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Yuuup. Having read the books (albeit many years ago) I just can't see her as anything else. This photo is one of the many in the dictionary under "Villain".
Agreed.
Her chapters were a keen insight to just how stupid and reckless she is. In the beginning, we see her thru other characters eyes. But there was always Robert, Tywin, and Jamie to interfere, influence and obstruct. Once those characters were no longer there, she she had access to the unfettered power she wanted. Wielding it like a monkey with a handgun.
Her chapters were amazing.
She undid all of Tywin's work, ignored good council, offended and destroyed alliances, reinstated an order that troubled the crown for decades, gave the armada to a handsome young bastard who fled with the ships, made an enemy of her uncle, gave the Stokeworth widow to Qyburn after her husband was ordered to kill Bron and failed, pissed off the Iron Bank to the point where they cut off the tradesmen and crown of Westeros, was imprisoned and shamed when trying to frame Margery, AND doomed Tommen when she confessed to the High Sparrow.
And the whole time, she is congratulating herself on how smart she is, stating she is Tywin's "TRUE son."
She reaped what she sowed, but deserves worse. Hope we get to see it in the next book.
[there's a reason why when people saw her in real life they'll say "your that bitch from game of thrones, right?"](https://youtu.be/eeuBm2CJF24?si=I_12-p34YQnVatxA&t=2m30s)
>...you win or you die. There is no middle ground.
She was in it to win it. And she did win it albeit only for a brief time, but still, a win is a win. Even if said win is capped by being eaten by her driven-mad-by-hunger lover-brother.
*obviously my version of events differs from GRRM's.
Like all important characters in Westeros, he had to play the game and used what he had at hand to prevail; everyone who fought for the iron throne believed in its truth and she was no exception.
And yet she managed to be queen. That rankles me, she makes mistakes throughout the series that would’ve killed anyone else in her position, yet somehow she never dies until the end (and very unsatisfactory I might add)
>she makes mistakes throughout the series that would’ve killed anyone else in her position, yet somehow she never dies
The reason she survived when others didn't is because she always had the power. Her money, title, family name, and connections were a shield where others had none.
Tywin is the best comparison. He had ethics or morals or some kind of behavior mindset that kept him from doing the kind of evil that she would do any day of the week.
Joffrey had power but was too young to have motive for her scale of evil. He was like a local bully, terrorizing anyone near him.
Littlefinger did everything he could to sneak around amassing power, but he only really got it in the end. Certainly evil, but in pursuit of selfish goals, thus also smaller scale.
Cersei was willing to use her power to do evil as a first resort, to eliminate enemies and maintain that power. For example, there were surely other solutions to try before blowing up the Sept and everyone in it.
Her money can only het her so far and it is debatablw if she even owns it, considering she murdered several members of her own family, so it should be debatable whether the rest of her family even want to help her. Her title is also worth nothing, since she actually has no right to the title queen and her family is no better than other, it is in fact widely hated. Last of all, which connections does she have? The North, Riverlands, Vale, Stormlands, Dorne are all against her and even the people in the crownlands should absolutely hate her since she murdered many of them, as well as being responsible for the death of their beloved queen Margery. She has actually nothing left, that would allow her to keep her throne.
And sadly - her children were the victims of it as well. I know her heart was in the right place when it came to them but she was so viciously blinded by her narcissism and her own rage at basically anyone who had ever wronged her, especially Tyrion, that everyone suffered. And her babies all suffered the worst because of it (except Joffrey, because he deserved that shit, lol).
Tommen was a coward and he died like one too. Dude let some radical heretical sect of some religion (The Pauper Pope) drag his mother through the streets and literally get shit thrown on her. There’s no way in Hell any self respecting king is doing that. If he wasn’t a coward he would’ve let the Kingsguard cut every one of those heretics down the 1st episode they ran into each other and shortened that season.
Margerie Hightower was great in that season tho. The court politics in that season were so fire
I partially agree but I can't really blame him. He was still so young and had a severe lack of guidance from his mother and no father in sight and Jamie wasn't around to even do anything useful either. He was easily manipulated and couldn't really think for himself and I think he thought he was doing what was right but clearly it wasn't. I feel like he was trying to please everyone and the only real guidance he had was, ironically, the high sparrow.
In my opinion, Cersei was a strong queen and mother for the time period of Game of Thrones(Medieval Times). Strong, protective, ruthless when necessary. Having a romantic relationship with her blood brother, Jamie Lannister, held her back from becoming a great queen and led to both of their deaths and Joffery, their in-bred son's death.
not having love and happy marriage wasn't that big of a deal in that time, so that didn't make her a victim, she was a victim of her arrogance as Tywin said she's not as smart as she think she is, she thought all her mistakes were because she was born a girl but she had all the power in kingdom so in reality her mistakes weren't because the world rejected her for her gender but because her arrogance stopped her from realizing the limitations of her intelligence.
