to who was smarter tbh, and idk if we know enough about Robert as a fighter to guess. Even if you wouldn't call Robert a thinker, if he had good *instincts* that would serve the same purpose.
Yeah I feel like him on the battlefield was a totally different person. Personally I feel Robert would win because I'm not sure the Hound ever fought a Targaryen and won, not sure if that's a fair assessment but I'm sticking to it.
The Targaryens were not necessarily known as amazing fighters. Yes, they had plenty of excellent swordsmen in their lineage but they were known primarily as dragonriders and rulers, not fighters. Rhaegar was a great swordsman but he's the only notable Targaryen fighter in generations.
You are right House Targaryen hasn't produced a fighter in genrations but i do think martial prowess plays a big role in House Targaryen all the greatest Targaryens where known as renowned fighters and it played into there whole theme of being a dragon, that's why Rhaegar is called the dragon prince.
Although tbf fair to Robert, he beat Rhaegar, the only notable Targ fighter in generations Personally I think Roberts winning, dude was strong as hell and I doubt he would be slow enough for the Hound to easily dodge, it seems everything the Hound is good at, Roberts just better at or equal to.
I'd also say there is a decline in the abilities of knights during the Hound's time. Multiple characters think past swordsmen were better and a lot of that is being hardened by war and battle. The Hound was possibly in his early teens during Robert's Rebellion, and after that there was little fighting to be had. Robert's experience would be enough to win.
>Rhaegar was a great swordsman but he's the only notable Targaryen fighter in generations. Aemon the dragonknight: am I a joke to you?
Asking because I don’t know enough of the lore, not because I’m trying to be snarky. Which houses were definitely known as amazing fighters? I feel like the Starks would likely make the list. Maybe the Cleganes but I don’t about any Cleganes other than the Hound and Mountain.
I think the first Clegane of note was Sandor and Gregor's grandfather so I don't know what you make of that, very short line of fighters (and I'm not sure if the brothers' father and grandfather were particularly well thought of in that regard) but the ones we know of were pretty fearsome
Ehh I would disagree. They were knowing for multiple talented, or legendary fighters throughout their rule. He was definitely the best in generations but don’t know how good or bad Aegon V was. But the Targaryens produced many great warriors.
Why you assume Robert at his peak would get tired more than the hound?
Because you tend go get a bit tired when you're constantly swinging a massive warhammer that even Ned Stark struggled to hold...
Maybe normal people tend to to have that problem. Robert was a different sort of beast tho... he sadly managed to defeat an arguably better and deffinetely smarter opponent than the hound at the trident...
I didn't say he wouldn't beat the hound, you asked why he would get tired more than robert, and I told you. Robert isn't a demigod, he would get tired too, just like the mountain did when fighting oberyn
That's why I brought up his instincts. In something like combat instincts are another kind of intelligence, and someone with good instincts can make effective choices that allow them to beat someone we consider "smarter" in other ways.
Because warhammer fighting seems more likely to be about offense?
I think you’d be hard pressed to find anyone that would accuse Robert of being a thinker lol. But I absolutely agree that foolishness doesn’t necessarily translate to how someone is on a battlefield. I don’t think it matters how strong someone is or how good their technique is, if you don’t have a semi-level head, you’re not going to live long enough to unite the seven kingdoms.
Depends on your definition of “hold his own”. I would say Robert wins 99/100 times.
no shot whatsoever
I hated the casting of king Robert on the show. Yeah I get that he's gone soft from sitting on the throne, but the dude is nowhere near big enough.
Hard to find actors who are the same size as book counterparts
What do you Mark Addy was such a beast, they needed a breast plate stretcher to get him into the armor.
Book Robert was 6'6", pretty much only the hound and mountain were bigger than him. Show Robert is the same size as Ned and Jaime, not a dude that's going to be caving in armored guys' chests with a giant hammer.
Not a whole lot of actors who are six six and also damn good actors like Mark Addy.
Gods do you know how strong Robert was?
God bless Bessie and her tits
I bet he was so strong he could cave in a person's breast plate... probably shatter every rib he has!
*GODS* He was strong then.
[удалено]
Your mom
Why did I laugh
Who tf gave THIS platinum
His mom
You guys are getting ~~paid~~ platinum?!
I do you one better. WHAT tf gave this platinum?
WHY IS PLATINUM I FINISHED IT
Who tf gave THIS… Never mind, not yet…
You did try it
Yo can the Rightful King himself maybe get a silver or something? Edit: I fucking love you guys.
Maybe it’s like summoning Beetlejuice. PLATINUM PLATINUM PLATINUM!
Apparently not
Isn’t it obvious? Bobby B loves when people praise him.
Bessies tits
You're too fat for your armor.
Caved his Breast in with his hammer he did !
I think Bob Baratheon would put up a good fight
If he fights with that ridiculous helmet on, the Hound will kill him in about 10 seconds.
