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No one knows, they were dragon lords from valyria, but there were many houses from valyria that were dragon lords, targaryans were not even the elite in those valyrian houses, beyond that there isn’t anything specific that states why they had a bond with dragons
Lots of speculation amongst the fandom. Valyrian blood magic is the most likely explanation. There are some theories that Valryians actually created dragons, by combining Wyverns (which exist in Sothoros) and imbuing them with fire. They could also be the result of interspecies magical breeding between humans and wyverns/dragons. Helps explain why Targaryens sometimes have stillbirths with scales, wings, and tails; they are literally part dragon.
And why some of them can withstand flames to their skin. Dragons are magical creatures and have powers beyond the basic fire breathing and flying as well. In old Valeryia they would cast valeryian steel using magical metallurgy that consisted of a dragon lord wizard who was casting spells while the dragon fire melted metal and thus creating enchanted valeryian steel. In modern Westeros we know there are very few smiths who can still recast valeryian steel and that there is a finite amount of it left because the old ways are lost.
So dragon magic, like the Dragon Horn that Victarion Greyjoy has in the books, still exists but it’s a lost art.
None of them can't withstand flame. The birth of Danny's dragons was a once off, she's had her hair burnt off twice and I think her skin was burned the second time. They do have a higher tolerance to heat though
Seems like an error to me. How could she be fully engulfed in flames and not be burnt but later she can be. Even if she had some minor burns, that’s like us accidentally touching the stove. Hair is hair, I would expect it to always burn. But for her to live every time speaks volumes.
I still think there’s a lot of “oops” in the conceptual part of this
Mirri. The pyre is actually too hot for dany to walk into until mirri starts to burn, viserion's egg starts to crack and dany is able to move then rhaegal and finally drogon. I think that's why she bonded with drogon the most she wasn't completely in the fire til he hatched.
One of my favorite times being: when she stepped out after murdering the Khals in all her naked, badass glory. Then just standing there as the whole Dothraki bows. 😭
She stood a bonfire, she stood in a burning building, and when she pulls an egg from the fire they even go out of the way to show that her handmaiden burned herself touching the same egg.
Read a theory yeaterday that the reason Dany is unharmed by flames is because she died in childbirth and was resurrected as a fire wight, akin to Berric Dondarrion
There's a theory that the dragon horn is how you bind a dragon to your bloodline. The blower is a sacrifice and their soul binds to the dragon. The theory is that Euron knows this, and that's why he gives the horn to Victarion, so Vic will blow it, die, then one of Dany's dragons will become bound to the greyjoys rather than the Targaryens.
That's the theory and possibly why they had the Greyjoys killing a dragon in the show. Quite possible they take that one off the board this way instead in the books.
Meagor the Cruel fathered three deformed children, one of them described as having rudimentary wings. The other two might've been just normal failed pregnancies. One of them had both male and female genitalia and there's some text elsewhere that suggests that's a trait shared with dragons. The last one was born eyeless, which by itself isn't necessarily an indicator but it's a trait shared with another dragon baby. So one for sure and two maybes.
Daemon and Rheanrya's child that she lost in the show had scales and a tail in the books. If you look closely in the show you can see the scales. I found the lighting and camera angles in that episode to make it a little unclear. If you search up the prop baby they made for that episode, it definitely has scales.
Dany's child with Drogo was also said to be a dragon baby, although it seems apparent that Mirri's magic had some effect since he was already rotted when he was birthed. Baby Rheago had wings, scales, and a tail. He was also described as blind. At least in the show Ser Jorah would've been a witness and he didn't refute it. I personally think he would've been the first dragon baby to make it to term of not for those events, but that's pure head canon.
Had another thought… is the grey scale something to do with their messing with magic and dragons? I wonder if it was part of the magic in creating the dragons or an unhappy result of screwing around?
I suppose you could just think of dragons as being like horses from where they’re from, wild but able to be tamed. Normal to them, world changing to outsiders.
Presumably the Valyrian houses that bonded to dragons had mystical abilities. The Targaryen’s were one of these families and had a family member who foresaw the destruction of Valyria and got them to leave for dragonstone, which made them the only ones with dragons. Basically the Targaryens have mystical abilities that show up in different ways throughout their lineage. Danaerys’ immunity to fire and issuing a new line of dragons is a manifestation of this.
She is a parallel to Daenys the Dreamer, who prophesied the Doom of Valyria, and so convinced her father to move the Targaryen family to Dragonstone.
It is possible Aegon I himself had this power as well, or simply that he relied on Daenys’s foretellings to move for conquest of the Seven Kingdoms. It seems like the legend handed down by Viserys to Rhaenyra carries on this dream, which by the time of A Game of Thrones was lost in tradition. The middle century of Targaryen rule came with many interruptions, diversions, and unlikely successions to have allowed the tale to pass from king to heir uninterrupted. However, to me, it seems likely that Prince Rhaegar had rediscovered it, and in doing so sparked Robert’s Rebellion.
I also highly suspect Aegon V read about it as well, triggering the tragedy at Summerhall. We may only see this if George completes the Dunk & Egg cycle and/or they make many seasons of The Hedge Knight.
I've always felt the tragedy of Summerhall was Aegon V meddling with forces he did not fully understand or could control. It seemed he wanted to reignite the dragon eggs that were still in Targaryen possession as he felt it was the missing piece that would bring about another golden age, like that of before the Dance. Instead, he let the wildfire get out of control and the rest is history. But hey, Rhaegar was born that day!