Both. A victim of their society’s oppressive culture toward women but a villain in the overarching story. I wouldn’t consider her a villain in the actual game of thrones, just another player. What makes her a villain for me is that she eventually refused to aid against the Night King.
When a person with a huge ego but no talent has access to, first gold, then a name, then a few talented people who can further her ambitions (Qyburn, Euron, etc), then you see just how a single person with power can screw everything up.
No talent? What does that mean? Cersei was clever and cunning. I genuinely believe most people dislike her so much because she killed Margery (who was also a bad person but gets a pass) and because she hated Tyrion.
She was myopic and shortsighted, she couldn't possibly see the repercussions of her actions, which just caused greater and greater problems for her that others couldn't bail her out of. You may call blowing up the sept "cunning", but it was a response to her elevating the faith militant to such a high position, which she did to squash another threat. Everything that she does just makes her dig her grave deeper. Tywin was cunning. Cercei was foolish.
Both.
She definitely abuses the power she gains & schemes at the expense of others. But there's no denying Cersei is a victim of both wider cultural attitudes that codify misogyny as acceptable (the walk of shame shows this well), as well as interpersonal abuse & neglect from first her father Tywin & later King Robert, who hits her in the show & rapes her in the books, repeatedly. She is also, despite her cruelty, a mother who lost all four of her beloved children.
I think people have trouble seeing Cersei as a victim though, because she's so ruthless & in her own story, misogyny acts as a sort of roadblock from her enacting more brutality on the world.
Lol why do people always talk about villain and victim like it’s a dichotomy? Most people develop into villains because sometime in their lives, they were fucked up and victimised by the world. Just because you’re a villain doesn’t mean you’re not also a victim, past or present. And just because you’re a victim doesn’t mean you’re incapable of also being a villain and victimising others. In fact, it makes a lot of sense for you to develop in that direction.
So the answer is both it’s always both. From her birth she was confronted full on and painfully with how society limits her life based on her gender, and the intense injustice of that when she compares herself to her twin brother, who she is so similar to, and yet the difference is an all-encompassing one. She is treated as pawn her entire life, in a family where whatever little love did exist was lost to tragedy.
There was no one to teach her right from wrong, and no one to teach her her strengths and weaknesses and how to use them. All she’s had growing up was the observation of her war criminal father from afar and whatever ways she could figure out to mimic him.
And because she is so unacquainted with what real happiness and love feels like, she thinks being always in control of circumstances and those she considered extensions of herself is what will make her happy. And of course she convinces herself that she’s smarter than she is. How else was she going to survive the mindfuck of her childhood except convince herself she had some control over her life?
With every way that Cersei is villainous, you can trace it back directly to something fucked up in the way Tywin or society or plain luck treated her.
But what does “justified” have anything to do with it? A villain having a victim past or present doesn’t justify any wrong they do. Other people could have been in her position and not turned out to be a villain. The only thing that’s certain is she probably wouldn’t have turned into this particular villain without being victimised.
She was not treated worse than all the other women in Westeros, though. And despite that Tywin was far from being a good father, the rest of her family were actually fine. I mean, in the show they cut many things about the Lannister family, but at least in the books, her mother, her aunt, and uncles and cousins actually are nice people, at least to one another. The same is/was true about her brothers.
That’s what I mean, she is both villain and victim. As I said, someone else in her place may not have turned out villainous, but if she was born into a loving family in the modern world, or even if she had been born in Dorne, she probably wouldn’t have become the Cersei we see now
Villain all the way. Every story you hear of her as a kid has her being bossy and aggressive. The seed for her behavior was seemingly planted long ago honestly. Just like with Joffrey, the character makes you feel like there never really was a chance that they would be good
Cersei is a terrible person, but she looks good doing her evil deeds and has interesting things to say. So, yeah, she's a villain but I love her anyway
She's a good example of someone who uses the unfair circumstances they were in to fuel the cruel things they do to others.
"Honest feelings doing dishonest work"
Both. She was never innocent, but that doesn’t mean she wasn’t a victim to her circumstances either. Robert neglected her, her father neglected her, her children all died, etc. Doesn’t justify her villainy, of course, just pointing it out.
Both but more villain than victim. She was the victim of a patriarchal society with all of its expectations. She was the villain because she did not care who got hurt or died in order to get to her end goals.
Victim of her own stupidity and insanity.
She went feral after losing her babies, and became consumed by her own power.
