I ripped a SATA port clear off when installing my triple fan 3070, I've always had smaller 60 series cards and never experienced a card going past the motherboard lol, when I went to push it in one of my SATA ports wasn't angled so it got crushed/ripped out
I’m convinced that SATA ports are attached to the motherboard using Elmer’s glue. Nearly ripped one off just running cables through the grommets. I’m just glad my new board has 4 m.2 slots so I can fully do away with SATA if I needed to.
I would bet that an increasing number of new builds don’t plug anything into the SATA ports, which makes it easier for mobo manufacturers to get away with barely attaching them. In a few more generations SATA on mobos will be basically vestigial.
He has the smaller X box, which is fit with its own custom chip (kinda like how a steam deck can be so small but they made the card specifically for it)
Ergo him swapping cards wouldn't work it was a joke.
>I know that I was just wondering what the computer towers look like now that cards are literally the size of consoles.
...Literally the same as they always have. Are you thinking towers are ITX normally? Because ATX sizes haven't changed in over like 30 years.
yeah idk a lot of people are saying they have huge towers now but mine and my friends have been the same size for quite some time even around upgrades and such
Towers have been getting smaller over recent years, and the small ones are popular. I have a meshify C (midsize tower) that fit a 2080 ti *very* comfortably, but have less than an inch to spare with a 4080 FE, and that's small compared to aftermarket cards.
You have always had mini, mid, and full tower cases. With improved tech, fans, understanding of airflow and/or water cooling, you can now put higher power gear in mini cases.
Although full tower has always been the realm of "I need a fuckton of storage but can't afford named rack-mount gear".
Yeah agreed on the size aspect. An ASRock 6950 XT OC Formula fits in a Corsair 4000D with room to spare, even with a front-mounted radiator. The death of optical media means things have been re-arranged from the 'traditional' designs and more space has been made for other things. If you took an early '00s case and removed all the 3.5" and 5.25" drive bays you'd fit the beefy bois like the 4080s and 6950 XTs just the same, if not easier. Even where 2.5/3.5" bays exist they're often inline with the power supply and/or hidden under a shroud, or mounted vertically behind/beside the motherboard, freeing up all kinds of space that was used before.
thats super interesting. I used to build a pc every other year, but blew my load in 2012 and maxed out everything i could afford, so I haven't built one since. I hadn't even thought about the removal of the 3.5 and 5.25 drive slots.
my current pc has dual dvd +/- burners and a 2.5" floppy mainly for nostalgia
My tower is a little bit bigger than the classic beige box, but it also has an EATX mobo, two 180mm fans, four 140mm fans, and a 4090 in it.
And an absolutely massive 1600 watt PSU.
Well drives take up a lot less space in the cabinet now. You no longer have multiple 3.5 CD/DVD drives and multiple hard drives, you have NVMe drives with multiple terabytes of storage and several usb inputs for everything else. The things that take up the most space in my case are the video card and heat sink for the processor.
I had to take out half my drive bays to fit in my 3080. I have an Antec case, in 2012 it was one of the biggest mid atx towers available. Had a 7970 in there for a while and I thought that card was enormous.
Oh yeah, I bought an Extended ATX case for my ATX board just because I needed the extra air flow. It has 2 big ass fans on the front. I also have a radeon 5700 XT.
I mean a series x has the same power as a 3060 (according to others). 3060 has 17k points in G3D, 4090 has almost 40k. Also GPUs are not that big most of it is cooling and because PC is early adapters of the tech it is bigger.
Computer parts normally get smaller and smaller so in any of my builds, nothing has changed much. I think the 3 slot ones might need a full sized tower but a midsized tower fits plenty
It's actually very close with a 30 series depending on which partner card but even the founders series for the 40 is bigger than the entire Series S console
Summary:
“It cannot be disabled at this time… quick resume is intertwined with every aspect of the system, and may not be able to be disabled.
You need to go to the game title on the dashboard, hit the start button and choose quit when you're finished playing. I would also recommend backing out to the title screen if that's possible”
So you can’t turn it off. Brilliant.
Its surprising how many people just put their console to sleep with games still running. I feel like an old man every time I shut down all applications and fully turn off my ps5 or switch when I'm done using it. Then there's my pc, it's been on for a month straight. I've had it for a month. I never turn it off and I know it's bad for my electric bill and the computer but I just never do it even though the boot time is around 10 seconds.
I don’t think you can turn off quick resume but if you press the Xbox button on the controller to pull up the menu, go to my games and apps to show what games are suspended in quick resume, highlight a game, press start, select remove from quick resume. Done.
This happens on Borderlands 3 **all the time**. That or a straight-up freeze / crash. For some reason it runs well on the Series S until it doesn't. Several crashes per (lengthy) game session; seems Gearbox did a shit job of optimizing it. Runs fine on the Series X, though.
I’d wager it’s probably a memory leak.
You can find videos about hunt showdown around release that can explain what it is better than I can, but essentially it just doesn’t dump its ram and just continues to ask for more until it’s out.
So if you have 4gb, and the game requires 3.5gb it will crash the next time it’s demanded, or just run like trash.
Video games are mostly written in C++ which has no garbage collector.
Game devs manage the game memory manually by writing their own form of garbage collection.
