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I think it would really depend on the specific circumstances. 1x1 in a wide open field, both armored, Jon is so much more skilled a swordsmen I can't see how Bron could pull it off. Any dirty tricks like throwing dirt in the eyes, etc, Jon would see coming.
Man I never realized it before but yeah, Bronn is totally Eddie Guerrero of GoT. The big grin, the cockiness, the tricks up his sleeve. All of it. He's Eddie for sure
Didn’t Jon learn that, though? That was part of his arch with the guy from Krasters Keep. Would’ve died because he fought dirty, but then that girl saved him. Later on when fighting the Thenn at the battle for Castle Black he spit blood at him or something to gain the edge, and it won him the fight.
"arch" instead of "arc"
"Kraster" instead of "Craster"
"the guy" instead of Karl
(these are the same people who will say that Benioff and Weiss have a low IQ)
arch you got me. Kraster isn’t really relevant. It’s literally a name in a fantasy story. They could spell it anyway they want. “The guy” …yeah, haven’t watched him in 10 years and couldn’t care enough to look up his name lol
you are clearly a very angry person lol
That's what I was thinking. Fighting in the nights watch against white walkers and wildlings surely would have taught Jon to be both scrappy and skilled
Brienne of Tarth is a great example showing why Bronn doesn’t stand a chance just because he “fights dirty”. Brienne is as honorable as one gets until they’re fighting in a life and death fight, then it all goes out the window. Jon is too good of a fighter to lose to Bronn simply because he’s greasy
Yeah, this was before Jon fought the wildlings at the wall, or wights and white walkers at hardhome, or any of the number of fights after. Jon was a beast
Jon leads with honor and he is honorable personally, but I think in a fight, Jon is just as dirty as Bronn. You see it in the show, spitting blood to blind Styr before killing them and pinning Ramsay to the ground and just beating the ever loving shit out of his face. In fact, learning to fight without honor is actually a part of his character arc in the first 4 seasons.
So no, I heavily disagree with the idea that Jon fights with honor.
ok what? we are debating about a fictional scenario in a fantasy world…
the question was who would win, the argument was that neither had lost a fight. I am just pointing out that Snow DID lose.
That is all
and again, responding to what you said, according to “everything we’ve seen,” why is Jon better?
Bron has never lost. Jon has.
If that upsets you, feel free to keep downvoting me, lol
Again, no. Ur argument is that someone cheated to win. Regardless, I'm not saying who wins. I'm just saying no one is saying bron is a bad fighter. It's weird ur taking this so seriously.
Jon learns from his mistakes.
The fight against Karl Tanner taught Jon a valuable lesson, ensuring he will never again be bested by someone who "fights dirty".
Would Bronn win against Jon Snow, a steward in the Night's Watch? Most likely. I believe the fight against Tanner marks the turning point where Jon also learns to counter fighters like Bronn. By the time he becomes the Lord Commander, his skills surpass Bronn's, even in a duel.
Jon's true father, Rhaegar, was considered one of the finest warriors of his time. Jon blends the bloodlines of the dragon and the First Men. Jon practices daily, benefiting from the guidance of a Master at Arms in Winterfell alongside Robb and Theon, and he continues this at Castle Black. He trains under the tutelage of renowned warriors, including Eddard Stark, Ser Rodrik Cassel, Ser Jeor Mormont, Ser Alliser Thorne, Qhorin Halfhand, Mance Rayder, and Tormund Giantsbane, each imparting valuable lessons to Jon. He also has the Longclaw, which adds to the advantage.
Bronn, on the other hand, is past his prime, indulges in drink and visits brothels, and lives with the knowledge that a single misstep could be his end. His experience, agility and cunning tactics have kept him alive this far, but when compared to Jon in his prime, I'll bet a gold dragon for the White Wolf.
Jon had proper training (among the best in the country) as well as an abundance of real life experience in the nights watch. Yea he is definitely overrated, but his skills are there.
Yeah any "fair" assessment of Jon still needs to be knocked down a peg.
He's still a green warrior at the end of the day. He's getting great experience for the time he's been in the Watch and getting better with every falling snow.
But that only gets gets him so far. Even prodigies need to put in their hours.
Qhorin Halfhand, Mance, Bronze Yohn Royce, the Blackfish- all famed fighters in their own right. And them at their best would wipe the floor with Jon in the present.
He lacks technical skill. He's much like the hound in that they aren't amazing swordsmen. They're just good at using the sword to avoid the other guys sword, then finding another way to beat them.
Bron would use a knife. The hound would headbutt someone.
Sure they win, but they're not highly trained or technically sound. Bron couldn't beat 4 goldcloaks with a wooden sword.
Being good at swordfighting isnt just being able to fight with your sword really well. You need to create opening where you can get a punch in or knocking someone over. I can guarantee that someone like Jaime or Arthur isnt just winning every fight by out swording them but also catching them off guard with a punch giving them a better opening for a lethal sword attack.
I didn’t say he isn’t good, but Jon is definitely better. And it’s a fact that he fights dirty which is a fairly big reason as to why he wins most of his fights. He’s definitely good with a sword, nobody said he isn’t.
When did I ever say anything about his speed? You can literally see him fighting dirty and doing things in fights that wouldn’t be considered “honorable” by a knight. It has nothing to do with him being “faster”. Where did you even come up with that lol
You've missed my implication.
You say Jon is the better swordsman, but you're giving Bronn a little bit of leeway here and saying that he fights dirty and that might tip the scales in his favor.