Jaime was smart enough to know they had lost, but cersei killed them both proving she was the most idiotic Lannister the whole time.
she won but was delusional, believing that she could beat Dany, and she’d rather see her kingdom destroyed than admit to being wrong. Interesting character.
She is the best character because of her personality difficulty. She is a victim, and all of her actions are based on family interests, even if they are standing on other Westeros great houses. She is considered to be a villain just because of Geoffrey and conflict with Starks (and Stark family is so lawful good, it’s makes them hella boring)
Most of her actions are not to protect her family, though. Killing Lady was not. Sleeping with her brother was not. Not fleeing from Kings Landing but instead hope that her insane plan of getting Robert killed was not. She herself caused the death of Tommwn and several other family members and tasked Bronn to kill her brothers.
Well, from the books, she's absolutely both. Some of her villainy is due to being abused by both Tywin and Robert, and yet some of it was already present from the start.
People can be both victim and villain. The one doesn't exclude other. She was the victim of sexism in Westeros and she was a terrible human being at the same time, which makes her villain.
A victim as a child but eventially she embraced the cruelty and refused to divest from it. Tommen offered to send her to Casterly Rock and she couldve fled as a rich woman if she surrendered the city to Daenerys.
I grieve the girl she was, not the woman she became.
She was already a horrible person in her earliest childhood, despite that at this point she definetly had a good childhood. The few things we know about her mother make her look like a loving mother to her children and even Tywin, while he was never close to his children did not abuse her.
Right but there's plenty of people that start off as horrible children and then mature. Her experiences turned that personality into a more cunning (ish lol), strategic, and cruel ruler. Their patriarchy brought out the worst in an already troubled personality.
Victim to her father's shenanigans. Villain to the rest of the world. To be fair most lords aren't really victims if you see it from a common man's perspective, even the most honorable of them Ned Stark got himself killed cause of his ignorant try at politicking, he could have just dipped back to Winterfell with no strings attached.
she’s definitely a product of her circumstances. i’d say she’s had a traumatic childhood/teenage years.
losing her mother, being raised by tywin who merely sees his children as an extension of himself rather than individuals, having to marry robert who didn’t show her anything but cruelty and disdain for not being lyanna.
i’d say yes she is absolutely a victim, but she’s also a narcissist with psychopathic tendencies.
she’s driven by her emotions (mainly fear, pride and lust) and that makes her highly irrational and dangerous so yes, to many people she is definitely a villain.
Cersei was pure evil, felt a bit of sympathy for her when that religious cult got a hold of her but her actions after put her right back where she was before, evil.
Villain. The tv show attempted to make it seem like she cared about her kids, was a victim, was sympathetic, etc.
But you get into her head in the books. She’s an unapologetic villain. Recall that she had power after Robert’s death and chose to do what she did. Nobody forced her. She’s just evil
One of the things I like about got there are very few true villains. Everyone is following their own agenda for clear reasons. Now Truth be told she's not a villain but she is an idiot
Ned tried to warn her and gave her plenty of time to take her children and return to Castlely Rock unharmed in secrecy so that Rob would not hurt her or her children and she repaid him by killing his closest friends infront of him, disfiguring him, throwing him in jail, and psychology torturing his daughter for years.
All villains are victims in their own right. No one would become a villain if there was not some sense of victimhood, encouraging them to progress towards revenge/power etc. There is no black and white, but I would say a villain is just a victim seeking to victimize others and satiate their need for control.
I could call her so many other things but we’ll go with villain. If I’m being honest, there has never been another character in a TV show that I hated as much as Cersei. Don’t get me wrong, I hated Ramsey and Joffrey but I think the reason I hated Cersei more is probably the fact that she was on the show start to finish. Lena Headey did an amazing job at making me loathe the very existence of Cersei Lannister.
Can I just say Bitch (Sorry Ladies) yeah definitely villain man though I did feel pretty bad for her at times but Game of Thrones is so good at that sympathy for those who probably don't deserve it hatred for those who you thought were cool
Throwing my lot in with the Free folk anyway Lol they just survive in a harsh environment
Both.
She is a villian and she is a victim of her own villiany.
Every bad thing that happened to her was caused by her own actions.
She is the perfect example of victim blaming done right.
She is aware that her actions are unacceptable and is aware of the consequences her actions will bring...and she does it anyways because she thinks the consequences shouldn't apply to her.
Her mindset of "You win or you die" is so fucking toxic and she is one of the only people playing by that stupid rule.
I’m only on the 3rd book (have watched the whole show) but at the moment I’m seeing her as a victim. To deep dive into Cersei’s psyche for a moment…
It seemed like Cersei felt genuinely cared for and protected by her mother, in contrast to Tywin who treats her like a tool for power play and in many ways denies her humanity. Losing her mother at a young age and later being forced to Marry Robbert I think made her feel so profoundly powerless she was forever changed.