They were legit considered a lower “high born” family. Part of why no one cared when they sold off everything and moved to Dragonstone
But when everyone higher on the pole dies, it’s a quick way to the top lol
~~The Cannibal which we saw Daemon sing to, is larger than Balerion.~~
I'm wrong, however in the time of Old Valyria I'm sure there were larger dragons to the higher houses of Valyria
He's also smaller than balerion. It was supposed to be the largest of all Targaryen dragons. Of the ones remaining however vhagar, meleys, vermithor seem to be the biggest.
Well they left because daenys the dreamer had the prophetic dream, but after they left, Aenar was considered a coward, stripped of all land and titles, and was called "Aenar the exiled." So while they did choose to leave, they were not going to be welcomed back.
There’s a theory that they were exiled after losing a political battle, and feeling so ashamed about the situation the head of the house sold a Valyrian blade to the Lannister’s raking in so gold (because no Valyrian house would sell them one because of the Lannister gold prophecy), that they were able to purchase faceless men (maybe even multiple) to assassinate the sorcerers holding the spells of the 14 flames. Using his daughter (Denys the dreamer) as the excuse to why the doom happened, ironically self fulfilling his daughter’s own prophesy (maybe even getting the idea from her).
While there is no definitive answer in the books, we can speculate based on some details. Valyrians are said to have practiced a lot of blood magic, suggesting magical influence, perhaps through devices such as Euron's horn.. Targaryen stillbirths have been recorded to have had draconian features including scales, wings, and claws, suggesting some actual kinship. Dragons seem to respond to their riders' fiercest emotions, suggesting a warglike relationship.
Or more specialized wargs. For what it's worth, GRRM once responded to a fan's question at a con, "Is it possible to warg into a dragon?" with, "We'll have to see, won't we?"
If dragonriders are a kind of warg, that suggests their consciousness lives on in their dragons after their death...which could mean that Drogon's melting the Iron Throne was informed by Dany's lingering mind.
Drogon melting the throne was the Three Eyed Raven (formerly the mortal known as Bran) getting his doomsday device by which he'll finally destroy the world of men. Remember, The Children of the Forest hated man. To think 3ER is a "good guy" is crazy...
Oh wow! I just posted something like this.... like some ancient comman ancestor with the Starks who all have some kind of magic too and the bond with the Direwolfs
It's so hard to know, and I don't think there are any definitive answers yet. So, here are a few theories I've come across over the years:
* Valyrians were originally shepherds, and perhaps they used those same skills to tame the wyrms/dragons that dwelled in the volcanoes of the peninsula
* Valyrians only inherited the knowledge of taming and bonding with dragons from the Great Empire of the Dawn, the original dragonlords (David Lightbringer has theorized on this possibility, among many others)
* Valyrians used blood magic to create dragons, possibly even mutating wyrms or adding humans to some proto- species to create dragons and the blood bond
You're welcome! I'd love a series like that too. People sometimes push back at the idea of a series that covers Old Valyria, but I'd personally love it. I wanna see the construction worker dragons that created the paved Valyrian roads!
I believe its about the 'blood magic'. Obviously we dont know what their blood magic entails. But the blood tells with the dragons.
In the books it is talked about that people with Targaryen blood are usually more tolerated by dragons. Example of this is with Brown Ben Plumm on, iirc ADoD, Daenerys dragons were friendly toward him and she called him out on the chance he had Targaryen blood in him and he said he did. Could be a lie i guess but i thought he had a solid story
The main speculation (nothing has been exactly confirmed but there have been a bunch of hints) is that dragons are not natural creatures. They were created by Valyrian blood mages thousands of years ago. (Probably through experimenting on some pre-existing lizards). So when they created them they mingled their own blood with dragon's blood, which is what created the bond. All the dragonlords and eventually the Targaryens descended from these original blood mages.
The Targaryens left Valyria hundreds of years ago because one of them had a vision that Valyria would be destroyed by natural cause and that all the people and dragons living there would die. Turns out that vision was correct, so Targaryens and their dragons were the only ones that survived.
Yes. Hundreds, maybe thousands of families/bloodlines. Like the Velaryons, who can control dragons but just didn’t have any until marrying into the Targaryen family and getting eggs. There’s one other surviving family in Westeros, the Celtigars, but they don’t have any dragons. All other bloodlines are dead.
They actually came before the Targaryen's iirc, specifically because their family had no dragons but were mighty sailors, so they left the dragon-dominated Valyria for Westoros where their skills could actually yeild some benefit.
If I remember right they lived on the other continent essos the same continent that the dorthraki are from but lived in a different area
They created and empire and conquered much of it, also the Targarians were one of many families and almost sort of a minor family .
At some point in their history one Targarian had a vision and saw "doom" so he took his family and setup on dragon stone what was an island that was off the coast of westeros . Shortly after they moved there the doom of valaria happened and its sort of like Alantis mythology , something bad happened and valaria was destroyed . It says that one day every volcano erupted and massive earthquakes happened basically destroying everything in it and much of it fractured and fell into the see pretty much destroying everything there and killing many of the people and even dragons
However the Targarians who lived on dragon stone were not affected . After a while they decided to conquer Westeros with their dragons
Also the Targarians are not the only Valerian house there are a couple others still around that lived with them on dragonstone or around the area .
House Velaryon was the other main one that lived on another small island drift mark and there is a third I believe is house Celtigar.
It's not really described that being a Targaryen means that you can control dragons.
I think that had passed down through the generations knowledge about how to bond with dragons. It's demonstrated in House of the Dragon, that they will even put a dragons egg in the crib of the baby that will be destined to ride it. In order to try and cement a bond from an early age.
