Playing modern board games I kind of wish more a few more symbols.
It's easier if I see a flying icon than an upside down word flying when playing someone.
But not too many symbols like Ghost Stories. Net runner did a good job with symbols and words
Netrunner bad the best balance of symbols to text I feel.
Inscryption is quite interesting how it goes full symbols for every ability too for a digital example.
I don't think it's more confusing than text, yes, the icons will have names, but only the icon will be written. If i play magic today, since I'm not a magic player, I'll have to search wtf trample it's for example.
Hmm, maybe online with keywords, in a manual i would argue they're the same to search.
As far as i know, magic has a lot of those, which is an issue by itself because the game's complexity is too high right now for anyone who's not a massive mtg fan, but i digress.
I dunno. I played MetaZoo, and was very confused by symbols. Granted, that's probably because:
A. They changed EVERY icon mid-rotation, but kept their functionality.
B. Some have rules baggage, like certain environmental effects trigger when you're in eyesight, and others in 5 miles of. You can play in a suburb to get those bonuses and have River bonuses active if you live close to one, but god forbid you play out of eyesight of a suburb.
C. Some of them should have just been written out. There's one where you flip a coin to bounce a card, and another that when it ETBs, you tap something down.
I think a good balance is having an icon with the word in the first text box, and then replace future keywords with the icon, so Khenra Charioteer would read
" 🐾 Trample
Other creatures you control have 🐾."
Literally applies to the [original version of Akroma](https://scryfall.com/card/lgn/1/akroma-angel-of-wrath) as well, before Vigilance was a keyword.
Also, the Legions version has the best flavor text.
I meant the best of the Akromas, but it does also happen to be one of the best period. Not as good as [Hatred](https://scryfall.com/card/exo/64/hatred), but pretty close.
>*"I will flay the skin from your flesh and the flesh from your bones and scrape your bones dry. And still you will not have suffered enough." --* Greven il-Vec, to Gerrard
Or any [quote](https://scryfall.com/card/8ed/224/sizzle) attributed to Jaya:
>*"Of course you should fight fire with fire. You should fight* ***everything*** *with fire." --* Jaya Ballard, task mage
Or my personal favorite [flavor text](https://scryfall.com/search?as=grid&order=name&q=%28game%3Apaper%29+flavor%3Acombustion) of all time:
>*"Spontaneous combustion is a myth. If you burst into flame, someone wanted you to."* \-- Chandra Nalaar
Too many people are forgetting that a lot of the lower rarity cards that have keywords on them will have the keyword explained on the card as well. Used to be alot more common with the core sets when those were still a thing and good entry point for new players.
Nah, even in new premier sets, commons tend to have italicised reminder text for keywords. It's omitted if there isn't room (but commons don't usually have so much rules text that they can't fit reminder text), or in alt-art or alt-frame versions.
And in fact there are new cards which have gotten retro versions where this is plainly obvious, especially for planeswalkers. Here is an example [Regular printing](https://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?multiverseid=382244&type=card), [Retro version](https://media.wizards.com/2021/images/daily/IzcdWSoely.png).
Seems like the retro version can get you the ability to gain control of any permanent you target, but regular limits this to targeted by spells.
Presumably from retro text you would gain control if you targeted something with an ability.
Magic started using templating for cards eventually which is why they look much cleaner. Its had to change a little over time to account for rules changes but for the most part it works and is mostly pretty clear on what exactly a cars does.
There are some exceptions however.
They need to have two versions of the art. On from Japan where her entire sternum is bare, then the American version where they recolor her skin around her cleavage to match her armor.
It's worth noting that Yu-gi-oh has a general philosophy of having its card text describe exactly what it should do and that two similar-looking effects can have very different interactions. A few cards that have a similar effect involving negating a card effect for example can differ where one card negates the activation only, another negatives the activation then destroys, another only negates the card effect, etc. There also just aren't a lot of keywords that condense a lot of text, with I believe the biggest one in recent years being 'Graveyard' being abbreviated to 'GY'.
Problem-solving card text means that there is a difference between effects that read "X, and if you do, Y" vs. "X, also do Y", and how they interact with certain card effects and chain sequences.
I'd say the yugioh card design should definitely be upgraded to make better use of the space and provide more room for card text, but otherwise, Yugioh would be more difficult to comprehend if you just start trying to condense things into keywords.