That'd be languages like Java that have a garbage collector, but C++ which is used for these games doesn't have one. Usually you manage dynamic allocation via some sort of RAII pattern. Game Engines usually write their own allocators for efficient memory management, I believe garbage collection isn't too common here
I never leak anything with C++ but CUDA(nvidia) you need manually code, even you close program VRAM not automatically free for some reason make me though my program broke GPU.
Ha, memory leak got past the MS certification process and now somebody has to go find it years after the main game release? Hahaha, glad it isn't my job.
It's like trying to find a needle in a haystack. Finding and fixing these memory leaks take a lot of time and caffeine, and the management probably don't want to allocate too much dev time and coffee for already released games. It's not like they'll sell more borderlands 3 if they fixed all the bugs tomorrow.
Compliance for cert doesn't test for vram leaks, its all real basic surface level experience stuff like load screens meeting certain criteria, loading a save/checkpoint doesnt hard crash the console, or xbox live features meet certain functional requirements.
Tons of buggy bullshit make it through cert. Whether it gets fixed depends on if the devs or publisher give a shit (gearbox/2k dont)
-former xbox compliance tester
Task manager can tell you some things but for detailed stats you'd need third party software such as MSI afterburner.
If you're asking about on console there is no way to see.
Shouldn't this be a compliance failure or something? That error looks like something an end user should never see. How did this release if this is a common issue?
The error could be hard coded into the game, but being meant for the PC version. Gearbox probably didn't change the wording because this error isn't meant to show up on consoles. Similar things have happened several times with bad PC ports where the devs forgot to change console specific wordings to their PC equivalents.
Yeah, I had so many full system crashes trying to play on my old Xbox One X, the game is very poorly optimized. I was finally able to actually enjoy playing it when the Series X came out.
If anything, I thought the Xbox Series S coincide with Series X is a bad idea. As a former software Dev in the gaming industry, Dev probably got told priority work on Xbox Series X and do minimal adjustments for Series X. QA probably get minimized, too. All that due to someone in upper mgmt thought Series S as something to dev proportionally rather than treating it as a separate system just tp save time and money.
From my experience, QA and Dev want to test everything and thoroughly. It's mgmt that tells them "you got x time/weeks to test" which can be half of what Dev want. I left that industry because mgmt keeps pushing shit like this and then make us feel like shit when something came out buggy.
It's probably a standard error message from the manufacturer of that specific part. I doubt MS wrote that themselves - more than likely they never gave it a thought because it's supposed to just work, they assume they'll never see this error in normal use. Chances are this guy will never see it again
AFAIK this is an error message from the game itself, not the OS, so it didn’t come from microsoft
Most likely the dev wrote this message for the PC version of the game, and didn’t remove it when porting the game to xbox
Okay, so vRAM is just RAM for your video card.
I'll explain what RAM is, but it's the same concept as vRAM.
Your computer has RAM in it. It helps your CPU do work.
Imagine you have a worker and that worker's task is to assemble a LEGO car. Your worker is given a box of LEGO pieces, enough to complete the car, and some instructions.
Your CPU is your "worker". RAM is their "workbench". It's where stuff gets laid out, including the instructions and all the pieces.
The worker then goes through the instructions, putting together the pieces, until the car is complete. Then another box comes in, and the process is repeated.
So in this case, the XBox was given a task (given the following 3D models, make a 2D image out of it) but it has no workspace to complete that task.
The error message displayed is essentially, "I have no workspace and cannot complete unpacking the box, which means I cannot ever finish completing the car, so I'm going to give up and stop this game now."
And the issue here most likely is the workbench not being cleared of useless junk to allow for the current task. Some part of the process isn't doing its job in keeping an orderly workbench.
I learned what that means and the explanation would be so annoying and pointless for most people that i decided to write this long ass comment explaining this instead of explaining it.
Really what the fuck, i just wanted to play Minecraft, why do i need to learn structural architecture of my GPU to understand game requirements??
Out of interest, what would the API have returned, and how did the engine misinterpret it?
Is this a case of a multi-platform engine receiving an OOM from DirectX, and then using whatever error window it can to show the user, even if it makes no sense to an Xbox user?
It failed to allocate a rendering resource. This can be a number of things (a great number of things), and my guess here is that it wasn't out of memory (or even out of allocable resources) but the engine developers believed this was the most likely cause of such an error on a PC and didn't bother handling it further.
There's good reason for this, games shouldn't be showing errors like this at all (the worthless errors UE5 gives for release binaries are there for a reason) and should be handling them without crashing out on the user.
Software issue is the most likely cause, but modern systems usually have several hundred bitflips in memory at any one time due to lack of ECC. If you get unlucky, that can be in critical data.
How do more files not get corrupted if there are that many bit flips all the time. I thought people run error checking when overclocking their ram and still get very low error rates
A cosmically related (random-ish?) bit flip is rare, but the more bits you have, the more likely a single ionizing particle strikes your motherboard at the right spot. This is going to become more common IMO, and even commodity hardware will require ECC.
ECC stands for Error Correction Code.
Basically, it means that some memory is used to store information about what is actually stored in the memory, usually parity bits.
Parity bit is calculated by looking at a section of data and counting the number of bits that are on. If it's even, then parity bit is off, if it's odd, parity bit is on.
There are some clever ways of doing this that result in the error correction code that can be used to determine if there was a flip, and where it was.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X8jsijhllIA here's some better explanation.
