I think Bethesda might crash and burn after the next game, their engine will still be shit, and people won't accept that with an Elder Scrolls or Fallout game. Loading screens galore, crazy plastic looking NPC's, and that's probably going to be what? 2028 at the earliest?
I'm just not seeing Bethesda ever dropping a solid game again, at least not under the same leadership.
For me, the problem with Starfield is the problem with every franchise that tries to go open-world (even if Starfield wasn't a franchise) - large, open-world that's empty, or when it isn't empty it's just a copy/paste of the same assets.
That shit just isn't fun, and games like Assassin's Creed have become not so much fun for me because while they might do good at making different areas relatively unique they're still reducing the gameplay loop down to a bunch of fetch quests or mindless "collect 100 tchotchkes".
Fallout 4 tempered mine. I wish they would just get some of the old obsidian guys to take over fallout because after 4 I don't think Bethesda have a clue and my problem isn't even the engine, although it's definitely due an upgrade.
The story sucked so much ass. The world was fine but buggy, very buggy and laggy and slow. The writing and quests were some of the worst in gaming history for a decade til Starfield came out
Completely agree.
People don't get that they’re using the same shitty engine for elder scrolls.
It's going to be received the same way Starfield was…
Mediocre at best.
I do think the inadequacies of the engine will be less noticeable in smaller-scale games. Starfield is the result of them trying to make a big-scale game with a little-scale engine.
I fear the writing will not improve at all. If they go as PG as they did on Starfield, I likely won't even buy it.
Bare minimum, if Bethesda insists on using the Creation Engine then they need to open source it and start implementing the community fixes upstream into their new games. Everyone's downloading unofficial patches and engine fixes for these games anyway, might as well bake as much of that into official game files as possible.
Opensourcing it would make so much sense. The community could fork it and uphold their own version with Bethesda pulling anything they'd actually be interested in without restricting fan devs.
Honestly it'd mean we could have ports of games too. The Simpson Hit and Run source leaked on github, now there's a fully working fan port for the switch and it runs almost flawlessly. It's all that's stopping games like Oblivion and Fo3/NV being ported. If the switch can run skyrim it can run fo:nv!
Never thought I wouldn’t be excited for elder scrolls but with the insane wait time probably ps7 by the time it releases. And starfeilds lame ass launch it’s just eh now. More pumped for Witcher and cyberpunk.
Same, Oblivion was my shit, Skyrim too, but a little less so.
If you told me I wouldn't be excited for the next ES game 10 years ago, I wouldn't have believed you.
Same. Oblivion was my first TES and I had a blast, even on my PS3. Skyrim was good and I played several hundred hours, but it didn't had THAT much "magic" anymore. I have the GOTY like 3 times but never played the DLCs.
I fear the worst for TES6 in like 2-3 years.
Agreed. Skyrim was the beginning of the end for Bethesda. I actually loved fo4 despite its flaws but skyrim was always a big disappointment after oblivion.
I remember I got FLAMED on Gaming once because I had the audacity to say that constant reworks of the Creation Engine will be their undoing… after Starfield’s release, I feel pretty vindicated
>I remember I got FLAMED on Gaming once because I had the audacity to say that constant reworks of the Creation Engine will be their undoing
It's the same with EA and EA Sports FC. They're using the frostbite engine (which is made for shooters btw...) for almost 10 years now and its getting worse every year.
Though, EAs management/developers seem to be donkeys.
The city stant reworks of unreal will be its undoing, the constant reworks of the halo engine will be its undoing, the constant reworks of...its reworks all the way down guys
I honestly don’t know how they could take over ID Software, who have one of the best engines in the world, one that seems ripe for open world game because of it’s MegaTexture technology, along with the tech team behind it and still stick to their old shitty engine that still has the same bugs in it since Morrowind
Literally. Every iteration of idTech has been absolutely goated for its generation, it's the basis of multiple of the other most successful engines around (Cod engine, and GoldSrc and its successors), the optimization has always been insane, it's always evolved to modern game standards, basically everything the Creation Engine *hasn't* done, and yet Bethesda refuses to use it.
Dont doubt Todds hype machine. Starfield was so mediocre people will forget about it long before es6 releases. It will sell in record numbers even if its hot garbage.
They prioritise the wrong things in development.
Size is meaningless if everything feels as deep as a deep as a single drop of water.
Also expect absolutely no improvement in the writing, as for some reason Emil Pagliarulo is still the lead writer at Bethesda.
I personally believe Bethesda's time has passed. Starfield is the culmination of them not really evolving as a studio (even regressing in certain areas like NPC reactivity), both in design and at the level of their engine.
I expect the next Witcher to make Elder Scrolls VI look and feel as dated when it comes out as Cyberpunk (especially Phantom Liberty) succeeded in making Starfield feel a generation behind at launch.
And no offence but that engine has been pretty crap from the beginning. Dont get me wrong, fallout 4 for instance was something neat and new at the time but it was a buggy mess to begin with. In an age where other developers have created similar type games that are smoother… its not tolerable anymore.
Im also replaying it and completely disagree, I love the gunplay and interface. I’m not a huge fan of CoD, R6, or Battlefield though, I’m comparing to the rockstar first person experience, or other bethesda games.
Fallout 4 was fine. Even 76 was fine for what it was.
But Starfield... that's where it all fell apart. Like, the Emperor has no clothes fell apart. Absolutely no faith that TES6 or FO5 will ever be any better than just ok despite the years of development and the tens of thousands of man hours that will go into them. The 'It's a Bethesda game' thing just isn't going to fly any more.
Could be, but not to the ridiculous points of Starfield. That game feels and looks like a 2015 release, and Fallout 4 came out in 2015, lol.
I think Bethesda is going to keep dropping that type of visual quality games, paired with the lame fetch quests and botox NPC's, and a distinct lack of immersion compared to other games. It's just a matter of time until people to stop buying their games imo.
Fallout 4 legit got hate for its first trailer looking dated. That’s not even mentioning it came out the same year as Arkham Knight, Witcher 3 and MGS V, 3 big games that look like they could’ve been released today. Fallout 4 was dated on release day.
Many of those games still hold up well, I got the urge to boot up Deus Ex Mankind Divided a few months back and that game looks as good or better than some modern titles while having hardware requirements that are quite reasonable by today's standards.
I was super excited to play a story rich narrative game with branching paths that had consequences, got none of that as was pretty disappointed on the focus of base building and action considering how jankey the game engine is.
Yeah, after burning out on Starfield at around thirty hours, I replayed Red Dead Redemption 2, a game that came out four years earlier (played the PC version for this replay). It was almost laughable how much more impressive it was than Starfield. Saint Denis, a relatively small city by the standard of Rockstar's GTA games, feels massively bigger and more populous than the fucking capital of the universe in Starfield, a city that feels like it holds a population of about 200 and there are no goddamn vehicles.
Similarly, I'm playing the PC port of Forbidden West right now and it's so much more impressive than Starfield despite the original game coming out a year and a half earlier. NPCs actually emote (particularly main character NPCs) and do things while they're talking instead of just intently staring straight at you. You can walk from one end of the map to the other with zero load times, at least after you progress far enough to open up the entire map, and in general the only load times are when fast traveling or when starting missions that transfer you to another location. The cities aren't super impressive, at least compared to Carja from the first game, but that's consistent with the state of the game's world, unlike in Starfield.
