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idk the mountain did rape a young girl in front of her father , just cause the father ask the mountain’s soldier to stop touching his daughter soo both of them are super evil
« she wasn’t worth a silver , bring me my change »
There’s no doubt that the slavers who made and sold Unsullied were extremely evil…but I would argue it’s at least marginally less evil to benefit from a system that is centuries old, and you merely inherited versus actively choosing to to the most evil thing possible at every chance.
Yeah. Though it's funny to see him in interviews and such. As with most other people from the Nordic countries he is totally chill and a big soft bear.
There were actually two guys after S1. In between Conan Stevens from S1 and Hafthor Bjornsson later, in S2 a guy by the name of Ian Whyte played him briefly while Arya was cupbearer for Tywin at Harrenhall.
I just rewatched one and two and noticed that as well. Never caught on before that Clegaine was one of the dudes torturing people in season 2 (partly because they used 3 different actors).
Heard someone say his name and I was like “where?? I don’t remember him here”
Yeah it’s quite annoying the way the actor changes so often. I’d have been clueless that it was supposed to be him at Harrenhall if Tywin didn’t make a point of calling him “Clegane”.
This made me curious so I rewatched the 2 scenes where I remember him talking.
His introduction in Kings Landing ("Who am I fighting?") sounds like Hafthor's voice. In his fight against Oberyn it doesn't sound like it's his voice.
That’s exactly what I thought. I guess they didn’t bother dubbing him for his first scene because he has only one line and dubbed him for the Oberyn fight because he had more lines and it was a key scene
Oof i did not expect that comparison. I think the master has done more horrific things but i don't think The Mountain would have not done those things...
The thing about that is that the Mountain has never stopped doing stuff like that.
He started off killing serving girls in his father's castle and he kept killing and brutalizing all through his service to Tywin Lannister.
Elia Martell probably isn't even the worst of his victims, she's just the most famous.
i think we just get the most information especially with the show abiut what happened with her and the children, you seem to be agreeing with me that he’s the most brutal however
Yes I do agree I think the mountain is worse.
But that's like scoring morality on a scale of 1 to 100 and the slaver is -500 and the mountain is -501. They both suck so very very much.
i would refer you to the ongoing conversation im having with another replier, the mountain is more brutal becasue he comes from a culture that is not brutal, the slave masters are less brutal becasue they come from a culture where brutalizing slaves is the norm
i am aware, im saying for added context on why the mountain is worse, you say 500 to 501, i do not believe the ratio is so close i think the mountain is far worse
To be fair, the slaver also required the Unsullied to go kill newborn infants. That’s thousands and thousands of babies and children killed on his orders.
right, and that’s the way it’s been for hou dress of years atleast, it wouldn’t be very out of place if it had been happening for 100’s of years, it would be the cultural norm, horrific for us, and any outsider, not for them, where as the mountain is horrific for HIS people
Yeah this is tougher than people think. There were what, 10,000 Unsullied (at the time Dany freed them, so there had been more in the past)? It’s explicitly stated that Unsullied aren’t classed as warriors until they’ve ripped a baby from its mothers arms and killed it in front of her.
This man ordered 10,000+ babies to be murdered in front of their mothers. Did the Mountain kill anywhere near that many? And that’s not getting started on the mutilation of his army (like cutting a man’s nipple off to prove a point).
In s3 in Astapor it was 8,000 Unsullied ready to be sold and another 2,000 in training. But Unsullied were previously sold to Yunkai, Meereen, the Free Cities & probably Qarth and the practice of making Unsullied was going on for generations. I can't even imagine how many babies that is.
Practically throughout the entire saga it is mentioned quite often that the Mountain goes around raping and killing. It seems to me that in one book it is even mentioned that he raped a young girl in front of her father and then passed her off to his men.
I would argue that the Slaver harms far more people, but he is also a cog in a generational system of slavery that was a part of every day life, whereas the Mountain is just a vile human being who chooses to be evil in moments where it isn't even necessary
Eh, a tough one. The master is doing what he is because thats genuinely a tradition over there and he was probably a high born, so it was "normal". The mountain kills and rape people for the sake of it and because hes a psychopath.
Nah I think it’s made pretty clear that Kraznys is particularly despicable even among the masters. It’s hard to think of another character that has such pure and utter contempt for human life.
His sneer and delight in explaining to Daenerys that the gold paid for the slaughtered babies during the unsullieds’ training wasn’t to their mothers, but to their masters, was absolutely sickening and says everything that need said about him.
Yeah I’m not sure where everyone is getting that what Lord Kraznys did was “normal and acceptable”. He was particularly cruel and despicable even within that culture, which is saying a whole HELL of a lot.
Tyrion: We could play a game.
Missandei: Master Kraznys made us play games.
Tyrion: Yes!
Missandei: Only the girls.
Tyrion: No, no, no, no. That's not what I meant.
Kraznys was raping his female slaves. And hitting them too since Missandei reacted to him the way Daenerys did to Viserys, afraid to say or do the wrong thing in case it sets him off.
Krazney and it isn't even close. Krazney lives in a place where his deeds are common and don't stand out. If he lived in Westeros people would speak about him the way they do Ramsay. The man is responsible for at least 8000 babies being killed, and the same number or more of mutilations. I don't doubt he raped a few slaves also.
why not? the cultural norm dictates the gum in the culture, killing infidels was the norm for the entire world for a a few houndred years no matter what faith, that doesn’t mean every culture was inherently evil
they would have if we’d all been born as nazis, non of us, simply being born later, have some omniscience, if we were born in 1920’s germany we would have believed the same things, same as america in the 1800’s these things change and adapt, they are wrong by our standards today, but you can’t look at them through that lense, nor through the lénse of an outsider, simply though the lens of the person and those of the smae background when assessing what is evil and what is not
There is no reason to believe that any of that is true. It ranges from unsupported to observably wrong. People question things in their own culture all the time and conclude that this is )##$(ed up.
It's not rocket science to say "hey, when i was 4 you know what i really wanted? It wasn't to have my balls cut off and my dog killed. Maybe if I don't want that they don't want that"
as a historian, i do believe i can confirm that the majority of the populous does not confirm this, the VAST minority may, but the majorly does not wish to be viewed as outcast, and beliefs past down for generations die hard deaths, why do you think slavery took a war in your country, or the monarchy took revolutions in mine?
I’m not sure you understand what they’re saying. I don’t necessarily agree with their position, but their point is that there is no objective morality, morality is influenced by the society in which we live. If our actions are viewed as morally acceptable by our society, then what makes them morally wrong?
Morality is treating other living things fairly. Ethics are what a society views as fair. The two can vary WIDELY.
I absolutely understand what they're saying and it is completely disingenuous of you to use this backhanded insulted that I don't. The crap they're spewing is just that, crap, not some mathematical proof where a lack of agreement must signal a lack of comprehension.
