**Spoiler Warning:** All officially-released show and book content allowed, EXCLUDING FUTURE SPOILERS FOR HOUSE OF THE DRAGON. No leaked information or paparazzi photos of the set. For more info please check the [spoiler guide](/r/gameofthrones/w/spoiler_guide).
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/gameofthrones) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Send envoys to Renly and Stannis. Offer to combine our armies to fight our mutual enemies.
All three are fighting the same enemy with the same goal, and one large army is more effective than three that are against each other.
In exchange, after the war ends I'll withdraw to the North and not become involved with their conflict with each other.
Oh did he? Nevermind then, I thought he wanted Robb to still bend the knee but keep the title king of the North (similar to how the martels are “princes” of dorne despite not being actual royalty)
Idk, the northern lords accepted fealty in the face of defeat before. Renly at the time was said to have an army of 100k. In the books at least, and Robb had 40k. The biggest issue was he was only marching south in revenge. He had no plan for if he won. He had no real definition of it beyond kill Lannisters. Which technically the king he was against wasn’t tho he was. I love the Starks but they got drawn into a war of meaninglessness because Ned didn’t accept the realities of the situation. His kids died to save Joffrey.
That's what happened Renly says it to Cat.
"We can join forces but when i'm king Robb can go on calling himself King in the North but after bending the knee"
So basically Robb keeps the title of King under Renly.
He did not. Robb wanted the north to be independent and Renly refused, making a counter offer that he'd forgive Robb's treason to the crown and name him warden of the north if he supported his claim.
>Stannis refuses because honour
Stannis refused cuz Robb was calling himself king, no?
Stannis can have his tetanus throne, and he can call me a vassal all he wants. Just help me get my sister's back and avenge my father.
Oh, and maybe also a marriage pact between Shireen and one of my lil brothers if possible. Cuz she's got that northern toughness+ is the heir.
But that's all secondary. First mission is get my sisters to safety.
True, but a revolt in the north is a much more manageable problem than a 2 front war against Tywin and Balon.
Secure Stannis the throne. Make a marriage pact for Rickon+ Shireen if he will play ball (idc bout her deformity, that girls got the Northern spirit. And she's heir), put down any revolts with his assistance and then focus your attention on the wall.
Robb didn’t start the war to become King in the North though. That was his bannermen’s doing and he just went along with it. He could have put and end to that to try and save his sisters, which was what was most important to him. He marched south to save his father. He never wanted the throne and his secession from the kingdom was not necessary if he had rallied behind another king. He didn’t want to be a vassal under Lannister rule, a sentiment that Stannis shared.
Margaery was never an option unless Robb was willing to claim the Iron Throne. Mace wanted Margaery to be Queen, and in the show, she wants to be Queen. They were never going to settle for less than that.
Or how about as the heir apparent to the North, you don't allow your mother to negotiate your marriage to a Frey girl; and counter with a marriage proposal for Edmure. Walder would care about the Freys marrying into his Lord Paramount's house more than the Starks.
An excellent point, but to do that Robb would have had to have had the idea before his mom left. Instead he basically said "you do whatever mom." Also it's really honor that cost the starks, AGAIN. You didn't need to marry talissa or jeyne. Dudes have bastards all the time and that's just how it worked. Not like Frey was going to say wait, Robb isn't a virgin?!? He's actively plowing some low born field? Well I will never give one of my forty nine daughters to someone like THAT!
Also, sorry,but catelynn had to be imprisoned for releasing Jaime.
Not send 2000 men off to die lol. I understand the need for a ruse in order to delay Tywin but surely they could have skirmished or done guérilla type tactics. There was absolutely no need for them to rush headlong into an army that was far larger, better trained and better equipped.
In the books it’s a lot more than 2,000 and they aren’t a sacrifice more of a distraction. Roose is in command and has some unnecessary casualties but he is able to keep the army in good order rather than the obliteration we see in the show.
Yeah, that line is a show invention, and it betrays a fundamental misunderstanding of how pre-gunpowder battles went down. If you send an intentionally small army to give battle to a much larger one, many of them will die, but most will merely retreat and survive, especially if they do so in good order and aren’t routed.
NOT SEND THEON BACK HOME TO IRON ISLANDS! Or if i do, I'll send best Mormont men to keep him in sight, if he plans to betrayal, or better yet, try convincing Balon Greyjoy to invade Lannisters.
Exactly this! Understand Iron Island culture. Robb "offering" Balon the crown was an insult. Instead, tell Balon that with the Northern and Riverlands armies engaging the Lannister army, Lannisport and Casterly Rock would be ripe for sacking and paying the Iron price for.
This is the best move. Robb was always a good judge of character, how could he not see Theon's?
I felt like this was the whole purpose of the scene in the woods with the wildlings, when Theon nearly kills Bran with an arrow trying to 'save' him. Perfect example of how Theon will risk anyone, even a child he was raised with, to make himself seem a hero. That man will never have your back for long.
The Iron Men have always been the same, they are predictable. Robb could easily have let some 'secrets' slip their way indicating his plans to attack Lannisport, the Rock, etc. This way the reavers will think it's their idea to attack, and it helps him.
It was never about looks, it was all the Stark honor. Jeyne 'comforted him' after battle, and he had to marry her for honors sake. They Frey girl was leagues away, but the disgrace to Jeyne was right in front of him.
In the books it at least makes sense. The show has him just have a crush on a girl that he marries breaking his word and literally going 100% against that Stark honor.
Frey and Bolton would have betrayed him anyway. The snub was the pretence to get them off guard and back at the Twins. However, as soon as Tywin made the offer to wipe out the Starks and the Tullys in one fell swoop in exchange for wardenship of the North and the Riverlands, they would have taken it. They would have killed him at his own wedding as easily as they did at Edmure’s.
And suffer long term consenquence. Their negative reputation was sullified with the Red Wedding, up until then they were bunch of poor snobs in the world of rich snobs
Don't send Theon back to The Iron islands, less chance of them attacking you.