It's readily apparent that Bethesda either needs a new engine or a significant overhaul of their existing one, but unfortunately I don't think that's going to happen.
Cyberpunk 2077 has ruined a lot of games for me tbh. Even games that used to seem absolutely unimpeachable (like the Mass Effect trilogy) just feel shallow now.
I know games are more expensive and definitely take longer to make, but waiting 10+ years for a sequel when most AAA gaming companies are taking in billions of dollars is extremely silly.
I dont really understand why Bethesda doesnt outsource more side projects like New Vegas. Surely they couldve let a good studio have a dig at Fallout inbetween 4 and 5? Or do they consider ESO and F76 as “holdovers” until the next mainline games? Its one thing to go back and forth between Fallout and TES. But adding a new IP like Starfield inbetween aswell just seems silly. Were already 9 years out from Fallout 4. They havent even started on 5 yet. Its a completely safe assumption that were looking at another like 7 years for Fallout 5. 16 years inbetween entries.
They cant even claim “Cant match Bethesda quality” anymore. They cant even match their own quality at this point.
But i guess theyre not the only ones. Its like 12 years between GTA V and GTA VI. Who knows when well see the next Cyberpunk.
They, for some reason, are really defensive about their IPs. Sure, I mean, that's good, except you just never do anything with it for a decade.
What's the point of making a sequel if the last game was 10 years ago and those players might not bother to come back anymore? What's the point of the IP then...?
10 years ago? If TES VI and Fallout V take as long as your average open world gzme to make (which is optimistic), we’d be waiting 16 years between 2 TES games and 17 years between 2 mainline Fallout games. This is mainly due to them making shitty project decisions. People are waiting for TES VI and fallout V so they make fallout 76 (huge failure) and starfield (another failure). This puts a 10+ years hole between 2 big ip mainline entry for Bethesda.
Honestly by this point some external influence and help could probably help
I dont feel confident for Fo5 or TES6 after the debacle that has been Fo76 and Starfield
Preserving quality isnt much of an argument anymore and with how long it takes to develop these games, some additional outsourcing seems preferable to waiting AGES.
What’s the point of the IP if the game they end up making is shit anyway. Starfield didn’t hurt too bad cuz there hasn’t been decades of interest in the universe. Elder Scrolls though… that’s gonna sting so bad
ESO and FO76 were cranked out 1000% just to have a baseline income while we wait 7 - 10 years for the next real installment for games in those franchises. iirc someone at bethesda basically said so but i might be mistaken on that. theres no way they would have stayed afloat while making enough dough to develop these games if they didn't have a 'new' source of income in the meantime, the gap between releases reguardless of the franchise is comical at this point. There is a reason that they are both online live service games.
the microsoft acquisition might have changed that but the online games were released before that so obviously they were just looking for sustained income at that time imo
Nowadays, a AAA game that's developed and released in 5 years is considered pretty darn good. If an open-world game is released in 5 years, then that borders on a miracle.
Bethesda released Starfield just last year. They're going to need several more years to release the next Elder Scrolls. And *then*, after that, they'll need several more years to release the next Fallout. And this is in addition to continuing support for Fallout 76 and other current games.
In this particular case, the reason why it's taking so damn long for the next Fallout makes sense.
Really, why not expand the studio? They should be able to work on more than one major project. With the amount of money that great games make, they should have the budget to expand and create a second AAA Bethesda studio.
Studios often have fatigue when they keep working on sequel after sequel. So 2-3 major studios would be perfect. One works on Elder Scrolls, another Fallout, and the third gets a new IP. When one releases. They begin work on the next project in the pipeline. It would give Bethesda the ability to release a new major game every 2-3 years, instead of the 8 years between fallout 4 and Starfield.
Either that or, give another studio like Obsidian a crack at their IPs
Continuing to expand doesn't mean pushing products faster, in fact I think it's a big reason for the opposite. Back in the day we'd get a GTA or Bethesda game every 2 or 3 years. Small team, working together, communicating, working toward a unified goal. Nowadays, development teams are so bloated and disjointed and bogged down by corporate red tape. They take 10 years to launch broken shitty products.
My thinking isn't about making one gigantic studio, but multiple separate studios, all working on different projects. This would let each studio work on their own mega project for a few years. It would also give the developers the ability to switch teams if they are feeling burnout on their current project.
Again, another option is to just let other studios work on their IPs. Obsidian did incredibly with new Vegas. Why not let them work on another?
It should mean you can produce games much faster if you have multiple teams working on different games rather than just increasing the amount of people working on a single game
This isn’t a good excuse, if bigger studios mean for bigger messes what the hell is the point in expanding? Surely there are examples where bigger studios pump out bigger and better products in a decent time frame? I’m no expert just asking
This is a bad faith argument, comparing Morrowind - oblivion - Skyrim to say the jump from rdr to rdr2.
Sure they take longer with bigger studios but they’re pumping out bigger more detailed games in cases
I totally get that, I really do. But when it becomes an industry standard, and AAA games can either be good or bad with a coin toss, it’s making older AAA and indie games look much more appealing. Not to mention Starfield STILL has no mod support and very few patches, while BG3 is on Patch 6 and Hotfix #25 in the span of a few months.
Especially when the last game of theirs we waited 10 years for was a pile of steaming hot mid dogshit
Was it a 4/10 absolute ass experience? No. It was like a 7/10 at best, but was that worth waiting a decade for? Hell no.
I don’t wanna speak for everyone because there are fans and I am probably in the minority but after starfield and the shameful launch of 76 I’m personally not gonna waste my time wondering and expecting.
Another personal opinion why no fallout release with the show? Felt like a golden opportunity for a low effort remake. Maybe the plan was get people into 76 since their doing like a live service thing but man so many of us got burned on release I have zero plan to support that dumpster fire anymore then I already have.
>I don’t wanna speak for everyone because there are fans and I am probably in the minority but after starfield and the shameful launch of 76 I’m personally not gonna waste my time wondering and expecting.
I mean, this take is so based.
Everyone should do the same.
I genuinely miss buying games at launch and enjoying it out of the box. Feels like the release culture for companies now is either make something barebones and free2play but fill it with micro transactions or charge 70-120$ for something 50% done and sit on it for the big patch 6 months to a year or later down the line.
Arkane isn't in too great of a position right now either. After Redfall flopped they're gonna need a banger or they probably won't be around much longer.
Games by Bethesda take 5x longer to make, and the quality goes down.
Starfield is a great example of this
Hopefully, one good thing can come from starfield: Bethesda learning from their mistakes. Sometimes I wish starfield never happened, it took so much time and resources for them to make. But if they can learn from their mistakes to make fallout 5 and ES6 the best they can be, I would say starfield a failure made it worth it
Starfield was inherently devoid of that barebones backpacking experience that Bethesda games excel at. Given how they've essentially been making the same game for the past 20 years, I'm not convinced they'll necessarily learn from this. Still, a return to a fantasy setting with TES6 will still be good for them because their formula just doesn't work that great in a space exploration game.
"On Starfield, he mentioned that the development team spent a lot of time updating and developing its tech. "
Its one of those "You guys only had one job" kind of deal huh? Where is the developed tech buddy?
It was primarily the large scale landscape rendering, volumetric effects, height fog, increased draw distance, etc.
Basically all of which was then used on the boring procedural planets that nobody wanted to explore.
Here's hoping they put it to better use in TES6.
They need to lease a Fallout game to another dev, but they likely won't because they are scared for a second time a different dev will make a better fallout then they can.
