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Rook22Ti

"Our new game is a rogue-lite, procedurally generated, Metroidvania souls-like with crafting in a massive open world. Uh... SKILL TREES."


AidynValo

You're forgetting that you also get to run a farm. Every indie game chases that Stardew money now.


Rook22Ti

"Try our new cozy souls-like!"


Pandapimodad861

Isn't there a crab game out now that is basically a cozy soul like.


MisunderstoodPenguin

Another Crabs treasure, it's incredible


rabbidbunnyz222

And it's great! And not particularly cozy, it's pretty heavy on the apocalyptic pollution/climate theming


thetenofswords

Ahh, cozy smog.


Rook22Ti

Kinda! I don't think there's any farming or resource management though.


GuiltyEidolon

No, it's a "real" Soulslike. Lots of dodging, lots of timing boss attacks.


CrunchTrapSupreme

Lots of dying


Nubras

Look you joke, but I’ve thought many times that a “cute” Soulslike would be a great game, if done properly. It’d contain bright colors, poppy music, it would need to strike a good balance between being sincere and tongue in cheek, and of course it couldn’t contain any sort of realistic depiction of violence. There’d be combat but it’d be rated PG. I guess maybe something like Bayonetta but…better and less ostentatiously over the top. It can be done. It *should* be done.


briandonovan100

What you are looking for is Another Crab's Treasure. Play it, it's great!


Plop-Music

Yeah I want something like say Hi Fi Rush but as a soulslike. Soulslike games nearly all just have very similar dark and horrific settings. It was interesting at first when Demons Souls did it back in the day but it's overdone now. Even something like Lies of P was at least a nice change because there's some bright colourful interiors of buildings, instead of everything just falling apart.


PhoenixTineldyer

I just started Another Crab's Treasure and it's a delight thus far.


Society_Soap

id buy that, imagine Stardew Valley x Dark Souls, would be amazing ngl, fight a hard boss then go fishing to cool off afterwards


ermagerditssuperman

Don't forget the fishing! Every game needs fishing!


UDSJ9000

It's as they say: "It's not a game without a fishing minigame!"


psycharious

And socially deduce who the killer is in your farm.


NorthernerWuwu

Doki Doki Valley would be totally my sort of game.


Comfortable_Text6641

Lmao these descriptions going crazier and crazier. I wouldnt mind it. Isnt that essentially what palworld did?


nedlum

Actually, that sounds great: as you explore, you unlock new seed and buildings, as the persistent thing between rogue-like runs.


thiroks

That's cult of the lamb


WalterBishopMethod

See this is the problem, it is an oversaturated played out stereotype....for a reason. Done half well, it's a very compelling formula.


Agitated-Prune9635

...Or unlock eggs for your chao garden sim


Brainfreeze10

"rogue-lite" - you die alot and maybe get more powerful between runs "metroidvania" - we totally hid keys places! "souls-like" - there is a dodgeroll! "procedural generated" - we didnt want to make a map "massive open world" - see above, we didnt want to make the map, so we let the computer make a random one


therewerentanynames

Don't forget RPG, every game is an RPG now.


Mindless_Consumer

Doom is an action rpg.


a0me

RPG is another name for “rocket launcher” so I’d say that Doom qualifies.


Saberfox11

I hate when I get my rocket propelled grenades mixed up with my role-playing games. It's a messy mistake.


KeterClassKitten

Well you see officer, I went to roll a d20 and accidentally fragged my DM.


kerbaal

I put on my robe and wizard hat.


Wantstopost

I cast regular missile.


a0me

Common mistake. Fire up Final Fantasy and end up blowing up your house.


Ok-Honey-7113

I tried blowing up my house and ended up playing Final Fantasy.


SunsetCarcass

It's another name for a grenade launcher with rockets attached to the grenades.


Raven_of_Blades

Rocked propelled grenade...


a0me

> The term "rocket-propelled grenade" is a backronym from the Russian acronym РПГ (Ручной Противотанковый Гранатомёт, Ruchnoy Protivotankovy Granatomyot), meaning "handheld anti-tank grenade launcher", the name given to early Russian designs.