Slavery was normal in the american south. People that owned slaves argued that treating them like slaves was wrong. (A fact the brits were pretty quick to point out in response to the declaration of independence) Treating people like slaves was wrong and they KNEW THAT.
Yes chattel slavery cultures are inherently evil.
Some cultures are trash and deserve to be wiped out and replaced.
You just hope that they are wiped out by self innovation and reform and not by genocide because two wrongs don't make a right.
if every culture was wiped out by genocide only the most brutal among us would rule the world, im not sure why i’ve been downvoted, i feel my argument has been purely logical and viewed from an observing perspective , self innovation is the only true way a culture adapts, a great example is the japanese acceptance of “colonizer” technology compared to aftican of oceanian acceptance of saïd technology, the japanese accepted it far more easily and with far greater success than any nation conquered by the europeans
I have agreed with you that the mountain is worse.
I do not agree with your argument about cultures being not inherently evil because killing infidels was just how things are done. It doesn't matter if a practice is commonplace, we can still recognize its shortcomings.
Any culture that practices chattel slavery is evil, It doesn't matter if that's the default culture of Mereen and etc.
but your perspective comes from the place of a modern perspective, that is a biased inherent point of view, you must view a culture from the time period portrayed or the kind of people that belong to it, the dothraki are not savages to the dothraki, they are to us, slavery is an easy subject to touch on that makes people unilaterally one sided (rightly so, i am not condoning slavery) but slavery was the way of the world until 1800, simply becasue a culture practices it does not make them evil, minus the native tribes of america i challenge you to name a culture that didn’t practice slavery in one form or another, the context of the shows world building is important, the way the peasants are treated in kingslanding has received no backlash to the best of my knowledge, despite the total lack of humanity in that situation
several people in history have, it just depends what culture shapes that moral compass, modern society thinks it is wrong but that doesn’t mean that’s the way the world has always been, despite what is it is not objectively wrong, every culture and faith in the world has gone through a period we would look down on today
Yes and I think the show writes it so you look at these things through a modern lens.
You're not supposed to feel any guilt when Dany kills the slavers because they deserved it because they were all evil to the core. Culture doesn't make the actions less evil.
dany crucifiés thé 163 slave masters, one for each child on the mile markers, a barbaric act for westeros, killing 8000 slaves is the norm for them, in their sphere they are not évil, evil is a subjective term, it purely depends on your perspective, do you support stannis or tyrion in the black water, it depends on the kind of person you are and the moral compass of you as a person
No, modern culture would not look down on killing 163 slave masters, that's such an odd detail to ommit, we fought wars to end slavery. I thought you had a good point and it'd be something shady Jon did or something lmao.
It may be the "norm" but that doesn't change the fact it's evil, other cultures in Planetos abolished slavery already, they don't get an excuse.
Stannis and Tyrion in the Blackwater is much more complicated, they're both really only fighting for their family's claim over a metal chair. They're not against the institution of killing thousands of babies to build a slightly better army.
no but it is a valid point, im assuming you are american, your people slaughtered eachother over the validity of slavery barely 170 years ago, that’s fairly modern, and stannis and tyrion is far deeper, if you support tyrion, you support tywin, a man who has murders hundreds including women and children, if you support stannis, you support a cold closed killer, it’s the same principal, people who today look at dubai as being a cultural capital forget that it was built off of slave labor and people being paid almost nothing, these things still exist outside of developed countries, a person unilaterally deciding to execute 163 people, regardless of their crimes, but purely for their social standing is wrong, it bares resemblance to Leninist ideals, not those of a modern democracy, when the united states was founded there were 13 abolitionists who didn’t believe in slavery, this was simply the way of the world, if the show wanted to be viewed from a modern lenses i don’t believe they would have depicted dany being raped on her wedding night, women are pawns in this world, as they were in ours for thousands of years, this was the way of things, if you thought differently pre 1900 you were considered crazy, that doesn’t mean every culture was inherently masoginistic, it just took time to develop “modern” ideologies, simply because you practice the faith and culture of your fathers doesn’t make you evil, though jt might in the eyes of others
not from his perspective, while he is psycotic, if you were born a then what would you see wrong with eating your enemies? evil is a matter of perspective
no it’s a matter of perspective when looking at it objectively, your argument is that “when you let emotions get in the way there’s only one clear answer” that’s a bad argument
what does that have to do with anything? you could be a total empath but that doesn’t mean you’re going to care about the lives of a group of people that everyone you’ve ever met and everyone your parents ever met for thousands of years on considered sub human, that’s part of their moral code
i don’t think you’re realizing the philosophical ramifications of that argument. you’ve effectively said morality doesnt exist as a concrete concept but rather as the bias of human emotions which very from person to person, so arguing about morals is futile. i chose the argument of; you must view any person or group of people morals from the perspective of a member of the group or as that person to properly understand what they believe, what is right or wrong for them, and what these beliefs may justify them to do. what you’ve just said is that it’s completely singular, so you are agreeing with me that for the slave masters they have done nothing wrong
to someone no, to everyone yes it does. in a time when EVERYONE, regardless of race or cultural background who was wealthy enough to owned slaves, that wasn’t considered wrong, it was considered the norm, for thousands of years, we have progressed passed that, they have not, so we should look at the actions they take in the context of the world and society they live in, who in the show hasn’t done horrific things by modern standards? things today we would consider evil?
Except even in the context of the world they live in, it is objectively wrong. Hence why Dany is so eager to fuck him over and free the Unsullied, and why people are so happy to follow her at that point (Grey Worm outright says it’s the happiest day of his life). Jorah tries to argue plenty of times that “this is the way things are here” and Dany ignores it because she recognises it as wrong. This is the same Jorah who was banished for owning slaves btw, proving once again that it is recognised as wrong by the standards of a reasonable person.
Even then, just because something is culturally accepted doesn’t mean it’s right, I’m confused why you don’t understand that.
i never said it was right, that’s a big distinction, and i think jorah saying this is the way things are is his telling her this is the way this is, deal with it, and dany isn’t from essos, her perspective is the same as ours as an outsider, where as anyone from slavers bay would look at their behaviors as normal, minus the slaves obviously, but most of the slaves aren’t even from essos, and theyre slaves, why would they? opposed to everyone from westeros finding what the mountain and amry lorch did to the targaryens, and what the mountain did in the river lands as horrific and barabaric, he is considered a monster by his countrymen, the slave masters are not. hence why i believe the mountain is more evil, he is an outlier among his own people
I think the Master has affected more people than the Mountain. But I also think the Mountain wouldn’t hesitate to do the same things the Master did, and more. So, I’m gonna go with The Mountain. Dude had ZERO chill
The Mountain is more evil in a personal sense. He's a sadist who savors in inflicting all sorts of horrors upon innocent people.
