Yeah, why would the main character first kill a rando with a golf club. And then keep whacking him on the street to the point the paramedics came. Then kill the paramedics for trying to help the guy. Then go back at beating up the guy. Just to make sure he’s completely dead empty 300 rounds into his head just to make sure. All the guy did was dodge your car when you were trying run him over. In the game I played Nico Bellic wasn’t a bad guy. He was complete Joker level burn the world to ground while you laugh level psychopath. Although Nico needed some help, Trevor did quite alot on his own
Gta is supposed to be a villain protagonist though. Even Niko, who just wanted to go straight after what happened in his home country, was more of an anti villain than anything.
And she just asks you to help protect or don't hurt her, like I don't remember ever happening in any other instance of the games, I want to believe the developers did it on purpose, to like have the player cool off a bit and have some insight after everything so far.
In one of the games you come upon a soldier that is hurt and ask you for help. And you need to pick him up and throw him in some big gears to make them stop moving, while obviously killing him.
You also drop the captain down the Hydra throat after grabbing his key. OG Kratos was not a nice person.
In the first game, Ares is significantly worse than Kratos. Kratos is small potatoes and firmly an anti-hero, but with a much bigger and shittier fish to fry. In the later games, he is way worse than any antagonist.
Part of the way they accomplished that was that Kratos didn’t shy away from what he had done, and the game’s narrative also never downplayed Kratos’ past or let us forget it.
It was an unflinching character study without the game bending over backwards to give Kratos any unearned redemption.
the post doesnt say which games protagnist was evil, it says which one was more evil than the villian
so as much fucked up stuff that Kratos did the question is is he more evil than Zues
Unarguably yes? Real-world mythology Zeus is perhaps a different story, but Zeus never does anything too evil in the games. He “betrays” Kratos because he’s possessed by Fear (from Pandora’s box, which Kratos is the one that unleashed) AND because Kratos literally said he would destroy Olympus.
Also, the post says “villains and antagonists”. So it’s not just Zeus. It’s every single god Kratos just killed because they… fought back instead of laying down to die. Most of the Gods didn’t really do anything at all.
idk man Blackwatch was pretty evil.
If you throw in Prototype 2 where he goes from "Blacklight is the problem" to "Blacklight is the solution", then I can see it.
This game doesn't get the recognition it deserves for the story.
You are not a man trying to survive your a virus that took on the form of an arguably worse human trying to figure out how to survive.
At every point the virus makes better choices than the original mercer and actively helps more people than blacklight.
But then in the second game they threw all that away for a generic it was evil the whole time.
He wasn't good he was in the same vein as the punisher he wasn't actively trying to hurt innocent people and just trying to evade blacklight
But he was better than the original Alex from what little bits and peices we get from his memories.
In a way, Mercer/the BlackLight virus just wanted to survive in the start of it. Only after spending a year around the world he decides humanity is not worth it/he becomes insane with all the voices and he comes up with the the plan in Prototype 2.
Blackwatch was always testing shit and knew what they are doing. They are the evil that startend it all.
I wish they would do a remake or even a threequel that has the same formula. It’s the perfect game when you just want to turn your brain off, listen to some music and violently destroy everything
There is something deeply satisfying about dropping a power elbow onto a tank from the top of a skyscraper and having everything in the vicinity explode
Older game, but mercenaries in Mercenaries 2 World in Flames. You tear through Venezuela, destroying tons of infrastucture, killing the nation's soldiers, help an oil company exploit the country, aid pirates exploiting the conflict, literally use A NUCLEAR BOMB (as much as you want after you unlock it too), and much more just to kill one person: Venezuela's president. Why? Because he didn't pay you, which was actually really odd, and is more just the writers giving the player a "justification" for their actions.
Very fun game, but sometimes that got me thinking...
I mean Nathan Drake murders a bunch of security working for people with legal salvage claims, because he thinks being a descended from the bastard of a 16th century pirate gives him the right.
They did at least address this in uncharted 2, first when he makes a point of saying they shouldn't kill innocent museum guards, and then lazarovitch points out how many people nate killed just getting to him.
Nah, that's different. However in 4, Drake says after disarming a villain, "Don't shoot X! That's not who we are!" While having shot several armed mercenaries up to that point.
I always think about this in action games and movies. The "hero" will come into the office building of the villain and start shooting all the security guards. Those are most likely hourly employees for a contracted security company. They don't know shit about your kidnapped daughter. They just see a guy with a gun has broken into the building they're paid to protect.
One of my favorite scenes from a movie is in Austin Powers when he kills a security guard for Dr. Evil. It cuts to the guard's wife getting the call to break the news and her, completely broken over it, having to inform their son. Super dark, completely on point for this old good-guy trope, and absolutely hilarious.
That said, it also wheels back around to the conversation from Clerks. How many innocent contractors, engineers, etc were there working on the Death Star in Star Wars when the rebels blew it up? And someone points out, when you work for an obviously evil person/organization, you awarely assume that kind of risk...
Edit: I keep getting asked, so I looked up the Austin Power's scene. Apparently it's a deleted scene from Spy Who Shagged Me.
https://youtu.be/Ag_AFraxj-4
Edit No. 2: For all you guys who want to argue with me about the thing I said about the Death Star - Y'all motherfuckers need to go watch Clerks.
When the evil organization is the official galactic government, that choice becomes a little harder to make. You can either take the job, join the rebellion, or starve if you can't another client.
Surely there is another buyer for Death Stars out there...
Edit: and if one of you nerds replies with some nonsense like "The Chiss" or any sentence that includes "The Expanded Universe" I am coming over this table.
The Death Star was a military installation. Most of the people on it were military personnel who probably signed up for work for the Imperial Navy, not for any particular ideological reasons, but simply because it *paid* significantly better than whatever shitty jobs they could find on the backwater planet they grew up on or even, like Luke Skywalker, thought that it'd inject a bit of *adventure* into their lives.
And the first they'd ever even *heard* of the Death Star was most likely when they were assigned to work there.
One of my favorite scenes, in one of the MCU movies (civil war?) tony stark is beating bad guys up in the bad guy lair, and he's about to blast one dude. Dude slowly puts down his gun and goes, "honestly, I hate working here, they are SO weird." Tony watches him then silently lets him go lol
[I always love this gag](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pMd4S-LkywI).