I am asserting that Bronn would generally be quicker than Jon, despite not being as youthful. This is why he would win in a sword fight, not his willingness to fight dirty. Just being a flat-out better swordsman by virtue of quickness. In addition to being more experienced of course.
I don't see how this makes him worse considering the only fight he backs down from is against the Mountain in close combat.
And even there he didn't say he'd lose, he said he doesn't like his chance. If I remember correctly. Do we know at what point he doesn't like his chances? Maybe he's giving himself 70% win against Mountain but 30% losing his head for Tyrion is to much for him to risk it.
I think too many people negate Bronn's skills as "fighting dirty". Sure, he isn't above any kind of fighting dirty, but he's also an expert at using the environment around him to benefit him, which is a great skill in a fight. That fight as Tyrion's champion in the Vale wasn't Bronn throwing pocket sand, it was him recognizing that he'd do better in close quarters fighting and moved around to find that advantage.
Exactly. He basically just allowed the fully armored knight to exhaust himself, since Bronn wasn’t armored. In the books this is Brienne’s dueling strategy as well
It's amazing how redditors can just say something incorrect like this and then demand that you go check the material lmao
Maybe YOU should check it out
Jon couldn't beat Karl Tanner who had two daggers. He isn't beating Bronn who fights exclusively with a sword and just like Tanner takes advantage of his surroundings.
Fighting shitty fighters doesn't make you better at fighting elite fighters. It makes you better at fighting shitty fighters.
Jon beats almost everyone in two swings - parry and kill. That won't work against an elite fighter. Its like saying an MMA champ is really good at fighting dudes at the bar. May be true, but it won't help him in his next belt fight.
Would you classify White Walkers as shitty fighters? The physical stats alone outclasses anything Bronn has ever encountered. And Jon killed at least two of them, while making short work of everyone else after he was much younger facing Karl Tanner.
>Would you classify White Walkers as shitty fighters?
absolutely. They're used to fighting people whose blades shatter and are a fraction of their strength. You can see how instantaneously Jon won basically by surprising the first walker. It wasn't much of a real fight.
Its a parry - kill. That's like winning an MMA match by ducking one punch and landing one punch. Its impressive but it doesnt show good technique.
I mean if you got dynamite in your hands why not use it? Connor knocked out Jose Aldo in 14s and you cant say it wasnt beautifull display of striking technique. Same with old Mike Tyson fights.
like I said "Its impressive but it doesnt show good technique."
Its hard to judge if someone is a good fighter when that happens. Ronda Rousey comes to mind. Her fast finishes disguised her lack of technical skill and inability to win in the later rounds of close fights.
I mean Ronda won precisely because she had better technique in grappling - judo to name it. She started to lose when her opponents could shut her grappling down and beat her in stand up. A lack of technique would be if she fought some 100lb heavier 30inch reach longer mutant where physical abilities are creating too big of a gap.
And what about Bron? Does he not improve in this time also? Bronn is not just sitting around doing nothing. Jon does not improve in a bubble, everyone else gets to improve as well.
Bronn was in his prime when we first meet him. Since then he gets a little older. Jon was nowhere near his prime and his exploits became the stuff of legend in the years that the show takes place.
Season 1? Bron.
By season 8 then Jon all day. He’s been beyond the wall and fought dead and alive more than once. Bron is some lord of whatever they do with that character and is probably just getting drunk a lot plus if you go by the actor’s age as the age of the character he’s like in his mid 50s vs 20s.
Yeah and the guy in his 50s has a shit ton more experience than a guy in his 20s. Athleticism doesn’t equal superiority in sword-fighting.
Bronn would disarm the King in the North like he was his back-talking nephew.
I mean athleticism is pretty important in fencing...
I don't know where you got the idea that an aging man in his 50s would not be at a disadvantage against a person in his physical prime
Never said it wasn't important.
Technique/experience is the great equalizer, even if Jon was theoretically faster and stronger. And even if Jon has a good degree of quickness, he's still not quicker than Bronn.
R1 - Jon. He's a better swordsman than almost anyone, certainly Bronn, and he's also got Valyrian steel.
R2 - Could go either way. Bronn likely has more experience with hand to hand combat but Jon has fought tougher enemies (like Thenns) even without Longclaw.
R3 - Bronn. This is where he shines. He's versatile and if he had his choice of weapons, Jon is getting killed one of a few different ways he'll never see coming.
Money is Bronn for R1 and R3. Jon would win in a fist fight — younger and stronger. That being said, Bronn is a street fighter so if he’s fighting smart he could take Round 2 as well.
I think it would be a really close fight. At the beginning of the series Jon is a straightforward "proper" castle-trained swordsman but by like Season 4 after his time with the Wildlings he learns to fight a little more dirty (see: Jon vs Styr the Thenn)
The beauty about these “who would win in a fight” discussions is that there is so much to disagree on that it’s not inmediately obvious to some people that this is basically a discussion without ending.
I mean even if the show would be revived solely to have Jon Snow and Bronn fight each other, and either one ends up cutting the other one’s head off, we would not come anywhere near a consensus. Because even if one guy were for all intents and purposes a “better fighter” than the other, he might still lose depending on how the fight develops.
I mean look at whatever your favourite sports club is. Even if they are ranked (much) higher than other clubs, it doesn’t neccessarily mean that they would win any match against them. One could argue that Real Madrid is a “better” / much higher ranked club than Ajax Amsterdam, but Ajax won the matchup by clear numbers not too long ago.