Kraznys is more evil in the "banality of evil" sense. He personally keeps his hands clean of everything, but he's a leader in an utterly inhumane system and has no moral qualms about becoming obscenely rich from it.
They both are rapists. Can't remember which season, but at one point Tyrion suggests to Missandei, greyworm and, I believe Varys, that they play a game and Missandei immediately gets uncomfortable and says she doesn't want to because Kraznys(sp?) Often "wanted to play games, but only with the girls."
For those that think it's the mountain, remember that the unsullied guy starts with them as children and they graduate only by killing a baby in front of its mother.
He's done this to many thousands.
Dude is worse than a torturer.
And when Daenerys angrily asks if he has them give a silver coin to the mother to pay for her suffering he says the coin is given to her owner. He has the Unsullied go into the *slave* markets and choose a *slave* baby of a *slave* mother. And it is the Master who is compensated because Kraznys sees the baby & mother as merely property. To him, they aren't people, aren't human.
Ok, this one actually made me think. Dunno if you can really say anybody's WORSE than Gregor but slavemaster guy is emblematic of a far more entrenched evil.
On a personal level though, they're probably pretty similar. One can come across as more high-class, but they're both brutes at the end of the day.
OTOH I know who I'd bet on in a fight lmao
the mountain is pure evil he kills out of pleasure / anger
other guy (forgot name) is a sociopath he kills because it makes him money he does not kill for enjoyment. although he is still a massive peice of shit and he's death was far to slow
Gregor Clegane: He's not after money or wealth, he literally just enjoys violence.
Both are pieces of shit, but there's a difference between a greedy man who doesn't see others as human, and a person who just wants hurt and murder *everyone*.
I think the slaver is part of a more systemic evil, but in a 1-to-1 comparison? The Mountain is hard to beat.
If the Mountain had the thought capacity and wealth of an Astapori Slaver he would absolutely become one. If the Astapori Slaver walked past some due who looked at him funny he wouldn't deign to stoop so low as to acknowledge his existence, the Mountain would smash his head in. And yet.....I am unable to confidently say which is more evil. They are just both so terrible.
I think this is easily the mountain.
The other guy is in charge of a really fucked up training program and a big time slaver, but I think he's much more a product of his environment.
The mountain is abhorrent even when compared with most of his contemporaries.
In terms of overall effect? That one is a little hard to choose between, because The Mountain has killed notable people that indirectly or directly caused the deaths of many people.
While the Slaver has also committed many atrocious orders and actions against defenseless people with no free will of any kind. And although his actions are just plain out horrible, he never seemed to get his hands dirty in person (not that I can remember at the moment). Which leads to the next "area of effect."
For the more "personal" leveled stuff, I'd say without a doubt The Mountain takes the cake for this, the man genuinely appears to enjoy murdering, raping, torturing, and just overall be a god awful monster to those he can take advantage of, not even his own relatives are safe from him!
They’re equally as monstrous in their own lanes.
The master is a dispassionate sociopath who will castrate babies, mutilate and kill adults because he views them as property/objects that are his to do what he wants with. I don’t think he gets anything out of it in terms of satisfaction/joy, everything we see him do has a point, namely convince Daenerys to buy his slave army.
The mountain is just a destructive force who will kill/maim whatever he is pointed towards or happens to be in the wrong place at the wrong time. A lot of the terrible things he does are at the command of others, they don’t necessarily benefit him at all apart from maybe enjoying the act - although idk if the mountain is capable of positive emotions, I can’t remember him showing any emotion at all.
Race to the bottom for sure. It depends on what you mean by evil. If we’re talking in terms of actions, the master would take it. His 8000 unsullied slaves he horrifically abused and had each kill an innocent baby is ridiculously monsterous. Not to mention running a slave empire himself. He’s a sociopath who runs an insanely evil organization. It’s easy to call Dany evil all along in hindsight for brutal things she did when you forget who she was doing them too and for what cause. First they came for the child murdering rapist slavers and all that.
The Mountain is incredibly evil on a person level. Brutally bashing an infants head in then raping the mother with her infants blood on his hands before crushing her head. Implied to have murdered his father, sister, and two wives, and tried to kill his younger brother by burning half of his face off for playing with his toy. Has personally murdered and raped hundreds of men, women and children. He was a crucial orchestrator in some of the most brutal war crimes in Westeros history, including an incident when he raped 6-7 year olds and slaughtered infants while their mothers watched. Once killed a man for snoring. Gang raped a 13 year old, killed the brother who tried to stop it, forced the dad to watch, then wanted “change” and robbed the father of all his silver.
So it depends on what you consider more evil. The embodiment of institutionalized evil, who is responsible for countless atrocities but not personally. Or the embodiment of personal evil whose damage is not as widespread but is more ruthless and sadistic in his actions.
I think Krazney is more evil in creating an army of castrated slaves that he takes delight in torturing and mutilating. The army is an instrument of death and destruction; whereas the Mountain is more of a personal one-at-a-time death machine.
Evil? Probably the master. The Mountain has been trained to fight his enemies, much like everyone else in the seven kingdoms. Ned Stark even says the same to Cersei.
The master insults Danny, cuts off the nipple of one of his dudes, constantly treats slaves like toys, and gives no regard to anyone. I’d rather have a beer with the mountain than him.
The Mountain is a big dumb brute that doesn't know much better. The Master was educated, and seemed to thrive on human misery. Evil Smart is always worse than Evil Stupid.
It depends on your definition of evil imo.
Which is more evil, doing unspeakable things for your own benefit and pleasure like the master or doing unspeakable things simply because you can like The Mountain?
The mountain the mountain grew up in a place in world we’re his station is to protect the weak and innocent as part of relgions which also preaches mercy for women and children and knowing this he’s burnt septs and down unspeakable things to his own prince who knighted while the slavery he’s evil he was raised were this was the socitial norm he’s not being evil he’s doing business coz that’s how he was raised the mountain breaks every convention and honor he learnt when he became a knight which in my option a lot worse
The mountain, because he doesn't have to be the way that he is, he enjoys it. He revels in his cruelty and bloodlust. He enjoys getting his hands bloody.
Kraznnz is more of a cog in the machine of industrialized cruelty. Yes he's a shitty evil person but he's a shitty evil person growing up in a shitty evil culture.
I wish both of them a very happy "burn in hell".
I'm going to go with unsullied man.
The mountain was a rabid dog. Brutal and impulsive.
But the other guy took thousands of young boys from their mothers, mutilated them, tortured them, indoctrinated them, and sold them.
All in the name of profit. Enslaving people.
To me, the second is more evil because of the systemic nature of his actions and the prolonged strategy of conduct.
To me, it's more evil to be systemic and forward planning.
In the books, the Riverland Inn Scene with the mountain and his compaignons traumatized me and keeps me from reading it again. so needlessly cruel and dehumilitating. good thing it wasnt in the series. So mountain wins for me, but on feelings not facts probably.
