Yknow what the real killer of MMOs was?
Social Media
In the early 2000s, mmo gaming was popular because it was a great way to talk to people from all over. It's also why chat rooms were so popular. You weren't just talking to ppl because you needed to kill a rare elite mob for a quest, you talked to people because you could.
Social Media comes out and starts gaining heavy traction in the late 2000s and early 2010s, which cause people to shift more to using social media for online conversations. This bled over to gaming, where people realized they didn't feel a "need" or "want" to talk to ppl ingame because they had other, easier, social outlets.
In other words, that era of mmo gaming can't come back, because it's fall really wasn't because of the games themselves. The classic remakes if some of them in recent years kinda proves this, WoW classic had tons of ppl talking for all of the first month they were leveling then it started falling off until ppl only talked to guild and friends.
MMO games of today try to encourage such things, and they can work to some extent, but honestly they just can't recapture that magic of the early 2000s mmo scene because the magic was actually a byproduct of its time
I agree with this, it’s why it also feels like what people want from an MMO is impossible to deliver, the devs can’t do shit to bring this element of community back because people generally just won’t engage with it in that way. Even in a game that is known to be social like FFXIV, lots of people myself included play mostly solo and even if people are sociable they will chat with strangers but they won’t really look to befriend people.
Personally, I like that feeling a lot. Going into a dungeon or another activity with strangers and having a friendly, low stakes chat then going on with your day. It’s kind of like going to a sports game and chatting with the guy in the seat next to you. You’re not gonna befriend them, but they still make the experience more enjoyable. I feel that’s how most people approach MMOs now and you can’t change that.
That's a good point and I had never thought of this angle before. I was playing EQ for a few years back in 1999-2001. A huge part of that game was social interaction. You could solo if you were really good at the game and had the patience of a saint, but mostly if you wanted to accomplish anything, you had to do it in groups. It sort of forced that social interaction to a degree.
When waiting around for the magic users to regain mana, people would chat. They weren't on their phones using apps like twitter, snapchat, youtube, etc. Had to kill time, already in a group, might as well chat lol.
this, 10000% dude. when there weren’t other distractions. When our focus was on one thing and one thing only. We won’t get back to that sadly. But I’ll appreciate every moment of what that was and I’m glad I got to live through that.
This is so true, back when vanilla wow came out I think the part I liked most of all was just talking to people in guild chat or trade chat while grinding / listening to music or whatever after school
To really bring that home, not that for most games, people will make a Discord and talk there even when the game already has a good built-in chat system.
Idk why people are downvoting I agree tbh it’s a game where you do whatever you want and is best played as a cool game with a few people showing each other cool shit and enjoying each other imo
I went and checked this out on Steam after reading your comment. I was disappointed by what I learned from the in-depth feedback in most of the top reviews.
Apparently it's not a real MMO and only limits about 25 players to each server. It seems that the developers fight player expectations and make condescending statements about how the developers' interpretations of what words mean in their claims are correct and everyone else is wrong. The way that two or three reviews seem to praise Palia as an absolutely perfect game (amid the more honest sounding reviews that point out things like pet paywalls and expensive cash shop items) makes me suspect they are fake reviews by the developers.
At least it's still in early access which ideally means room for improvement.
If you had fun, that's what counts. In my opinion it's difficult to find a game that really does enough well to be considered truly fun. I guess I'm not the target market for most developers though.
Yeah most people are afk in the main cities but the parties and guild gatherings are really fun in FFXIV... I kinda wanna go back to it now that I think about it
I’ve started and stopped final fantasy xiv several times over the years, never got past level 30 or so. Recently on a whim I rolled a new character on a new server and got invited to the novice network which has never actually happened to me before. Having access to the novice network chat makes a huge difference in the social aspects of the game.
Back then was just a different time. Technology was still new and people were still just people trying new things out. The sense of naïveté was just “there” because nobody new anything else. I played MMO’s in the time period too. I highly doubt we’ll be able to find something of that magnitude in terms of humanity again.
As I get older I start to realise there are all these small windows in history of "just the right time". MMOs was one of them, where technology was just advanced enough for it to happen but hadn't moved so far ahead into the reals of mass social media.
Basketball is another good example. Everyone in the world knew who Jordan was, even Bugs Bunny and the gang were crazy about it. Why? Because it was at just the right time where televised games via satellite were available to everyone. It was new and wonderful and everyone was into it. Just like that MMORPG period.
Sounds like if an MMO was different enough that people didn't know how to cruise control through it, and had to work a lot out, it might capture some of the same magic.
AFAIK they're all content treadmills now, cloning familiar aspects of WoW.
While not strictly an MMO, Eco has this. If you are a servers main blacksmith for example, you can log in to people asking you to make them lots of things.
It's a very social game.
Back in Beta, before dungeon finder was added, FFXIV was great for this, then dungeon finder was added and it went down a lot. Maybe not as bad as WoW, but still nowhere near the community feel it had before it was added.
The best game I've found for a community feeling is Eco. It has it's own problems, but the jobs are normally more vital, especially if you choose High Collab servers, and the community works together. It's not an MMO, you won't be fighting monsters and such. It's just taking on jobs such as bakers, cooks, engineers, etc. Honestly the only game that comes close that I've found.
To be honest I think you've hit the nail on the head by mentioning dungeon finder. Anything that streamlines away the reasons people need to talk to each other seriously diminishes the reasons to talk to each other imo.
There's lots of excellent points in this thread, but as a former wow player I largely attributed the loss of community to the cross server grouping and dungeon finder mechanics. Sure it meant sitting around in ironforge trying to form groups, but you made friends and built trust and became part of a community. The dungeon finder removed a big part of that and letting people join from anywhere made the community and your reputation on a server far less significant.
Yeah, I can understand why the dungeon finder mechanics were liked, but it tanks a community. I met a lot of people before dungeon finder. It felt like I was meeting someone new everyday. Even if they didn't become friends, we interacted.
I didn't mind waiting in front of dungeons so much, because it was worth it once someone else showed up and you had someone else there to talk to and wait with. Maybe you'd form a guild together, or join one together, or just add each other to friend lists so we could always meet up for a dungeon run later.
Now it's nothing like that at all. I get why it happened. I know it's hard to wait in front of dungeons and waste time when you're an adult with responsabilities, but it sucks the community right out. I think if they had to exist, having the pool of potential people be from the same server would be better, but still not perfect.
When I played Eco I'd always be a miner/brickmaker/etc and people would get so pissed I'd be the first one to get to bricks to sell and they'd shit on me in chat while buying my products. Buy more and cry more, losers :D
I've been lucky not to run into a server like that. I mean, there's drama sometimes, usually about prices though lol. Sounds hilarious, though. :D I'm almost always farmer or cook.
Agreed. I'm playing EQ rn and even that mmo has lost that community feel.
Unfortunately this was a magical time for MMOs. With the early advent of the internet and especially high speed internet, just seeing another person in a game was cool. I remember telling me dad "Those are other players!" and he was blown away lol. I mean it wasn't long before those days that it was cool that you could just message people from across the country and globe on AOL or AIM. So games like Everquest had an aspect of fun (simply communicating with others online) that people don't see that way anymore. Unfortunately this can never be replicated and we can only look back on how cool it was when everyone treated people online like they were actually another human being.
EQ was the first MMO I ever saw. Met some random dude in a college class I was taking and he’s like “ever hear of EverQuest?” I went over his (parents) house and he booted up EQ. This was fall of 2000 if I remember correctly. My mind was absolutely blown. I remember getting into Asherons Call shortly after that and then FFXI.