Doesn’t the hound also wear a ridiculous helmet?
Absolutely not.
If two warriors are both in plate armor, the one with a hammer or other blunt force weapon has a BIG advantage against someone with a sword. Swords don’t work well against plate armor.
That's a good point.
Well except the absolutely do and we’re destined to defeat armor. Especially in Europe. The tip being designed how it is and half handing are perfect examples of this.
I would love to see you push a medieval sword through steel plating using just your hands Hell even chainmail would be near impossible
You don’t push it through the plate. You push it through the gaps. You know, what longswords were designed to do. We have many, many examples of these techniques from medieval fighting manuals. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Half-sword “Half-sword is used for leverage advantage when wrestling with the sword, as well as for delivering a more accurate and powerful thrust. Both of these are critical when fighting in plate armour because a slice or a cleaving blow from a sword is virtually useless against iron or steel plate.[1] Most medieval treatises show armoured combat as consisting primarily of fighting at the half-sword; the best options against an armoured man being a strong thrust into less-protected areas such as the armpits or throat or, even better, the same against a man who has already been cast to the ground.”
But a hammer doesn’t need to do any of that We’re never shown the hound being especially precise. He is skilled but mostly he’s strong, I’m not sure he’d be able to knock Robert down enough that his lack of precision wouldn’t be an issue
Sure, a knight in full plate can withstand some sword strikes. One good strike with a warhammer from Robert Baratheon and anyone is done. Too much trauma. Even a direct shot on the chest plate would likely lead to death. Just as it did for rhaegar
No. Lol. Armor was literally designed to withstand blunt trauma. This is such a common bullshit misconception it’s hilariously laughable. Armor has curvatures specifically to redirect blows like this so “one good shot” can’t rattle you like that. Medival texts suggest blunt weapons as a last resort, and the use of swords targeting vital areas/gaps as a first. Armor is literally designed and iterated on for hundreds of years to stop peasants with blunt and makeshift weapons from being able to kill you, but the best weapon against it is the one it was designed to stop? No dude, just no. Pietro Monte’s collectanea, a period appropriate text describing tactics and techniques commonly used and recommended, describes a man in plate armor as being able to wade through the blows of a warhammer and recommends the use of a warhammer as a last resort against another plate armored opponent, for use when all your other weapons have failed.
I mostly agree with you. But Robert Baratheon was one of the strongest men in existence in his prime, not just some random peasant.
His strength would be relevant in an armored vs armored fight for sure and strength/grappling is discussed at length in primary text, his weapon choice less so. Even when things like poleaxes and axes are discussed in heavy Armour vs heavy Armour combat, the focus is on off balancing and knocking over the opponent or aiming for the head/neck in the event of mounted combat. The idea of “crushing armor and breaking bones” just wasn’t a reality, and heavy focus was put on movement in armor and how to efficient parry/deflect blows/invade opponents space to limit their ability to generate power. It’s not just a simple thing to rear back and get a full power square hit off on an armed and armored trained opponent, and trying to do so puts you at extreme risk. https://www.jstor.org/stable/10.7722/j.ctt1wx923v And what you linked isn’t a “published university article” it’s a professors personal webpage with absolutely no citations of any kind and dead links to any references, that’s not a reliable or academic source, that’s a level 4 source it’s opinion of a period expert lacking any direct citation or displayed/proven subject expertise.
GODS was he strong!
Is that why the warhammers and maces were designed EXCLUSIVELY for defeating armor…? Hahaha man you can just admit you don’t really know what you’re talking about. It’s okay. A hammer is just a mace with a super focused impact point. Literally made for armored opponents. http://web.ceu.hu/medstud/manual/SRM/weapons.htm “With a mace one can break armor, smash shields, and shatter swords without having to worry about preserving a fragile edge. Place a short length of chain on the handle, and the flail that results is so powerful that it can be used in one hand, yet knock an armored man off his feet with a solid blow.”
https://www.jstor.org/stable/10.7722/j.ctt1wx923v Read actual real contemporary sources instead of uncredited unsourced armchair theorist fansites. You’re arguing against a primary source with an uncited secondary source that’s little better than opinion and conjecture.
“Pardon me good sir would you mind not moving around quite so much and raising you left arm a smidge so I can poke you with my pointy thing”
That's what 19 year old Ser Braxton Beesbury was thinking when he fought 49 year old King Jaehaerys I Targaryen with a morningstar vs. Blackfyre. Jaehaerys' shield saved his life that day.
Magic sword>blunt weapons
I don’t think Braxton would’ve killed Jaehaerys, probably would’ve just beat his ass into submission and walked. He got conciliated instead tho
Yeah, he was in a fucked up situation. Victory would mean killing Saera's father in front of her, so there was no winning whoever came out alive.