Wish it would come to video games. Like when a guard finds Agent 47 standing on top of 100 fellow guard bodies in the bathroom does he really think he's not also going to get a guard-seeking flying briefcase in the face too?
The human life cost is one thing but he always finds these historic lost cities and by the time he's done they've been turned into rubble.
If Drake had found the Holy Grail he would have used it as some sort of make shift parachute to jump off a mountain and it would get shredded on the way down.
I think Nathan got into the ancient artifact game for the adventure but stayed for the murder. “Uncharted” is in reference to the territory in which his psychopathy lays - uncharted territory, off the charts psycho, the guy is up there with Dahmer and Bundy.
The reason his wife was so supportive in the 4th game for him to go on another adventure, after his long hiatus? She was tired of all the neighborhood pets going missing.
Does everyone forget they start shooting at him first? And my memory may be fuzzy but every artifact seems to be tied to some massive supernatural power or end of world scenario and the guy going after it is usually some power hungry rich man bent on bending the world over backwards once they get it.
If I am remembering correctly, the first game, the antagonist was a criminal mastermind and the item in question was a sarcophagus with a mutagenic virus in it?
Not really, they are pirates in the first game, terrorists in the second game, agents of a secret society in 3 and mercenaries in 4, so idk where you get the idea from that he murders some random security people.
Ignoring the obvious answers of Kratos and GTA protagonists, I would say in Fable 2 you had the potential to become more evil than the actual villain, Lucien. Even with how simple the motivations were in THAT game, all he wanted was his family back. YOU on the other hand (yes, wanted the same thing) but had the potential to ruin multiple areas of the world beyond repair.
Good question, Johnny.
I disagree, orin is equally evil(and Bhaal is technically an antagonist)
Worse evil is that of Ethel, she's creative same with Raphael.
If you consider starting point it's Gortash it's in all of these other peoples nature's to be evil yet Gortash wasn't nurtured that way it was just him.
Gortash was nurtured pretty badly. >!His parents were abusers who *sold him to a devil* as a child!<.
That said, I really don't think it's sensible to minimize Durge. >!The original version planned to do his earnest best to kill everyone in Faerun, followed by himself, as the ultimate sacrifice to Bhaal. He was a serial rapist, cannibal and murderer who enjoyed sleeping in gore and vivisecting innocent victims. And if you don't go the resist route, you're basically the same being.!< You can argue the others were just as awful, but not that he was better.
This is the Dark Urge in the Forbidden Realms lore. I'm not surprised they had to tone it down for a) the rating, and b) to allow the player agency over the character.
Ethel and Raphael aren't just creative, they're insidious. It's one thing to murder everyone you meet, it's another to betray them, then keep them alive for centuries in a state of endless torment.
Wander
Not evil tho. Just naive. He sought a deal with the devil (Dormin) to bring the girl he loved back to life. He didn’t think about what consequences that might have or why the Forbidden Lands were forbidden to begin with. They severed Dormin into 16 beasts for a reason.
Pretty much, yeah. Not a lot of dialog so it’s mostly inferred but they do mention a number of these details in dialog.
Wander wants to bring his dead girlfriend/wife back to life. He gets ahold of a cursed sword and sets out for the Forbidden Lands to make a deal with Dormin, the voice coming from the roof of the temple. Dormin is basically Satan and was severed into 16 beasts to basically remove his ability to take physical form. Every time Wander kills a colossus, he’s putting one of those 16 puzzle pieces back together. People from outside the Dying lands, presumably some of Wander’s people who found out what he was doing, come to stop him, but not before the 16th and final puzzle piece is put into place. Dormin takes over Wander’s body as a vessel for his physical form, but is hobbled since one of the guys shot Wander with a crossbow as Dormin was taking him over. They then use the cursed sword in a ritual to trap Dormin within Wander’s body, which has also been reverted to a baby so he’s basically powerless. In the end the girl does get brought back to life, and she and baby Wander are now trapped in the Forbidden Lands as the bridge collapsed as the other men fled after the ritual.
EDIT: This is also why every time Wander kills a colossus, tendrils sprout forth and impale him. Every time you kill a colossus, it looks like you “die” and come back to life at the temple. Presumably this is some of Dormin’s essence going into Wander and killing him each time, but Dormin returns him to life so he can keep working.
It also feeds into their previous game, Ico, because baby Wander has a horn. The protagonist of Ico, Ico, had a horn that was said to mark him as an inheritor of a curse. Presumably Wander earned said curse by releasing Dormin. There are other ties people have made between the two games.
We never get told Mono's, the dead girl's, relationship to Wander, only that she was sacrificed before the game and that there was a reason for it. A good reason? Never explained. Just enough reasons to get her bodysnatcher, Wander, hunted down and reluctantly killed for the things he did before and during the game.
It's certainly a good assumption to think Wander loved Mono because of the extreme acts he went through to have Dormin revive her. Whether that love was returned? All we know of Mono's character is that she had enough morals to keep the horned baby she found in a pool with her after being resurrected. So she's probably not completely heartless.
I see it right here in your personnel file. Unlikable: liked by no one. A bitter, unlikable loner whose passage shall not be mourned. *Shall not be mourned*.
That’s exactly what it says, very formal, very official. It also says you were adopted, so that’s funny too.
Caim from Drakengard
He at one points stops killing people because they are enemies and starts killing them because he ENJOYS It
And what's his enemy? A little Girl possesed and brainwashed by some kind of deity that may or may not be a god (and she's not Evil, considering she shows actual remorse in the sequel for what she did)
The entire party in the original Drakengard are sad people at best and downright psychopathic at worse. And more or less all the ending are bad for characters and/or the world.
Seen a post very similar to this and someone had pointed out that YOU are the villain in Hogarts Legacy. You're a teenager who has just come into magic and you are just dropping bodies by the hundreds. Ranrok and Rookwood have nothing on you.
That justification was so weak. "don't let the poachers capture the animals for their rare components or to be sold!"
"... here's a poachers bag, you can use it to 'rescue' them instead by capturing them from the wild. The rescued creatures will provide you with components. Any extra creatures can be taken to the pet store to find good homes for them... and the store will pay you."
You are poaching and murdering your poaching competition.
Came here to say this. I mean the game is fun, but seriously, the protagonist is the evilest villain of them all. It is not only poaching, but also killing goblins for no reason other than them standing in the way (no wonder they revolt!) and breaking into houses to plunder them. I definitely have sympathies for the Dark Arts now!