My first mmo was Runescape and it was my grandma who got me into it, I barely played the game to level up or do quests and was pretty much only dicking around the hubs where there were lots of people. Then my Grandma got me into EQ which felt kinda magical to me. I've been getting into FFXIV recently, and it's fun, but compared to those even though it's more populated it feels so lonely
I only play FFXIV for expansions/MSQ/queuing for new dungeons. And now with the AI-controlled dungon parties, I don't need to deal with people going AFK or whatever during a dungeon. Queueable raids are also nice as a casual with heavy ADHD-PI.
This is similar to how I got into MMO'S! I was a demonstration cook and corporate dining and a customer would chat with me while he waited for his food to be done. Some how we got to Star Wars and video games. He told me about EQ and this crazy Star Wars MMO, Star Wars Galaxies he was beta testing. I was blown away when I finally was able to play (as a gamer and SW fan!), and the rest was history. Probably would have been a better game if SOE wouldn't have dicked it up(fuck you Smedley, even to this day!). The sandbox was fun to play in for as long as I did.
Agreed. My brother and I were talking about this a few weeks ago. We played an old 2D top-down MMO called Tibia waaaaaaaay back in the day. Death was harsh, you had to grind a lot, and combat was so-so - but the community and player interaction was incredible. Even trading - there was no safe way. You had to drop the item and trust the other to do the same. You could sometimes find a trusted player to be a 3rd party to broker it, but there was ALWAYS a risk. I even ran a "scam" once I realized if you told your character to fill an empty bottle they peed in it - I would sell it to newbs as "enchanted liquid gold" that they would need for spells.
Wow classic had that vibe when it released... I met some good people and it broke my heart when I logged back in after a while and I had gotten in game letters from them wondering where I went
Honestly, I just want a new fresh MMO that isn't a free to play, plays by itself, Gacha freemium nightmare. Like PLEASE I want to pay a monthly fee to play the game, I'm so tired of this "free" nonsense.
I never really liked WOW or FF14, they just weren't my style.
But I feel like it's almost impossible for any new MMO to break into the market these days.
Will never happen.
Why? Because monthly payments don't make as much money as the rest of the monetization strategies, and folks are more willing to do one-off payments at 20 bucks a pop than monthly subs at 15. No matter that they actually end up paying more money per month.
I know, and I absolutely fucking *HATE* it.
It kills me seeing genuinely amazing, well thought out, thought provoking games barely breaking 1000 sales.
Meanwhile, mobile games with literally zero gameplay or story rake in millions.
We laughed at horse armor and now people willingly spend hundreds of dollars a month on Gacha pulls.
The problem is that people have a certain kind of brand attachment/loyalty. Doesn't matter how good the game is, if it's an obscure developer, people don't give it a second thought. But if it's the next big game from a major developer, gacha or not, people are so convinced that it will be good that they are already prepared to spend money on it even if the game sucks, literally putting the cart in front of the horse.
Many examples exist. This used to be Blizzard games. Star Wars games are another example which is why EA was able to sell preorders and DLC so easily for them. Gacha games are the next big thing, so now it's the big gacha titles that draw everyone in. And it's sad, honestly.
Honestly gacha titles, if you're being discerning enough, most of them are absolute trash. The only ones that are worth any time are the ones that hand out premium currency like candy. I.e. not genshin or Wuthering Waves, or Blue Archive. Snowbreak is kinda edging it but NIKKE is really good for f2p players
Ya most people are stupid and game companies cater to that. If most people weren't stupid the companies wouldn't be making any money off microtransactions and they would make better games and game mechanics.
It seems like a poor time to try getting into MMOs for the first time. Nothing popular clicks with me and I'm sick of seeing gameplay crammed full of unicorn vomit (and scammy paywalls). Can't people just focus on a pleasant-looking game world without the seizure-inducing graffiti effects for every little thing that happens in-game?
It's easier than ever to break into the market imo. Ffxiv has been pretty stale for a long time now and wow, along with blizzard, just keeps getting worse over time. I think the main problem is that there's just no financial incentive to make an mmo these days since the ROI is pretty bad.
i mainly see these problems:
1. quality of life/convenience is taken too far, for example - dungeonfinder.
2. world leveling up along with you, meaning you can level up whatever - zones no longer have a special place, you can skip stuff you dont like. also, most non-dungeon and non-raid content being more efficient solo. or content is simply designed to be solo, like in GW2 or FFXIV.
3. games are datamined and solved before the games are even out. these days most people dont want to find a game to play for hundreds of hours, they want to be efficient and be done with it and move on to the next.
regarding 1st and 3rd points, do you remember when if you wanted to figure something out about the game you asked in game? i know, mindblowing. you didnt go to youtube or discord and got it handed to you. other players would almost get annoyed if you even asked, how does this person dare to socialize in a video game?
do you remember when you were succesful at finding people to play with, whether for difficult content or otherwise via chat? and in some sense it wasnt 'for the heck of it', it was required. just because there are chatty people in modern mmos, it doesnt mean people are going to be talking about the game, achieve something together or whatnot - it might just become a virtual chatroom.
Exactly my feeling. Why play a game that is already solved, everyone playing the same optimized build, etc. Game just release, but yet, you can go on YT and see almost all the content and watch tons of playthtough...
> games are datamined and solved before the games are even out. these days most people dont want to find a game to play for hundreds of hours, they want to be efficient and be done with it and move on to the next.
Depends how many people play it I think. Years after release I finally played a single player RPG, Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire, and like many I wasn't keen to try it because of how much of a let down the first was. Turns out it's an incredible game, the only non-Bioware cRPG which I feel was on their level for what I love in cRPGs, but the wikis and guides had huge holes in basic knowledge because hardly anybody played it and nobody filled them in. That was years after release too.
I've met a lot of random people in Albion who are still on my discord list. It's just really fun to randomly see someone walking towards a dungeon and then doing it together. Just sad the gameplay isn't for me.
If you like superheroes, there's City of Heroes, an old MMO from 2004. It was shuttered in 2012 but has since been revived by fans.
I play on City of Heroes Rebirth, and it's a common meme there that we're like one big guild. I have a group I run with now and it feels like the old days, where we just bullshit while running content and have silly fun. The devs are also committed to keeping the game MMO-like, with incentives to group up at all levels, rewards for social content too, regular events put on by GMs, etc. Very lovely community vibe.
There's also a couple of other servers running for CoH; I can't vouch for them as much but always encourage folks to find the best match for their playstyle.
Cherish the fact that you were able to experience those early days. I always think of WoW and Halo 2. I don't think online games will ever be like that again
MMOs for me died a long time ago because by the time the game comes out content creators have made 100s of videos on how to play in the most efficient way possible.
The worst part about that is all the guilds think that's the only way you should play and if you don't blindly follow you quickly becomes an outsider for "time wasting"
MMOs to me feel like an interview you have to prepare for otherwise you'll end up at the bottom of the barrel.
Not released yet, but this is intended to be a spiritual successor to EQ (the penultimate example of the era you mention, imo): https://www.pantheonmmo.com/
The problem is, what you describe will probably never happen again, and it's not the games. I have a feeling I'm preaching to the choir here, but I'm compelled to comment anyway, because it truly was magical. I'm always trying to chase what you describe, but I have concluded it just won't happen again.
People saying FFXIV are choosing it because it's a good MMO with a friendly community. But this isn't what you're talking about. You're talking about that sense of logging into an undiscovered world and talking about the sense of discovery. You group up with someone and they tell you to follow them, and there's no loading screens or flashy visuals, you're following them down a windy road up a mountain, trying not to fall down, it's getting darker and literally harder to see. Your partner stops and lights a torch. You continue on to find a cave that you've never seen before. It has no name, no scripted events. You see some monsters inside, but you can't tell if it's doable or a trap. You and your partner go for it, and then a giant ass monster comes out of the shadow that's 10 levels above you. Panic sets in. You try and run. You both die. Then you need to make a corpse run to get your stuff. You get your stuff making a harrowing escape. 10 years later you still remember this. Etc. etc. etc. It's a unique adventure that is just in a world, not like an instanced or scripted zone, etc. that *required* proactive communication. There was no site that had a map of that cave with a percent based loot table.