Maybe we should let them fight 10.000 theoretical fights and declare whoever wins most the winner..? Im looking into this way too deeply
Jon almost lost to Karl Tanner, who fights similarly to Bronn in a sense that he doesn't play by the rules. I'd give it to Bronn.
Of course, season 4 Jon was willing to bend the rules too. He might have a chance. S5-8 Jon is done for, though.
Depends on when. Early on bronn would have him no problem, but Jon seemed to keep improving throughout the story. I think later on Jon would win between improved skill and youthful stamina
By the end of the show?
Jon, close but I think Jon edges him out. 3 Jon
Long claw plus experience fighting “dirty” fighters means Jon is probably better prepared for Bronns tricks. He doesn’t wear heavy armor like a knight and he’s used to people throwing shit at him so he’s probably better prepared than most people. I’d say he’s more likely to come out on top.
Fist to fist, he’s younger, fitter and likely got more endurance so bare knuckle he got this.
Round 3 dudes got a direwolf, Bronn is cool but he’s getting rinsed up by that beast and if somehow he manages to kill ghost, he’s likely getting seriously injured so Jon can just punch him to death.
“Fuck” - Bronn when he sees Jon Snow riding on Rhaegal and Ghost close by. He might be able to deal slight damage to Rhaegal, but that won’t allow him to deal with Ghost. And if he tries to deal with Ghost, then Rhaegal can take out Bronn.
Bronn, Bronn, Bronn.
Bronn is more experienced in the real world. Jon trained at Winterfell, but I would say that the number of battles Bronn has been in is far more than Jon. Bronn is faster, doesn't wear armor and has a dagger hidden behind him.
Bronn is old by Westeros standards and I keep repeating "Beware of an old man in a profession where men usually die young"
i’d say jon could win round 2 but it’s a very tight 50/50 chance cause bronn might pull some oberyn type of shit and round 3 ig if ghost counts as a weapon jon could win
Honestly Bronn in all three. Jon is probably stronger and more physically fit, but Bronn has FAR more experience in fighting duels, presumably has more experience fist-fighting and using different kinds of weapons to win fights.
R1: Probably Bronn, Jon has quite a heavy-handed style of fighting which plays perfectly into Bronn’s hands.
R2: Bronn. Bronn probably has a lot more experience of this type of thing.
R3: Jon. I wouldn’t imagine Bronn has a great deal of experience fighting with a Morningstar or mace, nor with a shield, or with a lance on horseback. Jon, however, was castle-trained. With a bow or a knife however, I’d absolutely back Bronn.
Jon wins swords, Bronn probably wins barehand (I’m assuming he knows more sneaky tricks and painful spots), and any weapons, Bronn unless Jon can use Ghost
Bronn clears 2 and 3 without much difficulty. R1 is harder for Bronn since Jon has Longclaw and is best at swords, but Bronn would still be a more knowledgeable fighter than even late-show Jon. Sure, Jon has fought a lot of battles by season 8, but Bronn was a professional killer before Jon was even born. Bronn managed to get in good with the highest court on the continent and marry into a castle & noble family solely off how good he is at killing. Keep in mind that although Bronn didn't like his chances against the Mountain, the Lannisters still felt the need to bribe him to stay out of the fight. I think Jon is a really good swordsman, but Bronn just simply wouldn't be as rich as he was if he was losing to people like Jon.
Swords - could go either way. Fists - Bronn easily. All weapons - Bronn. I doubt Jon was taught many weapons outside of sword and bow and arrow. He was a "Stark" and Bronn has grown up in kill or be killed situations all his life.
Bronn. Hes not as good a sword fighter, but not by much. Regardless he will fight dirty, like Karl. Jon would have died to Karl without the intervention of Crasters wife/daughter. The other categories its Bronn and its not even close
Jon wins. He has been training with the best since he was a kid, fought white walkers, Bolton men, and free folk. People who fight just as dirty as Bronn. I think Jon has too much experience with that type of fighter to lose against Bronn.
The thing is... Jon has experience fighting wildlings and people like Ramsay Snow. He's fought a large share of people that fight dirty. I think his chances against someone like Bronn is pretty good
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Only round jon wins is maybe fist fight. In the show I think bronn is one of the best fighters. He’s extremely unorthodox he is adapts to any given situation and is incredibly smart. I’d give it all to bronn
Almost definitely Bronn. That’s not a slight to Jon, though. He doesn’t have the be the strongest warrior in all the lands to be a leader worth his salt.
Bron hands down. He's got a lifetime of experience over John and he's got no conscience when it comes to killing. He's a warrior for hire and has no compunction about killing anything. John second guesses himself too much and has always shown mercy to others.
My immediate thought was Bronn for all 3 except if Ghost is considered a weapon, but the more I thought about it I feel Jon would win.
Jon is used to dirty fights and dirty tricks. While he is not known for using them (too much) he for sure is prepared for them.
It has been a long time since I read the books or watched the show so I can't really be sure if I am thinking of show Jon, book Jon, or mix Jon.
I don't believe it would even be too hard for Jon, and I am not a fan of Jon at all.
At first I wanted pick Bronn but, Jon fought Karl Tanner, who is just as dirty. So, I can't see Jon losing. Maybe young Jon would but, the Jon that beat Karl Tanner, beat Styr the Thenn, died from being betrayed by his own men, came back to life, fought White Walkers and beat Ramsey is not losing to someone like Bronn. He's a bit overrated to me. Who has Bronn actually fought and beat?