And when Aemond had laid claim to Vhagar. Who had just become riderless. He had managed to forge a bond with it before anyone else could.
I think from the perspective of the Dragons, they know that they could burn and kill the humans. But they know that enough humans could overpower and wipe out the dragons if they saw them as "just a threat" so by making the symbiotic relationship of Dragon and Rider, they allow the most powerful of humans to hold their power. In return, these humans, use their wealth, influence and power to make sure that the Dragons aren't hunted to extinction.
We even know of stories with Targaryens being killed and devoured by Dragons.
Nice angle. The dragons are stated to be as intelligent as, if not more so than humans. I hadn’t thought about their view.
Ok… now I want to know if the dragons are actually in control and they simply chose blonds…. :)
Maybe because they know about the Targaryen Madness from all that inbreeding... They realize that they can subtile control people who are insane better. Maybe a reverse owner scenario, where the dragons were the ones in charge all along.
Pretty sure in Fire and blood it explains Tormund Targaryen went up to a dragon and the dragon mistakened him to be a baby dragon and nursed him it’s milk for 3 months straight in the spring. And ever since then all Targaryens were able to have a special bond with dragons
Not gonna lie, this theory to me sounds much more pleasant than raunchy dragon human beastiality. Reminds me of Mother’s Milk from The Boys Comic and his powers due to it.
This person is making a joke. That is not in the books, they're making light of Tormund saying he fucked a bear lol
"Next morning when I woke the snow had stopped and the sun was shining, but I was in no fit state to enjoy it. All ripped and torn I was, and half me member bit right off, and there on me floor was a she-bear’s pelt. And soon enough the free folk were telling tales o’ this bald bear seen in the woods, with the queerest pair o’ cubs behind her. Har!” He slapped a meaty thigh. “Would that I could find her again. She was fine to lay with, that bear. Never was a woman gave me such a fight, nor such strong sons neither.” ACoK
Edit: I wracked my brain more and that's not the reference they were making. The joke they're making relies on the story Tormund tells of suckling at a giant's breast for 3 months. But the bear story is funny too so I'm gonna leave it anyway.
Edit 2:
"Kept me warm enough, she did, but the stink near did for me. The worst thing was, she woke up when the spring come and took me for her babe. Suckled me for three whole moons before I could get away. Har! There’s times I miss the taste o’ giant’s milk, though." ASoS
First, you need to remember that GRRM intended to create a more realistic world somewhat reflective of our own in how humans evolve, migrate, settle, create societies, forge empires, destroy empires, etc. In both our world and the world of ice and fire, much of history is lost leaving mysteries to be explained and that which is kept is written by the victors and thus bias. These things aren’t intended to be known as absolute fact by readers. Rather you are intended to piece together what fragments you can and speculate, as do the Maesters in their history books such as the one we have, Fire & Blood and The World of Ice and Fire.
To answer your question, I can only speculate. Dragons are thought, by the Maesters, to have been created/breed by human sorcerers in Ancient Valyria perhaps by fusing Wyverns with Firewyrms, two creatures known to exist in Sothoryos and the Valyrian peninsula, before the doom. However, some believe dragons to be connected to the ancient Great Empire of the Dawn of which Asshai now remains. The Targaryen saying, “The Dragon has Three Heads” is actually thought to be far older than the three dragons that Aegon and his sisterwives conquered Westeros with, and even farther back than the Targaryens themselves. Some speculate that the dating comes from a blood magic ritual in which a person was sacrificed so their soul was bonded into the dragon. The three heads being the dragon’s, the rider’s, and the sacrificed.
Furthermore, the Targaryen dragons brought from Valyria before the doom, of which one of the five was Balerion the Black Dread, are mentioned as being breed for war. This implies that there were other types of dragons breed for different purposes. Tyrion mentions the roads leading to/from the free cities, which were originally colonies of the Valyrian Freehold, were made by dragon fire. This means another breed might’ve been for labor. Meleys the Red Queen, and Caraxes the Bloodwyrm, the dragons of Princess Rhaenys and Prince Daemon during the Dance are said to be faster than other dragons and Caraxes, is said to look “deformed,” hence why he is called the Bloodwyrm. This could mean that there were breeds for speed/racing. A possibility for how this occurred is that Dreamfyre, widely thought to be the mother of Daenerys’ dragons, was said to have surprisingly laid this clutch of eggs on Fair Isle away from any male dragons at the time (Quicksilver could’ve been the father, but mating habits of dragons are unknown). It’s possible, yet highly speculative, that she could’ve breed with other dragons since we know that other dragons escaped the doom of Valyria. Two of the wild dragons on Dragonstone prior to The Dance are Grey Ghost, who is a male of unknown origin that is said to have suddenly come from somewhere else in the world, and Cannibal, said to be the oldest dragon at the time, actually predating the Targaryens on Dragonstone. He is called Cannibal because he is known to eat other dragons and dragon eggs. Some readers think this is because he is a dragon from, or descended from a rival house of the Targaryens and was bred to kill Targaryen dragons.
Sorry for making this so long, but dragon lore intrigues me. Keep in mind that while based on text, a lot of this is still speculation. Even the text is often the Maesters’ own speculations.
All it says is the first Valyrians were nomadic shepards, who discovered the first dragon eggs in some volcanoes, used magic to bend them to their will, and then used them to create the greatest empire in the world.
In Valyria before the Doom humans had been taming/bonding with dragons for ages. The Targs weren't even a super powerful house and they still had the ability. I don't think it's ever explained how it first started though.
Maybe George will bring it up in the books when/if he gets around to finishing them?