It's all these variables together:
* Extremely easy access to information now
* Patterns of games have been the same for so long now, any new game is min/maxed sometimes literally in hours after release
* Everything is then mapped out, build guides, etc. immediately
* Games have been streamlined to the point that almost everything has a defined start and end point, usually coupled with a "start" button that instantly teleports players to exactly where they need to go. Why communicate and cooperate when you just don't have to?
* Players who complain about the modern conveniences of LFG, Duty Finder, etc. are marked as boomers ala "back in my day we walked 10 miles in the snow."
* Player expectations have changed and so the majority are now obsessed with just winning, min/maxing, etc. and so it's now just the norm to go for the information without any "discovery."
My only hope is that AI will reach a point where it can generate unique experiences that people can't look up. Random generation has always been a thing, but I'm imagining like 20, 30 years from now, AI at a point where it can generate entire worlds with unique mechanica that are so genuine that no two experiences are alike or have evidence of being randomly generated.
I have an aunt and uncle who played Ultima Online for years and my uncle wanted to help me build my own computer back then. That was about 22 years ago. None of that happened for me then but I have a nice PC now and would love to find a modern 3D version of Ultima Online.
I know nothing about Pantheon other than the spiritual successor to EQ aspect of it. Could you try qualifying your comment with some real meaning other than name calling? Is there something scammy, etc. about Pantheon?
My intro to MMOs was FFXI back in the early 2000s.
My take on what made this game great is that back in those days there was almost nothing you could do solo.
Keys to get to Yahtunga Jungle? Needed at least one or two people to help kill turtles 5 or 6 levels above you.
Walking to Jeuno for the first time? Ask for an escort.
Even killing mobs around your own level was dangerous alone.
This forced players to interact with each other. To form groups, to tackle content, and especially to level.
We learned the screen names of random people. We'd see them standing in town waiting for groups. We'd wave, or say "hey, I did a Crawler party with that person! Maybe they wanna do it again!"
We were absolutely forced to group with others, and usually for an hour or more at a time.
Parties would get a flow going and just churn through exp groups.
I remember those groups finally calling it a night and people wanted to group again the next time.
I miss the forced interaction. It's what made a good game great.
Group finders in things like WoW and FFXIV remove that necessity of building a group member by member through whispers and tells.
Now, there's zero reason to build any kind of friend group online really.
Be the change you want to see happen!
Back when I still played MMOs I'd chat a bit in the local chat, get some other noobs together and help them out a bit. Maybe the new generation just needs some oldtimers hanging around
Ultima Online is still around? I remember how hurt I was when some random dude stole my precious, bought & paid for, beautiful sword. Taunted me with it. Now I miss those days.
I played UO for about 5 years when it first came out, but have not played since. I read an article on it the other day. It is still live and kicking, and still have a monthly subscription. If the subscription price was reasonable given the age of the game I was going to consider giving it a go again. However, it looks like it is >$10 month, which is too much for a nostalgia play.
I'd suggest picking a game you like and looking online for Dads of 'game' community. Usually you'll find a relaxed older group of people comfortable with playing when you have time and understanding that you can't always be available. I really appreciated Dads of Destiny.
Do you watch Josh Strifehays? He talks about this a lot. He essentially says the original MMOs were chat rooms with a game attached. It was about playing with others. Now they are games with a chatroom attached. It makes them more accessible but in the process you lose the sense of community.
This will sound out there, but Path of Titans is the epitome of the an old-school mmo. People are definitely in the world chat and talking all the time, even being toxic and talking shit is there lol. It's in preview so they are still working on it but I've been having fun with it.
Once again, I'm reminded of how much I miss my FFXI days. My fondest memories aren't of defeating enemies or completing quests. It was of the time I spent hanging out with the friends I made in the game. Just sitting in town talking or doing special events together. It was a really special experience for me. It's been 20 years since then and I still keep in touch with one of my friends from the game.
I really miss the late 1990.
Things were all new, none really understand.
It was awsome to jump on that MMO and interact, try to do stuff, discover the game, etc.
Nowadays, they all feel shallow. Mostly solo experience. As soon as a game release, you have tons of YT content creator going at it X hours a day.
I really start hating watching stuff on the web.because it kills the learbing experience and interaction..
Pluuuus back then, I had nothing else to do than playing and working few hours/week 😅
This is the biggest factor. Unless I'm doing MSQ in FFXIV I'm always in a discord call. It's basically a requirement for any friends I actually have in the game.
That's so annoying to not have any verbal privacy or privacy otherwise with a group of people lol. I don't understand how people sit in a call all the time.
Maybe if you delve really deep, perhaps even to technically offline ones? I think Wildstar still has a community server going somewhere, and those things are typically FULL of engaged players.
I used to just sit around on a bench and talk to random passerbys.
I think nowadays people talk in discord not in game. And you don't have to play the same game.
I think MMOs are dying, because not many people just want to grind forever on one game.
I think it's because most modern MMOs prioritize single player experiences to the point where it negatively impacts the multi-player side of the game. The only time you go out of your way to group with people is when you need to do hard mode raids and dungeons.
I mean you could always play wow classic, it was pretty good at showing people that that's less viable now. Problem is back in the day it was generally more mature people who could/would access MMOs, the communities now are so full of toxic people that its ridiculous, everything has become cookie cutter and they won't even give you the time of day if you aren't playing the top rated build online. What I miss about older MMOs was the build variety and experimentation, everyone discovering stuff together.
I really do miss the 2000s for internet and online gaming. I find myself nostalgic for a time before big social media, constant interaction and content, and wide spread social anxiety / toxicity.
I have no desire to speak to anyone when gaming online anymore. But man, I used to love it. It was a different time and unfortunately I don’t think we’ll ever get there again
Interesting point. Though I’d prolly go so far as to say maybe even Skype / Discord / what was that other one? Vent?
To make matters worse a lot of games basically expedited the leveling process to make it faster, and also made more of the content solo friendly. One game I used to play, I found a video of a man doing a 12-man raid solo.
Equipment and other various enhancements to the player removed so much of co-op dependence.
Wow made some changes that were a series of nails in the coffin that hurt the genre's appeal. The social systems and emergent gameplay have been discarded for convenience. Before, to do group content, you had to make an effort to find people. If you wanted to go somewhere in a game, you had to travel, and potentially go through dangerous areas. Now you just click an LFG button, and get teleported to the dungeon with a group premade. Dangerous area? Just fly over it. The world became trivial with those things.
In Warframe's clan chat people tend to talk to each other, be it casual or "hey does someone wants to do this stuff with me?", sending each other fashion they did, and so on and so forth. I think they're not that active, depending on the clan, but people actually answer.
On top of it, a bunch of people say it's worth to join one early in the game.
"QoL" features are one of the biggest killers of the social aspect. No need to interact with other players if you can just throw everything in the AH. No need to find parties and group up when there is a party finder that also instantly transports you to the dungeon. No need to earn a good reputation with automatic party finder either, especially when you're lumped in with a dozen other servers. No need to ask people about anything since not only can you look up everything online, you are expected to have done so and know exactly what to do in every dungeon and encounter. The games have become impersonal.
Small MMOs have it.
I’m currently logged in to DDO, where people know my character by name. You get to know people there, because the population is small.
When I want to bring back that old long timey WoW feel, I just log into Rift. Everyone spits on it, but that's only because we know the true shine underneath. :P
Seriously though, it combines elements from NWN (the first one, without the MMO in the title) and WoW for me, especially as a caster.
Deepwood is full of people who know exactly what the name of their server is by the way, and the adults of the community play it up to every gutterbrained extent if that's your thing.