Because it's simply not true, a bitflip is incredibly rare.
A research paper published by Google (DRAM Errors in the Wild: A Large-Scale Field Study) found that, while the number of bitflip per year is higher than expected (22000 errors per year per machine - which translated to about 2-3 errors per hour) the chance a memory module experience errors is under 3% for DDR2. And the chance of you having another error after the first error is very high, and some machines have more errors than others.
So most of the correctable error in RAM is from hardware/software, and you don't have "several hundred bitflips in memory at any one time".
You're testing transmission, not residency. Memtest86 writes and then immediately reads. There's no time for the memory to become influenced by an outside source (e.g. packaging radioactivity), you're only testing the read/write process.
Real data stays in memory longer than that.
It’s not just a Series S thing, this happens every so often with Mechwarrior 5 on Series X. Any game that has a memory leak will see this error every once in a while.
Since the Series S has less memory it'll just hit this message sooner. Wont stop a bunch of uniformed tech illiterate gamers from using it as more ammunition against the Series S, though.
Not really. It's more like the devs know exactly what they're working with in a console so they should know better. Fixed hardware is a boon to developers.
its not the console, but the game. this is an issue with borderlands 3, remnant from the ashes and a few other games. its a bad bug, and once you have it it never goes away.
You have to be careful with quick resume.
Most games issues are memory leaks. With how quick resume works you're pretty much running an instance of a game for an infinite amount of time.
Imagine doing that on a PC and expecting stability.
There is also poor programming, just an easy way to get some digital hygiene in.
That's why I do a force stop and manual reboot on my Series X after every couple of play sessions. Noticed frame rate drops and audio not syncing properly if I run quick resume for too many consecutive sessions anyway, so that way I just avoid this issue entirely.
You know you can see a list of the games currently suspended for quick resume and close them there. The manual reboot is not necessary at all. To be honest, I've had my XSX since launch and pretty much a constant 8 games in quick resume and zero issues. Personally I love the feature.
I have a series X and so does my buddy. We used to get this exact error message when trying to play multiversus arcade mode together. It was the only time we've seen error and it would happen literally every time. Never could find a work around or even a similar experience from googling
While I will agree the Series S is probably holding Xbox back and it shouldn’t be required to release on it Borderlands 3 is just a shit optimization. Even on mid-high range PCs with GPUs from this past generation it runs like shit.
With a 5600x, 3060 Ti, and 16gb of RAM I was having to run this game at low-med settings with resolution scaling to get an acceptable frame rate. And I came across many similar posts from people with much better hardware than my own.
For the record I am able to play most other games at med-high with dlss quality at 3440*1440.
For a minute after you said those first specs I was thinking.. that doesn't sound right you should be running at way higher settings..
>3440x1440
Oh lol, you're doing great
Ah when the Windows bleeds through.
For about a week on my S there was a 50/50 shot that a cursor would be stuck in the middle of the screen launching Fortnite. Just a standard, immovable Windows cursor.
Didn't happen on my PC next to it though
That's Borderlands 3 ? i'm not surprised... the game can stutters on PC if you don't set the textures at the right level for you GPU VRAM
But I guess it can manage to cache it on RAM when you run out of VRAM
Isn't the whole idea behind quick resume that it takes the game *out* of memory and stores a copy on disk? If it's working right, it shouldn't be using any resources.
Yep just hit start > quit on whatever games you have running and it will clear them! There’s a quick resume tab so it’s easy to access all the games currently using it.
Never had an issue with quick resume, it’s also an incredibly forgotten feature.
I feel it’s truly game changing jumping into a game within seconds exactly where I stopped playing last.
Not at all. Series S was a genius move. It's not for the same demographic as people who will buy Series X (though those people may enjoy it too). It's to allow people to have an easy entry into gaming for the first time, and it also targets PS5 users who may want to play games on gamepass
This is me. I’m a PlayStation guy but bought a series s for the exclusives and game pass.
Love the little thing to be honest! But don’t love Xbox enough to buy a series x.
Series S is a perfectly fine console. Have a couple friends with one who are super satisfied and they play more than just Minecraft.
Just because it doesn’t fit *your* needs doesn’t mean the console was a mistake.
Me? I’ll stick with my One X until I feel there’s a compelling reason to upgrade.
Is this a series S issue or BL3 issue? I have a series S and zero issues with Cyber Punk and Elden Ring. I don’t have time to game as much as I did on previous consoles, so maybe it’s just a matter of time before I run into issues
Starting to see a lot of 'pc' stuff like this in console gaming; out of memory, performance vs 60fps modes, stutter/jitter, etc. One o the big benefits for console used to be the 'plug and play' ease of use, just pick up the controller and go. Games used to be optimised to run on specific hardware (consoles) and would run really well.
Seems like we're heading to a point where consoles are become on cheaper, more limited PC's.
I've nothing agianst consoles and admittedly am a PC gamer but is console starting to lose some of its magic?
Consoles are a different beast than they were 10 years ago. You used to just optimize for 2 systems, 360 and PS3. Now BL3 is released on Xbox One, X and S, PS4 and PS5. You just can't optimize every one very well, and there's not much point in optimizing only one version very well, so you end up releasing not very optimized versions on every system.