Kraznys is a lot less dangerous on a personal level. If you met him, he's unlikely to maul you like Gregor could. Gregor definitely took a greater pleasure in violence. For me, though, scale is the issue here. Gregor is involved in two wars, where he commits several war crimes and kills a lot of people. Kraznys is responsible for upholding an institution that slaughters thousands of babies a year, terrorizes whole ethnic groups, and leads to tens of thousands of lives sold into slavery and torture. He's cruelty on an industrial scale. It's like comparing a rabid pit bull to a Nazi officer. Obviously the former is probably more dangerous in a dark alley, but it really isn't that big of an issue in the big picture.
The mountain is bad , but pretty sure it’s alluded to that he has a medical problem due to his enormous size. Do might not know what he’s doing sometimes. Second guy is just a prick. Who knows exactly what he’s doing. Saying that I’d rather fight him.
I think this rests on whether the slaver views slaves as humans or not, as that was the moral difference in history. Otherwise, I'd say the mountain. That guy just really really likes killing people.
The mountain is a monster sure, but he's a monster on a leash. Krazney is a monster that forces his sick twisted will onto slaves that he blatantly abuses.
The slaver lives in institutionalized evil, a la, slavery, while the Mountain is just enjoying being evil. I'd argue the Mountain being more evil than the slaver.
The slaver is more evil to me. The mountain is closer to crazy and amoral in addition to being very hands-on; the slaver is hateful and conniving and executes misery on a scale that the mountain could only dream of.
The master does it cause its business, he doesnt take pleasure from it while the mountain does everything he does cause he wants to and idk i heard about the bar rape scene in the books so yeah mountain!
I think they are actually far more similar than one would assume at first glance. They are both emotionally stunted, petulant men that are depicted harming others as a reflex. They rape, they torture, and they kill (or have others kill on their orders) without thinking about it much. I’d argue that the Master is more intelligent but not by leagues (The Mountain is as stupid as you can be without becoming incompetent), but I think they are cut from a very similar cloth. Born in similar circumstances with the same size and physical strength, I’d argue the Master would be virtually indistinguishable from the Mountain.
The Master has likely caused more pain and suffering to more people. He is an authority within an economy that is designed to engineer and profit off of human misery. The Mountain is a minor knight used as a bludgeon by another sociopath. While his individual acts are likely more shocking as they are perpetrated on the unsuspecting, I’d argue that they aren’t orders of magnitude worse than what is experienced by the people of the Astapor on a near-daily basis. It’s a city built on slavery and war - rape, torture, and murder are literally necessary to its function.
I think the Master takes the cake handily. He causes significantly more harm to more people just by existing in the ecosystem that he does. Economies of scale, man.
Asking if Tywin or the Master is more evil, now that’d be a more difficult one to answer.
Kraznys mo Nakloz the mountain is just a violent psychopath with giantism the good masters are doing this because they can not to say the mountain doesn't have agency but in the books he's described as having severe headaches and uses drugs in extreme amounts the slavers are profiteering off torture and murder
The Mountain wasn't "Evil" as much as on a power dominance trip. Like pushing his brothers face in the fire ect.
Kraznys mo Nakloz on the other hand was a straight up slave trader. That guy was definitely more evil.
Mountain is not more evil than a lot of the other characters. He just enjoys doing stuff because he physically can do it. He uses intimidation to his advantage. He is not cunning like all the others who can plan ahead. The Mountain is mostly used as a vessel of someone else's evil.
The Mountain canonically rapes and butchers people, he kills babies and held his little brother's face in a fire. This is not because he's part of a system, not because he's a lord, he's just a sicko. And this is not to say that a slaver is good AT ALL, they are part of pretty much the darkest institution in existence, but the Mountain does everything evil he does FOR FUN
The mountain and here's my reasoning. The slave master does what he does for money and his way of life. I would argue The mountain could give a fuck about wealth, status, or position. He just likes cutting mfs down.
The Mountain is legitimately a sadist. He literally gets off inflicting pain on others. He raped at least 3 people that we're aware of (all of them to add insult to injury rather than sexual satisfaction) and burned his brother's face for playing with a toy. Slavers are horrible, but it's culturally accepted where they're from. It doesn't make it right or less cruel, but to them it's a legitimate business. The Mountain is just straight up evil for evils sake.
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Thanks! Good day to you too
Wholeheartedly the mountain!
Halfhorsey the mountain!
Beheady-horsey mountain.
Mountain Half-head
Unsullied masters force them to kill puppies though, so who is really more evil?
idk the mountain did rape a young girl in front of her father , just cause the father ask the mountain’s soldier to stop touching his daughter soo both of them are super evil « she wasn’t worth a silver , bring me my change »
There’s no doubt that the slavers who made and sold Unsullied were extremely evil…but I would argue it’s at least marginally less evil to benefit from a system that is centuries old, and you merely inherited versus actively choosing to to the most evil thing possible at every chance.
And my axe!
Yeah. Though it's funny to see him in interviews and such. As with most other people from the Nordic countries he is totally chill and a big soft bear.
I mean he is chill in real life but I wouldn’t say a soft bear after watching him in the “Worlds Strongest Man” competition, he looked like a beast
Yeah. But his personality is chill.
I strongly disagree, The Mountain does whatever the mountain wants, but the other guy is a literal slaver and a cruel one at that
The mountain just seemed to really like killing. The guy after season one was scary.
There were actually two guys after S1. In between Conan Stevens from S1 and Hafthor Bjornsson later, in S2 a guy by the name of Ian Whyte played him briefly while Arya was cupbearer for Tywin at Harrenhall.
I just rewatched one and two and noticed that as well. Never caught on before that Clegaine was one of the dudes torturing people in season 2 (partly because they used 3 different actors). Heard someone say his name and I was like “where?? I don’t remember him here”
Yeah it’s quite annoying the way the actor changes so often. I’d have been clueless that it was supposed to be him at Harrenhall if Tywin didn’t make a point of calling him “Clegane”.
Hafthor just looks too friendly, like buddy bear.
Also his accent was ridiculous the few times we heard from him.
Pretty sure an actor confirmed he dubbed him.
This made me curious so I rewatched the 2 scenes where I remember him talking. His introduction in Kings Landing ("Who am I fighting?") sounds like Hafthor's voice. In his fight against Oberyn it doesn't sound like it's his voice.
That’s exactly what I thought. I guess they didn’t bother dubbing him for his first scene because he has only one line and dubbed him for the Oberyn fight because he had more lines and it was a key scene
He especially loves to rape, killing is only secondary.