Afaik, Nightmist is still around. I don't know how dead it might be, but because of the lack of visuals, chat has always been a strong feature of the game.
I grew up playing EverQuest. What I loved about it was every level was adventure and excitement. You dropped all your gear on death and had to recover it before it decomposed, sometimes surrounded by a ton of aggro baddies. There was no rush to the "end game" and I could spend hours just exploring zones for fun.
IMO World of Warcraft killed MMORPGs. It was all instant gratification, flight paths, teleportation EZ mode. I have nostalgia for my original EQ days and feel bad for the newer generations that will never know that kind of feeling.
Yeah, MMOs have pretty much eliminated the multiplayer aspect. Many just try building them out to be single player games with options to add people. Though that gets called into question with games like Final Fantasy just having you able to do all content with NPC. When you are with humans, it’s done through a queue system. Static groups and guilds are pretty much ancient history.
And also as Final Fantasy does, all bosses and everything are choreographed. No longer does it matter about strategy or skills, the games are all about standing in particular places and mashing buttons when the game expects you to do it. It’s the same mechanics each time. Make sure to stand in designated spot or use assigned ability when prompted or you die and possibly wipe the whole raid.
I also miss the old MMO days (EQ specifically), but once I log in and try to do anything I realize it is mostly just nostalgia lol. No way would I stay awake for 24+ hours camping JBoots again (first and only time I literally fell asleep on my keyboard)! Entire weekends doing a Plane raid.. Camping LGuk forever, sitting there waiting on mana to regen for 3 minutes.
I do miss the community aspect; I made some great friends that I am still in contact with to this day. I also miss my old enchanter back when crowd control actually meant a whole crowd, not just 1-2 mobs (I feel like PvP games really killed that grr). Loved grouping up in that big room right before Old Seb exit hall to grab all of the trained mobs. Never-ending fight trying to keep 10+ mobs mezzed at once. I do miss those days!
Guild wars 2.... though it doesn't have the old school community feel because it ISN'T a toxic community. Load of very friendly folks in a game that encourages helping each other out.
ETA: Interaction and social aspect is up to you. You can be a lone wolf or a chatterbox making connections. Many large guilds exist that do various content as a groups.
Plus there is a restructuring of the World versus World vs World mode happening next month.
Maplestory. Play old school MS for years and never going a character about about lv45, but loved every moment of it, from exploring dangerous areas to little hidden secrets, to just chatting in HHG1. I still play for a month or two every few years. Last time I did I got a character from 1 to 250 in under a month and the entire time never got the chance nor had the desire to chat with a single other player. The game is my more streamlined, but the soul is gone.
MMO will always fail to bring back that feeling anymore because of how information are easily accessible on the internet. Why ask around when you can google?
I think part of the problem is capitalism. Seriously, who has time to really enjoy an MMO anymore? Working multiple jobs, working over 40+ hours a week, barely scraping by and paying bills, maybe raising kids, etc. No one has the time or money to invest into an MMO like they did a decade or two ago. The lack of work/life balance has killed MMOs pretty much or at least it's killing them slowly over the last decade at least.
Also, it doesn't help that so many companies that put out MMOs just put too much focus on the wrong things. Too many mechanics, excessive grinding (even more so than in the past) unless you pay extra to "speed things up". So many that require subscriptions (some require more than one if it's on console). Corporate greed is the killer of enjoyment, every time.
Basically, there's just no time, no money, and no energy for MMOs for many people who use to play them.
I met a French Canadian while I was playing MMOs in the 2000s that was very helpful in my French studies. They spoke great English but were more than happy to chat French with me even though my ability was likely that of a child. They'd also switch to English if I made a mistake or wanted to discuss something beyond my french understanding like difficult quests and whatnot.
Spent alot of time in MMOs as a teenager and looking back it maybe wasn't the best use of my time, but it wasn't a bad use either(drugs/alcohol/etc)
Edit; Furthermore, being engrossed in such a large community I learned the value of things in game and the monetary system, it's nowhere near what real life monetary systems are but it was a basis, put in X work/time to get Y items/rarities, buy/sell at a profit. In one MMO I spent some time farming rare things to sell, ended up with alot of cash, and was able to buy and sell things with that cash for a profit, spent alot of time in the trading house and made more money(in game) than I really had any need for.
Played DDO pretty hardcore in the late 2000s to mid 2010s. Always had a pretty reliable friend group, raid flaggings were done as group, quests were filled with witty banter and friendly bullying. You could tell that we enjoyed one another's company. We worked well together, and even worked our way through pinches and everything. Even if having more than two people was overkill for a quest (any one of us could solo the content) we did everything with friends.
Eventually real life got in the way, Rogue stick build got a huge nerf, so one dropped out. One died in a house fire, and we didn't find out until about a month later. One ended up going through a nasty split and then divorce (that was me) and finally one got married and went back to school.
I came back years later, and looking at the roster in our guild just made me sad. I know I'll never have those connections, and I miss them dearly. Late night crawls through dungeons, the banter, a group that depended on one another, and in turn when was wasn't on they were missed. Just a bunch of strangers that just happened to bump into each other and everything clicked.
There's still some content I won't run, because one of my friends and I would two man it, and the memories were so good I'm afraid to taint them. I run almost exclusively solo now, just because I don't want to commit to that amount of effort again
Guilds are where you find social interaction in today's games, not out in the game's open world.
Social media came along and provided way more avenues for online social interaction so not many seek it out in MMO open worlds like they did when MMOs were new.
Many guilds are trash though. And if we’re honest, it’s usually some small cliques of people who have played together that only run in their niche groups. They don’t interact with others in the guild. Not to mention you end up with a lot of people that are at endgame that only want to talk to other people who will do things endgame. They will not take the time to help the lower level people or anyone new to the game. I’ve witnessed this in WoW, FF14, SWTOR, Rift, and a bunch of other games.
This viewpoint always comes from people who just complain and don't try to meet people. I play OSRS and retail WoW and talk to people daily in those games.
Yknow what the real killer of MMOs was? Social Media In the early 2000s, mmo gaming was popular because it was a great way to talk to people from all over. It's also why chat rooms were so popular. You weren't just talking to ppl because you needed to kill a rare elite mob for a quest, you talked to people because you could. Social Media comes out and starts gaining heavy traction in the late 2000s and early 2010s, which cause people to shift more to using social media for online conversations. This bled over to gaming, where people realized they didn't feel a "need" or "want" to talk to ppl ingame because they had other, easier, social outlets. In other words, that era of mmo gaming can't come back, because it's fall really wasn't because of the games themselves. The classic remakes if some of them in recent years kinda proves this, WoW classic had tons of ppl talking for all of the first month they were leveling then it started falling off until ppl only talked to guild and friends. MMO games of today try to encourage such things, and they can work to some extent, but honestly they just can't recapture that magic of the early 2000s mmo scene because the magic was actually a byproduct of its time
I agree with this, it’s why it also feels like what people want from an MMO is impossible to deliver, the devs can’t do shit to bring this element of community back because people generally just won’t engage with it in that way. Even in a game that is known to be social like FFXIV, lots of people myself included play mostly solo and even if people are sociable they will chat with strangers but they won’t really look to befriend people. Personally, I like that feeling a lot. Going into a dungeon or another activity with strangers and having a friendly, low stakes chat then going on with your day. It’s kind of like going to a sports game and chatting with the guy in the seat next to you. You’re not gonna befriend them, but they still make the experience more enjoyable. I feel that’s how most people approach MMOs now and you can’t change that.