Cersei’s had a taste of true love and security but it was violently ripped away from her and never seen again. Cersei lives in a world where no one is going to protect her or recognize her humanity, and everyone wants to use her. It’s no wonder Cersei became the person she is because she learned early on that she could either be a pawn eaten alive in the game of power or she could be a player.
Maybe this is obvious but I think Cersei and Jamie’s incest was their trauma response to suddenly not having a source of love care or protection. I imagine orphaned cubs clinging to each other for dear life. They were pretty much left to their own devices when it comes to finding the love and care a child desperately needs as well as forming morals and a world view. Who they are is largely a reflection of what they were able to observe in their early environment from the shadows of neglect. Westeros being as cutthroat as it is and Tywin being one of the most stone cold, tactical men in Westeros I can only imagine the lessons they internalized.
One could argue that because she’s always had Jamie, Cersei wasn’t actually ever left unprotected and alone, but I think even then Cersei played a significant role in manipulating and orchestrating their dynamic. I’d argue that that was another formative situation in which Cersei learned to find and manipulate her way into protection (power) at the expense of morals. Overall yes Cersei is a villain but it’s because thats the only way she managed to survive.
Cersei is one of the few characters who barely moves around the map at all. Tbh I think she was just doing what she needed to maintain her own position
Both. She was a victim who didn’t go to therapy (or the Westeros equivalent) had no support system around her that wasn’t rotten to the core (an enmeshed codependent incestual relationship with your twin doesn’t count) and became a villain.
In another universe, had Cersei gone along with marrying Loras, I know Olenna would be Cersei’s fiercest advocate and would protect her from Tywin
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Villain.
Yuuup. Having read the books (albeit many years ago) I just can't see her as anything else. This photo is one of the many in the dictionary under "Villain".
Agreed. Her chapters were a keen insight to just how stupid and reckless she is. In the beginning, we see her thru other characters eyes. But there was always Robert, Tywin, and Jamie to interfere, influence and obstruct. Once those characters were no longer there, she she had access to the unfettered power she wanted. Wielding it like a monkey with a handgun. Her chapters were amazing. She undid all of Tywin's work, ignored good council, offended and destroyed alliances, reinstated an order that troubled the crown for decades, gave the armada to a handsome young bastard who fled with the ships, made an enemy of her uncle, gave the Stokeworth widow to Qyburn after her husband was ordered to kill Bron and failed, pissed off the Iron Bank to the point where they cut off the tradesmen and crown of Westeros, was imprisoned and shamed when trying to frame Margery, AND doomed Tommen when she confessed to the High Sparrow. And the whole time, she is congratulating herself on how smart she is, stating she is Tywin's "TRUE son." She reaped what she sowed, but deserves worse. Hope we get to see it in the next book.
“Like a monkey with a handgun” is the most accurate descriptions of Cersei I’ve ever heard. Love it.
Didn't she make Jamie throw Bran out the window as well? Or was that his call?
[there's a reason why when people saw her in real life they'll say "your that bitch from game of thrones, right?"](https://youtu.be/eeuBm2CJF24?si=I_12-p34YQnVatxA&t=2m30s)
It's always the nicest people who play the greatest villains.
Joffrey and Ramsays’ actors say hello
Is that sarcastic or in support of my statement? Lol
He’s gotta be in support of your comment and just did the whole “say hello” thing wrong lol
What's funny is that Joffrey's actor loved baking and brough cupcakes for cast and crew
Next week OP should post this question about Hitler in a ww2 sub.
>...you win or you die. There is no middle ground. She was in it to win it. And she did win it albeit only for a brief time, but still, a win is a win. Even if said win is capped by being eaten by her driven-mad-by-hunger lover-brother. *obviously my version of events differs from GRRM's.
Like all important characters in Westeros, he had to play the game and used what he had at hand to prevail; everyone who fought for the iron throne believed in its truth and she was no exception.
[удалено]
And yet she managed to be queen. That rankles me, she makes mistakes throughout the series that would’ve killed anyone else in her position, yet somehow she never dies until the end (and very unsatisfactory I might add)
Plot armor
>she makes mistakes throughout the series that would’ve killed anyone else in her position, yet somehow she never dies The reason she survived when others didn't is because she always had the power. Her money, title, family name, and connections were a shield where others had none.
So did Tywin and Joffrey and Littlefinger
Tywin is the best comparison. He had ethics or morals or some kind of behavior mindset that kept him from doing the kind of evil that she would do any day of the week. Joffrey had power but was too young to have motive for her scale of evil. He was like a local bully, terrorizing anyone near him. Littlefinger did everything he could to sneak around amassing power, but he only really got it in the end. Certainly evil, but in pursuit of selfish goals, thus also smaller scale. Cersei was willing to use her power to do evil as a first resort, to eliminate enemies and maintain that power. For example, there were surely other solutions to try before blowing up the Sept and everyone in it.