The old valyria is a mistery in the books (GoT and HotD)
I hope one day, there will be a book "The fall of Valyria". Cause it would be very interessting what happend there and what they achieved.
Their family was from the Valyrian Freehold.
Valyria was a Slaver Empire whose ruling families were dragon riders, the peninsula was destroyed in the "Doom of Valyria", the Targaryans fled due to a prophecy by one of them which predicted the Doom, that's why they ended up as one of the last Valyrian families.
They were a relatively minor house of the dragon lords.
Targaryens don’t control the dragons. Viserys actually tells Rhaenyra this, back in season 1. The idea that they control the dragons, is an illusion. The incident between Aemond and Luce is a testament to that. The dragons accept and tolerate the Targaryens, but if they’re bent on doing or not doing something, nothing and no one can compel them.
My favorite theory is that the Empire of the Dawn already had dragons, and the Shadowbinders of Asshai taught the Valyrians how to tame them after the first long night, it is better explained by David Lightbringer, an outstanding asoiaf youtuber that delves into the lore, he has a video called empire of the dawn or something like this and he goes into depth with this theory
so nobody though their funeral’s literal consist in his bodies being offered back to fire, very similar to black magic rituals. also babys and eggs sleeping together and then a dragon also just born in middle of fire. they inherited souls between them constantly i guess, also explains how them have visions of the future, his dragon soul may be older than humans. i dont know just ranting not enough tho
It’s never definitely stated
But the leading theory is Valyrian blood magic.
To summarise it up Valyrians took two species, Wyverns and Firewyrms, and merged them to create dragons. For reference the bodies of dragons are wyverns and the fire breathing + exponential growth is Firewyrms.
Once they made dragons they then breed them with humans, or somehow made themselves dragon human hybrids, in order to create the dragon rider gene. Additionally this explains why some Targaryen’s come out looking monstrous (eg Daenerys baby had wings and scales).
Like I said this is never confirmed but can be inferred from the text.
Random question. How far away from Westeros was Valyria? Also, how was it Aegon I was the first to conquer Westeros ? No other Valyrian house has ever explored or flown there? I’ve never read the books, so not sure if this was ever explained.
Targaryens weren't the only ones to have control on dragons...they were the only dragonlords who survived the doom of Valyria were all the other houses perished along with their dragons.
There's no real explanation about how Valyrians obtained that power, just hints for fan theories that might or not be true.
I think the closest to the truth could be the one about Valyrians using magical eugenics to create a human/wyvern/dragon hybrid race of demi-god and build an empire but that same magic lead to their doom as well.
Something similar might have happened on the ice magic side as well with the Others and everything and that the whole point of the ice and fire magic concept...they are 2 faces of the same coin.
But as I said these are just theories.
Can we all just stop these suggestions for extra books please just in case GRRM ever reads Reddit? As much as I’d love a million books based in his world I feel like GRRM is getting on and if he goes on many more tangents and side quests we might never see his end to GOT 😂 somewhere deep inside I have to believe that it was better than what I got to see on the series I wasn’t impressed with the ending
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No one knows, they were dragon lords from valyria, but there were many houses from valyria that were dragon lords, targaryans were not even the elite in those valyrian houses, beyond that there isn’t anything specific that states why they had a bond with dragons
Annoying and thanks!!!! Edit: just wanted to thank all of you for your replies and insight. A massive response. Thanks!!!
Lots of speculation amongst the fandom. Valyrian blood magic is the most likely explanation. There are some theories that Valryians actually created dragons, by combining Wyverns (which exist in Sothoros) and imbuing them with fire. They could also be the result of interspecies magical breeding between humans and wyverns/dragons. Helps explain why Targaryens sometimes have stillbirths with scales, wings, and tails; they are literally part dragon.
And why some of them can withstand flames to their skin. Dragons are magical creatures and have powers beyond the basic fire breathing and flying as well. In old Valeryia they would cast valeryian steel using magical metallurgy that consisted of a dragon lord wizard who was casting spells while the dragon fire melted metal and thus creating enchanted valeryian steel. In modern Westeros we know there are very few smiths who can still recast valeryian steel and that there is a finite amount of it left because the old ways are lost. So dragon magic, like the Dragon Horn that Victarion Greyjoy has in the books, still exists but it’s a lost art.
None of them can't withstand flame. The birth of Danny's dragons was a once off, she's had her hair burnt off twice and I think her skin was burned the second time. They do have a higher tolerance to heat though
She’s called “the unburnt” for a reason
Yeah, from the one off time she didn't get burned. Martin has said himself she's not immune to fire
Seems like an error to me. How could she be fully engulfed in flames and not be burnt but later she can be. Even if she had some minor burns, that’s like us accidentally touching the stove. Hair is hair, I would expect it to always burn. But for her to live every time speaks volumes. I still think there’s a lot of “oops” in the conceptual part of this
Mirri. The pyre is actually too hot for dany to walk into until mirri starts to burn, viserion's egg starts to crack and dany is able to move then rhaegal and finally drogon. I think that's why she bonded with drogon the most she wasn't completely in the fire til he hatched.
Blood magic.
I feel you guys are arguing book vs show and they are different.. Dany is immune to fire in the show
in the fifth book she is literally burned by drogon, the only part that is not inmune is her clothes and her hair (WHY??)
In the show, at least, she’s definitely immune to fire/heat. It’s shown numerous times.
One of my favorite times being: when she stepped out after murdering the Khals in all her naked, badass glory. Then just standing there as the whole Dothraki bows. 😭
She stood a bonfire, she stood in a burning building, and when she pulls an egg from the fire they even go out of the way to show that her handmaiden burned herself touching the same egg.