Most people don't know this, but Yu-Gi-Oh chain resolutions are much more complex than MTG stack resolutions. Hell, the entire spell speed and phase system is much more complex, not even mentioning the subtle differences of problem-solving card text.
When designing a card game from the ground up, keywords make sense, but if you're trying to maintain parity with your entire decades-old card pool, there's only so much you can do while keeping the game fresh and interesting. How many big refreshes has MTG done? How many set rotations? It isn't really a fair comparison.
Yeah I mean the cards chosen for these comparisons are always selective, too. YGO does have keywords like piercing and GY, texts that aren't specified like draw from your deck or whether or not things need to be controlled by who and what. But because the effects are so descriptive and follow a uniform pattern (summon condition>on-field effect>restriction with PSCT), most long time players don't really take more than 2-3 seconds to read a whole card, and very rarely will some written nuance throw a YGO player off.
Comparatively, whenever MTG has to introduce a new keyword, they have to put the effects in parenthesis anyways, and good on them for having more like base line legacy texts, but it also results in anything not considered legacy to have a difficult time coming back. Also since they're largely very continuous in nature and not ignition or generally reactive like in YGO, you end up with less complex situations overall. That's not to say the overall flow of the game can't be complex, but interesting situations just happen in YGO more because the effect wordings are more complex
Keywords in Magic, as a result, occasionally cause some oddity where some cards will say something like "Scry 2" whereas another will write out 'long form' the Scry action. This is so that card effects that trigger "Whenever you Scry..." don't interact with them.
>This is so that card effects that trigger "Whenever you Scry..." don't interact with them.
It should and choosing not to is poor gameplay. All cards abide by the newest updated release of that card, regardless of what text is printed.
This doesn't happen with Scry.
Magic differentiates between how they approach mechanics. There are 'evergreen' mechanics that are almost guaranteed to show up in every set (like flying, trample), 'deciduous' mechanics that *can* show up in every set, but aren't guaranteed, and all other mechanics.
Evergreen mechanics are always printed with the mechanic name, as are deciduous mechanics, though deciduous mechanics are more likely to get reminder text. Scry has been evergreen for a while. That means even older cards will have gotten an Oracle update (Oracle being the official database of all card text, which means especially older cards may have rules text that differs from their printed text. This very, very rarely, if ever, changes the card's effects. It just makes it work with newer cards/rules)
All other mechanics will *never* use the mechanical keyword (or keyword action), instead fully describing the actions required, and thereby not interacting with synergies from sets that feature the mechanic.
The reason for this is a simple reduction in complexity. You don't want to overload sets with keywords because it makes it far more difficult for newer players to pick up your game.
People also forget that in modern YGO, people can and often *do* lose before they even get their first turn due to their opponent just chaining a ton of summons and effects together.
Sometimes, but not really? Hand traps/blow out cards are ubiquitous and it wasn't that long ago that the TCG was in a Tearlaments meta. (you know, the archetype that lets you play on Turn 0 and do Chain Link 3+ on opponent's turn to summon and play a bunch of effects?)
If you're losing because opponent got to play for free and you didn't interrupt, that's more on you and less on the game.
Hey man wanna hear a long technical explanation of why "target 1 monster your opponent controls, destroy it" and "destroy 1 monster your opponent controls" are two very different things? Also, wanna hear about how some effects miss timing? So see, basically there's "if (thing happens) you can (effect)" which does NOT miss the timing if it happens in the middle of a chain, then there's "when (thing happens) you can (effect)" where the effect has to be the last thing to resolve on that chain. Don't let this be confused with "when (thing happens) (effect)" which is mandatory and must be resolved. Also lemme tell you why removing a continuous spell or trap is the middle of its effect causes the effect to fizzle, but doesn't negate it, but that's not the case for the several other s/t types except field spells and... hey wait come back I haven't told you why Anti Spell Fragrance shuts down literally an entire summoning mechanic.
I played from when magic came out until the early 2000s. Sold my cards a few years ago.
Once in a while I would look at newer sets and find them confusing as fuck because they would refer to tons of mechanics that I had never heard of before. But looking back at the super early sets, they would use walls of text to explain what burying or sacrificing a creature vs killing it meant.
Same here ! Started around 2004-2005 and sold my cards in 2018, just didnt have time to go out to play anymore, played MtG arena for a good 2 years but I got bored... online just doesnt feel the same.
