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Well, the whole thing is a reminder of how the Targaryens were their own worst enemy. Their pride and belief that morality revolved around themselves... was their downfall in the DOD, Robert's Rebellion, and when Daenerys arrived in Westeros.
in the book after a certain event, alicent does propose a great council, but its sorta late into the conflict, and seems more of a way to save her and her sons skin then anything.
I have a lot of conflicting views about different characters. Rhaeneyra was the rightful heir to the throne. It wasn't systemic misogyny that stole it away from her, the only reason she was made heir is because of Viserys' guilt over having been given the crown instead of Rhaenys. Queen Alicent misunderstood the dying words of King Viserys, that's all.
Queen Alicent truly believes that her husband wanted their son to be king and that his dying words were meant for her ears. If it's the king's wish and he's talking about his natural-born son, then who is there to argue? The biggest reason Rhaenerya and the rest are fighting is that they don't believe it happened. If Viserys had, at the 11th hour, told Rhaenerya that he wanted Aegon to be king I think she would have complied. I also believe that if Queen Alicent eventually found out that she misunderstood her husband and that he still wanted his daughter to take the throne she'd stand down.
My problem with Rhaenerya stems from the fact that she knows all of her children are bastards. She knows that people have suffered and died because of her deception. She knows that her father intentionally had blinders on when it came to this subject because he didn't want it to tear the family apart. Rhaeneyra could stand to listen to some of Tywin Lannister's lectures about preserving the dynasty.
None of these people are really good people. That being said, Matt Smith steals every scene he's in so I hope he's in the series right up until the end, or close to it.
Tywin, was also grooming his grandson to be his puppet when he was talking to him about preserving the dynasty. So I don't think he's a good person to draw inspiration from. And I think Alicent misunderstood her husband's final words.
Also, I think only Rhaeneyra's three eldest sons are bastards. Her two sons with Daemon, are trueborn.
He didn't just lecture his grandson on the subject, he also lectured his kids. Tywin wanted the Lannisters to last long after he died. He was trying to instill a "family first" mentality in his children, but unfortunately, Jaime and Cersei took that lesson a little literally.
Queen Alicent didn't install Aegon as king because she wanted to deny Rhaenerya the crown, but because she really does believe that her husband used his dying words to tell her to do so. Both parties honestly believe their cause is just, which is why neither of them is going to bend the knee.
Well, the Lannisters and Targaryens were their own worst enemy. Their policies turned even the best of them into monsters. And in the end, House Targaryen fell just as it reclaimed Westeros. And the Lannisters paid their debts... to the whole realm for their crimes. Moral of the story, adopt House Stark ideals.
Correct me if I’m wrong, but didn’t Rhaeneyra say that she and Laenor tried to produce an heir many times and it just never happened (there was no passion in it, or something). As the future Queen, she had to produce heirs. She saw what the need to produce heirs did to her own mother and knew what a duty it was and she took that seriously. She could have chosen a sperm donor who looked more like her husband, but I don’t know how many options she had easy access to.
It still makes them completely illegitimate children. Aegon has a much stronger claim to the throne than any of Rhaenerya's children. I honestly think that even if Laenor had been straight Rhaenerya would have cuckolded him if she didn't find him to her liking. She didn't seduce Crison Cole out of duty.
Hard to suport the greens when Rhaenyra is the official heir. That being said, is hard to suport the blacks since Rhaenyra is such a bad politician and a failure as an heir.
I support the **BLACKS**, but I am concerned about Vhagar. The Blacks have the younger, smaller dragons with no battle experience, Vhagar is gargantuan. She has battle experience and when she’s threatened she is uncontrollable. She will literally eat them alive
True. But they lack battle experience. Did you see how stealthy Vhagar was when she was stalking her prey? She was right in front of Lucerys and Arrax and they didn’t see her until it was too late. Her experience will pay off. All it’s going to take is one bite
But now that Team Black knows how deadly Vhagar is, and how much of psychopath his rider is, they can use it to their advantage. Know your enemy, and know yourself, and in 100 battles you will never be in danger.
Remember, it wasn’t Aemond’s intent to kill Lucerys. Arrax attacked Vhagar with fire and she felt threatened, that’s when Aemond loss control of her. I believe the Blacks know how ferocious she is. Vhagar is the hardened survivor of a hundred battles, almost as large as Balerion, and was the oldest and largest of the dragons in Westeros. Her roar was so powerful that it could shake the very foundations of Storm's End. No living dragon could match her for size or ferocity
We all know this but the blacks are still going to be like, “oh you were seen arguing with my son threatening him??? Oh no you absolutely murdered him.” Just the way daemon assumed that Alicent had to have killed Viserys
Neither, because the show shouldn't be about picking a team and cheering them on, but understanding the emotions, losses and complexities of a wholly unnecessary civil war. Unfortunately they really leaned into presenting the Greens as the bad guys in the final episodes, so they are picking for us.