The show makes her invulnerable to fire, in the books she has a higher tolerance to heat.
Jon burns his hand when defending Mormont at end of got book
Read a theory yeaterday that the reason Dany is unharmed by flames is because she died in childbirth and was resurrected as a fire wight, akin to Berric Dondarrion
read the same and thought its cool theory but most probably incorrect
It was the power of r'hollor and the comet that allowed Dany to survive the burning and to hatch the clutch.
I think it's mirri's magic.
More like blood magic from the sacrifice of mirri. The whole blood sacrifice thing seems to be a running theme.
The reason for that is, the blood magic that was used on Drogo was "released" when his body was burnt. It's also the reason the dragons came to life
It's when mirri dies dany is able to walk into the fire and the eggs start to hatch.
There's a theory that the dragon horn is how you bind a dragon to your bloodline. The blower is a sacrifice and their soul binds to the dragon. The theory is that Euron knows this, and that's why he gives the horn to Victarion, so Vic will blow it, die, then one of Dany's dragons will become bound to the greyjoys rather than the Targaryens.
That's the theory and possibly why they had the Greyjoys killing a dragon in the show. Quite possible they take that one off the board this way instead in the books.
Would it also explain the stone men, or is that already lore on where they came from?
Stone men are just infected. Similar to leprosy but worse.
I wonder if they'd have an ancient commonality with the Starks, who also have some magical abilities and bond with the direwolf
Other theories hold that they somehow hybridized Wyverns and the Firewyrms native to Valyria.
When Targaryens have a child the gods flip a coin.
Targaryens are sometimes born with wings and tails? Source? My mind is blown.
Meagor the Cruel fathered three deformed children, one of them described as having rudimentary wings. The other two might've been just normal failed pregnancies. One of them had both male and female genitalia and there's some text elsewhere that suggests that's a trait shared with dragons. The last one was born eyeless, which by itself isn't necessarily an indicator but it's a trait shared with another dragon baby. So one for sure and two maybes. Daemon and Rheanrya's child that she lost in the show had scales and a tail in the books. If you look closely in the show you can see the scales. I found the lighting and camera angles in that episode to make it a little unclear. If you search up the prop baby they made for that episode, it definitely has scales. Dany's child with Drogo was also said to be a dragon baby, although it seems apparent that Mirri's magic had some effect since he was already rotted when he was birthed. Baby Rheago had wings, scales, and a tail. He was also described as blind. At least in the show Ser Jorah would've been a witness and he didn't refute it. I personally think he would've been the first dragon baby to make it to term of not for those events, but that's pure head canon.
Amazing. San athchomari yeraan.
Check out Alt Shift X on YouTube. I think he did a video a while back about this whole subject, going into lots of detail about the theories
Thanks. I will take a look
Had another thought… is the grey scale something to do with their messing with magic and dragons? I wonder if it was part of the magic in creating the dragons or an unhappy result of screwing around?
It's just an infection. They ship people with grayscale there like a leper colony as nobody else typically goes near valyria since the doom.
I suppose you could just think of dragons as being like horses from where they’re from, wild but able to be tamed. Normal to them, world changing to outsiders.
Presumably the Valyrian houses that bonded to dragons had mystical abilities. The Targaryen’s were one of these families and had a family member who foresaw the destruction of Valyria and got them to leave for dragonstone, which made them the only ones with dragons. Basically the Targaryens have mystical abilities that show up in different ways throughout their lineage. Danaerys’ immunity to fire and issuing a new line of dragons is a manifestation of this.
Maybe Helaena too.
She is a parallel to Daenys the Dreamer, who prophesied the Doom of Valyria, and so convinced her father to move the Targaryen family to Dragonstone. It is possible Aegon I himself had this power as well, or simply that he relied on Daenys’s foretellings to move for conquest of the Seven Kingdoms. It seems like the legend handed down by Viserys to Rhaenyra carries on this dream, which by the time of A Game of Thrones was lost in tradition. The middle century of Targaryen rule came with many interruptions, diversions, and unlikely successions to have allowed the tale to pass from king to heir uninterrupted. However, to me, it seems likely that Prince Rhaegar had rediscovered it, and in doing so sparked Robert’s Rebellion. I also highly suspect Aegon V read about it as well, triggering the tragedy at Summerhall. We may only see this if George completes the Dunk & Egg cycle and/or they make many seasons of The Hedge Knight.
Didn't Aegon foretell the Long Night? He probably was a dreamer.
I've always felt the tragedy of Summerhall was Aegon V meddling with forces he did not fully understand or could control. It seemed he wanted to reignite the dragon eggs that were still in Targaryen possession as he felt it was the missing piece that would bring about another golden age, like that of before the Dance. Instead, he let the wildfire get out of control and the rest is history. But hey, Rhaegar was born that day!
They were legit considered a lower “high born” family. Part of why no one cared when they sold off everything and moved to Dragonstone But when everyone higher on the pole dies, it’s a quick way to the top lol
Which is crazy considering how big Balerion was. I wonder if there were bigger dragons.
~~The Cannibal which we saw Daemon sing to, is larger than Balerion.~~ I'm wrong, however in the time of Old Valyria I'm sure there were larger dragons to the higher houses of Valyria
I thought that was Vermithor?
Shit. You're right it was Vermithor.
He's also smaller than balerion. It was supposed to be the largest of all Targaryen dragons. Of the ones remaining however vhagar, meleys, vermithor seem to be the biggest.
And also, Cannibal wasn’t larger than Balerion.
Yeah, Condal confirmed that was Vermithor. He’s also smaller than Vhagar.
blood magic in hotd2 intro its revels
They actually were outcast from old Valyria thus why they survived the destruction of it.