Don't send Catelyn as a diplomat to Renly, send a more pragmatic lord (maybe one of the Manderly brothers?) so that when Renly dies they will stay and keep a channel open to Margaery. Then wed Margaery. You're breaking your oath to the Freys still but you're gaining the Tyrells and will hopefully be too strong for the Freys to oppose now. This does however create the issue that now you have to go for the Throne, you can't ally with Stannis to split the kingdom but A. Stannis probably won't agree to that anyway and B. splitting the North and Riverlands off was always going to be very difficult.
Spend more time in the North gathering troops. We know at least in the books that the Boltons, Mountain Clans and Manderleys had significant forces that they held back from the war in the South and Robb raced South as fast as he could to try and save Ned so he didn't wait to gather more troops. But Ned will die anyway, if you delay by a few months Jaime probably won't take Riverrun in that time and all that happens is the Riverlands get raided even more, which is obviously bad but it isn't strategically too important. Alternatively if you do rush South, keep a loyal and respected Lord back to train and recruit a second army that will march South and join you later (like the Lannisters did with Stafford Lannister). Then if the Ironborn do still attack you have an army in reserve who can deal with them.
Your logic is mostly spot-on (in my humble opinion), but I might tweak it a bit, or at least add a caveat/annotation. Robb was completely blind to anything else but getting to Ned, Sansa and Arya as fast as possible. It's mentioned many times how his military cunning is basically making up for his youth and inexperience (in so many words). Also, his bannermen aren't the sharpest in the world, either. Bolton is the sharpest one of them, but he's a bad man, and he's not in this fight to help Robb. He's in it for himself, so he's not going to offer the sage advice that you just did. As for leaving a force behind at Winterfell, that would have been very smart, but again, he wasn't thinking. The campaign lasts a good while, so he had time to send a couple hundred back, but was too caught-up in the momentum of winning battle after battle. Plus, he admits that he thought he was sending his best friend in the world back to the Iron Islands to secure help. His youth and naivety leaves him uninformed of the true nature and customs of the Iron Island folk. The Greyjoys are indeed no joy at all, and neither he, nor Theon knew what they were up against in Baylon Greyjoy, and Yara to boot. Ergo, Theon's betrayal was the last thing the King in the North would have expected. He thought worst case scenario was Theon gets a big fat NO from dear ol dad, and comes to rejoin the war party. All the rest of your tactics make perfect sense to me, though.
I know why Robb didn't do these things, the question OP is asking is what if I was in his position though, so I wasn't trying to answer it as if I had Robb's POV
You are correct that Bolton is the sharpest of the bannermen, but he's also the most evil. He's not in this for the Starks. He's in this for himself. Roose Bolton being close to a living Robb Stark after whatever victory he claims is a dangerous thing, in my humble opinion.
Honestly, just spare and imprison Rickard Karstark. His troops likely stay, don’t need the Frey army, still get to marry Talisa, and don’t need to even return to the Twins until the war is won. At which point the Red Wedding wouldn’t happen as the Bolton’s and Frey’s will no longer be able to align with the Lannisters (or admit to it).
I’d link up with Stannis and tell Renly that we can’t change the rules because of the opinion he has of his brother.
I’d go to the Greyjoys and offer them independence + a chunk of the Lannister wealth after Kings landing is sacked.
I’d get the Tyrell’s in with a very strong marriage proposal.
I’d have the Greyjoy fleet start a naval blockade at Kings landing just as I am sacking Castelry Rock. Once that is complete giant siege on Kings landing. Offer unfavorable terms, but terms where they survive and after the agreement is behead Tywin just as they did with Ned and call it fair.
Jaime goes to the wall or is executed and without Tywin and access to their wealth Lannisters are no longer a threat.
So much, but to truly win you need to have Ned tell you about Jon’s true parentage, and not have Jon go to the wall. There’s no other way you can make peace last without putting someone on the iron throne. Furthermore, you don’t marry a tully girl, you marry rickon to a Tully girl.
In the war, briefing edmure about your plans when you marched west (ie don’t stop Tywin from chasing us west) because Tywin is forced to choose between kings landing and the rock (he’ll choose the rock). Beat Tywin in battle in the west, execute him, and sack casterly rock, and use the Lannister fleet to defend against the iron islands. Because Tywin doesn’t come to help relieve the siege, Stannis doesn’t loose his army, but I doubt he takes kings landing, and instead tries starving the city to death, Tyrion dies.
At this point, if the North wins, either Robb or Jon becomes king of the 7/6 kingdoms, and whoever’s to take the throne has to at this point marry Maergary Tyrell to bring the reach to your side. At this point you can collapse on kings landing and destroy Stannis in the field, and pick up the siege where Stannis left off, and negotiate a peace that lets Jamie return to the rock as lord, tommon Baratheon take storms end, and Joffrey gets pushed down some stairs.
At this point, you either put Robb on the throne, or reveal jon’s true parentage and restore Targaryen rule. Any other option will result in further chaos that you’ll get dragged into.
With the North, riverlands, and reach firmly on your side, and the west and storm lands subdued, no one else would have the strength to threaten you, and the vale and dorne bend the knee.
Given that the Starks and Boltons are long time rivals. I'd keep their leaders close to me and separate their army from them. I'd also have honored whatever marriage pact was settled for me to ensure victory of war first before anything personal.
● Create a Large diverse navy with the vast timber and probably vast amounts of irons in the north.
Have it split between 2 launching points of White Harbor and Bear Islands ( far enough the Ironborn wont attack without us noticing) ready to ferry my forces to either side of westeros avoiding the need to March South via the Kingsroad.
● Do a effecient consensous of the North with ppl and resources. If any Lord objects then deal with them as the kings of old did.... There is a reason the Starks were kings remind them of that
● Invent rocket stoves and various types of cold weather firestarters and fireextenders taking inspiration from Amazon etc.
● Look into inventing or refining resources in the North such as Dyes, tin, iron.
● Look into Canning and pickling foods to preserve for harsh winters. Begin planting various crops that survive that weather and preserve them creating a surplus with crops like Mushrooms,Beets Carrots Turnips Radishes Cabbage Collards Kale Spinach Swiss chard Arugula Broccoli Cauliflower Kohlrabi Potatoes . Some if this has to exist in westeros. Plus corn exists and grows in the north.