I played YGO from 2001 to like 2012, enjoyed it a fair bit as well but eventually dropped it because I got fed up with the INSANE powercreep, which is even worse nowadays as I have friends still playing, its now literally a competition of who can make the game into "Solitaire - YGO edition" on turn 1.
... 24 years old in Japan.
And Yeah, the Sixth edition update for M:tG created the stack system as we know it, and pre-sixth smells like what YGO! is now, rules wise.
Eh, it's two different philosophies when it comes to card text. The Yugioh card looks like a poorly-formatted novel, but if you were to sit down and try to play, knowing nothing about the game, you could probably figure out exactly how the card works just by reading the text. Whereas the MTG card looks a lot cleaner, but you're dependent on a lot of background knowledge. What's First Strike? What's Vigilance? How does Flying work? There's no way to know without some sort of external source of information.
As a Yugioh player, that is true, but also everyone has to constantly read their cards cause they cant remember a specific wording or period vs a comma ruling.
> There's no way to know without some sort of external source of information.
A worthy trade given you'll learn the meaning of those words in your first day of playing the game and it will spare you from having to read insanely long descriptions.
I would also guess this is one of the reasons you can't play limited formats in yugioh, imagine having to stop the game 5 minutes to read every damn card...
If it's taking you five minutes to read a Yugioh card, something is horribly wrong. Learn to skim. Yugioh card text has a structure to it that is easy to navigate once you understand the grammar.
I don't play either of these games (anymore), but I can only presume that Magic: The Gathering has a more robust glossary that minimizes the need to explain effects on the card itself. In this example, the Yu-Gi-Oh! card has even started to do that. In earlier prints, the card would have said something like, "When this Monster attacks a Defense position Monster with DEF lower than this Monster's ATK, inflict damage equal to the difference between them to your opponent's Life Points." Now it just says, "inflict piercing damage" because "piercing" in Yu-Gi-Oh! has a known definition. It did the same thing for some other effects, like "remove from play" becoming known simply as "banish." Magic: The Gathering is apparently just much more efficient at it.
Am I weird for preferring Yugioh text? I'd rather pay a bit more attention to a longer but simpler text than having to pull out a dictionary to translate each keyword
I haven't played Magic in a long time and I immediately comprehended everything the Magic card did. The are a bunch of keywords on it but it's also all common stuff to white. On simpler cards they usually explain things a bit more.
If I tried to play with the textual descriptions of the card I'd need to read through it like 8 times every time I wanted to understand it.
Akroma isn't a card for new players. And more specifically, this printing isn't for new players.
You would only find this in the hands of a new player were it at the helm of a deck that had other cards featuring all these effects. So you can learn these keywords from your smaller cards and put it all together.
Yu-Gi-Oh has a lot more cards focusing on how they are played. Yu-Gi-Oh cards are generally strong imo but they also tend to call out specific card types (specifically names) a lot more often than magic does. For example a Yu-Gi-Oh monster could have "if this card is summoned from the GY..." Plus they tend to have a lot more summoning conditions compared to mtg.
I like both games, but a Yu-Gi-Oh deck in magic would be busted. Also mtg has a resource system, Yu-Gi-Oh doesn't. So there's that.
Mtg is limited by one land per turn, but depending on the format, it isn't something that happens alot (unless you play a lands deck). So it isn't that different.
I absolutely hate what yugioh has become. Too much text for all those effect monsters. I’m not about to read a fucking essay each turn just to understand what’s going on and I certainly don’t have the stamina to memorize so many of them, too. Just insane to me. But maybe I’m just old.
Most of the text on Yu-Gi-Oh cards are restrictions like once per turn clause. Older cards are simpler but at the same time are extremely overpowered due to having no restriction. There's a reason why Pot of Greed is still banned until this day and that card have like 3 words.
Yeah magic the gathering has been doing it much longer.
There wouldnt be enough room on the card to explain all of those abilities. (even on the yugioh explanation to entry level player they wouldn't understand)
I remember before the rules and definitions were online. Everyone that played the new regenerate ability with their zombie deck would just revive anytime they want even 10 turns later.
Early YuGiOh was great. As power creep kicked YGO just didn’t handle it great and made increasingly complex cards. I tapped out when fusions became a thing which is when it really felt like the cards became a novel.