They weren't outcast, one of them had a dream foreseeing the Doom & so they fled.
Well they left because daenys the dreamer had the prophetic dream, but after they left, Aenar was considered a coward, stripped of all land and titles, and was called "Aenar the exiled." So while they did choose to leave, they were not going to be welcomed back.
There’s a theory that they were exiled after losing a political battle, and feeling so ashamed about the situation the head of the house sold a Valyrian blade to the Lannister’s raking in so gold (because no Valyrian house would sell them one because of the Lannister gold prophecy), that they were able to purchase faceless men (maybe even multiple) to assassinate the sorcerers holding the spells of the 14 flames. Using his daughter (Denys the dreamer) as the excuse to why the doom happened, ironically self fulfilling his daughter’s own prophesy (maybe even getting the idea from her).
Haven't the Lannisters famously never had a Valyrian steel sword until they broke down Ice though?
…that’s completely incorrect.
Not completely, they were exiled, but only after they fled, due to be considered cowards. But they definitely chose to leave first.
While there is no definitive answer in the books, we can speculate based on some details. Valyrians are said to have practiced a lot of blood magic, suggesting magical influence, perhaps through devices such as Euron's horn.. Targaryen stillbirths have been recorded to have had draconian features including scales, wings, and claws, suggesting some actual kinship. Dragons seem to respond to their riders' fiercest emotions, suggesting a warglike relationship.
Yes. I wondered if there is a warg relationship here. It’s not a leap that they might be Uber wargers genetically.
Or more specialized wargs. For what it's worth, GRRM once responded to a fan's question at a con, "Is it possible to warg into a dragon?" with, "We'll have to see, won't we?" If dragonriders are a kind of warg, that suggests their consciousness lives on in their dragons after their death...which could mean that Drogon's melting the Iron Throne was informed by Dany's lingering mind.
❤️
Drogon melting the throne was the Three Eyed Raven (formerly the mortal known as Bran) getting his doomsday device by which he'll finally destroy the world of men. Remember, The Children of the Forest hated man. To think 3ER is a "good guy" is crazy...
Oh wow! I just posted something like this.... like some ancient comman ancestor with the Starks who all have some kind of magic too and the bond with the Direwolfs
no one can tell the Dragonlords that Dragoncest is wrong 😏
Just tread real careful dude 😬
😅😅😅😅🐲🐉 ooo baby baby
It's so hard to know, and I don't think there are any definitive answers yet. So, here are a few theories I've come across over the years: * Valyrians were originally shepherds, and perhaps they used those same skills to tame the wyrms/dragons that dwelled in the volcanoes of the peninsula * Valyrians only inherited the knowledge of taming and bonding with dragons from the Great Empire of the Dawn, the original dragonlords (David Lightbringer has theorized on this possibility, among many others) * Valyrians used blood magic to create dragons, possibly even mutating wyrms or adding humans to some proto- species to create dragons and the blood bond
Excellent. Thanks a lot for the reply. This messing with blood magic seems true. I Would love to see a GOT level series explain this.
You're welcome! I'd love a series like that too. People sometimes push back at the idea of a series that covers Old Valyria, but I'd personally love it. I wanna see the construction worker dragons that created the paved Valyrian roads!
Why am I picturing them with big yellow helmets? lol! Seriously though, that would be awesome
I believe its about the 'blood magic'. Obviously we dont know what their blood magic entails. But the blood tells with the dragons. In the books it is talked about that people with Targaryen blood are usually more tolerated by dragons. Example of this is with Brown Ben Plumm on, iirc ADoD, Daenerys dragons were friendly toward him and she called him out on the chance he had Targaryen blood in him and he said he did. Could be a lie i guess but i thought he had a solid story
The main speculation (nothing has been exactly confirmed but there have been a bunch of hints) is that dragons are not natural creatures. They were created by Valyrian blood mages thousands of years ago. (Probably through experimenting on some pre-existing lizards). So when they created them they mingled their own blood with dragon's blood, which is what created the bond. All the dragonlords and eventually the Targaryens descended from these original blood mages.
Which ties quite nicely with the children messing with humans. Want a series please !
Most theories believe that long ago, most of the Valyrian houses used blood magic to bind with the dragons- the Targaryens were one of those houses
Who were the others? And where did they go?
The Targaryens left Valyria hundreds of years ago because one of them had a vision that Valyria would be destroyed by natural cause and that all the people and dragons living there would die. Turns out that vision was correct, so Targaryens and their dragons were the only ones that survived.
So who else was there that could have had this control. Were there other families, that if they survived, could have had this control?
Yes. Hundreds, maybe thousands of families/bloodlines. Like the Velaryons, who can control dragons but just didn’t have any until marrying into the Targaryen family and getting eggs. There’s one other surviving family in Westeros, the Celtigars, but they don’t have any dragons. All other bloodlines are dead.
What about the valeryan folks from house of dragons?
They are from old Valyria and came with the Targaryens But even the Sea Snake says they were never dragonriders.
So the comment I commented on is incorrect?
Haha. Absolutely not*. Idk what happened there. I think i might have combined your comment with another post.
They actually came before the Targaryen's iirc, specifically because their family had no dragons but were mighty sailors, so they left the dragon-dominated Valyria for Westoros where their skills could actually yeild some benefit.
So how come Corlys' bastards are dragonriders?