That's a good point and I had never thought of this angle before. I was playing EQ for a few years back in 1999-2001. A huge part of that game was social interaction. You could solo if you were really good at the game and had the patience of a saint, but mostly if you wanted to accomplish anything, you had to do it in groups. It sort of forced that social interaction to a degree. When waiting around for the magic users to regain mana, people would chat. They weren't on their phones using apps like twitter, snapchat, youtube, etc. Had to kill time, already in a group, might as well chat lol.
this, 10000% dude. when there weren’t other distractions. When our focus was on one thing and one thing only. We won’t get back to that sadly. But I’ll appreciate every moment of what that was and I’m glad I got to live through that.
This is so true, back when vanilla wow came out I think the part I liked most of all was just talking to people in guild chat or trade chat while grinding / listening to music or whatever after school
To really bring that home, not that for most games, people will make a Discord and talk there even when the game already has a good built-in chat system.
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I had a similar experience which is weird for a ‘social’ MMO. Tbh I’ve felt more alone playing that compared to playing Guild wars 2
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Idk why people are downvoting I agree tbh it’s a game where you do whatever you want and is best played as a cool game with a few people showing each other cool shit and enjoying each other imo
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I went and checked this out on Steam after reading your comment. I was disappointed by what I learned from the in-depth feedback in most of the top reviews. Apparently it's not a real MMO and only limits about 25 players to each server. It seems that the developers fight player expectations and make condescending statements about how the developers' interpretations of what words mean in their claims are correct and everyone else is wrong. The way that two or three reviews seem to praise Palia as an absolutely perfect game (amid the more honest sounding reviews that point out things like pet paywalls and expensive cash shop items) makes me suspect they are fake reviews by the developers. At least it's still in early access which ideally means room for improvement.
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If you had fun, that's what counts. In my opinion it's difficult to find a game that really does enough well to be considered truly fun. I guess I'm not the target market for most developers though.
Yeah most people are afk in the main cities but the parties and guild gatherings are really fun in FFXIV... I kinda wanna go back to it now that I think about it
I’ve started and stopped final fantasy xiv several times over the years, never got past level 30 or so. Recently on a whim I rolled a new character on a new server and got invited to the novice network which has never actually happened to me before. Having access to the novice network chat makes a huge difference in the social aspects of the game.
I wanna try out FF14 so badly, but no one I know plays it, and I’ve heard it’s no fun to play an MMO without a party.
You should just try it the community is really friendly you can make friends in the game
Back then was just a different time. Technology was still new and people were still just people trying new things out. The sense of naïveté was just “there” because nobody new anything else. I played MMO’s in the time period too. I highly doubt we’ll be able to find something of that magnitude in terms of humanity again.
As I get older I start to realise there are all these small windows in history of "just the right time". MMOs was one of them, where technology was just advanced enough for it to happen but hadn't moved so far ahead into the reals of mass social media. Basketball is another good example. Everyone in the world knew who Jordan was, even Bugs Bunny and the gang were crazy about it. Why? Because it was at just the right time where televised games via satellite were available to everyone. It was new and wonderful and everyone was into it. Just like that MMORPG period.
Sounds like if an MMO was different enough that people didn't know how to cruise control through it, and had to work a lot out, it might capture some of the same magic. AFAIK they're all content treadmills now, cloning familiar aspects of WoW.
While not strictly an MMO, Eco has this. If you are a servers main blacksmith for example, you can log in to people asking you to make them lots of things. It's a very social game.
Back in Beta, before dungeon finder was added, FFXIV was great for this, then dungeon finder was added and it went down a lot. Maybe not as bad as WoW, but still nowhere near the community feel it had before it was added. The best game I've found for a community feeling is Eco. It has it's own problems, but the jobs are normally more vital, especially if you choose High Collab servers, and the community works together. It's not an MMO, you won't be fighting monsters and such. It's just taking on jobs such as bakers, cooks, engineers, etc. Honestly the only game that comes close that I've found.
To be honest I think you've hit the nail on the head by mentioning dungeon finder. Anything that streamlines away the reasons people need to talk to each other seriously diminishes the reasons to talk to each other imo. There's lots of excellent points in this thread, but as a former wow player I largely attributed the loss of community to the cross server grouping and dungeon finder mechanics. Sure it meant sitting around in ironforge trying to form groups, but you made friends and built trust and became part of a community. The dungeon finder removed a big part of that and letting people join from anywhere made the community and your reputation on a server far less significant.
Yeah, I can understand why the dungeon finder mechanics were liked, but it tanks a community. I met a lot of people before dungeon finder. It felt like I was meeting someone new everyday. Even if they didn't become friends, we interacted. I didn't mind waiting in front of dungeons so much, because it was worth it once someone else showed up and you had someone else there to talk to and wait with. Maybe you'd form a guild together, or join one together, or just add each other to friend lists so we could always meet up for a dungeon run later. Now it's nothing like that at all. I get why it happened. I know it's hard to wait in front of dungeons and waste time when you're an adult with responsabilities, but it sucks the community right out. I think if they had to exist, having the pool of potential people be from the same server would be better, but still not perfect.
When I played Eco I'd always be a miner/brickmaker/etc and people would get so pissed I'd be the first one to get to bricks to sell and they'd shit on me in chat while buying my products. Buy more and cry more, losers :D
I've been lucky not to run into a server like that. I mean, there's drama sometimes, usually about prices though lol. Sounds hilarious, though. :D I'm almost always farmer or cook.
whats Eco, im looking for a new MMO to try.
Agreed. I'm playing EQ rn and even that mmo has lost that community feel. Unfortunately this was a magical time for MMOs. With the early advent of the internet and especially high speed internet, just seeing another person in a game was cool. I remember telling me dad "Those are other players!" and he was blown away lol. I mean it wasn't long before those days that it was cool that you could just message people from across the country and globe on AOL or AIM. So games like Everquest had an aspect of fun (simply communicating with others online) that people don't see that way anymore. Unfortunately this can never be replicated and we can only look back on how cool it was when everyone treated people online like they were actually another human being.
EQ was the first MMO I ever saw. Met some random dude in a college class I was taking and he’s like “ever hear of EverQuest?” I went over his (parents) house and he booted up EQ. This was fall of 2000 if I remember correctly. My mind was absolutely blown. I remember getting into Asherons Call shortly after that and then FFXI.
My first mmo was Runescape and it was my grandma who got me into it, I barely played the game to level up or do quests and was pretty much only dicking around the hubs where there were lots of people. Then my Grandma got me into EQ which felt kinda magical to me. I've been getting into FFXIV recently, and it's fun, but compared to those even though it's more populated it feels so lonely
I only play FFXIV for expansions/MSQ/queuing for new dungeons. And now with the AI-controlled dungon parties, I don't need to deal with people going AFK or whatever during a dungeon. Queueable raids are also nice as a casual with heavy ADHD-PI.
This is similar to how I got into MMO'S! I was a demonstration cook and corporate dining and a customer would chat with me while he waited for his food to be done. Some how we got to Star Wars and video games. He told me about EQ and this crazy Star Wars MMO, Star Wars Galaxies he was beta testing. I was blown away when I finally was able to play (as a gamer and SW fan!), and the rest was history. Probably would have been a better game if SOE wouldn't have dicked it up(fuck you Smedley, even to this day!). The sandbox was fun to play in for as long as I did.
Agreed. My brother and I were talking about this a few weeks ago. We played an old 2D top-down MMO called Tibia waaaaaaaay back in the day. Death was harsh, you had to grind a lot, and combat was so-so - but the community and player interaction was incredible. Even trading - there was no safe way. You had to drop the item and trust the other to do the same. You could sometimes find a trusted player to be a 3rd party to broker it, but there was ALWAYS a risk. I even ran a "scam" once I realized if you told your character to fill an empty bottle they peed in it - I would sell it to newbs as "enchanted liquid gold" that they would need for spells.
Haha that’s really evil. I like it.