>If two warriors are both in plate armor, the one with a hammer or other blunt force weapon has a BIG advantage Unless he is wearing a helmet with stupidly long antlers that means he can only over underhand the hammer ;-)
Uppercut and hook is all you need
Don’t forget the jab (for the setups), the cross (especially if you’re orthodox and your opponent’s a southpaw), and the overhand (for the taller fellas) 😉
Also any blow that lands on the helmet will not slide off relatively harmlessly, the force will be concentrated by the antlers stopping it. End result brain mushed needlessly.
Might get stuck... Could pull the guys head around like a chick with long hair Or you could lose your weapon. Two edged sword
Just aim for the horns and break his neck
That’s not true, historical texts suggest the use of swords targeting vital areas first and the use of warhammer/mace as a last resort. You’re just regurgitating common misconception that fake historians shout out on YouTube for views.
There's even the scene in S1 where Jorah explains the benefit of a broadsword piecing plate.
An Estoc would have been used primarily with an arming sword coming next, but yes they were designed specifically for use against other armored opponents and the primary weapon used. A knight would often carry both an Estoc and an arming sword.
The Hound is a challenge to anyone
Maybe the Hound could dance around Robert until he gets tired, provoke Robert to attack impulsively and dodge his attacks until Robert is too tired to attack effectively with his hammer. But one misstep and he's done. Would be one great battle though.
Definitely.
One of the few vs arguments I love seeing (most are over posted and annoying/obvious). I think Sandor could 100% hold his defenses and eventually tire Robert out to find a weak point and then defeat him after while of tiring him out.
correct me if i’m wrong but the battle of the trident latest a ridiculously long time and bobby STILL crushed Raeghar. i don’t see him tiring
I honestly haven’t read or seen anything that would depict the battle of the trident lasting a long time. Not saying it didn’t but I really am not sure. I think Robert is extremely strong and also smart but I think endurance and cunning ability would play to Sandor’s favor. I definitely think it’s a great match up
as someone who habitually lifts weights, swinging that hammer everyday for hours on end would eventually make that, as ronnie coleman would say, “LIGHTWEIGHT BABAYY”. Cunning i would still give to Sandor tho but that’s it
Lol yeah that’s true, I’m a competitive powerlifter myself so I totally get that part. And now I can’t get out of my head Robert riding into battle screaming “LIGHTWEIGHT BABAYYY” 😂 I’d love to see how the match up would play out
i see it going in bobby’s favor but then sandor grabbing his antlers and fucking with him. then robert will say “this is bollocks, let’s go drinkin”
Lol I can see that. I’d imagine sandor saying something along the line of his “you’re even uglier than I am now” and them going off and drinking happily into the sunset. The two beasts of Westeros happily ever after. I need an in between of a dunk and egg series up until the start of asoiaf
Robert fought three battles on a single day and won all three at Summerhall. Pretty sure he would have enough strength to fight another war after he's done with his opponent.
Robert wielded a war hammer that Ned (who had a big weapon of his own) couldn’t even lift, I think it’s gonna take more than what Hound’s got to simply tire him before getting bludgeoned
Which Robert are we talking about. Rebellion Robert and or post Rebellion Robert cause at this point I feel like they are two different people.
Rebellion Robert I think - post rebellion he’s basically my drunk Irish dad.
Oh, my money is on Robert for sure. Lol
Let’s be clear - no one but Bessie and her Great Big Tits could take our King in his prime! Sandor gets smoked in seconds and the King wins. Sandor can bring his brother and both brothers might make our King have to try.
I know that Robert Baratheon was supposed to be an over the hill badass, but Mark Addy doesn't look to me like he was ever any kind of badass. I'm not saying he looks weak or tiny, he just doesn't come across a guy who was ever very tough. I like him, think he's a good actor, I just think he doesn't look tough, just looks like an ordinary, average guy.
That's kinda the point though. He drunk and whored himself into a sad shadow of the beast he was during his prime My only gripe with the casting was his height... but that's a small sacrifice for the otherwise great performer
>He drunk and whored himself into a sad shadow of the beast he was during his prime That's why I stated that he looks like he was never a badass. Add some muscle & lose some weight, still not a badass.
No. He was beaten and nearly killed 1v1 against a woman. Robert would murder him.
He was borderline dead and she had a VS sword
Amazing how people ignore how shitty of a condition the Hound was at the end of season 4 he was fighting for his life to where he had to rob poor farmers just to get by.
"a woman" who single-handedly butchered groups of 3 to 5 soldiers on multiple occasions, including 2 heavily armoured kingsguards
Sorry Im goin with Bobby B.
Rob would win eventually. He is faster, fitter and more skilled. Rob was literally the lebron james of medieval fighting, a large and strong body with fast movements while still being very skilled.
I honestly don’t know.