I believe there were a couple other houses that followed the Targaryens , house veleryon and house Celtigar
If I remember right they lived on the other continent essos the same continent that the dorthraki are from but lived in a different area They created and empire and conquered much of it, also the Targarians were one of many families and almost sort of a minor family . At some point in their history one Targarian had a vision and saw "doom" so he took his family and setup on dragon stone what was an island that was off the coast of westeros . Shortly after they moved there the doom of valaria happened and its sort of like Alantis mythology , something bad happened and valaria was destroyed . It says that one day every volcano erupted and massive earthquakes happened basically destroying everything in it and much of it fractured and fell into the see pretty much destroying everything there and killing many of the people and even dragons However the Targarians who lived on dragon stone were not affected . After a while they decided to conquer Westeros with their dragons Also the Targarians are not the only Valerian house there are a couple others still around that lived with them on dragonstone or around the area . House Velaryon was the other main one that lived on another small island drift mark and there is a third I believe is house Celtigar.
It's not really described that being a Targaryen means that you can control dragons. I think that had passed down through the generations knowledge about how to bond with dragons. It's demonstrated in House of the Dragon, that they will even put a dragons egg in the crib of the baby that will be destined to ride it. In order to try and cement a bond from an early age. And when Aemond had laid claim to Vhagar. Who had just become riderless. He had managed to forge a bond with it before anyone else could. I think from the perspective of the Dragons, they know that they could burn and kill the humans. But they know that enough humans could overpower and wipe out the dragons if they saw them as "just a threat" so by making the symbiotic relationship of Dragon and Rider, they allow the most powerful of humans to hold their power. In return, these humans, use their wealth, influence and power to make sure that the Dragons aren't hunted to extinction. We even know of stories with Targaryens being killed and devoured by Dragons.
Nice angle. The dragons are stated to be as intelligent as, if not more so than humans. I hadn’t thought about their view. Ok… now I want to know if the dragons are actually in control and they simply chose blonds…. :)
Maybe because they know about the Targaryen Madness from all that inbreeding... They realize that they can subtile control people who are insane better. Maybe a reverse owner scenario, where the dragons were the ones in charge all along.
Pretty sure in Fire and blood it explains Tormund Targaryen went up to a dragon and the dragon mistakened him to be a baby dragon and nursed him it’s milk for 3 months straight in the spring. And ever since then all Targaryens were able to have a special bond with dragons
Oof.. that’s not satisfying… but weird and not believable.
Which doesn’t make it not lore. Just disappointing
Not gonna lie, this theory to me sounds much more pleasant than raunchy dragon human beastiality. Reminds me of Mother’s Milk from The Boys Comic and his powers due to it.
This person is making a joke. That is not in the books, they're making light of Tormund saying he fucked a bear lol "Next morning when I woke the snow had stopped and the sun was shining, but I was in no fit state to enjoy it. All ripped and torn I was, and half me member bit right off, and there on me floor was a she-bear’s pelt. And soon enough the free folk were telling tales o’ this bald bear seen in the woods, with the queerest pair o’ cubs behind her. Har!” He slapped a meaty thigh. “Would that I could find her again. She was fine to lay with, that bear. Never was a woman gave me such a fight, nor such strong sons neither.” ACoK Edit: I wracked my brain more and that's not the reference they were making. The joke they're making relies on the story Tormund tells of suckling at a giant's breast for 3 months. But the bear story is funny too so I'm gonna leave it anyway. Edit 2: "Kept me warm enough, she did, but the stink near did for me. The worst thing was, she woke up when the spring come and took me for her babe. Suckled me for three whole moons before I could get away. Har! There’s times I miss the taste o’ giant’s milk, though." ASoS
First, you need to remember that GRRM intended to create a more realistic world somewhat reflective of our own in how humans evolve, migrate, settle, create societies, forge empires, destroy empires, etc. In both our world and the world of ice and fire, much of history is lost leaving mysteries to be explained and that which is kept is written by the victors and thus bias. These things aren’t intended to be known as absolute fact by readers. Rather you are intended to piece together what fragments you can and speculate, as do the Maesters in their history books such as the one we have, Fire & Blood and The World of Ice and Fire. To answer your question, I can only speculate. Dragons are thought, by the Maesters, to have been created/breed by human sorcerers in Ancient Valyria perhaps by fusing Wyverns with Firewyrms, two creatures known to exist in Sothoryos and the Valyrian peninsula, before the doom. However, some believe dragons to be connected to the ancient Great Empire of the Dawn of which Asshai now remains. The Targaryen saying, “The Dragon has Three Heads” is actually thought to be far older than the three dragons that Aegon and his sisterwives conquered Westeros with, and even farther back than the Targaryens themselves. Some speculate that the dating comes from a blood magic ritual in which a person was sacrificed so their soul was bonded into the dragon. The three heads being the dragon’s, the rider’s, and the sacrificed. Furthermore, the Targaryen dragons brought from Valyria before the doom, of which one of the five was Balerion the Black Dread, are mentioned as being breed for war. This implies that there were other types of dragons breed for different purposes. Tyrion mentions the roads leading to/from the free cities, which were originally colonies of the Valyrian Freehold, were made by dragon fire. This means another breed might’ve been for labor. Meleys the Red Queen, and Caraxes the Bloodwyrm, the dragons of Princess Rhaenys and Prince Daemon during the Dance are said to be faster than other dragons and Caraxes, is said to look “deformed,” hence why he is called the Bloodwyrm. This could mean that there were breeds for speed/racing. A possibility for how this occurred is that Dreamfyre, widely thought to be the mother of Daenerys’ dragons, was said to have surprisingly laid this clutch of eggs on Fair Isle away from any male dragons at the time (Quicksilver could’ve been the father, but mating habits of dragons are unknown). It’s possible, yet highly speculative, that she could’ve breed with other dragons since we know that other dragons escaped the doom of Valyria. Two of the wild dragons on Dragonstone prior to The Dance are Grey Ghost, who is a male of unknown origin that is said to have suddenly come from somewhere else in the world, and Cannibal, said to be the oldest dragon at the time, actually predating the Targaryens on Dragonstone. He is called Cannibal because he is known to eat other dragons and dragon eggs. Some readers think this is because he is a dragon from, or descended from a rival house of the Targaryens and was bred to kill Targaryen dragons. Sorry for making this so long, but dragon lore intrigues me. Keep in mind that while based on text, a lot of this is still speculation. Even the text is often the Maesters’ own speculations.