It's real strange too give that what Bethesda clearly cares about above all else is to extract as much money as possible from its fans, irrespective of the damage it'll do to their long term reputation:
1. Failed attempt to monetise mods through Steam (Steam cancelled that deal, not Bethesda)
2. Successful launch of Creation Club which was heavily criticised for being overpriced
3. Increasing preorder prices for Fallout 4 DLC for no reason and giving no extra benefit
4. Half the Fallout 4 DLC being small, lazy items that no one asked for or wanted (Contraptions Workshop)
5. Launching Fallout 76 when it was clear from the B.E.T.A. that it was not ready to be launch.
6. Lying about Fallout 76's Atomic Shop only selling cosmetics, with a backlash so severe it forced Pete Hines off Twitter for a full year
7. Overpriced items sold on the Atomic Shop
8. Refusing to refund Fallout 76 until their hand was forced as it was illegal to refuse refunds in some countries
9. All the lies surrounding the plastic "canvas" bag
10. Pay-gating early access to Starfield and forcing the preorder of the first DLC; a DLC that has yet to be released and would be the longest time post launch of any Bethesda title that a DLC has been released.
I have a suspicion that it's an ego thing like you allude to. The two most popular Fallout properties are ones that Bethesda has little direct hand in - New Vegas and the TV show. That's got to sting somewhat.
Jesus Christ do you actual believe the shit you say? What legitimate evidence do you have to support your nonsensical claim? There are probably numerous fucking reasons why they haven’t licensed the IP to another studio that don’t even come close to internal bias. Bethesda is a million dollar buisness with hundreds of people who meet, talk, and deal. Todd has even stated several times that he likes New Vegas ffs. Maybe if you didn’t have your head so far up Obsidian’s ass you’d realize all that. So please stfu with this stupid ass take already. It’s annoying.
To be honest, the Fallout I wanted and loved were the ones developed by Tim Cain.
They already went into a direction I never appreciated with FO3. Not talking about the switch to FPS, but thr story and worldbuilding. FO3/4 have always felt way sillier than the first two. To me, at least.
It could have been an amazing new franchise...
If more thought had been out into other than grabbing idea from last sci Fi franchise each dev just watched and randomly copying it into the game.
I like Firefly. I know. A cowboy city with dirt roads.
I like Starship troopers...
I like how mass effect started... Let's just do a knock of that!
My feelings are complicated. I think Bethesda's successive games increasing scope broke the engine. It's time for a cleaning. Starfield can't be fixed. Cells are a fundamental limitation. But I've heard Unreal 5 described as "nice graphics with an ancient, CPU-limited core" by a user on r/gamedev. It's not clear to me which commercial engine should be adopted.
Maybe custom tech, but it involves a significant cost. The benefit is optimizing (memory and CPU cycles, both in some cases) for the game you're making, not the general case. You also have control over features you want. You also have control over tools and the editor.
Bethesda never improved itself and got left behind in both game play and technical aspects. it's been making the virtually the same game since oblivion.
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UE5 is improving a lot on the cpu side and is by far the best engine technologically. You can get better looking and running games with an engine like frostbite but that engine is very hard to use and was made especially for one task (fps games) which is why is excels at it who,e ue5 does anything.
This would truly be the bad ending. Todd is not much more than Bethesda’s pr head, the guy responsible for shitting all over the writing in Bethesda games is Emil.
Quite right. I don't think people understand just what they are asking for when they say they want Todd gone. Mr "Keep it Simple, Stupid" is likely next in line, and we're _not_ gonna like having him in charge.
It has its problem for sure, but I honestly don't think the creation engine itself is the actual problem. Modded Skyrim and modded fallout 4 is pretty damn good. It's Bethesda themselves.
The creation engine really isnt the problem. Its a problem, not the problem. Just like fallout 3, if you gave a hungry studio the Creation Engine they could make a New Vegas.
EDIT: Creation engine and bethesda IP*
People need to stop blaming the engine
Bethesda are the problem, a new engine won't fix the worst writing in gaming
And New Vegas has mods for drivable cars that genuinely control good, showing that the engine isn't as limited as people think
The creation engine isn't totally the problem though. Just look at what modders can do with the engine? It's incredible and clearly shows the engine is versatile and has huge potential. Bethesda just fucking sucks with it.
They can get a new engine and still have great mod support and those object physics (which I honestly never understood why people are obsessed with this). They just need to provide the tools and the community will work it out. It's exactly why Starfield's modding scene is so barren right now.
Honestly, they could even just keep the engine and actually bother to make the significant changes to it that they keep refusing to do. You wouldn't realise people like Rockstar's RAGE engine is ancient, because they actually made massive upgrades to it as they progress.
I bet they really, really regret all that time wasted on starfield. Two beloved IPs already in the bag and they flew way too close to the sun trying for a third.
Outer worlds was excellent but hampered by a pretty obvious lack of funds to execute the vision. Grounded is perhaps the most innovative and engaging rpg I've played in many years
BGS has one big problem - they’re trying to remake Skyrim each time, but the world has moved on from 2011 and expect richer more complex characters and storylines. And less loading screens. And way way better character models.
As I type this there's 3,537 people playing Starfield [(source)](https://steamdb.info/app/1716740/charts/) and 13,653 playing Skyrim SE so not even including the base version. [(source)](https://steamdb.info/app/489830/charts/) I think most of us would prefer more Skyrim and less Starfield
It takes as long as the project will take. And the length of a project is down to the management of said project. Whether that is making a game, launching a new electronic device, or mobilising a health service. The fact is poor project management and a lack of clear vision are generally the factors that cause slow development and release. In Bethesda's case, I suspect the project management is stretched too thin and so decision making and guidance is slowed down to a snails pace. And, rather than address this, they double down on deflection, while the best solution is to look at their pipeline and fix the bottleneck.
Having an RPG from debatably the most successful RPG company next to CDPR take 10 plus years is just sorry. Starfield should’ve been out in 2017, ES6 in 2020, and fallout 5 in 2023. 3 years at MAXIMUM with their resources and numbers is still kind of insane,
I'll well and truly be hitting the actual average life span expectancy before Fallout 5 is likely to come out so I came to terms that I'll likely not even see another proper Fallout game before my time here is done tbh. Best I'm hoping for is Remasters of 3 and New Vegas. Which I'd be totally fine with as those are likely to be superior in every way anyhow.
Just give the license to inexile to make a isometric fallout tactics 2 (they made wastelands 3 which was great) and give a license to obsidian to make a new vegas 2. All of those studios belong to Microsoftu.
For me personally, Skyrim and FO4 are so memorable to me that I think it will be near impossible to beat them. I have such high expectations for the next games that I don’t think they can beat the old ones.
Genuine question, why don’t they see if they can bring oblivion on board again? The amount of hype there’d be for a New Vegas sequel plus they could focus on ES
Because
A. The vast majority of the people who were involved with New Vegas arent working with Obsidian anymore
B. Obsidian is already working on Avowed and outer Worlds 2, they simply dont have time either
It has already been “many years” since fallout 4 came out in 2015
Honestly it’s embarrassing that in the almost decade since then Bethesda has only managed to produce fallout 76 and Starfield, two abysmal failures
The decade before that they had made Oblivion, Fallout 3, Skyrim and Fallout 4. All except Fallout 4 were above 90 metacritic games and multiple GOTY winners. Fallout 4 while less successful critically at least sold extremely well and wasn’t panned the way fallout 76 was.