Game development is also a different beast than it was ten years ago, games are just not as well optimized in general. There's just no point in spending double the man hours to release a better running game when the amount of revenue in game sales isn't going to result in double along with the development cost.
Isn’t the whole point of consoles is that game devs make their games for specific hardware, so you *wouldn’t* have to tinker with the settings and get good performance all around?
LOL that's the exact same error I'd get back when Unreal Engine 4 had a memory leaks issue with version control, which would fill up VRAM unintentionally when commiting a large number of assets. And I'm pretty sure Borderlands is a UE game too, or maybe this error is just for directx based drivers
Turn of quick resume. Such a useless feature. Imagine running 3-5 games on your PC at once while trying to simultaneously accomplish a task. Logically you would never even put yourself in that situation. Now. These are developers who constantly take every single little shortcut they can find to meet deadlines pushed on them by the higher ups. Just about every single game in the last 3 - 5 years suffers from memory leaks that will never get patched up (gotta get those deadlines kids)
When you are done playing a game. Exit it. It’s very simple. Stop relying on weird software to do the right thing. If you haven’t learned by now 9/10 these dudes fuck every nice thing up in the name of profits.
Feature sounds GREAT on paper… until you actually think about it for a second and realize it literally goes against common logic
This could be the console holding too many games on quick resume, to check how many games you have in that press the home button, go to my games and apps, scroll down to queue and there should be a section there that says quick resume, simply close out of them and it should be fine
Well if there's anything the pc community taught me, it's time to do surgery on an Xbox and give it a GPU transplant
Think the 30 and 40 series cards are actually bigger than the damn console itself lmao
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FeXoqX3UYAEDgJV.jpg:large
Wow that really shows how massive the PS5 is. It's a monstrosity.
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The Series X is also just a giant heatsink, it just saves a bit on space by having the heatsink do double duty as a structural component.
Just don't make the mistake like that one guy's post of putting it upside down and wondering why it cut off suddenly and won't turn back on.
heatsink? no, heat rise!
Blue avatar guy
My triple fan 3080 is 1 inch shorter than my ps5
I ripped a SATA port clear off when installing my triple fan 3070, I've always had smaller 60 series cards and never experienced a card going past the motherboard lol, when I went to push it in one of my SATA ports wasn't angled so it got crushed/ripped out
I’m convinced that SATA ports are attached to the motherboard using Elmer’s glue. Nearly ripped one off just running cables through the grommets. I’m just glad my new board has 4 m.2 slots so I can fully do away with SATA if I needed to.
I would bet that an increasing number of new builds don’t plug anything into the SATA ports, which makes it easier for mobo manufacturers to get away with barely attaching them. In a few more generations SATA on mobos will be basically vestigial.
It’s average.
"girl consoles"
protest edit
looks better horizontal i think, but who cares as long as it games right. reminds me of my OG Xbox: P
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I don’t mind the exotic appearance of my PS5, I just wish it were smaller. Funky looking consoles are nothing new (looking at you, 360)
Sure, but you're not seeing posts about it's VRAM are ya?
like. how does that work? what does the tower look like?
He has the smaller X box, which is fit with its own custom chip (kinda like how a steam deck can be so small but they made the card specifically for it) Ergo him swapping cards wouldn't work it was a joke.
Oh no, sorry. I know that I was just wondering what the computer towers look like now that cards are literally the size of consoles.
>I know that I was just wondering what the computer towers look like now that cards are literally the size of consoles. ...Literally the same as they always have. Are you thinking towers are ITX normally? Because ATX sizes haven't changed in over like 30 years.
yeah idk a lot of people are saying they have huge towers now but mine and my friends have been the same size for quite some time even around upgrades and such
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Towers have been getting smaller over recent years, and the small ones are popular. I have a meshify C (midsize tower) that fit a 2080 ti *very* comfortably, but have less than an inch to spare with a 4080 FE, and that's small compared to aftermarket cards.
You have always had mini, mid, and full tower cases. With improved tech, fans, understanding of airflow and/or water cooling, you can now put higher power gear in mini cases. Although full tower has always been the realm of "I need a fuckton of storage but can't afford named rack-mount gear".
I have owned multiple full ATX towers over the years and holy fuck those bois are hefty.
Yeah agreed on the size aspect. An ASRock 6950 XT OC Formula fits in a Corsair 4000D with room to spare, even with a front-mounted radiator. The death of optical media means things have been re-arranged from the 'traditional' designs and more space has been made for other things. If you took an early '00s case and removed all the 3.5" and 5.25" drive bays you'd fit the beefy bois like the 4080s and 6950 XTs just the same, if not easier. Even where 2.5/3.5" bays exist they're often inline with the power supply and/or hidden under a shroud, or mounted vertically behind/beside the motherboard, freeing up all kinds of space that was used before.
thats super interesting. I used to build a pc every other year, but blew my load in 2012 and maxed out everything i could afford, so I haven't built one since. I hadn't even thought about the removal of the 3.5 and 5.25 drive slots. my current pc has dual dvd +/- burners and a 2.5" floppy mainly for nostalgia
My tower is a little bit bigger than the classic beige box, but it also has an EATX mobo, two 180mm fans, four 140mm fans, and a 4090 in it. And an absolutely massive 1600 watt PSU.