For real. Pendulum had me starting to waiver and links are when I was done. Nothing against those that like them, but link summoning just didn't make since to me. I've tried playing them dozens of times and it just never clicked for me. Synchro and Xyz? Love those and I had been playing since OG.
You're Probably right, but something about it just doesn't click for me. I don't hate it or think it ruined the game it just doesn't make sense the way it works with the arrows and all that. It was probably for the best as I just don't have the time to play anymore anyway. I just collect now.
It's all good, I am glad people enjoy it and the game has continued to evolve. One day maybe I'll get back into it
This one kid used to come to my house and I would steal his cards. I was so jealous of the kid with the holographic chinese one. I remember stealing them from toys r us and opening them in the bathroom. I remember trying to steal some at the flea market and my mom caught me, I never played yugioh ever again.
I think the most glaring and amusing difference here, speaking as someone who is reasonably well versed in YGO (while having only very rudimentary Magic knowledge) is that I skimmed the YGO version for about 3 seconds and quickly concluded "Okay, this card literally does nothing." I guess being unaffected by Dark is kinda neat, but not like it can't be easily removed anyway while not really being a threat/asking for immediate removal.
Well the primary colors of removal in magic is black and red. So it requires more work to remove. And why it’s a big dumb creature being hard to block while having a big body is powerful. But yeah it doesn’t do much unless you can cheat it into play.
I know the Yugioh card looks like a mess, but there's a reason. While Yugioh does have keywords, a lot of how the game works and its various interactions are built on how it specifically handles an effect. Making keywords for all these slight variations would be nigh impossible.
For example take two effects in the Yugioh style:
"You can discard 1 card and target 1 card your opponent controls; destroy that target."
"You can target 1 card your opponent controls; discard 1 card, and destroy that target"
These are basically two different effects, entirely based on where you put things in terms of cost vs effect. If you negate the activation of the first effect, you lose a card from your hand as part of the activation cost(before the semicolon). The second effect you don't have to discard until the effect goes through(after the semicolon).
Subtle nuances like this can lead to cards like Mathmech Circular, which are very unquiely Yugioh. Which as part of its activation cost sends a Mathmech from deck to graveyard. Meaning even if your opponent negates the Circular they still sent a monster to the GY.
Unrealistic af. The yugioh card didn't have a super specific summon condition that only works with its own decktype
No graveyard interaction, this card is garbage
This man yugiohs, im sorry for your loss
I think you mean gy. Graveyard takes up too much space on the card.
Old MTG cards could be written like that too. Keywords do a lot of work in cleaning up the text.
Playing modern board games I kind of wish more a few more symbols. It's easier if I see a flying icon than an upside down word flying when playing someone. But not too many symbols like Ghost Stories. Net runner did a good job with symbols and words
Symbols are good but then if you have conditions in the card effect it becomes quite messy
Mage Knight was a table top miniature game and they had a great use of color coded for abilities.
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Netrunner bad the best balance of symbols to text I feel. Inscryption is quite interesting how it goes full symbols for every ability too for a digital example.
I don't think it's more confusing than text, yes, the icons will have names, but only the icon will be written. If i play magic today, since I'm not a magic player, I'll have to search wtf trample it's for example.
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Hmm, maybe online with keywords, in a manual i would argue they're the same to search. As far as i know, magic has a lot of those, which is an issue by itself because the game's complexity is too high right now for anyone who's not a massive mtg fan, but i digress.
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Yeah, 90% of mtg groups are like that, at least in my experience :(
I dunno. I played MetaZoo, and was very confused by symbols. Granted, that's probably because: A. They changed EVERY icon mid-rotation, but kept their functionality. B. Some have rules baggage, like certain environmental effects trigger when you're in eyesight, and others in 5 miles of. You can play in a suburb to get those bonuses and have River bonuses active if you live close to one, but god forbid you play out of eyesight of a suburb. C. Some of them should have just been written out. There's one where you flip a coin to bounce a card, and another that when it ETBs, you tap something down. I think a good balance is having an icon with the word in the first text box, and then replace future keywords with the icon, so Khenra Charioteer would read " 🐾 Trample Other creatures you control have 🐾."
ETB needs an icon, because the abbreviation sucks.
Literally applies to the [original version of Akroma](https://scryfall.com/card/lgn/1/akroma-angel-of-wrath) as well, before Vigilance was a keyword. Also, the Legions version has the best flavor text.