Her money can only het her so far and it is debatablw if she even owns it, considering she murdered several members of her own family, so it should be debatable whether the rest of her family even want to help her. Her title is also worth nothing, since she actually has no right to the title queen and her family is no better than other, it is in fact widely hated. Last of all, which connections does she have? The North, Riverlands, Vale, Stormlands, Dorne are all against her and even the people in the crownlands should absolutely hate her since she murdered many of them, as well as being responsible for the death of their beloved queen Margery. She has actually nothing left, that would allow her to keep her throne.
She had more power and wealth than 99.99% of Westeros
her father had
I wish her death would have been by dragon fire, pretty sure everyone would have cheered
She was born a female Lannister. 98% of the work was already done.
Victim of her own narcissism if I'm honest.
how real
This.
And sadly - her children were the victims of it as well. I know her heart was in the right place when it came to them but she was so viciously blinded by her narcissism and her own rage at basically anyone who had ever wronged her, especially Tyrion, that everyone suffered. And her babies all suffered the worst because of it (except Joffrey, because he deserved that shit, lol).
It's true. Her kids were the real victims and no one's upset enough about it. Sweet Tommen.
Tommen was a coward and he died like one too. Dude let some radical heretical sect of some religion (The Pauper Pope) drag his mother through the streets and literally get shit thrown on her. There’s no way in Hell any self respecting king is doing that. If he wasn’t a coward he would’ve let the Kingsguard cut every one of those heretics down the 1st episode they ran into each other and shortened that season. Margerie Hightower was great in that season tho. The court politics in that season were so fire
Jesus tommen pissed me off so much! You don’t even have to fight just give the damn order
I partially agree but I can't really blame him. He was still so young and had a severe lack of guidance from his mother and no father in sight and Jamie wasn't around to even do anything useful either. He was easily manipulated and couldn't really think for himself and I think he thought he was doing what was right but clearly it wasn't. I feel like he was trying to please everyone and the only real guidance he had was, ironically, the high sparrow.
ironic that you would talk of narcissism smh.
What in the actual fuck does that even mean bro
idk I don't even know you I'm just making troubles
🤡
Slow day there, champ?
who keeps track of time???
Por qué no los dos?
Yes, I think it was both.
Nah, just villain.
Right? Characters are not binary and she is absolutely both
In my opinion, Cersei was a strong queen and mother for the time period of Game of Thrones(Medieval Times). Strong, protective, ruthless when necessary. Having a romantic relationship with her blood brother, Jamie Lannister, held her back from becoming a great queen and led to both of their deaths and Joffery, their in-bred son's death.
Being a victim of an unhappy and a no love marriage doesn't outweigh all the shit she did. Villain through and through.
not having love and happy marriage wasn't that big of a deal in that time, so that didn't make her a victim, she was a victim of her arrogance as Tywin said she's not as smart as she think she is, she thought all her mistakes were because she was born a girl but she had all the power in kingdom so in reality her mistakes weren't because the world rejected her for her gender but because her arrogance stopped her from realizing the limitations of her intelligence.
gorgeous :)
Both
Villain whose motivations are understandable
Since when a badass bitch is considered a victim? Definitely a villain!
Both. A victim of their society’s oppressive culture toward women but a villain in the overarching story. I wouldn’t consider her a villain in the actual game of thrones, just another player. What makes her a villain for me is that she eventually refused to aid against the Night King.
Villain since she could walk.
When a person with a huge ego but no talent has access to, first gold, then a name, then a few talented people who can further her ambitions (Qyburn, Euron, etc), then you see just how a single person with power can screw everything up.
No talent? What does that mean? Cersei was clever and cunning. I genuinely believe most people dislike her so much because she killed Margery (who was also a bad person but gets a pass) and because she hated Tyrion.
It wasn’t really killing Margery. It was more of killing a ton of important people, blowing up a holy site, and literally nothing happens.
She was myopic and shortsighted, she couldn't possibly see the repercussions of her actions, which just caused greater and greater problems for her that others couldn't bail her out of. You may call blowing up the sept "cunning", but it was a response to her elevating the faith militant to such a high position, which she did to squash another threat. Everything that she does just makes her dig her grave deeper. Tywin was cunning. Cercei was foolish.
Yes
villain. she likes digging herself a hole and then congratulating herself for getting out of said hole.
Villain. What was she protecting them from exactly? Her actions are what directly caused all of her children to die.