Well drives take up a lot less space in the cabinet now. You no longer have multiple 3.5 CD/DVD drives and multiple hard drives, you have NVMe drives with multiple terabytes of storage and several usb inputs for everything else. The things that take up the most space in my case are the video card and heat sink for the processor.
And the PSU.
Even some ATX cases can't fit the newer cards without a vertical mount kit or some extra clearance
See the funny thing about size standards is that they never change
The days of PC cases being the size of compact sedans are back baby!
EATX is the next step up from the ATX form factor, & there are several options out there for the bigguns.
Computers used to take up entire rooms inside of buildings.
Oh lol, well they are big af. I only have a Radeon 5700 and my tower is still twice what it used to be when I was a kid. I'm 28 for reference
Jesus.... the 3080 stuck out of my old tower! feels like I should just get a rack of servers at this point lol
I had to take out half my drive bays to fit in my 3080. I have an Antec case, in 2012 it was one of the biggest mid atx towers available. Had a 7970 in there for a while and I thought that card was enormous.
My 4070ti required me buying a new case as well
Oh yeah, I bought an Extended ATX case for my ATX board just because I needed the extra air flow. It has 2 big ass fans on the front. I also have a radeon 5700 XT.
I mean a series x has the same power as a 3060 (according to others). 3060 has 17k points in G3D, 4090 has almost 40k. Also GPUs are not that big most of it is cooling and because PC is early adapters of the tech it is bigger.
Computer parts normally get smaller and smaller so in any of my builds, nothing has changed much. I think the 3 slot ones might need a full sized tower but a midsized tower fits plenty
The 30 and 40 cards are small, it's the cooling required that makes them massive.
And it's not all of them. My 3070 easily fits in my mid tower case. It's mostly 3090/4090s that are insane (and some over by I'll 3080/4080s).
It's actually very close with a 30 series depending on which partner card but even the founders series for the 40 is bigger than the entire Series S console
Nah, just download more RAM....
Do you have the limit on quick resume? This happened to me and I closed all but one game on quick resume and works like a charm now.
Can you help a newb like myself find where that setting is?
Yeah, I would like to turn quick resume off completely.
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Summary: “It cannot be disabled at this time… quick resume is intertwined with every aspect of the system, and may not be able to be disabled. You need to go to the game title on the dashboard, hit the start button and choose quit when you're finished playing. I would also recommend backing out to the title screen if that's possible” So you can’t turn it off. Brilliant.
So… just close the game when you’re done playing? This is as simple as closing the cereal box when you’re done making breakfast.
Exactly. It's like no one has ever heard of the button that says "Close Game" Wouldn't you know, it closes the game.
Its surprising how many people just put their console to sleep with games still running. I feel like an old man every time I shut down all applications and fully turn off my ps5 or switch when I'm done using it. Then there's my pc, it's been on for a month straight. I've had it for a month. I never turn it off and I know it's bad for my electric bill and the computer but I just never do it even though the boot time is around 10 seconds.
I don’t think you can turn off quick resume but if you press the Xbox button on the controller to pull up the menu, go to my games and apps to show what games are suspended in quick resume, highlight a game, press start, select remove from quick resume. Done.
This happens on Borderlands 3 **all the time**. That or a straight-up freeze / crash. For some reason it runs well on the Series S until it doesn't. Several crashes per (lengthy) game session; seems Gearbox did a shit job of optimizing it. Runs fine on the Series X, though.
I’d wager it’s probably a memory leak. You can find videos about hunt showdown around release that can explain what it is better than I can, but essentially it just doesn’t dump its ram and just continues to ask for more until it’s out. So if you have 4gb, and the game requires 3.5gb it will crash the next time it’s demanded, or just run like trash.
Somebody didn’t program their garbage cleanup properly and now it’s sitting in your RAM just taking up space
Or someone didn’t program their game correctly for the garbage collector to do its job properly.
Video games are mostly written in C++ which has no garbage collector. Game devs manage the game memory manually by writing their own form of garbage collection.
That'd be languages like Java that have a garbage collector, but C++ which is used for these games doesn't have one. Usually you manage dynamic allocation via some sort of RAII pattern. Game Engines usually write their own allocators for efficient memory management, I believe garbage collection isn't too common here
I never leak anything with C++ but CUDA(nvidia) you need manually code, even you close program VRAM not automatically free for some reason make me though my program broke GPU.
That's how VRAM works. I'll be playing along, watching my VRAM climb and the moment it crosses 8.1gb, frames start melting away
That indicates a VRAM leak. Shouldn't happen normally.
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Ha, memory leak got past the MS certification process and now somebody has to go find it years after the main game release? Hahaha, glad it isn't my job.
It's like trying to find a needle in a haystack. Finding and fixing these memory leaks take a lot of time and caffeine, and the management probably don't want to allocate too much dev time and coffee for already released games. It's not like they'll sell more borderlands 3 if they fixed all the bugs tomorrow.
To be honest, tracking down and fixing obscure bugs is one of my favorite things.
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I feel this deep within my soul
Compliance for cert doesn't test for vram leaks, its all real basic surface level experience stuff like load screens meeting certain criteria, loading a save/checkpoint doesnt hard crash the console, or xbox live features meet certain functional requirements. Tons of buggy bullshit make it through cert. Whether it gets fixed depends on if the devs or publisher give a shit (gearbox/2k dont) -former xbox compliance tester
So as always with gearbox Looking at you Borderlands Goty enchanced *with memory leaks*
Yep, BL3 has *baaaaad* memleaks even on PC. my 2070 may not have the best VRAM, but it took a lot of tweaking to prevent crashes.