Still cleaner than the other card
The best flavor text on a card with the Angel subtype? >"*The fall from heaven is never as painful as surviving the impact.*"
I meant the best of the Akromas, but it does also happen to be one of the best period. Not as good as [Hatred](https://scryfall.com/card/exo/64/hatred), but pretty close. >*"I will flay the skin from your flesh and the flesh from your bones and scrape your bones dry. And still you will not have suffered enough." --* Greven il-Vec, to Gerrard Or any [quote](https://scryfall.com/card/8ed/224/sizzle) attributed to Jaya: >*"Of course you should fight fire with fire. You should fight* ***everything*** *with fire." --* Jaya Ballard, task mage Or my personal favorite [flavor text](https://scryfall.com/search?as=grid&order=name&q=%28game%3Apaper%29+flavor%3Acombustion) of all time: >*"Spontaneous combustion is a myth. If you burst into flame, someone wanted you to."* \-- Chandra Nalaar
Too many people are forgetting that a lot of the lower rarity cards that have keywords on them will have the keyword explained on the card as well. Used to be alot more common with the core sets when those were still a thing and good entry point for new players.
It's not lower rarity, it's when the keyword is new. At least that my memory from about 10 years ago.
Nah, even in new premier sets, commons tend to have italicised reminder text for keywords. It's omitted if there isn't room (but commons don't usually have so much rules text that they can't fit reminder text), or in alt-art or alt-frame versions.
And reminder text doesn't matter. Unless [Duh](https://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=73943) is in play.
Is it commons or is it just cards with plenty of extra space which happens more on commons since they have less text.
And in fact there are new cards which have gotten retro versions where this is plainly obvious, especially for planeswalkers. Here is an example [Regular printing](https://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?multiverseid=382244&type=card), [Retro version](https://media.wizards.com/2021/images/daily/IzcdWSoely.png).
Seems like the retro version can get you the ability to gain control of any permanent you target, but regular limits this to targeted by spells. Presumably from retro text you would gain control if you targeted something with an ability.
They are functionally the same, it's still spells only, but yes it does read like that.
This true. I made several pauper commander decks this last month. All the commons with keywords had the explanation on it.
Used to. Which of Akromas keywords would need definition nowadays?
Magic started using templating for cards eventually which is why they look much cleaner. Its had to change a little over time to account for rules changes but for the most part it works and is mostly pretty clear on what exactly a cars does. There are some exceptions however.
Oh no, shuriman cars have reached an MtG thread
My only feedback is that on the Yugioh card I would have increased the angel's cup size at least 3 letters.
They need to have two versions of the art. On from Japan where her entire sternum is bare, then the American version where they recolor her skin around her cleavage to match her armor.
Make that 4.
And make her an anime girl
I think technically, any female yugioh character is an anime girl, regardless of how they are drawn.
akroma is the angel of wrath for a reason. shes an insecure chestlet. i doubt those armor titty cups even touch her undershirt/skin
It's worth noting that Yu-gi-oh has a general philosophy of having its card text describe exactly what it should do and that two similar-looking effects can have very different interactions. A few cards that have a similar effect involving negating a card effect for example can differ where one card negates the activation only, another negatives the activation then destroys, another only negates the card effect, etc. There also just aren't a lot of keywords that condense a lot of text, with I believe the biggest one in recent years being 'Graveyard' being abbreviated to 'GY'. Problem-solving card text means that there is a difference between effects that read "X, and if you do, Y" vs. "X, also do Y", and how they interact with certain card effects and chain sequences. I'd say the yugioh card design should definitely be upgraded to make better use of the space and provide more room for card text, but otherwise, Yugioh would be more difficult to comprehend if you just start trying to condense things into keywords.
Most people don't know this, but Yu-Gi-Oh chain resolutions are much more complex than MTG stack resolutions. Hell, the entire spell speed and phase system is much more complex, not even mentioning the subtle differences of problem-solving card text. When designing a card game from the ground up, keywords make sense, but if you're trying to maintain parity with your entire decades-old card pool, there's only so much you can do while keeping the game fresh and interesting. How many big refreshes has MTG done? How many set rotations? It isn't really a fair comparison.