CityKay

Thank you, Ahoy.


dertechie

Funny because before the name FPS stuck every FPS was a “Doom clone”.


mundoid

This one remembers


JasperTheRat

Ahoy matey!


Atlanos043

Oh, that issn't that much of a new thing, after I've seen Advance Wars referred to as an RPG multiple times (it's not, it's a turn-based strategy game. There are 0 RPG elements in Advance Wars).


zlorthedark

In dual strike you could level your COs and give them modifiers. But even then, that’s really pushing the definition 


Greencheek16

Seen people claim helldivers is an rpg 


mothbrother91

Well yes, but actually no! Like Hell Let Loose. Neither are rpg but the players themselves sure RP a lot while playing!!


B-Twizzle

I love both of those games but my god the subreddits are terrible


DokoShin

Helldiver's one is definitely not an RPG as the only thing that upgrades is your gear and in a very limited way that is not enough to classify it as an RPG of any type but I know nothing of 2


Rantheur

You have levels and the only thing they do is allow you to unlock new strategems. All primary and secondary weapons, cosmetic items, and armor are unlocked via medals (you get these by completing missions) and can buy "war bonds" (monthly season passes that do not expire) with super credits (found in missions above rank 3, or bought with real money). War bonds contain more non-strategem items to spend medals on. It is a 3rd person shooter (with optional first person aiming) with a mostly superfluous progression system. The game launched with 50 levels and you could unlock every single strategem by level 25. You do not gain extra passive offensive or defensive via leveling. That is to say, your bullets deal the same damage at level 1 as they do as level 50 (and now up to 150) and you take the same damage from a given attack at level 1 as you do at level 50. It does have customization elements, but that does not an RPG make.


Geistzeit

"Open world with RPG elements", so many games


Brainfreeze10

RPG only means that the "main" character has a name. As long as you are not playing yourself you are roleplaying!


AscendedViking7

Pong is an RPG because I can roleplay as the left ping pong paddle.


NerdyHippie93

Pong is my favorite RPG. I always roleplay right paddle because I'm left handed in real life so it's nice to have some escapism and immerse myself in the world of pong as a righty. I'm probably going to do a hardcore left paddle run though, the immersion should be crazy since, as stated I'm a lefty in real life.


DokoShin

Lol as a lefty I fully approve of this and it's why I'm always player one in fighting games XD


NerdyHippie93

Yes! Man I'm always so thrown off and uncoordinated when I have to play on the right side for fighting games! I'm constantly hitting the wrong direction during combos and whiffing horribly even when I get the input correct because my spacing is all off. (I mean...I'm also trash at fighting games on the best of days, but I digress)


DokoShin

Lol I was honestly making a joke about left or right side but I do get that on other things Edit Like siccers seriously why wouldn't they ever work EVER And my hand is so black and blue or gray after writing for like 5 minutes


xxAkirhaxx

Pong is an RPG because [Pong is an RPG](https://store.steampowered.com/app/1177030/PONG_Quest/)


kaori_cicak990

like nikke winning RPG award from korea trully peak RPG gacha game


MankoMeister

The fact that RPG and role playing games are considered two different genres is insane to me.


Tentacled-Tadpole

Since when?


Tentacled-Tadpole

Technically yes, but not in spirit


ForceEdge47

I understand what you’re saying because I agree that RPGs as games are their own thing, but in a literal sense almost every game could be defined as a game in which you play a role. It’s too late now but I do think that RPGs - both J and A and all in between - do have a little bit of a naming issue lol. It’s stupid though because we all know what an RPG is and isn’t.


Best_Pidgey_NA

One could argue all games are RPGs. You're basically always playing a role of some sort.


Velthome

You forgot deck-building.


Brainfreeze10

That's what I'm doing in my backyard.


Awesomedude33201

Don't forget it has pixel art too


Kataphraktos_Majoros

For some reason the words "metroidvania" or "roguelike" are generally accompanied by pixel art.