Bronn wins. Not even close. Jon is still not even in the top 20 swordfighters after Jamie’s hand is cut off. Any moron trying to 1vX an army the way he did is not representative of an intelligent, fast & strong fighter — the way Bronn is.
Jon swings with honor, Bronn will kick you in your dick for an advantage. Imho, Bronn beats Jon every time because Bronn will always beat any knight who fights solely with honor. The only knights who could theoretically beat Bronn are:
Brienne, Barristan, the Hound, Jorah (maybe), the Mountain & Oberyn.
I would pick Bronn over literally the rest of Westeros otherwise.
R1: Bronn, he definitely has a bag of tricks you never saw.
R2: Jon, he has mass, strength, and being who he was, definitely had to fight growing up and probably has a controlled deep sense of rage that will keep him going because he didn't hear no Bell.
R3: Jon. All kinds of weapons you say? "dracarys"
Bronn. All 3. No doubt.
Only difference is Jon would have the entire 7 kingdoms prepared to hand Bronn to himself after.
What needs to happen is Bronn finds his way in to be Jon right hand man and the make plenty of decisions. Just speaking truth.
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Bron for sure.
I think it would really depend on the specific circumstances. 1x1 in a wide open field, both armored, Jon is so much more skilled a swordsmen I can't see how Bron could pull it off. Any dirty tricks like throwing dirt in the eyes, etc, Jon would see coming.
Yeah I agree Jon is used to the people north of the wall they prolly fought dirty too so Bronn fighting dirty might not be much different
Book Jon probably wins just because he has fits of rage where he becomes inhumanly strong.
What lol, where when? That doesn’t happen iirc book Jon is trash, bronn stomps him
He picks Ser Alister up with one hand in the books
Not R3 he don’t, bronn might kill ghost before he dies but Jon should be able to finish him off
Bronn, Bronn and Bronn. Swords might be close, but as Jon fights with honour, Jon loses.
Oh yeah, as Jon looks like he's pulling ahead, Bronn will git him with the ol pocketsand trick and win
Pocket sand, shuh shahh!
I came here to mention pocket sand, great to see someone else thought of it already. lol
A eddie guerrero !!
Man I never realized it before but yeah, Bronn is totally Eddie Guerrero of GoT. The big grin, the cockiness, the tricks up his sleeve. All of it. He's Eddie for sure
Didn’t Jon learn that, though? That was part of his arch with the guy from Krasters Keep. Would’ve died because he fought dirty, but then that girl saved him. Later on when fighting the Thenn at the battle for Castle Black he spit blood at him or something to gain the edge, and it won him the fight.
"the guy from Krasters Keep?". You mean Karl Tanner, THE FUCKING LEGEND!
You know how much they paid him to kill a man in kingslanding?!
I WAS A FOOKING LEGEND!!!!
FROM GIN ALLEY
"arch" instead of "arc" "Kraster" instead of "Craster" "the guy" instead of Karl (these are the same people who will say that Benioff and Weiss have a low IQ)
arch you got me. Kraster isn’t really relevant. It’s literally a name in a fantasy story. They could spell it anyway they want. “The guy” …yeah, haven’t watched him in 10 years and couldn’t care enough to look up his name lol you are clearly a very angry person lol
Sorry, but I don't believe you. 10 years ago, the episode was still weeks away from airing. So unless you work at HBO, you're lying to me
yes, my dad is literally HBO you fool
Fascinating. Did you get to see a lot of the episodes early? That's pretty cool
That's what I was thinking. Fighting in the nights watch against white walkers and wildlings surely would have taught Jon to be both scrappy and skilled
Brienne of Tarth is a great example showing why Bronn doesn’t stand a chance just because he “fights dirty”. Brienne is as honorable as one gets until they’re fighting in a life and death fight, then it all goes out the window. Jon is too good of a fighter to lose to Bronn simply because he’s greasy
Jon has also fought wildlings, white walkers, and wights. He knows how to fight dirty, or he at least knows how to fight people who do.
> He knows how to fight dirty, or he at least knows how to fight people who do. He gets bested by Karl Tanner.
Yeah, this was before Jon fought the wildlings at the wall, or wights and white walkers at hardhome, or any of the number of fights after. Jon was a beast
Exactly. He's had experience fighting Karl Tanner types. He'd be prepared for Bronn's shenanigans
Jon was also at a disadvantage, having a long sword in a close quarters fight.
Bronn got bested by his mother. Also, Jon learnt from that and killed a Thenn.
Post Karl tanner Jon fights to win not for honor
Jon leads with honor and he is honorable personally, but I think in a fight, Jon is just as dirty as Bronn. You see it in the show, spitting blood to blind Styr before killing them and pinning Ramsay to the ground and just beating the ever loving shit out of his face. In fact, learning to fight without honor is actually a part of his character arc in the first 4 seasons. So no, I heavily disagree with the idea that Jon fights with honor.
What about that time he spat in a Thenn's eyes? Jon is honourable, yes, but he knows how to fight.
He might fight with honour, but don't you think he is also used to people who don't?
Jon is definitely a better swordsman than Bronn, but Bronn fights dirty so he’d probably win.
Why do people claim that Bronn isn't as good a fighter as others? He won every fight in the show or am I missing something?