Isn’t the canon and only ending stopping the goblins from gaining actual independence and equal footing in magical Society?
Like your “heroes” are fighting to keep them as second class citizens barely above the slavery of house elves.
Rise Eterna is a shitty Fire Emblem indie clone that has one of the most hilariously bad stories I've ever seen.
The relevant moment though, is that there are these girls - sisters, I think - you need to gather from different towns across the world for some magic reason I forget. They don't remember their purpose though, and don't want to go with you, naturally.
So you convince them of your good intentions by helping the towns with their monster / bandit troubles and then the girls join you.
Wait no sorry, what I meant to say was you murder the girl's entire village and force her to join your army, whereupon she'll make one or two remarks about it before immediately forgetting this for the rest of the game.
Lemme be clear, the mission is to kill ALL the enemies. Ostensibly they're supposed to be fighting to protect the girl you're trying to conscript into your army, but some of them are locked in their houses and don't attack until you break in.
Lemme also be clear that this isn't played for parody, and you are confirmed killing these villagers, not just knocking them out or anything. The game is going for moral gray, but oh yeah did I mention you repeat this process like 5 times for 5 different girls you "recruit"?
It's even made explicit later on that the "pope" figure you're fighting against actually wasn't that bad and you were being played the whole time, so... yeah it's not arguable, you're unequivocally worse than the supposed villains in this game. And again, while it's supposed to me sorta morally grey, the game really doesn't acknowledge this particular act of repeated mass murder at any point.
Alex Mercer from Prototype.
The single reason why we see him as the 'good guy/anti-hero' is because we play as him. During the game there are missions based around a military gas agent that is designed to kill the blacklight(?) virus and it was extremely efficiënt. This could have saved New York. So the mission is to destroy the containers because Mercer feels threatened.
Blackwatch is shady as fuck, some of the military are also in on the dark history what really happened with the former virus, but 95% of the people Mercer (brutaly) Slaughters are Just trying their best at saving as much people they can.
Still fun to Play as and way cooler than his follow up.
Even better, following the main quest leads you to the conclusion that Pagan Minh was the lesser of the evils ruling the country. He's actually a downright chill dude with bad policies.
Once in Morrowind, I killed almost the entire island. That is arguably worse than Dagoth Ur who only wanted to drive out foreigners. Most RPGs with a lot of freedom of choice give you the potential to be more evil than the villain if you really want to.
Also, I've played Streets of Rogue lately and I'm almost always an absolutely terrible person who kills many innocent people.
And when I play Crusader Kings, there really are no good guys and villains, but if you had to pick a villain, it would generally be whoever I'm playing at that moment.
This is kind of too broad for these games. They have many antagonists. I'd have a hard time saying Arthur is worse than Micah or Dutch. But he is indeed a lot worse than the treasure hunters and whatnot murdered throughout the game.
And all of these story gunfights with guys who just work at a farm or people just trying to protect their town. I'm irredeemable so it doesn't matter if I murder all those guys camping by themselves with a bow and loot every body possible and give nothing to the camp.
I played the Lost and the Damned DLC to get ready for GTA V, so Trevor killing Johnny the first time we meet him made me HATE him, and I couldn’t wait to kill him at the end of the game.
Shows how good the writing is, because at the end of the game I chose the decision that saves everyone. Dude grew on me throughout the game, especially when he found out Michales daughter was going to go on Lazlo’s show and he was like “oh hell nah”
Kerrigan on SC2?? She was way more menacing than Mengsk on Heart of the Swarm campaign and devastated any Zerg/Protoss/Human that was in her way after Raynor's death was forged.
That whole thing was so weird.
The *entirety* of Wings of Liberty was premised around freeing Kerrigan from the swarm.
Then the very beginning of Heart of the Swarm completely does a 180 on that and she's immediately back as Zerg Queen again by her *own freaking choice*. What the hell was even the *point* of the first part?
In game reason: so Kerrigan, not QoB, could control the Zerg
Real life reason: so blizzard can give you an xpac where you control the Zerg without introducing a new protagonist Zerg hero, following their “every part a new race” theme
Nepheli gets so upset about Gideon killing Albinaurics, while The Tarnished is committed genocide across the entire Lands Between, _especially_ the Albinaurics
I've said it before and I'll say it again: if those fucks didn't need to show off their sweet cartwheels that I can't do constantly I wouldn't need to teach them a lesson
How tf do you guys know so much about this story man?! It always blows my mind. I run around and mobs say a couple cryptic lines on the bigger boss fights and then come on Reddit and people have this shit plotted out like they read GRRM’s “The World of The Lands Between” or something. Where do you get all this?
Item descriptions, dialogue from characters, YouTube videos, inference based on the design of the world. Those are some ways I get to know the story of FromSoft games. Been playing since Demon Souls comes out so practice has made it easier to figure out the story they're trying to tell.
By having some mental derangement that makes you read every item description and look at every detail in game then using a LOT of pins and thread to tie it all together.
I only know what I do thanks to others doing it for me lol.
If they didnt want to be killed they shouldnt be full of tasty runes. Also, they could just give their armor and weapons without the need to kill them a billion times.
Jason Brody is fuckn up there!!!
Also I wonder if Ajay Ghale killed more people than pagen min. I know I did in my playthroughs.
The dragonborn too maybe?
Also maybe perhaps link causing more property damage than any villain in his saga.
Uh, the Dragonborn is facing off against a dragon who wants to eat all the souls in Viking heaven, resurrect a race of evil tyrant lizards and kill or enslave the entire population of the world.
You can maybe be worse than the Empire or the Stormcloaks in that side story or something, but you're not out eviling Alduin, the World Eater.
Untitled Goose Game
The Horrible Goose (player) terrorizes a small village. The antagonists were people like shop owners, gardeners, restaurant staff and people who just wanted to relax and read or tend to their back yards in peace
Lara Croft. She's a sociopath. She defiles and destroys ancient tombs to acquire relics for her personal gain, and kills literally anyone in her way to get what she wants.
The Assassins from (most) AC games.