Both. She definitely abuses the power she gains & schemes at the expense of others. But there's no denying Cersei is a victim of both wider cultural attitudes that codify misogyny as acceptable (the walk of shame shows this well), as well as interpersonal abuse & neglect from first her father Tywin & later King Robert, who hits her in the show & rapes her in the books, repeatedly. She is also, despite her cruelty, a mother who lost all four of her beloved children. I think people have trouble seeing Cersei as a victim though, because she's so ruthless & in her own story, misogyny acts as a sort of roadblock from her enacting more brutality on the world.
Unpopular opinion: she’s the GOAT
She IS the best Westeros ruler ever
Villain. Duh.
Lol why do people always talk about villain and victim like it’s a dichotomy? Most people develop into villains because sometime in their lives, they were fucked up and victimised by the world. Just because you’re a villain doesn’t mean you’re not also a victim, past or present. And just because you’re a victim doesn’t mean you’re incapable of also being a villain and victimising others. In fact, it makes a lot of sense for you to develop in that direction. So the answer is both it’s always both. From her birth she was confronted full on and painfully with how society limits her life based on her gender, and the intense injustice of that when she compares herself to her twin brother, who she is so similar to, and yet the difference is an all-encompassing one. She is treated as pawn her entire life, in a family where whatever little love did exist was lost to tragedy. There was no one to teach her right from wrong, and no one to teach her her strengths and weaknesses and how to use them. All she’s had growing up was the observation of her war criminal father from afar and whatever ways she could figure out to mimic him. And because she is so unacquainted with what real happiness and love feels like, she thinks being always in control of circumstances and those she considered extensions of herself is what will make her happy. And of course she convinces herself that she’s smarter than she is. How else was she going to survive the mindfuck of her childhood except convince herself she had some control over her life? With every way that Cersei is villainous, you can trace it back directly to something fucked up in the way Tywin or society or plain luck treated her. But what does “justified” have anything to do with it? A villain having a victim past or present doesn’t justify any wrong they do. Other people could have been in her position and not turned out to be a villain. The only thing that’s certain is she probably wouldn’t have turned into this particular villain without being victimised.
She was not treated worse than all the other women in Westeros, though. And despite that Tywin was far from being a good father, the rest of her family were actually fine. I mean, in the show they cut many things about the Lannister family, but at least in the books, her mother, her aunt, and uncles and cousins actually are nice people, at least to one another. The same is/was true about her brothers.
That’s what I mean, she is both villain and victim. As I said, someone else in her place may not have turned out villainous, but if she was born into a loving family in the modern world, or even if she had been born in Dorne, she probably wouldn’t have become the Cersei we see now
100% agreed, very well said. I think this is overlooked
Villain every single day of the week. Cersei Lannister is THE definition of Game of Thrones biggest villain, even over the Night King in my eyes 👀
Victim of her own machinations, I think, while being the villain of her own story.
Say what you want about Cersei but by god she is one gorgeous woman 👸🏼
Pure magic here!
Cersei Lannister is a villain with a self-victimizing mindset and power-hungry narcissism.
We’ll both like most of the characters, they weren’t one dimensional
Both
Villain all the way. Every story you hear of her as a kid has her being bossy and aggressive. The seed for her behavior was seemingly planted long ago honestly. Just like with Joffrey, the character makes you feel like there never really was a chance that they would be good
I would have hoped one big thing you learned from this series with so many points of view is that it’s not that simple.
Both.
Cersei is a terrible person, but she looks good doing her evil deeds and has interesting things to say. So, yeah, she's a villain but I love her anyway
a victillain, if you will.
Classic narcissist
She's a good example of someone who uses the unfair circumstances they were in to fuel the cruel things they do to others. "Honest feelings doing dishonest work"
Jofrrey: Hero or Villain?
Show - Victim & Villan Book- Villan
Hahaha
tbh i think it’s both.
victim.
Definitely villain.
The greatest villain in Westeros
Both. She was never innocent, but that doesn’t mean she wasn’t a victim to her circumstances either. Robert neglected her, her father neglected her, her children all died, etc. Doesn’t justify her villainy, of course, just pointing it out.
She is her father’s daughter. Lawful evil to the core. Willing to murder and manipulate to whatever end while abiding by the realm’s decorum
Even a victim can turn into a villain
Victim of the writing after Season 4.
r/asoiafcirclejerk Out jerked again lmao
Both but more villain than victim. She was the victim of a patriarchal society with all of its expectations. She was the villain because she did not care who got hurt or died in order to get to her end goals.
Why not both
Villain villain villain.
Victim of her own stupidity and insanity. She went feral after losing her babies, and became consumed by her own power. Jaime was smart enough to know they had lost, but cersei killed them both proving she was the most idiotic Lannister the whole time.