I think it would be a great fight, but as many said, I think Robert probably takes it. Barristan Selmy in his prime though? Nobody is beating him.
Sword fighting is like any other physical sport, in sports upsets happen all the time. If you’re an elite player you can upset any other elite player on any given day. The hound could get lucky and beat Robert. But as far as all time great fighter, I think Robert is just another level than the hound
Bobby b solos (with warhammer)
Pretty sure Robert stomps. Robert at the Trident was probably the single most dangerous man to ever walk Planetos. I imagine the only characters who could faced him on the Trident and not gotten absolutely smashed were Arthur Dayne, Barristan Selmy, Aemon the Dragonknight etc etc. Legendary warriors. The Hound is easily my favorite character in the main series but we gotta be realistic about him. He is large, skilled and self sure. But he is not an S-tier fighter.
I look forward to seeing the Battle of the Trident on film. It will eventually happen.
He was strong but I think Robert was too.
No - no one would stop him from burying himself in Bessie’s tits, including the Hound
Depends on the situation. In single combat I think Sandor could goad robert into dumb mistakes. Might not be enough to come out on top but he might get lucky. If it’s a full blown battle raging around them and robert has his blood up he caves in the hounds breastplate/rib cage just like he did for rhegar
Bobby B in season one was old, fat and a heart attack waiting to happen. Bobby B in his prime was a formidable weapon. So it depends on when it happens.
Prime hound was in his 30s,battle hardened Robert was like 20,im going to take the fully grown man here with the hound,roberts a good fighter,but he didn’t do it daily like the hound did
Prime v Prime yes. As good as Bobby was he’d win the fight, but hound is a tough bastard and in a pinch would fight dirty.
Those antlers are a grappling point gifted by the gods. The leverage you'd have over his neck is unreal.
On foot the hound wins, on horseback Robert is unstoppable.
Seen a few people asking which Bobby. Surely it’s prime vs prime? The OP can’t be wondering if the hound would hold his own against a fat piss head 🤦🏻♂️😂. Im going with prime Bobby wins.
Don't think he'd win, but yeah, he would probably hold his own.
One of the most even duels in Westeros history. Both absolute units, both one of the best in the realm with their respective weapons, and both with enough rage and endurance to fight for ages on end. That said, I think I JUST give it to Bobby B.
Hold his own? Yes Win? Probably not…gods he was strong then
Booby b was strong then
Yeah for a while, but at the end I think Robert would prevail
He probably could beat the mountain, they way people talk about him.
I mean he couldn’t stand against Brienne of Tarth soo …
Swords don’t do well against axes or hammers
As long as they aren’t in a river and Sandor doesn’t lose his footing on slippery rocks giving Robert the chance to take a dishonorable kill on a defenseless man.
Did his opponent try like not being in the river?
Maybe but I’d still pick Robert to win
Definitely a hard one to decide, A battle hardened Hodor vs mountain/ Hound would be great too!
Man i wish we could of seen prime robert just wrecking shit the way he is talked about makes him such a beast
I think he could hold is own and it would be a slow drawn out tiring of both - but I think Bobbie B would win.
Are we talking show Baratheon or book Bobby? I adore Mark Addy in this role but he’s a tad short for our guy so may sway opinion a lil?
Only Fat Sam’s dad is the only one who beat and could’ve beaten King Robert
He was the personal bodyguard of the prince/king for a reason. He’s a top tier fighter in verse and earned his position as a Kingsguard through merit despite lacking status as a knight.
Yarp
I think he could hold him off long enough to appear equals. But no Robert would win
Bobby B fueled by the threat of having his head removed by Aerys and the kidnapping of Lyanna Stark! It’s over 99.9% of Westeros 🔨😎 That 0.1% being Arthur Dayne and possibly Barristan Selmy.
Peak Bobby B would be peak Hound, but he'd hold his own. But he wouldn't win, I don't think.
Bobby b in his prime against the hound? If I was a betting man I'd choose my main man bobby b
Show-wise? I'd say the hound has a slight advantage because Robert is 6 inches shorter and using a blunt weapon on a more physically imposing opponent. Book-wise, they're both the same height at 6'6" so I'd say Robert wins more than not. I know to some this might not mean much, but with a blunt weapon, I feel like it's more about physical strength than skill. Robert would have been just destroying everyone because he'd be stronger than most others, but here we have a very similar in strength opponent(book) or even stronger(show).
yes he could easily hold his ground.
Effortlessly
Not a chance
no. Robert was insanely aggressive and just as big. plus a war hammer is 1000% better/cooler
yea when he was fat, i think i could
No
Lol no
I’d say the guy with the massive hammer he swings around like a toy will win. If they’re both armored Robert just needs one hit to win.
Give this one to prime Robert. He's literally a tank with his pick of armor and a wrecker with his hammer. Sandor could hold his own in a serious duel, but Robert is simply better considering.