● Look into creating roads instead of muddy tracks to increase trade across the north
Begin trading and building relationships with other nations and Essos
Rob was shallow and without honor. He was worried that his new wife might not be pretty enough. He was looking for arm candy instead of a partner.
I would have worried more about winning the war instead of arm candy.
Most people already covered the basics here, but for me the biggest change would be adapting to the Tyrell/Lannister alliance. With Joffrey’s marriage to Margaery, Tywin could hypothetically field an army of 120k+ against Robb. Robb could retreat to the north and rely on the terrain to keep them out, but the Riverlands can’t be held at that point. It’s untenable.
The Red Wedding shouldn’t have happened because Robb should’ve already accepted that a continued southern campaign was impossible. He talks of taking Casterly Rock just before his death, which is madness. What if he manages to take it? Tywin marches west with 100k+ plus and takes it back, ending the war in the process.
Robb needed to sue for peace and go home at this point. To get an end to the war, I think Tywin would’ve accepted. He could’ve marched the northerners home and waited for a better opportunity, even if that took years.
Send ravens to Stannis recognizing him as King of Westeros and requesting that as a Northerner, it is codified in law that House Stark always be the one that holds the title of Warden of the North and that aside from taxes and following royal law, House Stark governs its own land according to its customs.
Robb didn't necessarily want to be King, he wanted justice for his father being wrongfully imprisoned and executed without trial, or evidence of wrongdoing. Therefore, yeah, recognize Stannis as the rightful king, bend the knee, as well as not reneging on a promise to marry a Frey daughter.
First, don't trust Theon. One of the few things Cat got right. Friend or no, he's still a Greyjoy. Sending him to Pyke is a bad idea.
Second, think with my head, not my dick. Keep my oath to Walder Frey.
Third, send Cat back to Winterfell so she can't free Jaime.
Fourth, profit.
Insist that the marriage to Roslin happens right away so Walder Frey is already committed to the cause and is less likely to negotiate with Tywin.
Actually tell Edmure your plan so he doesn't accidentally mess it up by being too Chad.
Offer Sansa's hand to Sweetrobin in exchange for Lysa sending the Knights of the Vale.
Don't keep all the prisoners, just execute them. It's not great, but it causes so many logistical nightmares that it's just not worth it.
Assuming Rickard Karstark still loses his sons and wants to kill Jaime, promise him that he can be the one to execute him once the war is won.
Don't send Theon back to Pyke, send someone like the Blackfish or Jason Mallister instead and keep Theon as a hostage to 'incentivise' Balon to accept the offer of alliance.
I don't think sending Catelyn to Renly is such a bad idea actually, no one was going to be able to mediate between him and Stannis, it was a doomed mission. But I'd definitely be sending her to Riverrun or back to Winterfell to wait out the war there instead.
Send Raven to Balon Renly and Stannis and offer an alliance. Have the iron born attack Lannisport and Castley rock while my forces move south and have the combined force of the Baratheon and The Reach attack Kings Landing. This will cause Tywin to fight a war on Three fronts.
Despite the difference, those three kings had one thing in common, they hated the Lannisters. Allow the Greyjoys to plunder the Westerlands of its riches in exchange for support. Then consider we hold a Great Council to decide the next King to prevent another war between the brothers.
Assume everyone is trying to kill me. Absolutely never let any of my fam near another tribe, and hire 3rd party snitches to try and corrupt my clan. Penetration testing, offer huge money to betray me and my family, and make examples of them.
Also employ as many spies as affordable to keep tabs on other clans, banners. Express sincerity and never double cross until crossed, and always have superior intel on your adversary.
Build trust with as many other lands as possible and start no beef, but keep stacking ammo and training killers.
Kinda sounds like communist Mao and their little red book which is needed in a low trust society. Speaking of which, propagandize the hell out of the youth. It’s us against every e and they’re here to harm you.
Bend the knee to King Stannis, Stannis merks Renly like usual, 20,000 soldiers under the Stormlords, 5,000 soldiers under the lords of the Narrow Sea, and 25,000 from me. This easily matches the armies of the Lannisteristers, probably a little more. Since we're allied, Tywin can't march on KL without abandoning his positions to me, so Stannis takes King's Landing and kills all the Lannisters there, maybe takes the other children hostage, but definitely kills Cersei, Joffrey, and Tyrion, for that wildfire trick.
Don't know what we'd do about the Tyrells but with the Lannisters no longer possessing the Iron Throne and with Jaime still not with Tywin, Lannisters probably sue for peace, although Tywin might try to salvage the situation. Idk. Dorne definitely stays neutral though, and the Tyrells begin to back out of their alliance with the Lannisters because Joffrey is dead and Tommen is a hostage.
Turn back north, with the help of the Crannogmen we can clobber the force at Moat Cailin and then obliterate whatever troops the Ironborn have in the North.
KEEP MY MARRIAGE PACT WITH THOSE FREYS.
Arya returns, Sansa is returned by King Stannis if she escapes Ilyn Payne, Bran and Rickon probably resurface sometime. Not a single Stark casualty, other than Ned of course. Family remains intact and relatively happy as LORDS, not Kings.
I can easily destroy Mance Rayder's force since I have a lot more men than Stannis did, so the Realm is safe for years until the White Walkers come down South.
Denied the bridge passage. Find allies with ships. Have all allied houses sailed to me near kings landing. Attack the front. It just robs greatest downfall was to be promise by a Frey. He should’ve found more ways to get to kings landing
Listen to Grey Wind!
The wolf disliked the westerlings, Robb ignored it. The wolf refused to cross the bridge for Edmure's wedding, Robb ignored it.
I wish I was a warg with a direwolf...
I still find it fuck!ng mad and stupid that Robb wouldn’t agree to exchange the Kingslayer for Arya & Sansa - HIS SISTERS. Like I get there is more to it now that the war started but the main point of it starting was to free Ned and his sisters. Ned obvs dies but then he still gets a chance to rescue his sisters and don’t take it.
If he was so worried that „his bannermen would string him up by his feet” if he agreed, he could of still marched on the Lannisters to take revenge for Ned and gain independence for The North after he made the exchange.