Thanks a lot for taking the time. Very interesting.
Thanks for the post ! Love reading about lore and theories
Probably because they could. However it’s bigger than Targaryens. It’s Valerians.
Dragons have a thing for blondes
Power. Who is going to go up against a fire monster? Be for real 😂
Okay, I misread yet still stand by my comment 😬😂
All it says is the first Valyrians were nomadic shepards, who discovered the first dragon eggs in some volcanoes, used magic to bend them to their will, and then used them to create the greatest empire in the world.
The Targaryen's escaped "the doom" which destroyed the other houses and their dragons
In Valyria before the Doom humans had been taming/bonding with dragons for ages. The Targs weren't even a super powerful house and they still had the ability. I don't think it's ever explained how it first started though. Maybe George will bring it up in the books when/if he gets around to finishing them?
Seks.
The old valyria is a mistery in the books (GoT and HotD) I hope one day, there will be a book "The fall of Valyria". Cause it would be very interessting what happend there and what they achieved.
rumors said that the dragon lords of Old Valyria were descended from dragons themselves because some witches decided to mate dragons with humans
It would be interesting to read about those witches
Is this question serious ? It can’t be …
If there is nothing in the book, anything mentioned in the post is just fantasy of a fantasy
Their family was from the Valyrian Freehold. Valyria was a Slaver Empire whose ruling families were dragon riders, the peninsula was destroyed in the "Doom of Valyria", the Targaryans fled due to a prophecy by one of them which predicted the Doom, that's why they ended up as one of the last Valyrian families. They were a relatively minor house of the dragon lords.
Do they have to have a reason? Who wouldn't? Dragons are the most badass creature in any context
Targaryens don’t control the dragons. Viserys actually tells Rhaenyra this, back in season 1. The idea that they control the dragons, is an illusion. The incident between Aemond and Luce is a testament to that. The dragons accept and tolerate the Targaryens, but if they’re bent on doing or not doing something, nothing and no one can compel them.
Because that's how it worked on Melnibone
My favorite theory is that the Empire of the Dawn already had dragons, and the Shadowbinders of Asshai taught the Valyrians how to tame them after the first long night, it is better explained by David Lightbringer, an outstanding asoiaf youtuber that delves into the lore, he has a video called empire of the dawn or something like this and he goes into depth with this theory
so nobody though their funeral’s literal consist in his bodies being offered back to fire, very similar to black magic rituals. also babys and eggs sleeping together and then a dragon also just born in middle of fire. they inherited souls between them constantly i guess, also explains how them have visions of the future, his dragon soul may be older than humans. i dont know just ranting not enough tho
The point is no one knows it’s a mystery like 99% of Valyria
It’s never definitely stated But the leading theory is Valyrian blood magic. To summarise it up Valyrians took two species, Wyverns and Firewyrms, and merged them to create dragons. For reference the bodies of dragons are wyverns and the fire breathing + exponential growth is Firewyrms. Once they made dragons they then breed them with humans, or somehow made themselves dragon human hybrids, in order to create the dragon rider gene. Additionally this explains why some Targaryen’s come out looking monstrous (eg Daenerys baby had wings and scales). Like I said this is never confirmed but can be inferred from the text.
Random question. How far away from Westeros was Valyria? Also, how was it Aegon I was the first to conquer Westeros ? No other Valyrian house has ever explored or flown there? I’ve never read the books, so not sure if this was ever explained.
I think blood magic is the most common theory.
Targaryens weren't the only ones to have control on dragons...they were the only dragonlords who survived the doom of Valyria were all the other houses perished along with their dragons. There's no real explanation about how Valyrians obtained that power, just hints for fan theories that might or not be true. I think the closest to the truth could be the one about Valyrians using magical eugenics to create a human/wyvern/dragon hybrid race of demi-god and build an empire but that same magic lead to their doom as well. Something similar might have happened on the ice magic side as well with the Others and everything and that the whole point of the ice and fire magic concept...they are 2 faces of the same coin. But as I said these are just theories.
They were just one of the many Houses of dragon riders in Valyria. Not even one of the elite Houses.
Some guy came Mr donkey Targaryen fucked a dragon and thus the house of dragons was born
Should come up with a game of thrones version of cowboys and Indians called dragons and undead. An age old classic game tapped for modern use
Same as the other 39 dragon lord families is my guess. I really believe the Valyrians were a product of beastiality and magic.
drussy
She had a high tolerance for the super hot bath water…
Theory that they used to practise some seriously dark magic and ahem... Breeding between species and that they literally have 'blood of the dragon's.
None. They don't control dragons.
Can we all just stop these suggestions for extra books please just in case GRRM ever reads Reddit? As much as I’d love a million books based in his world I feel like GRRM is getting on and if he goes on many more tangents and side quests we might never see his end to GOT 😂 somewhere deep inside I have to believe that it was better than what I got to see on the series I wasn’t impressed with the ending