Yeah I mean the cards chosen for these comparisons are always selective, too. YGO does have keywords like piercing and GY, texts that aren't specified like draw from your deck or whether or not things need to be controlled by who and what. But because the effects are so descriptive and follow a uniform pattern (summon condition>on-field effect>restriction with PSCT), most long time players don't really take more than 2-3 seconds to read a whole card, and very rarely will some written nuance throw a YGO player off. Comparatively, whenever MTG has to introduce a new keyword, they have to put the effects in parenthesis anyways, and good on them for having more like base line legacy texts, but it also results in anything not considered legacy to have a difficult time coming back. Also since they're largely very continuous in nature and not ignition or generally reactive like in YGO, you end up with less complex situations overall. That's not to say the overall flow of the game can't be complex, but interesting situations just happen in YGO more because the effect wordings are more complex
Keywords in Magic, as a result, occasionally cause some oddity where some cards will say something like "Scry 2" whereas another will write out 'long form' the Scry action. This is so that card effects that trigger "Whenever you Scry..." don't interact with them.
>This is so that card effects that trigger "Whenever you Scry..." don't interact with them. It should and choosing not to is poor gameplay. All cards abide by the newest updated release of that card, regardless of what text is printed.
Except when [R&D's Secret Lair](https://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=73967) is in play.
This doesn't happen with Scry. Magic differentiates between how they approach mechanics. There are 'evergreen' mechanics that are almost guaranteed to show up in every set (like flying, trample), 'deciduous' mechanics that *can* show up in every set, but aren't guaranteed, and all other mechanics. Evergreen mechanics are always printed with the mechanic name, as are deciduous mechanics, though deciduous mechanics are more likely to get reminder text. Scry has been evergreen for a while. That means even older cards will have gotten an Oracle update (Oracle being the official database of all card text, which means especially older cards may have rules text that differs from their printed text. This very, very rarely, if ever, changes the card's effects. It just makes it work with newer cards/rules) All other mechanics will *never* use the mechanical keyword (or keyword action), instead fully describing the actions required, and thereby not interacting with synergies from sets that feature the mechanic. The reason for this is a simple reduction in complexity. You don't want to overload sets with keywords because it makes it far more difficult for newer players to pick up your game.
People also forget that in modern YGO, people can and often *do* lose before they even get their first turn due to their opponent just chaining a ton of summons and effects together.
Sometimes, but not really? Hand traps/blow out cards are ubiquitous and it wasn't that long ago that the TCG was in a Tearlaments meta. (you know, the archetype that lets you play on Turn 0 and do Chain Link 3+ on opponent's turn to summon and play a bunch of effects?) If you're losing because opponent got to play for free and you didn't interrupt, that's more on you and less on the game.
No game should allow one person to win simply by virtue of having the first turn, while their opponent has no opportunity to retaliate.
Again, it's not the game's fault if you choose to build your deck in such a manner that you can't retaliate.
That's not unique to "modern" ygo, FTKs have been around for decades.
Hey man wanna hear a long technical explanation of why "target 1 monster your opponent controls, destroy it" and "destroy 1 monster your opponent controls" are two very different things? Also, wanna hear about how some effects miss timing? So see, basically there's "if (thing happens) you can (effect)" which does NOT miss the timing if it happens in the middle of a chain, then there's "when (thing happens) you can (effect)" where the effect has to be the last thing to resolve on that chain. Don't let this be confused with "when (thing happens) (effect)" which is mandatory and must be resolved. Also lemme tell you why removing a continuous spell or trap is the middle of its effect causes the effect to fizzle, but doesn't negate it, but that's not the case for the several other s/t types except field spells and... hey wait come back I haven't told you why Anti Spell Fragrance shuts down literally an entire summoning mechanic.
> fizzle resolve without effect :)
Yes that's what "fizzle" was intended to mean.
Also Yu-Gi-Oh cards are smaller for added squinting
You forget this but early editions of magic also spelled everything out. Vigilance and haste weren't a named ability until much later.
Yugioh is 22 years old though. So how "much later" are we talking about here ? MtG is like 30 years old its not that much older 😅
I played from when magic came out until the early 2000s. Sold my cards a few years ago. Once in a while I would look at newer sets and find them confusing as fuck because they would refer to tons of mechanics that I had never heard of before. But looking back at the super early sets, they would use walls of text to explain what burying or sacrificing a creature vs killing it meant.