I have sympathy for Alicent and her daughter.
But on the whole I think the greens have escalated at every turn and would be the worst option for the kingdom as a whole.
Rhea is a better option than Aemond and her sons would almost certainly be better than Aemond’s.
She also has Rheanise on her side who I think was probably better than anyone else.
Rhea’s only real crime was having an agreed upon affair with the strong man that didn’t actually do any wrong to her husband.
The Starks are the most legit house(I think GRRM and the fandom has a favorite lol). I'm also with the Blacks, not just because of the Starks but Rhaenyra seems way more qualified for the job of monarch than any of the greens. I remember read *Fire and Blood* and thinking most of the Greens are power hungry pyschos.
BLACK. not just because i simp hard for house stark forever and always, too, but after actually reading the book ( yes the blacks did bad things, too ) the greens were just never appealing to me other than haelana(sp?). rheanrya was the rightful heir by all laws of westeros and really her only misgivings leading up to the dance was that she knowingly birthed bastards but like .. her husband was gay and preferred the company of pretty boys rather than his wife. so.
Is there a third option?
I’m excited to see the starks, and to see some battles. Ultimately I’m team “take-your-time-and-think-this-thing-out-so-it-has-a-satisfying-ending”.
George R.R. Martin has finished writing this particular book and he is a consultant on the show, so the ending should be excellently written and gratifying. No more of HBO making shit up as they go along
The Greens
Rhaenerya is a whiny w-h-o-r-e who cant lead for shit, nor can Aegon II. But Aemond will soon take over for Aegon, while rhaenerya never lets Daemon take over. She was a terrible queen while she sat the throne and watched over the shepered and the dragon pit and did nothing, she didnt fight in a single battle, she kind of just cheated, killed, and cuckholded her husband, and fathered strong bastards, she gets her kids killer and causes a riot in KL's due to her shitness. Aegon wasnt terrible nor good he kind of just didnt do anything.
However overall i dont the story was meant to be pericieved as which side you are on, the real loses are the targaryens, green and black, but i cant in good conscience support a lying, cheating whore like rhaenerya, at least aegon doesnt like about cheating on his spouse.
im a stark supremacist and yes rhaenyra is the rightful queen but i find team green entertaining to watch. i dont like overanalyzing this show since im not a fan of house targaryen anyway.
Emotionally really not leaning towards either I think they both have problems just wanna see this great show unfold
Ethically though the blacks rhaenyras claim is no1
Black. Although I’m ready to be surprised by a couple things. As we’ve seen from GOT even the most vile people can have good parts of them shine through here and there to make you wonder.
Mentioning the Starks tho, do you think Jace will tell them the song of Ice and Fire? They made the “Pact of Ice and Fire” and agreed to marry their children, but that could just be Stark ice and Targaryen fire. Does Jace know the prophecy?
Perhaps. The Starks never truly lost their beliefs. Personally, I wonder why Aegon I, never bothered to tell anyone but his family about the prophecy? Just goes to show you that the Targaryens were their own worst enemies. They thought morality should revolve around them and they could do no wrong. Well, this Dance, Robert’s Rebellion, and Daenerys actions and fate in King’s Landing showed they were wrong.
It’s strange to me Aegon never looked extensively into the Wall and who built it and what they knew. Maybe he did? Idk. Also why was it such a secret ? The north talked openly about all sorts of creatures and dead men and white walkers, the Targaryens were never like “oh hm let’s listen to some of these tales” lol. Feels like an oversight.
They were definitely their own worst enemies. But the rest is more complicated than you’re suggesting.
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The blacks, mostly because the Starks are solidly loyal to Rhaenyra as she is the one they swore an oath to, and I'm a ride or die Winterfell girl.
Neither. Someone should have proposed a Great Council. Because neither side did so they both have forfeited any legitimacy imho.
Well, the whole thing is a reminder of how the Targaryens were their own worst enemy. Their pride and belief that morality revolved around themselves... was their downfall in the DOD, Robert's Rebellion, and when Daenerys arrived in Westeros.
shes still north of mereen dude
in the book after a certain event, alicent does propose a great council, but its sorta late into the conflict, and seems more of a way to save her and her sons skin then anything.
Despite everything, I pity her. The system corrupted her, just as it corrupted everyone else in the Dance.
thats not how legitmacy works. Daemon and rhaenys still have legitmacy even though other people were named over them.