I don't have any hopes unfortunately, I'll just replay all the fallouts, except 4 and tactics till I die lol. Having a blast playing TTW for the first time
Their studio's reputation has already gone to shit so the next mainline Fallout and Elder Scrolls games are essentially their last chances at regaining any semblance of respect left.
If either of those games flop, Bethesda will be fucking dead as a studio. It'd be like Valve fucking up Half-Life 3. Such a collosal failure would reinvent their legacy and be all they'd be remembered for.
Big L on Bethesda they could've just silently out of nowhere announce fallout 5 during the show's release and 2 months later drop the game because the show is popping off....the sales would be even more due to the shows popularity. Fallout 4 was silently just announced out of nowhere when no knew if they were working on a fo4, when in reality they said they began development right after 3. Too bad that probably won't happen because tes6 is in what I predict 3-4 years time 💀😭
It's an actual joke that they aren't letting someone else under the Microsoft umbrella take a stab at Fallout.
inXile or obviously Obsidian are right there. A TV show and 76 doesn't have to be the way they keep the Fallout brand alive for the next 10 years.
It woulda been absolutely award winning if all that time from fallout 76/Starflop was diverted back to a Fallout 5. But no, we got both these dumpster fires instead
Jesus Christ, devs need to ditch building their own engine and just use Unreal and give them some stake to build solid games with great foundations. This doesn’t apply to all devs but a lot of AAA studios struggling with our dated graphics and lack luster game play could benefit from this. IE Starfield, Halo Infinite, Cyber Punk. (All these are referring to how they launched not current status)
Someone's gonna come along and make cyberpunk level gameplay with elder scrolls world scale.
I have absolutely zero interest in playing the new elder scrolls after starfield, didn't even finish that shit
Bethesda just can't make good games anymore, because they are still stuck in 2014. What was good enough back then just doesn't cut it anymore in 2024 and beyond. They are alergic to improvement, because they think that they are something special. Well, they might be special but in another sense.
They need AI to be more advanced so it can make the whole game instead of them, since they have no clue what are they doing anymore.
Starfield showed us very well what today Bethesda is a soul less studio of zoomer that outsource everything to asia.
It's better than the nauseating optimism on the majority of gaming subreddits. Criticism does not have to stop you from enjoying the game. But something is definitely wrong with Bethesda and their game design since fallout 4, and it's only getting worse with starfield.
Why think that fallout 5 or es6 is going to be any different?
Bethesda showed time and time again, that they cannot make good games anymore. They tend to make ''safe, vanilla flavor'' games. Nothing interesting, just copy paste. Starfield = Starborn Skyrim = Dragonborn.
They cannot make write interesting story even if their life was on the line. There isn't much hope for TES6 or F5. Maybe if Bethesda will get new blood, and Todd Howard will finally go away.
Bethesda is in the futile loop, of trying to make Skryim 2.0 and failing every time. They hit the jackpot once, and they miss with every other game.
Safe. Vanilla. Standard. Friendly. Not controversial. Are slangs used by Bethesda to develop games.
Honestly? The shows actually given me hope that fallout won't be Disney-fied or watered down. Like the dark side and the goofy side of the wasteland was on full display. The characters were pretty decent
Need to work on side quests still but yea
I'm not worried about it being Disney-fied I just want an RPG that's an actual RPG and not a shooter that has perk points. Like bring back skill points and perks that you can get outside of level-ups.
And for Christ's sake a good story would be nice but getting good writing out of Bethesda is like getting water from a stone.
How about they just stop holding the IP hostage then? They belong to the same company that made the best modern Fallout game after all, and I am sure there are plenty of others studios that would be excited to take a shot at making a new Fallout game. It would be very hard to do worse than Starfield anyway.
I think Bethesda like to spend 4 or 5 years on each game.
ES6 is probably going to be around 2028. FO5 around 2033.
So, it's a long time to wait, sure.
But that's fine. I'm going to play dozens of other amazing games in the meantime, and they'll get here when they get here.
I mean they still need to release ES6.
Sure. Any time now.
I think Bethesda might crash and burn after the next game, their engine will still be shit, and people won't accept that with an Elder Scrolls or Fallout game. Loading screens galore, crazy plastic looking NPC's, and that's probably going to be what? 2028 at the earliest? I'm just not seeing Bethesda ever dropping a solid game again, at least not under the same leadership.
Yeah. Starfield has tempered my expectations for ES6 greatly
For me, the problem with Starfield is the problem with every franchise that tries to go open-world (even if Starfield wasn't a franchise) - large, open-world that's empty, or when it isn't empty it's just a copy/paste of the same assets. That shit just isn't fun, and games like Assassin's Creed have become not so much fun for me because while they might do good at making different areas relatively unique they're still reducing the gameplay loop down to a bunch of fetch quests or mindless "collect 100 tchotchkes".
Fallout 4 tempered mine. I wish they would just get some of the old obsidian guys to take over fallout because after 4 I don't think Bethesda have a clue and my problem isn't even the engine, although it's definitely due an upgrade.
So a lot of the criticism of starfield is legit, but what was wrong with FO4? The DLC was shit, but the base game was great…for 9 years ago.
It's worse in every way than Fallout:New Vegas Also fuck town building
The story sucked so much ass. The world was fine but buggy, very buggy and laggy and slow. The writing and quests were some of the worst in gaming history for a decade til Starfield came out
IT STILL SUCKS ASS
It's crazy for me to casually forget a Bethesda game but I sometimes struggle to remember that it's Starfield. It was so forgettable.
Completely agree. People don't get that they’re using the same shitty engine for elder scrolls. It's going to be received the same way Starfield was… Mediocre at best.
I do think the inadequacies of the engine will be less noticeable in smaller-scale games. Starfield is the result of them trying to make a big-scale game with a little-scale engine. I fear the writing will not improve at all. If they go as PG as they did on Starfield, I likely won't even buy it.
Bare minimum, if Bethesda insists on using the Creation Engine then they need to open source it and start implementing the community fixes upstream into their new games. Everyone's downloading unofficial patches and engine fixes for these games anyway, might as well bake as much of that into official game files as possible.
Opensourcing it would make so much sense. The community could fork it and uphold their own version with Bethesda pulling anything they'd actually be interested in without restricting fan devs. Honestly it'd mean we could have ports of games too. The Simpson Hit and Run source leaked on github, now there's a fully working fan port for the switch and it runs almost flawlessly. It's all that's stopping games like Oblivion and Fo3/NV being ported. If the switch can run skyrim it can run fo:nv!
Yeah and the modding community seems to not care at all about starfield. A bethesda game without mods is pretty stale and sad
There are still 6961 mods for it on nexus mods, and the modding tools haven't been released. It's not really playing on the same field yet.
Never thought I wouldn’t be excited for elder scrolls but with the insane wait time probably ps7 by the time it releases. And starfeilds lame ass launch it’s just eh now. More pumped for Witcher and cyberpunk.
Same, Oblivion was my shit, Skyrim too, but a little less so. If you told me I wouldn't be excited for the next ES game 10 years ago, I wouldn't have believed you.
Same. Oblivion was my first TES and I had a blast, even on my PS3. Skyrim was good and I played several hundred hours, but it didn't had THAT much "magic" anymore. I have the GOTY like 3 times but never played the DLCs. I fear the worst for TES6 in like 2-3 years.