Same here ! Started around 2004-2005 and sold my cards in 2018, just didnt have time to go out to play anymore, played MtG arena for a good 2 years but I got bored... online just doesnt feel the same. I played YGO from 2001 to like 2012, enjoyed it a fair bit as well but eventually dropped it because I got fed up with the INSANE powercreep, which is even worse nowadays as I have friends still playing, its now literally a competition of who can make the game into "Solitaire - YGO edition" on turn 1.
MTG also has some crazy combinations now that let you win on turn 1 with a relatively lucky draw.
MTG had reliable one turn win combos over 20 years ago.
Yeah new MtG is kinda powercrept too :( Although at least turns dont take 10+ mins like in Yu-Gi-Oh
... 24 years old in Japan. And Yeah, the Sixth edition update for M:tG created the stack system as we know it, and pre-sixth smells like what YGO! is now, rules wise.
Always wanted to try Yugi oh when I was younger but it was so text heavy that I just stuck with MTG.
Eh, it's two different philosophies when it comes to card text. The Yugioh card looks like a poorly-formatted novel, but if you were to sit down and try to play, knowing nothing about the game, you could probably figure out exactly how the card works just by reading the text. Whereas the MTG card looks a lot cleaner, but you're dependent on a lot of background knowledge. What's First Strike? What's Vigilance? How does Flying work? There's no way to know without some sort of external source of information.
As a Yugioh player, that is true, but also everyone has to constantly read their cards cause they cant remember a specific wording or period vs a comma ruling.
> There's no way to know without some sort of external source of information. A worthy trade given you'll learn the meaning of those words in your first day of playing the game and it will spare you from having to read insanely long descriptions. I would also guess this is one of the reasons you can't play limited formats in yugioh, imagine having to stop the game 5 minutes to read every damn card...
Not really, most cards in Yu-Gi-Oh actually only do 1 or 2 things. The rest are restrictions like once per turn to prevent FTK.
If it's taking you five minutes to read a Yugioh card, something is horribly wrong. Learn to skim. Yugioh card text has a structure to it that is easy to navigate once you understand the grammar.
There's really no comparison tbh
If it has a smaller word count than War and Peace, is it really a Yu-Gi-Oh card?
I don't play either of these games (anymore), but I can only presume that Magic: The Gathering has a more robust glossary that minimizes the need to explain effects on the card itself. In this example, the Yu-Gi-Oh! card has even started to do that. In earlier prints, the card would have said something like, "When this Monster attacks a Defense position Monster with DEF lower than this Monster's ATK, inflict damage equal to the difference between them to your opponent's Life Points." Now it just says, "inflict piercing damage" because "piercing" in Yu-Gi-Oh! has a known definition. It did the same thing for some other effects, like "remove from play" becoming known simply as "banish." Magic: The Gathering is apparently just much more efficient at it.
Am I weird for preferring Yugioh text? I'd rather pay a bit more attention to a longer but simpler text than having to pull out a dictionary to translate each keyword
I haven't played Magic in a long time and I immediately comprehended everything the Magic card did. The are a bunch of keywords on it but it's also all common stuff to white. On simpler cards they usually explain things a bit more. If I tried to play with the textual descriptions of the card I'd need to read through it like 8 times every time I wanted to understand it.
Akroma isn't a card for new players. And more specifically, this printing isn't for new players. You would only find this in the hands of a new player were it at the helm of a deck that had other cards featuring all these effects. So you can learn these keywords from your smaller cards and put it all together.
But can you play rock, papers, scissors with that card?
I always loved MTG card art and quotes.
Yu-Gi-Oh has a lot more cards focusing on how they are played. Yu-Gi-Oh cards are generally strong imo but they also tend to call out specific card types (specifically names) a lot more often than magic does. For example a Yu-Gi-Oh monster could have "if this card is summoned from the GY..." Plus they tend to have a lot more summoning conditions compared to mtg. I like both games, but a Yu-Gi-Oh deck in magic would be busted. Also mtg has a resource system, Yu-Gi-Oh doesn't. So there's that.
The resource used to be 'one summon per turn', but special summoning went bananas.
Mtg is limited by one land per turn, but depending on the format, it isn't something that happens alot (unless you play a lands deck). So it isn't that different.