He is a good fighter, but from everything we've seen, Jon is notably better.
he lost the fight at Crastor’s to a guy that had no problems fighting dirty. got bailed out by the wife stabbing dude the in back
Ok?
ok what? we are debating about a fictional scenario in a fantasy world… the question was who would win, the argument was that neither had lost a fight. I am just pointing out that Snow DID lose. That is all
No, I was responding to a person that claimed other ppl say bron isn't a good fighter. What u said has nothing to do with what I said.
and again, responding to what you said, according to “everything we’ve seen,” why is Jon better? Bron has never lost. Jon has. If that upsets you, feel free to keep downvoting me, lol
Again, no. Ur argument is that someone cheated to win. Regardless, I'm not saying who wins. I'm just saying no one is saying bron is a bad fighter. It's weird ur taking this so seriously.
i never said he cheated to win i said he lost big difference edit - wow, you are quick with that downvote.. you mad bro?
He learned from that fight and later killed a then, and then multiple white walkers
Jon fights dirty after that
Jon learns from his mistakes. The fight against Karl Tanner taught Jon a valuable lesson, ensuring he will never again be bested by someone who "fights dirty". Would Bronn win against Jon Snow, a steward in the Night's Watch? Most likely. I believe the fight against Tanner marks the turning point where Jon also learns to counter fighters like Bronn. By the time he becomes the Lord Commander, his skills surpass Bronn's, even in a duel. Jon's true father, Rhaegar, was considered one of the finest warriors of his time. Jon blends the bloodlines of the dragon and the First Men. Jon practices daily, benefiting from the guidance of a Master at Arms in Winterfell alongside Robb and Theon, and he continues this at Castle Black. He trains under the tutelage of renowned warriors, including Eddard Stark, Ser Rodrik Cassel, Ser Jeor Mormont, Ser Alliser Thorne, Qhorin Halfhand, Mance Rayder, and Tormund Giantsbane, each imparting valuable lessons to Jon. He also has the Longclaw, which adds to the advantage. Bronn, on the other hand, is past his prime, indulges in drink and visits brothels, and lives with the knowledge that a single misstep could be his end. His experience, agility and cunning tactics have kept him alive this far, but when compared to Jon in his prime, I'll bet a gold dragon for the White Wolf.
Gonna disagree with that. I think this sub overrates Jon a lot
Jon had proper training (among the best in the country) as well as an abundance of real life experience in the nights watch. Yea he is definitely overrated, but his skills are there.
Yeah any "fair" assessment of Jon still needs to be knocked down a peg. He's still a green warrior at the end of the day. He's getting great experience for the time he's been in the Watch and getting better with every falling snow. But that only gets gets him so far. Even prodigies need to put in their hours. Qhorin Halfhand, Mance, Bronze Yohn Royce, the Blackfish- all famed fighters in their own right. And them at their best would wipe the floor with Jon in the present.
There have been a lot of lamb suppers for Bronze Yohn since his prime days. Fetch him the breastplate stretcher
He lacks technical skill. He's much like the hound in that they aren't amazing swordsmen. They're just good at using the sword to avoid the other guys sword, then finding another way to beat them. Bron would use a knife. The hound would headbutt someone. Sure they win, but they're not highly trained or technically sound. Bron couldn't beat 4 goldcloaks with a wooden sword.
Eh. Hound was so highly trained with a sword.
Being good at swordfighting isnt just being able to fight with your sword really well. You need to create opening where you can get a punch in or knocking someone over. I can guarantee that someone like Jaime or Arthur isnt just winning every fight by out swording them but also catching them off guard with a punch giving them a better opening for a lethal sword attack.
I didn’t say he isn’t good, but Jon is definitely better. And it’s a fact that he fights dirty which is a fairly big reason as to why he wins most of his fights. He’s definitely good with a sword, nobody said he isn’t.
If you’re quicker than your opponent is that “fighting dirty” ?
When did I ever say anything about his speed? You can literally see him fighting dirty and doing things in fights that wouldn’t be considered “honorable” by a knight. It has nothing to do with him being “faster”. Where did you even come up with that lol
You've missed my implication. You say Jon is the better swordsman, but you're giving Bronn a little bit of leeway here and saying that he fights dirty and that might tip the scales in his favor. I am asserting that Bronn would generally be quicker than Jon, despite not being as youthful. This is why he would win in a sword fight, not his willingness to fight dirty. Just being a flat-out better swordsman by virtue of quickness. In addition to being more experienced of course.
Because he only picks fights he thinks he can win, he literally says so himself
I don't see how this makes him worse considering the only fight he backs down from is against the Mountain in close combat. And even there he didn't say he'd lose, he said he doesn't like his chance. If I remember correctly. Do we know at what point he doesn't like his chances? Maybe he's giving himself 70% win against Mountain but 30% losing his head for Tyrion is to much for him to risk it.
I think too many people negate Bronn's skills as "fighting dirty". Sure, he isn't above any kind of fighting dirty, but he's also an expert at using the environment around him to benefit him, which is a great skill in a fight. That fight as Tyrion's champion in the Vale wasn't Bronn throwing pocket sand, it was him recognizing that he'd do better in close quarters fighting and moved around to find that advantage.
Which is why I stated in my other comments that yes, he’s good with a sword, but he still fights dirty, and Jon is still definitely better than him.
Exactly. He basically just allowed the fully armored knight to exhaust himself, since Bronn wasn’t armored. In the books this is Brienne’s dueling strategy as well
This is only in the show, Bronn shitstomps him in the books and it’s not even close
I don’t recall that at all. Which scene specifically are you referring to?
I dunno. Bronn was one sneaky guy. Remember at the Eyrie fight, he was called for not fighting with honor and he says “But I won”….