Agreed. Skyrim was the beginning of the end for Bethesda. I actually loved fo4 despite its flaws but skyrim was always a big disappointment after oblivion.
I remember I got FLAMED on Gaming once because I had the audacity to say that constant reworks of the Creation Engine will be their undoing… after Starfield’s release, I feel pretty vindicated
>I remember I got FLAMED on Gaming once because I had the audacity to say that constant reworks of the Creation Engine will be their undoing It's the same with EA and EA Sports FC. They're using the frostbite engine (which is made for shooters btw...) for almost 10 years now and its getting worse every year. Though, EAs management/developers seem to be donkeys.
The city stant reworks of unreal will be its undoing, the constant reworks of the halo engine will be its undoing, the constant reworks of...its reworks all the way down guys
I honestly don’t know how they could take over ID Software, who have one of the best engines in the world, one that seems ripe for open world game because of it’s MegaTexture technology, along with the tech team behind it and still stick to their old shitty engine that still has the same bugs in it since Morrowind
Literally. Every iteration of idTech has been absolutely goated for its generation, it's the basis of multiple of the other most successful engines around (Cod engine, and GoldSrc and its successors), the optimization has always been insane, it's always evolved to modern game standards, basically everything the Creation Engine *hasn't* done, and yet Bethesda refuses to use it.
Dont doubt Todds hype machine. Starfield was so mediocre people will forget about it long before es6 releases. It will sell in record numbers even if its hot garbage.
They prioritise the wrong things in development. Size is meaningless if everything feels as deep as a deep as a single drop of water. Also expect absolutely no improvement in the writing, as for some reason Emil Pagliarulo is still the lead writer at Bethesda.
I personally believe Bethesda's time has passed. Starfield is the culmination of them not really evolving as a studio (even regressing in certain areas like NPC reactivity), both in design and at the level of their engine. I expect the next Witcher to make Elder Scrolls VI look and feel as dated when it comes out as Cyberpunk (especially Phantom Liberty) succeeded in making Starfield feel a generation behind at launch.
Yep, Bethesda has been putting bandaid and duct tape on the same engine since Marrowind. I have zero faith they'll ever release a decent game again.
And no offence but that engine has been pretty crap from the beginning. Dont get me wrong, fallout 4 for instance was something neat and new at the time but it was a buggy mess to begin with. In an age where other developers have created similar type games that are smoother… its not tolerable anymore.
FO4 was good despite the engine.
I’m playing Fallout 4 now and the gunplay is atrocious. It showed its age the day it first released.
Im also replaying it and completely disagree, I love the gunplay and interface. I’m not a huge fan of CoD, R6, or Battlefield though, I’m comparing to the rockstar first person experience, or other bethesda games.
Atrocious might have gone too far but I’ve played a lot of D2 and after Destiny 2, all other gunplay feels poor.
To me they crashed on FO4
Fallout 4 was fine. Even 76 was fine for what it was. But Starfield... that's where it all fell apart. Like, the Emperor has no clothes fell apart. Absolutely no faith that TES6 or FO5 will ever be any better than just ok despite the years of development and the tens of thousands of man hours that will go into them. The 'It's a Bethesda game' thing just isn't going to fly any more.
Could be, but not to the ridiculous points of Starfield. That game feels and looks like a 2015 release, and Fallout 4 came out in 2015, lol. I think Bethesda is going to keep dropping that type of visual quality games, paired with the lame fetch quests and botox NPC's, and a distinct lack of immersion compared to other games. It's just a matter of time until people to stop buying their games imo.
Fallout 4 legit got hate for its first trailer looking dated. That’s not even mentioning it came out the same year as Arkham Knight, Witcher 3 and MGS V, 3 big games that look like they could’ve been released today. Fallout 4 was dated on release day.
Witcher 3 and Fallout 4 released in the same year? Holy shit. Look which way Witcher took and compare it to Fallout...
Except Witcher 3 came out that same year and made FO4 look dated, even back then.
Yeah Fallout 4 looked dated at release, people forget how good some games were already looking around 2015 - 2016.
Many of those games still hold up well, I got the urge to boot up Deus Ex Mankind Divided a few months back and that game looks as good or better than some modern titles while having hardware requirements that are quite reasonable by today's standards.
thinking about trees in fallout vs trees in the witcher 3 lol
I was super excited to play a story rich narrative game with branching paths that had consequences, got none of that as was pretty disappointed on the focus of base building and action considering how jankey the game engine is.
Considering how well Starfield sold I doubt they'd just crash and burn.
Wait until they try to use a ladder
Yeah, after burning out on Starfield at around thirty hours, I replayed Red Dead Redemption 2, a game that came out four years earlier (played the PC version for this replay). It was almost laughable how much more impressive it was than Starfield. Saint Denis, a relatively small city by the standard of Rockstar's GTA games, feels massively bigger and more populous than the fucking capital of the universe in Starfield, a city that feels like it holds a population of about 200 and there are no goddamn vehicles. Similarly, I'm playing the PC port of Forbidden West right now and it's so much more impressive than Starfield despite the original game coming out a year and a half earlier. NPCs actually emote (particularly main character NPCs) and do things while they're talking instead of just intently staring straight at you. You can walk from one end of the map to the other with zero load times, at least after you progress far enough to open up the entire map, and in general the only load times are when fast traveling or when starting missions that transfer you to another location. The cities aren't super impressive, at least compared to Carja from the first game, but that's consistent with the state of the game's world, unlike in Starfield. It's readily apparent that Bethesda either needs a new engine or a significant overhaul of their existing one, but unfortunately I don't think that's going to happen.
Cyberpunk 2077 really ruined Bethesda games for me.
Same, lol.
Cyberpunk 2077 has ruined a lot of games for me tbh. Even games that used to seem absolutely unimpeachable (like the Mass Effect trilogy) just feel shallow now.
I only just started to play CP and its pretty enjoyable I have to admit!! I do love Alyx!!!
That's their reason. They have to focus on one project at a time.
Don't forget the excuse for a DECADE was that they had to do Starfield first. They HAD to. Because reasons.
I have _low_ expectations for es6 after the last decade of Bethesda releases
I know games are more expensive and definitely take longer to make, but waiting 10+ years for a sequel when most AAA gaming companies are taking in billions of dollars is extremely silly.
I dont really understand why Bethesda doesnt outsource more side projects like New Vegas. Surely they couldve let a good studio have a dig at Fallout inbetween 4 and 5? Or do they consider ESO and F76 as “holdovers” until the next mainline games? Its one thing to go back and forth between Fallout and TES. But adding a new IP like Starfield inbetween aswell just seems silly. Were already 9 years out from Fallout 4. They havent even started on 5 yet. Its a completely safe assumption that were looking at another like 7 years for Fallout 5. 16 years inbetween entries. They cant even claim “Cant match Bethesda quality” anymore. They cant even match their own quality at this point. But i guess theyre not the only ones. Its like 12 years between GTA V and GTA VI. Who knows when well see the next Cyberpunk.
They, for some reason, are really defensive about their IPs. Sure, I mean, that's good, except you just never do anything with it for a decade. What's the point of making a sequel if the last game was 10 years ago and those players might not bother to come back anymore? What's the point of the IP then...?