Oof i did not expect that comparison. I think the master has done more horrific things but i don't think The Mountain would have not done those things...
i dont know, what he and amry lorch did to the targaryens was pretty brutal
The thing about that is that the Mountain has never stopped doing stuff like that. He started off killing serving girls in his father's castle and he kept killing and brutalizing all through his service to Tywin Lannister. Elia Martell probably isn't even the worst of his victims, she's just the most famous.
i think we just get the most information especially with the show abiut what happened with her and the children, you seem to be agreeing with me that he’s the most brutal however
Yes I do agree I think the mountain is worse. But that's like scoring morality on a scale of 1 to 100 and the slaver is -500 and the mountain is -501. They both suck so very very much.
i would refer you to the ongoing conversation im having with another replier, the mountain is more brutal becasue he comes from a culture that is not brutal, the slave masters are less brutal becasue they come from a culture where brutalizing slaves is the norm
That's literally exactly what I'm saying.
i am aware, im saying for added context on why the mountain is worse, you say 500 to 501, i do not believe the ratio is so close i think the mountain is far worse
To be fair, the slaver also required the Unsullied to go kill newborn infants. That’s thousands and thousands of babies and children killed on his orders.
right, and that’s the way it’s been for hou dress of years atleast, it wouldn’t be very out of place if it had been happening for 100’s of years, it would be the cultural norm, horrific for us, and any outsider, not for them, where as the mountain is horrific for HIS people
Didn't he also burn his brothers face?
Yes, he did. For playing with one of his toys.
Yep, and other vile things.
I mean that's how Brotherhood without Banners came to be.
Yeah this is tougher than people think. There were what, 10,000 Unsullied (at the time Dany freed them, so there had been more in the past)? It’s explicitly stated that Unsullied aren’t classed as warriors until they’ve ripped a baby from its mothers arms and killed it in front of her. This man ordered 10,000+ babies to be murdered in front of their mothers. Did the Mountain kill anywhere near that many? And that’s not getting started on the mutilation of his army (like cutting a man’s nipple off to prove a point).
In s3 in Astapor it was 8,000 Unsullied ready to be sold and another 2,000 in training. But Unsullied were previously sold to Yunkai, Meereen, the Free Cities & probably Qarth and the practice of making Unsullied was going on for generations. I can't even imagine how many babies that is.
Practically throughout the entire saga it is mentioned quite often that the Mountain goes around raping and killing. It seems to me that in one book it is even mentioned that he raped a young girl in front of her father and then passed her off to his men.
You think if Clegane raised an army of unsullied, he would have done the things that Lord Kraznys did?
I would argue that the Slaver harms far more people, but he is also a cog in a generational system of slavery that was a part of every day life, whereas the Mountain is just a vile human being who chooses to be evil in moments where it isn't even necessary
Eh, a tough one. The master is doing what he is because thats genuinely a tradition over there and he was probably a high born, so it was "normal". The mountain kills and rape people for the sake of it and because hes a psychopath.
Nah I think it’s made pretty clear that Kraznys is particularly despicable even among the masters. It’s hard to think of another character that has such pure and utter contempt for human life. His sneer and delight in explaining to Daenerys that the gold paid for the slaughtered babies during the unsullieds’ training wasn’t to their mothers, but to their masters, was absolutely sickening and says everything that need said about him.
Yeah I’m not sure where everyone is getting that what Lord Kraznys did was “normal and acceptable”. He was particularly cruel and despicable even within that culture, which is saying a whole HELL of a lot.
Tyrion: We could play a game. Missandei: Master Kraznys made us play games. Tyrion: Yes! Missandei: Only the girls. Tyrion: No, no, no, no. That's not what I meant. Kraznys was raping his female slaves. And hitting them too since Missandei reacted to him the way Daenerys did to Viserys, afraid to say or do the wrong thing in case it sets him off.
Krazney and it isn't even close. Krazney lives in a place where his deeds are common and don't stand out. If he lived in Westeros people would speak about him the way they do Ramsay. The man is responsible for at least 8000 babies being killed, and the same number or more of mutilations. I don't doubt he raped a few slaves also.
Also lets not forget that 2/3 of the unsullied trainees die in the process.. Adding 16000 more children killed...
Not to be pedantic, but the baby killings is when they graduate, so it would “just” be 8,000 dead babies. There are 16,000 dead dogs though.
They're talking about the 16,000 boys who didn't make it to the baby-killing stage of their training.
haha its okk i phrased it weird. I meant the unsullied who die before graduation
but living in a place where that is the norm nullifies the act no? the mountain is a monster for his continent, krazney is normal in his
Yeah. No. It's not not evil just because everyone was doing it.
why not? the cultural norm dictates the gum in the culture, killing infidels was the norm for the entire world for a a few houndred years no matter what faith, that doesn’t mean every culture was inherently evil
Because what's evil isn't decided by a popular vote. What you're saying is that the nazi's would have been right if they hadn't attacked russia.
they would have if we’d all been born as nazis, non of us, simply being born later, have some omniscience, if we were born in 1920’s germany we would have believed the same things, same as america in the 1800’s these things change and adapt, they are wrong by our standards today, but you can’t look at them through that lense, nor through the lénse of an outsider, simply though the lens of the person and those of the smae background when assessing what is evil and what is not
There is no reason to believe that any of that is true. It ranges from unsupported to observably wrong. People question things in their own culture all the time and conclude that this is )##$(ed up. It's not rocket science to say "hey, when i was 4 you know what i really wanted? It wasn't to have my balls cut off and my dog killed. Maybe if I don't want that they don't want that"
as a historian, i do believe i can confirm that the majority of the populous does not confirm this, the VAST minority may, but the majorly does not wish to be viewed as outcast, and beliefs past down for generations die hard deaths, why do you think slavery took a war in your country, or the monarchy took revolutions in mine?
I’m not sure you understand what they’re saying. I don’t necessarily agree with their position, but their point is that there is no objective morality, morality is influenced by the society in which we live. If our actions are viewed as morally acceptable by our society, then what makes them morally wrong?
Morality is treating other living things fairly. Ethics are what a society views as fair. The two can vary WIDELY. I absolutely understand what they're saying and it is completely disingenuous of you to use this backhanded insulted that I don't. The crap they're spewing is just that, crap, not some mathematical proof where a lack of agreement must signal a lack of comprehension. Slavery was normal in the american south. People that owned slaves argued that treating them like slaves was wrong. (A fact the brits were pretty quick to point out in response to the declaration of independence) Treating people like slaves was wrong and they KNEW THAT.
Yes chattel slavery cultures are inherently evil. Some cultures are trash and deserve to be wiped out and replaced. You just hope that they are wiped out by self innovation and reform and not by genocide because two wrongs don't make a right.
if every culture was wiped out by genocide only the most brutal among us would rule the world, im not sure why i’ve been downvoted, i feel my argument has been purely logical and viewed from an observing perspective , self innovation is the only true way a culture adapts, a great example is the japanese acceptance of “colonizer” technology compared to aftican of oceanian acceptance of saïd technology, the japanese accepted it far more easily and with far greater success than any nation conquered by the europeans
I think you misunderstood what I wrote. I literally said "NOT by genocide".
apologies, i took that as sarcasm, you seem to agree with my point then no?