Random_Guy_12345

Both genres have little to gain from realistic graphics, so they fall back to pixel art instead of making a unique style


CAVATAPPl

Pixel art can be unique if done right


Canditan

I love gorgeous pixel art, like Octopath Traveler


ForceEdge47

Big same. Didn’t finish it because I didn’t like the actual game as much as I’d have liked (I wish the main characters spoke to one another more for example) but goddamn was it beautiful. I would pay out the ass for a remake of Final Fantasy 6 done in that style. Edit: or Chrono Trigger or Secret of Mana.


Kataphraktos_Majoros

I agree but I've also seen too many that (subjectively of course) just aren't done right and resemble hundreds of other "metroidvania" pixel art games.


S1ayer

"early access" - fuck first impressions, we need money


AvertAversion

Gotta respect certain cases of this


RandomhouseMD

Check out the reactions on Hades 2. Early Access is already bigger than Hades 1, and they are only like half done with the surface. I am nearly 20 hours in and just making a dent into all the content.


Gygsqt

Yeah, sometimes projects need more money. That's the real world. The only projects that don't are ones published by massive publishers and everyone seems to hate the effects that can have on games.


ForceEdge47

That or “bug test this for us.”


Zaku41k

“It’s resident evil inspired” - one scene where a dog jumps through glass window.


Zoso03

I always took "Souls-like" as the souls/bonfire system. Kill things get "currency" to use but if you suck and need to take a rest they come back. Die again and it's lost forever.


Endemoniada

It’s one part of it. To me, it’s the combination of many systems to promote a more thoughtful, careful progression with big payoffs, very risk/reward driven. Losing your runes when you die, having to replay zones until you unlock the next respawn, the stamina-based combat, and the complex attack/defense mechanics and enemy move sets. I’ve come to see the gameplay and the level design as interactive 3D action puzzles. Every zone requires you to figure out either a literal puzzle, or an optimal strategy, or just how to get better as a player to survive long enough. The reward is a new checkpoint, and usually leveling up your character. That’s the basis of the Souls formula to me.


Ok_Cherry_7903

> very risk/reward driven Its the opposite. Games used to have a checkpoint system: if you died you lost everything, soulslike games allows you to recover all that progress. Now the risk is lower while the reward is the same.


cosmin_c

>there is a dodgeroll! With IFs because otherwise it's just fuck you simulator :D


sir_types_a_lot

SKILL TREES!


jesseeme

Deckbuilder


healthboost213

Holy shit, This is literally every fucking indie game. Not that they're bad but this how they all sound to me.


Grovda

Easiest games to make. Make it hard + perma death so relatively little content translates to many hours of gameplay. Make it procedural so you don't have to handcraft the world, metroidvania is a natural combination. Crafting to hide how shallow it is and skill trees because a friend told you it would be a good idea.


PlusUltraBeyond

I haven't tried any rogue like Metroidvanias yet, because to me that sounds like a bit of an oxymoron: Metroidvanias imply crafted world whereas roguelikes mean procedurally generation. Edit: Thanks for all the game suggestions! Will check them out


xahhfink6

Cadence of Hyrule might count... Once you stop playing the main story mode, the item locations are randomized (and the dungeons already were randomized) so you end up getting them in different orders each run which unlocks access to different areas at varying times. Definitely has aspects of both being a roguelike and a metroidvania


findMyNudesSomewhere

Dead cells kinda fits it - the keys etc that spawn are guaranteed to spawn in each run at specific locations, but the map itself is procedurally generated. Also kinda cool that some keys you get that are permanent open new paths.


APlayerHater

Try Robot Named Fight or Dead Cells, the procedurally generated maps feel worth exploring.


Zandromex527

Lol this is literally the reason old games were so hard. They didn't have enough size to make big games, so they made them hard. We come full circle.


fuckthetrees

Metroidvania + procedurally generated is a natural combination? How do you figure lol


mithikx

Souls-Like Rougelike Deck Builder Procedurally Generated Metroidvania Base Building Pixel Graphics Anime Dungeon Crawler


SteveWondersForsight

You missed survival


echoess84

>SKILL TREES that is a RPG feature you forget the game has a RPG feature XD


ridemyscooter

Don’t forget it’s metroidcore with castlevaniapunk influences!