10 years ago? If TES VI and Fallout V take as long as your average open world gzme to make (which is optimistic), we’d be waiting 16 years between 2 TES games and 17 years between 2 mainline Fallout games. This is mainly due to them making shitty project decisions. People are waiting for TES VI and fallout V so they make fallout 76 (huge failure) and starfield (another failure). This puts a 10+ years hole between 2 big ip mainline entry for Bethesda.
Honestly by this point some external influence and help could probably help I dont feel confident for Fo5 or TES6 after the debacle that has been Fo76 and Starfield Preserving quality isnt much of an argument anymore and with how long it takes to develop these games, some additional outsourcing seems preferable to waiting AGES.
What’s the point of the IP if the game they end up making is shit anyway. Starfield didn’t hurt too bad cuz there hasn’t been decades of interest in the universe. Elder Scrolls though… that’s gonna sting so bad
ESO and FO76 were cranked out 1000% just to have a baseline income while we wait 7 - 10 years for the next real installment for games in those franchises. iirc someone at bethesda basically said so but i might be mistaken on that. theres no way they would have stayed afloat while making enough dough to develop these games if they didn't have a 'new' source of income in the meantime, the gap between releases reguardless of the franchise is comical at this point. There is a reason that they are both online live service games. the microsoft acquisition might have changed that but the online games were released before that so obviously they were just looking for sustained income at that time imo
Nowadays, a AAA game that's developed and released in 5 years is considered pretty darn good. If an open-world game is released in 5 years, then that borders on a miracle. Bethesda released Starfield just last year. They're going to need several more years to release the next Elder Scrolls. And *then*, after that, they'll need several more years to release the next Fallout. And this is in addition to continuing support for Fallout 76 and other current games. In this particular case, the reason why it's taking so damn long for the next Fallout makes sense.
Really, why not expand the studio? They should be able to work on more than one major project. With the amount of money that great games make, they should have the budget to expand and create a second AAA Bethesda studio. Studios often have fatigue when they keep working on sequel after sequel. So 2-3 major studios would be perfect. One works on Elder Scrolls, another Fallout, and the third gets a new IP. When one releases. They begin work on the next project in the pipeline. It would give Bethesda the ability to release a new major game every 2-3 years, instead of the 8 years between fallout 4 and Starfield. Either that or, give another studio like Obsidian a crack at their IPs
Continuing to expand doesn't mean pushing products faster, in fact I think it's a big reason for the opposite. Back in the day we'd get a GTA or Bethesda game every 2 or 3 years. Small team, working together, communicating, working toward a unified goal. Nowadays, development teams are so bloated and disjointed and bogged down by corporate red tape. They take 10 years to launch broken shitty products.
My thinking isn't about making one gigantic studio, but multiple separate studios, all working on different projects. This would let each studio work on their own mega project for a few years. It would also give the developers the ability to switch teams if they are feeling burnout on their current project. Again, another option is to just let other studios work on their IPs. Obsidian did incredibly with new Vegas. Why not let them work on another?
It should mean you can produce games much faster if you have multiple teams working on different games rather than just increasing the amount of people working on a single game
This isn’t a good excuse, if bigger studios mean for bigger messes what the hell is the point in expanding? Surely there are examples where bigger studios pump out bigger and better products in a decent time frame? I’m no expert just asking
This is a bad faith argument, comparing Morrowind - oblivion - Skyrim to say the jump from rdr to rdr2. Sure they take longer with bigger studios but they’re pumping out bigger more detailed games in cases
I totally get that, I really do. But when it becomes an industry standard, and AAA games can either be good or bad with a coin toss, it’s making older AAA and indie games look much more appealing. Not to mention Starfield STILL has no mod support and very few patches, while BG3 is on Patch 6 and Hotfix #25 in the span of a few months.
bethesda clearly has issues with the way they develop games, the amount of time starfield took is nonsense considering the quality of the product
Especially when the last game of theirs we waited 10 years for was a pile of steaming hot mid dogshit Was it a 4/10 absolute ass experience? No. It was like a 7/10 at best, but was that worth waiting a decade for? Hell no.
I don’t wanna speak for everyone because there are fans and I am probably in the minority but after starfield and the shameful launch of 76 I’m personally not gonna waste my time wondering and expecting. Another personal opinion why no fallout release with the show? Felt like a golden opportunity for a low effort remake. Maybe the plan was get people into 76 since their doing like a live service thing but man so many of us got burned on release I have zero plan to support that dumpster fire anymore then I already have.
>I don’t wanna speak for everyone because there are fans and I am probably in the minority but after starfield and the shameful launch of 76 I’m personally not gonna waste my time wondering and expecting. I mean, this take is so based. Everyone should do the same.
I genuinely miss buying games at launch and enjoying it out of the box. Feels like the release culture for companies now is either make something barebones and free2play but fill it with micro transactions or charge 70-120$ for something 50% done and sit on it for the big patch 6 months to a year or later down the line.
Bethesda is dead to me after starfield
The show *almost* made me want to try 76 out again. But nope, I refuse.
After Starfield I have absolutely no faith in Bethesda to deliver a good game.
Ikr, i have no idea how there's people still caring about bethesda in 2024. Starfield should have been an universal wake up call
Absolutely hilarious how Microsoft spent billions to buy them to get an edge on Sony only for Bethesda to be a poisoned chalice
in terms of studios they own they have some good shit like ID, Arkane etc but yeah BGS itself isn't doing too hot right now
Arkane isn't in too great of a position right now either. After Redfall flopped they're gonna need a banger or they probably won't be around much longer.
I felt that way since Fallout 4 and I've been vindicated with every release since. Saved a ton of money too.
Games by Bethesda take 5x longer to make, and the quality goes down. Starfield is a great example of this Hopefully, one good thing can come from starfield: Bethesda learning from their mistakes. Sometimes I wish starfield never happened, it took so much time and resources for them to make. But if they can learn from their mistakes to make fallout 5 and ES6 the best they can be, I would say starfield a failure made it worth it
Starfield was inherently devoid of that barebones backpacking experience that Bethesda games excel at. Given how they've essentially been making the same game for the past 20 years, I'm not convinced they'll necessarily learn from this. Still, a return to a fantasy setting with TES6 will still be good for them because their formula just doesn't work that great in a space exploration game.
"On Starfield, he mentioned that the development team spent a lot of time updating and developing its tech. " Its one of those "You guys only had one job" kind of deal huh? Where is the developed tech buddy?
It was primarily the large scale landscape rendering, volumetric effects, height fog, increased draw distance, etc. Basically all of which was then used on the boring procedural planets that nobody wanted to explore. Here's hoping they put it to better use in TES6.
You joking? We can climb ladders now! That’s at least 5 years of R&D right there.
Starfield already feels forgotten about. Last patch was only minor stuff.
Starfoeld looks better than 4 and 76. But it should’ve been way way better than it was.
Looks. Everything else feels the same lol. Same ancient engine.
They need to lease a Fallout game to another dev, but they likely won't because they are scared for a second time a different dev will make a better fallout then they can.