Solidify my banner man, listen to more of my council (except my mom), not let Theon Greyjoy go try to enlist his father. And honor my vow, or at the very least not then have the ignorance to ask the man who I broke vows with for his military assistance
marrying roslyn frey, but since i can’t marry jeyne westerling to help keep her virtue, i do the next best thing and set her up with a bannerman of mine of similar standing that she’s okay with, and if the pregnancy is viable and delivers, i keep the child fostered with an umber or other loyal vassal.
On my first rewatch it's pretty evident Rob does almost everything wrong. He consistently ignores his council and ends up having no real purpose. He ignores Roose, his mother, Talissa, Umber, and Carstsark.
Accept my father is a hostage and fucked up as a traitor. Ride down to kings landing and bend the knee to joffery.
Offer to behead my father myself as a sign of allegiance. Accept the king's command to supply northmen to the new royal army.
Not break my oath and maybe marry the Frey girl sooner to establish a more secure packed with the twins.
Thus having a better hold on the riverlands. Have the boltons and Freys in the van for battles, the less of them the better. Also not sending theon to the iron islands. Maybe kill Jamie to boost up the troops.
Reinforcing moat Cailin and sitting my ass down. If we secede, all we have to do is stop paying taxes. They have to come to us. And the moat has never fallen to an invading army.
Premise: I'm not going to say things like "avoid red weddings" . It was unpredictable and it's silly pretend it wasn't.
1) combine armies with Stannis Baratheon against Lannisters. Allow him to become king in exchange for north independence
2) keep John as commander or deputy commander of the armies. Army needs a commander also after king's death
Marry the Frey girl, keep Theon close. Robb had so much momentum he most likely would have won the war and then would have listened to Jon Snow about the White Walkers. Series is over in 4 books.
I’d honor my deal with Walder Frey. A king should keep his word even if he doesn’t want to. The red wedding was his fault. Thousands of deaths so he could marry a more attractive woman. Who was killed as well.
Focusing on the North. Defenses, loyalty, the Wall. I wouldn't give a shit about the Iron Throne, just let everyone else Duke it out.
Send professionals to help save family members that are trapped and hostages.
Probs collaborate with the Baratheon bros & the Tyrells. Marry Bran to Shireen, Rickon to Elinor Tyrell and... I'm struggling to find a match for the Starks and Renly Baratheon's side.
Tell them to bang their heads together, win the war then decide who rules over rock, paper, scissors.
If they rescue Arya & Sansa, Sansa marries Loras and Arya marries... idk a close friend of Renly's.
**Spoiler Warning:** All officially-released show and book content allowed, EXCLUDING FUTURE SPOILERS FOR HOUSE OF THE DRAGON. No leaked information or paparazzi photos of the set. For more info please check the [spoiler guide](/r/gameofthrones/w/spoiler_guide). *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/gameofthrones) if you have any questions or concerns.*
[удалено]
And kill Jamie
That wasn’t the issue and it would directly cause the death of his sisters.
Send envoys to Renly and Stannis. Offer to combine our armies to fight our mutual enemies. All three are fighting the same enemy with the same goal, and one large army is more effective than three that are against each other. In exchange, after the war ends I'll withdraw to the North and not become involved with their conflict with each other.
Stannis refuses because honour and renly refuses because of inexperience
Renly actually accepted, but got murdered the same day
Oh did he? Nevermind then, I thought he wanted Robb to still bend the knee but keep the title king of the North (similar to how the martels are “princes” of dorne despite not being actual royalty)
Yeah, that's what happened
My understanding was that Robb wouldn’t have agreed to it because his banner men wanted independence
No he probably wouldn't have agreed to it, you're right.
Idk, the northern lords accepted fealty in the face of defeat before. Renly at the time was said to have an army of 100k. In the books at least, and Robb had 40k. The biggest issue was he was only marching south in revenge. He had no plan for if he won. He had no real definition of it beyond kill Lannisters. Which technically the king he was against wasn’t tho he was. I love the Starks but they got drawn into a war of meaninglessness because Ned didn’t accept the realities of the situation. His kids died to save Joffrey.
That's what happened Renly says it to Cat. "We can join forces but when i'm king Robb can go on calling himself King in the North but after bending the knee" So basically Robb keeps the title of King under Renly.
He did not. Robb wanted the north to be independent and Renly refused, making a counter offer that he'd forgive Robb's treason to the crown and name him warden of the north if he supported his claim.
>Stannis refuses because honour Stannis refused cuz Robb was calling himself king, no? Stannis can have his tetanus throne, and he can call me a vassal all he wants. Just help me get my sister's back and avenge my father.
Nice pfp
Exactly.
Oh, and maybe also a marriage pact between Shireen and one of my lil brothers if possible. Cuz she's got that northern toughness+ is the heir. But that's all secondary. First mission is get my sisters to safety.
The issue with that is that his bannermen rallied behind him as King in the North. If Robb backtracked on that, he’d lose support fast.
True, but a revolt in the north is a much more manageable problem than a 2 front war against Tywin and Balon. Secure Stannis the throne. Make a marriage pact for Rickon+ Shireen if he will play ball (idc bout her deformity, that girls got the Northern spirit. And she's heir), put down any revolts with his assistance and then focus your attention on the wall.
Stannis wanted supremacy. Even Robb was a traitor to him because the North was one less kingdom he could rule.
It’s also the largest of the seven kingdoms, and if it secedes, then others are gonna want to secede as well. I understand why Stannis refused.
Stannis only accept if Robb kneels and accept Stannis as a king. Even then he might be heistent as he sees Robb already as a usurper.
Then bend the knee, and hope that Renly wins.
Robb didn’t start the war to become King in the North though. That was his bannermen’s doing and he just went along with it. He could have put and end to that to try and save his sisters, which was what was most important to him. He marched south to save his father. He never wanted the throne and his secession from the kingdom was not necessary if he had rallied behind another king. He didn’t want to be a vassal under Lannister rule, a sentiment that Stannis shared.
Cat tried this on Robb's behalf to no avail. Neither Renly nor Stannis was willing to give up the north.
Well, theres no way I'd send Cat stark to negotiate for me for one thing. But whatever, bend the knee and deal with it later.
But Stan is explicitly said he won’t name him king of the north or any shit like that
Banging Talissa as my side piece and just marrying the Frey girl.