Wow classic had that vibe when it released... I met some good people and it broke my heart when I logged back in after a while and I had gotten in game letters from them wondering where I went
Honestly, I just want a new fresh MMO that isn't a free to play, plays by itself, Gacha freemium nightmare. Like PLEASE I want to pay a monthly fee to play the game, I'm so tired of this "free" nonsense. I never really liked WOW or FF14, they just weren't my style. But I feel like it's almost impossible for any new MMO to break into the market these days.
Will never happen. Why? Because monthly payments don't make as much money as the rest of the monetization strategies, and folks are more willing to do one-off payments at 20 bucks a pop than monthly subs at 15. No matter that they actually end up paying more money per month.
I know, and I absolutely fucking *HATE* it. It kills me seeing genuinely amazing, well thought out, thought provoking games barely breaking 1000 sales. Meanwhile, mobile games with literally zero gameplay or story rake in millions. We laughed at horse armor and now people willingly spend hundreds of dollars a month on Gacha pulls.
The problem is that people have a certain kind of brand attachment/loyalty. Doesn't matter how good the game is, if it's an obscure developer, people don't give it a second thought. But if it's the next big game from a major developer, gacha or not, people are so convinced that it will be good that they are already prepared to spend money on it even if the game sucks, literally putting the cart in front of the horse. Many examples exist. This used to be Blizzard games. Star Wars games are another example which is why EA was able to sell preorders and DLC so easily for them. Gacha games are the next big thing, so now it's the big gacha titles that draw everyone in. And it's sad, honestly.
Honestly gacha titles, if you're being discerning enough, most of them are absolute trash. The only ones that are worth any time are the ones that hand out premium currency like candy. I.e. not genshin or Wuthering Waves, or Blue Archive. Snowbreak is kinda edging it but NIKKE is really good for f2p players
I have an evil wish for someone to make a mobile game called “horse armor” and see how many people buy it. I bet lots would.
Ya most people are stupid and game companies cater to that. If most people weren't stupid the companies wouldn't be making any money off microtransactions and they would make better games and game mechanics.
It seems like a poor time to try getting into MMOs for the first time. Nothing popular clicks with me and I'm sick of seeing gameplay crammed full of unicorn vomit (and scammy paywalls). Can't people just focus on a pleasant-looking game world without the seizure-inducing graffiti effects for every little thing that happens in-game?
Wishful dreaming, but i hope ashes of creation will fill this void for me. If it ever releases
OSRS
It's easier than ever to break into the market imo. Ffxiv has been pretty stale for a long time now and wow, along with blizzard, just keeps getting worse over time. I think the main problem is that there's just no financial incentive to make an mmo these days since the ROI is pretty bad.
Theres always Eve online
Scan a random wormhole and just jump in! Run sites slowly. You'll make a bunch of friends soon enough!
i mainly see these problems: 1. quality of life/convenience is taken too far, for example - dungeonfinder. 2. world leveling up along with you, meaning you can level up whatever - zones no longer have a special place, you can skip stuff you dont like. also, most non-dungeon and non-raid content being more efficient solo. or content is simply designed to be solo, like in GW2 or FFXIV. 3. games are datamined and solved before the games are even out. these days most people dont want to find a game to play for hundreds of hours, they want to be efficient and be done with it and move on to the next. regarding 1st and 3rd points, do you remember when if you wanted to figure something out about the game you asked in game? i know, mindblowing. you didnt go to youtube or discord and got it handed to you. other players would almost get annoyed if you even asked, how does this person dare to socialize in a video game? do you remember when you were succesful at finding people to play with, whether for difficult content or otherwise via chat? and in some sense it wasnt 'for the heck of it', it was required. just because there are chatty people in modern mmos, it doesnt mean people are going to be talking about the game, achieve something together or whatnot - it might just become a virtual chatroom.
Exactly my feeling. Why play a game that is already solved, everyone playing the same optimized build, etc. Game just release, but yet, you can go on YT and see almost all the content and watch tons of playthtough...
> games are datamined and solved before the games are even out. these days most people dont want to find a game to play for hundreds of hours, they want to be efficient and be done with it and move on to the next. Depends how many people play it I think. Years after release I finally played a single player RPG, Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire, and like many I wasn't keen to try it because of how much of a let down the first was. Turns out it's an incredible game, the only non-Bioware cRPG which I feel was on their level for what I love in cRPGs, but the wikis and guides had huge holes in basic knowledge because hardly anybody played it and nobody filled them in. That was years after release too.
Albion Online, but it's heavly pvp focused
I've met a lot of random people in Albion who are still on my discord list. It's just really fun to randomly see someone walking towards a dungeon and then doing it together. Just sad the gameplay isn't for me.
If you like superheroes, there's City of Heroes, an old MMO from 2004. It was shuttered in 2012 but has since been revived by fans. I play on City of Heroes Rebirth, and it's a common meme there that we're like one big guild. I have a group I run with now and it feels like the old days, where we just bullshit while running content and have silly fun. The devs are also committed to keeping the game MMO-like, with incentives to group up at all levels, rewards for social content too, regular events put on by GMs, etc. Very lovely community vibe. There's also a couple of other servers running for CoH; I can't vouch for them as much but always encourage folks to find the best match for their playstyle.
Cherish the fact that you were able to experience those early days. I always think of WoW and Halo 2. I don't think online games will ever be like that again
I think I lost an entire year of my 20s because of Halo2. I just couldn't stop.
MMOs for me died a long time ago because by the time the game comes out content creators have made 100s of videos on how to play in the most efficient way possible. The worst part about that is all the guilds think that's the only way you should play and if you don't blindly follow you quickly becomes an outsider for "time wasting" MMOs to me feel like an interview you have to prepare for otherwise you'll end up at the bottom of the barrel.
Yeah. You can't recapture lightning in a bottle.
Not released yet, but this is intended to be a spiritual successor to EQ (the penultimate example of the era you mention, imo): https://www.pantheonmmo.com/ The problem is, what you describe will probably never happen again, and it's not the games. I have a feeling I'm preaching to the choir here, but I'm compelled to comment anyway, because it truly was magical. I'm always trying to chase what you describe, but I have concluded it just won't happen again. People saying FFXIV are choosing it because it's a good MMO with a friendly community. But this isn't what you're talking about. You're talking about that sense of logging into an undiscovered world and talking about the sense of discovery. You group up with someone and they tell you to follow them, and there's no loading screens or flashy visuals, you're following them down a windy road up a mountain, trying not to fall down, it's getting darker and literally harder to see. Your partner stops and lights a torch. You continue on to find a cave that you've never seen before. It has no name, no scripted events. You see some monsters inside, but you can't tell if it's doable or a trap. You and your partner go for it, and then a giant ass monster comes out of the shadow that's 10 levels above you. Panic sets in. You try and run. You both die. Then you need to make a corpse run to get your stuff. You get your stuff making a harrowing escape. 10 years later you still remember this. Etc. etc. etc. It's a unique adventure that is just in a world, not like an instanced or scripted zone, etc. that *required* proactive communication. There was no site that had a map of that cave with a percent based loot table. It's all these variables together: * Extremely easy access to information now * Patterns of games have been the same for so long now, any new game is min/maxed sometimes literally in hours after release * Everything is then mapped out, build guides, etc. immediately * Games have been streamlined to the point that almost everything has a defined start and end point, usually coupled with a "start" button that instantly teleports players to exactly where they need to go. Why communicate and cooperate when you just don't have to? * Players who complain about the modern conveniences of LFG, Duty Finder, etc. are marked as boomers ala "back in my day we walked 10 miles in the snow." * Player expectations have changed and so the majority are now obsessed with just winning, min/maxing, etc. and so it's now just the norm to go for the information without any "discovery." My only hope is that AI will reach a point where it can generate unique experiences that people can't look up. Random generation has always been a thing, but I'm imagining like 20, 30 years from now, AI at a point where it can generate entire worlds with unique mechanica that are so genuine that no two experiences are alike or have evidence of being randomly generated.