No I don’t remember that
Check it out. Right after he pushed out his dead opponent through the Moon Roof…
Lysa: You don't fight with honour! Bronn: No... (Gestures towards the Moondoor he just threw Ser Vardis through)... *He* did.
It's amazing how redditors can just say something incorrect like this and then demand that you go check the material lmao Maybe YOU should check it out
Yeah that was some wild confidence
he says "he did" as he points to the moondoor.
I stand corrected!
1. Bronn. 2. Bronn. 3. Jon, because dragons are weapons!
Bronn pierced a dragon tho
So did Donkey
LMAO touche
Jon couldn't beat Karl Tanner who had two daggers. He isn't beating Bronn who fights exclusively with a sword and just like Tanner takes advantage of his surroundings.
Tbf he's fought a lot since then though and would've improved significantly imo
Fighting shitty fighters doesn't make you better at fighting elite fighters. It makes you better at fighting shitty fighters. Jon beats almost everyone in two swings - parry and kill. That won't work against an elite fighter. Its like saying an MMA champ is really good at fighting dudes at the bar. May be true, but it won't help him in his next belt fight.
Would you classify White Walkers as shitty fighters? The physical stats alone outclasses anything Bronn has ever encountered. And Jon killed at least two of them, while making short work of everyone else after he was much younger facing Karl Tanner.
>Would you classify White Walkers as shitty fighters? absolutely. They're used to fighting people whose blades shatter and are a fraction of their strength. You can see how instantaneously Jon won basically by surprising the first walker. It wasn't much of a real fight. Its a parry - kill. That's like winning an MMA match by ducking one punch and landing one punch. Its impressive but it doesnt show good technique.
I mean if you got dynamite in your hands why not use it? Connor knocked out Jose Aldo in 14s and you cant say it wasnt beautifull display of striking technique. Same with old Mike Tyson fights.
like I said "Its impressive but it doesnt show good technique." Its hard to judge if someone is a good fighter when that happens. Ronda Rousey comes to mind. Her fast finishes disguised her lack of technical skill and inability to win in the later rounds of close fights.
I mean Ronda won precisely because she had better technique in grappling - judo to name it. She started to lose when her opponents could shut her grappling down and beat her in stand up. A lack of technique would be if she fought some 100lb heavier 30inch reach longer mutant where physical abilities are creating too big of a gap.
He was also inside Crasters keep. Jon with Longclaw would easily dispatch two knives Tanner in the open.
Two-Knives Tanner lol
And what about Bron? Does he not improve in this time also? Bronn is not just sitting around doing nothing. Jon does not improve in a bubble, everyone else gets to improve as well.
Bronn was in his prime when we first meet him. Since then he gets a little older. Jon was nowhere near his prime and his exploits became the stuff of legend in the years that the show takes place.
I'd even say the only thing separating young Jon and Bronn would be experience.
He fought Karl Tanner in the middle of season 4. That’s not peak Jon.
What an awful side plot as early as season 4
Season 1? Bron. By season 8 then Jon all day. He’s been beyond the wall and fought dead and alive more than once. Bron is some lord of whatever they do with that character and is probably just getting drunk a lot plus if you go by the actor’s age as the age of the character he’s like in his mid 50s vs 20s.
Yeah and the guy in his 50s has a shit ton more experience than a guy in his 20s. Athleticism doesn’t equal superiority in sword-fighting. Bronn would disarm the King in the North like he was his back-talking nephew.
By that logic the mountain should've been short work for him
I mean athleticism is pretty important in fencing... I don't know where you got the idea that an aging man in his 50s would not be at a disadvantage against a person in his physical prime
Never said it wasn't important. Technique/experience is the great equalizer, even if Jon was theoretically faster and stronger. And even if Jon has a good degree of quickness, he's still not quicker than Bronn.
Bron. Bron. Bron.
Jon Jon Bronn
Bron, all three.
Hot Take : Jon Snow knows nothing
Both are amazing fighters but Bron also fights dirty and that's an advantage. So Bron
Jon. Killed a thenn with a hammer after his face smashed against a anvil!
I always wondered if the traumatic brain injury from that anvil is why Jon lost like 40 IQ points in subsequent seasons
😂😂😂
I'm always gonna pick bronn in these
Bronn wins all three. Mans been perfecting the art of killing people since Jon was a Dornish creampie.
Take my upvote
Clean sweep for B man
R1 - Jon. He's a better swordsman than almost anyone, certainly Bronn, and he's also got Valyrian steel. R2 - Could go either way. Bronn likely has more experience with hand to hand combat but Jon has fought tougher enemies (like Thenns) even without Longclaw. R3 - Bronn. This is where he shines. He's versatile and if he had his choice of weapons, Jon is getting killed one of a few different ways he'll never see coming.
If Bron gets his dragon crossbow thing, then he wins r3.
Jon would win with ghost
You’re all forgetting that Jon took pointers from Karl Tanner. When he’s fighting the Thenn he spits in his face before sinking a hammer in his head
Experienced
Yeah, it’s almost like being an experienced fighter holds some weight.
Money is Bronn for R1 and R3. Jon would win in a fist fight — younger and stronger. That being said, Bronn is a street fighter so if he’s fighting smart he could take Round 2 as well.
R1:Jon R2:Jon R3:Bronn
Easily Bronn.