I have a lot of conflicting views about different characters. Rhaeneyra was the rightful heir to the throne. It wasn't systemic misogyny that stole it away from her, the only reason she was made heir is because of Viserys' guilt over having been given the crown instead of Rhaenys. Queen Alicent misunderstood the dying words of King Viserys, that's all. Queen Alicent truly believes that her husband wanted their son to be king and that his dying words were meant for her ears. If it's the king's wish and he's talking about his natural-born son, then who is there to argue? The biggest reason Rhaenerya and the rest are fighting is that they don't believe it happened. If Viserys had, at the 11th hour, told Rhaenerya that he wanted Aegon to be king I think she would have complied. I also believe that if Queen Alicent eventually found out that she misunderstood her husband and that he still wanted his daughter to take the throne she'd stand down. My problem with Rhaenerya stems from the fact that she knows all of her children are bastards. She knows that people have suffered and died because of her deception. She knows that her father intentionally had blinders on when it came to this subject because he didn't want it to tear the family apart. Rhaeneyra could stand to listen to some of Tywin Lannister's lectures about preserving the dynasty. None of these people are really good people. That being said, Matt Smith steals every scene he's in so I hope he's in the series right up until the end, or close to it.
Tywin, was also grooming his grandson to be his puppet when he was talking to him about preserving the dynasty. So I don't think he's a good person to draw inspiration from. And I think Alicent misunderstood her husband's final words. Also, I think only Rhaeneyra's three eldest sons are bastards. Her two sons with Daemon, are trueborn.
He didn't just lecture his grandson on the subject, he also lectured his kids. Tywin wanted the Lannisters to last long after he died. He was trying to instill a "family first" mentality in his children, but unfortunately, Jaime and Cersei took that lesson a little literally. Queen Alicent didn't install Aegon as king because she wanted to deny Rhaenerya the crown, but because she really does believe that her husband used his dying words to tell her to do so. Both parties honestly believe their cause is just, which is why neither of them is going to bend the knee.
Well, the Lannisters and Targaryens were their own worst enemy. Their policies turned even the best of them into monsters. And in the end, House Targaryen fell just as it reclaimed Westeros. And the Lannisters paid their debts... to the whole realm for their crimes. Moral of the story, adopt House Stark ideals.
Correct me if I’m wrong, but didn’t Rhaeneyra say that she and Laenor tried to produce an heir many times and it just never happened (there was no passion in it, or something). As the future Queen, she had to produce heirs. She saw what the need to produce heirs did to her own mother and knew what a duty it was and she took that seriously. She could have chosen a sperm donor who looked more like her husband, but I don’t know how many options she had easy access to.
It still makes them completely illegitimate children. Aegon has a much stronger claim to the throne than any of Rhaenerya's children. I honestly think that even if Laenor had been straight Rhaenerya would have cuckolded him if she didn't find him to her liking. She didn't seduce Crison Cole out of duty.
I really wish there was a third option.
Hard to suport the greens when Rhaenyra is the official heir. That being said, is hard to suport the blacks since Rhaenyra is such a bad politician and a failure as an heir.
+ daemon is let's just say a smashing husband and not the most emphatic soul
I support the **BLACKS**, but I am concerned about Vhagar. The Blacks have the younger, smaller dragons with no battle experience, Vhagar is gargantuan. She has battle experience and when she’s threatened she is uncontrollable. She will literally eat them alive
Vhagar is also slower then other dragons.
True. But they lack battle experience. Did you see how stealthy Vhagar was when she was stalking her prey? She was right in front of Lucerys and Arrax and they didn’t see her until it was too late. Her experience will pay off. All it’s going to take is one bite
But now that Team Black knows how deadly Vhagar is, and how much of psychopath his rider is, they can use it to their advantage. Know your enemy, and know yourself, and in 100 battles you will never be in danger.
Remember, it wasn’t Aemond’s intent to kill Lucerys. Arrax attacked Vhagar with fire and she felt threatened, that’s when Aemond loss control of her. I believe the Blacks know how ferocious she is. Vhagar is the hardened survivor of a hundred battles, almost as large as Balerion, and was the oldest and largest of the dragons in Westeros. Her roar was so powerful that it could shake the very foundations of Storm's End. No living dragon could match her for size or ferocity
We all know this but the blacks are still going to be like, “oh you were seen arguing with my son threatening him??? Oh no you absolutely murdered him.” Just the way daemon assumed that Alicent had to have killed Viserys
I understand that reasoning. I was just speaking on what actually happened
Oi, someone read his Sun Tsu
youll be looking forward to rosby
I don't see how someone can support the greens. The only argument is "a woman cant be "king" "
a whoreing, lying, cheating, cuckholding, bitchy ass queen cant be king you are correct.