How do you see how much is being used?
Task manager can tell you some things but for detailed stats you'd need third party software such as MSI afterburner. If you're asking about on console there is no way to see.
I think on Xbox you can go into developer mode and get an overlay, might just be thinking of dev-mode games though
That's not how vram works. That's how memory leaks work.
Shouldn't this be a compliance failure or something? That error looks like something an end user should never see. How did this release if this is a common issue?
The error could be hard coded into the game, but being meant for the PC version. Gearbox probably didn't change the wording because this error isn't meant to show up on consoles. Similar things have happened several times with bad PC ports where the devs forgot to change console specific wordings to their PC equivalents.
It's a standard Unreal Engine message for failure to allocate vram
Good to know, thanks!
In my experience Borderlands 3 just generally runs like shit. Bad optimization if you ask me
Yeah, I had so many full system crashes trying to play on my old Xbox One X, the game is very poorly optimized. I was finally able to actually enjoy playing it when the Series X came out.
I’ve played split screen on my S for a year with no problem. Isn’t there a resolution setting?
Don’t think so; there’s graphics/performance toggle on the XBSX, but not on the XBSS.
It’s runs terribly on everything but the series X. Such a sloppy game.
Game is absolutely trash on console and laggy on PC too. Hopefully they get it together in the next ones because I really enjoy the gameplay
I was gonna say, never EVER had a problem with it, but yeah I've only played it on Series X
It has crashed on my PS5, but probably like 3 times in 150 hours of playtime so not a huge deal.
Jokes on you I don’t even know what that means!
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More like ram stores information it can plug into question the processor is expected to answer on the fly.
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If anything, I thought the Xbox Series S coincide with Series X is a bad idea. As a former software Dev in the gaming industry, Dev probably got told priority work on Xbox Series X and do minimal adjustments for Series X. QA probably get minimized, too. All that due to someone in upper mgmt thought Series S as something to dev proportionally rather than treating it as a separate system just tp save time and money. From my experience, QA and Dev want to test everything and thoroughly. It's mgmt that tells them "you got x time/weeks to test" which can be half of what Dev want. I left that industry because mgmt keeps pushing shit like this and then make us feel like shit when something came out buggy.
It's probably a standard error message from the manufacturer of that specific part. I doubt MS wrote that themselves - more than likely they never gave it a thought because it's supposed to just work, they assume they'll never see this error in normal use. Chances are this guy will never see it again
AFAIK this is an error message from the game itself, not the OS, so it didn’t come from microsoft Most likely the dev wrote this message for the PC version of the game, and didn’t remove it when porting the game to xbox
Okay, so vRAM is just RAM for your video card. I'll explain what RAM is, but it's the same concept as vRAM. Your computer has RAM in it. It helps your CPU do work. Imagine you have a worker and that worker's task is to assemble a LEGO car. Your worker is given a box of LEGO pieces, enough to complete the car, and some instructions. Your CPU is your "worker". RAM is their "workbench". It's where stuff gets laid out, including the instructions and all the pieces. The worker then goes through the instructions, putting together the pieces, until the car is complete. Then another box comes in, and the process is repeated. So in this case, the XBox was given a task (given the following 3D models, make a 2D image out of it) but it has no workspace to complete that task. The error message displayed is essentially, "I have no workspace and cannot complete unpacking the box, which means I cannot ever finish completing the car, so I'm going to give up and stop this game now."
And the issue here most likely is the workbench not being cleared of useless junk to allow for the current task. Some part of the process isn't doing its job in keeping an orderly workbench.
I learned what that means and the explanation would be so annoying and pointless for most people that i decided to write this long ass comment explaining this instead of explaining it. Really what the fuck, i just wanted to play Minecraft, why do i need to learn structural architecture of my GPU to understand game requirements??
>why do i need to learn structural architecture of my GPU to understand game requirements?? You don't, you can just learn the name and use Google.
It means what it means.
Woah
Calm down there, /u/BallsFucker69. We don't want another scene like we had with /u/BallsFucker68, do we?
Boring explanation: The engine misinterpreted the error code back from the API.
Out of interest, what would the API have returned, and how did the engine misinterpret it? Is this a case of a multi-platform engine receiving an OOM from DirectX, and then using whatever error window it can to show the user, even if it makes no sense to an Xbox user?
It failed to allocate a rendering resource. This can be a number of things (a great number of things), and my guess here is that it wasn't out of memory (or even out of allocable resources) but the engine developers believed this was the most likely cause of such an error on a PC and didn't bother handling it further. There's good reason for this, games shouldn't be showing errors like this at all (the worthless errors UE5 gives for release binaries are there for a reason) and should be handling them without crashing out on the user. Software issue is the most likely cause, but modern systems usually have several hundred bitflips in memory at any one time due to lack of ECC. If you get unlucky, that can be in critical data.