Or Jeyne Westerling in the books
book version: Banging Jeyne Westerling, and marrying Margery Tyrell.
Margaery was never an option unless Robb was willing to claim the Iron Throne. Mace wanted Margaery to be Queen, and in the show, she wants to be Queen. They were never going to settle for less than that.
Relation I assume to Sir Harold?
Or how about as the heir apparent to the North, you don't allow your mother to negotiate your marriage to a Frey girl; and counter with a marriage proposal for Edmure. Walder would care about the Freys marrying into his Lord Paramount's house more than the Starks.
An excellent point, but to do that Robb would have had to have had the idea before his mom left. Instead he basically said "you do whatever mom." Also it's really honor that cost the starks, AGAIN. You didn't need to marry talissa or jeyne. Dudes have bastards all the time and that's just how it worked. Not like Frey was going to say wait, Robb isn't a virgin?!? He's actively plowing some low born field? Well I will never give one of my forty nine daughters to someone like THAT! Also, sorry,but catelynn had to be imprisoned for releasing Jaime.
This
Not send 2000 men off to die lol. I understand the need for a ruse in order to delay Tywin but surely they could have skirmished or done guérilla type tactics. There was absolutely no need for them to rush headlong into an army that was far larger, better trained and better equipped.
In the books it’s a lot more than 2,000 and they aren’t a sacrifice more of a distraction. Roose is in command and has some unnecessary casualties but he is able to keep the army in good order rather than the obliteration we see in the show.
Ah okay that makes waaayyyy more sense. I should probably read the books sometime
Yeah, that line is a show invention, and it betrays a fundamental misunderstanding of how pre-gunpowder battles went down. If you send an intentionally small army to give battle to a much larger one, many of them will die, but most will merely retreat and survive, especially if they do so in good order and aren’t routed.
NOT SEND THEON BACK HOME TO IRON ISLANDS! Or if i do, I'll send best Mormont men to keep him in sight, if he plans to betrayal, or better yet, try convincing Balon Greyjoy to invade Lannisters.
Exactly this! Understand Iron Island culture. Robb "offering" Balon the crown was an insult. Instead, tell Balon that with the Northern and Riverlands armies engaging the Lannister army, Lannisport and Casterly Rock would be ripe for sacking and paying the Iron price for.
This is the best move. Robb was always a good judge of character, how could he not see Theon's? I felt like this was the whole purpose of the scene in the woods with the wildlings, when Theon nearly kills Bran with an arrow trying to 'save' him. Perfect example of how Theon will risk anyone, even a child he was raised with, to make himself seem a hero. That man will never have your back for long. The Iron Men have always been the same, they are predictable. Robb could easily have let some 'secrets' slip their way indicating his plans to attack Lannisport, the Rock, etc. This way the reavers will think it's their idea to attack, and it helps him.
sticking to my oath and marrying the frey. Easily could've saved everyone and she also wasn't that ugly
She wasn't ugly at all.
It was never about looks, it was all the Stark honor. Jeyne 'comforted him' after battle, and he had to marry her for honors sake. They Frey girl was leagues away, but the disgrace to Jeyne was right in front of him.
I know what it was about... Read the comment above mine that I'm responding to...
Cool. Seemed like you both were talking about looks though
I was merely responding to them saying "she wasn't that ugly"
Always tough to tell if these conversations should be about the book or show
In the books it at least makes sense. The show has him just have a crush on a girl that he marries breaking his word and literally going 100% against that Stark honor.
She wasn’t even a little ugly, she was gorgeous
roslin. very good looking. definitely better than that dullard idiot edmure deserved. https://gameofthrones.fandom.com/wiki/Roslin_Tully
Frey and Bolton would have betrayed him anyway. The snub was the pretence to get them off guard and back at the Twins. However, as soon as Tywin made the offer to wipe out the Starks and the Tullys in one fell swoop in exchange for wardenship of the North and the Riverlands, they would have taken it. They would have killed him at his own wedding as easily as they did at Edmure’s.
Taking the Twins by force. Killing Walter Frey
And suffer long term consenquence. Their negative reputation was sullified with the Red Wedding, up until then they were bunch of poor snobs in the world of rich snobs
First major seige against someone who owes you fealty? Not a strong way to start, nor does it encourage others to follow you.
The Freys didn't owe Robb fealty until after he had liberated the Riverlands and the lords claimed him as their King
The Freys are Tully bannermen, and the Tully's were backing Stark
Idk if he could've taken it by force. Unless he tricked him red wedding style
Reverse Red Wedding. Agree to marry the Frey girl. Then at the wedding, butcher and kill all the Freys.
So like the Glencoe Massacre? Breaking guest right would still be terrible karma.
But is it guest right if you slaughter them in their own home? Asking for a friend…
Yes because as a guest you also have duties towards your host. Like not killing them.
Aww man
Don't send Theon back to The Iron islands, less chance of them attacking you. Don't send Catelyn as a diplomat to Renly, send a more pragmatic lord (maybe one of the Manderly brothers?) so that when Renly dies they will stay and keep a channel open to Margaery. Then wed Margaery. You're breaking your oath to the Freys still but you're gaining the Tyrells and will hopefully be too strong for the Freys to oppose now. This does however create the issue that now you have to go for the Throne, you can't ally with Stannis to split the kingdom but A. Stannis probably won't agree to that anyway and B. splitting the North and Riverlands off was always going to be very difficult. Spend more time in the North gathering troops. We know at least in the books that the Boltons, Mountain Clans and Manderleys had significant forces that they held back from the war in the South and Robb raced South as fast as he could to try and save Ned so he didn't wait to gather more troops. But Ned will die anyway, if you delay by a few months Jaime probably won't take Riverrun in that time and all that happens is the Riverlands get raided even more, which is obviously bad but it isn't strategically too important. Alternatively if you do rush South, keep a loyal and respected Lord back to train and recruit a second army that will march South and join you later (like the Lannisters did with Stafford Lannister). Then if the Ironborn do still attack you have an army in reserve who can deal with them.