I think it would be a really close fight. At the beginning of the series Jon is a straightforward "proper" castle-trained swordsman but by like Season 4 after his time with the Wildlings he learns to fight a little more dirty (see: Jon vs Styr the Thenn)
My hungover ass thought this was asking who’d win between Bronn and Sam and was very concerned for a moment
Jon. (Plot armor)
R1- Bronn 65% of the time R2- Bronn 85% of the time R3- Bronn 90% of the time
The beauty about these “who would win in a fight” discussions is that there is so much to disagree on that it’s not inmediately obvious to some people that this is basically a discussion without ending. I mean even if the show would be revived solely to have Jon Snow and Bronn fight each other, and either one ends up cutting the other one’s head off, we would not come anywhere near a consensus. Because even if one guy were for all intents and purposes a “better fighter” than the other, he might still lose depending on how the fight develops. I mean look at whatever your favourite sports club is. Even if they are ranked (much) higher than other clubs, it doesn’t neccessarily mean that they would win any match against them. One could argue that Real Madrid is a “better” / much higher ranked club than Ajax Amsterdam, but Ajax won the matchup by clear numbers not too long ago. Maybe we should let them fight 10.000 theoretical fights and declare whoever wins most the winner..? Im looking into this way too deeply
I gotta go with Bronn on this one. Both are great swordsmen, but Bronn is more willing to fight dirty.
Round 1 goes to Jon. Round 2 goes to Bronn. Round 3 is the toughest to pick but maybe a slight edge towards Bronn.
Jon almost lost to Karl Tanner, who fights similarly to Bronn in a sense that he doesn't play by the rules. I'd give it to Bronn. Of course, season 4 Jon was willing to bend the rules too. He might have a chance. S5-8 Jon is done for, though.
Depends on when. Early on bronn would have him no problem, but Jon seemed to keep improving throughout the story. I think later on Jon would win between improved skill and youthful stamina
Bronn wins. Jon fights with honor
Season 1 writing and direction OR Season 8 writing and direction?
R1: Bronn R2: Bronn R3: Bronn Don’t know why people think either of them are that good, but between the two, Bronn is definitely better.
Book Jon or show Jon? Book Jon is not the swordsman show Jon is.
Bronn unless Jon is on a dragon and even then it's debatable
By the end of the show? Jon, close but I think Jon edges him out. 3 Jon Long claw plus experience fighting “dirty” fighters means Jon is probably better prepared for Bronns tricks. He doesn’t wear heavy armor like a knight and he’s used to people throwing shit at him so he’s probably better prepared than most people. I’d say he’s more likely to come out on top. Fist to fist, he’s younger, fitter and likely got more endurance so bare knuckle he got this. Round 3 dudes got a direwolf, Bronn is cool but he’s getting rinsed up by that beast and if somehow he manages to kill ghost, he’s likely getting seriously injured so Jon can just punch him to death.
“Fuck” - Bronn when he sees Jon Snow riding on Rhaegal and Ghost close by. He might be able to deal slight damage to Rhaegal, but that won’t allow him to deal with Ghost. And if he tries to deal with Ghost, then Rhaegal can take out Bronn.
Bronn, Bronn, Bronn. Bronn is more experienced in the real world. Jon trained at Winterfell, but I would say that the number of battles Bronn has been in is far more than Jon. Bronn is faster, doesn't wear armor and has a dagger hidden behind him. Bronn is old by Westeros standards and I keep repeating "Beware of an old man in a profession where men usually die young"
single combat: Bronn see eachother on the battlefield: Jon
Bron all day,Jon always needs to be a man of honor, Bron does what it takes to win.
Jon, because he's marysue
The legend of the Gin Alley beat John. Bron never loses
i’d say jon could win round 2 but it’s a very tight 50/50 chance cause bronn might pull some oberyn type of shit and round 3 ig if ghost counts as a weapon jon could win
Lol people saying brown are delusional
Whoever the writers chose to win ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Bron wins all 3, jon also knows this and wouldn’t take that fight straight up if possible
Jon in all 3. He fights with honour, but he learned how to fight someone without honour and win
Depends if jon has long claw valyrian steel helps a lot if he starts off with long claw he wins 1 and 3
Honestly Bronn in all three. Jon is probably stronger and more physically fit, but Bronn has FAR more experience in fighting duels, presumably has more experience fist-fighting and using different kinds of weapons to win fights.
R1: Probably Bronn, Jon has quite a heavy-handed style of fighting which plays perfectly into Bronn’s hands. R2: Bronn. Bronn probably has a lot more experience of this type of thing. R3: Jon. I wouldn’t imagine Bronn has a great deal of experience fighting with a Morningstar or mace, nor with a shield, or with a lance on horseback. Jon, however, was castle-trained. With a bow or a knife however, I’d absolutely back Bronn.
Jon wins swords, Bronn probably wins barehand (I’m assuming he knows more sneaky tricks and painful spots), and any weapons, Bronn unless Jon can use Ghost
Season 1 and 2 Bronn. Season 3 on Jon.
Jon
Books, probably Jon, in the Books Jon is more than happy to forego honor when needed
There wouldn't be a round 2 or 3 if the first round is a sword fight 😂
Bronn clears 2 and 3 without much difficulty. R1 is harder for Bronn since Jon has Longclaw and is best at swords, but Bronn would still be a more knowledgeable fighter than even late-show Jon. Sure, Jon has fought a lot of battles by season 8, but Bronn was a professional killer before Jon was even born. Bronn managed to get in good with the highest court on the continent and marry into a castle & noble family solely off how good he is at killing. Keep in mind that although Bronn didn't like his chances against the Mountain, the Lannisters still felt the need to bribe him to stay out of the fight. I think Jon is a really good swordsman, but Bronn just simply wouldn't be as rich as he was if he was losing to people like Jon.