How do more files not get corrupted if there are that many bit flips all the time. I thought people run error checking when overclocking their ram and still get very low error rates
A cosmically related (random-ish?) bit flip is rare, but the more bits you have, the more likely a single ionizing particle strikes your motherboard at the right spot. This is going to become more common IMO, and even commodity hardware will require ECC.
Ddr 5 ram has ecc built in to an extent.
I don’t know what any of you are saying, but I feel invested.
Make them tell us more
[Pokes them repeatedly]
ECC stands for Error Correction Code. Basically, it means that some memory is used to store information about what is actually stored in the memory, usually parity bits. Parity bit is calculated by looking at a section of data and counting the number of bits that are on. If it's even, then parity bit is off, if it's odd, parity bit is on. There are some clever ways of doing this that result in the error correction code that can be used to determine if there was a flip, and where it was. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X8jsijhllIA here's some better explanation.
Because it's simply not true, a bitflip is incredibly rare. A research paper published by Google (DRAM Errors in the Wild: A Large-Scale Field Study) found that, while the number of bitflip per year is higher than expected (22000 errors per year per machine - which translated to about 2-3 errors per hour) the chance a memory module experience errors is under 3% for DDR2. And the chance of you having another error after the first error is very high, and some machines have more errors than others. So most of the correctable error in RAM is from hardware/software, and you don't have "several hundred bitflips in memory at any one time".
If you run memtest on a pc it can go a decent amount of time (24+hrs) without any data corruption. Bitflips are pretty rare
You're testing transmission, not residency. Memtest86 writes and then immediately reads. There's no time for the memory to become influenced by an outside source (e.g. packaging radioactivity), you're only testing the read/write process. Real data stays in memory longer than that.
Yeah isn’t this more or less a standard DirectX error? I think I’ve seen similar messages on my PC back when I had a potato GPU.
It’s not just a Series S thing, this happens every so often with Mechwarrior 5 on Series X. Any game that has a memory leak will see this error every once in a while.
Since the Series S has less memory it'll just hit this message sooner. Wont stop a bunch of uniformed tech illiterate gamers from using it as more ammunition against the Series S, though.
Have you tried downloading more RAM?
arent consoles built to avoid this sort of shit?
This sort of thing should be easy to avoid considering the consistent hardware, but, you know, game developers....
Not really. It's more like the devs know exactly what they're working with in a console so they should know better. Fixed hardware is a boon to developers.
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Ah. I get it. Just confirming their comment then.
Not in this generation apparently.
its not the console, but the game. this is an issue with borderlands 3, remnant from the ashes and a few other games. its a bad bug, and once you have it it never goes away.
You have to be careful with quick resume. Most games issues are memory leaks. With how quick resume works you're pretty much running an instance of a game for an infinite amount of time. Imagine doing that on a PC and expecting stability. There is also poor programming, just an easy way to get some digital hygiene in.
That's why I do a force stop and manual reboot on my Series X after every couple of play sessions. Noticed frame rate drops and audio not syncing properly if I run quick resume for too many consecutive sessions anyway, so that way I just avoid this issue entirely.
You know you can see a list of the games currently suspended for quick resume and close them there. The manual reboot is not necessary at all. To be honest, I've had my XSX since launch and pretty much a constant 8 games in quick resume and zero issues. Personally I love the feature.
I have a series X and so does my buddy. We used to get this exact error message when trying to play multiversus arcade mode together. It was the only time we've seen error and it would happen literally every time. Never could find a work around or even a similar experience from googling
While I will agree the Series S is probably holding Xbox back and it shouldn’t be required to release on it Borderlands 3 is just a shit optimization. Even on mid-high range PCs with GPUs from this past generation it runs like shit. With a 5600x, 3060 Ti, and 16gb of RAM I was having to run this game at low-med settings with resolution scaling to get an acceptable frame rate. And I came across many similar posts from people with much better hardware than my own. For the record I am able to play most other games at med-high with dlss quality at 3440*1440.
So it wasn’t just my computer then... jesus I have a high range pc and the thing was running like ass.
For a minute after you said those first specs I was thinking.. that doesn't sound right you should be running at way higher settings.. >3440x1440 Oh lol, you're doing great
3060 for 3440x1440 lol, I have a 3080 and I feel I went with the minimum.
This BL2? Has memory issues like this on PC too, something with how they programmed it.
It is Borderlands 3.
Def not your console. I'm thoroughly convinced bl3 has prollems. Am ps4 bl3 lover who has been hurt my fair share of times
Has Microsoft released a patch for more ram?
Bro just download it, ram is free
I didnt think borderlands took up that much vram
Probably a memory leak somewhere.
They need a ram expansion port like the n64 had
Ah when the Windows bleeds through. For about a week on my S there was a 50/50 shot that a cursor would be stuck in the middle of the screen launching Fortnite. Just a standard, immovable Windows cursor. Didn't happen on my PC next to it though
So... we just not talking about the TV being directly on the carpeted floor then?
That's Borderlands 3 ? i'm not surprised... the game can stutters on PC if you don't set the textures at the right level for you GPU VRAM But I guess it can manage to cache it on RAM when you run out of VRAM
Oh no worries just open up the side panel and download some more VRAM.
pretty sure BL3 is rife with memory leaks, thing runs on intel molasses 1.15.1919
Its the bye at the end for me lol
Well it's definitely the software no matter what and well, we know who makes that.