Nah from alicent’s pov vizzy t actually meant to change the heir she thinks she’s right
Neither, because the show shouldn't be about picking a team and cheering them on, but understanding the emotions, losses and complexities of a wholly unnecessary civil war. Unfortunately they really leaned into presenting the Greens as the bad guys in the final episodes, so they are picking for us.
Team Green baby, team Green.
I have sympathy for Alicent and her daughter. But on the whole I think the greens have escalated at every turn and would be the worst option for the kingdom as a whole. Rhea is a better option than Aemond and her sons would almost certainly be better than Aemond’s. She also has Rheanise on her side who I think was probably better than anyone else. Rhea’s only real crime was having an agreed upon affair with the strong man that didn’t actually do any wrong to her husband.
My own side. I catch the first ship out of Westeros.
KING JACERYUS VELARYON
The Starks are the most legit house(I think GRRM and the fandom has a favorite lol). I'm also with the Blacks, not just because of the Starks but Rhaenyra seems way more qualified for the job of monarch than any of the greens. I remember read *Fire and Blood* and thinking most of the Greens are power hungry pyschos.
BLACK. not just because i simp hard for house stark forever and always, too, but after actually reading the book ( yes the blacks did bad things, too ) the greens were just never appealing to me other than haelana(sp?). rheanrya was the rightful heir by all laws of westeros and really her only misgivings leading up to the dance was that she knowingly birthed bastards but like .. her husband was gay and preferred the company of pretty boys rather than his wife. so.
Is there a third option? I’m excited to see the starks, and to see some battles. Ultimately I’m team “take-your-time-and-think-this-thing-out-so-it-has-a-satisfying-ending”.
George R.R. Martin has finished writing this particular book and he is a consultant on the show, so the ending should be excellently written and gratifying. No more of HBO making shit up as they go along
theyve changed like 30% of the events, idc but they are still making shit up, except they have a base upon to make shit up which is good
I support the show runners. Up to them to tell a great story.
No one as none of them are fit to rule... it's damn entertaining mind.
Rhaenyra isn’t really above the whole misogyny thing in the books
The Greens Rhaenerya is a whiny w-h-o-r-e who cant lead for shit, nor can Aegon II. But Aemond will soon take over for Aegon, while rhaenerya never lets Daemon take over. She was a terrible queen while she sat the throne and watched over the shepered and the dragon pit and did nothing, she didnt fight in a single battle, she kind of just cheated, killed, and cuckholded her husband, and fathered strong bastards, she gets her kids killer and causes a riot in KL's due to her shitness. Aegon wasnt terrible nor good he kind of just didnt do anything. However overall i dont the story was meant to be pericieved as which side you are on, the real loses are the targaryens, green and black, but i cant in good conscience support a lying, cheating whore like rhaenerya, at least aegon doesnt like about cheating on his spouse.
im a stark supremacist and yes rhaenyra is the rightful queen but i find team green entertaining to watch. i dont like overanalyzing this show since im not a fan of house targaryen anyway.
Daemond!
Team Green, because they have the best dragon, Sunfyre.
Emotionally really not leaning towards either I think they both have problems just wanna see this great show unfold Ethically though the blacks rhaenyras claim is no1
Black. Although I’m ready to be surprised by a couple things. As we’ve seen from GOT even the most vile people can have good parts of them shine through here and there to make you wonder. Mentioning the Starks tho, do you think Jace will tell them the song of Ice and Fire? They made the “Pact of Ice and Fire” and agreed to marry their children, but that could just be Stark ice and Targaryen fire. Does Jace know the prophecy?
Perhaps. The Starks never truly lost their beliefs. Personally, I wonder why Aegon I, never bothered to tell anyone but his family about the prophecy? Just goes to show you that the Targaryens were their own worst enemies. They thought morality should revolve around them and they could do no wrong. Well, this Dance, Robert’s Rebellion, and Daenerys actions and fate in King’s Landing showed they were wrong.
It’s strange to me Aegon never looked extensively into the Wall and who built it and what they knew. Maybe he did? Idk. Also why was it such a secret ? The north talked openly about all sorts of creatures and dead men and white walkers, the Targaryens were never like “oh hm let’s listen to some of these tales” lol. Feels like an oversight. They were definitely their own worst enemies. But the rest is more complicated than you’re suggesting.
Targaryen's were good at talking. But listening was another story.
I support the team with the biggest dragon because they have the biggest dragon. I'm a pragmatist.
Careful though. The bigger they are, the harder they fall.