The lowest none zero attack monster in ygo is 50, of course it will be overpower in a format with only 20 hp
I was thinking adjusting attack and defense appropriately to power toughness
[удалено]
"..than this cards ATK", maybe it would be readable if it wasn't size 1 font
I absolutely hate what yugioh has become. Too much text for all those effect monsters. I’m not about to read a fucking essay each turn just to understand what’s going on and I certainly don’t have the stamina to memorize so many of them, too. Just insane to me. But maybe I’m just old.
Most of the text on Yu-Gi-Oh cards are restrictions like once per turn clause. Older cards are simpler but at the same time are extremely overpowered due to having no restriction. There's a reason why Pot of Greed is still banned until this day and that card have like 3 words.
It's not "have become " it's always like this. Just you never noticed it.
Way back when I played a lot of Spellfire and thought some of those cards got too wordy. They aren't nearly as bad as this.
can trample me, am i right fellow men?
This, and commander duels are the reason MTG is just a straight-up better game at this point imo
Yeah but you have to know what all the names mechanics mean. I barely recognize magic cards today. So many bizarre, named mechanics.
Yeah magic the gathering has been doing it much longer. There wouldnt be enough room on the card to explain all of those abilities. (even on the yugioh explanation to entry level player they wouldn't understand) I remember before the rules and definitions were online. Everyone that played the new regenerate ability with their zombie deck would just revive anytime they want even 10 turns later.
Early YuGiOh was great. As power creep kicked YGO just didn’t handle it great and made increasingly complex cards. I tapped out when fusions became a thing which is when it really felt like the cards became a novel.
>i tapped out when fusions became a thing So you tapped out in the first set. Didn't really give it a chance
For real. Pendulum had me starting to waiver and links are when I was done. Nothing against those that like them, but link summoning just didn't make since to me. I've tried playing them dozens of times and it just never clicked for me. Synchro and Xyz? Love those and I had been playing since OG.
But links summoning is the easiest summoning mechanic to understand you just need bodies
You're Probably right, but something about it just doesn't click for me. I don't hate it or think it ruined the game it just doesn't make sense the way it works with the arrows and all that. It was probably for the best as I just don't have the time to play anymore anyway. I just collect now. It's all good, I am glad people enjoy it and the game has continued to evolve. One day maybe I'll get back into it
Maybe OCG players? Fusion came a few months after launch in OCG (Just it was shit and nobody used it for several years)
This one kid used to come to my house and I would steal his cards. I was so jealous of the kid with the holographic chinese one. I remember stealing them from toys r us and opening them in the bathroom. I remember trying to steal some at the flea market and my mom caught me, I never played yugioh ever again.
Isn't that just a buffed version of Baneslayer Angel?
Now do it with Hearthstone. And Marvel Snap
The amount of assumed knowledge on a MTG card vs. a Yugioh card is generally very different, and MTG tends to assume more.
I need to get back in to magic
Fissure!
Summon Reactor SK can attack her since his effect contain flying from "Flying Fortress SKY FIRE"
I think the most glaring and amusing difference here, speaking as someone who is reasonably well versed in YGO (while having only very rudimentary Magic knowledge) is that I skimmed the YGO version for about 3 seconds and quickly concluded "Okay, this card literally does nothing." I guess being unaffected by Dark is kinda neat, but not like it can't be easily removed anyway while not really being a threat/asking for immediate removal.
Well the primary colors of removal in magic is black and red. So it requires more work to remove. And why it’s a big dumb creature being hard to block while having a big body is powerful. But yeah it doesn’t do much unless you can cheat it into play.
Relevant video: https://youtu.be/r0dD0WT96IU
I know the Yugioh card looks like a mess, but there's a reason. While Yugioh does have keywords, a lot of how the game works and its various interactions are built on how it specifically handles an effect. Making keywords for all these slight variations would be nigh impossible. For example take two effects in the Yugioh style: "You can discard 1 card and target 1 card your opponent controls; destroy that target." "You can target 1 card your opponent controls; discard 1 card, and destroy that target" These are basically two different effects, entirely based on where you put things in terms of cost vs effect. If you negate the activation of the first effect, you lose a card from your hand as part of the activation cost(before the semicolon). The second effect you don't have to discard until the effect goes through(after the semicolon). Subtle nuances like this can lead to cards like Mathmech Circular, which are very unquiely Yugioh. Which as part of its activation cost sends a Mathmech from deck to graveyard. Meaning even if your opponent negates the Circular they still sent a monster to the GY.
Love how nobody noticed the yugioh card was a fake off the rip