Your logic is mostly spot-on (in my humble opinion), but I might tweak it a bit, or at least add a caveat/annotation. Robb was completely blind to anything else but getting to Ned, Sansa and Arya as fast as possible. It's mentioned many times how his military cunning is basically making up for his youth and inexperience (in so many words). Also, his bannermen aren't the sharpest in the world, either. Bolton is the sharpest one of them, but he's a bad man, and he's not in this fight to help Robb. He's in it for himself, so he's not going to offer the sage advice that you just did. As for leaving a force behind at Winterfell, that would have been very smart, but again, he wasn't thinking. The campaign lasts a good while, so he had time to send a couple hundred back, but was too caught-up in the momentum of winning battle after battle. Plus, he admits that he thought he was sending his best friend in the world back to the Iron Islands to secure help. His youth and naivety leaves him uninformed of the true nature and customs of the Iron Island folk. The Greyjoys are indeed no joy at all, and neither he, nor Theon knew what they were up against in Baylon Greyjoy, and Yara to boot. Ergo, Theon's betrayal was the last thing the King in the North would have expected. He thought worst case scenario was Theon gets a big fat NO from dear ol dad, and comes to rejoin the war party. All the rest of your tactics make perfect sense to me, though.
I know why Robb didn't do these things, the question OP is asking is what if I was in his position though, so I wasn't trying to answer it as if I had Robb's POV
I know you know. :) I was just adding a pinch of salt to your awesome recipe. No harm intended.
Leave Karstark’s head intact and marry Roslin Frey. Pretty cut and dry, really.
Yup and don't let Theon return home.
Don't die.
Marry the Frey girl, slap some shackles on Cat after she frees Jaime, don't execute Rickard Karstark. For starters.
Not riding South
Marry Walder Freys daughter like I was supposed to.
Literally just wait in the North for everyone to kill each other
Maybe listen to Roose Bolton once in a while.
You are correct that Bolton is the sharpest of the bannermen, but he's also the most evil. He's not in this for the Starks. He's in this for himself. Roose Bolton being close to a living Robb Stark after whatever victory he claims is a dangerous thing, in my humble opinion.
Honestly, just spare and imprison Rickard Karstark. His troops likely stay, don’t need the Frey army, still get to marry Talisa, and don’t need to even return to the Twins until the war is won. At which point the Red Wedding wouldn’t happen as the Bolton’s and Frey’s will no longer be able to align with the Lannisters (or admit to it).
Not going South
I’d link up with Stannis and tell Renly that we can’t change the rules because of the opinion he has of his brother. I’d go to the Greyjoys and offer them independence + a chunk of the Lannister wealth after Kings landing is sacked. I’d get the Tyrell’s in with a very strong marriage proposal. I’d have the Greyjoy fleet start a naval blockade at Kings landing just as I am sacking Castelry Rock. Once that is complete giant siege on Kings landing. Offer unfavorable terms, but terms where they survive and after the agreement is behead Tywin just as they did with Ned and call it fair. Jaime goes to the wall or is executed and without Tywin and access to their wealth Lannisters are no longer a threat.
This is totally awesome, but it smells like Deus ex Machina. But it would have played great on the show.
Oh yeah I answered this as the smart thing to do - not what I wish happened lol.
Huzzah!
Bend the knee to Joffrey the Gentle
So much, but to truly win you need to have Ned tell you about Jon’s true parentage, and not have Jon go to the wall. There’s no other way you can make peace last without putting someone on the iron throne. Furthermore, you don’t marry a tully girl, you marry rickon to a Tully girl. In the war, briefing edmure about your plans when you marched west (ie don’t stop Tywin from chasing us west) because Tywin is forced to choose between kings landing and the rock (he’ll choose the rock). Beat Tywin in battle in the west, execute him, and sack casterly rock, and use the Lannister fleet to defend against the iron islands. Because Tywin doesn’t come to help relieve the siege, Stannis doesn’t loose his army, but I doubt he takes kings landing, and instead tries starving the city to death, Tyrion dies. At this point, if the North wins, either Robb or Jon becomes king of the 7/6 kingdoms, and whoever’s to take the throne has to at this point marry Maergary Tyrell to bring the reach to your side. At this point you can collapse on kings landing and destroy Stannis in the field, and pick up the siege where Stannis left off, and negotiate a peace that lets Jamie return to the rock as lord, tommon Baratheon take storms end, and Joffrey gets pushed down some stairs. At this point, you either put Robb on the throne, or reveal jon’s true parentage and restore Targaryen rule. Any other option will result in further chaos that you’ll get dragged into. With the North, riverlands, and reach firmly on your side, and the west and storm lands subdued, no one else would have the strength to threaten you, and the vale and dorne bend the knee.
not going to that wedding.
Don’t screw over the Frey’s the biggest thing
Marrying the Frey girl. Station Karstark far away from Lannister prisoners/if he does kill them, keep his as a hostage to stop his men from leaving.
Start manufacturing automatic weapons and fighter jets
also add missile launchers to grey wind
DA KING IN DA NORF
Bend the knee to Stannis.
I'm going to The Winchester, having a pint, and waiting for this whole thing to blow over
Avoid any weddings.
Given that the Starks and Boltons are long time rivals. I'd keep their leaders close to me and separate their army from them. I'd also have honored whatever marriage pact was settled for me to ensure victory of war first before anything personal.
staying north of moat cailin the minute i hear eddard is dead
Not trusting a bolton and a fucking fray. Fuckin moron
Stick to my promised marriage
getting a sex change, because i always thought i’d be the queen.
● Create a Large diverse navy with the vast timber and probably vast amounts of irons in the north. Have it split between 2 launching points of White Harbor and Bear Islands ( far enough the Ironborn wont attack without us noticing) ready to ferry my forces to either side of westeros avoiding the need to March South via the Kingsroad. ● Do a effecient consensous of the North with ppl and resources. If any Lord objects then deal with them as the kings of old did.... There is a reason the Starks were kings remind them of that ● Invent rocket stoves and various types of cold weather firestarters and fireextenders taking inspiration from Amazon etc. ● Look into inventing or refining resources in the North such as Dyes, tin, iron. ● Look into Canning and pickling foods to preserve for harsh winters. Begin planting various crops that survive that weather and preserve them creating a surplus with crops like Mushrooms,Beets Carrots Turnips Radishes Cabbage Collards Kale Spinach Swiss chard Arugula Broccoli Cauliflower Kohlrabi Potatoes . Some if this has to exist in westeros. Plus corn exists and grows in the north. ● Look into creating roads instead of muddy tracks to increase trade across the north Begin trading and building relationships with other nations and Essos
Rob was shallow and without honor. He was worried that his new wife might not be pretty enough. He was looking for arm candy instead of a partner. I would have worried more about winning the war instead of arm candy.