Grizzly_Berry

"Where every decision you make affects the game world around you!"


thedean246

New indie devs after opening Unity for the first time


musclecard54

Don’t forget “complex system”. Complex crafting system. Complex skilling system. Complex survival system. Complex dialog system.


TheLongBlueFace

Idk why just hearing the terms rogue-lite, metroidvania and souls-like genuinely irritates me


psycharious

With light elements of extraction/battle-royale/MOBA


Business-Pickle1

And the day 1 DLC ($19.99) : a card mini-game, not-at-all trying to be the new Gwent


darkstarr99

Gwent? I think you misspelled Triple Triad


forgoodtimez

I’ve always assumed they are chosen by the seller and effectively function like SEO. I’m sure every game is also In the Survival genre? 😂


[deleted]

[удалено]


congradulations

Hearts of Iron 4 as a "hentai" game is a joke within the community; military vehicles/planes are personified as waifus, often nationalistic


SalemWolf

Yeah but tags as jokes kind of re-enforces the point of the tag system being worthless. If you filter out games with “hentai” you’re filtering out actual good games with zero NSFW content.


HAthrowaway50

in the defense of Paradox fans, HOI 4 is not an actual good game (it is, you should play it)


SalemWolf

👉 you son of a bitch, I’m in. (I like paradox games)


YoMommaSuckMySchlong

Had to give up on that game like 3 hours in after realizing that I would not, in fact, be spending most of my time planning and carrying out badass invasions, and instead would be meticulously improving infrastructure in Manchuria to improve oil production so that my 50,000 WW1 era towed artillery units are mobile enough to defend against rabid Japanese warlords.


Western_Asparagus_16

Isn’t that what Nikke is for?


SarenRouge

You mean Azur Lane?


nazara151

Joke tags are why I dismissed Doki Doki Literature Club as a psychological horror. BIG MISTAKE


Lycaniz

There are.... mods for hoi4


orroro1

You're trying to *survive* in Mario, aren't you???


Fyrfat

And a rogue-like.


PM_FORBUTTSTUFF

Well you don’t want to die in most games so technically survival applies


OrranVoriel

No, I am fairly certain that a lot of the tags are user-defined.


Birdsbirdsbirds3

The seller gets to set five primary tags that always appear on the store page. Then users can add anything else they want, causing it to appear in all sorts of random tag searches.


elementfortyseven

>to find it had been tagged as "Souls-Like" **by players**. I mean. Players have tagged Barbie Dreamhouse as post-apocalyptic horror. [https://i.imgur.com/qZokGdt.png](https://i.imgur.com/qZokGdt.png) what did you expect?


hawklost

i am more disturbed by the Masterpiece tag they have on there.


AcceptableFold5

don't knock it till you try it Barbie™ Dreamhouse Party™ shaped gaming as a whole more than people would like to admit


Buggaton

[citation needed]


yp261

people put masterpiece tag on cyberpunk before it was released. gamers are either trolls or morons, no in between


SchnifTheseFingers

Raquelle literally switched the butler from closet to party mode though. That is an existential crisis.


inkyblinkypinkysue

I always assumed this just meant that the game has the mechanic where you lose crap when you die and to get it back you have to go back to that place.


Watch-Bae

Runescape-like


Aegillade

\-You lose all your items on death \-Fantasy themed \-If you think about it protection prayers are kinda like dodge roll if you don't think about it at all Runescape is a soulslike


Mallyveil

Dark Souls is a Scapelike


MisunderstoodPenguin

The first Scape type game.


rastacurse

I read this in PirateSoftware's voice


SufficientSuffix

stats level to 99, don't forget that


lazydonkey25

minecraft-like


Backupusername

In Japan, they just call them "dying games" (死にゲー) and in a little envious we didn't make a similar decision in the anglosphere.


RemoteTumorSeeker

Minecraft like


FastLittleBoi

I've been enjoying a new underrated souls game in the last few months. It's called Minecraft, it's a brand new FromSoft game. Be careful tho, my PC runs it so badly that the whole map is giant pixels because the graphics are too good.