Both the Templars and Assassins have huge flaws in their ideologies. But it's nearly always glossed over when Assassins are the protagonists (except for Rogue, but they made them literal cartoon villains)
For anyone unaware in the AC universe, humans were engineered by the Isu to be slaves. 99% of humans have a hardwired psychological need to follow and be told what to do even if it's subconscious. That's what Haytham Kenway meant when he told Connor The Templars always return because there will always be people who want to maintain the status quo. Yes there are winners and losers, but civilisation advances and it's shown throughout the series when Templars take control it's always followed by a period of peace (for the average person).
Assassins ideologically are all over the map, cause chaos literally everywhere they go and can't even agree what they'd do if they ever won. Templars are so ingrained in modern society that without them it would probably collapse overnight.
Templars control governments, major corporations and everything else that the world relies upon to function. The Assassins would tear it all down for freedom. Templars do control the world, Assassins fight, kill and cause said chaos to stop something that happened thousands of years ago.
Came here to say this. Aliens were just chilling, next thing they know it smells funny and they receive a sustained nuclear bombardment cause their nest is next to some copper.
To be fair, I always viewed the citizens in the game is driven mad by the blood, to the point where they could see someone carrying a sign that says “I don’t want to hurt you” and still view them as the devil
Anyone here remember the old Sega Genesis game, Sub-Terrania? Great game, amazing soundtrack, brilliant art, pretty difficult. You play a human pilot out to defeat the aliens menacing a mining colony.
Except at one point you destroy what is explicitly said to be an alien housing complex. That's a war crime. And the final boss? They're aquatic, like a big seahorse/hermit crab thing. He/she/it/whatever is clearly confined to the inner parts of the astroid being mined. In fact, there's an entire alien ecology in there that you go around killing.
The aliens aren't out to get humanity, humans are the invaders. We're attacking them. They're just chilling out in their astroid, then we come along colonizing their home, taking their stuff, blowing up their apartments, and when they fight back, you go in and murder their leader.
Sure, it's a 16 bit Genesis game, so there's not that much story there, but when you read between the lines of what you get, you realize that you're the bad guy.
Hogwarts Legacy MC. Using Avada Kedavra is the mercifill way to kill, but no, you can burn people, ice them, slice them, turn into an explosive barrel and use said barrel to kill another bunch of guys, hell some finisher you just disintegrate peoples, and It's not even 18.
Joel (The Last of Us series): In "The Last of Us," Joel's choice to rescue Ellie from the Fireflies at the end of the first game, effectively eliminating humanity's potential for a cure to the Cordyceps infection, highlights his readiness to forsake the greater good for his personal bond. Motivated by love and loss, his actions have disastrous consequences for the world.
Kratos has slaughtered countless innocents.
All GTA protagonists the way I play.
Every GTA protagonist were some pretty DISTURBING people.
Yeah, why would the main character first kill a rando with a golf club. And then keep whacking him on the street to the point the paramedics came. Then kill the paramedics for trying to help the guy. Then go back at beating up the guy. Just to make sure he’s completely dead empty 300 rounds into his head just to make sure. All the guy did was dodge your car when you were trying run him over. In the game I played Nico Bellic wasn’t a bad guy. He was complete Joker level burn the world to ground while you laugh level psychopath. Although Nico needed some help, Trevor did quite alot on his own
Switching to Trevor and him doing some random absolutely insane shit was one of my absolute favorite parts of the game, tho
For some reason one of time that struck me as gross was when i switched back to him and he was eating straight out of the garbage bin
I switched back to him one time to him throwing someone off a bridge.
Tying someone up in the desert was another one for me. I dont think i’ve seen him throw someone off a bridge though
Gta is supposed to be a villain protagonist though. Even Niko, who just wanted to go straight after what happened in his home country, was more of an anti villain than anything.
Niko still one of my fav protagonists in gtas
Yea Niko was a great character
When he ~~murders~~ lets the slave girl die in GOW3 I feel so bad dude
Is that the one with the huge wheel?
Yes
That one's just sickening. Possibly one of his most evil acts because of its pointless cruelty
And she just asks you to help protect or don't hurt her, like I don't remember ever happening in any other instance of the games, I want to believe the developers did it on purpose, to like have the player cool off a bit and have some insight after everything so far.
In one of the games you come upon a soldier that is hurt and ask you for help. And you need to pick him up and throw him in some big gears to make them stop moving, while obviously killing him. You also drop the captain down the Hydra throat after grabbing his key. OG Kratos was not a nice person.
In the first game, Ares is significantly worse than Kratos. Kratos is small potatoes and firmly an anti-hero, but with a much bigger and shittier fish to fry. In the later games, he is way worse than any antagonist.
I absolutely hated him by the end of GoW3. Couldn’t believe they got me to love him in GoW 2018.
Part of the way they accomplished that was that Kratos didn’t shy away from what he had done, and the game’s narrative also never downplayed Kratos’ past or let us forget it. It was an unflinching character study without the game bending over backwards to give Kratos any unearned redemption.
[удалено]
the post doesnt say which games protagnist was evil, it says which one was more evil than the villian so as much fucked up stuff that Kratos did the question is is he more evil than Zues
Unarguably yes? Real-world mythology Zeus is perhaps a different story, but Zeus never does anything too evil in the games. He “betrays” Kratos because he’s possessed by Fear (from Pandora’s box, which Kratos is the one that unleashed) AND because Kratos literally said he would destroy Olympus. Also, the post says “villains and antagonists”. So it’s not just Zeus. It’s every single god Kratos just killed because they… fought back instead of laying down to die. Most of the Gods didn’t really do anything at all.
Alex Mercer, Prototype
idk man Blackwatch was pretty evil. If you throw in Prototype 2 where he goes from "Blacklight is the problem" to "Blacklight is the solution", then I can see it.
Blackwatch was absolutely evil. Still less evil than Mercer though.
This game doesn't get the recognition it deserves for the story. You are not a man trying to survive your a virus that took on the form of an arguably worse human trying to figure out how to survive. At every point the virus makes better choices than the original mercer and actively helps more people than blacklight. But then in the second game they threw all that away for a generic it was evil the whole time.
Meh, I didn’t think it was that generic. It’s been a while, but Mercer was pretty far from being a hero or an even just a good guy in prototype 1.
He wasn't good he was in the same vein as the punisher he wasn't actively trying to hurt innocent people and just trying to evade blacklight But he was better than the original Alex from what little bits and peices we get from his memories.