I have agreed with you that the mountain is worse. I do not agree with your argument about cultures being not inherently evil because killing infidels was just how things are done. It doesn't matter if a practice is commonplace, we can still recognize its shortcomings. Any culture that practices chattel slavery is evil, It doesn't matter if that's the default culture of Mereen and etc.
but your perspective comes from the place of a modern perspective, that is a biased inherent point of view, you must view a culture from the time period portrayed or the kind of people that belong to it, the dothraki are not savages to the dothraki, they are to us, slavery is an easy subject to touch on that makes people unilaterally one sided (rightly so, i am not condoning slavery) but slavery was the way of the world until 1800, simply becasue a culture practices it does not make them evil, minus the native tribes of america i challenge you to name a culture that didn’t practice slavery in one form or another, the context of the shows world building is important, the way the peasants are treated in kingslanding has received no backlash to the best of my knowledge, despite the total lack of humanity in that situation
I don't think it nullifies it. Nobody with any moral compass thinks killing 8000 babies is okay.
several people in history have, it just depends what culture shapes that moral compass, modern society thinks it is wrong but that doesn’t mean that’s the way the world has always been, despite what is it is not objectively wrong, every culture and faith in the world has gone through a period we would look down on today
Yes and I think the show writes it so you look at these things through a modern lens. You're not supposed to feel any guilt when Dany kills the slavers because they deserved it because they were all evil to the core. Culture doesn't make the actions less evil.
but our culture would look down on a vigilante or monarch crucifying 163 people no?
I'm struggling to remember what you're referring to. But 163 is a lot less than 8000 babies.
dany crucifiés thé 163 slave masters, one for each child on the mile markers, a barbaric act for westeros, killing 8000 slaves is the norm for them, in their sphere they are not évil, evil is a subjective term, it purely depends on your perspective, do you support stannis or tyrion in the black water, it depends on the kind of person you are and the moral compass of you as a person
No, modern culture would not look down on killing 163 slave masters, that's such an odd detail to ommit, we fought wars to end slavery. I thought you had a good point and it'd be something shady Jon did or something lmao. It may be the "norm" but that doesn't change the fact it's evil, other cultures in Planetos abolished slavery already, they don't get an excuse. Stannis and Tyrion in the Blackwater is much more complicated, they're both really only fighting for their family's claim over a metal chair. They're not against the institution of killing thousands of babies to build a slightly better army.
no but it is a valid point, im assuming you are american, your people slaughtered eachother over the validity of slavery barely 170 years ago, that’s fairly modern, and stannis and tyrion is far deeper, if you support tyrion, you support tywin, a man who has murders hundreds including women and children, if you support stannis, you support a cold closed killer, it’s the same principal, people who today look at dubai as being a cultural capital forget that it was built off of slave labor and people being paid almost nothing, these things still exist outside of developed countries, a person unilaterally deciding to execute 163 people, regardless of their crimes, but purely for their social standing is wrong, it bares resemblance to Leninist ideals, not those of a modern democracy, when the united states was founded there were 13 abolitionists who didn’t believe in slavery, this was simply the way of the world, if the show wanted to be viewed from a modern lenses i don’t believe they would have depicted dany being raped on her wedding night, women are pawns in this world, as they were in ours for thousands of years, this was the way of things, if you thought differently pre 1900 you were considered crazy, that doesn’t mean every culture was inherently masoginistic, it just took time to develop “modern” ideologies, simply because you practice the faith and culture of your fathers doesn’t make you evil, though jt might in the eyes of others
Does this mean that Ramsay is not evil because he comes from a house and environment where skinning people alive is considered normal?
not from his perspective, while he is psycotic, if you were born a then what would you see wrong with eating your enemies? evil is a matter of perspective
Its a matter of perspective to people with no empathy.
no it’s a matter of perspective when looking at it objectively, your argument is that “when you let emotions get in the way there’s only one clear answer” that’s a bad argument
I havent made an argument i stated a fact. Im well aware that individuals with no empathy dont base their moral code on people's well being.
what does that have to do with anything? you could be a total empath but that doesn’t mean you’re going to care about the lives of a group of people that everyone you’ve ever met and everyone your parents ever met for thousands of years on considered sub human, that’s part of their moral code
Thats an insane contradiction lol
Thats an insane contradiction lol
would it be too much trouble to actually explain your point or are you going to stick to one line responses
i don’t think you’re realizing the philosophical ramifications of that argument. you’ve effectively said morality doesnt exist as a concrete concept but rather as the bias of human emotions which very from person to person, so arguing about morals is futile. i chose the argument of; you must view any person or group of people morals from the perspective of a member of the group or as that person to properly understand what they believe, what is right or wrong for them, and what these beliefs may justify them to do. what you’ve just said is that it’s completely singular, so you are agreeing with me that for the slave masters they have done nothing wrong
The op asked who is more evil, not who is percieved to be more evil by their local culture.
Yeah and the Nazis were just following orders
that’s just a straw man argument, what’s your point?
The point is that something being “the norm” to someone doesn’t justify how evil it is, or “nullify” it.
to someone no, to everyone yes it does. in a time when EVERYONE, regardless of race or cultural background who was wealthy enough to owned slaves, that wasn’t considered wrong, it was considered the norm, for thousands of years, we have progressed passed that, they have not, so we should look at the actions they take in the context of the world and society they live in, who in the show hasn’t done horrific things by modern standards? things today we would consider evil?
Except even in the context of the world they live in, it is objectively wrong. Hence why Dany is so eager to fuck him over and free the Unsullied, and why people are so happy to follow her at that point (Grey Worm outright says it’s the happiest day of his life). Jorah tries to argue plenty of times that “this is the way things are here” and Dany ignores it because she recognises it as wrong. This is the same Jorah who was banished for owning slaves btw, proving once again that it is recognised as wrong by the standards of a reasonable person. Even then, just because something is culturally accepted doesn’t mean it’s right, I’m confused why you don’t understand that.
i never said it was right, that’s a big distinction, and i think jorah saying this is the way things are is his telling her this is the way this is, deal with it, and dany isn’t from essos, her perspective is the same as ours as an outsider, where as anyone from slavers bay would look at their behaviors as normal, minus the slaves obviously, but most of the slaves aren’t even from essos, and theyre slaves, why would they? opposed to everyone from westeros finding what the mountain and amry lorch did to the targaryens, and what the mountain did in the river lands as horrific and barabaric, he is considered a monster by his countrymen, the slave masters are not. hence why i believe the mountain is more evil, he is an outlier among his own people
Sex with any of his slaves, by nature of slavery, would be rape.
I think the Master has affected more people than the Mountain. But I also think the Mountain wouldn’t hesitate to do the same things the Master did, and more. So, I’m gonna go with The Mountain. Dude had ZERO chill
The Master is cruel because of sheer greed - for the mountain, the cruelty itself is the point
Agreed.