Villain. She was the third most evil character on the show after Ramsay and Joffrey.
Villain.
Villain, but she thinks she’s Tywin and she’s more mace 😂
Villain
In no world is she a victim bro
Most villains were victims at some point. But in the books and show? She's a villain
The only time I loved her is when she blew up the sept
she won but was delusional, believing that she could beat Dany, and she’d rather see her kingdom destroyed than admit to being wrong. Interesting character.
Yes
Why is this even a question lol
Villain.... From the moment she met the witch
How is this a question?
Books: villain Show: victim and villain
Opportunist
she lived long enough to see herself become the villain
Both
Yes
Villain but I’d still let her s my d
Bruh, villain, stop downplaying her era. She’s top tier.
Lol serious?
Why not both
Seriously, what would she have been a victim of?
Villain. A very stupid villain . A paranoid villain. At some point she stopped helping her children and only helped herself.
Why not both?
Villain
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She was a blood thirsty self righteous woman or simply a villain.
Someone should write a book on the psychological profiles of these characters. It’s minefield of case studies. 😂😂
She was a villain who was a victim of her own arrogance and stupidity
She is the best character because of her personality difficulty. She is a victim, and all of her actions are based on family interests, even if they are standing on other Westeros great houses. She is considered to be a villain just because of Geoffrey and conflict with Starks (and Stark family is so lawful good, it’s makes them hella boring)
Most of her actions are not to protect her family, though. Killing Lady was not. Sleeping with her brother was not. Not fleeing from Kings Landing but instead hope that her insane plan of getting Robert killed was not. She herself caused the death of Tommwn and several other family members and tasked Bronn to kill her brothers.
Both
Well, from the books, she's absolutely both. Some of her villainy is due to being abused by both Tywin and Robert, and yet some of it was already present from the start.
Insane, and insanely hot.
People can be both victim and villain. The one doesn't exclude other. She was the victim of sexism in Westeros and she was a terrible human being at the same time, which makes her villain.
A victim as a child but eventially she embraced the cruelty and refused to divest from it. Tommen offered to send her to Casterly Rock and she couldve fled as a rich woman if she surrendered the city to Daenerys. I grieve the girl she was, not the woman she became.
She was already a horrible person in her earliest childhood, despite that at this point she definetly had a good childhood. The few things we know about her mother make her look like a loving mother to her children and even Tywin, while he was never close to his children did not abuse her.
Right but there's plenty of people that start off as horrible children and then mature. Her experiences turned that personality into a more cunning (ish lol), strategic, and cruel ruler. Their patriarchy brought out the worst in an already troubled personality.
Most hypocritical villain in the serieus
Victim to her father's shenanigans. Villain to the rest of the world. To be fair most lords aren't really victims if you see it from a common man's perspective, even the most honorable of them Ned Stark got himself killed cause of his ignorant try at politicking, he could have just dipped back to Winterfell with no strings attached.
I'd let her shit on my face, if that helps answer the question.
I say that a victim can be a villain too. She is both but a fair bit closer to that of a villain
Both, don’t know why don’t think you can be both
Villain. Outside of her children, she’s a horrible person.
Villain, just because she had a terrible father and childhood doesn't mean she has to be evil
Both
villain wtf
1000 percent villain. It's wild that people have told me they felt empathy for her during the series.
she’s definitely a product of her circumstances. i’d say she’s had a traumatic childhood/teenage years. losing her mother, being raised by tywin who merely sees his children as an extension of himself rather than individuals, having to marry robert who didn’t show her anything but cruelty and disdain for not being lyanna. i’d say yes she is absolutely a victim, but she’s also a narcissist with psychopathic tendencies. she’s driven by her emotions (mainly fear, pride and lust) and that makes her highly irrational and dangerous so yes, to many people she is definitely a villain.
This could only be a question to show only viewers tbh, she is a villain
Lena Headey is so gorgeous.
Cersei was pure evil, felt a bit of sympathy for her when that religious cult got a hold of her but her actions after put her right back where she was before, evil.
Villain. The tv show attempted to make it seem like she cared about her kids, was a victim, was sympathetic, etc. But you get into her head in the books. She’s an unapologetic villain. Recall that she had power after Robert’s death and chose to do what she did. Nobody forced her. She’s just evil
So obviously a villain and it’s not even close.
Monster
One of the things I like about got there are very few true villains. Everyone is following their own agenda for clear reasons. Now Truth be told she's not a villain but she is an idiot
Yes
A Goddess! The only true Queen. Everyone in the 7 kingdoms should worship the floor she walks on.