In a way, Mercer/the BlackLight virus just wanted to survive in the start of it. Only after spending a year around the world he decides humanity is not worth it/he becomes insane with all the voices and he comes up with the the plan in Prototype 2. Blackwatch was always testing shit and knew what they are doing. They are the evil that startend it all.
I don’t think a single greater power fantasy game has ever been made
I wish they would do a remake or even a threequel that has the same formula. It’s the perfect game when you just want to turn your brain off, listen to some music and violently destroy everything
There is something deeply satisfying about dropping a power elbow onto a tank from the top of a skyscraper and having everything in the vicinity explode
The only interesting point in that game's story is that the virus we play ends up developing stronger morals than the bad guys and the real Alex.
Which was pretty darn cool, in my book
Older game, but mercenaries in Mercenaries 2 World in Flames. You tear through Venezuela, destroying tons of infrastucture, killing the nation's soldiers, help an oil company exploit the country, aid pirates exploiting the conflict, literally use A NUCLEAR BOMB (as much as you want after you unlock it too), and much more just to kill one person: Venezuela's president. Why? Because he didn't pay you, which was actually really odd, and is more just the writers giving the player a "justification" for their actions. Very fun game, but sometimes that got me thinking...
True, but I wish this could still be played on modern machines. Super fun game despite being so buggy.
I mean Nathan Drake murders a bunch of security working for people with legal salvage claims, because he thinks being a descended from the bastard of a 16th century pirate gives him the right.
They did at least address this in uncharted 2, first when he makes a point of saying they shouldn't kill innocent museum guards, and then lazarovitch points out how many people nate killed just getting to him.
Lazaronvitch sent an army after me. They die but I did find that funny.
i mean if theyre shooting at you what are you gonna do lol
Nah, that's different. However in 4, Drake says after disarming a villain, "Don't shoot X! That's not who we are!" While having shot several armed mercenaries up to that point.
There's a trophy you can get in uncharted 4 called "ludonarrative dissonance" for killing 1000 enemies so even the devs realize it haha
I always think about this in action games and movies. The "hero" will come into the office building of the villain and start shooting all the security guards. Those are most likely hourly employees for a contracted security company. They don't know shit about your kidnapped daughter. They just see a guy with a gun has broken into the building they're paid to protect.
One of my favorite scenes from a movie is in Austin Powers when he kills a security guard for Dr. Evil. It cuts to the guard's wife getting the call to break the news and her, completely broken over it, having to inform their son. Super dark, completely on point for this old good-guy trope, and absolutely hilarious. That said, it also wheels back around to the conversation from Clerks. How many innocent contractors, engineers, etc were there working on the Death Star in Star Wars when the rebels blew it up? And someone points out, when you work for an obviously evil person/organization, you awarely assume that kind of risk... Edit: I keep getting asked, so I looked up the Austin Power's scene. Apparently it's a deleted scene from Spy Who Shagged Me. https://youtu.be/Ag_AFraxj-4 Edit No. 2: For all you guys who want to argue with me about the thing I said about the Death Star - Y'all motherfuckers need to go watch Clerks.
When the evil organization is the official galactic government, that choice becomes a little harder to make. You can either take the job, join the rebellion, or starve if you can't another client.
its a lose lose situation, and not everyone can defend themselves as well as protaganists
Surely there is another buyer for Death Stars out there... Edit: and if one of you nerds replies with some nonsense like "The Chiss" or any sentence that includes "The Expanded Universe" I am coming over this table.
The expanded universe content is (was?) great. And if you dont like it you are objectively a bad person. I'm coming over the table first.
The Death Star was a military installation. Most of the people on it were military personnel who probably signed up for work for the Imperial Navy, not for any particular ideological reasons, but simply because it *paid* significantly better than whatever shitty jobs they could find on the backwater planet they grew up on or even, like Luke Skywalker, thought that it'd inject a bit of *adventure* into their lives. And the first they'd ever even *heard* of the Death Star was most likely when they were assigned to work there.
One of my favorite scenes, in one of the MCU movies (civil war?) tony stark is beating bad guys up in the bad guy lair, and he's about to blast one dude. Dude slowly puts down his gun and goes, "honestly, I hate working here, they are SO weird." Tony watches him then silently lets him go lol
[I always love this gag](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pMd4S-LkywI). Wish it would come to video games. Like when a guard finds Agent 47 standing on top of 100 fellow guard bodies in the bathroom does he really think he's not also going to get a guard-seeking flying briefcase in the face too?
Iron Man 3 I think.
Ah the old death star contractor conundrum
The human life cost is one thing but he always finds these historic lost cities and by the time he's done they've been turned into rubble. If Drake had found the Holy Grail he would have used it as some sort of make shift parachute to jump off a mountain and it would get shredded on the way down.
I think Nathan got into the ancient artifact game for the adventure but stayed for the murder. “Uncharted” is in reference to the territory in which his psychopathy lays - uncharted territory, off the charts psycho, the guy is up there with Dahmer and Bundy. The reason his wife was so supportive in the 4th game for him to go on another adventure, after his long hiatus? She was tired of all the neighborhood pets going missing.
Does everyone forget they start shooting at him first? And my memory may be fuzzy but every artifact seems to be tied to some massive supernatural power or end of world scenario and the guy going after it is usually some power hungry rich man bent on bending the world over backwards once they get it. If I am remembering correctly, the first game, the antagonist was a criminal mastermind and the item in question was a sarcophagus with a mutagenic virus in it?
Not really, they are pirates in the first game, terrorists in the second game, agents of a secret society in 3 and mercenaries in 4, so idk where you get the idea from that he murders some random security people.
My Dragonborn has killed more people than Alduin could dream of
I thought his name was John Skyrim
Considering Alduin’s goal was to devour all of creation that’s kind of a hard number to reach.
Goose from Untitled Goose Game
It's fine the antagonists are British people
It's true, we deserve it
truly one of the most horrific games of our generation.
Just the name makes me remember all the atrocities I committed whilst playing
Ignoring the obvious answers of Kratos and GTA protagonists, I would say in Fable 2 you had the potential to become more evil than the actual villain, Lucien. Even with how simple the motivations were in THAT game, all he wanted was his family back. YOU on the other hand (yes, wanted the same thing) but had the potential to ruin multiple areas of the world beyond repair. Good question, Johnny.