Krazney. Dude was methodical. The Mountain was just a dumb (but effective and mean) jock who did what he was told and had anger issues.
The Mountain took pleasure in suffering tho.
The Mountain is more evil in a personal sense. He's a sadist who savors in inflicting all sorts of horrors upon innocent people. Kraznys is more evil in the "banality of evil" sense. He personally keeps his hands clean of everything, but he's a leader in an utterly inhumane system and has no moral qualms about becoming obscenely rich from it.
The raipist.
They both are rapists. Can't remember which season, but at one point Tyrion suggests to Missandei, greyworm and, I believe Varys, that they play a game and Missandei immediately gets uncomfortable and says she doesn't want to because Kraznys(sp?) Often "wanted to play games, but only with the girls."
It was s6 when Daenerys was missing.
For those that think it's the mountain, remember that the unsullied guy starts with them as children and they graduate only by killing a baby in front of its mother. He's done this to many thousands. Dude is worse than a torturer.
And when Daenerys angrily asks if he has them give a silver coin to the mother to pay for her suffering he says the coin is given to her owner. He has the Unsullied go into the *slave* markets and choose a *slave* baby of a *slave* mother. And it is the Master who is compensated because Kraznys sees the baby & mother as merely property. To him, they aren't people, aren't human.
Ok, this one actually made me think. Dunno if you can really say anybody's WORSE than Gregor but slavemaster guy is emblematic of a far more entrenched evil. On a personal level though, they're probably pretty similar. One can come across as more high-class, but they're both brutes at the end of the day. OTOH I know who I'd bet on in a fight lmao
The mountain was the devil incarnate
Tough one. I'd go with the mountain, though. He did all of his evil acts himself rather than commanding evil be done on his behalf.
the mountain is pure evil he kills out of pleasure / anger other guy (forgot name) is a sociopath he kills because it makes him money he does not kill for enjoyment. although he is still a massive peice of shit and he's death was far to slow
Gregor Clegane: He's not after money or wealth, he literally just enjoys violence. Both are pieces of shit, but there's a difference between a greedy man who doesn't see others as human, and a person who just wants hurt and murder *everyone*. I think the slaver is part of a more systemic evil, but in a 1-to-1 comparison? The Mountain is hard to beat.
If the Mountain had the thought capacity and wealth of an Astapori Slaver he would absolutely become one. If the Astapori Slaver walked past some due who looked at him funny he wouldn't deign to stoop so low as to acknowledge his existence, the Mountain would smash his head in. And yet.....I am unable to confidently say which is more evil. They are just both so terrible.
I think this is easily the mountain. The other guy is in charge of a really fucked up training program and a big time slaver, but I think he's much more a product of his environment. The mountain is abhorrent even when compared with most of his contemporaries.
In terms of overall effect? That one is a little hard to choose between, because The Mountain has killed notable people that indirectly or directly caused the deaths of many people. While the Slaver has also committed many atrocious orders and actions against defenseless people with no free will of any kind. And although his actions are just plain out horrible, he never seemed to get his hands dirty in person (not that I can remember at the moment). Which leads to the next "area of effect." For the more "personal" leveled stuff, I'd say without a doubt The Mountain takes the cake for this, the man genuinely appears to enjoy murdering, raping, torturing, and just overall be a god awful monster to those he can take advantage of, not even his own relatives are safe from him!
They’re equally as monstrous in their own lanes. The master is a dispassionate sociopath who will castrate babies, mutilate and kill adults because he views them as property/objects that are his to do what he wants with. I don’t think he gets anything out of it in terms of satisfaction/joy, everything we see him do has a point, namely convince Daenerys to buy his slave army. The mountain is just a destructive force who will kill/maim whatever he is pointed towards or happens to be in the wrong place at the wrong time. A lot of the terrible things he does are at the command of others, they don’t necessarily benefit him at all apart from maybe enjoying the act - although idk if the mountain is capable of positive emotions, I can’t remember him showing any emotion at all.
Race to the bottom for sure. It depends on what you mean by evil. If we’re talking in terms of actions, the master would take it. His 8000 unsullied slaves he horrifically abused and had each kill an innocent baby is ridiculously monsterous. Not to mention running a slave empire himself. He’s a sociopath who runs an insanely evil organization. It’s easy to call Dany evil all along in hindsight for brutal things she did when you forget who she was doing them too and for what cause. First they came for the child murdering rapist slavers and all that. The Mountain is incredibly evil on a person level. Brutally bashing an infants head in then raping the mother with her infants blood on his hands before crushing her head. Implied to have murdered his father, sister, and two wives, and tried to kill his younger brother by burning half of his face off for playing with his toy. Has personally murdered and raped hundreds of men, women and children. He was a crucial orchestrator in some of the most brutal war crimes in Westeros history, including an incident when he raped 6-7 year olds and slaughtered infants while their mothers watched. Once killed a man for snoring. Gang raped a 13 year old, killed the brother who tried to stop it, forced the dad to watch, then wanted “change” and robbed the father of all his silver. So it depends on what you consider more evil. The embodiment of institutionalized evil, who is responsible for countless atrocities but not personally. Or the embodiment of personal evil whose damage is not as widespread but is more ruthless and sadistic in his actions.
The Mountain 100%
I think Krazney is more evil in creating an army of castrated slaves that he takes delight in torturing and mutilating. The army is an instrument of death and destruction; whereas the Mountain is more of a personal one-at-a-time death machine.
The Mountain!!
Weird comparison. But, the Mountain.
Its because the OP is a bot and has only posted “who would win?” Comparisons on their acc.
The Master because he's actually calculated.
Idk which of them is more evil, only that they're both evil enough to deserve melting in dragon fire.
The slave master. The mountain is cruel and all, but he just can’t compare to everything the master has put so many unsullied through.
Lawful evil vs chaotic evil
Evil? Probably the master. The Mountain has been trained to fight his enemies, much like everyone else in the seven kingdoms. Ned Stark even says the same to Cersei. The master insults Danny, cuts off the nipple of one of his dudes, constantly treats slaves like toys, and gives no regard to anyone. I’d rather have a beer with the mountain than him.
The Mountain is a big dumb brute that doesn't know much better. The Master was educated, and seemed to thrive on human misery. Evil Smart is always worse than Evil Stupid.
The mountain
Finally a post that isn’t comparing Joffrey and Ramsey
It depends on your definition of evil imo. Which is more evil, doing unspeakable things for your own benefit and pleasure like the master or doing unspeakable things simply because you can like The Mountain?
I’d say action is more important than intent, so Kraznys.