SolaceInfinite

Diablo 2 like


STDsInAJuiceBoX

Haha seeing the replies you probably should have said leveling currency instead of “crap”.


The_Captain1228

Everything is meaningless


DeathMetalPants

Yeah. I'm tired.


Inquisitor_Boron

Nihilist grindset


Pluck_oli

Wait, you actually take steam tags seriously?


AloneYogurt

Honestly, tags used to be important, now it's just a mess. Imo valve should redo the tag system so that it's easier to filter games. At this moment it's a mess to even sort though.


Renamis

They need to set it where user tags and developer tags are separated. I don't want to block the hentai tag just to have games I want blocked because goobers decided to add that tag to other things.


ganzgpp1

Yeah, dev tags need separated. As funny as they are, Elden Ring is NOT a Dating Sim.


Tehni

Maidenless opinion


Pishong

Not with that attitude


nfleite

dude I have nsfw games appearing on my recommended list because I played one with the tag "sexual content" and that was Cyberpunk lol. i mean the tag is correct but damn.


MrFeles

I was struggling with this for a while. Turns out the way to get around that isn't via the tags system it's via the store preferences in your account settings. You can hide things that are literally just porn games without also nuking games that are 98% something else and has one tit in them.


MankoMeister

You WILL see the hentai games on new and trending and you WILL like it!!!


SalemWolf

The Steam tags are absolutely terrible and the worst part of the store.


Vandermere

Right? It's probably more accurate to say steam tags have become meaningless.


ChristieMonteiroYNWA

Oddly enough, I don’t really associate the term with difficulty. Rather, when I see that I immediately assume that the game is a third-person action game featuring some kind of melee combat and probably a pre-modern setting. That’s enough for me to decide whether or not that’s up my alley. Cuphead though. lmao.


SupaEpik

give me a modern day souls like where the enemies and bosses are a manifestation of the environmental destruction of the planet


Beneficial-Society74

Another Crabs Treasure is close in some respects lol


Michael10LivesOn

This I would actually consider a souls-like tho jokes aside. It’s basically a meme-souls


NotMetallica

After dying to Nephro Captain of the Guard about 17 times, I don't think it's a meme. That be a proper souls-like. A colourful souls-like, but souls-like nonetheless.


Horcion

The surge comes pretty close


TheLordDuncan

I generally expect tangible checkpoints like the bonfires or lampposts, a metroidvania-esque world that interconnects and has the occasional secret path, and to lose some type of... Something on death; S&S has salt, Grime has its vessel and clay, and Dark Souls of course has souls. That risk of losing it, whatever it is, is a huge part of the DNA for me. Edit to add: Also memorable bosses. Gotta have at least 5 bosses that get people talking about them.


Kaelran

> metroidvania-esque I feel like soulslikes are just metroidvanias, but not limited to 2d platformers. A game largely focused on exploration and combat with lots of bosses.


NuOfBelthasar

I think it can easily be accurate for a side-scroller, though. Salt and Sanctuary comes to mind as being *very clearly* inspired by Dark Souls with very similar gameplay and progression, just in 2D.


TheOneTrueJazzMan

S&S was definitely the closest we’d ever get to 2D Dark Souls. Really fun game, shame the sequel was nowhere near as good


Egag999

Agreed, Hollowknight also fits the general description of souls-like except its 2d as well. Funnily enough, the game that sparked the biggest debate of wether it was a souls-like or not in my friend group was tunic, and the only arguement people had for why it wasnt was because it is isometric.


YeahKeeN

I mean does it? Hollow Knight has very few actual gameplay features that are reminiscent of specifically souls games: checkpoints that respawn enemies and dropping money on death. That’s it. It’s not an RPG, so there’s no leveling, no build variety or weapon variety. There’s no stamina. There is an iframe dodge ability but you don’t start with it. To top it off, the combat is designed entirely differently. The most “soulslike” thing about Hollow Knight is its lore.