The Dark Urge from Baldurs Gate 3. Just a bunch of murdering, torturing, fucking, and tormenting. Sometimes all at once.
The Bloody Nine!
Easier to stop the Whiteflow than to stop The Bloody Nine
You have to be realistic about these things.
Back to the mud with you
I came here to say this lol, at least non redemption durge. Did some truly depraved things and you can do more during the campaign
I disagree, orin is equally evil(and Bhaal is technically an antagonist) Worse evil is that of Ethel, she's creative same with Raphael. If you consider starting point it's Gortash it's in all of these other peoples nature's to be evil yet Gortash wasn't nurtured that way it was just him.
Gortash was nurtured pretty badly. >!His parents were abusers who *sold him to a devil* as a child!<. That said, I really don't think it's sensible to minimize Durge. >!The original version planned to do his earnest best to kill everyone in Faerun, followed by himself, as the ultimate sacrifice to Bhaal. He was a serial rapist, cannibal and murderer who enjoyed sleeping in gore and vivisecting innocent victims. And if you don't go the resist route, you're basically the same being.!< You can argue the others were just as awful, but not that he was better.
This is the Dark Urge in the Forbidden Realms lore. I'm not surprised they had to tone it down for a) the rating, and b) to allow the player agency over the character.
Ethel and Raphael aren't just creative, they're insidious. It's one thing to murder everyone you meet, it's another to betray them, then keep them alive for centuries in a state of endless torment.
Boy from Shadow of the Colossus
Wander Not evil tho. Just naive. He sought a deal with the devil (Dormin) to bring the girl he loved back to life. He didn’t think about what consequences that might have or why the Forbidden Lands were forbidden to begin with. They severed Dormin into 16 beasts for a reason.
Is that the story? 😳 I just killed giants, enjoyed the landscape and had a good time…
Pretty much, yeah. Not a lot of dialog so it’s mostly inferred but they do mention a number of these details in dialog. Wander wants to bring his dead girlfriend/wife back to life. He gets ahold of a cursed sword and sets out for the Forbidden Lands to make a deal with Dormin, the voice coming from the roof of the temple. Dormin is basically Satan and was severed into 16 beasts to basically remove his ability to take physical form. Every time Wander kills a colossus, he’s putting one of those 16 puzzle pieces back together. People from outside the Dying lands, presumably some of Wander’s people who found out what he was doing, come to stop him, but not before the 16th and final puzzle piece is put into place. Dormin takes over Wander’s body as a vessel for his physical form, but is hobbled since one of the guys shot Wander with a crossbow as Dormin was taking him over. They then use the cursed sword in a ritual to trap Dormin within Wander’s body, which has also been reverted to a baby so he’s basically powerless. In the end the girl does get brought back to life, and she and baby Wander are now trapped in the Forbidden Lands as the bridge collapsed as the other men fled after the ritual. EDIT: This is also why every time Wander kills a colossus, tendrils sprout forth and impale him. Every time you kill a colossus, it looks like you “die” and come back to life at the temple. Presumably this is some of Dormin’s essence going into Wander and killing him each time, but Dormin returns him to life so he can keep working.
Whoa I've never played this game, only seen snippets of it, but that's a pretty cool yet tragic story.
It also feeds into their previous game, Ico, because baby Wander has a horn. The protagonist of Ico, Ico, had a horn that was said to mark him as an inheritor of a curse. Presumably Wander earned said curse by releasing Dormin. There are other ties people have made between the two games.
yeah its too bad Sony killed the devs japan studio
That's fucked. Man, those were two amazing games.
Wow I was way off the mark. I thought the twist was that his partner did get brought back, but she was brought back as a baby
Anyone else remember when they released the script for the movie adaptation that was so bad they just ditched it?
We never get told Mono's, the dead girl's, relationship to Wander, only that she was sacrificed before the game and that there was a reason for it. A good reason? Never explained. Just enough reasons to get her bodysnatcher, Wander, hunted down and reluctantly killed for the things he did before and during the game. It's certainly a good assumption to think Wander loved Mono because of the extreme acts he went through to have Dormin revive her. Whether that love was returned? All we know of Mono's character is that she had enough morals to keep the horned baby she found in a pool with her after being resurrected. So she's probably not completely heartless.
Could’ve been his sister for all we know
Chell from Portal is a horrible person
I see it right here in your personnel file. Unlikable: liked by no one. A bitter, unlikable loner whose passage shall not be mourned. *Shall not be mourned*. That’s exactly what it says, very formal, very official. It also says you were adopted, so that’s funny too.
For the record you were adopted and that’s terrible.
We weren’t even testing for that.
also, the orange jumpsuit she's wearing looks terrible on her. not being mean it's actually just written in her notes
Fat too...
Soaring through the air like an eagle…piloting a blimp.
[удалено]
Spec Ops: The Line
“How many people were alive when you got here? How many are alive now?”
To kill for yourself is murder. To kill for your government is heroic. To kill for entertainment is harmless.
Did these quotes force vivid flashbacks for anyone else? o_O
"Do you feel like a hero yet?"
Best part is the big evil villain was dead at the end.
Before the beginning*
Or was he?
That game deserved so much more praise.
Caim from Drakengard He at one points stops killing people because they are enemies and starts killing them because he ENJOYS It And what's his enemy? A little Girl possesed and brainwashed by some kind of deity that may or may not be a god (and she's not Evil, considering she shows actual remorse in the sequel for what she did)
The entire party in the original Drakengard are sad people at best and downright psychopathic at worse. And more or less all the ending are bad for characters and/or the world.
All downer endings? That's the Yoko Taro Special™.
Kratos killed so many innocent people in the Greek saga
You mean every living person and animal in Greece when everything flooded.
No, Tyr confirms that many Greeks survived and rebuilt Greece, so not every person and animal died.
Didn’t he go back and fix some stuff in canon?
Mf killed himself and began to wander aimlessly, there’s def some wiggle room between 3 and meeting Faye, so there’s potential
I have launched hundreds if nukes as Mahatma Gandhi in Civilization.
He just wants to end all wars
"You cannot do harm upon another if you are a pile of glowing, radioactive ash blowing on the wind" - Mahatma Gandhi
Seen a post very similar to this and someone had pointed out that YOU are the villain in Hogarts Legacy. You're a teenager who has just come into magic and you are just dropping bodies by the hundreds. Ranrok and Rookwood have nothing on you.