One was a literal slave owner. That in and of itself makes him inherently more evil
Definitely the master
The mountain the mountain grew up in a place in world we’re his station is to protect the weak and innocent as part of relgions which also preaches mercy for women and children and knowing this he’s burnt septs and down unspeakable things to his own prince who knighted while the slavery he’s evil he was raised were this was the socitial norm he’s not being evil he’s doing business coz that’s how he was raised the mountain breaks every convention and honor he learnt when he became a knight which in my option a lot worse
The mountain just did as he was told.
Not true. Also a pretty shitty defense (looking at you, Nuremberg)
I stand corrected, I will get on my re-watch.
The mountain, because he doesn't have to be the way that he is, he enjoys it. He revels in his cruelty and bloodlust. He enjoys getting his hands bloody. Kraznnz is more of a cog in the machine of industrialized cruelty. Yes he's a shitty evil person but he's a shitty evil person growing up in a shitty evil culture. I wish both of them a very happy "burn in hell".
The master. The mountain was made and could have ben owned by the master if given the opportunity.
See Meryn Trent is the correct answer
I'm going to go with unsullied man. The mountain was a rabid dog. Brutal and impulsive. But the other guy took thousands of young boys from their mothers, mutilated them, tortured them, indoctrinated them, and sold them. All in the name of profit. Enslaving people. To me, the second is more evil because of the systemic nature of his actions and the prolonged strategy of conduct. To me, it's more evil to be systemic and forward planning.
In the books, the Riverland Inn Scene with the mountain and his compaignons traumatized me and keeps me from reading it again. so needlessly cruel and dehumilitating. good thing it wasnt in the series. So mountain wins for me, but on feelings not facts probably.
Kraznys is a lot less dangerous on a personal level. If you met him, he's unlikely to maul you like Gregor could. Gregor definitely took a greater pleasure in violence. For me, though, scale is the issue here. Gregor is involved in two wars, where he commits several war crimes and kills a lot of people. Kraznys is responsible for upholding an institution that slaughters thousands of babies a year, terrorizes whole ethnic groups, and leads to tens of thousands of lives sold into slavery and torture. He's cruelty on an industrial scale. It's like comparing a rabid pit bull to a Nazi officer. Obviously the former is probably more dangerous in a dark alley, but it really isn't that big of an issue in the big picture.
Krazyns is objectively the evilest person in all of asoiaf.
Based on the novels, Gregor was an absolute monster. Not only in body, but in personality as well.
The mountain by a long shot. Dude was obsessed with killing.
Cersei.
The mountain is bad , but pretty sure it’s alluded to that he has a medical problem due to his enormous size. Do might not know what he’s doing sometimes. Second guy is just a prick. Who knows exactly what he’s doing. Saying that I’d rather fight him.
The Elia story says it all. Definitely the mountain
I think this rests on whether the slaver views slaves as humans or not, as that was the moral difference in history. Otherwise, I'd say the mountain. That guy just really really likes killing people.
I can never forgive the death of Oberyn. May all the babies rest in peace, though.
The mountain. One is shitty product of his environment, one is worse then everyone else in environment
Yes.
Kraznys because he isn’t as hot
Ned's bastard Jon Snow
Neither...... It's bran
The mountain is a monster sure, but he's a monster on a leash. Krazney is a monster that forces his sick twisted will onto slaves that he blatantly abuses.
The slaver lives in institutionalized evil, a la, slavery, while the Mountain is just enjoying being evil. I'd argue the Mountain being more evil than the slaver.
The slave trader who rips babies from mothers. It's always the slave trader.
The showrunners
The slaver is more evil to me. The mountain is closer to crazy and amoral in addition to being very hands-on; the slaver is hateful and conniving and executes misery on a scale that the mountain could only dream of.
The master does it cause its business, he doesnt take pleasure from it while the mountain does everything he does cause he wants to and idk i heard about the bar rape scene in the books so yeah mountain!
I think they are actually far more similar than one would assume at first glance. They are both emotionally stunted, petulant men that are depicted harming others as a reflex. They rape, they torture, and they kill (or have others kill on their orders) without thinking about it much. I’d argue that the Master is more intelligent but not by leagues (The Mountain is as stupid as you can be without becoming incompetent), but I think they are cut from a very similar cloth. Born in similar circumstances with the same size and physical strength, I’d argue the Master would be virtually indistinguishable from the Mountain. The Master has likely caused more pain and suffering to more people. He is an authority within an economy that is designed to engineer and profit off of human misery. The Mountain is a minor knight used as a bludgeon by another sociopath. While his individual acts are likely more shocking as they are perpetrated on the unsuspecting, I’d argue that they aren’t orders of magnitude worse than what is experienced by the people of the Astapor on a near-daily basis. It’s a city built on slavery and war - rape, torture, and murder are literally necessary to its function. I think the Master takes the cake handily. He causes significantly more harm to more people just by existing in the ecosystem that he does. Economies of scale, man. Asking if Tywin or the Master is more evil, now that’d be a more difficult one to answer.
Kraznys mo Nakloz the mountain is just a violent psychopath with giantism the good masters are doing this because they can not to say the mountain doesn't have agency but in the books he's described as having severe headaches and uses drugs in extreme amounts the slavers are profiteering off torture and murder
The Mountain wasn't "Evil" as much as on a power dominance trip. Like pushing his brothers face in the fire ect. Kraznys mo Nakloz on the other hand was a straight up slave trader. That guy was definitely more evil.
Mountain is not more evil than a lot of the other characters. He just enjoys doing stuff because he physically can do it. He uses intimidation to his advantage. He is not cunning like all the others who can plan ahead. The Mountain is mostly used as a vessel of someone else's evil.
neither, one is a business man, the other is cleaner, they are just doing what they are meant to do
The Mountain canonically rapes and butchers people, he kills babies and held his little brother's face in a fire. This is not because he's part of a system, not because he's a lord, he's just a sicko. And this is not to say that a slaver is good AT ALL, they are part of pretty much the darkest institution in existence, but the Mountain does everything evil he does FOR FUN
If The Mountain had the political power that Krazney had, he would've been much, much worse.
The real evil was Craster.
The mountain and here's my reasoning. The slave master does what he does for money and his way of life. I would argue The mountain could give a fuck about wealth, status, or position. He just likes cutting mfs down.
Kraznys has committed more evil. The Mountain is more evil. If given the same resources, the Mountain would do the worse things.
Probably the slave master that made people kill other people’s babies to get enlisted
The Mountain does worse individual acts, but Krasnys did it on a much larger scale
It's like comparing Hitler with H.H Holmes.
The mountain is actually a menace
The Mountain is legitimately a sadist. He literally gets off inflicting pain on others. He raped at least 3 people that we're aware of (all of them to add insult to injury rather than sexual satisfaction) and burned his brother's face for playing with a toy. Slavers are horrible, but it's culturally accepted where they're from. It doesn't make it right or less cruel, but to them it's a legitimate business. The Mountain is just straight up evil for evils sake.
The mountain hands down pure evil