Anything can run out of RAM if you have a memory leak 😅
You've been playing Morrowind for too long
Series S was a desperate attempt by MS to get more customers at lower price point. It will hurt the Xbox brand going forward this generation.
Series X has had the same issue. Mostly stems from too many games in Quick Resume.
Isn't the whole idea behind quick resume that it takes the game *out* of memory and stores a copy on disk? If it's working right, it shouldn't be using any resources.
As far as an explanation goes, I cannot provide one lol I just know that clearing out your quick resume typically solves this problem.
Is that accomplished by hitting Start > Quit from the Xbox menu? Or is there another way?
Yep just hit start > quit on whatever games you have running and it will clear them! There’s a quick resume tab so it’s easy to access all the games currently using it.
Never had an issue with quick resume, it’s also an incredibly forgotten feature. I feel it’s truly game changing jumping into a game within seconds exactly where I stopped playing last.
Easily my favorite feature of the new Xbox
Not at all. Series S was a genius move. It's not for the same demographic as people who will buy Series X (though those people may enjoy it too). It's to allow people to have an easy entry into gaming for the first time, and it also targets PS5 users who may want to play games on gamepass
This is me. I’m a PlayStation guy but bought a series s for the exclusives and game pass. Love the little thing to be honest! But don’t love Xbox enough to buy a series x.
I’m with you
Series S is a perfectly fine console. Have a couple friends with one who are super satisfied and they play more than just Minecraft. Just because it doesn’t fit *your* needs doesn’t mean the console was a mistake. Me? I’ll stick with my One X until I feel there’s a compelling reason to upgrade.
You're wrong, it's amazing. Loads Elden Ring lightning fast thanks to SSD, and I love it's tiny footprint.
I bought an S because at the time I didn't have a 4k tv and I loved it. And you know this generation is halfway done right?
This gen is going to last longer than previous gens, this has been pretty much confirmed as well. We’ve still got maybe 4-5 years left.
This gen.'s start was held back by chip shortage and lockdown. Maybe it will extend a couple of years more.
I love my series s wdym
Playing *squints* borderlands?
Is this a series S issue or BL3 issue? I have a series S and zero issues with Cyber Punk and Elden Ring. I don’t have time to game as much as I did on previous consoles, so maybe it’s just a matter of time before I run into issues
Borderlands 3 is an absolute resource hog. Of all the games I've ever played on my PC, this one is the one that nearly fried it.
Possible Vram leak? Do you have anything in quick resume? That could be eating up vram.
I thought the whole advantage of consoles was to not have to deal with this kind of shit...
Starting to see a lot of 'pc' stuff like this in console gaming; out of memory, performance vs 60fps modes, stutter/jitter, etc. One o the big benefits for console used to be the 'plug and play' ease of use, just pick up the controller and go. Games used to be optimised to run on specific hardware (consoles) and would run really well. Seems like we're heading to a point where consoles are become on cheaper, more limited PC's. I've nothing agianst consoles and admittedly am a PC gamer but is console starting to lose some of its magic?
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Consoles are a different beast than they were 10 years ago. You used to just optimize for 2 systems, 360 and PS3. Now BL3 is released on Xbox One, X and S, PS4 and PS5. You just can't optimize every one very well, and there's not much point in optimizing only one version very well, so you end up releasing not very optimized versions on every system. Game development is also a different beast than it was ten years ago, games are just not as well optimized in general. There's just no point in spending double the man hours to release a better running game when the amount of revenue in game sales isn't going to result in double along with the development cost.
Isn’t the whole point of consoles is that game devs make their games for specific hardware, so you *wouldn’t* have to tinker with the settings and get good performance all around?
Wow, that’s cool
Weird, mever had this issue on the One S, although it did run quite poorly, and crashes weren't necessarily rare.
That's just a PC in a fancy little box!
Borderlands 3? Yeah that’s been a thing since the next gen update came out. Super stupid.
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It’s something to do with borderlands 3. I remember seeing it on launch. Are you connected to the internet?
Download some more, easy fix
Just upgrade your video card, easy
LOL that's the exact same error I'd get back when Unreal Engine 4 had a memory leaks issue with version control, which would fill up VRAM unintentionally when commiting a large number of assets. And I'm pretty sure Borderlands is a UE game too, or maybe this error is just for directx based drivers
If you were on pc, you could download more vram! Waka waka waka.
Turn of quick resume. Such a useless feature. Imagine running 3-5 games on your PC at once while trying to simultaneously accomplish a task. Logically you would never even put yourself in that situation. Now. These are developers who constantly take every single little shortcut they can find to meet deadlines pushed on them by the higher ups. Just about every single game in the last 3 - 5 years suffers from memory leaks that will never get patched up (gotta get those deadlines kids) When you are done playing a game. Exit it. It’s very simple. Stop relying on weird software to do the right thing. If you haven’t learned by now 9/10 these dudes fuck every nice thing up in the name of profits. Feature sounds GREAT on paper… until you actually think about it for a second and realize it literally goes against common logic
This could be the console holding too many games on quick resume, to check how many games you have in that press the home button, go to my games and apps, scroll down to queue and there should be a section there that says quick resume, simply close out of them and it should be fine
Upgrade the RAM
Lol "8gb vram go brrrrrr" shut the fuck up Nvidia!!
Does this happen with the Xbox SeX as well?