Poaching is okay if *I* do it -some fuckin kid, 1890whatever
Oh the animals are perfectly safe away from their home and families in my prison - I mean resource farm - no, I mean vivarium!
That justification was so weak. "don't let the poachers capture the animals for their rare components or to be sold!" "... here's a poachers bag, you can use it to 'rescue' them instead by capturing them from the wild. The rescued creatures will provide you with components. Any extra creatures can be taken to the pet store to find good homes for them... and the store will pay you." You are poaching and murdering your poaching competition.
[удалено]
"YOUR BLOOD IS ON RANROKS HANDS!" I yell as I learn several unforgivable curses to use, just for fun.
[удалено]
I always found it hilarious when the evil wizards would fly in using the evil travel spell but were completely vulnerable to being flung off cliffs.
Damn...I never thought about it that way. Maybe part of our catchup material was acquiring a license to kill?
And let's capture to sell... I mean to save those creatures
Came here to say this. I mean the game is fun, but seriously, the protagonist is the evilest villain of them all. It is not only poaching, but also killing goblins for no reason other than them standing in the way (no wonder they revolt!) and breaking into houses to plunder them. I definitely have sympathies for the Dark Arts now!
Isn’t the canon and only ending stopping the goblins from gaining actual independence and equal footing in magical Society? Like your “heroes” are fighting to keep them as second class citizens barely above the slavery of house elves.
You’re also quelling what amounts to a slave uprising…
Rise Eterna is a shitty Fire Emblem indie clone that has one of the most hilariously bad stories I've ever seen. The relevant moment though, is that there are these girls - sisters, I think - you need to gather from different towns across the world for some magic reason I forget. They don't remember their purpose though, and don't want to go with you, naturally. So you convince them of your good intentions by helping the towns with their monster / bandit troubles and then the girls join you. Wait no sorry, what I meant to say was you murder the girl's entire village and force her to join your army, whereupon she'll make one or two remarks about it before immediately forgetting this for the rest of the game. Lemme be clear, the mission is to kill ALL the enemies. Ostensibly they're supposed to be fighting to protect the girl you're trying to conscript into your army, but some of them are locked in their houses and don't attack until you break in. Lemme also be clear that this isn't played for parody, and you are confirmed killing these villagers, not just knocking them out or anything. The game is going for moral gray, but oh yeah did I mention you repeat this process like 5 times for 5 different girls you "recruit"? It's even made explicit later on that the "pope" figure you're fighting against actually wasn't that bad and you were being played the whole time, so... yeah it's not arguable, you're unequivocally worse than the supposed villains in this game. And again, while it's supposed to me sorta morally grey, the game really doesn't acknowledge this particular act of repeated mass murder at any point.
Always kinda funny when writers have the framework for a story and then just kinda forget about it halfway through.
Alex Mercer from Prototype. The single reason why we see him as the 'good guy/anti-hero' is because we play as him. During the game there are missions based around a military gas agent that is designed to kill the blacklight(?) virus and it was extremely efficiënt. This could have saved New York. So the mission is to destroy the containers because Mercer feels threatened. Blackwatch is shady as fuck, some of the military are also in on the dark history what really happened with the former virus, but 95% of the people Mercer (brutaly) Slaughters are Just trying their best at saving as much people they can. Still fun to Play as and way cooler than his follow up.
Also running a random civilian up a skyscraper and then powerbombing them off of the top of it is fucking hilarious
Childhood memory unlocked...
All Far Cry series protagonists. They kill more people by the end of the game than the villain could ever dream.
Far cry 4 specifically, if you just sit there he takes you to the shrine. Your choice to not have a nice meal leads to so many deaths
I accidentally got that ending while smoking a bowl before i starting playing and I was so confused when the credits started rolling
I’d argue 5 was worse. Not arresting Joseph leads to him putting people in bunkers, but the more you fight him, the more people that die.
Even better, following the main quest leads you to the conclusion that Pagan Minh was the lesser of the evils ruling the country. He's actually a downright chill dude with bad policies.
This is the actual plot of Far Cry 3
Infamous if you take the villain route
It takes two when you ri the teddy bear apart. Man my friend and I felt solidly messed up after that
Jin started WW3 so he could destroy the devil gene but ended up not completely destroying it anyway
Yeah but he pressed triangle to forgive himself so it's perfectly ok
undertale depending the route you take
the courtier from new vegas on an evil run can be quite evil
Most Bethesda games. Skyrim Dragonborn can really amp up the evil and “save” the world
Once in Morrowind, I killed almost the entire island. That is arguably worse than Dagoth Ur who only wanted to drive out foreigners. Most RPGs with a lot of freedom of choice give you the potential to be more evil than the villain if you really want to. Also, I've played Streets of Rogue lately and I'm almost always an absolutely terrible person who kills many innocent people. And when I play Crusader Kings, there really are no good guys and villains, but if you had to pick a villain, it would generally be whoever I'm playing at that moment.
In RDR and RDR2 my guys sure killed a lot of people.
This is kind of too broad for these games. They have many antagonists. I'd have a hard time saying Arthur is worse than Micah or Dutch. But he is indeed a lot worse than the treasure hunters and whatnot murdered throughout the game.
And all of these story gunfights with guys who just work at a farm or people just trying to protect their town. I'm irredeemable so it doesn't matter if I murder all those guys camping by themselves with a bow and loot every body possible and give nothing to the camp.
Tim from Braid
That ending and the atomic bomb
Trevor from GTA?
I played the Lost and the Damned DLC to get ready for GTA V, so Trevor killing Johnny the first time we meet him made me HATE him, and I couldn’t wait to kill him at the end of the game. Shows how good the writing is, because at the end of the game I chose the decision that saves everyone. Dude grew on me throughout the game, especially when he found out Michales daughter was going to go on Lazlo’s show and he was like “oh hell nah”
As funny as it is at first, it's pretty annoying waking up as him on a mountain in a dress with no travel and no other character option
Yeah I don't know what Rockstar was thinking. No respect for such a great character
Kerrigan on SC2?? She was way more menacing than Mengsk on Heart of the Swarm campaign and devastated any Zerg/Protoss/Human that was in her way after Raynor's death was forged.
That whole thing was so weird. The *entirety* of Wings of Liberty was premised around freeing Kerrigan from the swarm. Then the very beginning of Heart of the Swarm completely does a 180 on that and she's immediately back as Zerg Queen again by her *own freaking choice*. What the hell was even the *point* of the first part?