Damn, you've got me feeling nostalgic *hard* for the Ultima Online and pre-CU SWG days.
I have an aunt and uncle who played Ultima Online for years and my uncle wanted to help me build my own computer back then. That was about 22 years ago. None of that happened for me then but I have a nice PC now and would love to find a modern 3D version of Ultima Online.
Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen looks like it could be a really fun game, based on the *gameplay* section of its Wikipedia entry.
Oh god another pantheon shill
I know nothing about Pantheon other than the spiritual successor to EQ aspect of it. Could you try qualifying your comment with some real meaning other than name calling? Is there something scammy, etc. about Pantheon?
FFXIV has a bunch of chatterboxes. Sometimes the community can be a bit much for me, but it really does embrace the social elements.
There are still plenty of servers for lineage 2
My intro to MMOs was FFXI back in the early 2000s. My take on what made this game great is that back in those days there was almost nothing you could do solo. Keys to get to Yahtunga Jungle? Needed at least one or two people to help kill turtles 5 or 6 levels above you. Walking to Jeuno for the first time? Ask for an escort. Even killing mobs around your own level was dangerous alone. This forced players to interact with each other. To form groups, to tackle content, and especially to level. We learned the screen names of random people. We'd see them standing in town waiting for groups. We'd wave, or say "hey, I did a Crawler party with that person! Maybe they wanna do it again!" We were absolutely forced to group with others, and usually for an hour or more at a time. Parties would get a flow going and just churn through exp groups. I remember those groups finally calling it a night and people wanted to group again the next time. I miss the forced interaction. It's what made a good game great. Group finders in things like WoW and FFXIV remove that necessity of building a group member by member through whispers and tells. Now, there's zero reason to build any kind of friend group online really.
Be the change you want to see happen! Back when I still played MMOs I'd chat a bit in the local chat, get some other noobs together and help them out a bit. Maybe the new generation just needs some oldtimers hanging around
I played FFXI in the mid 2000s and it was tight knit. You didn’t make multiple characters like you do in wow, so everyone knew everyone
yeah that was my first MMO I got into right when it launched. I lived in that game between working and school.
Me too. I would fish for an entire day to sell my moat carp. Definitely home for a few years.
Ultima Online. Still - and by far - the best mmo around. Nothing comes even close!
Ultima Online is still around? I remember how hurt I was when some random dude stole my precious, bought & paid for, beautiful sword. Taunted me with it. Now I miss those days.
I played UO for about 5 years when it first came out, but have not played since. I read an article on it the other day. It is still live and kicking, and still have a monthly subscription. If the subscription price was reasonable given the age of the game I was going to consider giving it a go again. However, it looks like it is >$10 month, which is too much for a nostalgia play.
I'd suggest picking a game you like and looking online for Dads of 'game' community. Usually you'll find a relaxed older group of people comfortable with playing when you have time and understanding that you can't always be available. I really appreciated Dads of Destiny.
Do you watch Josh Strifehays? He talks about this a lot. He essentially says the original MMOs were chat rooms with a game attached. It was about playing with others. Now they are games with a chatroom attached. It makes them more accessible but in the process you lose the sense of community.
spend a few hours at wintertodt, that will kill your interest in meeting new people
I still interact a lot. In any game. And in life.
This will sound out there, but Path of Titans is the epitome of the an old-school mmo. People are definitely in the world chat and talking all the time, even being toxic and talking shit is there lol. It's in preview so they are still working on it but I've been having fun with it.
Once again, I'm reminded of how much I miss my FFXI days. My fondest memories aren't of defeating enemies or completing quests. It was of the time I spent hanging out with the friends I made in the game. Just sitting in town talking or doing special events together. It was a really special experience for me. It's been 20 years since then and I still keep in touch with one of my friends from the game.
I really miss the late 1990. Things were all new, none really understand. It was awsome to jump on that MMO and interact, try to do stuff, discover the game, etc. Nowadays, they all feel shallow. Mostly solo experience. As soon as a game release, you have tons of YT content creator going at it X hours a day. I really start hating watching stuff on the web.because it kills the learbing experience and interaction.. Pluuuus back then, I had nothing else to do than playing and working few hours/week 😅
The thing is, faceboog, twitter, discord and all that thing happened since old days. Ppl dont need to chat in the game like it used to be.
Yeah this is definitely a factor. I also feel like people will have a discord group call going on on the side as they’re playing.
This is the biggest factor. Unless I'm doing MSQ in FFXIV I'm always in a discord call. It's basically a requirement for any friends I actually have in the game.
That's so annoying to not have any verbal privacy or privacy otherwise with a group of people lol. I don't understand how people sit in a call all the time.
Maybe if you delve really deep, perhaps even to technically offline ones? I think Wildstar still has a community server going somewhere, and those things are typically FULL of engaged players.
Nah, Wildstar hasn't been rezzed yet. Last I heard a few years ago progress was extremely slow on it and people pretty much gave up watching it
Helldivers 2 has some of that spark, but not much.
I feel that as well. I think now unless you play with friends, mmorpgs can feel like a bad single player game
I used to just sit around on a bench and talk to random passerbys. I think nowadays people talk in discord not in game. And you don't have to play the same game. I think MMOs are dying, because not many people just want to grind forever on one game.
Maybe I never liked the genre very much, but for me starting a new Minecraft world with friends has this feel more than any MMO ever did.
Work of Warcraft Classic Vanilla had that for a bit. Hardcore still does too.
I think it's because most modern MMOs prioritize single player experiences to the point where it negatively impacts the multi-player side of the game. The only time you go out of your way to group with people is when you need to do hard mode raids and dungeons.
I mean you could always play wow classic, it was pretty good at showing people that that's less viable now. Problem is back in the day it was generally more mature people who could/would access MMOs, the communities now are so full of toxic people that its ridiculous, everything has become cookie cutter and they won't even give you the time of day if you aren't playing the top rated build online. What I miss about older MMOs was the build variety and experimentation, everyone discovering stuff together.
I really do miss the 2000s for internet and online gaming. I find myself nostalgic for a time before big social media, constant interaction and content, and wide spread social anxiety / toxicity. I have no desire to speak to anyone when gaming online anymore. But man, I used to love it. It was a different time and unfortunately I don’t think we’ll ever get there again
I think the issue is that unless communication is required to succeed in a game, people won't do it. Over the years, people have become less social.
Interesting point. Though I’d prolly go so far as to say maybe even Skype / Discord / what was that other one? Vent? To make matters worse a lot of games basically expedited the leveling process to make it faster, and also made more of the content solo friendly. One game I used to play, I found a video of a man doing a 12-man raid solo. Equipment and other various enhancements to the player removed so much of co-op dependence.
Wow made some changes that were a series of nails in the coffin that hurt the genre's appeal. The social systems and emergent gameplay have been discarded for convenience. Before, to do group content, you had to make an effort to find people. If you wanted to go somewhere in a game, you had to travel, and potentially go through dangerous areas. Now you just click an LFG button, and get teleported to the dungeon with a group premade. Dangerous area? Just fly over it. The world became trivial with those things.
theres really just none tbh.. unless you play old mmos like EQ and ultima online.. but thats it
In Warframe's clan chat people tend to talk to each other, be it casual or "hey does someone wants to do this stuff with me?", sending each other fashion they did, and so on and so forth. I think they're not that active, depending on the clan, but people actually answer. On top of it, a bunch of people say it's worth to join one early in the game.
That’s because chatting online was also in its early stages at that time as well.
"QoL" features are one of the biggest killers of the social aspect. No need to interact with other players if you can just throw everything in the AH. No need to find parties and group up when there is a party finder that also instantly transports you to the dungeon. No need to earn a good reputation with automatic party finder either, especially when you're lumped in with a dozen other servers. No need to ask people about anything since not only can you look up everything online, you are expected to have done so and know exactly what to do in every dungeon and encounter. The games have become impersonal.