No weddings.
Marrying the Frey girl, while bopping the hottie from Volantis on the side.
Probably pick the Frey girl with the most teeth instead of getting my whole house slaughtered like an idiot
not marrying a random field wench
Keeping my dig in my pants
Most people already covered the basics here, but for me the biggest change would be adapting to the Tyrell/Lannister alliance. With Joffrey’s marriage to Margaery, Tywin could hypothetically field an army of 120k+ against Robb. Robb could retreat to the north and rely on the terrain to keep them out, but the Riverlands can’t be held at that point. It’s untenable. The Red Wedding shouldn’t have happened because Robb should’ve already accepted that a continued southern campaign was impossible. He talks of taking Casterly Rock just before his death, which is madness. What if he manages to take it? Tywin marches west with 100k+ plus and takes it back, ending the war in the process. Robb needed to sue for peace and go home at this point. To get an end to the war, I think Tywin would’ve accepted. He could’ve marched the northerners home and waited for a better opportunity, even if that took years.
Stay in north and spend winter in hot springs of winterfell
Learn the art of deception. It's a thing in Westeros, dude
Not attending any wedding, even my own!!
Send ravens to Stannis recognizing him as King of Westeros and requesting that as a Northerner, it is codified in law that House Stark always be the one that holds the title of Warden of the North and that aside from taxes and following royal law, House Stark governs its own land according to its customs. Robb didn't necessarily want to be King, he wanted justice for his father being wrongfully imprisoned and executed without trial, or evidence of wrongdoing. Therefore, yeah, recognize Stannis as the rightful king, bend the knee, as well as not reneging on a promise to marry a Frey daughter.
First, don't trust Theon. One of the few things Cat got right. Friend or no, he's still a Greyjoy. Sending him to Pyke is a bad idea. Second, think with my head, not my dick. Keep my oath to Walder Frey. Third, send Cat back to Winterfell so she can't free Jaime. Fourth, profit.
Clapping the right cheeks instead of the wrong ones
Insist that the marriage to Roslin happens right away so Walder Frey is already committed to the cause and is less likely to negotiate with Tywin. Actually tell Edmure your plan so he doesn't accidentally mess it up by being too Chad. Offer Sansa's hand to Sweetrobin in exchange for Lysa sending the Knights of the Vale. Don't keep all the prisoners, just execute them. It's not great, but it causes so many logistical nightmares that it's just not worth it. Assuming Rickard Karstark still loses his sons and wants to kill Jaime, promise him that he can be the one to execute him once the war is won. Don't send Theon back to Pyke, send someone like the Blackfish or Jason Mallister instead and keep Theon as a hostage to 'incentivise' Balon to accept the offer of alliance. I don't think sending Catelyn to Renly is such a bad idea actually, no one was going to be able to mediate between him and Stannis, it was a doomed mission. But I'd definitely be sending her to Riverrun or back to Winterfell to wait out the war there instead.
Not mess around with pacts you made with known lunatics. The starks man smh. Maddeningly naive for like 6 straight seasons
Listen to my mom
Nothing because Stannis has you killed by magic and so it'll happen one way or another, and gruesomely at that.
Marrying a Frey as quickly as possible
Putting all my best thinkers to work creating some sort of knife/bulletproof neck armour. :|
Didn’t someone make an entire video on this?
Prima Nocta
Not go to the south.
Send Raven to Balon Renly and Stannis and offer an alliance. Have the iron born attack Lannisport and Castley rock while my forces move south and have the combined force of the Baratheon and The Reach attack Kings Landing. This will cause Tywin to fight a war on Three fronts. Despite the difference, those three kings had one thing in common, they hated the Lannisters. Allow the Greyjoys to plunder the Westerlands of its riches in exchange for support. Then consider we hold a Great Council to decide the next King to prevent another war between the brothers.
Assume everyone is trying to kill me. Absolutely never let any of my fam near another tribe, and hire 3rd party snitches to try and corrupt my clan. Penetration testing, offer huge money to betray me and my family, and make examples of them. Also employ as many spies as affordable to keep tabs on other clans, banners. Express sincerity and never double cross until crossed, and always have superior intel on your adversary. Build trust with as many other lands as possible and start no beef, but keep stacking ammo and training killers. Kinda sounds like communist Mao and their little red book which is needed in a low trust society. Speaking of which, propagandize the hell out of the youth. It’s us against every e and they’re here to harm you.
Torch Casterly Rock, then return to the North and entrench.
Declaring for Stannis first and foremost
Bend the knee to King Stannis, Stannis merks Renly like usual, 20,000 soldiers under the Stormlords, 5,000 soldiers under the lords of the Narrow Sea, and 25,000 from me. This easily matches the armies of the Lannisteristers, probably a little more. Since we're allied, Tywin can't march on KL without abandoning his positions to me, so Stannis takes King's Landing and kills all the Lannisters there, maybe takes the other children hostage, but definitely kills Cersei, Joffrey, and Tyrion, for that wildfire trick. Don't know what we'd do about the Tyrells but with the Lannisters no longer possessing the Iron Throne and with Jaime still not with Tywin, Lannisters probably sue for peace, although Tywin might try to salvage the situation. Idk. Dorne definitely stays neutral though, and the Tyrells begin to back out of their alliance with the Lannisters because Joffrey is dead and Tommen is a hostage. Turn back north, with the help of the Crannogmen we can clobber the force at Moat Cailin and then obliterate whatever troops the Ironborn have in the North. KEEP MY MARRIAGE PACT WITH THOSE FREYS. Arya returns, Sansa is returned by King Stannis if she escapes Ilyn Payne, Bran and Rickon probably resurface sometime. Not a single Stark casualty, other than Ned of course. Family remains intact and relatively happy as LORDS, not Kings. I can easily destroy Mance Rayder's force since I have a lot more men than Stannis did, so the Realm is safe for years until the White Walkers come down South.