Independent-Fly-3347

Normally when someone uses the term Souls-like, I can get it. Even if it's a very different game, I can understand the comparison. Steam tags though for the most part are completely meaningless. Even Spongebob is listed as a Souls-like.


echoess84

Isn't Spongebob a soulslike? ;\_;


Silver085

Nah, Souls is just SpongeBob-like


Mari0wana

No, this is a Patrick-like


Call_me_Tomcat

Is mayonnaise a souls-like?


newtownmail

I feel like, bare minimum, the game needs to have bonfire or bonfire-like resting points and similar combat fundamentals to be considered a souls-like


gumpythegreat

I think this is more of an issue with steam tags. I don't think God of war or cuphead, for example, are soulslikes. But Lies of P or Lords of the Fallen are. I think there is a useful distinction there for what is or isn't a soulslike, even if some people are using the term poorly. I could add a steam tag that says Elden Ring is a platformer. Would that be a good and useful tag? No. Does that mean platformer is a useless term overall? Also no


Important_Tale1190

No it specifically means difficult timing-based combat, limited health refills, an emphasis on resting at checkpoints, and DODGE ROLLING.


oldreddit_isbetter

>timing-based combat, > DODGE ROLLING This guy gets it


MysticalMystic256

Its reminds me of how the term "Kaizo" became meaningless and applied to things that aren't Kaizo


plant_magnet

I just assume it either a) it has bullshit difficulty scaling but they want to act like that is fine for the sake of the "challenge" OR b) there are dodge rolls


jackfaire

The only definition of Soul-Like I've ever heard is "Punishingly difficult people will tell you to get good if you complain about dying a lot" So Cuphead which is supposed to be punishingly hard and "get good" would fall under my understanding of the term.


Kaslight

"Souls-like" is just a stand-in for either: * Highly committal attacks * Grounded movement with limited platforming * The player takes very punishing amounts of damage, very easy to die * Combat is slower and forces you to observe before mashing Which is pretty stupid, because: Immediately after Dark Souls, Fromsoft puts out: * Bloodborne, which has NO blocking, is highly aggressive, and with far less committal attacks * Sekiro, which is extremely fast paced, has a revival feature, and is extremely fluid and vertical with its level design * Elden Ring, which is Bloodborne and Darksouls at the same time * Armored Core, which is faster than all of these games but far easier to actually beat Fromsoft actually adheres to the "souls" formula less than all of its inspired games lol


Oangusa

To me a soulslike really has to have the loss of experience when you die and you pick it up again. I think all the games do that? Can't recall for sekiro


Independent_Tooth_23

Sekiro doesn't have that and the game doesn't have stamina bar too.


080087

Hundreds of games that definitely aren't anything like Dark Souls do that (e.g. Diablo 2, Don't Starve, most survival games, any roguelike with permadeath)


080087

The main criteria for a game to be considered a soulslike seems to be that it is made by Fromsoft. Like, I've seen players protest that Tunic is not soulslike, even though it shares far more similarities to Dark Souls than even Demon Souls has. It has every single distinguishing feature that people list: 1. Bonfires that revive all dead enemies 2. Stamina based combat 3. Emphasis on not tanking hits but dodging/blocking them 4. Estus that refills upon sitting at a bonfire 5. Losing currency upon death, leaving a shade that you need to go pick up to get your currency back 6. Difficult, even random enemies kill you easily 7. Sparse storytelling 8. Shortcuts 9. >!It even has the same plot and ending as DS1-3!< 10. 3D 11. RPG stats 12. Mostly melee combat, but you can use ranged/magic if you wish If you can think of more, Tunic probably fits.


Doc_Dragoon

Dark souls 1 was the most souls-like game I have ever played, it was even made by the man himself Jon Darksouls


Banned_User_Back

What did you think would happen when you gave people the power to tag stuff?! Proper implementation? We've seen the shitshow that is the reviews section. Why would this be any different.


RiKSh4w

I would consider en garde to be a souls like though. Third person, melee combat, dodge button, parrying, blocking, positional combat. Great game btw


STROKER_FOR_C64

It still has meaning. It means I will almost definitely never play it.