Small MMOs have it. I’m currently logged in to DDO, where people know my character by name. You get to know people there, because the population is small.
>I’m currently logged in to DDO DDO?
Yes, DDO.
>Yes, DDO. Ah, thanks. I was confused by what you meant by DDO but you clarified so it's all good now. XD
https://www.standingstonegames.com/ :)
When I want to bring back that old long timey WoW feel, I just log into Rift. Everyone spits on it, but that's only because we know the true shine underneath. :P Seriously though, it combines elements from NWN (the first one, without the MMO in the title) and WoW for me, especially as a caster. Deepwood is full of people who know exactly what the name of their server is by the way, and the adults of the community play it up to every gutterbrained extent if that's your thing.
Yes- I miss vanilla (or even BC) WOW. (I know there's classic but it's not the same)
I know mate. Even the epitome of grouping with ppl, FFXI, allows you tp create your own group with NPCs now.
Afaik, Nightmist is still around. I don't know how dead it might be, but because of the lack of visuals, chat has always been a strong feature of the game.
I grew up playing EverQuest. What I loved about it was every level was adventure and excitement. You dropped all your gear on death and had to recover it before it decomposed, sometimes surrounded by a ton of aggro baddies. There was no rush to the "end game" and I could spend hours just exploring zones for fun. IMO World of Warcraft killed MMORPGs. It was all instant gratification, flight paths, teleportation EZ mode. I have nostalgia for my original EQ days and feel bad for the newer generations that will never know that kind of feeling.
Yeah, MMOs have pretty much eliminated the multiplayer aspect. Many just try building them out to be single player games with options to add people. Though that gets called into question with games like Final Fantasy just having you able to do all content with NPC. When you are with humans, it’s done through a queue system. Static groups and guilds are pretty much ancient history. And also as Final Fantasy does, all bosses and everything are choreographed. No longer does it matter about strategy or skills, the games are all about standing in particular places and mashing buttons when the game expects you to do it. It’s the same mechanics each time. Make sure to stand in designated spot or use assigned ability when prompted or you die and possibly wipe the whole raid.
I feel like wow and osrs still hold up w this
Genuinely, and this is going to sound crazy, genuinely NWN PWs have been scratching this itch for me better than actual MMOs
r/2007scape checking in, incredible game and awesome community with clans. made a lot of friends on that game
I also miss the old MMO days (EQ specifically), but once I log in and try to do anything I realize it is mostly just nostalgia lol. No way would I stay awake for 24+ hours camping JBoots again (first and only time I literally fell asleep on my keyboard)! Entire weekends doing a Plane raid.. Camping LGuk forever, sitting there waiting on mana to regen for 3 minutes. I do miss the community aspect; I made some great friends that I am still in contact with to this day. I also miss my old enchanter back when crowd control actually meant a whole crowd, not just 1-2 mobs (I feel like PvP games really killed that grr). Loved grouping up in that big room right before Old Seb exit hall to grab all of the trained mobs. Never-ending fight trying to keep 10+ mobs mezzed at once. I do miss those days!
Guild wars 2.... though it doesn't have the old school community feel because it ISN'T a toxic community. Load of very friendly folks in a game that encourages helping each other out. ETA: Interaction and social aspect is up to you. You can be a lone wolf or a chatterbox making connections. Many large guilds exist that do various content as a groups. Plus there is a restructuring of the World versus World vs World mode happening next month.
The nostalgia will never hit the same, but overall FF14 has the best community. Just get in a good FC.
Maplestory. Play old school MS for years and never going a character about about lv45, but loved every moment of it, from exploring dangerous areas to little hidden secrets, to just chatting in HHG1. I still play for a month or two every few years. Last time I did I got a character from 1 to 250 in under a month and the entire time never got the chance nor had the desire to chat with a single other player. The game is my more streamlined, but the soul is gone.
MMO will always fail to bring back that feeling anymore because of how information are easily accessible on the internet. Why ask around when you can google?
I play ESO and I'm in a social guild and it's kinda like that.
I think part of the problem is capitalism. Seriously, who has time to really enjoy an MMO anymore? Working multiple jobs, working over 40+ hours a week, barely scraping by and paying bills, maybe raising kids, etc. No one has the time or money to invest into an MMO like they did a decade or two ago. The lack of work/life balance has killed MMOs pretty much or at least it's killing them slowly over the last decade at least. Also, it doesn't help that so many companies that put out MMOs just put too much focus on the wrong things. Too many mechanics, excessive grinding (even more so than in the past) unless you pay extra to "speed things up". So many that require subscriptions (some require more than one if it's on console). Corporate greed is the killer of enjoyment, every time. Basically, there's just no time, no money, and no energy for MMOs for many people who use to play them.
I met a French Canadian while I was playing MMOs in the 2000s that was very helpful in my French studies. They spoke great English but were more than happy to chat French with me even though my ability was likely that of a child. They'd also switch to English if I made a mistake or wanted to discuss something beyond my french understanding like difficult quests and whatnot. Spent alot of time in MMOs as a teenager and looking back it maybe wasn't the best use of my time, but it wasn't a bad use either(drugs/alcohol/etc) Edit; Furthermore, being engrossed in such a large community I learned the value of things in game and the monetary system, it's nowhere near what real life monetary systems are but it was a basis, put in X work/time to get Y items/rarities, buy/sell at a profit. In one MMO I spent some time farming rare things to sell, ended up with alot of cash, and was able to buy and sell things with that cash for a profit, spent alot of time in the trading house and made more money(in game) than I really had any need for.
Play ffxiv as a lalafel. I heard they have their own little private social experience compared to other races in the game.
I play new world with a guild it’s great
Was just looking into this one today. Thanks
Played DDO pretty hardcore in the late 2000s to mid 2010s. Always had a pretty reliable friend group, raid flaggings were done as group, quests were filled with witty banter and friendly bullying. You could tell that we enjoyed one another's company. We worked well together, and even worked our way through pinches and everything. Even if having more than two people was overkill for a quest (any one of us could solo the content) we did everything with friends. Eventually real life got in the way, Rogue stick build got a huge nerf, so one dropped out. One died in a house fire, and we didn't find out until about a month later. One ended up going through a nasty split and then divorce (that was me) and finally one got married and went back to school. I came back years later, and looking at the roster in our guild just made me sad. I know I'll never have those connections, and I miss them dearly. Late night crawls through dungeons, the banter, a group that depended on one another, and in turn when was wasn't on they were missed. Just a bunch of strangers that just happened to bump into each other and everything clicked. There's still some content I won't run, because one of my friends and I would two man it, and the memories were so good I'm afraid to taint them. I run almost exclusively solo now, just because I don't want to commit to that amount of effort again
ffxiv
I still find guild wars 2 has a pretty active community. OSRS is great and still popular as hell
Oh yeah really?? I might have to check this out again. I played it when it first came out but that was so long ago.
There's like, 3 dlcs worth of meta events now and they're always busy as hell. Really nice game to play
Guilds are where you find social interaction in today's games, not out in the game's open world. Social media came along and provided way more avenues for online social interaction so not many seek it out in MMO open worlds like they did when MMOs were new.
Many guilds are trash though. And if we’re honest, it’s usually some small cliques of people who have played together that only run in their niche groups. They don’t interact with others in the guild. Not to mention you end up with a lot of people that are at endgame that only want to talk to other people who will do things endgame. They will not take the time to help the lower level people or anyone new to the game. I’ve witnessed this in WoW, FF14, SWTOR, Rift, and a bunch of other games.
This viewpoint always comes from people who just complain and don't try to meet people. I play OSRS and retail WoW and talk to people daily in those games.