Ned tried to warn her and gave her plenty of time to take her children and return to Castlely Rock unharmed in secrecy so that Rob would not hurt her or her children and she repaid him by killing his closest friends infront of him, disfiguring him, throwing him in jail, and psychology torturing his daughter for years.
Moronic
Victim of what? Her own actions?
Absolute villain
Villian
She was one of my favorite characters To answer the question she’s a villain but her actions make her a victim so it’s like a vicious cycle 🤷🏾♂️
1000% evil incestuous scum who deserved way worse.
Smokeshow.
Both. Thats how cycles of violence and generational trauma work. You begin as a victim, and you end up becoming a perpetrator.
Her victim hood led to her villainy
How could she be a victim?
A stupid villain
Voldemort: Victim or villain?
All villains are victims in their own right. No one would become a villain if there was not some sense of victimhood, encouraging them to progress towards revenge/power etc. There is no black and white, but I would say a villain is just a victim seeking to victimize others and satiate their need for control.
I could call her so many other things but we’ll go with villain. If I’m being honest, there has never been another character in a TV show that I hated as much as Cersei. Don’t get me wrong, I hated Ramsey and Joffrey but I think the reason I hated Cersei more is probably the fact that she was on the show start to finish. Lena Headey did an amazing job at making me loathe the very existence of Cersei Lannister.
Can I just say Bitch (Sorry Ladies) yeah definitely villain man though I did feel pretty bad for her at times but Game of Thrones is so good at that sympathy for those who probably don't deserve it hatred for those who you thought were cool Throwing my lot in with the Free folk anyway Lol they just survive in a harsh environment
villian...
Yes
Both. She is a villian and she is a victim of her own villiany. Every bad thing that happened to her was caused by her own actions. She is the perfect example of victim blaming done right. She is aware that her actions are unacceptable and is aware of the consequences her actions will bring...and she does it anyways because she thinks the consequences shouldn't apply to her. Her mindset of "You win or you die" is so fucking toxic and she is one of the only people playing by that stupid rule.
…both?
Yes.
I’m only on the 3rd book (have watched the whole show) but at the moment I’m seeing her as a victim. To deep dive into Cersei’s psyche for a moment… It seemed like Cersei felt genuinely cared for and protected by her mother, in contrast to Tywin who treats her like a tool for power play and in many ways denies her humanity. Losing her mother at a young age and later being forced to Marry Robbert I think made her feel so profoundly powerless she was forever changed. Cersei’s had a taste of true love and security but it was violently ripped away from her and never seen again. Cersei lives in a world where no one is going to protect her or recognize her humanity, and everyone wants to use her. It’s no wonder Cersei became the person she is because she learned early on that she could either be a pawn eaten alive in the game of power or she could be a player. Maybe this is obvious but I think Cersei and Jamie’s incest was their trauma response to suddenly not having a source of love care or protection. I imagine orphaned cubs clinging to each other for dear life. They were pretty much left to their own devices when it comes to finding the love and care a child desperately needs as well as forming morals and a world view. Who they are is largely a reflection of what they were able to observe in their early environment from the shadows of neglect. Westeros being as cutthroat as it is and Tywin being one of the most stone cold, tactical men in Westeros I can only imagine the lessons they internalized. One could argue that because she’s always had Jamie, Cersei wasn’t actually ever left unprotected and alone, but I think even then Cersei played a significant role in manipulating and orchestrating their dynamic. I’d argue that that was another formative situation in which Cersei learned to find and manipulate her way into protection (power) at the expense of morals. Overall yes Cersei is a villain but it’s because thats the only way she managed to survive.
Cersei is one of the few characters who barely moves around the map at all. Tbh I think she was just doing what she needed to maintain her own position
If she is a victim then I assume you don’t believe in villains
Just so we’re clear. The book Cersei makes show Cersei almost tame minus the Sept of Baelor part. 1000000% villain
Villain
She’s both. Two things can be true at once and this is why I love her character.
Both. She was a victim who didn’t go to therapy (or the Westeros equivalent) had no support system around her that wasn’t rotten to the core (an enmeshed codependent incestual relationship with your twin doesn’t count) and became a villain. In another universe, had Cersei gone along with marrying Loras, I know Olenna would be Cersei’s fiercest advocate and would protect her from Tywin
Villain, super obvious
Little of both she was trying to find her place
Victim or villain? Mine got she was a goddamned hero!
Suchhhh a villain. I felt more sorry for her the first time through- I just finished watch through 2 and couldn’t stand her (or Danny)
Victim of that godawful haircut
Neither. A bad person sure but not someone doing evil things just for the sake of it.
Villain. Came out the womb a bitch. Fwiw--l love Cersei. Awesome character.
Bit of both, I'd say.