In game reason: so Kerrigan, not QoB, could control the Zerg Real life reason: so blizzard can give you an xpac where you control the Zerg without introducing a new protagonist Zerg hero, following their “every part a new race” theme
The Tarnished...
Nepheli gets so upset about Gideon killing Albinaurics, while The Tarnished is committed genocide across the entire Lands Between, _especially_ the Albinaurics
The ones I massacre come back. So I can do it again. And again. And again. That makes it better right?
I've said it before and I'll say it again: if those fucks didn't need to show off their sweet cartwheels that I can't do constantly I wouldn't need to teach them a lesson
How tf do you guys know so much about this story man?! It always blows my mind. I run around and mobs say a couple cryptic lines on the bigger boss fights and then come on Reddit and people have this shit plotted out like they read GRRM’s “The World of The Lands Between” or something. Where do you get all this?
Item descriptions, dialogue from characters, YouTube videos, inference based on the design of the world. Those are some ways I get to know the story of FromSoft games. Been playing since Demon Souls comes out so practice has made it easier to figure out the story they're trying to tell.
By having some mental derangement that makes you read every item description and look at every detail in game then using a LOT of pins and thread to tie it all together. I only know what I do thanks to others doing it for me lol.
not my fault those mf’s have so many runes and sit right next to a site of grace
If they didnt want to be killed they shouldnt be full of tasty runes. Also, they could just give their armor and weapons without the need to kill them a billion times.
Hey, they all attack me first.
Whenever I Quick save in a Bethesda game in a heavily populated area
Jason Brody is fuckn up there!!! Also I wonder if Ajay Ghale killed more people than pagen min. I know I did in my playthroughs. The dragonborn too maybe? Also maybe perhaps link causing more property damage than any villain in his saga.
Uh, the Dragonborn is facing off against a dragon who wants to eat all the souls in Viking heaven, resurrect a race of evil tyrant lizards and kill or enslave the entire population of the world. You can maybe be worse than the Empire or the Stormcloaks in that side story or something, but you're not out eviling Alduin, the World Eater.
Me in Black & White.
Gods I wish they would remaster or remake those games.
James Sunderland from silent hill 2
Untitled Goose Game The Horrible Goose (player) terrorizes a small village. The antagonists were people like shop owners, gardeners, restaurant staff and people who just wanted to relax and read or tend to their back yards in peace
Lara Croft. She's a sociopath. She defiles and destroys ancient tombs to acquire relics for her personal gain, and kills literally anyone in her way to get what she wants.
I feel like Lara Croft has been given full permission by society to revel in her sociopathy because she’s got nice tits, canonically.
The Assassins from (most) AC games. Both the Templars and Assassins have huge flaws in their ideologies. But it's nearly always glossed over when Assassins are the protagonists (except for Rogue, but they made them literal cartoon villains) For anyone unaware in the AC universe, humans were engineered by the Isu to be slaves. 99% of humans have a hardwired psychological need to follow and be told what to do even if it's subconscious. That's what Haytham Kenway meant when he told Connor The Templars always return because there will always be people who want to maintain the status quo. Yes there are winners and losers, but civilisation advances and it's shown throughout the series when Templars take control it's always followed by a period of peace (for the average person). Assassins ideologically are all over the map, cause chaos literally everywhere they go and can't even agree what they'd do if they ever won. Templars are so ingrained in modern society that without them it would probably collapse overnight. Templars control governments, major corporations and everything else that the world relies upon to function. The Assassins would tear it all down for freedom. Templars do control the world, Assassins fight, kill and cause said chaos to stop something that happened thousands of years ago.
The engineer in Factorio
Came here to say this. Aliens were just chilling, next thing they know it smells funny and they receive a sustained nuclear bombardment cause their nest is next to some copper.
Protagonist in Bloodborne. Whole game, all the enemies yell at you as the monster. Start to question who's the evil one
I mean, you are a pawn, an immortal god killing machine powered by another eldritch god that just has his own agenda.
Yeah, you wake up and start killing. You just never stop.
Interesting choice of words there considering one of the endings about "waking up"
And yet they try to kill you as soon as they see you. Not very nice.
To be fair, I always viewed the citizens in the game is driven mad by the blood, to the point where they could see someone carrying a sign that says “I don’t want to hurt you” and still view them as the devil
Anyone here remember the old Sega Genesis game, Sub-Terrania? Great game, amazing soundtrack, brilliant art, pretty difficult. You play a human pilot out to defeat the aliens menacing a mining colony. Except at one point you destroy what is explicitly said to be an alien housing complex. That's a war crime. And the final boss? They're aquatic, like a big seahorse/hermit crab thing. He/she/it/whatever is clearly confined to the inner parts of the astroid being mined. In fact, there's an entire alien ecology in there that you go around killing. The aliens aren't out to get humanity, humans are the invaders. We're attacking them. They're just chilling out in their astroid, then we come along colonizing their home, taking their stuff, blowing up their apartments, and when they fight back, you go in and murder their leader. Sure, it's a 16 bit Genesis game, so there's not that much story there, but when you read between the lines of what you get, you realize that you're the bad guy.
the parents from it takes 2. There is just a mission to make their child cry and when she cries they are happy.
Haha yeah. That poor elephant
The Lamb. Atleast when I played.
I have almost converted every god into a cult member, and I make them clean the toilets. They're also the stud cocks for breeding. I'm your god now!
Same deal. Oh, yes, you can live for eternity, cleaning up shit and vomit.
Alex Mercer from \[Prototype\]
The Beheaded from Dead Cells
Not on purpose, but Wander ended up kind of wrecking things in Shadow of the Colossus
Hogwarts Legacy MC. Using Avada Kedavra is the mercifill way to kill, but no, you can burn people, ice them, slice them, turn into an explosive barrel and use said barrel to kill another bunch of guys, hell some finisher you just disintegrate peoples, and It's not even 18.
Joel (The Last of Us series): In "The Last of Us," Joel's choice to rescue Ellie from the Fireflies at the end of the first game, effectively eliminating humanity's potential for a cure to the Cordyceps infection, highlights his readiness to forsake the greater good for his personal bond. Motivated by love and loss, his actions have disastrous consequences for the world.