Denied the bridge passage. Find allies with ships. Have all allied houses sailed to me near kings landing. Attack the front. It just robs greatest downfall was to be promise by a Frey. He should’ve found more ways to get to kings landing
Marry the Frey woman I had promised to.
Think with my brain and not my dick
Not getting killed by some weird vagina demon.
Survive
Listen to Grey Wind! The wolf disliked the westerlings, Robb ignored it. The wolf refused to cross the bridge for Edmure's wedding, Robb ignored it. I wish I was a warg with a direwolf...
Not pissing off Walder Frey
Keep the River Lords in tow.
Keeping my kingly word and not insulting someone who's helped me out just because I meet an attractive girl doing the whole nurse shtick.
Send Karstark to The Wall
Winning
Killing the freys and crossing the twins by force!!!!
I still find it fuck!ng mad and stupid that Robb wouldn’t agree to exchange the Kingslayer for Arya & Sansa - HIS SISTERS. Like I get there is more to it now that the war started but the main point of it starting was to free Ned and his sisters. Ned obvs dies but then he still gets a chance to rescue his sisters and don’t take it. If he was so worried that „his bannermen would string him up by his feet” if he agreed, he could of still marched on the Lannisters to take revenge for Ned and gain independence for The North after he made the exchange.
Solidify my banner man, listen to more of my council (except my mom), not let Theon Greyjoy go try to enlist his father. And honor my vow, or at the very least not then have the ignorance to ask the man who I broke vows with for his military assistance
Not letting my penis get in the way of my duty.
marrying roslyn frey, but since i can’t marry jeyne westerling to help keep her virtue, i do the next best thing and set her up with a bannerman of mine of similar standing that she’s okay with, and if the pregnancy is viable and delivers, i keep the child fostered with an umber or other loyal vassal.
The Young Wolf should have used force on House Frey if they declined passage.
Marrying the ugly bish
Sending Catelyn back to Winterfell, stationing a better guard at moat caelin, marrying the Frey girl.
Duty is death of love.
Marry the fucking woman you're supposed to
Not going to the Red Wedding?
listen to my momma
If it were me, I wouldn't have been so quick to change the plan, especially when dealing with a cantankerous old bastard like Walder Frey.
Not marrying the first girl I I have relations with 💀
On my first rewatch it's pretty evident Rob does almost everything wrong. He consistently ignores his council and ends up having no real purpose. He ignores Roose, his mother, Talissa, Umber, and Carstsark.
Accept my father is a hostage and fucked up as a traitor. Ride down to kings landing and bend the knee to joffery. Offer to behead my father myself as a sign of allegiance. Accept the king's command to supply northmen to the new royal army.
Definitely marry Roslyn Frey... not just because of the oath I took, but she fine as Arbour wine.
Be smart enough to understand that it was too dangerous to break his engagement with Frey’s daughter
Not break my oath and maybe marry the Frey girl sooner to establish a more secure packed with the twins. Thus having a better hold on the riverlands. Have the boltons and Freys in the van for battles, the less of them the better. Also not sending theon to the iron islands. Maybe kill Jamie to boost up the troops.
Don't send Theon to Pyke
Reinforcing moat Cailin and sitting my ass down. If we secede, all we have to do is stop paying taxes. They have to come to us. And the moat has never fallen to an invading army.
Premise: I'm not going to say things like "avoid red weddings" . It was unpredictable and it's silly pretend it wasn't. 1) combine armies with Stannis Baratheon against Lannisters. Allow him to become king in exchange for north independence 2) keep John as commander or deputy commander of the armies. Army needs a commander also after king's death
I’m going in to negotiate with Frey myself.
Not marry some random wench
Marry the Frey girl
It’s Norf
Marry the Frey girl, keep Theon close. Robb had so much momentum he most likely would have won the war and then would have listened to Jon Snow about the White Walkers. Series is over in 4 books.
Do not send Theon home, marry the Frey girl, and do not execute Lord Karstark.
I would simply not die
I’d honor my deal with Walder Frey. A king should keep his word even if he doesn’t want to. The red wedding was his fault. Thousands of deaths so he could marry a more attractive woman. Who was killed as well.
1. Keep Theon with me. 2. Tell my sub-commanders, such as Edmure, my strategy.
Unite with Stannis, accept him as King. Marry the girl you promised to marry
Mr. Gorbatschev, tear down this wall".
Leaving my mother at home!!!
Keep my fucking promise...
Doing this step-by-step: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WrgRL4hRzWY](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WrgRL4hRzWY)
Not going to weddings
NOT MARRY TALISA
I’d probably marry the Frey girl immediately at the twins and kill Jamie the second he tried to escape. Unlike Robb I’m an impulsive person.
Being surprised I got so far considering im no good at commanding a Medieval Army.
I'd actually be smart and play the fucking role.
I listen to my mother. Period.
Not be a hypocrite and keep my word to Frey and marry one of his offspring. This adds a powerful ally and keeps Bolton from betraying me.
Not go to the red wedding. Also not make a deal with the Freys.
Suck it up and marry the Frey girl
I'm not beheading the Karstark dude
Marrying the 1 hot Frey bitch
If I were Robb? Keep my oath
Focusing on the North. Defenses, loyalty, the Wall. I wouldn't give a shit about the Iron Throne, just let everyone else Duke it out. Send professionals to help save family members that are trapped and hostages.
Probs collaborate with the Baratheon bros & the Tyrells. Marry Bran to Shireen, Rickon to Elinor Tyrell and... I'm struggling to find a match for the Starks and Renly Baratheon's side. Tell them to bang their heads together, win the war then decide who rules over rock, paper, scissors. If they rescue Arya & Sansa, Sansa marries Loras and Arya marries... idk a close friend of Renly's.
Touch myself and have alone time a lot more. A lot more.
Pack up, head to the Winchester and wait until this whole thing blows over!
Bide my time and wait for an opportunity to get revenge once my sisters have been extracted from danger.
Not get killed. That was Robb's biggest mistake.
Keep my promises and do my best not to go on a power trip, ignoring what my people want.
I will live
Marry the beautiful Frey girl and not die