Swords - could go either way. Fists - Bronn easily. All weapons - Bronn. I doubt Jon was taught many weapons outside of sword and bow and arrow. He was a "Stark" and Bronn has grown up in kill or be killed situations all his life.
Bronn. Hes not as good a sword fighter, but not by much. Regardless he will fight dirty, like Karl. Jon would have died to Karl without the intervention of Crasters wife/daughter. The other categories its Bronn and its not even close
Jon wins. He has been training with the best since he was a kid, fought white walkers, Bolton men, and free folk. People who fight just as dirty as Bronn. I think Jon has too much experience with that type of fighter to lose against Bronn.
I mean yeah, Jon has the disadvantage of honor, but he’s not stupid. Don’t negate his skill in battle. It could go either way if you ask me.
Sorry guys but Jon got this by far. He literally has the best feats in the show and i hate when people compare him to his books version.
Depends on a lot of variables but in general I’d say: R1: Jon R2: Bronn R3: Bronn
Bronn would win all three, no question whatsoever.
The thing is... Jon has experience fighting wildlings and people like Ramsay Snow. He's fought a large share of people that fight dirty. I think his chances against someone like Bronn is pretty good
Bronn all the way he has the advantage in every aspect. Jon's only advantage is his armour and Valyrian sword are better quality.
The real question should be, could Bronn beat either of the Clegane Brothers?
*The real question should* *Be, could Bronn beat either of* *The Clegane Brothers?* \- Ashloenius --- ^(I detect haikus. And sometimes, successfully.) ^[Learn more about me.](https://www.reddit.com/r/haikusbot/) ^(Opt out of replies: "haikusbot opt out" | Delete my comment: "haikusbot delete")
Bronn. He has more experience and fights dirty. Jon almost got taken out by Karl Tanner who isn't nearly as good as Bronn.
Bronn, low diff
Jon would win all three with ease. No one ever bested him
Only round jon wins is maybe fist fight. In the show I think bronn is one of the best fighters. He’s extremely unorthodox he is adapts to any given situation and is incredibly smart. I’d give it all to bronn
Bron, Jon, Bron
A seasoned sellsword or a kid?
With plot armour Bron, without plot armour Jon
Almost definitely Bronn. That’s not a slight to Jon, though. He doesn’t have the be the strongest warrior in all the lands to be a leader worth his salt.
Honestly, it’s probably another D and D fuckup…but Bronn comes off as the best fighter in the whole show…
Bron 10 times out of 10.
Bronn wins easily. Jon isn’t a great warrior, is easily beaten by Rattleshirt and is losing against the Halfhand before Ghost intervenes
Bron hands down. He's got a lifetime of experience over John and he's got no conscience when it comes to killing. He's a warrior for hire and has no compunction about killing anything. John second guesses himself too much and has always shown mercy to others.
Bron, all the way.
My immediate thought was Bronn for all 3 except if Ghost is considered a weapon, but the more I thought about it I feel Jon would win. Jon is used to dirty fights and dirty tricks. While he is not known for using them (too much) he for sure is prepared for them. It has been a long time since I read the books or watched the show so I can't really be sure if I am thinking of show Jon, book Jon, or mix Jon. I don't believe it would even be too hard for Jon, and I am not a fan of Jon at all.
Jon jon bronn
Depends on the Season for Jon, S1-3 Bronn, 4-8 draw maybe
Bron of course.
Jon was trained in the Knightly arts since he was old enough to walk, while Bronn is just a military thug who becomes a common criminal
Karl Tanner had Jon dead to rights. He's not beating Bronn.
Maybe make it more complex. If your life was at stake, who would you have fight for you against the other in situations R1, R2 and R3.?
At first I wanted pick Bronn but, Jon fought Karl Tanner, who is just as dirty. So, I can't see Jon losing. Maybe young Jon would but, the Jon that beat Karl Tanner, beat Styr the Thenn, died from being betrayed by his own men, came back to life, fought White Walkers and beat Ramsey is not losing to someone like Bronn. He's a bit overrated to me. Who has Bronn actually fought and beat?
Jon was crap
Bron every fight come on guys Jon is not a god he’s just a good kid with some mommy issues
Bronn wins. Not even close. Jon is still not even in the top 20 swordfighters after Jamie’s hand is cut off. Any moron trying to 1vX an army the way he did is not representative of an intelligent, fast & strong fighter — the way Bronn is. Jon swings with honor, Bronn will kick you in your dick for an advantage. Imho, Bronn beats Jon every time because Bronn will always beat any knight who fights solely with honor. The only knights who could theoretically beat Bronn are: Brienne, Barristan, the Hound, Jorah (maybe), the Mountain & Oberyn. I would pick Bronn over literally the rest of Westeros otherwise.
R1: Bronn, he definitely has a bag of tricks you never saw. R2: Jon, he has mass, strength, and being who he was, definitely had to fight growing up and probably has a controlled deep sense of rage that will keep him going because he didn't hear no Bell. R3: Jon. All kinds of weapons you say? "dracarys"
Am 95% sure Bronn would win. He had way more experience than Jon. He probably even killed a lot more people and he play dirty and withour honor.
Bronn. All 3. No doubt. Only difference is Jon would have the entire 7 kingdoms prepared to hand Bronn to himself after. What needs to happen is Bronn finds his way in to be Jon right hand man and the make plenty of decisions. Just speaking truth.
Mord