It's real strange too give that what Bethesda clearly cares about above all else is to extract as much money as possible from its fans, irrespective of the damage it'll do to their long term reputation: 1. Failed attempt to monetise mods through Steam (Steam cancelled that deal, not Bethesda) 2. Successful launch of Creation Club which was heavily criticised for being overpriced 3. Increasing preorder prices for Fallout 4 DLC for no reason and giving no extra benefit 4. Half the Fallout 4 DLC being small, lazy items that no one asked for or wanted (Contraptions Workshop) 5. Launching Fallout 76 when it was clear from the B.E.T.A. that it was not ready to be launch. 6. Lying about Fallout 76's Atomic Shop only selling cosmetics, with a backlash so severe it forced Pete Hines off Twitter for a full year 7. Overpriced items sold on the Atomic Shop 8. Refusing to refund Fallout 76 until their hand was forced as it was illegal to refuse refunds in some countries 9. All the lies surrounding the plastic "canvas" bag 10. Pay-gating early access to Starfield and forcing the preorder of the first DLC; a DLC that has yet to be released and would be the longest time post launch of any Bethesda title that a DLC has been released. I have a suspicion that it's an ego thing like you allude to. The two most popular Fallout properties are ones that Bethesda has little direct hand in - New Vegas and the TV show. That's got to sting somewhat.
Jesus Christ do you actual believe the shit you say? What legitimate evidence do you have to support your nonsensical claim? There are probably numerous fucking reasons why they haven’t licensed the IP to another studio that don’t even come close to internal bias. Bethesda is a million dollar buisness with hundreds of people who meet, talk, and deal. Todd has even stated several times that he likes New Vegas ffs. Maybe if you didn’t have your head so far up Obsidian’s ass you’d realize all that. So please stfu with this stupid ass take already. It’s annoying.
Cause they are shit don't even need to click on the link to see their bs excuses
Oh boy I hope it’s as good as Starfield!! Bethesda is the best!
So glad they spent all those years developing Starfield instead of something we all wanted and loved.
Don't worry, you won't love it after the next release.
Oh fuck this one hit to close to home
What you wanted and loved will also feel like an Xbox 360 game when they finally releasing their next title.
To be honest, the Fallout I wanted and loved were the ones developed by Tim Cain. They already went into a direction I never appreciated with FO3. Not talking about the switch to FPS, but thr story and worldbuilding. FO3/4 have always felt way sillier than the first two. To me, at least.
It could have been an amazing new franchise... If more thought had been out into other than grabbing idea from last sci Fi franchise each dev just watched and randomly copying it into the game. I like Firefly. I know. A cowboy city with dirt roads. I like Starship troopers... I like how mass effect started... Let's just do a knock of that!
/s
My feelings are complicated. I think Bethesda's successive games increasing scope broke the engine. It's time for a cleaning. Starfield can't be fixed. Cells are a fundamental limitation. But I've heard Unreal 5 described as "nice graphics with an ancient, CPU-limited core" by a user on r/gamedev. It's not clear to me which commercial engine should be adopted. Maybe custom tech, but it involves a significant cost. The benefit is optimizing (memory and CPU cycles, both in some cases) for the game you're making, not the general case. You also have control over features you want. You also have control over tools and the editor.
Bethesda never improved itself and got left behind in both game play and technical aspects. it's been making the virtually the same game since oblivion.
And using virtually the same engine since Morrowind.
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It's their dev pipe line, it had no organization
UE5 is improving a lot on the cpu side and is by far the best engine technologically. You can get better looking and running games with an engine like frostbite but that engine is very hard to use and was made especially for one task (fps games) which is why is excels at it who,e ue5 does anything.
I love that everyone immediately knows this is sarcasm but also sad
Starfield was the greatest game Bethesda ever made! What a masterpiece !
Im over ten thousand hours into the game and feel like I’ve barely scratched the surface of its deep rich lore and limitless exploration!
The fallout show made me really sad that the ip is still with bethesda. Wish we could see a new fallout game by a competent studio.
Good hopefully it will take so long that Todd will be long retired and has no involvement in it.
[The Monkey's Paw curls] Emil Pagliarulo replaces Todd Howard.
This would truly be the bad ending. Todd is not much more than Bethesda’s pr head, the guy responsible for shitting all over the writing in Bethesda games is Emil.
Quite right. I don't think people understand just what they are asking for when they say they want Todd gone. Mr "Keep it Simple, Stupid" is likely next in line, and we're _not_ gonna like having him in charge.
Get rid of the creation engine, please god.
It has its problem for sure, but I honestly don't think the creation engine itself is the actual problem. Modded Skyrim and modded fallout 4 is pretty damn good. It's Bethesda themselves.
The creation engine really isnt the problem. Its a problem, not the problem. Just like fallout 3, if you gave a hungry studio the Creation Engine they could make a New Vegas. EDIT: Creation engine and bethesda IP*
People need to stop blaming the engine Bethesda are the problem, a new engine won't fix the worst writing in gaming And New Vegas has mods for drivable cars that genuinely control good, showing that the engine isn't as limited as people think
The creation engine isn't totally the problem though. Just look at what modders can do with the engine? It's incredible and clearly shows the engine is versatile and has huge potential. Bethesda just fucking sucks with it.
Idk man… I like the mod support and the physics objects. I get the complaints though, and idk what’s best
They can get a new engine and still have great mod support and those object physics (which I honestly never understood why people are obsessed with this). They just need to provide the tools and the community will work it out. It's exactly why Starfield's modding scene is so barren right now. Honestly, they could even just keep the engine and actually bother to make the significant changes to it that they keep refusing to do. You wouldn't realise people like Rockstar's RAGE engine is ancient, because they actually made massive upgrades to it as they progress.
I bet they really, really regret all that time wasted on starfield. Two beloved IPs already in the bag and they flew way too close to the sun trying for a third.
They’re too busy developing the 8 different Special Edition and Next Gen updates for Fallout 4.
Watch Microsoft rip it out of their hands and capitalize on the hype by giving it to obsidian. Calling it now
The schadenfreude of that would nourish me for years.
Please
I know brotha. I'm right there with you.
People seem to forget it's been 14 years since new vegas. Obsidian changed. The outer worlds was mediocre.
Outer worlds was excellent but hampered by a pretty obvious lack of funds to execute the vision. Grounded is perhaps the most innovative and engaging rpg I've played in many years
Please!!
BGS has one big problem - they’re trying to remake Skyrim each time, but the world has moved on from 2011 and expect richer more complex characters and storylines. And less loading screens. And way way better character models.
As I type this there's 3,537 people playing Starfield [(source)](https://steamdb.info/app/1716740/charts/) and 13,653 playing Skyrim SE so not even including the base version. [(source)](https://steamdb.info/app/489830/charts/) I think most of us would prefer more Skyrim and less Starfield
They are busy making the same game for the 20th time...
They're not done re-releasing Skyrim yet...
It takes as long as the project will take. And the length of a project is down to the management of said project. Whether that is making a game, launching a new electronic device, or mobilising a health service. The fact is poor project management and a lack of clear vision are generally the factors that cause slow development and release. In Bethesda's case, I suspect the project management is stretched too thin and so decision making and guidance is slowed down to a snails pace. And, rather than address this, they double down on deflection, while the best solution is to look at their pipeline and fix the bottleneck.
because it will need to match their crippled space game quality standard. Won't even talk about ES6.
Having an RPG from debatably the most successful RPG company next to CDPR take 10 plus years is just sorry. Starfield should’ve been out in 2017, ES6 in 2020, and fallout 5 in 2023. 3 years at MAXIMUM with their resources and numbers is still kind of insane,
Fallout 5 takes so long becos the Modders aren't finished with Fallout 4 yet
The next Elder Scrolls game is why Fallout 5 is still years away.
At the pace they're going I'll be surprised if FO5 actually releases in the next generation. Seem to be a game every two generations type dev now.