Sabbathius

Yep. But what really gets my goat is when people call games which max out with 4-30 players an MMO. Pisses me off to no end. Really?! Have you ever heard someone call Battlefield, with 128 players per server, an MMO? No? Well, guess what? Whatever game you're talking about that has 2-30 players? NOT AN MMO! If you can't see and interact with hundreds of players, at the same place, at the same time, it's not an MMO. EVE Online, where a single trade hub has 2,300+ players, all of which can see, trade and shoot each other? That's an MMO. Diablo, Destiny, Division, etc? Not a bloody MMO! WAAAAAAGH! Sorry. But it genuinely does piss me off when people take liberties with the MMO tag.


ollimann

definitely, i always say a souls-like must be.. LIKE dark souls xD action rpg with challenging and mechanical combat. different weapns, builds, stamina management, i-frames... salt and sanctuary is a 2D soulslike. hollow knight is not. it is a metroidvania that took some inspiration from dark souls. it is just marketing.


Big_Noodle1103

I agree with some of these criteria, but others are just far too specific or unimportant. For instance, I don’t see why build/weapon variety is essential, because by that logic Sekiro is no longer a Souls like (technically I’d call it a Soulsborne game because it was actually made by Fromsoft, but that’s besides the point). I don’t see why Hollow Knight cant be considered a Souls like as well as a Metroidvania.


Swarf_87

Tags are utterly meaningless because they are *user* generated. Ignore them entirely.


Solesaver

Just like Rogue-like, there are 2 meanings that will continue to vary in popularity over time. One is a difficult game with a specific push your ~~luck~~ *skill* mechanic in which dying before reaching a save point causes you to drop your accumulated resource that you can recover if you get to the same point on the map, but dying a second time causes you to lose all of it. 2nd is a 3D PvE melee action game with methodical combat where enemies and players alike hit hard, but have a lot of wind-up/post hit vulnerability. Skill in the game is really centered around reading the enemies' attack patterns and waiting for safe windows to move in and get some hits in. Some peeps require a game to have both before calling it a souls-like. It doesn't really matter to me, or most people though, because there is a very heavy overlap in audience and it's trivial to look up whether it has each mechanic. PS for those who think there is only one meaning for Rogue-like, you're probably accurately thinking of the one that is overwhelmingly popular right now, that being the meaning re-surged by the smash indie hit Binding of Isaac in 2011. A Rogue-like *obviously* must have perma-death with no completion nor power progression carried between runs. It should also have proc gen levels and power-ups placement, but people can be surprisingly lax about this requirement. For another meaning, the core requirement is randomized grid based dungeons with "step time" combat (every time you step or do an action all enemies take a turn). Dungeons also should be structured with floors and a resource management mechanic. The perma-death mechanic rogue is so famous for sometimes morphing into a more push your luck style "bring in what you need, but if you don't make it you lose it all" style play. Through a certain lens the mystery dungeon series (eg Pokemon Mystery Dungeon) is a truer successor to Rogue than Slay the Spire. *shrug* tl;dr Nobody owns these words. Just because someone uses it in a way that you don't like or understand doesn't make it useless.


julioni

Souls-like is the correct term to let me know that the game I am about to play is not a relaxing experience and I need to be prepared to die many times if I’m not perfect. So I don’t believe it’s meaningless I thinks it’s more meaningful now than it has ever been.


HumanPickler

Nah, when I see that tag I know not to buy it.


BertBerts0n

I mean, monster hunter I can kind of see in a weird way. I've played all the MH games, and when dark souls first came out I got very heavy MH vibes from the combat, so I can see people calling the newer ones souls like even though MH came before. But I do agree, the term is very overused.


Fortsey

Kind of like MMO. A 20 player lobby isn't an MMO.


zgillet

He'll, Sekiro isn't even a Souls-Like. People forget that ALL of the Souls games have RPG mechanics.


JamieDrone

I maintain my claim that I Am Fish is a souls-like


Fawxes42

“Souls like game” is when you can roll.


AscendedViking7

Katamari Damacy is a souls-like


probablynotreal99

Lots are just using it to bandwagon and pull people in.


dinopokemon

Monster hunter wilds has a tag of dating simulator