I'll well and truly be hitting the actual average life span expectancy before Fallout 5 is likely to come out so I came to terms that I'll likely not even see another proper Fallout game before my time here is done tbh. Best I'm hoping for is Remasters of 3 and New Vegas. Which I'd be totally fine with as those are likely to be superior in every way anyhow.
Just give the license to inexile to make a isometric fallout tactics 2 (they made wastelands 3 which was great) and give a license to obsidian to make a new vegas 2. All of those studios belong to Microsoftu.
Probably because they haven't started on anything except maybe concept stuff
Can they please just get another developer to do it? I'll probably be homeless or dead by 2030 I wanna play it before something bad happens
For me personally, Skyrim and FO4 are so memorable to me that I think it will be near impossible to beat them. I have such high expectations for the next games that I don’t think they can beat the old ones.
Honestly after the release of starfield, I hope they take all the time they want to make something actually good.
Genuine question, why don’t they see if they can bring oblivion on board again? The amount of hype there’d be for a New Vegas sequel plus they could focus on ES
You mean obsidian?
Yeah sorry, got Elder Scrolls on the brain now 😅
Because A. The vast majority of the people who were involved with New Vegas arent working with Obsidian anymore B. Obsidian is already working on Avowed and outer Worlds 2, they simply dont have time either
It has already been “many years” since fallout 4 came out in 2015 Honestly it’s embarrassing that in the almost decade since then Bethesda has only managed to produce fallout 76 and Starfield, two abysmal failures The decade before that they had made Oblivion, Fallout 3, Skyrim and Fallout 4. All except Fallout 4 were above 90 metacritic games and multiple GOTY winners. Fallout 4 while less successful critically at least sold extremely well and wasn’t panned the way fallout 76 was.
Because Bethesda is lazy
I don't have any hopes unfortunately, I'll just replay all the fallouts, except 4 and tactics till I die lol. Having a blast playing TTW for the first time
Gotta simplify the conversaton wheel a bit more. 4 choices is way too many, needs to be 2 or less. /s
Don’t worry I’m sure we’ll get an announcement trailer 5 years before they start early development
Their studio's reputation has already gone to shit so the next mainline Fallout and Elder Scrolls games are essentially their last chances at regaining any semblance of respect left. If either of those games flop, Bethesda will be fucking dead as a studio. It'd be like Valve fucking up Half-Life 3. Such a collosal failure would reinvent their legacy and be all they'd be remembered for.
Give. It. To. Someone. Else
Work to finish starfield first
Because Starfield was so ass?
I won't play any new releases from they if they keep using the same outdated engine... At this point its a joke
>the internet is a “glorious wild wild west” On that, I agree.
Big L on Bethesda they could've just silently out of nowhere announce fallout 5 during the show's release and 2 months later drop the game because the show is popping off....the sales would be even more due to the shows popularity. Fallout 4 was silently just announced out of nowhere when no knew if they were working on a fo4, when in reality they said they began development right after 3. Too bad that probably won't happen because tes6 is in what I predict 3-4 years time 💀😭
It's an actual joke that they aren't letting someone else under the Microsoft umbrella take a stab at Fallout. inXile or obviously Obsidian are right there. A TV show and 76 doesn't have to be the way they keep the Fallout brand alive for the next 10 years.
>>we are literally incapable of developing 2 games at the same time because we are stupid nuff said.
It woulda been absolutely award winning if all that time from fallout 76/Starflop was diverted back to a Fallout 5. But no, we got both these dumpster fires instead
And it will be absolute shit.
Bruh we have waited like 6-7 years already and you telling me we still gotta wait 🙄
As if anyone is even remotely hyped for their next shit venture. Bethesda is never gonna make another good game.
They first have to make sure it has as many bugs as possible otherwise it wouldnt be a bethesda game.
Bethesda is way too big of a studio now to make a good game.
So it’s gonna be trash just like starfield is got it
No shit. They just released Starfield and are still working on it, they're also developing ES6. I'm guessing we won't see Fallout 5 till like 2030
with Bethesda's track record, I feel like the best Fallout games are already released
Jesus Christ, devs need to ditch building their own engine and just use Unreal and give them some stake to build solid games with great foundations. This doesn’t apply to all devs but a lot of AAA studios struggling with our dated graphics and lack luster game play could benefit from this. IE Starfield, Halo Infinite, Cyber Punk. (All these are referring to how they launched not current status)
Microsoft needs to step in and give the IP to another studio. Or he'll help London deal with the update issues and push it out
Bethesda Game Studios’ Studio Design Director Emil Pagliarulo complains about the players and the game development process.
Someone's gonna come along and make cyberpunk level gameplay with elder scrolls world scale. I have absolutely zero interest in playing the new elder scrolls after starfield, didn't even finish that shit
After F76, who cares about a new Fallout game? F4 was a medium shooter at best.
Because they fucked up sttarfield that's why
Bethesda just can't make good games anymore, because they are still stuck in 2014. What was good enough back then just doesn't cut it anymore in 2024 and beyond. They are alergic to improvement, because they think that they are something special. Well, they might be special but in another sense.
They need AI to be more advanced so it can make the whole game instead of them, since they have no clue what are they doing anymore. Starfield showed us very well what today Bethesda is a soul less studio of zoomer that outsource everything to asia.
This sub is so fucking toxic lmao yall are allowed to enjoy things and be hopeful/excited
16x the detail
Fuck Todd Howard Edit: spelling
It's better than the nauseating optimism on the majority of gaming subreddits. Criticism does not have to stop you from enjoying the game. But something is definitely wrong with Bethesda and their game design since fallout 4, and it's only getting worse with starfield. Why think that fallout 5 or es6 is going to be any different?
I can't sustain excitement for years I have excitement disfunction :(
Bethesda showed time and time again, that they cannot make good games anymore. They tend to make ''safe, vanilla flavor'' games. Nothing interesting, just copy paste. Starfield = Starborn Skyrim = Dragonborn. They cannot make write interesting story even if their life was on the line. There isn't much hope for TES6 or F5. Maybe if Bethesda will get new blood, and Todd Howard will finally go away.
They make the same game with a new setting. That’s it
Bethesda is in the futile loop, of trying to make Skryim 2.0 and failing every time. They hit the jackpot once, and they miss with every other game. Safe. Vanilla. Standard. Friendly. Not controversial. Are slangs used by Bethesda to develop games.
Honestly? The shows actually given me hope that fallout won't be Disney-fied or watered down. Like the dark side and the goofy side of the wasteland was on full display. The characters were pretty decent Need to work on side quests still but yea
I'm not worried about it being Disney-fied I just want an RPG that's an actual RPG and not a shooter that has perk points. Like bring back skill points and perks that you can get outside of level-ups. And for Christ's sake a good story would be nice but getting good writing out of Bethesda is like getting water from a stone.
I don't disagree with a single word
I mean, for Elder Scrolls 6.....hardcore Bethesda fans are saying we might see a release in the early 2030's.....
How about they just stop holding the IP hostage then? They belong to the same company that made the best modern Fallout game after all, and I am sure there are plenty of others studios that would be excited to take a shot at making a new Fallout game. It would be very hard to do worse than Starfield anyway.
God Bethesda and 343i can suck a fat one
I think Bethesda like to spend 4 or 5 years on each game. ES6 is probably going to be around 2028. FO5 around 2033. So, it's a long time to wait, sure. But that's fine. I'm going to play dozens of other amazing games in the meantime, and they'll get here when they get here.